On Fri, 16 Feb 2024, Scott Dorsey wrote:

>> On Fri, 16 Feb 2024, Titus G wrote:
>>>
>>> To return to my original sceptic question, I now ask D if all the septic
>>> tanks were stolen as well as well as the plumbing, toilets and piping?
>
> Oh no! It's a cryptic septic skeptic!
> --scott

Haha, good one! =)

On Thu, 15 Feb 2024 12:34:50 -0500, Cryptoengineer
<petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 2/14/2024 6:03 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> On 2/14/2024 4:46 PM, Cryptoengineer wrote:
>>> On 2/14/2024 4:48 PM, D wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, 15 Feb 2024, Titus G wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 15/02/24 00:13, Robert Carnegie wrote:
>>>>>> On 12/02/2024 19:35, D wrote:
>>>>>>> I can add some anecdotal evidence here as well. I met a Ukrainian
>>>>>>> refugee in my local bar a couple of months ago and she told me
>>>>>>> that in
>>>>>>> her home town, after the russians invaded, all the toilets where
>>>>>>> missing from the houses.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The russian soldiers removed all of them, loaded on trucks and sent
>>>>>>> back to their home villages in russia.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm shocked by the loo-ting.  :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> The reason why about 20% of Russian households do not have flush
>>>>> toilets
>>>>> is that villages do not have a common sewerage collection point nor the
>>>>> underground piping to do so.
>>>>> Stealing toilets would be illogical. Together with the great army
>>>>> discipline, it smells strongly of naive bullshit.
>>>>
>>>> I have seen toilets in houses without common sewage, so that does not
>>>> mean that you cannot use them.
>>>
>>> Indeed, I live in such a house, as do most folk out in the country.
>>> What do you think a septic tank is for?
>>>
>>> pt
>>
>> Me too.  Both my house and my office building have aerobic septic
>> systems, 1,750 gallons for my house and 2,500 gallons for my office
>> building and warehouse.  Both are a total pain in the butt and expensive
>> to maintain.  But, maintenance is much better than sewage backup in the
>> house like I had last year.
>>
>> Lynn
>
>Odd - mine is trouble free - every couple of years I get it pumped, but
>thats it.
>
>
>I'd be curious of the distribution of households without plumbed
>toilets. Probably some poor areas and on
>Indian reservations. I know that up in Fairbanks, Alaska, a lot
>of houses are 'dry', since in winter its too cold to use a septic
>system or get running water. I don't know how they manage.

Snow melts.

And they have /lots/ of snow.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

On Fri, 16 Feb 2024 11:03:39 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:

>
>
>On Fri, 16 Feb 2024, Titus G wrote:
>
>> On 16/02/24 15:48, rkshullat@rosettacondot.com wrote:
>>> Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2/14/2024 6:03 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>>> On 2/14/2024 4:46 PM, Cryptoengineer wrote:
>>>>>> On 2/14/2024 4:48 PM, D wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, 15 Feb 2024, Titus G wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 15/02/24 00:13, Robert Carnegie wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 12/02/2024 19:35, D wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> I can add some anecdotal evidence here as well. I met a Ukrainian
>>>>>>>>>> refugee in my local bar a couple of months ago and she told me
>>>>>>>>>> that in
>>>>>>>>>> her home town, after the russians invaded, all the toilets where
>>>>>>>>>> missing from the houses.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The russian soldiers removed all of them, loaded on trucks and sent
>>>>>>>>>> back to their home villages in russia.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm shocked by the loo-ting.  :-)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The reason why about 20% of Russian households do not have flush
>>>>>>>> toilets
>>>>>>>> is that villages do not have a common sewerage collection point nor the
>>>>>>>> underground piping to do so.
>>>>>>>> Stealing toilets would be illogical. Together with the great army
>>>>>>>> discipline, it smells strongly of naive bullshit.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have seen toilets in houses without common sewage, so that does not
>>>>>>> mean that you cannot use them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Indeed, I live in such a house, as do most folk out in the country.
>>>>>> What do you think a septic tank is for?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> pt
>>
>> To return to my original sceptic question, I now ask D if all the septic
>> tanks were stolen as well as well as the plumbing, toilets and piping?
>
>See previous km of conversation about different systems. I recommend
>reading about various non-water systems, and last, but not least, ask you
>to consider that there is value in the porcelain throne construction as
>well if all you ever had was a hole in the ground.

One of the Platoon Sargeants took a toilet /seat/ into the field with
him. This greatly improved the hole in the ground situation.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

