This is pretty interesting and reminds me how bad casting good be at times in the old days.

https://youtu.be/mH3IcAPggAE?si=xSrpRhGbpDS-k2we

--
Brian

On Friday, December 15, 2023 at 3:40:03 PM UTC-7, Brian Smith wrote:
> This is pretty interesting and reminds me how bad casting good be at times in the old days.
>
> https://youtu.be/mH3IcAPggAE?si=xSrpRhGbpDS-k2we
>
> --
> Brian

*could be*

--
Brian

Brian Smith wrote:

> https://youtu.be/mH3IcAPggAE?si=xSrpRhGbpDS-k2we

Everything, including Survivor, was a bit more Wild West in
these days :)

--
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

On Friday, December 15, 2023 at 2:40:03 PM UTC-8, Brian Smith wrote:
> This is pretty interesting and reminds me how bad casting good be at times in the old days.
>
> https://youtu.be/mH3IcAPggAE?si=xSrpRhGbpDS-k2we

Did this guy actually watch S09, or does he just have a bad memory? Scout and Twyla were more responsible for booting
Julie Berry than Chris was. The end game of this season was quite complex, and did not turn on Chris "betraying" his
"best friend in the game".

As for Heidik, I have no doubt that he wasn't Probst's kind of guy. But he was a shrewd player who was fortunate to be in
a game with probably the worst cast of doofuses ever assembled. He didn't particularly like the game that he won so easily,
and, IMO, that was what was at the root of Probst's "issues" with Heidik.

And what were the ears of corn for? Were they supposed to make the viewers snigger about the brief period of time that Heidik
worked in the adult film industry? Well, Ozzy did the same sort of work when he was younger but it is hardly ever mentioned by
people who follow the show. That's because what Ozzy did to pay the bills twenty five years ago really doesn't matter anymore.
The same should go for Heidik IMO.

The other three guys mentioned in the video were all first class dicks, although JFP had a sort of cult following among some of
the regulars on this newsgroup back in the day.

On Monday, December 18, 2023 at 5:52:38 PM UTC-7, zeppo wrote:
> On Friday, December 15, 2023 at 2:40:03 PM UTC-8, Brian Smith wrote:
> > This is pretty interesting and reminds me how bad casting good be at times in the old days.
> >
> > https://youtu.be/mH3IcAPggAE?si=xSrpRhGbpDS-k2we
> Did this guy actually watch S09, or does he just have a bad memory? Scout and Twyla were more responsible for booting
> Julie Berry than Chris was. The end game of this season was quite complex, and did not turn on Chris "betraying" his
> "best friend in the game".

Chris never should have won S9. IIRC, the girls had a huge numerical advantage but self-destructed. It did benefit Twyla because otherwise, I doubt she would have got to then and won $100K.

> As for Heidik, I have no doubt that he wasn't Probst's kind of guy. But he was a shrewd player who was fortunate to be in
> a game with probably the worst cast of doofuses ever assembled. He didn't particularly like the game that he won so easily,
> and, IMO, that was what was at the root of Probst's "issues" with Heidik.

That and the bad press from casting not digging deeper into the players pasts. I agree with you concerning the cast. Possibly the least likable cast ever.
>
> And what were the ears of corn for? Were they supposed to make the viewers snigger about the brief period of time that Heidik
> worked in the adult film industry? Well, Ozzy did the same sort of work when he was younger but it is hardly ever mentioned by
> people who follow the show. That's because what Ozzy did to pay the bills twenty five years ago really doesn't matter anymore.
> The same should go for Heidik IMO.

Yes, the corn was for porn! Concerning Ozzy, people don't need to bring up his porn past given he's on OnlyFans now.

> The other three guys mentioned in the video were all first class dicks, although JFP had a sort of cult following among some of
> the regulars on this newsgroup back in the day.

I've always considered JFP to be more an annoying asshole than anything else.

I was somewhat surprised the video didn't mention Russell Hantz.

--
Brian

On Monday, December 18, 2023 at 7:36:40 PM UTC-8, Brian Smith wrote:

> Chris never should have won S9. IIRC, the girls had a huge numerical advantage but self-destructed. It did benefit Twyla because otherwise, I doubt she would have got to then and won $100K.

S9 was one of the older seasons that I, for some reason, remember remarkably well. Up until after the merge, it was actually pretty boring
because it appeared that all the men would get pagonged, after which some combination of Ami, Julie, or Eliza would find their way into the
F2. IOW, Scout and Twyla were not seen as competitive players. The key player down the stretch was Eliza Orlins who joined Scout and Twyla
in switching sides at the crucial F7 vote. Given that there were no hidden advantages in those days, Julie and Ami were in deep trouble unless
they could either win immunity, or convince Eliza to switch sides again and vote out Chris. Neither happened. IMO, the last several episodes in
S9 contained some of the most interesting and unpredictable strategic play in Survivor history.

> Yes, the corn was for porn! Concerning Ozzy, people don't need to bring up his porn past given he's on OnlyFans now.

I had no idea what OnlyFans is, so I did some research. Yuck!

> I've always considered JFP to be more an annoying asshole than anything else.

