On Saturday, December 23, 2023 at 1:57:15 PM UTC-7, Emanuel Berg wrote:
> Brian Smith wrote:
>
> > The three-tribe format we seem to be stuck with is
> > a disadvantage to women players. The start of the season
> > puts too much emphasis on strength which usually results in
> > a woman being targeted if the tribe loses a challenge
> > because they fear being whittled down to nothing. We see
> > this happen so often that it's hard to believe Jeff doesn't
> > see it. Is it one of his ways to give guys an advantage over
> > the girls?
> Yes, the "keep the tribe strong" argument for voting
> for someone who isn't perceived as being on of them.
>
> I didn't think of this aspect in connection to the three
> tribes situation, I disliked it for other reasons: more
> competition, less duel between tribes in challenges; and,
> since the tribes are smaller, you don't get to know a lot of
> the players early on since a third vs half gets all the
> attention after the immunity challenge. And just in general,
> I like things uncomplicated and grand.
>
> But it is possible that the hot young girl being voted out
> early on can be remedied to some extent by having 2 tribes
> instead of 3 initially (and always). Since in a big tribe, you
> can afford targeting some huge dude since probably you have
> 2-3 of them to start with.
>
> Is that what you meant?
> --

Yes, everything about having three tribes sucks. What really hurts the edit as far as I'm concerned, is that we often don't get to see the winner's early game play and how they formulated their win. In the prejury phase of the game we were shown very little to make us think Dee would win the game. We shouldn't have to rely on postseason interviews to get the details on how and why she won.

--
Brian

Brian Smith wrote:

> Yes, everything about having three tribes sucks.

Do you know when they started with that and what the
reason was?

Maybe they wanted more gameplay on the individual level and
less one huge majority alliance eating up the minority one by
one at the loosing tribe?

Or maybe they thought at tribal council with a huge bunch of
guys, that people would have difficulty focusing on that?

If so, I'm the other way around, I like it when there are
a lot of people and I don't mind then naturally some will talk
more than others.

--
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

On Friday, December 22, 2023 at 5:32:13 PM UTC-8, Brian Smith wrote:

> S41 is one of the worst seasons for me. The woke shit, rewriting history, and the hourglass twist ruined the season.

Yes, the hourglass and the "Do or Die" twists were terrible ideas, and there were far too many advantages in play for my liking. However,
the "woke shit" was much more apparent in S42 than in 41. IMO, S41 had a much better cast who, for the most part, played solid
strategic games. Even the early boots looked like they, at least, belonged on Survivor. In comparison, the S45 crew consisted of
only 7 people who I would consider to be competent players (Kaleb, Kellie, Emily, Drew, Julie, Austin, and Dee). With so many players
being way over their heads when it came to strategic planning, it is little wonder that the season was full of really shoddy game play.

> Gamewise, Jake was as big of a moron as Katurah.

I agree. The fact that both of these bozos somehow found their way into the F4 while Kellie, Drew, and Kaleb were sent to the jury was infuriating..
> I kind of disagree. Jake didn't come across as being genuine when he told her about his idol. If Jake had voted for Katurah, she would have looked just as dumb.

There is no way that Katurah gets a pass from me on this one. After going on the helicopter ride with Dee and Austin, she had finally figured out that the two of
them needed to be broken up. At F5, Austin was out of reach because he had won immunity, so Katurah pitched a Dee vote to Julie who declined. So she was stuck.
But then, out of the blue, Jake tells her about his immunity amulet, and his idea for the two of them to blindside Julie. Katurah is overjoyed, but pitches a Dee
vote to him instead. Jake agrees to the plan, and swears on his grandmother that he will follow through. This was a pivotal moment in the game, and Katurah
had just been handed an opportunity to blindside the person who was most likely to be the winner. No matter how she felt about Jake, she had to take it.
Even if she had ended up being played, she had to take it. It was her best shot, and she was never going to get a better one. To quote Ed Stasiak, one of the old
time alt.tv.survivor posters......"Dumbass"!

On Saturday, December 23, 2023 at 6:05:47 PM UTC-7, zeppo wrote:
> On Friday, December 22, 2023 at 5:32:13 PM UTC-8, Brian Smith wrote:
>
> > S41 is one of the worst seasons for me. The woke shit, rewriting history, and the hourglass twist ruined the season.
> Yes, the hourglass and the "Do or Die" twists were terrible ideas, and there were far too many advantages in play for my liking. However,
> the "woke shit" was much more apparent in S42 than in 41. IMO, S41 had a much better cast who, for the most part, played solid
> strategic games. Even the early boots looked like they, at least, belonged on Survivor. In comparison, the S45 crew consisted of
> only 7 people who I would consider to be competent players (Kaleb, Kellie, Emily, Drew, Julie, Austin, and Dee). With so many players
> being way over their heads when it came to strategic planning, it is little wonder that the season was full of really shoddy game play.

S42 was just as bad as S41 and had a very unlikable cast. S41 had a good cast but the potential of that cast was squandered by the ridiculous twists and million advantages floating around. Thankfully, Jeff listened to the overwhelming negative feedback from fans and got rid of the worst aspects of those two seasons. It also didn't hurt that Danny made such a big stink about the result of a key challenge being reversed.

For me, S45 had the most likable cast by far of the new era which is important to me. It sucks that it had so many quitters but thankfully they all quit early in the game. If seven of 18 players were competent that's not a bad percentage.

> > Gamewise, Jake was as big of a moron as Katurah.
> I agree. The fact that both of these bozos somehow found their way into the F4 while Kellie, Drew, and Kaleb were sent to the jury was infuriating.
> > I kind of disagree. Jake didn't come across as being genuine when he told her about his idol. If Jake had voted for Katurah, she would have looked just as dumb.
> There is no way that Katurah gets a pass from me on this one. After going on the helicopter ride with Dee and Austin, she had finally figured out that the two of
> them needed to be broken up. At F5, Austin was out of reach because he had won immunity, so Katurah pitched a Dee vote to Julie who declined. So she was stuck.
> But then, out of the blue, Jake tells her about his immunity amulet, and his idea for the two of them to blindside Julie. Katurah is overjoyed, but pitches a Dee
> vote to him instead. Jake agrees to the plan, and swears on his grandmother that he will follow through. This was a pivotal moment in the game, and Katurah
> had just been handed an opportunity to blindside the person who was most likely to be the winner. No matter how she felt about Jake, she had to take it.
> Even if she had ended up being played, she had to take it. It was her best shot, and she was never going to get a better one. To quote Ed Stasiak, one of the old
> time alt.tv.survivor posters......"Dumbass"!

I just watched a clip Dalton posted of his exit interview with Katurah where they talk about F5. For Katurah it came down to not trusting Jake. She said she had a bad feeling about trusting him and has had those feelings in real life where making the wrong decision could lead to a very bad outcome.

https://twitter.com/DaltonRoss/status/1738581599296331911

This clip of Dee talking about F5 is really interesting. She says we missed her breaking down at F5 TC. When Jeff asked her what's wrong, she said she knew who was going home. She said if it wasn't for her tears that Katurah never would have changed her vote.

https://twitter.com/DaltonRoss/status/1738579583396405316

Yes, Katurah made the wrong move but was it her fault? The one thing we know for sure is that the game was decided at the F5 TC.

