On Thursday, November 16, 2023 at 6:05:28 AM UTC-5, George J. wrote:
> Michael Pendragon wrote:
>
> > On Tuesday, November 14, 2023 at 4:45:58 AM UTC-5, George J. wrote:
> >> NancyGene wrote:
> >>
> >> > On Sunday, November 12, 2023 at 3:02:53 AM UTC-9, NancyGene wrote:
> >> >> On Saturday, November 11, 2023 at 10:51:30 AM UTC-9, NancyGene wrote:
> >> >> > On Saturday, November 11, 2023 at 5:23:26 PM UTC-2, ME wrote:
> >> >> > > On Saturday, 11 November 2023 at 14:09:04 UTC-5, ME wrote:
> >> >> > > > On Saturday, 11 November 2023 at 13:52:41 UTC-5, NancyGene wrote:
> >> >> > > > > On Saturday, November 11, 2023 at 3:05:33 AM UTC-5, George J. wrote:
>
> >> >> > > > > > So where is your quote from "Austin's Preface" Michael? Or anywhere else that Austin allegedly says that he 'wanted [The Human Tragedy] to be thought of as "Dramatic Verse"' and/or that 'he believed [Dramatic Verse] "to be the highest form of poetry'?
> >> >> > > > >
> >> >> > > > > AND:
> >> >> > > > >
> >> >> > > > > > I can't "refute" evidence that you don't supply, Michael. You've given us no evidence that Austin thought Dramatic Verse was "the highest form of poetry" or that he tried to turn /The Human Tragedy/ into Dramatic Verse. (Even your "AllPoetry" quote doesn't say that, BTW.)
> >> >> > > > > __________
> >> >> > > > >
> >> >> > > > > “On the Position and Prospects of Poetry”
> >> >> > > > > Alfred Austin, pp. xxii and xxiii
> >> >> > > > > in:
> >> >> > > > > “THE HUMAN TRAGEDY
> >> >> > > > > BY ALFRED AUSTIN
> >> >> > > > > NEW AND REVISED EDITION
> >> >> > > > > LONDON
> >> >> > > > > MACMILLAN AND CO.
> >> >> > > > > AND NEW YORK
> >> >> > > > > 1889”
> >> >> > > > >
> >> >> > > > > “[…] so is there an ascending scale of growth and dignity in Poetry, represented by Descriptive, Lyrical, Reflective, and Epic or Dramatic Poetry; the highest Poetry being epic and dramatic poetry, because, in their full development, epic and dramatic poetry include and employ all other kinds of poetry, whereas in other forms of poetry they themselves are not included. This is what Milton must have had in mind when he penned the lines in ‘Paradise Regained’—
> >> >> > > > >
> >> >> > > > > ‘Aeolian charms and Dorian lyric odes,
> >> >> > > > > And his who gave them birth, but higher sung,
> >> >> > > > > Blind Melesigenes, then Homer called.’ “
> >> >> > > > And their circle jerk goes on …….
> >> >> > > As I said….,
> >> >> > George Dance will state his question another way, deny that he doubted that Austin said what he said, and call us names. He will sneak our research into his bllaaarrrggg and call it his.
> >> >> The proof is in the preface, George Dance.
> >>
> >> > George Dance stated in another thread: "Then open the book and start reading it. Reading a book or a poem -- not collecting second-hand opinions of it -- is the way to learn something about it."
> >> Indeed I did, NastyGoon. We were discussing your catty dismissal of Austin as a "not a very good poet" (or however you put it), which was based entirely on second-hand opinions; but it applies to him as well, since he hasn't read any of it either.
>
> > HINT: When you use a pronoun ("him"), it's advisable to first establish the identity of the individual to whom you would have it apply.
> I got a 503 error when I posted my message, so I rewrote it and reposted. "His" identity is given there. As if that mattered; I'm sure that "he" recognized himself immediately.