I agree.
> I was somewhat surprised the video didn't mention Russell Hantz.

Hantz was a smart player who changed how Survivor was played after S19. He is now viewed as some sort of an "uber villain", an
image which he has done little over the years to deny despite the fact that the label is inaccurate.

On Tuesday, December 19, 2023 at 5:48:29 PM UTC-7, zeppo wrote:
> On Monday, December 18, 2023 at 7:36:40 PM UTC-8, Brian Smith wrote:
>
> > Chris never should have won S9. IIRC, the girls had a huge numerical advantage but self-destructed. It did benefit Twyla because otherwise, I doubt she would have got to then and won $100K.
> S9 was one of the older seasons that I, for some reason, remember remarkably well. Up until after the merge, it was actually pretty boring
> because it appeared that all the men would get pagonged, after which some combination of Ami, Julie, or Eliza would find their way into the
> F2. IOW, Scout and Twyla were not seen as competitive players. The key player down the stretch was Eliza Orlins who joined Scout and Twyla
> in switching sides at the crucial F7 vote. Given that there were no hidden advantages in those days, Julie and Ami were in deep trouble unless
> they could either win immunity, or convince Eliza to switch sides again and vote out Chris. Neither happened. IMO, the last several episodes in
> S9 contained some of the most interesting and unpredictable strategic play in Survivor history.

S9 was one of the few seasons where the women dominated but they couldn't stick together a bit longer to get the last guy out. Kim keeping her crew on the same page for the most part makes her win even more impressive.

No hidden advantages in the early seasons forced the players to be a lot more strategic. I miss that because now too much time is spent looking for advantages and too many advantages can wipe out a good strategic game. They might have change "Out Wit" to "Out Luck."

> > Yes, the corn was for porn! Concerning Ozzy, people don't need to bring up his porn past given he's on OnlyFans now.
> I had no idea what OnlyFans is, so I did some research. Yuck!

Big money on OnlyFans!

> > I was somewhat surprised the video didn't mention Russell Hantz.
> Hantz was a smart player who changed how Survivor was played after S19. He is now viewed as some sort of an "uber villain", an
> image which he has done little over the years to deny despite the fact that the label is inaccurate.

Hantz was smart the first two times he played but not smart enough after that to change up his game. Then he started doing crazy shit that pissed off Jeff because it reflected badly on the show and that was the end of the gravy train for Hantz. Brandon could have had a longer Survivor career as well if he had sought help for his issues.

--
Brian

Brian Smith wrote:

> No hidden advantages in the early seasons forced the players
> to be a lot more strategic. I miss that because now too much
> time is spent looking for advantages and too many advantages
> can wipe out a good strategic game. They might have change
> "Out Wit" to "Out Luck."

Some creative strategy, to be fair, was created around the
advantages as well. Like putting together fake ones, giving
them away to players in the opposite tribe (backfired),
planting fake ones for others to find ... but yes, in general
I think it reduces the strategic creativity of the players.

Especially if there are a lot of advantages because then it
feels like all bets are off because the game becomes _too_
unpredictable, not even veteran players can keep track of it.

Idols (one per tribe) and just a few other advantages and
twists per season is enough.

And whoever acquires them should not stumble upon it, they
should be difficult to get.

--
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

On Tuesday, December 19, 2023 at 7:06:22 PM UTC-7, Emanuel Berg wrote:
> Brian Smith wrote:
>
> > No hidden advantages in the early seasons forced the players
> > to be a lot more strategic. I miss that because now too much
> > time is spent looking for advantages and too many advantages
> > can wipe out a good strategic game. They might have change
> > "Out Wit" to "Out Luck."
> Some creative strategy, to be fair, was created around the
> advantages as well. Like putting together fake ones, giving
> them away to players in the opposite tribe (backfired),
> planting fake ones for others to find ... but yes, in general
> I think it reduces the strategic creativity of the players.

There's no question that extra advantages have resulted in some iconic moments. But they've also resulted in bullshit like Cirie getting booted even though there were no votes cast against her.

>
> Especially if there are a lot of advantages because then it
> feels like all bets are off because the game becomes _too_
> unpredictable, not even veteran players can keep track of it.

Viewers can't keep track either.

> Idols (one per tribe) and just a few other advantages and
> twists per season is enough.

Sounds good to me.

> And whoever acquires them should not stumble upon it, they
> should be difficult to get.

Yes. Best case would be for people to have to earn the bonus powers.

--
Brian

On Wed, 20 Dec 2023 03:06:19 +0100, Emanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org>
wrote:

>And whoever acquires them should not stumble upon it, they
>should be difficult to get.

I did like the one where they printed off the hint, cut it
horizontally across the hint and posted it as unknown symbols in the
middle of the camp and let the poor guy find the other half then have
to figure out what to do with it.

The Horny Goat wrote:

>> And whoever acquires them should not stumble upon it, they
>> should be difficult to get.
>
> I did like the one where they printed off the hint, cut it
> horizontally across the hint and posted it as unknown
> symbols in the middle of the camp and let the poor guy find
> the other half then have to figure out what to do with it.

Stuff like that, yes.

--
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal