Tonight's post from the past concerns Regeneration Limits, a topic that
has been close to the Hearts of some here-abouts, recently!!

Quote from 'Olton' in the 'Favourite Dr Who' thread of June 1991
In "Nightmare of Eden," the Doctor says something about timelords having
125 lives, and that he had had about 190. This clearly doesn't "jive"
with other established facts, unless you want to think that he means
that their lifespan is 125 times the length of a human's. That's
possible, but the context that he uses it in implies 125 regenerations.
End Quote

So it would seem that Chris Chibnall was not the first to suggest that
there had been many re-generations PRIOR to Hartnell (over and above the
"The Brain of Morbius" confusion).

Discuss.
--
Daniel

On 19/04/2024 13:13, Daniel70 wrote:
> Tonight's post from the past concerns Regeneration Limits, a topic that
> has been close to the Hearts of some here-abouts, recently!!
>
> Quote from 'Olton' in the 'Favourite Dr Who' thread of June 1991
> In "Nightmare of Eden," the Doctor says something about timelords having
> 125 lives, and that he had had about 190. This clearly doesn't "jive"
> with other established facts, unless you want to think that he means
> that their lifespan is 125 times the length of a human's. That's
> possible, but the context that he uses it in implies 125 regenerations.
> End Quote
>
> So it would seem that Chris Chibnall was not the first to suggest that
> there had been many re-generations PRIOR to Hartnell (over and above the
> "The Brain of Morbius" confusion).
>
> Discuss.

The Deadly Assassin which was 3 series earlier firmly establishes a
limit of 12 regenerations and that is repeated by both the Doctor and
the Master in The Keeper of Traken, the 4th Doctor's penultimate story.

Maybe he was talking about going undercover 190 times or on 190
different planets or different historical periods.

--
The True Doctor https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCngrZwoS0n21IRcXpKO79Lw

"To be woke is to be uninformed which is exactly the opposite of what it
stands for." -William Shatner

The True Doctor wrote:

> On 19/04/2024 13:13, Daniel70 wrote:
> >
> > So it would seem that Chris Chibnall was not the first to
> > suggest that there had been many re-generations PRIOR to
> > Hartnell (over and above the "The Brain of Morbius"
>
> The Deadly Assassin which was 3 series earlier firmly
> establishes a limit of 12 regenerations and that is repeated
> by both the Doctor and the Master in The Keeper of Traken, the
> 4th Doctor's penultimate story.

Which would be fine and dandy as Doctor Who gospel if we wasn't
on the 15th Doctor... so where is that "limit" again?

Which just proves that Doctor Who is not consistent with
itself... and it's whatever the Executive Producer of the day
wants that counts!

Daniel70 wrote:

> Tonight's post from the past concerns Regeneration Limits, a
> topic that has been close to the Hearts of some here-abouts,
> recently!!
>
> Quote from 'Olton' in the 'Favourite Dr Who' thread of June
> 1991 In "Nightmare of Eden," the Doctor says something about
> timelords having 125 lives, and that he had had about 190.
> This clearly doesn't "jive" with other established facts,
> unless you want to think that he means that their lifespan is
> 125 times the length of a human's. That's possible, but the
> context that he uses it in implies 125 regenerations. End
> Quote
>
> So it would seem that Chris Chibnall was not the first to
> suggest that there had been many re-generations PRIOR to
> Hartnell (over and above the "The Brain of Morbius" confusion).

Believe it or not it was talked about by the show's Producers in
the 1960's, going back to the original "The Power of the Daleks"
script. Which originally included Patrick Troughton's Doctor
make a reference to a previous regeneration.

In article <uvtn5t$30593$1@dont-email.me>,
Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>Tonight's post from the past concerns Regeneration Limits, a topic that
>has been close to the Hearts of some here-abouts, recently!!
>
>Quote from 'Olton' in the 'Favourite Dr Who' thread of June 1991
>In "Nightmare of Eden," the Doctor says something about timelords having
>125 lives, and that he had had about 190. This clearly doesn't "jive"
>with other established facts, unless you want to think that he means
>that their lifespan is 125 times the length of a human's. That's
>possible, but the context that he uses it in implies 125 regenerations.
>End Quote
>
>So it would seem that Chris Chibnall was not the first to suggest that
>there had been many re-generations PRIOR to Hartnell (over and above the
>"The Brain of Morbius" confusion).

Flame war!!!

>
>Discuss.
>--
>Daniel

--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen
What worth the power of law that won't stop lawlessness? -unknown

In article <uvtoin$30ajm$1@dont-email.me>,
The True Doctor <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>On 19/04/2024 13:13, Daniel70 wrote:
>> Tonight's post from the past concerns Regeneration Limits, a topic that
>> has been close to the Hearts of some here-abouts, recently!!
>>
>> Quote from 'Olton' in the 'Favourite Dr Who' thread of June 1991
>> In "Nightmare of Eden," the Doctor says something about timelords having
>> 125 lives, and that he had had about 190. This clearly doesn't "jive"
>> with other established facts, unless you want to think that he means
>> that their lifespan is 125 times the length of a human's. That's
>> possible, but the context that he uses it in implies 125 regenerations.
>> End Quote
>>
>> So it would seem that Chris Chibnall was not the first to suggest that
>> there had been many re-generations PRIOR to Hartnell (over and above the
>> "The Brain of Morbius" confusion).
>>
>> Discuss.
>
>The Deadly Assassin which was 3 series earlier firmly establishes a
>limit of 12 regenerations and that is repeated by both the Doctor and
>the Master in The Keeper of Traken, the 4th Doctor's penultimate story.
>
>Maybe he was talking about going undercover 190 times or on 190
>different planets or different historical periods.
>

Good facts AGA!