--
Brian

"Brian Smith" wrote in message
news:6594d8c9-1171-4011-ab8d-458cd536101en@googlegroups.com...
>
>On Saturday, December 23, 2023 at 9:36:21 AM UTC-7, Rick wrote:
>> "Brian Smith" wrote in message
>> news:c2927b7e-596b-4b9a...@googlegroups.com...
>> >
>> >On Friday, December 22, 2023 at 5:25:35 PM UTC-7, Rick wrote:
>> >> "Brian Smith" wrote in message
>> >> news:67559f2f-77af-40a6...@googlegroups.com...
>> >> >
>> >> >On Friday, December 22, 2023 at 12:18:29 PM UTC-7, Rick wrote:
>> >> >> "Emanuel Berg" wrote in message news:87il4qx...@dataswamp.org...
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Brian Smith wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >>> I just asked ChatGPT4
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> How many seasons of CBS Survivor have been won by women?
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> and it said 15 [...]
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> 15 is wrong. It's 18 which equates to 40%.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >I googled the same thing, and that data is from a site from
>> >> >> >2021-12-09 saying
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Out of the 40 seasons of Survivor, women have only won 15 of
>> >> >> > them. [1]
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >So for seasons 1-40, 37.5% were won by women.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >I suspect some other, also by now very much outdated source
>> >> >> >was used to conclude that Ethan Zohn was the youngest to
>> >> >> >ever win.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >[1]
>> >> >> >https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/survivor-many-women-won.html/
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> Ethan would have been the youngest winner through season 5, but
>> >> >> Jenna
>> >> >> was
>> >> >> clearly younger when she won in Season 6.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Through season 45, there have been 18 female winners (counting
>> >> >> Sandra
>> >> >> two
>> >> >> times) meaning females have won 40% of the time. In the so-called
>> >> >> "modern
>> >> >> era" (hate that term!), i.e., since season 41, women have won 3 out
>> >> >> of
>> >> >> 5
>> >> >> for
>> >> >> a 60% rate.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> It's also interesting that among people who came in second or tied
>> >> >> for
>> >> >> second, there have been 27 women vs. 24 men, which is just over
>> >> >> 50%.
>> >> >> If
>> >> >> we
>> >> >> include all non-winner finalists, there have been 39 women vs. 36
>> >> >> men,
>> >> >> which
>> >> >> is again just over 50%.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> FWIW
>> >> >
>> >> >I wonder what the vote count breakdown is between men and women. I
>> >> >could
>> >> >be
>> >> >totally wrong about this, but to me it seems like when women win it's
>> >> >not a
>> >> >blowout vote as often as it is with guys.
>> >> >
>> >> You're not wrong. Men had shutouts of 9-0 (Earl), 7-0 (JT), 8-0
>> >> (Cochran),
>> >> 10-0 (Jeremy) and 10-0 (Adam) - and last two were back-to-back, No
>> >> woman
>> >> has ever won in a shutout. Jenna, Sandra, Danni and Denise all won 6-1
>> >> (Denise was actually 6-1-1) and Erika and Maryanne won 7-1. If my
>> >> calculations are correct, the average win among men (again, ignoring
>> >> third
>> >> place votes) was 78% of the top two votes and the average for women
>> >> was
>> >> 73%.
>> >
>> >Interesting.
>> >
>> >> >On a bit of a tangent, did you notice that Kaleb was the only guy who
>> >> >voted
>> >> >for Dee to win? Did Bruce not vote for her based on the comment she
>> >> >made
>> >> >during FTC?
>> >> >
>> >> Yes, and I believe Kendra was the only woman who did not vote for Dee.
>> >> I
>> >> have not listened to or read any post-show interviews yet with the
>> >> jury,
>> >> but
>> >> I figured maybe Bruce was still holding a grudge against Emily who he
>> >> figured was closer to Dee than Emily.
>> >
>> >Kendra voting for Austin still baffles me. She was so gung-ho on a woman
>> >winning yet she voted for a guy. It's hard to say why Bruce didn't vote
>> >for
>> >Dee. He seemed very disconnected during FTC and only came to life when
>> >Dee
>> >brought up his idol.
>> >
>> >--
>> >Brian
>> He did seem disconnected, but I assumed it was just because he was
>> perceived
>> as the father figure for the group and he felt out of place (unlike Julie
>> who seemed right at home with everyone). I'm sure Rob C. will do a
>> deep-dive interview with him at some point and we'll get the full story.
>>
>> --
>
>I highly doubt Bruce felt out of place. Last season when Bruce was at
>Ponderosa with all the prejury girls, Maddy said they had a great time with
>him. She posted a lot of pics to back up her claims. After the season was
>over, they had meetups where it looked like Bruce had a lot of fun based on
>the videos posted. My guess is that not playing his idol haunted him the
>entire time.
>
>--
>Brian

But keep in mind that Bruce had his eyes opened this season by being told
directly how paternalistic he was coming across to people, so I do think
that may have alienated him from the younger crowd. He did not have that
self-awareness last season.