On Thu, 15 Feb 2024 12:47:26 -0500, Cryptoengineer
<petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 2/15/2024 11:33 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>> On Wed, 14 Feb 2024 17:51:50 -0500, Cryptoengineer
>> <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2/14/2024 11:58 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>> On 14 Feb 2024 14:11:36 -0000, kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 14/02/2024 03:39, Mike Van Pelt wrote:
>>>>>>> In article <ewsxN.78098$Sf59.8@fx48.iad>,
>>>>>>> Scott Lurndal <slp53@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Given the current decade+ and $$$$$$ it takes to build a plant, ....
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It didn't used to take that long to build a nuclear power
>>>>>>> plant, and the laws of physics have not changed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What we have once accomplished in the past, we can
>>>>>>> aspire to do in the future.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think we don't want to have more
>>>>>> nuclear power stations built the old way.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And "the old way" probably runs up to about
>>>>>> last year.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm speaking in general, not particularly.
>>>>>> But there are conspicuous examples of "oops".
>>>>>
>>>>> Much of the problem to my mind is that these plants are being designed by
>>>>> civil engineers.... aero engineers think very differently about risks...
>>>>
>>>> Being run by MBAs may not be helping very much either.
>>>>
>>>> IIRC, the people actually doing the work at one such plant reported
>>>> having to mark the really important switches with pull-tabs because
>>>> the people-in-charge wanted to see nice clean control boards with all
>>>> switches looking exactly the same.
>>>
>>>
>>> ITYM Beer Taps????
>>
>> A "beer tap" is a "tap" used for beer. A "tap" is a valve used to get
>> a fluid out of a barrel. Or maple syrup out of a maple tree.
>>
>> The "pull-tab" meant here is the "built-in device used to open a
>> beverage can" Bing brings up. The can can be said to have been
>> "popped" when opened. The "beverage" could, of course, be beer.
>
>I was thinking of the highly differentiated and decorative tops
>placed on beer taps in a bar. I've seen photos of (I think) the
>3 Mile Island control room where they were on a number of critical
>controls to make it harder to grab the wrong one by accident.

So perhaps I misremembered the details.

Or heard a pre-mangled version of the story.

Thanks for the information.

Is this also the one where the only exception was the power switch to
the Executive Breakroom? /That/ switch mattered!

But it may have been somewhere else. Or a bit of satire that now
rattles around in my brain as if it were real.

>The term seems to be 'beer tap handle':
>https://www.bradfordsauction.com/auction-lot/7pc-lot-of-domestic-craft-import-beer-tap-handle_4804023AAA

--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

On Fri, 16 Feb 2024 16:17:40 +1100, Mad Hamish
<newsunspammelaws@iinet.unspamme.net.au> wrote:

>On Wed, 14 Feb 2024 09:10:05 -0800, Paul S Person
><psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 14 Feb 2024 10:25:59 +1100, Mad Hamish
>><newsunspammelaws@iinet.unspamme.net.au> wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 13 Feb 2024 18:40:50 -0000 (UTC), Christian Weisgerber
>>><naddy@mips.inka.de> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On 2024-02-13, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Didn't russia persuade Ukraine to hand back all nuclear weapons on their
>>>>> soil when they became free
>>>>
>>>>It's a bit more complicated, but basically Ukraine received security
>>>>assurances, including from Russia, for giving up the Soviet nuclear
>>>>weapons it had inherited on its territory.
>>>>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum
>>>
>>>and they've almost been worth the paper they're printed on...
>>
>>The one with Russia, yes. But the USA and others helping the Ukraine
>>could be viewed as honoring them.
>
>I don't know how accurate the wikipedia summation of the artilcles is
>I'd kind of hope there was more involved than "o.k. if you're invaded
>we'll give you some technology" but it really looks like there wasn't
>even a commitment to even do that
>the only commitment looks to be to raise it with the Security Council
>where any action would be vetoed by one of the countries involved in
>it (let's face it, it'd be Russia or a puppet state of theirs invading
>unles it was the USA)
>
>also from the wikipedia article
>'MacFarlane, a professor of international relations, "It gives
>signatories justification if they take action, but it does not force
>anyone to act in Ukraine."[51] In the US, neither the George H. W.
>Bush administration nor the Clinton administration was prepared to
>give a military commitment to Ukraine, and they did not believe the US
>Senate would ratify an international treaty and so the memorandum was
>adopted in more limited terms.[52] The memorandum has a requirement of
>consultation among the parties "in the event a situation arises that
>raises a question concerning the ... commitments" set out in the
>memorandum.[53] Whether or not the memorandum sets out legal
>obligations, the difficulties that Ukraine has encountered since early
>2014 may cast doubt on the credibility of future security assurances
>that are offered in exchange for nonproliferation commitments.[54]
>Regardless, the United States publicly maintains that "the Memorandum
>is not legally binding", calling it a "political commitment".'

Nonetheless, here we are (or at least were) clearly guaranteeing their
security by sending them arms and ammo.

It isn't necessary to be legally bound to do something if it is the
right thing to do.

>>
>>At least in the past. And in the future as well if the Republicans
>>ever wake up and decide to actually /do/ their jobs.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> writes:
>On Thu, 15 Feb 2024 12:34:50 -0500, Cryptoengineer
><petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:

>>>=20
>>> Me too.=A0 Both my house and my office building have aerobic septic=20
>>> systems, 1,750 gallons for my house and 2,500 gallons for my office=20
>>> building and warehouse.=A0 Both are a total pain in the butt and =
>expensive=20
>>> to maintain.=A0 But, maintenance is much better than sewage backup in =
>the=20
>>> house like I had last year.
>>>=20
>>> Lynn
>>
>>Odd - mine is trouble free - every couple of years I get it pumped, but
>>thats it.
>>
>>
>>I'd be curious of the distribution of households without plumbed
>>toilets. Probably some poor areas and on
>>Indian reservations. I know that up in Fairbanks, Alaska, a lot
>>of houses are 'dry', since in winter its too cold to use a septic
>>system or get running water. I don't know how they manage.
>
>Snow melts.
>
>And they have /lots/ of snow.

IIRC, in the coastal southern regions (e.g. Sitka), they catch
and keep rainwater for fresh water purposes. They get somewhere
around 83" of rain annually.

Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2/15/2024 9:48 PM, rkshullat@rosettacondot.com wrote:
>> Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 2/14/2024 6:03 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>> On 2/14/2024 4:46 PM, Cryptoengineer wrote:
>>>>> On 2/14/2024 4:48 PM, D wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, 15 Feb 2024, Titus G wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 15/02/24 00:13, Robert Carnegie wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 12/02/2024 19:35, D wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I can add some anecdotal evidence here as well. I met a Ukrainian
>>>>>>>>> refugee in my local bar a couple of months ago and she told me
>>>>>>>>> that in
>>>>>>>>> her home town, after the russians invaded, all the toilets where
>>>>>>>>> missing from the houses.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The russian soldiers removed all of them, loaded on trucks and sent
>>>>>>>>> back to their home villages in russia.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm shocked by the loo-ting.  :-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The reason why about 20% of Russian households do not have flush
>>>>>>> toilets
>>>>>>> is that villages do not have a common sewerage collection point nor the
>>>>>>> underground piping to do so.
>>>>>>> Stealing toilets would be illogical. Together with the great army
>>>>>>> discipline, it smells strongly of naive bullshit.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have seen toilets in houses without common sewage, so that does not
>>>>>> mean that you cannot use them.
>>>>>
>>>>> Indeed, I live in such a house, as do most folk out in the country.
>>>>> What do you think a septic tank is for?
>>>>>
>>>>> pt
>>>>
>>>> Me too.  Both my house and my office building have aerobic septic
>>>> systems, 1,750 gallons for my house and 2,500 gallons for my office
>>>> building and warehouse.  Both are a total pain in the butt and expensive
>>>> to maintain.  But, maintenance is much better than sewage backup in the
>>>> house like I had last year.
>>>>
>>>> Lynn
>>>
>>> Odd - mine is trouble free - every couple of years I get it pumped, but
>>> thats it.
>>
>> Anaerobic vs aerobic? We have the old-school tank and leach field anaerobic
>> system (house was built in 1980). We've had it pumped twice in about 20 years,
>> no other maintenance. The aerobic systems with the sprinklers need a
>> maintenance contract and inspection at least every six months (not to mention
>> costing at least $20k as a replacement).
>
> I think its aerobic (that's how little attention I have to pay to it).
> It is entirely passive - no pumps, and an underground leach field.

All of the aerobic systems I've seen in our area have a pump tank for
treated (chlorine tablets or bleach) effluent and sprinklers to spray it over
the yard...those are the ones that Lynn is complaining about.
Anaerobic systems are passive...no chlorine, pumps or sprinklers. That's what
we have (and dread having to replace since you can't install new anaerobic
in our area).

Robert
--
Robert K. Shull Email: rkshull at rosettacon dot com

On 2/16/2024 11:37 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Feb 2024 12:34:50 -0500, Cryptoengineer
> <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2/14/2024 6:03 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>> On 2/14/2024 4:46 PM, Cryptoengineer wrote:
>>>> On 2/14/2024 4:48 PM, D wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, 15 Feb 2024, Titus G wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 15/02/24 00:13, Robert Carnegie wrote:
>>>>>>> On 12/02/2024 19:35, D wrote:
>>>>>>>> I can add some anecdotal evidence here as well. I met a Ukrainian
>>>>>>>> refugee in my local bar a couple of months ago and she told me
>>>>>>>> that in
>>>>>>>> her home town, after the russians invaded, all the toilets where
>>>>>>>> missing from the houses.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The russian soldiers removed all of them, loaded on trucks and sent
>>>>>>>> back to their home villages in russia.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm shocked by the loo-ting.  :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The reason why about 20% of Russian households do not have flush
>>>>>> toilets
>>>>>> is that villages do not have a common sewerage collection point nor the
>>>>>> underground piping to do so.
>>>>>> Stealing toilets would be illogical. Together with the great army
>>>>>> discipline, it smells strongly of naive bullshit.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have seen toilets in houses without common sewage, so that does not
>>>>> mean that you cannot use them.
>>>>
>>>> Indeed, I live in such a house, as do most folk out in the country.
>>>> What do you think a septic tank is for?
>>>>
>>>> pt
>>>
>>> Me too.  Both my house and my office building have aerobic septic
>>> systems, 1,750 gallons for my house and 2,500 gallons for my office
>>> building and warehouse.  Both are a total pain in the butt and expensive
>>> to maintain.  But, maintenance is much better than sewage backup in the
>>> house like I had last year.
>>>
>>> Lynn
>>
>> Odd - mine is trouble free - every couple of years I get it pumped, but
>> thats it.
>>
>>
>> I'd be curious of the distribution of households without plumbed
>> toilets. Probably some poor areas and on
>> Indian reservations. I know that up in Fairbanks, Alaska, a lot
>> of houses are 'dry', since in winter its too cold to use a septic
>> system or get running water. I don't know how they manage.
>
> Snow melts.
>
> And they have /lots/ of snow.

Not always practical.

The term they use is 'dry cabin'. They're much cheaper than one
with running water.

Here's an article on them, though it doesn't go into much detail
on the outhouses.

https://www.realtor.com/news/trends/how-to-live-in-a-dry-cabin-and-why-you-want-to/

pt

On 16/02/24 23:03, D wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Feb 2024, Titus G wrote:
>> On 16/02/24 15:48, rkshullat@rosettacondot.com wrote:
>>> Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2/14/2024 6:03 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>>> On 2/14/2024 4:46 PM, Cryptoengineer wrote:
>>>>>> On 2/14/2024 4:48 PM, D wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, 15 Feb 2024, Titus G wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 15/02/24 00:13, Robert Carnegie wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 12/02/2024 19:35, D wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> I can add some anecdotal evidence here as well. I met a Ukrainian
>>>>>>>>>> refugee in my local bar a couple of months ago and she told me
>>>>>>>>>> that in
>>>>>>>>>> her home town, after the russians invaded, all the toilets where
>>>>>>>>>> missing from the houses.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The russian soldiers removed all of them, loaded on trucks and
>>>>>>>>>> sent
>>>>>>>>>> back to their home villages in russia.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm shocked by the loo-ting.  :-)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The reason why about 20% of Russian households do not have flush
>>>>>>>> toilets
>>>>>>>> is that villages do not have a common sewerage collection point
>>>>>>>> nor the
>>>>>>>> underground piping to do so.
>>>>>>>> Stealing toilets would be illogical. Together with the great army
>>>>>>>> discipline, it smells strongly of naive bullshit.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have seen toilets in houses without common sewage, so that does
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>> mean that you cannot use them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Indeed, I live in such a house, as do most folk out in the country.
>>>>>> What do you think a septic tank is for?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> pt
>>
>> To return to my original sceptic question, I now ask D if all the septic
>> tanks were stolen as well as well as the plumbing, toilets and piping?
>
> See previous km of conversation about different systems. I recommend
> reading about various non-water systems, and last, but not least, ask
> you to consider that there is value in the porcelain throne construction
> as well if all you ever had was a hole in the ground.

Your original claim was that every toilet in the village was stolen and
trucked away. Do you really believe that?

>
> Last, but not least, we must consider the scenario where said loot could
> be sold, as well as a general lack of knowledge about how the object in
> question is installed and part of a larger system.

Your original claim was that every toilet in the village was stolen and
trucked away. Do you really believe that?

> I think I'll finish here, since your questions to me, seem very tedious.

The intention was to highlight your absurbities.

> If you do want to believe the russian soldiers are knights in shining
> armour, coming from a a land of plenty and high technology, please go
> ahead.

Your thought process is clearly suspect. Is your real name Shaun Wilson?
I do not believe your idiotic report that every toilet in the village
was stolen and trucked away. How does that translate into your knights
in shining armour crap?

Jibini's heart would be broken if he knew he was missing this turkey.

>>>>>
>>>>> Me too.  Both my house and my office building have aerobic septic
>>>>> systems, 1,750 gallons for my house and 2,500 gallons for my office
>>>>> building and warehouse.  Both are a total pain in the butt and
>>>>> expensive
>>>>> to maintain.  But, maintenance is much better than sewage backup in
>>>>> the
>>>>> house like I had last year.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lynn
>>
>> Even if it was only a small village, with, say 1,000 properties, how
>> many army trucks would be needed to transport these tanks with
>> associated piping, plumbing and toilets?
>>
>>>>
>>>> Odd - mine is trouble free - every couple of years I get it pumped, but
>>>> thats it.
>>>
>>> Anaerobic vs aerobic? We have the old-school tank and leach field
>>> anaerobic
>>> system (house was built in 1980). We've had it pumped twice in about
>>> 20 years,
>>> no other maintenance. The aerobic systems with the sprinklers need a
>>> maintenance contract and inspection at least every six months (not to
>>> mention
>>> costing at least $20k as a replacement).
>>>
>>>     Robert
>>
>> Obviously the best economic solution would be to install a stolen flush
>> toilet over the long drop and spend the savings on vodka.
>>

On 17/02/24 04:51, Cryptoengineer wrote:
> On 2/15/2024 11:26 PM, Titus G wrote:
>> On 16/02/24 15:48, rkshullat@rosettacondot.com wrote:
>>> Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2/14/2024 6:03 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>>> On 2/14/2024 4:46 PM, Cryptoengineer wrote:
>>>>>> On 2/14/2024 4:48 PM, D wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, 15 Feb 2024, Titus G wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 15/02/24 00:13, Robert Carnegie wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 12/02/2024 19:35, D wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> I can add some anecdotal evidence here as well. I met a Ukrainian
>>>>>>>>>> refugee in my local bar a couple of months ago and she told me
>>>>>>>>>> that in
>>>>>>>>>> her home town, after the russians invaded, all the toilets where
>>>>>>>>>> missing from the houses.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The russian soldiers removed all of them, loaded on trucks and
>>>>>>>>>> sent
>>>>>>>>>> back to their home villages in russia.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm shocked by the loo-ting.  :-)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The reason why about 20% of Russian households do not have flush
>>>>>>>> toilets
>>>>>>>> is that villages do not have a common sewerage collection point
>>>>>>>> nor the
>>>>>>>> underground piping to do so.
>>>>>>>> Stealing toilets would be illogical. Together with the great army
>>>>>>>> discipline, it smells strongly of naive bullshit.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have seen toilets in houses without common sewage, so that does
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>> mean that you cannot use them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Indeed, I live in such a house, as do most folk out in the country.
>>>>>> What do you think a septic tank is for?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> pt
>>
>> To return to my original sceptic question, I now ask D if all the septic
>> tanks were stolen as well as well as the plumbing, toilets and piping?
>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Me too.  Both my house and my office building have aerobic septic
>>>>> systems, 1,750 gallons for my house and 2,500 gallons for my office
>>>>> building and warehouse.  Both are a total pain in the butt and
>>>>> expensive
>>>>> to maintain.  But, maintenance is much better than sewage backup in
>>>>> the
>>>>> house like I had last year.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lynn
>>
>> Even if it was only a small village, with, say 1,000 properties, how
>> many army trucks would be needed to transport these tanks with
>> associated piping, plumbing and toilets?
>>
>>>>
>>>> Odd - mine is trouble free - every couple of years I get it pumped, but
>>>> thats it.
>>>
>>> Anaerobic vs aerobic? We have the old-school tank and leach field
>>> anaerobic
>>> system (house was built in 1980). We've had it pumped twice in about
>>> 20 years,
>>> no other maintenance. The aerobic systems with the sprinklers need a
>>> maintenance contract and inspection at least every six months (not to
>>> mention
>>> costing at least $20k as a replacement).
>>>
>>>      Robert
>>
>> Obviously the best economic solution would be to install a stolen flush
>> toilet over the long drop and spend the savings on vodka.
>
> This video shows Russian troops loading a toilet into a car:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHeoe7jgDeo
>

The video soon transitions to slapstick when the "soldier" trips
breaking the toilet. Do you really think that a video of three people
loading one toilet into a car boot is sufficient documentation to back
up the claim that every toilet from a village together with plumbing and
piping was loaded into army trucks and removed? I don't.
I didn't watch the whole video but was interested to hear that 40% of
Ukrainian households do not have a flush toilet compared to Russia's
20%. Amazing.

On 2/14/2024 4:30 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
> Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> This is true; however, I see no reason to believe that the United States
>>> is not capable of providing adequate security to shipments of nuclear
>>> materials for its power plants.
>>
>> But what if the U.S. decides, for radiological
>> safety, to build its nuclear power plants
>> in Canada?
>
> I think governments are more worried (as they should be) about nuclear
> proliferation than about radiological safety. The Soviet Union went through
> a big debate about whether they should build nuclear plants in other Warsaw
> Pact nations because they were worried about security of fissile materials.
>
> The US probably trusts Canada more than the Soviet Union trusted Poland
> and East Germany... although the US probably trusts Mexico even less
> unfortunately.
>
> Personally, I would rather see Canadians building nuclear power plants in
> the US.... they have done a better job on the whole of it than we have.
>
>> And what about the rest of the world's need
>> for energy production?
>
> They can eat Brioche!
> --scott

The Canadian CANDU power plants are heavy water with their own sets of
limitations and issues. All of the nuclear power plants built in the
last 40 years in the USA run at over 90% capacity factor but with
horrible cost overruns due to the complexity of building the dadgum
domes (generally 350 ??? feet tall with 3/4 inch rebar on 6 inch centers
with 3.5 feet wall thickness for a 150 ??? foot diameter). I don't
think that the Canadian Nuclear Power Plants have domes like we build
them in the USA. The USA domes are calculated to take a 707 impact at
600+ ??? knots.

I was present at the start of the first dome test for Comanche Peak 1 in
Texas. Huge sections of the concrete dome were falling off and exposing
voids in the concrete that you could put a person into when we
pressurized the dome to 65 ??? psig. Been too many years since 1983, I
cannot remember the details anymore.

Lynn

On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 9:24:14 PM UTC-7, Titus G wrote:

> Your original claim was that every toilet in the village was stolen and
> trucked away. Do you really believe that?

Why not? If it was a large city, or if the claim was that this happened
to a great many villages, that would be hard to believe. But for something
co-ordinated to happen once, in a single village (maybe not all the houses
had flush toilets to begin with) is not that much of a stretch.

John Savard

On Sat, 17 Feb 2024 00:06:32 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc
<jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:

>On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 9:24:14?PM UTC-7, Titus G wrote:
>
>> Your original claim was that every toilet in the village was stolen and
>> trucked away. Do you really believe that?
>
>Why not? If it was a large city, or if the claim was that this happened
>to a great many villages, that would be hard to believe. But for something
>co-ordinated to happen once, in a single village (maybe not all the houses
>had flush toilets to begin with) is not that much of a stretch.

You don't understand.

The story is demeaning the Glorious Soldiers of Holy Mother Russia,
whose Divinely Appointed Destiny is to Rule the World under Czar
Putin.