> >> > George Dance doesn't practice this philosophy, since George Dance obviously didn't read Austin's preface to "The Human Tragedy," or George Dance would have known that Austin considered epic and dramatic poetry to be the highest poetry.
> >> The problem with that, NastyGoon, is that I did know "that Austin considered epic and dramatic poetry to be the highest poetry" and and you already know that; since you've read where I've stated it:
> >> <quote>
> >> > > >> > > >> {Alfred Austin] believed that narrative poetry, whether epic or dramatic, was the highest or greatest form of poetry, and that great poetry must be narrative poetry. </q>
> >> https://groups.google.com/g/alt.arts.poetry.comments/c/FRQDPlBv69M/m/tYyZ547SBwAJ?hl=en
>
> > NOTE: I'm the one who pointed that out to you, Dunce.
> Now, that's not exactly true, Michael. This is what you've been purportedly "pointing out":
> <quote> Oct 24, 2023, 10:55:02 AM:
> 'Mr. Austin's" Dramatic Verse" could be referred to as a "play" or a "poem." That's what "Dramatic Verse" is.[...]
> 'Mr. Austin's poem falls under the same category as Shelley's "Prometheus Unbound" (as NancyGene has noted) and Byron's "Manfred."
> 'I have cited passages from Mr. Austin's biography (at All Poetry) and from the Preface of the 1879 and 1889 editions of his poem that support this conclusion.' [...]
> 'The fact that he *chose* to separate it into Acts shows that he wanted it to be thought of as "Dramatic Verse" (which is what he believed to be the highest form of poetry, and which he felt was exemplified in the plays of William Shakespeare).'
> https://groups.google.com/g/alt.arts.poetry.comments/c/FAv8zWFQ-lo/m/H7Fv0puqBAAJ?hl=en
>
> IOW: you were the first to *post on AAPC* that Austin believed there was a "highest form" of literature. But you were mistaken about what he thought that "highest form" was. Since rather than admit your mistake you doubled down on it, the logical conclusion is that you're now lying about what Austin actually wrote.
> > Prior to that time, you had no knowledge of it whatsoever.
> > I am so glad, Lying Michael, that you managed to show what a liar you are just before you leveled that accusation.
> >> We know you read that, since it's from the very post you copied the quotes in your OP for this thread. Was your only reason for opening a new thread so that you could misrepresent the discussion?
> >>
>
> > Since you've already spread this discussion over several threads, this new thread makes the topic (Mr. Austin's evaluation of dramatic verse) easy to locate.
> Now you're being dishonest again, Lying Michael. As those of us who can count know, your NastyGoon (whoS BEEN trying to prove Austin's epic /The Human Tragedy/ is a plAy) has both made more posts and opened more threads on the subject than I have. This is a NastyGoon thread, for instance, one I only recently discovered.
> >> > We don't think that George Dance fully reads any of the poems that George Dance features on George Dance's blaaarrrggg.
> >> Well, of course you'd think that. After all, you know that you and your monkey don't read the poems, but you also want to believe that you know more about them than I do; so of course you'd want to believe that I don't read them, either.
> >>
>
> > When I haven't read a poem, I always clearly state that fact.
>
> > With the exception of book-length poems, like Mr. Austin's, I always read them prior to responding.
> No one expects you to have read *all* of Austin's >10,000-line epic, Michael. As I said in the repost I mentioned, I sure haven't read all of it, either. But, in this case, one doesn't have to: anyone who reads even the first page of a poem can tell right away whether it's a narrative poem or a play. And, since you're still claiming that his epic is a play (a "closet drqama" in your words), the logical conclusion is that you haven't even read that much.
> > Why do you lie so much, Dunce?
> When Lying Michael is caught in a lie,
> There's one trick he is sure to try --
> "I know you are, but what am !"
> - from "TYhe Ballad of Lying Michael" (a work in progress)

Well put, and moved from the troll thread.

🙂