--

On Saturday, December 23, 2023 at 7:45:00 PM UTC-7, Rick wrote:
> "Brian Smith" wrote in message
> news:6594d8c9-1171-4011...@googlegroups.com...
> >
> >On Saturday, December 23, 2023 at 9:36:21 AM UTC-7, Rick wrote:
> >> "Brian Smith" wrote in message
> >> news:c2927b7e-596b-4b9a...@googlegroups.com...
> >> >
> >> >On Friday, December 22, 2023 at 5:25:35 PM UTC-7, Rick wrote:
> >> >> "Brian Smith" wrote in message
> >> >> news:67559f2f-77af-40a6...@googlegroups.com...
> >> >> >
> >> >> >On Friday, December 22, 2023 at 12:18:29 PM UTC-7, Rick wrote:
> >> >> >> "Emanuel Berg" wrote in message news:87il4qx...@dataswamp.org...
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >Brian Smith wrote:
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >>> I just asked ChatGPT4
> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >>> How many seasons of CBS Survivor have been won by women?
> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >>> and it said 15 [...]
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> 15 is wrong. It's 18 which equates to 40%.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >I googled the same thing, and that data is from a site from
> >> >> >> >2021-12-09 saying
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Out of the 40 seasons of Survivor, women have only won 15 of
> >> >> >> > them. [1]
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >So for seasons 1-40, 37.5% were won by women.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >I suspect some other, also by now very much outdated source
> >> >> >> >was used to conclude that Ethan Zohn was the youngest to
> >> >> >> >ever win.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >[1]
> >> >> >> >https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/survivor-many-women-won.html/
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> Ethan would have been the youngest winner through season 5, but
> >> >> >> Jenna
> >> >> >> was
> >> >> >> clearly younger when she won in Season 6.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Through season 45, there have been 18 female winners (counting
> >> >> >> Sandra
> >> >> >> two
> >> >> >> times) meaning females have won 40% of the time. In the so-called
> >> >> >> "modern
> >> >> >> era" (hate that term!), i.e., since season 41, women have won 3 out
> >> >> >> of
> >> >> >> 5
> >> >> >> for
> >> >> >> a 60% rate.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> It's also interesting that among people who came in second or tied
> >> >> >> for
> >> >> >> second, there have been 27 women vs. 24 men, which is just over
> >> >> >> 50%.
> >> >> >> If
> >> >> >> we
> >> >> >> include all non-winner finalists, there have been 39 women vs. 36
> >> >> >> men,
> >> >> >> which
> >> >> >> is again just over 50%.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> FWIW
> >> >> >
> >> >> >I wonder what the vote count breakdown is between men and women. I
> >> >> >could
> >> >> >be
> >> >> >totally wrong about this, but to me it seems like when women win it's
> >> >> >not a
> >> >> >blowout vote as often as it is with guys.
> >> >> >
> >> >> You're not wrong. Men had shutouts of 9-0 (Earl), 7-0 (JT), 8-0
> >> >> (Cochran),
> >> >> 10-0 (Jeremy) and 10-0 (Adam) - and last two were back-to-back, No
> >> >> woman
> >> >> has ever won in a shutout. Jenna, Sandra, Danni and Denise all won 6-1
> >> >> (Denise was actually 6-1-1) and Erika and Maryanne won 7-1. If my
> >> >> calculations are correct, the average win among men (again, ignoring
> >> >> third
> >> >> place votes) was 78% of the top two votes and the average for women
> >> >> was
> >> >> 73%.
> >> >
> >> >Interesting.
> >> >
> >> >> >On a bit of a tangent, did you notice that Kaleb was the only guy who
> >> >> >voted
> >> >> >for Dee to win? Did Bruce not vote for her based on the comment she
> >> >> >made
> >> >> >during FTC?
> >> >> >
> >> >> Yes, and I believe Kendra was the only woman who did not vote for Dee.
> >> >> I
> >> >> have not listened to or read any post-show interviews yet with the
> >> >> jury,
> >> >> but
> >> >> I figured maybe Bruce was still holding a grudge against Emily who he
> >> >> figured was closer to Dee than Emily.
> >> >
> >> >Kendra voting for Austin still baffles me. She was so gung-ho on a woman
> >> >winning yet she voted for a guy. It's hard to say why Bruce didn't vote
> >> >for
> >> >Dee. He seemed very disconnected during FTC and only came to life when
> >> >Dee
> >> >brought up his idol.
> >> >
> >> >--
> >> >Brian
> >> He did seem disconnected, but I assumed it was just because he was
> >> perceived
> >> as the father figure for the group and he felt out of place (unlike Julie
> >> who seemed right at home with everyone). I'm sure Rob C. will do a
> >> deep-dive interview with him at some point and we'll get the full story.
> >>
> >> --
> >
> >I highly doubt Bruce felt out of place. Last season when Bruce was at
> >Ponderosa with all the prejury girls, Maddy said they had a great time with
> >him. She posted a lot of pics to back up her claims. After the season was
> >over, they had meetups where it looked like Bruce had a lot of fun based on
> >the videos posted. My guess is that not playing his idol haunted him the
> >entire time.
> >
> >--
> >Brian
> But keep in mind that Bruce had his eyes opened this season by being told
> directly how paternalistic he was coming across to people, so I do think
> that may have alienated him from the younger crowd. He did not have that
> self-awareness last season.
>
> --

