It's the post-lockdown apocalyps of public behavior.

First there were reports of 'Barbie' audiences screaming at each other and being removed from the theatre.
And now it's an 80-year old conductor / Bach philosopher beating up a singer young enough to be his grandson.
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Subject: Re: OT - 2023 Climate issues
From: Andy Evans <performanceandmedia@gmail.com>
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On Thursday, 7 September 2023 at 22:25:33 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:

> Although the concept of human-caused global warming goes apparently goes =
back to 1896, it was not necessarily viewed as dangerous or threatening. It=
wasn't until the 1980s that serious climate activism was even a thing, so =
the possibility of a response to warming 60 years ago is nil.

I've been saying or AGES that the standard economic model based on constant=
growth will NOT be a solution for global warming. You didn't believe a wor=
d I said, told me I was ignorant of economics, misunderstood the growth mod=
el, blah blah.=20

Now you have heard it from Deutche Bank you might start believing it, but I=
doubt that you have the capacity to change and adapt your thinking. You ne=
ver have up to now. Not going to happen, is it......

"In Deutsche Bank's outline of economic history over the last few centuries=
, growth has been the tide that lifts all boats, a =E2=80=9Cgame changer fo=
r health and living standards. But if climate change makes a sustainable pa=
th forward for growth untenable, then our modern societal organization arou=
nd this economic policy could be upended.

=E2=80=9CWe think we will soon enter a stage where there will be a realizat=
ion of the immense economic and personal trade-offs we will collectively ha=
ve to make in order to hit domestic and globally agreed climate targets,=E2=
=80=9D the firm writes. =E2=80=9CSuch sacrifices may shock citizens and be =
difficult to administer in democracies.=E2=80=9D

Deutsche Bank adds that, =E2=80=9CThe problem for the environmental lobby i=
s that a world without economic growth may create a damaging backlash again=
st such climate policies. Nevertheless, the problem with the status quo is =
that the irreversible damage to our planet will increase.=E2=80=9D
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From: Mandryka <howie.stone01@gmail.com>
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Bach's Art of Fugue.=20

I made this list of quartets of string instruments who had recorded it in =
ay 2022, I think there are more now.

Bernini
Delian
Delm=C3=A9
Emerson
Fretwork
Italiano (members)
Julliard
Keller
K=C3=B6lner violen consort
Les Voix Humaines
Modern
Musicarius
Phantasm
Portland
Quartetto Classico
Roth
Sit Fast
Soundiva
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Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2023 19:22:36 -0700
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Subject: Re: DGG Avant Garde series reissued ... VERY cheaply
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
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On Sun, 08 Oct 2023 19:04:41 -0700, Pluted Pup wrote:

> On Sat, 07 Oct 2023 22:02:42 -0700, Mr. Mike wrote:
>
> > https://www.amazon.com/Avant-Garde-Various-Artists/dp/B0C64B8P88
> >
> > Is the price on this serious? Relatively cheap at Amazon.ca.
> >
> > It is a box set with *21 CDs*.
> >
> > The heading for this offering seems totally wrong...

You could have said what you were talking about
instead of Dan Koren'ing the link (requiring a
click on a dynamicly changing link then guessing your
reference).

I thought you were talking about the $30 new copy linked
to Amazon Japan.

I now guess you are talking about the $13.98 price for
a new copy backordered from amazon.com. That is cheap and
thanks for the tip!

But be prepared to return the Love and Death - Between
Here & Lost CD if that is what shows up and this is
not the sort of music you like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABAhqhtKnvw

To me, for rock music that sounds a little too "avant guard"!

>
> If you like, go ahead and order it, knowing you'll
> have to return it when you get the wrong thing sent
> from Japan.
>
> It is indeed amazon's fault when they misidentify
> products, as amazon makes an effort to keep it's
> customers in the dark about what they ordering.
>
> Amazon prefers to seen as welcoming returns rather
> list catalog numbers or UPCs, and have the
> decency to have a proper search engine.

.
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From: mccomb@medieval.org (Todd M. McComb)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Subject: Re: WAYLTL - November 2023
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2023 20:44:40 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Medieval Music & Arts Foundation
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On Sunday, August 27, 2023 at 12:40:08 PM UTC+1, Robert Marshall wrote:
> Not seen any coverage here of this, the notoriously aggressive John Eliot
> Gardiner punching a soloist at a festival in France and then
> as a result pulling out of conducting the Trojans at the Proms
>
> https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/aug/24/john-eliot-gardiner-pulls-out-of-bbc-proms-after-reports-he-punched-bass-singer
>
> Robert
> --
> Robert Marshall twitter: @rajm

He has previous form for physical violence - ask the LSO trumpeter! Nothing to do with heat or medication. He withdrew from all subsequent performances of the tour.
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From: "Chris J." <christophjohansen@mailservice.invalid>
Subject: Re: WAYLTL - September 2023
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
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On 7 Sep 2023 Gerard wrote:

> D'Alay: The Dresden Concertos Reale Concerto, with Daniele Fanfoni and
> Luca Fanfoni (on Dynamic)
>
> A contemporary of Vivaldi, his violin concertos sometimes almost
> out-Vivaldis Vivaldi.

I hope they are more interesting than the Manfredini Op. 3 concertos
(Rémy, on CPO) I picked up for next to nothing at a thrift shop the other
day.

I'm currently listening to a lot of Telemann recordings, mainly vocal
works. Telemann left more than 3000 compositions, of which only a fraction
has been recorded. By no means everything is interesting. Not because he
couldn't write complex and excellent music, but because he had to or
wanted to please his clients (who paid him well) and audiences. Bach owed
his Leipzig job (he was 3rd choice in 1723) to Telemann (1st choice), who
preferred to continue his lucrative activities in Hamburg, and to
Graupner, who was held to his (improved) contract by his Darmstadt patron.

Chris
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From: "Ed Presson" <pep38@comcast.net>
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Subject: Re: Apple to acquire BIS label
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2023 15:11:27 -0700
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"MartinSch��n" wrote in message news:kmrl70F694oU1@mid.individual.net...

Den 2023-09-17 skrev Joe <joe@joemarkley.com>:
>snip<
Picking a nit: The name of the place is �.kersberga. It is located some
30 km north-east of Stockholm.

This thread made me realise I have no idea about BIS' reputation outside
Sweden. Some of you seem to care but how is its produce regarded?

/Martin

I hold BIS SACDs and CDs in high regard. The performances are
generally at least very good and often excellent. The only criticism
that I am aware of is that the sound engineers were producing
recordings that sounded all the same (very good), but did not capture
the character of the venues in which they were recorded.

I have not heard a wide sample of recent recordings, so I
don't know if this opinion has merit these days.

Ed Presson

.
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Subject: Re: DGG Avant Garde series reissued ... VERY cheaply
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On Sun, 08 Oct 2023 19:22:36 -0700, Pluted Pup wrote:

> On Sun, 08 Oct 2023 19:04:41 -0700, Pluted Pup wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 07 Oct 2023 22:02:42 -0700, Mr. Mike wrote:
> >
> > > https://www.amazon.com/Avant-Garde-Various-Artists/dp/B0C64B8P88
> > >
> > > Is the price on this serious? Relatively cheap at Amazon.ca.
> > >
> > > It is a box set with *21 CDs*.
> > >
> > > The heading for this offering seems totally wrong...
>
> You could have said what you were talking about
> instead of Dan Koren'ing the link (requiring a
> click on a dynamicly changing link then guessing your
> reference).
>
> I thought you were talking about the $30 new copy linked
> to Amazon Japan.
>
> I now guess you are talking about the $13.98 price for
> a new copy backordered from amazon.com. That is cheap and
> thanks for the tip!
>
> But be prepared to return the Love and Death - Between
> Here & Lost CD if that is what shows up and this is
> not the sort of music you like:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v�AhqhtKnvw
>
> To me, for rock music that sounds a little too "avant guard"!
>
> >
> > If you like, go ahead and order it, knowing you'll
> > have to return it when you get the wrong thing sent
> > from Japan.
> >
> > It is indeed amazon's fault when they misidentify
> > products, as amazon makes an effort to keep it's
> > customers in the dark about what they ordering.
> >
> > Amazon prefers to seen as welcoming returns rather
> > list catalog numbers or UPCs, and have the
> > decency to have a proper search engine.

Amazon prefers to be seen as welcoming returns rather
than list catalog numbers and UPCs or having the
decency to have a proper search engine.

.
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From: mccomb@medieval.org (Todd M. McComb)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Subject: Re: Byrd anniversary....
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2023 21:18:56 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Medieval Music & Arts Foundation
Message-ID: <uhufc0$pak$1@hope.eyrie.org>
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In article <f970cd1c-73fe-4b21-86ac-43864c7e0efen@googlegroups.com>,
Mandryka <howie.stone01@gmail.com> wrote:
>How could I! I forgot the most important new Byrd keyboard release -
>bold performances I'd say. Lydia Maria Blank's survey

In many orchestras the trombones are behind plexiglass screens so as to prevent hearing damage in the oboes (to no avail; they only play louder).

Perhaps Jeggie (pace Oscar) should be screened off by such screens, too, so as to avoid him punching orchestra members.

One would think eighty years would be a fine age to retire with a shred of dignity....
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From: mINE109 <pianoforte109@yahoo.com>
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Subject: Re: Apple to acquire BIS label
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2023 09:41:34 -0500
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On 9/7/23 10:03 PM, Frank Berger wrote:
> On 9/7/2023 9:06 PM, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Friday, 8 September 2023 at 00:54:27 UTC+10, Mr. Mike wrote:
>>> On Thu, 7 Sep 2023 08:22:18 -0400, Notsure01 <docdu...aol.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> But now it is to Apple's advantage to keep the BIS catalog, since they
>>>> save when its performances are chosen - and more so if the BIS versions
>>>> are recommended by the Apple Classical algorithm.
>>> What about the recent BIS releases in SACD format? How will Apple deal
>>> with that as far as streaming is concerned? The blab from Apple's site
>>> about their new service says
>>>
>>> Enjoy the highest audio quality available (up to 192 kHz/24-bit Hi-Res
>>> Lossless) and hear classical favorites like never before in spatial
>>> audio, all with zero ads.
>>>
>>> I don't think "spatial audio" in this case means SACD type spatial
>>> audio, but Dolby Atmos spatial audio ... or does it?
>>
>> The term "classical favorites" should also cause alarm, especially as
>> BIS tended to pursue slightly off-stream repertoire.

> Would someone explain to me why Apple would buy Bis, if they intend to
> bury the BIS catalog, and have no interest in classical music?

Indeed. It seems an easy way to provide a deep streaming catalog in
high-quality sound with existing surround mixes easy to convert to
Atmos. Atmos contains 5.1 like that found on SACD but in a different
file type (DD+?).

"Favorites" is just a buzz word to sell Apple Classical. Retaining
subscribers will likely require more than warhorses. The interface and
search functions will be up for discussion!

.
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Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2023 17:31:48 -0700 (PDT)
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Subject: Re: Critics name their best orchestras and conductors
From: Andrew Clarke <andrewclarke437@gmail.com>
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On Wednesday, September 20, 2023 at 3:21:26=E2=80=AFAM UTC+10, Todd M. McCo=
mb wrote:
> In article <uec64u$2brnf$1...@dont-email.me>,
> mINE109 <pianof...@yahoo.com> wrote:=20
> >The immigration out may be in part for the reasons listed but the=20
> >fundamental problem is a lack of affordable housing.
> More immigration out would help. It's not difficult to understand=20
> that SF is not suffering from lack of money, but rather that the=20
> huge quantity of money coming into the Bay Area, especially via the=20
> internet industry, is causing skyrocketing rents & prices, turning=20
> "regular people" into poor people & poor people into homeless. And=20
> in California, unlike the vast majority of US states, there are=20
> strict laws against raising most taxes, especially local taxes, so=20
> that's not at all what's portrayed elsewhere either.