>--
>The True Doctor https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCngrZwoS0n21IRcXpKO79Lw
>
>"To be woke is to be uninformed which is exactly the opposite of what it
>stands for." -William Shatner
>

--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen
What worth the power of law that won't stop lawlessness? -unknown

In article <xn0okrduwahur70001@post.eweka.nl>,
Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
>The True Doctor wrote:
>
>> On 19/04/2024 13:13, Daniel70 wrote:
>> >
>> > So it would seem that Chris Chibnall was not the first to
>> > suggest that there had been many re-generations PRIOR to
>> > Hartnell (over and above the "The Brain of Morbius"
>>
>> The Deadly Assassin which was 3 series earlier firmly
>> establishes a limit of 12 regenerations and that is repeated
>> by both the Doctor and the Master in The Keeper of Traken, the
>> 4th Doctor's penultimate story.
>
>Which would be fine and dandy as Doctor Who gospel if we wasn't
>on the 15th Doctor... so where is that "limit" again?
>
>Which just proves that Doctor Who is not consistent with
>itself... and it's whatever the Executive Producer of the day
>wants that counts!

REcall Time and the Doctor for this one!
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen
What worth the power of law that won't stop lawlessness? -unknown

In article <xn0okrdz7ai0zsi002@post.eweka.nl>,
Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
>Daniel70 wrote:
>
>> Tonight's post from the past concerns Regeneration Limits, a
>> topic that has been close to the Hearts of some here-abouts,
>> recently!!
>>
>> Quote from 'Olton' in the 'Favourite Dr Who' thread of June
>> 1991 In "Nightmare of Eden," the Doctor says something about
>> timelords having 125 lives, and that he had had about 190.
>> This clearly doesn't "jive" with other established facts,
>> unless you want to think that he means that their lifespan is
>> 125 times the length of a human's. That's possible, but the
>> context that he uses it in implies 125 regenerations. End
>> Quote
>>
>> So it would seem that Chris Chibnall was not the first to
>> suggest that there had been many re-generations PRIOR to
>> Hartnell (over and above the "The Brain of Morbius" confusion).
>
>Believe it or not it was talked about by the show's Producers in
>the 1960's, going back to the original "The Power of the Daleks"
>script. Which originally included Patrick Troughton's Doctor
>make a reference to a previous regeneration.

That should be in the archives!
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen
What worth the power of law that won't stop lawlessness? -unknown

The Doctor wrote:

> In article <uvtoin$30ajm$1@dont-email.me>,
> The True Doctor <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
> > On 19/04/2024 13:13, Daniel70 wrote:
> >>
> >> So it would seem that Chris Chibnall was not the first to
> >> suggest that there had been many re-generations PRIOR to
> >> Hartnell (over and above the "The Brain of Morbius"
> >> confusion).
> >
> > The Deadly Assassin which was 3 series earlier firmly
> > establishes a limit of 12 regenerations and that is repeated
> > by both the Doctor and the Master in The Keeper of Traken,
> > the 4th Doctor's penultimate story.
>
> Good facts AGA!

Neither of you can handle the fact that Doctor Who has evolved
over the years and things change. Doctor Who will never be the
TV show it was in 1976 regardless of how much spitting of
dummies out of the pram happens. Life changes, people change,
the Doctor changes... that is the real fact here.

On 19/04/2024 14:23, Blueshirt wrote:
> The True Doctor wrote:
>
>> On 19/04/2024 13:13, Daniel70 wrote:
>>>
>>> So it would seem that Chris Chibnall was not the first to
>>> suggest that there had been many re-generations PRIOR to
>>> Hartnell (over and above the "The Brain of Morbius"
>>
>> The Deadly Assassin which was 3 series earlier firmly
>> establishes a limit of 12 regenerations and that is repeated
>> by both the Doctor and the Master in The Keeper of Traken, the
>> 4th Doctor's penultimate story.
>
> Which would be fine and dandy as Doctor Who gospel if we wasn't
> on the 15th Doctor... so where is that "limit" again?
>

Gatwa isn't the real Doctor. Doctor Who ended in 2017 after the Doctor
was given a new cycle of regeneration by the Time Lords in The Time of
the Doctor following the pleas of Clara. The monstrosity of the Timeless
Child created by Chibnall after Doctor Who ended isn't canon.

> Which just proves that Doctor Who is not consistent with
> itself... and it's whatever the Executive Producer of the day
> wants that counts!

No it doesn't. Staying true to the original character and rationale is
what counts. The Doctor died in The Fall of the Doctor and that's it. I
have written a fan fic in which he is saved but it's fan fic just like
everything written by Moffat, Chibnall and Davies after the The Fall of
the Doctor too.

