On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 3:11:13 PM UTC-4, Michael Pendragon wrote:
>
> Sulzbach is currently back in his FarStar sockpuppet form (currently updated to FarawayStar).
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.arts.poetry.comments/c/UUdv4i3ZuaE/m/HAP9YGELAwAJ?hl=en

That's ridiculous. FarStar was a (self-published) poet who posted here in 2008-2009, and was eventually driven away by Gary Gamble and jrsherman. Michael Monkey never met him, and knows nothing about him. George Sulzbach is a poet from Columbus and a friend of Will Dockery who began posting here in late 2016.

Michael Monkey showed up in 2014 (long after FarStar had left), and in 2017 he formed Team Monkey (with Jim Senetto and NancyGene) to troll and flame an imaginary "Team Donkey" (Will Dockery, Zod, and Stephan Pickering).

So how did Michael confuse the two? That's an amusing story. In 2022, Michael assigned me to "Team Donkey" and decided all my poetry was no good. In that light, his teammates began bumping my old poems to "prove" that no one else thought they were any good, either. But they ran into a problem with a 2009 tercet of mine called "February" which sherman had trashed but which FarStar had praised highly. So, since Michael had decided that no one liked any of my poetry except Will and Zod, FarStar must be Zod. It was a stupid idea (given the above) for which he was laughed at; and Zod adopted the "FarawayStar" just to laugh at him.

Unfortunately, Michael has never caught on to the fact Zod is laughing at him, and is convinced (as usual) that he has discovered a truth that is denied the rest of us.

On Wednesday, December 13, 2023 at 7:00:19 AM UTC-5, George J. wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 3:11:13 PM UTC-4, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> >
> > Sulzbach is currently back in his FarStar sockpuppet form (currently updated to FarawayStar).
> https://groups.google.com/g/alt.arts.poetry.comments/c/UUdv4i3ZuaE/m/HAP9YGELAwAJ?hl=en
>
> That's ridiculous. FarStar was a (self-published) poet who posted here in 2008-2009, and was eventually driven away by Gary Gamble and jrsherman. Michael Monkey never met him, and knows nothing about him. George Sulzbach is a poet from Columbus and a friend of Will Dockery who began posting here in late 2016.
>
> Michael Monkey showed up in 2014 (long after FarStar had left), and in 2017 he formed Team Monkey (with Jim Senetto and NancyGene) to troll and flame an imaginary "Team Donkey" (Will Dockery, Zod, and Stephan Pickering).
>
> So how did Michael confuse the two? That's an amusing story. In 2022, Michael assigned me to "Team Donkey" and decided all my poetry was no good. In that light, his teammates began bumping my old poems to "prove" that no one else thought they were any good, either. But they ran into a problem with a 2009 tercet of mine called "February" which sherman had trashed but which FarStar had praised highly. So, since Michael had decided that no one liked any of my poetry except Will and Zod, FarStar must be Zod. It was a stupid idea (given the above) for which he was laughed at; and Zod adopted the "FarawayStar" just to laugh at him.
>
> Unfortunately, Michael has never caught on to the fact Zod is laughing at him, and is convinced (as usual) that he has discovered a truth that is denied the rest of us.

Pendragon remains in a clueless tizzy.

🙂

On Wednesday, December 13, 2023 at 7:00:19 AM UTC-5, George J. wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 3:11:13 PM UTC-4, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> >
> > Sulzbach is currently back in his FarStar sockpuppet form (currently updated to FarawayStar).
> https://groups.google.com/g/alt.arts.poetry.comments/c/UUdv4i3ZuaE/m/HAP9YGELAwAJ?hl=en
>
> That's ridiculous. FarStar was a (self-published) poet who posted here in 2008-2009, and was eventually driven away by Gary Gamble and jrsherman. Michael Monkey never met him, and knows nothing about him. George Sulzbach is a poet from Columbus and a friend of Will Dockery who began posting here in late 2016.
>

FarStar is an anonymous Usenet name, Dunce. That's all that any of us can know for certain.

> Michael Monkey showed up in 2014 (long after FarStar had left),

2010, actually. I didn't start posting regularly until 2014.

> and in 2017 he formed Team Monkey (with Jim Senetto and NancyGene) to troll and flame an imaginary "Team Donkey" (Will Dockery, Zod, and Stephan Pickering).