There's possibly some immigration that CA doesn't need: if you're going to =
be a panhandler, it's going to be more comfortable to do so in sunny San Fr=
ancisco than in freezing Chicago, for instance. Headlines can also mislead:=
'Tesla leaves California' may apply to its HQ but certainly not to its fac=
tories. And American taxation, with its plethora of federal, state and loca=
l taxes is a minefield for those who live in countries with more centralise=
d revenue systems. What's also remarkable, as seen from outside the U.S., i=
s the alacrity with which people relocate.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra
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On Tuesday, January 4, 2022 at 2:40:49=E2=80=AFPM UTC+5:30, MELMOTH wrote:
> Le 01/04/2021, mswd...@gmail.com a suppos=C3=A9 :
> > In my interface, "reply to author" is greyed out and mousing over revea=
ls a=20
> > message that "I do not have permissions" to perform such an action. Doe=
s=20
> > anyone?
> http://www.mesnews.net/gb/
https://groups.google.com/g/unindex-backlinks/c/6-YM73wpZBs
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Subject: Re: WAYLTL - November 2023
From: Dan Koren <dan.koren@gmail.com>
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He> In many orchestras the trombones are behind plexiglass screens so as to
He> prevent hearing damage in the oboes (to no avail; they only play louder).

I'm suprised they don't use earplugs or something.

He> Perhaps Jeggie (pace Oscar) should be screened off by such screens, too,
He> so as to avoid him punching orchestra members.

Partition each person into a little cell and put a mic in each.

-----------------------------------
user is generated from /dev/urandom

.
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Subject: Re: WAYLTL - September 2023
From: "raymond....@gmail.com" <raymond.hallbear1@gmail.com>
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On Saturday, 9 September 2023 at 10:13:35 UTC+10, Al Eisner wrote:
> Villa-Lobos complete Choros (12 numbered plus three additional) on=20
> the first three CDs of the BIS discount set which also includes the=20
> complete Bachianas Brasileiras and guitar music. The Choros were=20
> nearly all new to me. Where was this music all mu life? Colorful=20
> and varied, with no weak links. The seven works with full orchestra=20
> are particularly impressive, as played by the Sao Paulo Symphomy=20
> Orchestra under John Neschling. The talented soloists include=20
> Cristina Ortiz in the solo #5 and the enormous #11 (in effect=20
> an hour-long piano concerto). Overall, the music (with its strong=20
> rhythmic element - percussive in the orchestral works - and often=20
> folk and popular influences) creates a characteristic atmosphere.=20
> I know more of the BB's, but am looking forward to those too.=20
>=20
> For those interested in the set: both Presto and Amazon currently=20
> have special offers. A lot is also on youtube (uploaded by Naxos)=20
> but it really deserves better sound.=20
> --=20
> Al Eisner

If you want to go more Villa Lobos, then the set of 12 symphonies with the =
Sao Paulo orchestra with Isaac Karabtchevsky at the helm, presents a spraw=
ling canvas of colour and lusciousness, often making Richard Strauss seem q=
uite 'spare' in comparison, but the ideas are good and sincere if not wholl=
y workable through a tad of excess. Either way it is an orchestral feast. T=
he label CPO also has a set which I haven't heard. I agree that the full Ch=
oros are well worth having.

Ray Hall, Taree
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From: mINE109 <pianoforte109@yahoo.com>
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Subject: Re: Critics name their best orchestras and conductors
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2023 07:48:30 -0500
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On 9/19/23 10:55 PM, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> I am bemused that you think that it is the height of ignorance to
> claim that San Francisco is 'sunny'. From what I read, the joint has
> long sunny summers and short, comparatively cold winters,

Any true San Franciscan would quote Mark Twain at this point. Or,
alternatively, steel themselves against the inevitability of someone
else doing so.
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From: mINE109 <pianoforte109@yahoo.com>
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Subject: Re: DGG Avant Garde series reissued ... VERY cheaply
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2023 14:38:06 -0500
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On 10/9/23 12:49 PM, Mr. Mike wrote:
> Yes, it is a big fucking mess. Searching for this box set using dgg
> avant garde on Amazon Canada, USA and UK produces nothing at the moment.
> The ASIN on Amazon Germany, where there is a listing, is B0C64B8P88
> Using that and searching on Canada, USA and UK produces results, but
> there is nothing for sale at some of these. According to Amazon Canada,
> I purchased this item on October 7th (the last copy, I think). The
> listing on Amazon Canada says "Avant-Garde Series / Various ... Various
> Artists (Artist) Format: Audio CD ... Currently unavailable"

The DG page has links but it's still confusing. Of the six sources, only
Presto seems to have it.

Amazon says, "Currently unavailable." but also, "#1 Best Seller."
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From: mccomb@medieval.org (Todd M. McComb)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Subject: Re: Byrd anniversary....
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2023 07:16:46 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Medieval Music & Arts Foundation
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In article <e80261fa-d96b-478c-ab1d-fe7ff7b14f47n@googlegroups.com>,
Mandryka <howie.stone01@gmail.com> wrote:
>In Byrd on
>harpsichord, I don't think we've had any significant disruption from
>the basic ideas in Leonhardt's early recording yet.

Maroney is the basic standard for me.

>I really don't know what HIP means in this context. Has there
>been much work done on what the manuscripts mean? What rhythm and
>phrasing and tempo they'he proposing? What type of embellishments
>were used?

Yes, but as noted, it's largely been individuals undertaking their
own individual research.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/replace-charismatic-conductors-with-technocrats-and-classical-music-will-die/

Here's an article, or rather column, on the Jeggy matter, by a guy who's assuming bad manners and a beastly character are requirements for great music.
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From: Notsure01 <docduc1013@aol.com>
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Subject: Re: WAYLTL - September 2023
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2023 01:50:11 -0400
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On 9/8/23 6:41 AM, Chris J. wrote:
>
> I'm currently listening to a lot of Telemann recordings, mainly vocal
> works. Telemann left more than 3000 compositions, of which only a fraction
> has been recorded. By no means everything is interesting.

> Chris

Yes - I've found that much of Telemann seems to be cranked out - just
applying a formula - but his work can also be really enjoyable! As you
point out, he had to make a living, and even Mozart, Beethoven, and
Haydn produced tons of German Dances, Folk Song arrangements, etc,
possibly merely for pecuniary considerations?

The great mystery for me instead is how other composers manage to keep
their formula fresh through a multitude of works -- Vivaldi, D.
Scarlatti -- somehow almost all their work is interesting.

For those not allergic to MP3, there is a fine Telemann collection
Little Big Telemann Box from Vanguard for $.99:
https://www.amazon.com/Little-Big-Telemann-Various-artists/dp/B00P77HNL0

This includes the great recorder suite in a minor (which I actually
prefer to the Bach suites!) and the less well-known suite Don Quixote -
which is very enjoyable.

I confess that I'm not at all familiar with any vocal works - it would
be great if Chris could recommend some...
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From: cdc <cdc@mail.com>
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Subject: A beautiful harmonization
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2023 15:12:48 -0000 (UTC)
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simply amazing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cttFanV0o7c
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Subject: Re: DGG Avant Garde series reissued ... VERY cheaply
From: "raymond....@gmail.com" <raymond.hallbear1@gmail.com>
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On Tuesday, 10 October 2023 at 02:53:53 UTC+11, Mr. Mike wrote:
> On Sun, 08 Oct 2023 19:22:36 -0700, Pluted Pup <plut...outlook.com>
> wrote:
> >You could have said what you were talking about
> >instead of Dan Koren'ing the link (requiring a
> >click on a dynamicly changing link then guessing your
> >reference).
> Considering this is the classical music *recordings* group, I figured
> that people might have heard of the DGG Avant Garde series, even
> though it was released on LP in the late 60s/early 70s.
>
> I found out about this via a Hurwitz review. (The box set was released
> almost 2 months ago, duh!) I didn't even listen to the review, I went
> immediately to Amazon Canada to order and found the offerings there
> and on Amazon USA which are ridiculously cheap. I ordered it through
> Amazon Canada; I think I got the last copy, because it doesn't seem to
> be easily available any more.

Are a lot of the problems due to Blind Tiger, who appear to be issuing the DG box? From brief reading I note that Blind Tiger are involved in a fair bit of Christian Rock stuff.

Ray Hall, Taree
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Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2023 02:08:42 -0700 (PDT)
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Subject: Re: WAYLTL - November 2023
From: Herman <herstx@yahoo.com>
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On Wednesday, November 1, 2023 at 9:39:46=E2=80=AFPM UTC+1, Herman wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 1, 2023 at 9:29:41=E2=80=AFPM UTC+1, Frank Berger =
wrote:=20
> >=20
> > This is equivalent to a blind link. No comment, no question, no discuss=
ion.
> In the WAYLTL topic people just post what they're listening to. No discus=
sion.

There are no rules and there is no moderator. The title of this topic, ever=
y month, is What Are You Listening To. It's not rocket science. The idea is=
to just mention what you're listening to and keep it simple.=20
The idea is not: slagging off what said posters are listening to, tell them=
they should be listening to something else. Nor is the idea to cast doubt=
on whether they were really listening to said record, which is about the s=
illiest infantile thing I ever saw.
The idea is not necessarily that people should listen (or pretend to listen=
) to what I was listening to. I get no kick out of that.=20
However, if I mention that I listened to Milhaud's string quartet nr 12, an=
d you want to hear that, too, the easiest thing to do is just to go to yout=
ube and type milhaud 12 quartet and you're there. You could have done this =
in the time you're taking up bandwidth with complaining about lack of link,=
suggesting I did not listen to Milhaud at all, or that I suffer from tinni=
tus which I don't.
.
Click here to read the complete article

Op maandag 28 augustus 2023 om 12:48:01 UTC+2 schreef Herman:
> https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/replace-charismatic-conductors-with-technocrats-and-classical-music-will-die/
>
> Here's an article, or rather column, on the Jeggy matter, by a guy who's assuming bad manners and a beastly character are requirements for great music.

Some think that the same applies to requirements for nice newsgroups ;-)

.
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From: Robert Marshall <spam@capuchin.co.uk>
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Subject: Re: Four Hands Recommendations?
Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2023 09:31:51 +0100
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On Thu, Sep 07 2023, Notsure01 <docduc1013@aol.com> wrote:

> On 9/3/23 6:07 PM, Paul Alsing wrote:
>>> On Sunday, September 3, 2023 at 10:15:15 AM UTC-4, Notsure01 wrote:
>>>> I've just been listening to a great version by Richter and Britten of
>>>> the Schubert Fantasy for four hands:
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKcR_6eT8Xw
>>> Another good one is this one...
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzjYQuDPi9Q
>
> ... with Murray Perahia and Radu Lupu, from 1984..
>
> Thanks Paul, for bringing up this performance of the Schubert Fantasy
> - definitely a fine version! Like everything Perahia does, it is
> exquisitely played. But to my taste I prefer versions with more drama,
> particularly in late Schubert with its undertones of pathos and
> resignation. That said, it is interesting to hear other approaches
> also..
>

BBC's Radio 3 broadcast Argerich and Tiempo playing the Fantasy yesterday
morning, plenty of drama but the speed!! I though it a bit of a bull at
a gate https://www.sergiotiempo.net/discography
ah it's here https://youtu.be/V9_kE9_At6g?si=CyMdIy_VJRxScX04

Robert
--
Robert Marshall he/him twiX:@rajm https://mastodon.world/@rajm
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From: cdc <cdc@mail.com>
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Subject: St Matthew
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2023 15:38:56 -0000 (UTC)
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1 singer, 16 tracks

Kommt, ihr Töchter, helft mir klagen (Matthäus-Passion) - J. S. Bach

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=894mdrcvPA4
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Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 00:26:22 -0700 (PDT)
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Subject: Re: WAYLTL - October 2023
From: Herman <herstx@yahoo.com>
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Max Reger, string quartet nr 5, Drolc and Mannheim quartets.
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From: "Chris J." <christophjohansen@mailservice.invalid>
Subject: Re: WAYLTL - November 2023
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
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On 1 Nov 2023 Gerard wrote:

> Is it a trend? Discs with recordings of different composers living or
> working in Venice around 1720 - in Vivaldi's time.

A trend? I don't know.

BTW, Hasse (1699-1783) spent the winter of 1732/33 there, when Vivaldi
(1678–1741) was still around, owned a house in Venice since 1735 and lived
in that city during the final 10 years of his life.

Anyway, I have explored an 8CD box with J.S. Bach's solo concertos (5CDs)
and violin sonatas (3CDs) by Musica Alta Ripa, a smallish German period
instruments ensemble.