You might be right. Here's some finale week pics and I don't see Bruce in any of them. I don't see Julie either. I'm going to see if I can find out if they even went.

https://twitter.com/kellienalb/status/1738731841069133912

--
Brian

On Sunday, December 24, 2023 at 1:15:12 AM UTC-7, Brian Smith wrote:
> On Saturday, December 23, 2023 at 7:45:00 PM UTC-7, Rick wrote:
> > "Brian Smith" wrote in message
> > news:6594d8c9-1171-4011...@googlegroups.com...
> > >
> > >On Saturday, December 23, 2023 at 9:36:21 AM UTC-7, Rick wrote:
> > >> "Brian Smith" wrote in message
> > >> news:c2927b7e-596b-4b9a...@googlegroups.com...
> > >> >
> > >> >On Friday, December 22, 2023 at 5:25:35 PM UTC-7, Rick wrote:
> > >> >> "Brian Smith" wrote in message
> > >> >> news:67559f2f-77af-40a6...@googlegroups.com...
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >On Friday, December 22, 2023 at 12:18:29 PM UTC-7, Rick wrote:
> > >> >> >> "Emanuel Berg" wrote in message news:87il4qx...@dataswamp.org....
> > >> >> >> >
> > >> >> >> >Brian Smith wrote:
> > >> >> >> >
> > >> >> >> >>> I just asked ChatGPT4
> > >> >> >> >>>
> > >> >> >> >>> How many seasons of CBS Survivor have been won by women?
> > >> >> >> >>>
> > >> >> >> >>> and it said 15 [...]
> > >> >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> >> 15 is wrong. It's 18 which equates to 40%.
> > >> >> >> >
> > >> >> >> >I googled the same thing, and that data is from a site from
> > >> >> >> >2021-12-09 saying
> > >> >> >> >
> > >> >> >> > Out of the 40 seasons of Survivor, women have only won 15 of
> > >> >> >> > them. [1]
> > >> >> >> >
> > >> >> >> >So for seasons 1-40, 37.5% were won by women.
> > >> >> >> >
> > >> >> >> >I suspect some other, also by now very much outdated source
> > >> >> >> >was used to conclude that Ethan Zohn was the youngest to
> > >> >> >> >ever win.
> > >> >> >> >
> > >> >> >> >[1]
> > >> >> >> >https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/survivor-many-women-won.html/
> > >> >> >> >
> > >> >> >> Ethan would have been the youngest winner through season 5, but
> > >> >> >> Jenna
> > >> >> >> was
> > >> >> >> clearly younger when she won in Season 6.
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> Through season 45, there have been 18 female winners (counting
> > >> >> >> Sandra
> > >> >> >> two
> > >> >> >> times) meaning females have won 40% of the time. In the so-called
> > >> >> >> "modern
> > >> >> >> era" (hate that term!), i.e., since season 41, women have won 3 out
> > >> >> >> of
> > >> >> >> 5
> > >> >> >> for
> > >> >> >> a 60% rate.
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> It's also interesting that among people who came in second or tied
> > >> >> >> for
> > >> >> >> second, there have been 27 women vs. 24 men, which is just over
> > >> >> >> 50%.
> > >> >> >> If
> > >> >> >> we
> > >> >> >> include all non-winner finalists, there have been 39 women vs. 36
> > >> >> >> men,
> > >> >> >> which
> > >> >> >> is again just over 50%.
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> FWIW
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >I wonder what the vote count breakdown is between men and women. I
> > >> >> >could