Thus, it cannot possibly be allowed.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

On Sat, 17 Feb 2024 17:24:34 +1300, Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:

>On 17/02/24 04:51, Cryptoengineer wrote:
>> On 2/15/2024 11:26 PM, Titus G wrote:
>>> On 16/02/24 15:48, rkshullat@rosettacondot.com wrote:
>>>> Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 2/14/2024 6:03 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>>>> On 2/14/2024 4:46 PM, Cryptoengineer wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2/14/2024 4:48 PM, D wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, 15 Feb 2024, Titus G wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 15/02/24 00:13, Robert Carnegie wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 12/02/2024 19:35, D wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> I can add some anecdotal evidence here as well. I met a Ukrainian
>>>>>>>>>>> refugee in my local bar a couple of months ago and she told me
>>>>>>>>>>> that in
>>>>>>>>>>> her home town, after the russians invaded, all the toilets where
>>>>>>>>>>> missing from the houses.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The russian soldiers removed all of them, loaded on trucks and
>>>>>>>>>>> sent
>>>>>>>>>>> back to their home villages in russia.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'm shocked by the loo-ting.  :-)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The reason why about 20% of Russian households do not have flush
>>>>>>>>> toilets
>>>>>>>>> is that villages do not have a common sewerage collection point
>>>>>>>>> nor the
>>>>>>>>> underground piping to do so.
>>>>>>>>> Stealing toilets would be illogical. Together with the great army
>>>>>>>>> discipline, it smells strongly of naive bullshit.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have seen toilets in houses without common sewage, so that does
>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>> mean that you cannot use them.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Indeed, I live in such a house, as do most folk out in the country.
>>>>>>> What do you think a septic tank is for?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> pt
>>>
>>> To return to my original sceptic question, I now ask D if all the septic
>>> tanks were stolen as well as well as the plumbing, toilets and piping?
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Me too.  Both my house and my office building have aerobic septic
>>>>>> systems, 1,750 gallons for my house and 2,500 gallons for my office
>>>>>> building and warehouse.  Both are a total pain in the butt and
>>>>>> expensive
>>>>>> to maintain.  But, maintenance is much better than sewage backup in
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> house like I had last year.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lynn
>>>
>>> Even if it was only a small village, with, say 1,000 properties, how
>>> many army trucks would be needed to transport these tanks with
>>> associated piping, plumbing and toilets?
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Odd - mine is trouble free - every couple of years I get it pumped, but
>>>>> thats it.
>>>>
>>>> Anaerobic vs aerobic? We have the old-school tank and leach field
>>>> anaerobic
>>>> system (house was built in 1980). We've had it pumped twice in about
>>>> 20 years,
>>>> no other maintenance. The aerobic systems with the sprinklers need a
>>>> maintenance contract and inspection at least every six months (not to
>>>> mention
>>>> costing at least $20k as a replacement).
>>>>
>>>>      Robert
>>>
>>> Obviously the best economic solution would be to install a stolen flush
>>> toilet over the long drop and spend the savings on vodka.
>>
>> This video shows Russian troops loading a toilet into a car:
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHeoe7jgDeo
>>
>
>The video soon transitions to slapstick when the "soldier" trips
>breaking the toilet. Do you really think that a video of three people
>loading one toilet into a car boot is sufficient documentation to back
>up the claim that every toilet from a village together with plumbing and
>piping was loaded into army trucks and removed? I don't.
>I didn't watch the whole video but was interested to hear that 40% of
>Ukrainian households do not have a flush toilet compared to Russia's
>20%. Amazing.

IIRC, the "plumbing and piping" theory was added in response to a
question.

The /original/ story involved just the toilets.

And, yes, hard as it is to believe, armies engaging in widespread
looting has been going on ... for millenia.

Indeed, in many cases the enthusiasm and numbers of the soldiers
depended entirely on their expectation of what they could get by
looting the enemy.

And to consider "Russian Army" to be anything but an oxymoron at this
point is ludicrous.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

On Fri, 16 Feb 2024 17:40:10 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

>Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> writes:
>>On Thu, 15 Feb 2024 12:34:50 -0500, Cryptoengineer
>><petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>>=20
>>>> Me too.=A0 Both my house and my office building have aerobic septic=20
>>>> systems, 1,750 gallons for my house and 2,500 gallons for my office=20
>>>> building and warehouse.=A0 Both are a total pain in the butt and >>expensive=20
>>>> to maintain.=A0 But, maintenance is much better than sewage backup in >>the=20
>>>> house like I had last year.
>>>>=20
>>>> Lynn
>>>
>>>Odd - mine is trouble free - every couple of years I get it pumped, but
>>>thats it.
>>>
>>>
>>>I'd be curious of the distribution of households without plumbed
>>>toilets. Probably some poor areas and on
>>>Indian reservations. I know that up in Fairbanks, Alaska, a lot
>>>of houses are 'dry', since in winter its too cold to use a septic
>>>system or get running water. I don't know how they manage.
>>
>>Snow melts.
>>
>>And they have /lots/ of snow.
>
>IIRC, in the coastal southern regions (e.g. Sitka), they catch
>and keep rainwater for fresh water purposes. They get somewhere
>around 83" of rain annually.

Actually, I spent one summer with my maternal grandparents in Juneau,
and I don't recall any problems with water. We had the usual plumbing.
Winter may have been different, though.

Everything cost 10% more than marked because of the shipping expense
from the 48 contiguous States (ie, from Seattle). And I /think/ that
was the first time the plane I rode in was a passenger jet (perhaps a
707 <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_707> -- but certainly a
Boeing, Boeing was /the/ Seattle economy back then [1]).

[1] It was during one of their downturns/local recessions that some
wag put up a billboard with the message "Will the Last Person Leaving
SEATTLE — Turn Out the Lights"
<https://www.historylink.org/File/1287>).
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

On 2/16/2024 11:24 PM, Titus G wrote:
> On 17/02/24 04:51, Cryptoengineer wrote:
>> On 2/15/2024 11:26 PM, Titus G wrote:
>>> On 16/02/24 15:48, rkshullat@rosettacondot.com wrote:
>>>> Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 2/14/2024 6:03 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>>>> On 2/14/2024 4:46 PM, Cryptoengineer wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2/14/2024 4:48 PM, D wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, 15 Feb 2024, Titus G wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 15/02/24 00:13, Robert Carnegie wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 12/02/2024 19:35, D wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> I can add some anecdotal evidence here as well. I met a Ukrainian
>>>>>>>>>>> refugee in my local bar a couple of months ago and she told me
>>>>>>>>>>> that in
>>>>>>>>>>> her home town, after the russians invaded, all the toilets where
>>>>>>>>>>> missing from the houses.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The russian soldiers removed all of them, loaded on trucks and
>>>>>>>>>>> sent
>>>>>>>>>>> back to their home villages in russia.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'm shocked by the loo-ting.  :-)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The reason why about 20% of Russian households do not have flush
>>>>>>>>> toilets
>>>>>>>>> is that villages do not have a common sewerage collection point
>>>>>>>>> nor the
>>>>>>>>> underground piping to do so.
>>>>>>>>> Stealing toilets would be illogical. Together with the great army
>>>>>>>>> discipline, it smells strongly of naive bullshit.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have seen toilets in houses without common sewage, so that does
>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>> mean that you cannot use them.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Indeed, I live in such a house, as do most folk out in the country.
>>>>>>> What do you think a septic tank is for?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> pt
>>>
>>> To return to my original sceptic question, I now ask D if all the septic
>>> tanks were stolen as well as well as the plumbing, toilets and piping?
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Me too.  Both my house and my office building have aerobic septic
>>>>>> systems, 1,750 gallons for my house and 2,500 gallons for my office
>>>>>> building and warehouse.  Both are a total pain in the butt and
>>>>>> expensive
>>>>>> to maintain.  But, maintenance is much better than sewage backup in
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> house like I had last year.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lynn
>>>
>>> Even if it was only a small village, with, say 1,000 properties, how
>>> many army trucks would be needed to transport these tanks with
>>> associated piping, plumbing and toilets?
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Odd - mine is trouble free - every couple of years I get it pumped, but
>>>>> thats it.
>>>>
>>>> Anaerobic vs aerobic? We have the old-school tank and leach field
>>>> anaerobic
>>>> system (house was built in 1980). We've had it pumped twice in about
>>>> 20 years,
>>>> no other maintenance. The aerobic systems with the sprinklers need a
>>>> maintenance contract and inspection at least every six months (not to
>>>> mention
>>>> costing at least $20k as a replacement).
>>>>
>>>>      Robert
>>>
>>> Obviously the best economic solution would be to install a stolen flush
>>> toilet over the long drop and spend the savings on vodka.
>>
>> This video shows Russian troops loading a toilet into a car:
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHeoe7jgDeo
>>
>
> The video soon transitions to slapstick when the "soldier" trips
> breaking the toilet. Do you really think that a video of three people
> loading one toilet into a car boot is sufficient documentation to back
> up the claim that every toilet from a village together with plumbing and
> piping was loaded into army trucks and removed? I don't.
> I didn't watch the whole video but was interested to hear that 40% of
> Ukrainian households do not have a flush toilet compared to Russia's
> 20%. Amazing.

No. I don't have a dog in your (very silly) fight. I'm just
demonstrating that bizarre as it seems, Russian toilet theft
is a real thing.

Even stealing one toilet is amusing, and says something about the
Russian standard of living.

Where the 40% figure comes from, I have no idea. Here's the WHO
data:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_proportion_of_the_population_using_improved_sanitation_facilities#Countries

It lists Russia at 89%, and Ukraine at 98% having flush toilets.

It has the US at 100%, though I've seen figures for 0.1% to 0.5% of
US households lacking them. The table lists only whole percentages.

pt

On 2/17/2024 2:06 AM, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 9:24:14 PM UTC-7, Titus G wrote:
>
>> Your original claim was that every toilet in the village was stolen and
>> trucked away. Do you really believe that?
>
> Why not? If it was a large city, or if the claim was that this happened
> to a great many villages, that would be hard to believe. But for something
> co-ordinated to happen once, in a single village (maybe not all the houses
> had flush toilets to begin with) is not that much of a stretch.
>
> John Savard

Many reports of Russian looting say that houses were stripped bare so I
can believe it. Videos of military vehicles being loaded up, loads of
stuff shipped back to Russia, being sold in Belarus.

In article <uqpcd8$8tnu$1@dont-email.me>, Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:
>Your original claim was that every toilet in the village was stolen and
>trucked away. Do you really believe that?

Not too hard to believe, especially if the village has been pretty heavily
bombed to the point where there were only a few intact toilets left.