--
The True Doctor https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCngrZwoS0n21IRcXpKO79Lw

"To be woke is to be uninformed which is exactly the opposite of what it
stands for." -William Shatner

On 19/04/2024 19:53, Blueshirt wrote:
> The Doctor wrote:
>
>> In article <uvtoin$30ajm$1@dont-email.me>,
>> The True Doctor <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>>> On 19/04/2024 13:13, Daniel70 wrote:
>>>>
>>>> So it would seem that Chris Chibnall was not the first to
>>>> suggest that there had been many re-generations PRIOR to
>>>> Hartnell (over and above the "The Brain of Morbius"
>>>> confusion).
>>>
>>> The Deadly Assassin which was 3 series earlier firmly
>>> establishes a limit of 12 regenerations and that is repeated
>>> by both the Doctor and the Master in The Keeper of Traken,
>>> the 4th Doctor's penultimate story.
>>
>> Good facts AGA!
>
> Neither of you can handle the fact that Doctor Who has evolved
> over the years and things change. Doctor Who will never be the
> TV show it was in 1976 regardless of how much spitting of
> dummies out of the pram happens. Life changes, people change,
> the Doctor changes... that is the real fact here.

Doctor Who ended in 2017. Up to 2017 the Doctor was the same character
he was in 1963.

In literature following the principles of good writing character's
origin stories do not change and must never change. Superman was born on
Krypton to Dur-El and sent to Earth in order to save his life when the
planet exploded. He was then found and adopted by Jonathan and Martha
Kent and because of how they brought him up used his powers to help
others. He was not created to be a monster by being experimented on,
tortured, and murdered as a child in order to bring about the end of
civilisation. That character is Doomsday not Superman. The Doctor is the
Doctor not the Timeless Child.

--
The True Doctor https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCngrZwoS0n21IRcXpKO79Lw

"To be woke is to be uninformed which is exactly the opposite of what it
stands for." -William Shatner

The True Doctor wrote:

> On 19/04/2024 14:23, Blueshirt wrote:
> > The True Doctor wrote:
> >
> > > On 19/04/2024 13:13, Daniel70 wrote:
> > > >
> > > > So it would seem that Chris Chibnall was not the first to
> > > > suggest that there had been many re-generations PRIOR to
> > > > Hartnell (over and above the "The Brain of Morbius"
> > >
> > > The Deadly Assassin which was 3 series earlier firmly
> > > establishes a limit of 12 regenerations and that is
> > > repeated by both the Doctor and the Master in The Keeper
> > > of Traken, the 4th Doctor's penultimate story.
> >
> > Which would be fine and dandy as Doctor Who gospel if we
> > wasn't on the 15th Doctor... so where is that "limit" again?
> >
>
> Gatwa isn't the real Doctor. Doctor Who ended in 2017 after
> the Doctor was given a new cycle of regeneration by the Time
> Lords in The Time of the Doctor following the pleas of Clara.
> The monstrosity of the Timeless Child created by Chibnall
> after Doctor Who ended isn't canon.
>
> > Which just proves that Doctor Who is not consistent with
> > itself... and it's whatever the Executive Producer of the day
> > wants that counts!
>
> No it doesn't. Staying true to the original character and
> rationale is what counts. The Doctor died in The Fall of the
> Doctor and that's it. I have written a fan fic in which he is
> saved but it's fan fic just like everything written by Moffat,
> Chibnall and Davies after the The Fall of the Doctor too.

Fan fic as a term doesn't automatically make something bad or
wrong. I've read some good fan fic over the years. I'd also
consider most of what Big Finish produce as fan fic, just
licensed by the BBC and released on audio... and a lot of it is
very good.

Being fair I suppose that's what any Doctor Who is really when
it all boils down to it if a fan of the show is the Executive
Producer... it's their ideas and their vision of the show. Just
like it would be yours or mine if we were writing our ideas down
on paper. The only difference is, they are paid by the BBC which
makes their ideas legitimately part of the show.

Why don't you post your fan fic Doctor Who story somewhere for
us to read?

In article <xn0okrmiiatnx0k003@post.eweka.nl>,
Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
>The Doctor wrote:
>
>> In article <uvtoin$30ajm$1@dont-email.me>,
>> The True Doctor <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>> > On 19/04/2024 13:13, Daniel70 wrote:
>> >>
>> >> So it would seem that Chris Chibnall was not the first to
>> >> suggest that there had been many re-generations PRIOR to
>> >> Hartnell (over and above the "The Brain of Morbius"
>> >> confusion).
>> >
>> > The Deadly Assassin which was 3 series earlier firmly
>> > establishes a limit of 12 regenerations and that is repeated
>> > by both the Doctor and the Master in The Keeper of Traken,
>> > the 4th Doctor's penultimate story.
>>
>> Good facts AGA!
>
>Neither of you can handle the fact that Doctor Who has evolved
>over the years and things change. Doctor Who will never be the
>TV show it was in 1976 regardless of how much spitting of
>dummies out of the pram happens. Life changes, people change,
>the Doctor changes... that is the real fact here.

Evolved or devolved?
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen
What worth the power of law that won't stop lawlessness? -unknown

In article <uvufvo$35gfn$1@dont-email.me>,
The True Doctor <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>On 19/04/2024 14:23, Blueshirt wrote:
>> The True Doctor wrote:
>>
>>> On 19/04/2024 13:13, Daniel70 wrote:
>>>>
>>>> So it would seem that Chris Chibnall was not the first to
>>>> suggest that there had been many re-generations PRIOR to
>>>> Hartnell (over and above the "The Brain of Morbius"
>>>
>>> The Deadly Assassin which was 3 series earlier firmly
>>> establishes a limit of 12 regenerations and that is repeated
>>> by both the Doctor and the Master in The Keeper of Traken, the
>>> 4th Doctor's penultimate story.
>>
>> Which would be fine and dandy as Doctor Who gospel if we wasn't
>> on the 15th Doctor... so where is that "limit" again?
>>
>
>Gatwa isn't the real Doctor. Doctor Who ended in 2017 after the Doctor
>was given a new cycle of regeneration by the Time Lords in The Time of
>the Doctor following the pleas of Clara. The monstrosity of the Timeless
>Child created by Chibnall after Doctor Who ended isn't canon.
>

It must be retconned!

>> Which just proves that Doctor Who is not consistent with
>> itself... and it's whatever the Executive Producer of the day
>> wants that counts!
>
>No it doesn't. Staying true to the original character and rationale is
>what counts. The Doctor died in The Fall of the Doctor and that's it. I
>have written a fan fic in which he is saved but it's fan fic just like
>everything written by Moffat, Chibnall and Davies after the The Fall of
>the Doctor too.
>
>--
>The True Doctor https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCngrZwoS0n21IRcXpKO79Lw
>
>"To be woke is to be uninformed which is exactly the opposite of what it
>stands for." -William Shatner
>

--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen
What worth the power of law that won't stop lawlessness? -unknown

In article <uvugg0$35gfn$2@dont-email.me>,
The True Doctor <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>On 19/04/2024 19:53, Blueshirt wrote:
>> The Doctor wrote:
>>
>>> In article <uvtoin$30ajm$1@dont-email.me>,
>>> The True Doctor <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>>>> On 19/04/2024 13:13, Daniel70 wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> So it would seem that Chris Chibnall was not the first to
>>>>> suggest that there had been many re-generations PRIOR to
>>>>> Hartnell (over and above the "The Brain of Morbius"
>>>>> confusion).
>>>>
>>>> The Deadly Assassin which was 3 series earlier firmly
>>>> establishes a limit of 12 regenerations and that is repeated
>>>> by both the Doctor and the Master in The Keeper of Traken,
>>>> the 4th Doctor's penultimate story.
>>>
>>> Good facts AGA!
>>
>> Neither of you can handle the fact that Doctor Who has evolved
>> over the years and things change. Doctor Who will never be the
>> TV show it was in 1976 regardless of how much spitting of
>> dummies out of the pram happens. Life changes, people change,
>> the Doctor changes... that is the real fact here.
>
>Doctor Who ended in 2017. Up to 2017 the Doctor was the same character
>he was in 1963.
>
>In literature following the principles of good writing character's
>origin stories do not change and must never change. Superman was born on
>Krypton to Dur-El and sent to Earth in order to save his life when the
>planet exploded. He was then found and adopted by Jonathan and Martha
>Kent and because of how they brought him up used his powers to help
>others. He was not created to be a monster by being experimented on,
>tortured, and murdered as a child in order to bring about the end of
>civilisation. That character is Doomsday not Superman. The Doctor is the
>Doctor not the Timeless Child.
>

Retcon the Timeless Child!

>--
>The True Doctor https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCngrZwoS0n21IRcXpKO79Lw
>
>"To be woke is to be uninformed which is exactly the opposite of what it
>stands for." -William Shatner
>

--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen
What worth the power of law that won't stop lawlessness? -unknown

In article <xn0okrqwaazkpgl000@post.eweka.nl>,
Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
>The True Doctor wrote:
>
>> On 19/04/2024 14:23, Blueshirt wrote:
>> > The True Doctor wrote:
>> >
>> > > On 19/04/2024 13:13, Daniel70 wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > So it would seem that Chris Chibnall was not the first to
>> > > > suggest that there had been many re-generations PRIOR to
>> > > > Hartnell (over and above the "The Brain of Morbius"
>> > >
>> > > The Deadly Assassin which was 3 series earlier firmly
>> > > establishes a limit of 12 regenerations and that is
>> > > repeated by both the Doctor and the Master in The Keeper
>> > > of Traken, the 4th Doctor's penultimate story.
>> >
>> > Which would be fine and dandy as Doctor Who gospel if we
>> > wasn't on the 15th Doctor... so where is that "limit" again?
>> >
>>
>> Gatwa isn't the real Doctor. Doctor Who ended in 2017 after
>> the Doctor was given a new cycle of regeneration by the Time
>> Lords in The Time of the Doctor following the pleas of Clara.
>> The monstrosity of the Timeless Child created by Chibnall
>> after Doctor Who ended isn't canon.
>>
>> > Which just proves that Doctor Who is not consistent with
>> > itself... and it's whatever the Executive Producer of the day
>> > wants that counts!
>>
>> No it doesn't. Staying true to the original character and
>> rationale is what counts. The Doctor died in The Fall of the
>> Doctor and that's it. I have written a fan fic in which he is
>> saved but it's fan fic just like everything written by Moffat,
>> Chibnall and Davies after the The Fall of the Doctor too.
>
>Fan fic as a term doesn't automatically make something bad or
>wrong. I've read some good fan fic over the years. I'd also
>consider most of what Big Finish produce as fan fic, just
>licensed by the BBC and released on audio... and a lot of it is
>very good.
>
>Being fair I suppose that's what any Doctor Who is really when
>it all boils down to it if a fan of the show is the Executive
>Producer... it's their ideas and their vision of the show. Just
>like it would be yours or mine if we were writing our ideas down
>on paper. The only difference is, they are paid by the BBC which
>makes their ideas legitimately part of the show.
>
>Why don't you post your fan fic Doctor Who story somewhere for
>us to read?
>

alt.drwho.creative is still kicking!
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen
What worth the power of law that won't stop lawlessness? -unknown

The Doctor wrote:

> In article <xn0okrqwaazkpgl000@post.eweka.nl>,
> Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
> > The True Doctor wrote:
> >>
> >> No it doesn't. Staying true to the original character and
> >> rationale is what counts. The Doctor died in The Fall of the
> >> Doctor and that's it. I have written a fan fic in which he
> >> is saved but it's fan fic just like everything written by
> >> Moffat, Chibnall and Davies after the The Fall of the
> >> Doctor too.
> >
> > Fan fic as a term doesn't automatically make something bad or
> > wrong. I've read some good fan fic over the years. I'd also
> > consider most of what Big Finish produce as fan fic, just
> > licensed by the BBC and released on audio... and a lot of it
> > is very good.
> >
> > Being fair I suppose that's what any Doctor Who is really
> > when it all boils down to it if a fan of the show is the
> > Executive Producer... it's their ideas and their vision of
> > the show. Just like it would be yours or mine if we were
> > writing our ideas down on paper. The only difference is,
> > they are paid by the BBC which makes their ideas
> > legitimately part of the show.
> >
> > Why don't you post your fan fic Doctor Who story somewhere
> > for us to read?
>
> alt.drwho.creative is still kicking!

Yes it is... and it's where you should be posting your NightCafe
Studio 'art', as in, just there. Your AI created picture would
be considered [by some] as 'creative', like Doctor Who fan fic
is, so that's where it belongs.

Cross-posting your AI generated efforts here, to the UK group
and also to the Doctor Who binaries group is called trolling...

The Doctor wrote:

> In article <xn0okrmiiatnx0k003@post.eweka.nl>,
> Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
> >
> > Neither of you can handle the fact that Doctor Who has
> > evolved over the years and things change. Doctor Who will
> > never be the TV show it was in 1976 regardless of how much
> > spitting of dummies out of the pram happens. Life changes,
> > people change, the Doctor changes... that is the real fact
> > here.
>
> Evolved or devolved?

That is up to each individual to decide... with Doctor Who fans
there is no one size fits all.

In article <xn0okrscdb1iyzy002@post.eweka.nl>,
Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
>The Doctor wrote:
>
>> In article <xn0okrqwaazkpgl000@post.eweka.nl>,
>> Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
>> > The True Doctor wrote:
>> >>
>> >> No it doesn't. Staying true to the original character and
>> >> rationale is what counts. The Doctor died in The Fall of the
>> >> Doctor and that's it. I have written a fan fic in which he
>> >> is saved but it's fan fic just like everything written by
>> >> Moffat, Chibnall and Davies after the The Fall of the
>> >> Doctor too.
>> >
>> > Fan fic as a term doesn't automatically make something bad or
>> > wrong. I've read some good fan fic over the years. I'd also
>> > consider most of what Big Finish produce as fan fic, just
>> > licensed by the BBC and released on audio... and a lot of it
>> > is very good.
>> >
>> > Being fair I suppose that's what any Doctor Who is really
>> > when it all boils down to it if a fan of the show is the
>> > Executive Producer... it's their ideas and their vision of
>> > the show. Just like it would be yours or mine if we were
>> > writing our ideas down on paper. The only difference is,
>> > they are paid by the BBC which makes their ideas
>> > legitimately part of the show.
>> >
>> > Why don't you post your fan fic Doctor Who story somewhere
>> > for us to read?
>>
>> alt.drwho.creative is still kicking!
>
>Yes it is... and it's where you should be posting your NightCafe
>Studio 'art', as in, just there. Your AI created picture would
>be considered [by some] as 'creative', like Doctor Who fan fic
>is, so that's where it belongs.
>
>Cross-posting your AI generated efforts here, to the UK group
>and also to the Doctor Who binaries group is called trolling...

Flaming BS for you!
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen
What worth the power of law that won't stop lawlessness? -unknown

In article <xn0okrsi5b1rajd003@post.eweka.nl>,
Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
>The Doctor wrote:
>
>> In article <xn0okrmiiatnx0k003@post.eweka.nl>,
>> Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
>> >
>> > Neither of you can handle the fact that Doctor Who has
>> > evolved over the years and things change. Doctor Who will
>> > never be the TV show it was in 1976 regardless of how much
>> > spitting of dummies out of the pram happens. Life changes,
>> > people change, the Doctor changes... that is the real fact
>> > here.
>>
>> Evolved or devolved?
>
>That is up to each individual to decide... with Doctor Who fans
>there is no one size fits all.

There you go.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen
What worth the power of law that won't stop lawlessness? -unknown

The True Doctor wrote on 20/4/24 5:25 am:
> On 19/04/2024 19:53, Blueshirt wrote:
>> The Doctor wrote:
>>> In article <uvtoin$30ajm$1@dont-email.me>,
>>> The True Doctor  <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>>>> On 19/04/2024 13:13, Daniel70 wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> So it would seem that Chris Chibnall was not the first to
>>>>> suggest that there had been many re-generations PRIOR to
>>>>> Hartnell (over and above the "The Brain of Morbius"
>>>>> confusion).
>>>>
>>>> The Deadly Assassin which was 3 series earlier firmly
>>>> establishes a limit of 12 regenerations and that is repeated
>>>> by both the Doctor and the Master in The Keeper of Traken,
>>>> the 4th Doctor's penultimate story.
>>>
>>> Good facts AGA!

WHAT FACTS, asswipe?? Aggy just typed a STATEMENT!!

>> Neither of you can handle the fact that Doctor Who has evolved
>> over the years and things change. Doctor Who will never be the
>> TV show it was in 1976 regardless of how much spitting of
>> dummies out of the pram happens. Life changes, people change,
>> the Doctor changes... that is the real fact here.
>
> Doctor Who ended in 2017. Up to 2017 the Doctor was the same character
> he was in 1963.
>
> In literature following the principles of good writing character's
> origin stories do not change and must never change. Superman was born on
> Krypton to Dur-El and sent to Earth in order to save his life when the
> planet exploded. He was then found and adopted by Jonathan and Martha
> Kent and because of how they brought him up used his powers to help
> others. He was not created to be a monster by being experimented on,
> tortured, and murdered as a child in order to bring about the end of
> civilisation. That character is Doomsday not Superman. The Doctor is the
> Doctor not the Timeless Child.
>
Ummm!! Let me think ...... how many times has The Doctor (of EITHER sex)
brought about the end of Civilisation??? Thinking!! Thinking!!
--
Daniel

In article <v00bok$3lbsu$1@dont-email.me>,
Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>The True Doctor wrote on 20/4/24 5:25 am:
>> On 19/04/2024 19:53, Blueshirt wrote:
>>> The Doctor wrote:
>>>> In article <uvtoin$30ajm$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>> The True Doctor  <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>>>>> On 19/04/2024 13:13, Daniel70 wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So it would seem that Chris Chibnall was not the first to
>>>>>> suggest that there had been many re-generations PRIOR to
>>>>>> Hartnell (over and above the "The Brain of Morbius"
>>>>>> confusion).
>>>>>
>>>>> The Deadly Assassin which was 3 series earlier firmly
>>>>> establishes a limit of 12 regenerations and that is repeated
>>>>> by both the Doctor and the Master in The Keeper of Traken,
>>>>> the 4th Doctor's penultimate story.
>>>>
>>>> Good facts AGA!
>
>WHAT FACTS, a%e?? Aggy just typed a STATEMENT!!

What do you recall ofthe Deadly Assassin Red-Beard?

>
>>> Neither of you can handle the fact that Doctor Who has evolved
>>> over the years and things change. Doctor Who will never be the
>>> TV show it was in 1976 regardless of how much spitting of
>>> dummies out of the pram happens. Life changes, people change,
>>> the Doctor changes... that is the real fact here.
>>
>> Doctor Who ended in 2017. Up to 2017 the Doctor was the same character
>> he was in 1963.
>>
>> In literature following the principles of good writing character's
>> origin stories do not change and must never change. Superman was born on
>> Krypton to Dur-El and sent to Earth in order to save his life when the
>> planet exploded. He was then found and adopted by Jonathan and Martha
>> Kent and because of how they brought him up used his powers to help
>> others. He was not created to be a monster by being experimented on,
>> tortured, and murdered as a child in order to bring about the end of
>> civilisation. That character is Doomsday not Superman. The Doctor is the
>> Doctor not the Timeless Child.
>>
>Ummm!! Let me think ...... how many times has The Doctor (of EITHER sex)
>brought about the end of Civilisation??? Thinking!! Thinking!!

Chibnall!!

>--
>Daniel

--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen
What worth the power of law that won't stop lawlessness? -unknown

The Doctor <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
> In article <uvtoin$30ajm$1@dont-email.me>,
> The True Doctor <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>> On 19/04/2024 13:13, Daniel70 wrote:
>>> Tonight's post from the past concerns Regeneration Limits, a topic that
>>> has been close to the Hearts of some here-abouts, recently!!
>>>
>>> Quote from 'Olton' in the 'Favourite Dr Who' thread of June 1991
>>> In "Nightmare of Eden," the Doctor says something about timelords having
>>> 125 lives, and that he had had about 190. This clearly doesn't "jive"
>>> with other established facts, unless you want to think that he means
>>> that their lifespan is 125 times the length of a human's. That's
>>> possible, but the context that he uses it in implies 125 regenerations.
>>> End Quote
>>>
>>> So it would seem that Chris Chibnall was not the first to suggest that
>>> there had been many re-generations PRIOR to Hartnell (over and above the
>>> "The Brain of Morbius" confusion).
>>>
>>> Discuss.
>>
>> The Deadly Assassin which was 3 series earlier firmly establishes a
>> limit of 12 regenerations and that is repeated by both the Doctor and
>> the Master in The Keeper of Traken, the 4th Doctor's penultimate story.
>>
>> Maybe he was talking about going undercover 190 times or on 190
>> different planets or different historical periods.
>>
>
> Good facts AGA!

Facts? Facts? (Not that I think there was any such discussion in Nightmare
of Eden, but maybe my memory of that is faulty. Or maybe it’s another of
those novelisation inventions like the nonsense Aggie loves from
Underworld.)

But wait - Aggie is saying that Deadly Assassin predates Nightmare of Eden
therefore the 12 regeneration limit is absolute.

But Brain of Morbius came before that, and on screen showed 11 faces of the
Doctor prior to Tom Baker’s. Therefore using Aggie’s logic, Peter Davison
was the 13th and final Doctor and when he says “Feels different this time”
he is dying. Doctor Who ended with Caves of Androzani in March 1984 and
every episode since has been a fever dream of the dying Doctor.

(I am of course not taking account of the retcon in the novelisation that
suggests the 8 unknown faces are those of Morbius. Morbius is clearly
winning the mind duel and it is the Doctor who is being pushed back, and
this was Philip Hinchcliffe’s intent).

Unless, of course, we go back further to The War Games, when the Doctor
reveals that his people can “live forever, barring accidents”. But perhaps
that can be construed as suggesting that Time Lords who do not suffer
twelve fatal accidents never reach their thirteenth and final incarnations.

Which explains the need for the Matrix - millions of years of memories
couldn’t possibly all be retained in one mind, so some sort of external
augmentation and storage would be very much needed.

But of course the idea that there had been earlier Doctors didn’t originate
with Morbius.

Whitaker's draft scripts (for The Power Of The Daleks) revealed that the
Doctor had been “renewed” before; he was to open a drawer in the console
which contained relics from his previous incarnations, including an earring
and a metal bracelet (which in the 60s would have suggested that at least
one previous Doctor had been female). The scripts also specified the
Doctor's age as 750 years, included various references to his grandchild
Susan -- whose present location the Doctor could no longer recall -- and
hinted that it might have been the Daleks who had destroyed his homeworld.
All this material was cut in Dennis Spooner’s rewrites for time - much
additional background was removed to fit the very complex story and
introduction of the new Doctor into six episodes.

Then we move forward again to the 80s and The Five Doctors, where the
Master reveals that he has been offered a whole new cycle of regenerations.
So the limit of 12 was never absolute, and the Master’s whole motivation
for The Deadly Assassin is negated.

In short, a rigid insistence on a specific canon is pointless when it comes
to Doctor Who. And paying any attention to Aggie, who insists on repeating
his delusions about the show as “facts”, is a sure sign of a very limited
intellect. So know you know why Dave says what he says.

--
“The timelines and … canon … are rupturing” - the Doctor

In article <v00f5u$3m6k4$1@dont-email.me>,
The Last Doctor <mike@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>The Doctor <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>> In article <uvtoin$30ajm$1@dont-email.me>,
>> The True Doctor <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>>> On 19/04/2024 13:13, Daniel70 wrote:
>>>> Tonight's post from the past concerns Regeneration Limits, a topic that
>>>> has been close to the Hearts of some here-abouts, recently!!
>>>>
>>>> Quote from 'Olton' in the 'Favourite Dr Who' thread of June 1991
>>>> In "Nightmare of Eden," the Doctor says something about timelords having
>>>> 125 lives, and that he had had about 190. This clearly doesn't "jive"
>>>> with other established facts, unless you want to think that he means
>>>> that their lifespan is 125 times the length of a human's. That's
>>>> possible, but the context that he uses it in implies 125 regenerations.
>>>> End Quote
>>>>
>>>> So it would seem that Chris Chibnall was not the first to suggest that
>>>> there had been many re-generations PRIOR to Hartnell (over and above the
>>>> "The Brain of Morbius" confusion).
>>>>
>>>> Discuss.
>>>
>>> The Deadly Assassin which was 3 series earlier firmly establishes a
>>> limit of 12 regenerations and that is repeated by both the Doctor and
>>> the Master in The Keeper of Traken, the 4th Doctor's penultimate story.
>>>
>>> Maybe he was talking about going undercover 190 times or on 190
>>> different planets or different historical periods.
>>>
>>
>> Good facts AGA!
>
>Facts? Facts? (Not that I think there was any such discussion in Nightmare
>of Eden, but maybe my memory of that is faulty. Or maybe it’s another of
>those novelisation inventions like the nonsense Aggie loves from
>Underworld.)
>
>But wait - Aggie is saying that Deadly Assassin predates Nightmare of Eden
>therefore the 12 regeneration limit is absolute.
>
>But Brain of Morbius came before that, and on screen showed 11 faces of the
>Doctor prior to Tom Baker’s. Therefore using Aggie’s logic, Peter Davison
>was the 13th and final Doctor and when he says “Feels different this time”
>he is dying. Doctor Who ended with Caves of Androzani in March 1984 and
>every episode since has been a fever dream of the dying Doctor.
>
>(I am of course not taking account of the retcon in the novelisation that
>suggests the 8 unknown faces are those of Morbius. Morbius is clearly
>winning the mind duel and it is the Doctor who is being pushed back, and
>this was Philip Hinchcliffe’s intent).
>
>Unless, of course, we go back further to The War Games, when the Doctor
>reveals that his people can “live forever, barring accidents”. But perhaps
>that can be construed as suggesting that Time Lords who do not suffer
>twelve fatal accidents never reach their thirteenth and final incarnations.
>
>Which explains the need for the Matrix - millions of years of memories
>couldn’t possibly all be retained in one mind, so some sort of external
>augmentation and storage would be very much needed.
>
>But of course the idea that there had been earlier Doctors didn’t originate
>with Morbius.
>
>Whitaker's draft scripts (for The Power Of The Daleks) revealed that the
>Doctor had been “renewed” before; he was to open a drawer in the console
>which contained relics from his previous incarnations, including an earring
>and a metal bracelet (which in the 60s would have suggested that at least
>one previous Doctor had been female). The scripts also specified the
>Doctor's age as 750 years, included various references to his grandchild
>Susan -- whose present location the Doctor could no longer recall -- and
>hinted that it might have been the Daleks who had destroyed his homeworld.
>All this material was cut in Dennis Spooner’s rewrites for time - much
>additional background was removed to fit the very complex story and
>introduction of the new Doctor into six episodes.
>
>Then we move forward again to the 80s and The Five Doctors, where the
>Master reveals that he has been offered a whole new cycle of regenerations.
>So the limit of 12 was never absolute, and the Master’s whole motivation
>for The Deadly Assassin is negated.
>
>In short, a rigid insistence on a specific canon is pointless when it comes
>to Doctor Who. And paying any attention to Aggie, who insists on repeating
>his delusions about the show as “facts”, is a sure sign of a very limited
>intellect. So know you know why Dave says what he says.
>

You seem to be skewered MM!