> > >> >> >be
> > >> >> >totally wrong about this, but to me it seems like when women win it's
> > >> >> >not a
> > >> >> >blowout vote as often as it is with guys.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> You're not wrong. Men had shutouts of 9-0 (Earl), 7-0 (JT), 8-0
> > >> >> (Cochran),
> > >> >> 10-0 (Jeremy) and 10-0 (Adam) - and last two were back-to-back, No
> > >> >> woman
> > >> >> has ever won in a shutout. Jenna, Sandra, Danni and Denise all won 6-1
> > >> >> (Denise was actually 6-1-1) and Erika and Maryanne won 7-1. If my
> > >> >> calculations are correct, the average win among men (again, ignoring
> > >> >> third
> > >> >> place votes) was 78% of the top two votes and the average for women
> > >> >> was
> > >> >> 73%.
> > >> >
> > >> >Interesting.
> > >> >
> > >> >> >On a bit of a tangent, did you notice that Kaleb was the only guy who
> > >> >> >voted
> > >> >> >for Dee to win? Did Bruce not vote for her based on the comment she
> > >> >> >made
> > >> >> >during FTC?
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> Yes, and I believe Kendra was the only woman who did not vote for Dee.
> > >> >> I
> > >> >> have not listened to or read any post-show interviews yet with the
> > >> >> jury,
> > >> >> but
> > >> >> I figured maybe Bruce was still holding a grudge against Emily who he
> > >> >> figured was closer to Dee than Emily.
> > >> >
> > >> >Kendra voting for Austin still baffles me. She was so gung-ho on a woman
> > >> >winning yet she voted for a guy. It's hard to say why Bruce didn't vote
> > >> >for
> > >> >Dee. He seemed very disconnected during FTC and only came to life when
> > >> >Dee
> > >> >brought up his idol.
> > >> >
> > >> >--
> > >> >Brian
> > >> He did seem disconnected, but I assumed it was just because he was
> > >> perceived
> > >> as the father figure for the group and he felt out of place (unlike Julie
> > >> who seemed right at home with everyone). I'm sure Rob C. will do a
> > >> deep-dive interview with him at some point and we'll get the full story.
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >
> > >I highly doubt Bruce felt out of place. Last season when Bruce was at
> > >Ponderosa with all the prejury girls, Maddy said they had a great time with
> > >him. She posted a lot of pics to back up her claims. After the season was
> > >over, they had meetups where it looked like Bruce had a lot of fun based on
> > >the videos posted. My guess is that not playing his idol haunted him the
> > >entire time.
> > >
> > >--
> > >Brian
> > But keep in mind that Bruce had his eyes opened this season by being told
> > directly how paternalistic he was coming across to people, so I do think
> > that may have alienated him from the younger crowd. He did not have that
> > self-awareness last season.
> >
> > --
> You might be right. Here's some finale week pics and I don't see Bruce in any of them. I don't see Julie either. I'm going to see if I can find out if they even went.
>
> https://twitter.com/kellienalb/status/1738731841069133912
>
> --
> Brian

Bruce was there. Jake posted a photo today of him and Bruce.

https://twitter.com/jakeo_kane/status/1738935244521156910

--
Brian