Certainly I have seen that kind of thing happening in wars before, and the
Russians are known experts. After WWII, they jacked up the Zeiss plant and
took it back to Moscow intact. They jacked up two Agfa plants and took
them back to the Soviet Union which is how they got Sovcolor film. Printing
plants, bearing plants, airplane plants all got packed up and shipped.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On Tue, 13 Feb 2024 11:59:29 -0000 (UTC), Quadibloc
<quadibloc@servername.invalid> wrote:

>On Thu, 08 Feb 2024 13:07:37 -0500, Cryptoengineer wrote:
>
>From that point of view, it's easy to see why some would prefer
>letting Russia or China conquer the world. There, it would only
>be a thousand years or so to recover.
>
>John Savard

Somehow I don't see Xi Jinping in the role of Hari Seldon founding two
foundations.....

On Wed, 14 Feb 2024 10:25:59 +1100, Mad Hamish
<newsunspammelaws@iinet.unspamme.net.au> wrote:

>On Tue, 13 Feb 2024 18:40:50 -0000 (UTC), Christian Weisgerber
><naddy@mips.inka.de> wrote:
>
>>On 2024-02-13, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Didn't russia persuade Ukraine to hand back all nuclear weapons on their
>>> soil when they became free
>>
>>It's a bit more complicated, but basically Ukraine received security
>>assurances, including from Russia, for giving up the Soviet nuclear
>>weapons it had inherited on its territory.
>>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum
>
>and they've almost been worth the paper they're printed on...

Indeed - almost as worthwhile of those 4 1/2 " square pieces of paper
on rolls from the Scott Paper Company.

On 14 Feb 2024 03:40:44 -0000, kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

>It's alarming enough that the US government has nuclear weapons. I am much
>more worried about Google, Wells Fargo, AT&T, or MS13 having them. The
>more transuranics are out there, the greater that chance of them getting
>diverted. It's not difficult to make a bomb once you have either
>uranium that has been enriched to weapons grade, or low grade plutonium
>alloy which can be enriched with a comparatively simple chemical process.

One of the key reasons why all but two of America's nuclear weapons
have been plutonium rather than U-235 based is that plutonium is far
easier to separate from uranium than separating U-235 from the more
common U-238.

However quite apart from its radioactivity, plutonium is one of the
most toxic heavy metals in existence and that's what makes its
by-products (in your typical nuclear reaction only a small amount of
the fissile elements actually get split) far less of a problem than
one might expected - non fissioned plutonium is plenty toxic on its
own.

On 2/17/2024 1:08 PM, Jay E. Morris wrote:
> On 2/17/2024 2:06 AM, Quadibloc wrote:
>> On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 9:24:14 PM UTC-7, Titus G wrote:
>>
>>> Your original claim was that every toilet in the village was stolen and
>>> trucked away. Do you really believe that?
>>
>> Why not? If it was a large city, or if the claim was that this happened
>> to a great many villages, that would be hard to believe. But for
>> something
>> co-ordinated to happen once, in a single village (maybe not all the
>> houses
>> had flush toilets to begin with) is not that much of a stretch.
>>
>> John Savard
>
> Many reports of Russian looting say that houses were stripped bare so I
> can believe it. Videos of military vehicles being loaded up, loads of
> stuff shipped back to Russia, being sold in Belarus.

The other item that seems very popular is washing machines.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_UUd9yroUI

pt

On Wed, 14 Feb 2024 10:40:21 +0000, Robert Carnegie
<rja.carnegie@gmail.com> wrote:

>As worded, I'd expect that /exclusive/
>access to an /outhouse/ with plumbing
>counts. Though now I'm anxious about
>washing of hands.

What do you mean "exclusive"?

I assume you mean "exclusive to inhabitants of the home" (in other
words in my case to the two people who live there")

As opposed to public buildings many of which have offices which are
largely restricted to those who work there vs the general public.

On 17/02/2024 20:18, The Horny Goat wrote:
> On Wed, 14 Feb 2024 10:40:21 +0000, Robert Carnegie
> <rja.carnegie@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> As worded, I'd expect that /exclusive/
>> access to an /outhouse/ with plumbing
>> counts. Though now I'm anxious about
>> washing of hands.
>
> What do you mean "exclusive"?
>
> I assume you mean "exclusive to inhabitants of the home" (in other
> words in my case to the two people who live there")
>
> As opposed to public buildings many of which have offices which are
> largely restricted to those who work there vs the general public.

It is about households which do/don't
"have" a (water) flush toilet.

<https://allgeographynow.wordpress.com/2016/02/24/tenement-life-in-glasgow/>
says that cheap housing in Glasgow, Scotland,
got indoor restrooms by law, but shared,
due to legislation in 1892. Before that,
the provision might be outdoor and shared.
Of course, better housing... was better.

Some villages in Africa and rural England
are only now getting sanitation... for one
person at a time to use. I think that
households there do not "have" a flush toilet
if it's now exclusively theirs.

But what if it's indoors - but not in your
individual apartment? As in Glasgow
after 1892.

My point is to understand what a statistic
actus'lh is about.

On 15/02/2024 17:08, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> writes:
>
>>
>> The "pull-tab" meant here is the "built-in device used to open a
>> beverage can" Bing brings up. The can can be said to have been
>> "popped" when opened. The "beverage" could, of course, be beer.
>
> I actually found a spent beer tab at the local county park
> yesterday. First one I've seen in decades.

A modern aluminium can is designed to
keep the pop-out part which opens, attached
to the can - unless you work quite hard to
detach it, I suppose.

Quite large animals including livestock
have been lethally injured by swallowing
the old style, throwaway built-in opener,
so it's better not to have that kind.
And it makes recycling easier.