There is no "Team Monkey," George.

Nor is there any conspiracy to get you and your Donkey.

There is Will Donkey who wants to flood AAPC with repostings of his poetry 24/7, those who condone/support his behavior, and the rest of us who want to engage in poetry discussions without having them buried under a spam-pile of posts where Will exchanges greetings with his "friends."

> So how did Michael confuse the two? That's an amusing story. In 2022, Michael assigned me to "Team Donkey" and decided all my poetry was no good.

That's not true, George. Are you desperately fishing for compliments?

I never said that your poetry was no good. The fact that I published your poetry in "A Year of Sundays" should serve as proof as to my opinion of it.

I have always said that your poetry is very well-written. My main complaint is that it never succeeds in reaching above the commonplace. One of your best poems had been written as a Valentine to your wife. I had noted that it was a perfect poem -- as, indeed, several of your poems are. However, the sentiment being expressed was nothing more than a reworking of "Believe Me, If All Those Endearing Young Charms," by Thomas Moore, 1808.

I have stated, time and again, that you are a highly skilled craftsman, but one who lacks an innate talent (inspiration/imagination/originality).

I suppose you perceive this as a condemnation via faint praise, but it was never intended as such.

There are millions of people who consider themselves poets, who lack both compositional skills and poetic inspiration. Will Donkey is one of them.

Your writing is worth reading because it is generally well-crafted.

Conversely, there have only been a handful of poets throughout the ages who possess what can legitimately be called "poetic genius." As noted elsewhere, it is the Mozart/Salieri scenario as depicted in the film version of "Amadeus." Being compared to Salieri is hardly a put-down, as he was a popular composer of his day, whose works are still performed today.

The differences between Mozart and Salieri can be consolidated under two major headings: natural talent vs skillful craftsmanship, and inspired vs commonplace material. Mozart is depicted as having had a direct pipeline to "God" -- composing his music in singles takes with no rewrites and few-to-no corrections/alterations. They also had an indefinable magic about them that Poe (describing poetry) would have called an "elevation of soul."

Your poetry is very good. Some of it is even excellent. But none of it has ever caused me to feel that "elevation of soul" which is what separates the handful of poetic geniuses from their peers.

>
In that light, his teammates began bumping my old poems to "prove" that no one else thought they were any good, either.
>

That simply isn't true, George.

Your Donkey and his socks make a habit of bumping ancient threads. NancyGene noted that one of these threads showed that you were incapable of receiving negative and/or constructive criticism gracefully.

Do you understand the difference between "no one else thought [my poetry was] any good" and "George Dance cannot accept criticism"?

> But they ran into a problem with a 2009 tercet of mine called "February" which sherman had trashed but which FarStar had praised highly. So, since Michael had decided that no one liked any of my poetry except Will > and Zod, FarStar must be Zod.

FarStar wrote in Zod's signature style: one-three word sentences of generic praise. If he wasn't Zod, he possessed similarly poor communication skills.

>
It was a stupid idea (given the above) for which he was laughed at; and Zod adopted the "FarawayStar" just to laugh at him.
>

"Zod" may or may not have started using the "FarawayStar' handle as a joke. Who knows? He's used, literally, dozens of aliases over the past few years.

> Unfortunately, Michael has never caught on to the fact Zod is laughing at him, and is convinced (as usual) that he has discovered a truth that is denied the rest of us.

It has always been inconsequential whether "Zod" actually posted as "FarStar," or whether "FarStar" was just someone who expressed himself similarly to "Zod." In the end, it amounts to the same thing. Both were illiterate slurp -socks.

George J. Dance wrote:

> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 3:11:13 PM UTC-4, Michael Pendragon wrote:
>>
>> Sulzbach is currently back in his FarStar sockpuppet form (currently updated to FarawayStar).
> https://groups.google.com/g/alt.arts.poetry.comments/c/UUdv4i3ZuaE/m/HAP9YGELAwAJ?hl=en

> That's ridiculous. FarStar was a (self-published) poet who posted here in 2008-2009, and was eventually driven away by Gary Gamble and jrsherman. Michael Monkey never met him, and knows nothing about him. George Sulzbach is a poet from Columbus and a friend of Will Dockery who began posting here in late 2016.