>--
>“The timelines and … canon … are rupturing” - the Doctor

--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen
What worth the power of law that won't stop lawlessness? -unknown

The Doctor <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
> In article <v00f5u$3m6k4$1@dont-email.me>,
> The Last Doctor <mike@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>> The Doctor <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>>> In article <uvtoin$30ajm$1@dont-email.me>,
>>> The True Doctor <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>>>> On 19/04/2024 13:13, Daniel70 wrote:
>>>>> Tonight's post from the past concerns Regeneration Limits, a topic that
>>>>> has been close to the Hearts of some here-abouts, recently!!
>>>>>
>>>>> Quote from 'Olton' in the 'Favourite Dr Who' thread of June 1991
>>>>> In "Nightmare of Eden," the Doctor says something about timelords having
>>>>> 125 lives, and that he had had about 190. This clearly doesn't "jive"
>>>>> with other established facts, unless you want to think that he means
>>>>> that their lifespan is 125 times the length of a human's. That's
>>>>> possible, but the context that he uses it in implies 125 regenerations.
>>>>> End Quote
>>>>>
>>>>> So it would seem that Chris Chibnall was not the first to suggest that
>>>>> there had been many re-generations PRIOR to Hartnell (over and above the
>>>>> "The Brain of Morbius" confusion).
>>>>>
>>>>> Discuss.
>>>>
>>>> The Deadly Assassin which was 3 series earlier firmly establishes a
>>>> limit of 12 regenerations and that is repeated by both the Doctor and
>>>> the Master in The Keeper of Traken, the 4th Doctor's penultimate story.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe he was talking about going undercover 190 times or on 190
>>>> different planets or different historical periods.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Good facts AGA!
>>
>> Facts? Facts? (Not that I think there was any such discussion in Nightmare
>> of Eden, but maybe my memory of that is faulty. Or maybe it’s another of
>> those novelisation inventions like the nonsense Aggie loves from
>> Underworld.)
>>
>> But wait - Aggie is saying that Deadly Assassin predates Nightmare of Eden
>> therefore the 12 regeneration limit is absolute.
>>
>> But Brain of Morbius came before that, and on screen showed 11 faces of the
>> Doctor prior to Tom Baker’s. Therefore using Aggie’s logic, Peter Davison
>> was the 13th and final Doctor and when he says “Feels different this time”
>> he is dying. Doctor Who ended with Caves of Androzani in March 1984 and
>> every episode since has been a fever dream of the dying Doctor.
>>
>> (I am of course not taking account of the retcon in the novelisation that
>> suggests the 8 unknown faces are those of Morbius. Morbius is clearly
>> winning the mind duel and it is the Doctor who is being pushed back, and
>> this was Philip Hinchcliffe’s intent).
>>
>> Unless, of course, we go back further to The War Games, when the Doctor
>> reveals that his people can “live forever, barring accidents”. But perhaps
>> that can be construed as suggesting that Time Lords who do not suffer
>> twelve fatal accidents never reach their thirteenth and final incarnations.
>>
>> Which explains the need for the Matrix - millions of years of memories
>> couldn’t possibly all be retained in one mind, so some sort of external
>> augmentation and storage would be very much needed.
>>
>> But of course the idea that there had been earlier Doctors didn’t originate
>> with Morbius.
>>
>> Whitaker's draft scripts (for The Power Of The Daleks) revealed that the
>> Doctor had been “renewed” before; he was to open a drawer in the console
>> which contained relics from his previous incarnations, including an earring
>> and a metal bracelet (which in the 60s would have suggested that at least
>> one previous Doctor had been female). The scripts also specified the
>> Doctor's age as 750 years, included various references to his grandchild
>> Susan -- whose present location the Doctor could no longer recall -- and
>> hinted that it might have been the Daleks who had destroyed his homeworld.
>> All this material was cut in Dennis Spooner’s rewrites for time - much
>> additional background was removed to fit the very complex story and
>> introduction of the new Doctor into six episodes.
>>
>> Then we move forward again to the 80s and The Five Doctors, where the
>> Master reveals that he has been offered a whole new cycle of regenerations.
>> So the limit of 12 was never absolute, and the Master’s whole motivation
>> for The Deadly Assassin is negated.
>>
>> In short, a rigid insistence on a specific canon is pointless when it comes
>> to Doctor Who. And paying any attention to Aggie, who insists on repeating
>> his delusions about the show as “facts”, is a sure sign of a very limited
>> intellect. So know you know why Dave says what he says.
>>
>
> You seem to be skewered MM!
>
I have absolutely no idea what you think you mean by that Dave.

--
“The timelines and … canon … are rupturing” - the Doctor