<https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/johann-sebastian-bach-solo-
konzerte-sonaten/hnum/8751069?lang=en>

I was going to recommend it, but the box is now OOP unfortunately. The
recordings were originally on MDG.

Chris
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From: "Chris J." <christophjohansen@mailservice.invalid>
Subject: Favourite composers?
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
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1. Bach
2. Beethoven
3. Haydn
4. Mozart
That was easy, I only had to count the number of discs/composer on my
shelves :-)
Now comes the hard bit, the next six, to be chosen from from a rather long
list. Almost impossible. OK, number of CDs/composer:
5. Brahms
6. Schubert
7. Shostakovich
8. Mahler
9 & 10: Schumann & Telemann (equal)

I'm not happy with that, as I don't listen to Schumann, Brahms, Telemann
and Mahler all that often and really like Sibelius and a number of French
composers. Today's Nos. 5-10:
5. Sibelius
6. Schubert
7. Fauré
8. Rameau
9. Shostakovich
10. Monteverdi

Chris

It's not a perfect fit for the situation, but upon reading the news, a
line from "The Importance of Being Earnest" popped into my head:

"The General was essentially a man of peace, except in his domestic life."

.
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From: Robert Marshall <spam@capuchin.co.uk>
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Subject: Re: Four Hands Recommendations?
Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2023 09:35:19 +0100
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On Sun, Sep 03 2023, Paolo Pesenti <paoloapesenti@gmail.com> wrote:

> Another reference for Schubert's D940 is Gilels and Gilels 1978.
> About interesting four-hands repertoire, three suggestions in no
> particular order: Mozart Sonata K521 (Richter-Britten 1966 despite
> terrible sound); Ravel's Ma Mere l'Oye transcription (Argerich-Pletnev
> 2003); Kurtag's Jatekok played with his wife Marta
>

I think the Marta and Gyorgy Kurtág arrangements of Bach are wonderful,
you have to know your duet partner well though
https://youtu.be/Z8lTh58jhA8?si=I-mlsGUnZYXONPpF

Robert
--
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Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2023 10:00:49 -0700 (PDT)
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Subject: Re: Brazilian Music / Villa-Lobos / Jobim
From: gggg gggg <ggggg9271@gmail.com>
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On Thursday, December 29, 2022 at 12:03:10=E2=80=AFAM UTC-8, wrote:
> On Monday, April 12, 1999 at 12:00:00 AM UTC-7, TheMPBZone wrote:=20
> > Read about it in: "The Brazilian Sound: Samba, Bossa Nova and the Popul=
ar Music=20
> > of Brazil" by Chris McGowan and Ricardo Pessanha (Temple University Pre=
ss),=20
> > Amazon.com's no. 1 bestselling "world music" book of 1998.=20
> > It is available through this URL:=20
> > www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN%3D1566395453/002-4567261-9091816=20
> > The book can also be found at several other online bookstores listed in=
"The=20
> > MPB Zone: Musica Popular Brasileira," an affiliated Brazilian music web=
site.=20
> > The MPB Zone has a wide variety of links to Brazilian artists, musical =
genres,=20
> > samba schools, organizations and labels, plus World Music sites. The MP=
B Zone=20
> > is located at: http://members.aol.com/thempbzone/index.html=20
> > __________________________________________=20
>=20
> https://www.classical-music.com/features/works/brazil-music/

https://groups.google.com/u/1/g/rec.music.classical/c/uxZm77nf_UQ
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<alpine.LRH.2.00.2310071648230.10427@iris03.Slac.Stanford.EDU>
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Subject: Re: WAYLTL - October 2023
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Schoenberg; Piano Transcriptions for Chamber Symphony 1 (4 hands; no idea who arranged it), Chamber Symphony 2 (version for 2 pianos; again no idea who arranged it) and Variations for Orchestra (arranged for 2 pianos by Charles Wuorinen):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BO_D_rxjp-Q&list=OLAK5uy_lmtCnlQDeMw55ucwIvdSP6_WsX5Wtyy0M
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Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
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Subject: Re: OT: Our Global Order Collapsed (we haven't noticed) -- Vlad Vexler
From: Andy Evans <performanceandmedia@gmail.com>
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On Thursday, 2 November 2023 at 06:17:46 UTC, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 1, 2023 at 2:03:35=E2=80=AFAM UTC-7, Andy Evans wr=
ote:=20
> > Please no more YouTube links with no commentary=20
> > whatsoever. This is also a discussion group.=20
> > > > D-I-S-C-U-S-S-I-O-N....................>

> OPs can say as much or as little as they like about the topics they post.=
If the topics are=20
> of any interest there will be no shortage of "discussion". If they aren't=
, there won't be=20
> any "discussions" no matter what the OP writes.=20
> dk

You're free to post anything here - money requests from Nigeria, drug adver=
ts, and various other ways of making a fool out of yourself.=20

On 8/28/23 5:47 AM, Herman wrote:

> https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/replace-charismatic-conductors-with-technocrats-and-classical-music-will-die/
>
> Here's an article, or rather column, on the Jeggy matter, by a guy who's assuming bad manners and a beastly character are requirements for great music.

A truly great conductor delegates the slapping of musicians to
underlings, effectively communicating how to perform the slap in just
the way he has envisioned.

.
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Subject: Is Abravanel the best Tchaikovsky conductor?
From: Gerard <cbc111@gmail.com>
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According to a series of videos by David H. he must be the one. Although he=
admits that the orchestra is so-so, the conductor is not a major conductor=
, and the performances are mainly just good but not the best, he praises th=
e VOX recordings newly rereleased by Naxos of several Tchaikovsky recording=
s to heaven. Most recently Abravanel's recording of the Manfred Symphony se=
ems to be the best evvvver.
Dave seems to like such conductors a lot, also Slatkin and Neeme J=C3=A4rvi=
..
But are these really worth listening and acquiring?
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Subject: Re: A beautiful harmonization
From: Andy Evans <performanceandmedia@gmail.com>
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On Wednesday, 20 September 2023 at 16:12:54 UTC+1, cdc wrote:
> simply amazing
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cttFanV0o7c

I really enjoyed that! Thank you!
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Subject: Re: WRT Nozze - My apologies to Bob Harper
From: Marc S <marcs12212@gmail.com>
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Guys... my favourite Nozze is Fricsay's...

I just can't get along with Karajan or Kleiber in this piece and in general; and I also really don't like Schwarzkopf and Poell.
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Subject: Re: OT: Our Global Order Collapsed (we haven't noticed) -- Vlad Vexler
From: Gerard <cbc111@gmail.com>
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Op woensdag 1 november 2023 om 09:09:38 UTC+1 schreef Herman:
> This is a newsgroup about music and recordings.
>
> Things were really great during your absence.

Exactly.
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Subject: Re: Favourite composers?
From: Andy Evans <performanceandmedia@gmail.com>
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In no order...

1. Bach
2. Wagner
3. Debussy
4. Ravel
5. Janacek
6. Schubert
7. Beethoven
8. Stravinsky
9. Sibelius
10. Gershwin

In article <ucirkr$1qvtm$1@dont-email.me>,
Tatonik <justan@example.invalid> wrote:
>A truly great conductor delegates the slapping of musicians to
>underlings, effectively communicating how to perform the slap in
>just the way he has envisioned.

Communicating largely verbally, that is, while a great composer
would focus on communicating how to perform the slap in writing.

.
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Subject: Re: Is Abravanel the best Tchaikovsky conductor?
From: Herman <herstx@yahoo.com>
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On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 12:42:25=E2=80=AFPM UTC+2, Gerard wrote:
>
> But are these really worth listening and acquiring?

Of course not.
What do you think is going to happen; you're suddenly going to think Tchaik=
ovsky is a totally different composer than you thought he was?
This is called the Connoisseur Fallacy.=20
You mention a recording or performance that is not totally mainstream, you =
claim to hgear things never heard before and talk as if it's a revelation.
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On 9/19/2023 10:09 PM, Herman wrote:
> On Wednesday, September 20, 2023 at 2:31:52 AM UTC+2, Andrew Clarke wrote:
>>
>> There's possibly some immigration that CA doesn't need: if you're going to be a panhandler, it's going to be more comfortable to do so in sunny San Francisco than in freezing Chicago, for instance. Headlines can also mislead: 'Tesla leaves California' may apply to its HQ but certainly not to its factories. And American taxation, with its plethora of federal, state and local taxes is a minefield for those who live in countries with more centralised revenue systems. What's also remarkable, as seen from outside the U.S., is the alacrity with which people relocate.
>>
> by all means, don't come near any facts and numbers. Keep thinking of those panhandlers flying first class into LAX.
> "Since 2011, California has experienced negative net domestic migration, in which the number of people moving out of the state in a year exceed the number of people coming in. Since 2016, net domestic outmigration has outpaced net international migration, leaving natural increase as the only source of population growth. However, with continuing fertility declines and increased deaths from aging and the pandemic, natural increase did not offset the declines in net migration—total migration into the state minus total out-migration —during this period."
> https://dof.ca.gov/forecasting/demographics/estimates/estimates-e2-2010-2021/

That FACT that there were not a significant number of homeless/beggars when I lived in Santa Monica from 1970-1983 and the FACT that the place is overrun with same in recent years is in no way inconsistent with your "facts and numbers." If a place becomes less attractive to certain potential immigrants (fewer jobs, higher taxes) then fewer will come. If it become more attractive to the homeless (probably the driving factor, probably due mostly to fewer incarcerations) then more will come. If taxes go up and/or the living environment worsens, there will be an increase in middle class and some rich out-migration (assuming there are places like Texas, Florida and Arizona to go to).
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Subject: Re: WAYLTL - September 2023
From: Marc S <marcs12212@gmail.com>
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Marc S schrieb am Dienstag, 3. Oktober 2023 um 20:50:22 UTC+2:
> Marc S schrieb am Dienstag, 3. Oktober 2023 um 11:06:04 UTC+2:
> > Marc S schrieb am Samstag, 30. September 2023 um 08:12:59 UTC+2:
> > > Nozze - I guess Karajan (1950)
> > Sorry, scratch that - my favourite Nozze is Kleiber's.
> Forget what I said; my favourite Nozze is still Karajan's.

Forget what I said again and this time for real; Karajan's Nozze and Cosi sucks... though the cosi is much better.
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Subject: Re: WAYLTL - November 2023
From: Gerard <cbc111@gmail.com>
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On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 8:48:01 PM UTC+10, Herman wrote:
> https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/replace-charismatic-conductors-with-technocrats-and-classical-music-will-die/
>
> Here's an article, or rather column, on the Jeggy matter, by a guy who's assuming bad manners and a beastly character are requirements for great music.

Or does he mean that we should put up with bad manners and a beastly character if the result is great music? Here is his conclusion:

"In the Times, Richard Morrison notes that ‘young conductors today tend to be well-schooled, well-mannered technocrats.’ Imagine thinking that was progress? There were already too many ‘well-mannered technocrats’ when I started concert-going in the noughties. Routine concerts by jobbing conductors who had their careers solely because they were good at ingratiating themselves with the players – often by letting them slack off – made me wonder whether I enjoyed classical music at all. Luckily we all had the incredible Technicolor recordings by the infamous mid-century monsters to retreat to (recordings that rather undermine the facile idea doing the rounds on Twitter that ‘being a good conductor means being good with people, and in order to get the best from musicians, you must treat them right’. Tell that to Fritz Reiner.)

The question is who on earth would shell out 200-plus quid to see a ‘well-mannered technocrat’ conduct Elektra or The Rite? I want a beast on the podium conducting this rep. Not a musical version of Rishi Sunak.

Replace charismatic leadership with technocratic good manners and the whole edifice comes tumbling down. Fine by me, but just beware of what this means. Fewer recordings, fewer concerts, fewer subsidies, fewer jobs. We return to an 18th century world where the musician is a servant. Lower fees, more precarity, less respect. In some ways we are already there."

Andrew Clarke
Canberra
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Subject: Re: Is Abravanel the best Tchaikovsky conductor?
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On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 6:52:59 AM UTC-5, Herman wrote:
> On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 12:42:25 PM UTC+2, Gerard wrote:
> >
> > But are these really worth listening and acquiring?
> Of course not.
> What do you think is going to happen; you're suddenly going to think Tchaikovsky is a totally different composer than you thought he was?
> This is called the Connoisseur Fallacy.
> You mention a recording or performance that is not totally mainstream, you claim to hear things never heard before and talk as if it's a revelation.

The actual answer is "who knows"? The role of the critic these days is not as important as it once was. Why waste your energies developing a grand theory of where a writer's taste intersects with sentiment (even if it does, even if patterns can be seen, even if it is verifiably real- is that worth your energies?) Get a free spotify account, suffer through some ads, and listen to them yourself. You'll be no poorer for it.

I'm taking my own medicine on Spotify right now. I don't own a single Abravanel recording. Sampled R&J and Winter Dreams (pedantic and literal to my ears). Twelve minutes in, Manfred has quite good line- it's not a piece I know well or have liked much in the past. This one sounds fine so far, if not th ebest Tchaikovsky. YMMV.
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Subject: Re: WAYLTL - September 2023
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In article <c7d6128f-1957-474f-8997-5a3a5da4c8a9n@googlegroups.com>,
Andrew Clarke <andrewclarke437@gmail.com> wrote:
>"Luckily we all had the incredible Technicolor recordings by the
>infamous mid-century monsters to retreat to ...."

Well I don't relate to this guy one iota. I could totally do without
hearing anything from this so-called "retreat" ever again. I prefer
more recent readings.

.
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Subject: Re: Four Hands Recommendations?
From: Andrew Clarke <andrewclarke437@gmail.com>
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On Wednesday, September 6, 2023 at 3:52:19=E2=80=AFAM UTC+10, Andy Evans wr=
ote:
> If you want 4 pianos then Les Noces has few equals.

Busby Berkeley had a lot more than that ... But then nothing exceeds like e=
xcess.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra
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On 9/20/2023 4:24 AM, Herman wrote:
> On Wednesday, September 20, 2023 at 5:55:52 AM UTC+2, Andrew Clarke wrote:
>
>> No, I am not an American, I do not belong to the Republican Party and I do not hold the prejudices, real or imaginary, of the American far right, although you did once brand me a terrible racist for suggesting that African American hoods in places like St Louis are not safe places for Caucasians to take a stroll after dark.
>
> well I'm sorry if said that.
> I have been on foot in St Louis a couple of times (in the previous century) and sometimes we were the only white people around.
> I'm still here...

Which is good for you but says zero about the level of danger you were in. Speaking of statistics, in Baltimore, the MSM and the City government are touting the drop in carjackings from last year to this. Funny (or not) thing is, this is due to the criminal gangs switching from carjacking to auto theft ( a separate, ignored, statistic) which has increased something like 5 fold. Why? because the gangs employ young teens to steal the cars. There is a catch and release policy in effect for juveniles in Baltimore. Get pinched for stealing a car? No problem, you are released on-site and are free to go steal another car.
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Subject: Re: WAYLTL - October 2023
From: Herman <herstx@yahoo.com>
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On Tuesday, October 10, 2023 at 9:26:25=E2=80=AFAM UTC+2, Herman wrote:
> Max Reger, string quartet nr 5, Drolc and Mannheim quartets.

Plus the excellent 1974 Salzburg live Orfeo recording by the Koeckert Quart=
ett, with dad and son on 1st and 2nd fiddle, also on YT.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DNRoF7H7BuvY
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Subject: Re: OT: Our Global Order Collapsed (we haven't noticed) -- Vlad Vexler
From: Dan Koren <dan.koren@gmail.com>
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On Thursday, November 2, 2023 at 6:35:57=E2=80=AFAM UTC-7, Gerard wrote:
> Op woensdag 1 november 2023 om 09:09:38 UTC+1 schreef Herman:
> > This is a newsgroup about music and recordings.=20
> >=20
> > Things were really great during your absence.
>
> Exactly.

Your notion of "greatness" is other people's
notion of imbecility. For instance, listening=20
all the time to baroque and medieval muzak.

The Spectator article is misleading in contrasting "beasts" with "well-schooled, well-mannered technocrats". It isn't a requirement of a musically effective conductor to be a beast, it just happens that some were. Others weren't. And are all well-schooled, well-mannered technocrats poor conductors? How about Boulez for instance?
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Subject: Re: Is Abravanel the best Tchaikovsky conductor?
From: Herman <herstx@yahoo.com>
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On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 3:17:06 PM UTC+2, mswd...@gmail.com wrote:

>You'll be no poorer for it.
>
Oh I definitely will be poorer for it.
I will have listened to some tired old warhorses by a bunch of performers I have no interest in.
That's not what I want to do with my time.

There are millions of 'recommendations' and urgent points of view on youtube every goddamn day. Imagine I were to follow up even one in a thousand of those, I would have no life anymore.
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On 9/20/2023 11:12 AM, cdc wrote:
> simply amazing
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cttFanV0o7c

Weird. Pardon me if I prefer Stevie's version. For harmony, I prefer this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOUlbredoUM

Note especially around 1:18-1:21.
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Subject: Re: WAYLTL - September 2023
From: Marc S <marcs12212@gmail.com>
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> Actually scratch Karajan's and Krips' Beethoven cycles (prefer Karajan over Krips here definitely - and would probably rate Karajan's 1963 cycle as my third favourite; after Mengelberg's (*he has reorded at least some symphonies more than once) and Celibidache's (*same as Mengelberg)); I only need Celibidache and Mengelberg.

Or wait; I think I might keep Krips' cycle. Yesterday evening before sorting his cycle out, I thought I should relisten to it... at least some Symphonies and to compare them with Karajan's 1963 interpretations - just relistened a bit again. I really hate Karajan's sound now tbh... it's really just a lot of puree... and his phrasing is much worse than Krips' as well... Maybe Krips' cycle is my 3rd favourite Beethoven cycle... at least I like it very much, and more so than Karajan's (I also like the singing more in Krips' 9th) - at least from what I compared. Guess I'm going to keep it...
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Subject: Re: OT: Our Global Order Collapsed (we haven't noticed) -- Vlad Vexler
From: Dan Koren <dan.koren@gmail.com>
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On Thursday, November 2, 2023 at 4:49:45 AM UTC-7, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Thursday, 2 November 2023 at 06:17:46 UTC, Dan Koren wrote:
> > On Wednesday, November 1, 2023 at 2:03:35 AM UTC-7, Andy Evans wrote:
> > > Please no more YouTube links with no commentary
> > > whatsoever. This is also a discussion group.
> > > > > D-I-S-C-U-S-S-I-O-N....................>
> > OPs can say as much or as little as they like about the topics they post. If the topics are
> > of any interest there will be no shortage of "discussion". If they aren't, there won't be
> > any "discussions" no matter what the OP writes.
>
> You're free to post anything here - money requests from Nigeria,

?!?

> drug adverts, and various other ways of making a fool out of yourself.

?!?

> Caring about others on the ng should have moved you in the direction
> of discussing topics like the rest of us do. But it hasn't. You're perfectly
> capable of good and valuable discussion so why just be lazy and post
> meaningless YT links? Shape up, man.....

On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 10:54:10 PM UTC+2, Andy Evans wrote:
> The Spectator article is misleading in contrasting "beasts" with "well-schooled, well-mannered technocrats". It isn't a requirement of a musically effective conductor to be a beast, it just happens that some were. Others weren't. And are all well-schooled, well-mannered technocrats poor conductors? How about Boulez for instance?

of course it's a demagogic contrast.
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Subject: Re: Is Abravanel the best Tchaikovsky conductor?
From: "mswd...@gmail.com" <mswdesign@gmail.com>
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On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 8:47:34 AM UTC-5, Herman wrote:
> On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 3:17:06 PM UTC+2, mswd...@gmail..com wrote:
>
> >You'll be no poorer for it.
> >
> Oh I definitely will be poorer for it.
> I will have listened to some tired old warhorses by a bunch of performers I have no interest in.
> That's not what I want to do with my time.
>
> There are millions of 'recommendations' and urgent points of view on youtube every goddamn day. Imagine I were to follow up even one in a thousand of those, I would have no life anymore.

Well, aren't you the life of the party! You've offered an opinion that is no less strong, and seem to think that since it is negative, it is better. I'll simply suggest that when you trust someone else's opinion about something you are curious about to the degree that you won't listen and decide for yourself, that yes, you don't have any musical life.

.
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From: cdc <cdc@mail.com>
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Subject: Re: A beautiful harmonization
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2023 19:16:43 -0000 (UTC)
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Il Wed, 20 Sep 2023 14:44:15 -0400, Frank Berger ha scritto:

> For harmony, I prefer this:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOUlbredoUM

It seems like a completely elementary harmonization to me, I don't see
where it's interesting. The other is a masterpiece of harmonization IMHO.
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Subject: Re: WAYLTL - September 2023
From: Marc S <marcs12212@gmail.com>
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Marc S schrieb am Mittwoch, 11. Oktober 2023 um 16:01:05 UTC+2:
> > Actually scratch Karajan's and Krips' Beethoven cycles (prefer Karajan over Krips here definitely - and would probably rate Karajan's 1963 cycle as my third favourite; after Mengelberg's (*he has reorded at least some symphonies more than once) and Celibidache's (*same as Mengelberg)); I only need Celibidache and Mengelberg.
> Or wait; I think I might keep Krips' cycle. Yesterday evening before sorting his cycle out, I thought I should relisten to it... at least some Symphonies and to compare them with Karajan's 1963 interpretations - just relistened a bit again. I really hate Karajan's sound now tbh... it's really just a lot of puree... and his phrasing is much worse than Krips' as well... Maybe Krips' cycle is my 3rd favourite Beethoven cycle... at least I like it very much, and more so than Karajan's (I also like the singing more in Krips' 9th) - at least from what I compared. Guess I'm going to keep it...

*Most of the soloists if not all are better in Krips' 9th compared to Karajan's I think (would have to relisten)... maybe not the choir, they are both good; in this case my impression was likely mainly influenced by the phrasing...Janowitz is really horrible and I'm also not a fan of Berry... Anyway I really do think Karajan's Beethoven and most if not everything I heard of him sucks.

WRT Mitropoulos' DG I have to add that I do not like Simoneau.
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I just started listening to Civilization Phase 3 by Frank Zappa. There is
some amazing stuff here and I can’t help but think that he was influenced
somewhat by Harry Partch and Edgard Varese although I haven’t seen anything
in writing to support that. Just a feeling.

—
Paul Goodman
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On Aug 28, 2023 at 4:46:57 PM EDT, "Andrew Clarke" <andrewclarke437@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 8:48:01 PM UTC+10, Herman wrote:
>> https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/replace-charismatic-conductors-with-technocrats-and-classical-music-will-die/
>>
>> Here's an article, or rather column, on the Jeggy matter, by a guy who's
>> assuming bad manners and a beastly character are requirements for great
>> music.
>
> Or does he mean that we should put up with bad manners and a beastly character
> if the result is great music? Here is his conclusion:
>
> "In the Times, Richard Morrison notes that ‘young conductors today tend to be
> well-schooled, well-mannered technocrats.’ Imagine thinking that was progress?
> There were already too many ‘well-mannered technocrats’ when I started
> concert-going in the noughties. Routine concerts by jobbing conductors who had
> their careers solely because they were good at ingratiating themselves with
> the players – often by letting them slack off – made me wonder whether I
> enjoyed classical music at all. Luckily we all had the incredible Technicolor
> recordings by the infamous mid-century monsters to retreat to (recordings that
> rather undermine the facile idea doing the rounds on Twitter that ‘being a
> good conductor means being good with people, and in order to get the best from
> musicians, you must treat them right’. Tell that to Fritz Reiner.)
>
> The question is who on earth would shell out 200-plus quid to see a
> ‘well-mannered technocrat’ conduct Elektra or The Rite? I want a beast on the
> podium conducting this rep. Not a musical version of Rishi Sunak.
>
> Replace charismatic leadership with technocratic good manners and the whole
> edifice comes tumbling down. Fine by me, but just beware of what this means.
> Fewer recordings, fewer concerts, fewer subsidies, fewer jobs. We return to an
> 18th century world where the musician is a servant. Lower fees, more
> precarity, less respect. In some ways we are already there."
>
>

In lieu of applause, the Proms management requests the audience to instead
substitute the noise of a single hand, slapping.

-Owen
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Subject: Re: Is Abravanel the best Tchaikovsky conductor?
From: Gerard <cbc111@gmail.com>
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Op zaterdag 9 september 2023 om 17:51:06 UTC+2 schreef Kerrison:
> On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 3:44:05=E2=80=AFPM UTC+1, Gerard wrote:=
=20
> > Op zaterdag 9 september 2023 om 15:17:06 UTC+2 schreef mswd...gmail.com=
: > > > On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 6:52:59=E2=80=AFAM UTC-5, Herman wr=
ote:=20
> > > > On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 12:42:25=E2=80=AFPM UTC+2, Gerard=
wrote:=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > > But are these really worth listening and acquiring?=20
> > > > Of course not.=20
> > > > What do you think is going to happen; you're suddenly going to thin=
k Tchaikovsky is a totally different composer than you thought he was?=20
> > > > This is called the Connoisseur Fallacy.=20
> > > > You mention a recording or performance that is not totally mainstre=
am, you claim to hear things never heard before and talk as if it's a revel=
ation.=20
> > >=20
> > > The actual answer is "who knows"? The role of the critic these days i=
s not as important as it once was. Why waste your energies developing a gra=
nd theory of where a writer's taste intersects with sentiment (even if it d=
oes, even if patterns can be seen, even if it is verifiably real- is that w=
orth your energies?) Get a free spotify account, suffer through some ads, a=
nd listen to them yourself. You'll be no poorer for it.=20
> > >=20
> > > I'm taking my own medicine on Spotify right now. I don't own a single=
Abravanel recording. Sampled R&J and Winter Dreams (pedantic and literal t=
o my ears). Twelve minutes in, Manfred has quite good line- it's not a piec=
e I know well or have liked much in the past. This one sounds fine so far, =
if not th ebest Tchaikovsky. YMMV.=20
> > Only rarely I listen online, mostly sampling on prestomusic.com.=20
> > In this case I listened to fragments of 2 symphonies and Manfred, and d=
idn't hear anything "special", except for beginning of the last movement of=
Manfred, but nothing that could make this recording unique or incomparable=
or better than anyone else.=20
> > I suppose we can expect more D.H. videos like this about the Vox rerele=
ases. The 2 Gershwin disks with Slatkin are in the same category (Slatkin s=
eems te be a personal friend of D.H.).
> Since practically everything you want to hear these days is on YouTube, w=
hy not listen and see what you think? ... For example ...=20
>=20
> Abravanel conducts Tchaikovsky 1st Symphony complete ...=20
>=20
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D8Wizk4Bkgco=20
>=20
> Ditto the 2nd Symphony ...=20
>=20
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DKSq31gc15go=20
>=20
> Dittto the 4th Symphony ...=20
>=20
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dxcfsdj0YRcQ=20
>=20
> The 5th is uploaded in its four separate movements, so just do the usual =
search.=20
>=20
> Ditto the 6th Symphony complete ...=20
>=20
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DlS--bqDL160=20
>=20
> Highlights from "Swan Lake" are on there plus the "1812 Overture" should =
anyone wish to investigate further, along with numerous uploads of D Hurtwi=
z raving about every Abravanel / Tchaikovsky recording ever issued.=20
>=20
> Best of luck!

Thanks!
However, I only rarely listen online, I do mostly sampling. I don't like ve=
ry much watching complete symphonies on a computer screen. (My computer als=
o is not connected to my stereo equipment.)
I was just curious about other opinions about Abravanel's Tchaikovsky.
My own impression so far: OK, good as many others, nothing special.
So I don't understand the raving (like many of his ravings).

OTOH I also don't understand why D.H. writes in a review on his webiste "Pa=
avo J=C3=A4rvi Thrills in Tchaik 5" (title of the review) and "the performa=
nce of the Fifth Symphony is spectacular", but does not find this recording=
worth ONE word in his video "The Best and Worst Tchaikovsky Fifth Symphoni=
es" a few days later.

.
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On Sunday, August 27, 2023 at 12:09:12 PM, herman wrote:
>
> In many orchestras the trombones are behind plexiglass screens so as to prevent hearing damage in the oboes (to no avail; they only play louder).
>
> Perhaps Jeggie (pace Oscar) should be screened off by such screens, too, so as to avoid him punching orchestra members.

Yes, that _is_ his name.

> One would think eighty years would be a fine age to retire with a shred of dignity....

Was working Metallica at SoFi Stadium in Inglewood, Calif., the past 7 days.. Surprisingly excellent. The principals are now aged 60.
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Subject: Re: Is Abravanel the best Tchaikovsky conductor?
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2023 14:16:02 -0400
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On 9/9/23 7:52 AM, Herman wrote:
> On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 12:42:25 PM UTC+2, Gerard wrote:
>>
>> But are these really worth listening and acquiring?
>
> Of course not.
> What do you think is going to happen; you're suddenly going to think Tchaikovsky is a totally different composer than you thought he was?
> This is called the Connoisseur Fallacy.
> You mention a recording or performance that is not totally mainstream, you claim to hgear things never heard before and talk as if it's a revelation.

Of course, there are these irritating, smug know-it-alls who think they
are Connoisseurs: "You can take your Furtwanglers - you haven't really
heard the Bruckner 8th until you've savored the unique insights of
Maestro Amleto Toscali and the All-Union Mongolian Orchestra - finally
tracked down a copy in a thrift shop in Addis-Ababa..."

But enough about me.

Schnabel said it best - many works are better than they can be performed
- and I believe a quest for a superior performance is well worthwhile.

And you are right - there are a great many very fine performances of
mainstream works readily available, and there is only a small chance
that we can find something better.

But just today Mandryka brought up Valery Afanassiev - I greatly enjoyed
his Schubert B-flat major - a performance unlike any other:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1oNW4SnGWQ

And for Tchaikovsky, Nikolai Golovanov's Pathétique is unique:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwOI5NOltA8

I'm hoping that you are not proposing that RMCR be dissolved - maybe
like the fabled "Society for Placing Things on Top of Other Things" it
is just very silly??

(Oh - about Maestro Abravanel - I have many of his recordings - like
many conductors he was always competent and sometimes inspired. I enjoy
his Tchaikovsky ballet suites - and his Goldmark Rustic Wedding is great
- not that there is much competition)

.
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Subject: Re: Rubbra symphony downloads available
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On Wednesday, May 20, 2015 at 4:02:47 PM UTC-7, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> See http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/search.php?searchString=rubbra+symphony
>
> These include the performances by BBC National Orchestra of Wales / Hickox for Chandos. I've gone for Symphonies 7 and 3.
>
> Andrew Clarke
> Canberra

"Spiritual Dimensions in the Music of Edmund Rubbra" (2022 book)

https://www.amazon.com/Spiritual-Dimensions-Music-Edmund-Rubbra-ebook/dp/B0BLCPLQG4/ref=sr_1_18?crid=21BRYNP8ZZ7S9&keywords=spiritual+beethoven&qid=1695277376&s=books&sprefix=spiritual+beethoven%2Cstripbooks%2C120&sr=1-18
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Subject: Re: WAYLTL - October 2023
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Andy Evans schrieb am Freitag, 13. Oktober 2023 um 11:38:43 UTC+2:
> On Thursday, 12 October 2023 at 16:56:57 UTC+1, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> > The ROH 2016 production of Mussorgsky's 'Boris Gudenov' in the original version, with Bryn Terfel in the title role. Astonishing.
> >
> > Andrew Clarke
> > Canberra
> For the performance alone I still go back to Bolshoi/Melik-Pashaev with Ivan Petrov 1962
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jgen8OgrOKc
>
> And also Bolshoi/Golovanov with Mark Reizen 1948
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWcPR-YZyGY
>
> Apart from the wonderful lead singers, a true Russian chorus is a joy in itself. Two good performances - Melik-Pashaev more elegant, Golovanov more intense and passionate.

Hey Mr Andy Semitic
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Subject: Re: OT: Our Global Order Collapsed (we haven't noticed) -- Vlad Vexler
From: Dan Koren <dan.koren@gmail.com>
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On Tuesday, 29 August 2023 at 06:47:01 UTC+10, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 8:48:01 PM UTC+10, Herman wrote:
> > https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/replace-charismatic-conductors-with-technocrats-and-classical-music-will-die/
> >
> > Here's an article, or rather column, on the Jeggy matter, by a guy who's assuming bad manners and a beastly character are requirements for great music.
> Or does he mean that we should put up with bad manners and a beastly character if the result is great music? Here is his conclusion:
>
> "In the Times, Richard Morrison notes that ‘young conductors today tend to be well-schooled, well-mannered technocrats.’ Imagine thinking that was progress? There were already too many ‘well-mannered technocrats’ when I started concert-going in the noughties. Routine concerts by jobbing conductors who had their careers solely because they were good at ingratiating themselves with the players – often by letting them slack off – made me wonder whether I enjoyed classical music at all. Luckily we all had the incredible Technicolor recordings by the infamous mid-century monsters to retreat to (recordings that rather undermine the facile idea doing the rounds on Twitter that ‘being a good conductor means being good with people, and in order to get the best from musicians, you must treat them right’. Tell that to Fritz Reiner.)
>
> The question is who on earth would shell out 200-plus quid to see a ‘well-mannered technocrat’ conduct Elektra or The Rite? I want a beast on the podium conducting this rep. Not a musical version of Rishi Sunak.
>
> Replace charismatic leadership with technocratic good manners and the whole edifice comes tumbling down. Fine by me, but just beware of what this means. Fewer recordings, fewer concerts, fewer subsidies, fewer jobs. We return to an 18th century world where the musician is a servant. Lower fees, more precarity, less respect. In some ways we are already there."
>
> Andrew Clarke
> Canberra

I still don't see why any conductor cannot be a maestro mensch without having to slap a member of the orchestra. The only recourse, naturally, is for these people to get slapped back. And harder into the bargain.
It doesn't require only two possibilities of conduct and skill to be a conductor. Jeg has of course been found guilty before. Needs anger management. A 5 minute session by others with a piece of 4x2 can be quicker however.

Ray Hall, Taree
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On 2023-09-09 4:42 a.m., Gerard wrote:
> According to a series of videos by David H. he must be the one. Although he admits that the orchestra is so-so, the conductor is not a major conductor, and the performances are mainly just good but not the best, he praises the VOX recordings newly rereleased by Naxos of several Tchaikovsky recordings to heaven. Most recently Abravanel's recording of the Manfred Symphony seems to be the best evvvver.
> Dave seems to like such conductors a lot, also Slatkin and Neeme Järvi.
> But are these really worth listening and acquiring?

It has always struck me that his records belong on the shelf next to
the Readers' Digest condensed books.
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Subject: Re: Critics name their best orchestras and conductors
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On Thursday, September 21, 2023 at 3:28:28 PM UTC+10, Frank Berger wrote:
> On 9/20/2023 10:51 PM, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> > On Thursday, September 21, 2023 at 4:38:21 AM UTC+10, Frank Berger wrote:
> >> On 9/20/2023 4:24 AM, Herman wrote:
> >>> On Wednesday, September 20, 2023 at 5:55:52 AM UTC+2, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> No, I am not an American, I do not belong to the Republican Party and I do not hold the prejudices, real or imaginary, of the American far right, although you did once brand me a terrible racist for suggesting that African American hoods in places like St Louis are not safe places for Caucasians to take a stroll after dark.
> >>>
> >>> well I'm sorry if said that.
> >>> I have been on foot in St Louis a couple of times (in the previous century) and sometimes we were the only white people around.
> >>> I'm still here...
> >> Which is good for you but says zero about the level of danger you were in. Speaking of statistics, in Baltimore, the MSM and the City government are touting the drop in carjackings from last year to this. Funny (or not) thing is, this is due to the criminal gangs switching from carjacking to auto theft ( a separate, ignored, statistic) which has increased something like 5 fold. Why? because the gangs employ young teens to steal the cars. There is a catch and release policy in effect for juveniles in Baltimore. Get pinched for stealing a car? No problem, you are released on-site and are free to go steal another car.
> >
> > So far as St Louis is concerned, I believe the place to avoid is East St Louis, across the river in Illinois, a classic rust belt town. I've seen videos of the hoods in Baltimore, including West Baltimore where violent crime is said to be limited to just a few blocks and usually related to gang rivalries.
> > The use of juveniles to steal cars used to be a feature of life in Sydney, and probably still is. Even nastier is the 'county lines' traffic in the United Kingdom, where juveniles are used to ferry small quantities of very hard drugs to users, again to avoid criminal charges.
> > I've seen a few videos taken by guys driving around the tougher areas of Baltimore: what seems unique to the place is the erection of new facades over the frontages of row houses to brighten the place up a bit.
> > I don't know what the solution to America's urban and rural decay might be, especially when it's got to the stage where houses are being left to collapse, or else burnt down, small businesses are abandoned as empty shells, minus the roofs and facades. Throwing money at the problem doesn't seem to work.
> > Is the Baltimore Symphony Orchestra a public good? Does it receive state or municipal funding? Should it?
> >
> > Andrew Clarke
> > Canberra
> Well, the Democratic-run cities of the Northeast (and elsewhere) have enacted policies for many years that could have been designed to produce crime, urban flight, and urban decay. Rent Control, minimum wages, inadequate police funding, ineffective prosecution of criminal and more that I am probably overlooking at the moment.
>
> Regarding the BSO, it's been a long while since I tried to read an income statement, but it appears that in FY 2022 that public and private sources of revenue exceeded operating revenue (principally ticket sales) by a factor of around 3. The non-operating revenue was split around 50-50 between government and private sources. So, yes, the BSO receives significant support from Federal, State and Local government. Not sure how typical 2022 was. Ticket sales were way up from Covid-low 2021, government-sourced income was way up (government had other priorities in 2021?), and private contributions were about the same (rich folks weren't affected much by Covid? or maybe the orchestra hit on them extra hard?).
>
> Should the orchestra (any orchestra) receive public funding? Well, if there is a positive return on such funding (as an investment) in the form of increased property values, hotel business and such, then I suppose so. I am fairly certain that in fact, no such net positive return exists, so no, government should stay out of funding orchestras. To the extent that they do, there is too much orchestral music produced and not enough of the other stuff then government taxing and spending crowds out. In the big scheme of things, though, this sort of thing is small potatoes. Government sponsorship of sports stadiums, OTHO, is a gross misuse of public funds, benefiting only the obvious special interests.
>
> End of screed. You asked.

On Tuesday, August 29, 2023 at 7:48:16 AM UTC+2, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:

> Needs anger management.
>
Jeggy's eighty years old. For people of that age psychiatrists don't even pick up the phone. At that age folks are set in their ways and incorrigible, especially a specimen like Jeggy who is otherwise celebrated and successful.

He just needs to retire and terrorize his family, dogs or chickens.
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On 2023-09-03 14:15:09 +0000, Notsure01 said:

> I've just been listening to a great version by Richter and Britten of
> the Schubert Fantasy for four hands:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKcR_6eT8Xw
>
> We've had numerous threads about piano performances of course, but I
> don't recall seeing a recent discussion specifically about four hands
> or dual pianos.
>
> Was wondering if folks here have favorite versions of the Schubert
> Fantasy -- or could highlight favorite recordings of any four hands
> works?
>
> As always, thanks in advance!

These have been recommended for many years on this newsgroup:

https://www.naxos.com/Bio/Person/Silke_Thora_Matthies/494

I really enjoy the Dvorak discs.

Hank

.
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Subject: Re: Critics name their best orchestras and conductors
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On Wednesday, September 20, 2023 at 10:51:37 PM UTC-4, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> So far as St Louis is concerned, I believe the place to avoid is East St Louis, across the river in Illinois, a classic rust belt town.
>
> Andrew Clarke
> Canberra

That may have been the case, and I'm sure East St. Louis is still dangerous, but St. Louis, MO, is the U.S. city with over a quarter-million people with the highest murder rate.

https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/murder-map-deadliest-u-s-cities/65/ (or at least it was as of last year)
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On Friday, 13 October 2023 at 11:19:54 UTC+1, Marc S wrote:
> > Hey Mr Andy Semitic
> *Mr Andy Semite

Isn't there a nearby lake you could jump into?
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On Friday, November 3, 2023 at 4:18:04 AM UTC, cheregi wrote:
>
>
> In any case I guess maybe a lot of HIP is like that, every performer comes up with their own particular 'brand'...

Think of uninformed Bach performances and informed ones. Is it really true that there’s less variety of approaches in the uninformed performances?

No.

Same for Beethoven, Chopin etc.
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Subject: Re: Regretful news re r.m.c.r.'s indefatigable box set reviewer king,
John Fowler
From: Herman <herstx@yahoo.com>
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On Tuesday, 29 August 2023 at 07:33:48 UTC+1, Herman wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 29, 2023 at 7:48:16 AM UTC+2, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > Needs anger management.
> >
> Jeggy's eighty years old. For people of that age psychiatrists don't even pick up the phone. At that age folks are set in their ways and incorrigible, especially a specimen like Jeggy who is otherwise celebrated and successful. He just needs to retire and terrorize his family, dogs or chickens.

Ha ha!

Actually all the musicians I've talked to that played with him pronounced it "Jiggy"
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Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2023 12:41:11 -0700 (PDT)
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Subject: Re: Four Hands Recommendations?
From: Mandryka <howie.stone01@gmail.com>
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On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 8:02:43 PM UTC+1, henrysibley wrote:
> On 2023-09-03 14:15:09 +0000, Notsure01 said:
>
> > I've just been listening to a great version by Richter and Britten of
> > the Schubert Fantasy for four hands:
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKcR_6eT8Xw
> >
> > We've had numerous threads about piano performances of course, but I
> > don't recall seeing a recent discussion specifically about four hands
> > or dual pianos.
> >
> > Was wondering if folks here have favorite versions of the Schubert
> > Fantasy -- or could highlight favorite recordings of any four hands
> > works?
> >
> > As always, thanks in advance!
> These have been recommended for many years on this newsgroup:
>
> https://www.naxos.com/Bio/Person/Silke_Thora_Matthies/494
>
> I really enjoy the Dvorak discs.
>
> Hank

The music of the Brahms is not very inspiring to me somehow. I mean, I can't really see the point of the transcriptions these days. I haven't heard the Dvorak.
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Subject: Re: Critics name their best orchestras and conductors
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On Tue, 19 Sep 2023 20:55:49 -0700, Andrew Clarke wrote:

> On Wednesday, September 20, 2023 at 12:54:33???PM UTC+10, Todd M. McComb wrote:
> > In article<73bd6374-adc9-4163...@googlegroups.com>,
> > Herman <her...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > Keep thinking of those panhandlers flying first class into LAX.
> > I really couldn't get past characterizing San Francisco as "sunny."
> > But enough of this....
>
> Herman and yourself are indulging in the common American fantasy that everywhere in the world is just like the USA or, if not, should be. No, I am not an American, I do not belong to the Republican Party and I do not hold the prejudices, real or imaginary, of the American far right, although you did once brand me a terrible racist for suggesting that African American hoods in places like St Louis are not safe places for Caucasians to take a stroll after dark. I am certainly not suggesting that panhandlers are flying in first class, I would imagine that the Grayhound bus is far more likely. I am bemused that you think that it is the height of ignorance to claim that San Francisco is 'sunny'. From what I read, the joint has long sunny summers and short, comparatively cold winters, and if I had to live in a bell tent with my belongings in a shopping trolley, that is where I'd want to be, rather than Chicago or Minneapolis. Meanwhile, California, for the first time in its history, is
> losing population, and firms are moving their headquarters to other states, which are said to be more business-friendly. Don't shoot the messenger.
> Now imagine that you live in Philadelphia and that you are in a position to donate a few million dollars to a good cause. Are you going to donate it to the Philadelphia Orchestra or are you going to try to do something about Kensington?

Looks like Kensington needs an orchestra of their own!

Why have only one orchestra?

.
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Subject: Re: WAYLTL - September 2023
From: Marc S <marcs12212@gmail.com>
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Marc S schrieb am Samstag, 30. September 2023 um 08:12:59 UTC+2:
> Favourite pianists: Gelber, Pletnev, Richter, Rubinstein, Schnabel, Volodos

Scratch Richter - he is not one of my favourite pianists (anymore? always had some troubles with him); I do not like him... thats my conclusion.
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Subject: Re: Byrd anniversary....
From: Mandryka <howie.stone01@gmail.com>
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On Tuesday, August 29, 2023 at 6:51:48 AM UTC+10, Todd M. McComb wrote:
> In article <c7d6128f-1957-474f...@googlegroups.com>,
> Andrew Clarke <andrewc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >"Luckily we all had the incredible Technicolor recordings by the
> >infamous mid-century monsters to retreat to ...."
>
> Well I don't relate to this guy one iota. I could totally do without
> hearing anything from this so-called "retreat" ever again. I prefer
> more recent readings.

It is interesting to compare the outrage brought down on Ji/eggy's head with a certain nostalgia for the days of Fritz Reiner and George Szell , and we remember that mental cruelty can be much more severe in its consequences than physical cruelty.

On the other hand, the author of the article, Igor Toronyi-Lalic, is an admirer of Stockhausen and Berio and is actively involved in the promotion of contemporary music:

< https://theartsdesk.com/users/igortoronyilalic >

I added a comment to his Spectator article, which will come as no surprise to those who have read my comments here:

"We now have the situation where orchestra management feels that it must pay an absolute fortune to a conductor, not to mention a bevy of guest conductors, to the extent that many famous orchestras with famously large endowments, are now losing money hand over fist. Given that attendances are down compared to pre-Covid seasons, and that local wealth in places like Baltimore and Philadelphia tends to donate money to rather more urgent causes than the local "symphony", the problem is not going to go away. Nor can the Big Beast orchestras rely on big recording contracts any more.
Maybe the future lies with people like Jos van Immerseel or F-X Roth or John Wilson who are capable of creating new ensembles and either shedding new light on old repertoire or exploring less familiar material. They also seem to get recorded ... "

Andrew Clarke
Canberra
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Subject: Solti and the Orchestra with Nothing to Hide
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https://drgeraldstein.wordpress.com/2023/09/10/solti-and-the-orchestra-with-nothing-to-hide/
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Subject: Re: "What makes a great recording?"
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On Wed, 20 Sep 2023 22:40:07 -0700, gggg gggg wrote:

> (Y. upload)

Useless links:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=useless+links

.
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From: cdc <cdc@mail.com>
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Subject: IX Mists
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2023 02:52:23 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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Xenakis, Mists (1980)
Jonas Olsson, piano

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCO9BS1nXRY

Masterpiece.
Very interesting the musical notation at 3:30
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From: mccomb@medieval.org (Todd M. McComb)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Subject: Re: Byrd anniversary....
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2023 05:05:55 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Medieval Music & Arts Foundation
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In article <084dea02-214b-47db-9c8b-9f9dcfc50aa0n@googlegroups.com>,
Mandryka <howie.stone01@gmail.com> wrote:
>Every performer, informed or uninformed, ought to come up with
>their own approach. Interpretation is an art.

Well yes, but that doesn't rule out building more on what others
have done, rather than starting from scratch.

.
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Subject: Re: Regretful news re r.m.c.r.'s indefatigable box set reviewer king,
John Fowler
From: Oscar <oscaredwardwilliamson@gmail.com>
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On Tuesday, November 7, 2023 at 10:47:40 AM, herman wrote:

> ten bonus points to Oscar for the use of the word 'indefatigable' in the topic title

And the 139-word disclaimer in ALL CAPS is chopped liver?

In article <bfa21eea-6eb7-491e-ba53-aea5682541ccn@googlegroups.com>,
Andrew Clarke <andrewclarke437@gmail.com> wrote:
>On the other hand, the author of the article, Igor Toronyi-Lalic,
>is an admirer of Stockhausen and Berio and is actively involved
>in the promotion of contemporary music:

Surprising....

>I added a comment to his Spectator article, which will come as no
>surprise to those who have read my comments here:

Well your comment seems reasonable.

Frankly, if classical music had less reputation for authoritarianism,
more young people would probably be interested. "Beasts" might
bring in the celebrity gossip crowd, but that's not music.

.
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From: mccomb@medieval.org (Todd M. McComb)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Subject: Re: Apple to acquire BIS label
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2023 01:13:47 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Medieval Music & Arts Foundation
Message-ID: <udj58b$vll$1@hope.eyrie.org>
References: <bced3943-7f68-4e16-88c2-ad4485179b84n@googlegroups.com> <6442a7f6-283f-44c6-9289-3d350bb01145n@googlegroups.com> <lJ6cncFU6_qMEmf5nZ2dnZfqnPoAAAAA@supernews.com> <udfbr1$3g8jd$1@dont-email.me>
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Xref: rslight rec.music.classical.recordings:58787

In article <udfbr1$3g8jd$1@dont-email.me>,
mINE109 <pianoforte109@yahoo.com> wrote:
>It seems an easy way to provide a deep streaming catalog in
>high-quality sound with existing surround mixes easy to convert
>to Atmos.

I would think that, rather than worry about deleting particular
items from the catalog, one might have to contend with the Bis
catalog being available only via Apple....

Currently, streaming music basically works where there are a few
providers who all have "all" of the same music (well, there's some
variety, but...), versus e.g. in the "television streaming" market,
where many people feel a need to subscribe to multiple services so
as to access a variety of shows. And different services might have
completely disjoint catalogs.

(Note that in the current music streaming situation, the providers
have to compete amongst themselves. Whereas in a hypothetical
situation where they all offer different catalogs, that competition
may be blunted....)

Anyway, my son-in-law works for Apple, and he said today that you
guys have nothing to worry about.... I don't necessarily share
his optimism.

.
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Subject: Re: Critics name their best orchestras and conductors
From: Andrew Clarke <andrewclarke437@gmail.com>
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On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 2:50:49=E2=80=AFPM UTC+10, Pluted Pup wrot=
e:

> Looks like Kensington needs an orchestra of their own!=20
>=20
> Why have only one orchestra?

We had a Choir of Hard Knocks here in Australia, which was probably therape=
utic for those concerned, and which created a lot of sympathy for its membe=
rs, who had been very much down on their luck. How you deal with a problem =
the size of Kensington, Philadelphia, is another matter. Some of the women =
are thin enough to start a modelling career, but that's down to fenatyl and=
other horrible substances, sadly.

Meanwhile, there could be more cheap and maybe temporary accommodation for =
the jobless and homeless. A whole lot of tiny houses would be better than n=
othing. The trouble is, they'd probably be built somewhere outside the city=
limits where there's no work and no shops.

Interesting to compare the Tenderloin with Dharavi in Mumbai. One of the wo=
rld's biggest slums with open sewers and water from standpipes only, but a =
hive of activity. There again, slum clearance schemes have move many of its=
residents to concrete tower blocks on the outskirts, where in financial te=
rms they're worse off than when they lived in Dharavi.

I do find it hard to sympathise with musicians earning $150,000 a year who =
want a bigger slice of the pie, especially in places where the pie isn't gr=
owing any more.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra
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Subject: Re: IX Mists
From: Marc S <marcs12212@gmail.com>
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cdc schrieb am Samstag, 14. Oktober 2023 um 04:52:29 UTC+2:
> Xenakis, Mists (1980)
> Jonas Olsson, piano
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCO9BS1nXRY
>
> Masterpiece.
> Very interesting the musical notation at 3:30

Beautiful; thanks for bringing this to my attention.
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Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
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Subject: Re: OT: Our Global Order Collapsed (we haven't noticed) -- Vlad Vexler
From: Marc S <marcs12212@gmail.com>
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On Tuesday, August 29, 2023 at 6:13:35 PM UTC+2, Todd M. McComb wrote:
> In article <bfa21eea-6eb7-491e...@googlegroups.com>,
> Andrew Clarke <andrewc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On the other hand, the author of the article, Igor Toronyi-Lalic,
> >is an admirer of Stockhausen and Berio and is actively involved
> >in the promotion of contemporary music:
> Surprising....
> >
So why does this sound as if he is pushing moonshine alcohol or something?

I briefly checked his bio at the Spectator and it looks like he is a critic and writes about what happens to get staged. If you're a critic and you write a positive review of a performance of a piece of music recently composed, you're not really "actively promoting" it. You're just saying you liked the concert.
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Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
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Subject: Re: WAYLTL - September 2023
From: Andrew Clarke <andrewclarke437@gmail.com>
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On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 4:02:42 AM UTC+10, Notsure01 wrote:

>I just don't know the point
> of having the Romans dressed as soldiers from the Boer wars - looks like
> the extras in "Zulu"! Seems that only excerpts are available on YT:
> https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLlEOtOM9_dCnkpqgq8KRRDkfnwAjKILAj
>

The director is virtue-signalling, as directors tend to do. The Roman occupation of Egypt was colonialism. The British occupation of southern Africa was colonialism. Just as bad. Geddit?

This production, plus a good deal more Handel and other fine productions, many bereft of virtue-signalling are available on Glyndebourne's streaming site:

<https://www.glyndebourne.com/encore/>

It is the only streaming service on the planet that requires subscribers to wear evening dress while watching the performances.

Meanwhile, I'm listening to my birthday present, the four double string quartets and two of the string quintets of Louis Spohr. Beautifully polished and engaging music, Mendelssohn with a tinge of Beethoven.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra
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Subject: Re: Influences
From: cheregi <elirkerry@gmail.com>
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On Tuesday, September 19, 2023 at 9:00:13 PM UTC+8, sci.space wrote:
> While listening to the internet radio station Positively Baroque, I heard Buxtehude's Ciconia in e minor. I was struck with how similar it sounds to sections of Glass's Koyaanisqatsi sound track.
>
> Aside from obvious theft as in "Stranger in Paradise" and variations on a theme are there any serious works which seem influenced by an earlier work?

my understanding is that the valorization of some kind of pure originality (as if such a thing were possible) in western classical composition is a relatively recent phenomenon - bach and mozart and all the rest relentlessly imitated (plagiarized?) their predecessors, their contemporaries, and their own earlier works - and without any secrecy or shame, it was totally unremarkable. this situation started to change with beethoven's generation.
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cdc schrieb am Samstag, 14. Oktober 2023 um 04:52:29 UTC+2:
> Xenakis, Mists (1980)
> Jonas Olsson, piano
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCO9BS1nXRY
>
> Masterpiece.
> Very interesting the musical notation at 3:30

Beautiful; thanks for bringing this to my attention.

*Just came back from jogging and it seems like some butthurt lowlife(s) flagged my post - the deleted one above this - for thanking you. Just love getting under the skin of the people here, haha
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Subject: Re: OT: Our Global Order Collapsed (we haven't noticed) -- Vlad Vexler
From: Marc S <marcs12212@gmail.com>
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Marc S schrieb am Freitag, 3. November 2023 um 07:02:43 UTC+1:
> raymond....@gmail.com schrieb am Donnerstag, 2. November 2023 um 23:14:14 UTC+1:
> > On Friday, 3 November 2023 at 01:08:38 UTC+11, Marc S wrote:
> > > Gerard schrieb am Donnerstag, 2. November 2023 um 14:35:57 UTC+1:
> > > > Op woensdag 1 november 2023 om 09:09:38 UTC+1 schreef Herman:
> > > > > This is a newsgroup about music and recordings.
> > > > >
> > > > > Things were really great during your absence.
> > > > Exactly.
> > > Then why did you post antisemitic remarks? Why did you make posts about Trump?
> > >
> > For the same reason you write about posters here, except that Trump is a real 100% moron, worshipped by real 100% morons.
> You see, I am not worhsipping him. That's just how your delusional, manichean mind tries to make it out to be - you are just overwhelmed by a complex reality and unable to make sense of it in any meaningful way; so you reduce it to primitive formulas: Trump/Right = Bad, Ray/Left = Good. It's you who gets off on Trump-Hatred just to feel a little bit of self-worth..

In article <0c69201e-ff4f-4349-a115-2c6d1197dc76n@googlegroups.com>,
Herman <herstx@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Tuesday, August 29, 2023 at 6:13:35 PM UTC+2, Todd M. McComb wrote:
>> In article <bfa21eea-6eb7-491e...@googlegroups.com>,
>> Andrew Clarke <andrewc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >On the other hand, the author of the article, Igor Toronyi-Lalic,
>> >is an admirer of Stockhausen and Berio and is actively involved
>> >in the promotion of contemporary music:
>> Surprising....
>So why does this sound as if he is pushing moonshine alcohol or
>something?

His views sound very conservative, so it surprised me that he might
listen to this later music at all! But maybe he simply likes to
provoke.

.
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Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Subject: Re: Apple to acquire BIS label
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On Sep 8, 2023 at 2:59:11 AM EDT, "Herman" <herstx@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Thursday, September 7, 2023 at 4:30:18 PM UTC+2, Notsure01 wrote:
>>
>>>
>> I hope they do - the only cost for Apple could be the disk space -
>
> Obviously that is one of the first things any manager type eliminates.
>
> Cloud thinkers don't want slow-moving physical inventory.

You're not thinking Apple-think.

Apple wanted BIS to add prestige to its fledgling Apple Classical music
streaming, for which it will probably make the entire catalog available, but
not on CD. Apple doesn't believe in CDs. They much prefer streaming.

-Owen
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Subject: Re: Critics name their best orchestras and conductors
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On Friday, 22 September 2023 at 05:50:49 UTC+1, Pluted Pup wrote:
>> Looks like Kensington needs an orchestra of their own!
>
> Why have only one orchestra?

If you mean Kensington London, it does have an orchestra and I used to play bass in it at one time.
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@ 99
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Subject: Re: Byrd anniversary....
From: Mandryka <howie.stone01@gmail.com>
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On Friday, November 3, 2023 at 5:06:01=E2=80=AFAM UTC, Todd M. McComb wrote=
: > In article <084dea02-214b-47db...@googlegroups.com>,
> Mandryka <howie....@gmail.com> wrote:=20
> >Every performer, informed or uninformed, ought to come up with=20
> >their own approach. Interpretation is an art.
> Well yes, but that doesn't rule out building more on what others=20
> have done, rather than starting from scratch.

Give me a concrete example. Did Cortot=E2=80=99s pupils build on what Corto=
t had done when they played Chopin? I don=E2=80=99t hear it. Did anyone bu=
ild on what Furtwangler did?

The only exceptions I can think of right now are -=20

1. Gould=E2=80=99s tempo in the first (few) Goldberg variations=20

2. Schnabel=E2=80=99s tempo in the first few variations of Beethoven op 111=
/ii

3. Fischer-Dieskau=E2=80=99s extreme studied singing style=20

4. The short lived fashion for strict and literal performances - presumably=
originating with Toscanini and Walcha

All four are arguably a bad thing.=20
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Subject: Re: Regretful news re r.m.c.r.'s indefatigable box set reviewer king, John Fowler
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On 8/29/2023 8:15 AM, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 29, 2023 at 6:51:48 AM UTC+10, Todd M. McComb wrote:
>> In article <c7d6128f-1957-474f...@googlegroups.com>,
>> Andrew Clarke <andrewc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> "Luckily we all had the incredible Technicolor recordings by the
>>> infamous mid-century monsters to retreat to ...."
>>
>> Well I don't relate to this guy one iota. I could totally do without
>> hearing anything from this so-called "retreat" ever again. I prefer
>> more recent readings.
>
> It is interesting to compare the outrage brought down on Ji/eggy's head with a certain nostalgia for the days of Fritz Reiner and George Szell , and we remember that mental cruelty can be much more severe in its consequences than physical cruelty.
>
> On the other hand, the author of the article, Igor Toronyi-Lalic, is an admirer of Stockhausen and Berio and is actively involved in the promotion of contemporary music:
>
> < https://theartsdesk.com/users/igortoronyilalic >
>
> I added a comment to his Spectator article, which will come as no surprise to those who have read my comments here:
>
> "We now have the situation where orchestra management feels that it must pay an absolute fortune to a conductor, not to mention a bevy of guest conductors, to the extent that many famous orchestras with famously large endowments, are now losing money hand over fist. Given that attendances are down compared to pre-Covid seasons, and that local wealth in places like Baltimore and Philadelphia tends to donate money to rather more urgent causes than the local "symphony", the problem is not going to go away. Nor can the Big Beast orchestras rely on big recording contracts any more.
> Maybe the future lies with people like Jos van Immerseel or F-X Roth or John Wilson who are capable of creating new ensembles and either shedding new light on old repertoire or exploring less familiar material. They also seem to get recorded ... "
>
> Andrew Clarke
> Canberra

If paying big bucks for a conductor will bankrupt an orchestra why would they continue to slit their own throats? Something doesn't make sense. One answer is that management feels a star conductor will increase private donations (or even local government (assuming there is such a thing) and at least partially offset the cost. If not, you will see a decline in conductor salaries and orchestras shutting down. IT just has to be. It seems to me the root problem is a secular decline in demand for classical music. In Lenny's day, everyone at least knew who he was. Today, most young people into their 20's probably never heard of him. Unless there is a massive increase in public (i.e, government), it's hard to see how every decent sized city will afford to have an orchestra.
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From: "Chris J." <christophjohansen@mailservice.invalid>
Subject: Re: WAYLTL - September 2023
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On 9 Sep 2023 Notsure01 wrote:

> I confess that I'm not at all familiar with any vocal works - it would
> be great if Chris could recommend some...

....recordings he has heard.

A few:

Der Tod Jesu TWV 5:6; Rémy. CPO.
Brockes Passion TWV 5:2; Jacobs, Harmonia Mundi.
Hamburgische Kapitänsmusik 1755 TWV 15:20; Schneider, CPO.
Die Auferstehung und Himmelfahrt Jesu TWV 6:6; Max, Capriccio.
Der Tag des Gerichts TWV 6:8; Max, Capriccio.
Das befreite Israel TWV 6:5; Max, CPO.
Cornett-Kantaten TWV 1: 259, 459, 840; Rémy, CPO.
Ino TWV 20:41 (a secular cantata); Schneider, DHM/Sony.

Chris

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Subject: Re: Influences
From: Herman <herstx@yahoo.com>
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On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 9:49:37=E2=80=AFAM UTC+2, cheregi wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 19, 2023 at 9:00:13=E2=80=AFPM UTC+8, sci.space wro=
te:=20
> > While listening to the internet radio station Positively Baroque, I hea=
rd Buxtehude's Ciconia in e minor. I was struck with how similar it sounds =
to sections of Glass's Koyaanisqatsi sound track.=20
> >=20
> > Aside from obvious theft as in "Stranger in Paradise" and variations on=
a theme are there any serious works which seem influenced by an earlier wo=
rk?
> my understanding is that the valorization of some kind of pure originalit=
y (as if such a thing were possible) in western classical composition is a =
relatively recent phenomenon - bach and mozart and all the rest relentlessl=
y imitated (plagiarized?) their predecessors, their contemporaries, and the=
ir own earlier works - and without any secrecy or shame, it was totally unr=
emarkable. this situation started to change with beethoven's generation.

Not sure if this was the case with Mozart, who was pushing the new-new-new =
envelope all the time.
However, part of the problem is we often do not know everything about the m=
usical environment our canonical composers worked in. For instance, Schuman=
n much admired Jan Kalliwoda, whom no one listens to anymore. And Kalliwoda=
we know, but there are waaayy more composers we don't know anything about,=
and who may or may not have contributed to the ideas and sounds of the can=
onical composers without us knowing so.
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Subject: Re: RIP Menahem Pressler,
From: Herman <herstx@yahoo.com>
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He died five months ago, May 6.
You beat the ever late Premise Checker to it.
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Subject: Re: WAYLTL - November 2023
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On Tuesday, August 29, 2023 at 9:10:15 PM UTC+2, Frank Berger wrote:

> In Lenny's day, everyone at least knew who he was. Today, most young people into their 20's probably never heard of him.

Reason why is "Lenny" died before these people were born.
Perhaps they've heard of the Dude or Yuja Wang.
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Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2023 12:46:19 -0700
From: Pluted Pup <plutedpup@outlook.com>
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Subject: Re: Apple to acquire BIS label
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
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On Sat, 09 Sep 2023 20:13:02 -0700, Owen Hartnett wrote:

> On Sep 8, 2023 at 2:59:11 AM EDT, "Herman"<herstx@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On Thursday, September 7, 2023 at 4:30:18???PM UTC+2, Notsure01 wrote:
> > >
> > > I hope they do - the only cost for Apple could be the disk space -
> >
> > Obviously that is one of the first things any manager type eliminates.
> >
> > Cloud thinkers don't want slow-moving physical inventory.
>
> You're not thinking Apple-think.
>
> Apple wanted BIS to add prestige to its fledgling Apple Classical music
> streaming, for which it will probably make the entire catalog available, but
> not on CD. Apple doesn't believe in CDs. They much prefer streaming.

So you are agreeing with him. Apple hates CDs. Now
what does "buying BIS" mean in these uninformative news
articles? Buying the BIS library or buying BIS? Cause if
Apple bought BIS that means Apple would delete the entire
catalog.

.
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Subject: Re: Dueling Toscanini BBC sets
From: Luciano Crivello <crllcn53@gmail.com>
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Il giorno sabato 5 gennaio 2013 alle 21:53:49 UTC+1 Matthew B. Tepper ha scritto:
> West Hill Radio Archives and EMI have two new releases (well, the WHRA
> appears to have come out a couple of months ago, while the EMI is supposed
> to come out due next month) with a fair amount of overlap; exactly how
> much, I don't know, but it depends on which of two performances of the same
> work is used in each. The boxes have different "missions," which one of
> them appears to fulfill, while the other one fails its own mission. Guess
> which one is the fails. I'll give you a hint: it rhymes with Bee Bem Bye.
>
> WHRA is entitled, "Toscanini in London: The Legendary 1935 Recordings,"
> and is said to contain all of the works the Maestro performed, with HMV's
> machines spinning away, in June of that year. The big news here is
> threefold, as it contains the 14 June Beethoven 7th (from the 1980-ish
> Seraphim LP boxed set which was its first official issue, and only on CD
> from the crap label Grammofono 2000), the Geminiani Concerto Grosso Op. 3,
> #2 (which I have wanted to hear ever since I read about it in the second
> edition of Robert C. Marsh's book, neither edition of which has yet been
> unpacked, meaning they must still be in the box with most of my pocket
> scores), and, as a bonus, Beethoven's "Die Geschöpfe des Prometheus"
> Overture, from a 1939 recording session and previously available only in
> that Seraphim LP set and the badly-transferred Grammofono CD.
>
> The EMI issue does not confine itself to 1935, of course. First of all, it
> appears to contain all of the long-ago-commercially-issued HMV items, such
> as Beethoven 1, 4, and 6, along with various overtures and other shorter
> works. Whose transfer they are using for these, I do not know. Remember
> that BMG, ahem, "appropriated" Mark Obert-Thorn's without credit, for their
> big Toscanini box. Is it too much to hope for that they have ordered a new
> remastering? Oh, wait, it's EMI, so they probably haven't. They also
> include the various other items, such as Brahms 2nd, Sibelius 2nd, and
> various Elgar, Debussy and Wagner which were issued on CD in the (I think)
> '90s. They include a Beethoven 7th (which I'm not sure, but possibly the
> same June 14 that WHRA has) and the "Prometheus."
>
> EMI does NOT include Beethoven's Missa Solemnis, Mozart's "Haffner," or
> Cherubini's "Anacréon" Overture (both issued by BBC Legends along with the
> Beethoven 7th from June 12), nor the Verdi Requiem (on Testament), nor the
> Beethoven 9th (on Music and Arts, and truly wonderful, as I've said here),
> but then, they may not own any of them. Disappointingly, they do NOT
> include the Geminiani, which I believe they DO own.
>
> Since EMI doesn't bear a title confining its purview to the BBC recordings,
> it is a shame they do not include the three 1951 La Scala items: the Acts
> I and III preludes to "La Traviata," and "Les vępres siciliennes" Overture.
> (EMI had a two-volume set of La Scala recordings, each containing three
> CDs, and one of which had the "Traviata" Act III and the other the
> "Vępres" Overture; Guild has issued both of the "Traviata" Preludes.)
>
> Quality of the masterings aside, then, EMI aims at completeness and misses,
> by omitting the Geminiani and the La Scala items. I'll be buying WHRA at
> least to hear the one never-released (to my knowledge) item, and to support
> their valuable work; besides, I suspect they may wind up having the better
> remasterings. The EMI set *might* be worth getting just in order to
> consolidate all of those single CDs they once let out by dribs and drabs.
> As I recall, there was a problem with one item, one of the "Parsifal"
> excerpts I think, which was missing some music; this was later corrected.
> I do hope they have managed to avoid that error this time, but it's EMI, so
> you can't be confident.
>
> If only, just for ONCE, one of the compilers of these things would say,
> "Since we're going to call this 'complete,' why don't we do a minimum
> amount of research and actually ASK somebody who can tell us what has to be
> included?" Heck, I would have done it for them happily, and all I'd have
> asked was one copy of the finished product and my name listed in the
> booklet giving me credit for my research. But no, they didn't ask, and so
> (as always) the claim of "completeness" is a lie.
>
> --
> Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!!
> Read about "Proty" here: http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/proty.html
> To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
> Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of my employers.
Good morning to all the people. I'm Luciano Crivello and you can see all my videos uploaded on youtube about Toscanini broadcasts. I write to Ask to Mr Tepper, if he can indicate to me how to find the analysis of Dermot Gault about the Bruckner's Seventh conducted by Toscanini in 1935. His analysis was made by listening to the recording at the Public Library of New York. Can Mr. Tepper or someone else give me these informations. Thanks and regards. Luciano Crivello
.
Click here to read the complete article

On Tuesday, 29 August 2023 at 20:20:51 UTC+1, Herman wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 29, 2023 at 9:10:15 PM UTC+2, Frank Berger wrote:
>
> > In Lenny's day, everyone at least knew who he was. Today, most young people into their 20's probably never heard of him.
> Reason why is "Lenny" died before these people were born.
> Perhaps they've heard of the Dude or Yuja Wang.

Yes, probably.

I imagine audiences are just as much drawn by the repertoire and the orchestra when it comes to buying tickets these days.

I have hardly heard of any of the newer conductors myself, but I've been off the scene for a while.
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Subject: Early Music America's radical politics
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"The annual conference of Early Music America this October is not
about music, as it used to be. All the "workshops" are about
social agendas instead. One is called "Antiracism and Gender
Justice in Early Music". Another is described as "highlighting
historically underrepresented queer figures in classical music".
Apparently it is now necessary to discover "queer" composers and
performers as well as to determine race and sex. (Sexual
orientation is not easy to determine for composers of early
music.)"

from American Record Guide, Oct / Nov 2023 page 7

There's also the "Casting the Castrati Voice: Creating Safe Spaces
for the Trans & Non-Binary Community within Early Opera"

.
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On 9/22/2023 3:33 AM, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 2:50:49 PM UTC+10, Pluted Pup wrote:
>
>> Looks like Kensington needs an orchestra of their own!
>>
>> Why have only one orchestra?
>
> We had a Choir of Hard Knocks here in Australia, which was probably therapeutic for those concerned, and which created a lot of sympathy for its members, who had been very much down on their luck. How you deal with a problem the size of Kensington, Philadelphia, is another matter. Some of the women are thin enough to start a modelling career, but that's down to fenatyl and other horrible substances, sadly.
>
> Meanwhile, there could be more cheap and maybe temporary accommodation for the jobless and homeless. A whole lot of tiny houses would be better than nothing. The trouble is, they'd probably be built somewhere outside the city limits where there's no work and no shops.
>
> Interesting to compare the Tenderloin with Dharavi in Mumbai. One of the world's biggest slums with open sewers and water from standpipes only, but a hive of activity. There again, slum clearance schemes have move many of its residents to concrete tower blocks on the outskirts, where in financial terms they're worse off than when they lived in Dharavi.
>
> I do find it hard to sympathise with musicians earning $150,000 a year who want a bigger slice of the pie, especially in places where the pie isn't growing any more.
>
> Andrew Clarke
> Canberra

I had several conversations with a homeless guy in Dallas who would sometimes wander by when I was outside work waiting for a ride. To paraphrase him, "You know, we're not all bums....we have doctors and lawyers and other educated people (referring to the homeless)." He went on to clarify that virtually all the homeless were alcoholics, drug users or mentally challenged. If that is generally accurate, I'm not sure locating tiny little homes for the homeless near jobs would matter. They should be located far from anything else (me, especially) and delivered food, liquor and drugs daily (paid for with private donations, of course).
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https://youtu.be/R7x8_6TE8JI?si=-jSf9cVAeBwstLBG
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Vivica Genaux, A Tribute to Faustina Bordoni, with arias by Hasse and
Handel composed for the famed singer who became Hasse's wife.
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