> Michael Monkey showed up in 2014 (long after FarStar had left), and in 2017 he formed Team Monkey (with Jim Senetto and NancyGene) to troll and flame an imaginary "Team Donkey" (Will Dockery, Zod, and Stephan Pickering).

> So how did Michael confuse the two? That's an amusing story. In 2022, Michael assigned me to "Team Donkey" and decided all my poetry was no good. In that light, his teammates began bumping my old poems to "prove" that no one else thought they were any good, either. But they ran into a problem with a 2009 tercet of mine called "February" which sherman had trashed but which FarStar had praised highly. So, since Michael had decided that no one liked any of my poetry except Will and Zod, FarStar must be Zod. It was a stupid idea (given the above) for which he was laughed at; and Zod adopted the "FarawayStar" just to laugh at him.

> Unfortunately, Michael has never caught on to the fact Zod is laughing at him, and is convinced (as usual) that he has discovered a truth that is denied the rest of us.

Good day, Penhead is a delusional fool who thinks he's a better poetr than T.S. Eliot, William Carlos Williams and Ezra Pound, thus his opinions are basically worthless...

"With a tear in his eye."

On Wednesday, December 13, 2023 at 11:37:22 AM UTC-5, Michael Monkey aka "Michael Pendragon" wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 13, 2023 at 7:00:19 AM UTC-5, George J. wrote:
> > On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 3:11:13 PM UTC-4, Michael Monkey aka "Michael Pendragon" wrote:
> > > Sulzbach is currently back in his FarStar sockpuppet form (currently updated to FarawayStar).
> > https://groups.google.com/g/alt.arts.poetry.comments/c/UUdv4i3ZuaE/m/HAP9YGELAwAJ?hl=en
> >
> > That's ridiculous. FarStar was a (self-published) poet who posted here in 2008-2009, and was eventually driven away by Gary Gamble and jrsherman. Michael Monkey never met him, and knows nothing about him. George Sulzbach is a poet from Columbus and a friend of Will Dockery who began posting here in late 2016.
> >
> FarStar is an anonymous Usenet name, Dunce. That's all that any of us can know for certain.

Thank you for the admission that you lied to the Dink when you claimed to know who he was, Lying Michael. In fact, you don't know who FarStar was. At the same time, you believe Iand think you know) that he's Zod. I'll let you deal with the cognitive dissonance of that yourself.

> > Michael Monkey showed up in 2014 (long after FarStar had left),
> 2010, actually. I didn't start posting regularly until 2014.
> > and in 2017 he formed Team Monkey (with Jim Senetto and NancyGene) to troll and flame an imaginary "Team Donkey" (Will Dockery, Zod, and Stephan Pickering).
> There is no "Team Monkey," George.

"Team Monkey" is just as real, or just as imaginary, as your imagined "Team Donkey", Michael.
> Nor is there any conspiracy to get you and your Donkey.
As I just said, Michael: Team Monkey was formed to "get" Will Dockery and Stephan Pickering. Team Monkey's attacks on the rest of "Team Donkey" are just -- collateral damage.

> There is Will Donkey who wants to flood AAPC with repostings of his poetry 24/7, those who condone/support his behavior, and the rest of us who want to engage in poetry discussions without having them buried under a spam-pile of posts where Will exchanges greetings with his "friends."

So, stripping out the propaganda, we can agree tht the two factions in Michael Monkey's War are:
GROUP A: Those who are out to "get" Will Dockery (Stephan Pickering having been "got" in the interval).
GROUP B: Will Dockery, and those here who are not out to "get" him.

> > So how did Michael confuse the two? That's an amusing story. In 2022, Michael assigned me to "Team Donkey" and decided all my poetry was no good.
> That's not true, George. Are you desperately fishing for compliments?
>
> I never said that your poetry was no good. The fact that I published your poetry in "A Year of Sundays" should serve as proof as to my opinion of it.

I hope you're simply confused about dates again, Michael, and that you have not published any of my poetry in AYOS in 2022 or 2023.

> I have always said that your poetry is very well-written. My main complaint is that it never succeeds in reaching above the commonplace. One of your best poems had been written as a Valentine to your wife. I had noted that it was a perfect poem -- as, indeed, several of your poems are. However, the sentiment being expressed was nothing more than a reworking of "Believe Me, If All Those Endearing Young Charms," by Thomas Moore, 1808.
>
> I have stated, time and again, that you are a highly skilled craftsman, but one who lacks an innate talent (inspiration/imagination/originality).
>
> I suppose you perceive this as a condemnation via faint praise, but it was never intended as such.
Offhand I don't remember perceiving it in the first place, Michael. Not that you're lying -- you probably have stated it "time and again," but as we know you state many contradictory things "time and again". But there's no reason to go into that; this looks like a diversion, if not an attempt at deliberate deflection.

> There are millions of people who consider themselves poets, who lack both compositional skills and poetic inspiration. Will Donkey is one of them.
>
> Your writing is worth reading because it is generally well-crafted.
>
> Conversely, there have only been a handful of poets throughout the ages who possess what can legitimately be called "poetic genius." As noted elsewhere, it is the Mozart/Salieri scenario as depicted in the film version of "Amadeus." Being compared to Salieri is hardly a put-down, as he was a popular composer of his day, whose works are still performed today.
>
> The differences between Mozart and Salieri can be consolidated under two major headings: natural talent vs skillful craftsmanship, and inspired vs commonplace material. Mozart is depicted as having had a direct pipeline to "God" -- composing his music in singles takes with no rewrites and few-to-no corrections/alterations. They also had an indefinable magic about them that Poe (describing poetry) would have called an "elevation of soul."
>
> Your poetry is very good. Some of it is even excellent. But none of it has ever caused me to feel that "elevation of soul" which is what separates the handful of poetic geniuses from their peers.

That you'd think your opinion of my poetry is the most important thing to talk about looks like just another example of your narcissism, Michael. while it might be interesting to discuss in its own thread. But it seems even more an attempt at deflection, which can be profitably snipped the next round. I only mentioned it to explain why you were convinced that FarSTar was Zod.
> In that light, his teammates began bumping my old poems to "prove" that no one else thought they were any good, either.
> >
> That simply isn't true, George.
>
> Your Donkey and his socks make a habit of bumping ancient threads. NancyGene noted that one of these threads showed that you were incapable of receiving negative and/or constructive criticism gracefully.

Wow! "We didn't bump the thread; Team Donkey bumped the thread." Thank you again for another obvious lie, Lying Michael; one that can easily be disproved just by looking at the posts in the thread -- I won't copy the whole thing, but here's the relevant section:

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

Feb 16, 2009, 9:51:25 AM
On Feb 10, 11:36 pm, "ggamble" <g...@youbet.net> wrote: > On 10-Feb-2009, FarStar
ggamble's profile photo
ggamble
Feb 28, 2009, 11:16:17 AM
On 11-Feb-2009, George Dance <george...@yahoo.ca> wrote: > > > >February (snip)
George Dance's profile photo
George Dance
Feb 28, 2009, 8:03:52 PM
On Feb 28, 11:16 am, "ggamble" <g...@youbet.net> wrote:
Will Dockery's profile photo
Will Dockery
Apr 12, 2009, 6:25:31 AM
"George Dance" wrote: >On Feb 28, 11:16 am, "ggamble" wrote: > On 11-Feb-
NancyGene's profile photo
NancyGene
Mar 18, 2023, 11:33:00 AM
On Monday, February 9, 2009 at 11:31:36 PM UTC, George Dance wrote: > February > Unnoticed
Michael Pendragon's profile photo
Michael Pendragon
Mar 18, 2023, 7:00:15 PM
On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 11:33:00 AM UTC-4, NancyGene wrote: > On Monday, February 9, 2009
Will Dockery's profile photo
Will Dockery
Mar 18, 2023, 8:01:45 PM
George J. Dance wrote: > > February > Unnoticed dreams: > ocean waves in winter, > the
George Dance's profile photo
George Dance
Mar 19, 2023, 9:41:08 AM
On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 11:33:00 AM UTC-4, NancyGene wrote: > This thread, from 2009, is a
George Dance's profile photo
George Dance
Mar 19, 2023, 9:45:16 AM
On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 8:01:45 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote: > George J. Dance wrote: >

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

As noted, this thread was bumped by NastyGoon, followed by Michael Monkey (both, by some strange coindidence, members of the "non-existnt" Team Monkey).

> Do you understand the difference between "no one else thought [my poetry was] any good" and "George Dance cannot accept criticism"?

Oh, sure. just telling someone "Your poetry sucks" doesn't do much to win a flame war. Telling them "you're too immature to accept the truth that your poetry sucks" is much harder for your target to respond to. jr sherman, whom we all know from the thread I just quoted, was a master of that sort of trollery.

> > But they ran into a problem with a 2009 tercet of mine called "February" which sherman had trashed but which FarStar had praised highly. So, since Michael had decided that no one liked any of my poetry except Will and Zod, FarStar must be Zod.

> FarStar wrote in Zod's signature style: one-three word sentences of generic praise.

No, Lying Michael, he did not. (That makes three lies from you in this thread, in your first post). Heres FarStar's only comment on the poem we're discussing:

"This is the most tender love poem I've ever heard
very much so reminiscent of a Haiku in it's true form"

George J. Dance wrote:

> On Wednesday, December 13, 2023 at 11:37:22 AM UTC-5, Michael Monkey aka "Michael Pendragon" wrote:
>> On Wednesday, December 13, 2023 at 7:00:19 AM UTC-5, George J. wrote:
>> > On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 3:11:13 PM UTC-4, Michael Monkey aka "Michael Pendragon" wrote:
>
>> > > Sulzbach is currently back in his FarStar sockpuppet form (currently updated to FarawayStar).
>> > https://groups.google.com/g/alt.arts.poetry.comments/c/UUdv4i3ZuaE/m/HAP9YGELAwAJ?hl=en
>> >
>> > That's ridiculous. FarStar was a (self-published) poet who posted here in 2008-2009, and was eventually driven away by Gary Gamble and jrsherman. Michael Monkey never met him, and knows nothing about him. George Sulzbach is a poet from Columbus and a friend of Will Dockery who began posting here in late 2016.
>> >
>> FarStar is an anonymous Usenet name, Dunce. That's all that any of us can know for certain.

> Thank you for the admission that you lied to the Dink when you claimed to know who he was, Lying Michael. In fact, you don't know who FarStar was. At the same time, you believe Iand think you know) that he's Zod. I'll let you deal with the cognitive dissonance of that yourself.

>> > Michael Monkey showed up in 2014 (long after FarStar had left),
>> 2010, actually. I didn't start posting regularly until 2014.
>> > and in 2017 he formed Team Monkey (with Jim Senetto and NancyGene) to troll and flame an imaginary "Team Donkey" (Will Dockery, Zod, and Stephan Pickering).
>> There is no "Team Monkey," George.

> "Team Monkey" is just as real, or just as imaginary, as your imagined "Team Donkey", Michael.

>> Nor is there any conspiracy to get you and your Donkey.

> As I just said, Michael: Team Monkey was formed to "get" Will Dockery and Stephan Pickering. Team Monkey's attacks on the rest of "Team Donkey" are just -- collateral damage.

>> There is Will Donkey who wants to flood AAPC with repostings of his poetry 24/7, those who condone/support his behavior, and the rest of us who want to engage in poetry discussions without having them buried under a spam-pile of posts where Will exchanges greetings with his "friends."

> So, stripping out the propaganda, we can agree tht the two factions in Michael Monkey's War are:
> GROUP A: Those who are out to "get" Will Dockery (Stephan Pickering having been "got" in the interval).
> GROUP B: Will Dockery, and those here who are not out to "get" him.

>> > So how did Michael confuse the two? That's an amusing story. In 2022, Michael assigned me to "Team Donkey" and decided all my poetry was no good.
>> That's not true, George. Are you desperately fishing for compliments?
>>
>> I never said that your poetry was no good. The fact that I published your poetry in "A Year of Sundays" should serve as proof as to my opinion of it.

> I hope you're simply confused about dates again, Michael, and that you have not published any of my poetry in AYOS in 2022 or 2023.

>> I have always said that your poetry is very well-written. My main complaint is that it never succeeds in reaching above the commonplace. One of your best poems had been written as a Valentine to your wife. I had noted that it was a perfect poem -- as, indeed, several of your poems are. However, the sentiment being expressed was nothing more than a reworking of "Believe Me, If All Those Endearing Young Charms," by Thomas Moore, 1808.
>>
>> I have stated, time and again, that you are a highly skilled craftsman, but one who lacks an innate talent (inspiration/imagination/originality).
>>
>> I suppose you perceive this as a condemnation via faint praise, but it was never intended as such.

> Offhand I don't remember perceiving it in the first place, Michael. Not that you're lying -- you probably have stated it "time and again," but as we know you state many contradictory things "time and again". But there's no reason to go into that; this looks like a diversion, if not an attempt at deliberate deflection.

>> There are millions of people who consider themselves poets, who lack both compositional skills and poetic inspiration. Will Donkey is one of them.
>>
>> Your writing is worth reading because it is generally well-crafted.
>>
>> Conversely, there have only been a handful of poets throughout the ages who possess what can legitimately be called "poetic genius." As noted elsewhere, it is the Mozart/Salieri scenario as depicted in the film version of "Amadeus." Being compared to Salieri is hardly a put-down, as he was a popular composer of his day, whose works are still performed today.
>>
>> The differences between Mozart and Salieri can be consolidated under two major headings: natural talent vs skillful craftsmanship, and inspired vs commonplace material. Mozart is depicted as having had a direct pipeline to "God" -- composing his music in singles takes with no rewrites and few-to-no corrections/alterations. They also had an indefinable magic about them that Poe (describing poetry) would have called an "elevation of soul."
>>
>> Your poetry is very good. Some of it is even excellent. But none of it has ever caused me to feel that "elevation of soul" which is what separates the handful of poetic geniuses from their peers.

> That you'd think your opinion of my poetry is the most important thing to talk about looks like just another example of your narcissism, Michael. while it might be interesting to discuss in its own thread. But it seems even more an attempt at deflection, which can be profitably snipped the next round. I only mentioned it to explain why you were convinced that FarSTar was Zod.

>> In that light, his teammates began bumping my old poems to "prove" that no one else thought they were any good, either.
>> >
>> That simply isn't true, George.
>>
>> Your Donkey and his socks make a habit of bumping ancient threads. NancyGene noted that one of these threads showed that you were incapable of receiving negative and/or constructive criticism gracefully.

> Wow! "We didn't bump the thread; Team Donkey bumped the thread." Thank you again for another obvious lie, Lying Michael; one that can easily be disproved just by looking at the posts in the thread -- I won't copy the whole thing, but here's the relevant section:

> vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

> Feb 16, 2009, 9:51:25 AM
> On Feb 10, 11:36 pm, "ggamble" <g...@youbet.net> wrote: > On 10-Feb-2009, FarStar
> ggamble's profile photo
> ggamble
> Feb 28, 2009, 11:16:17 AM
> On 11-Feb-2009, George Dance <george...@yahoo.ca> wrote: > > > >February (snip)
> George Dance's profile photo
> George Dance
> Feb 28, 2009, 8:03:52 PM
> On Feb 28, 11:16 am, "ggamble" <g...@youbet.net> wrote:
> Will Dockery's profile photo
> Will Dockery
> Apr 12, 2009, 6:25:31 AM
> "George Dance" wrote: >On Feb 28, 11:16 am, "ggamble" wrote: > On 11-Feb-
> NancyGene's profile photo
> NancyGene
> Mar 18, 2023, 11:33:00 AM
> On Monday, February 9, 2009 at 11:31:36 PM UTC, George Dance wrote: > February > Unnoticed
> Michael Pendragon's profile photo
> Michael Pendragon
> Mar 18, 2023, 7:00:15 PM
> On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 11:33:00 AM UTC-4, NancyGene wrote: > On Monday, February 9, 2009
> Will Dockery's profile photo
> Will Dockery
> Mar 18, 2023, 8:01:45 PM
> George J. Dance wrote: > > February > Unnoticed dreams: > ocean waves in winter, > the
> George Dance's profile photo
> George Dance
> Mar 19, 2023, 9:41:08 AM
> On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 11:33:00 AM UTC-4, NancyGene wrote: > This thread, from 2009, is a
> George Dance's profile photo
> George Dance
> Mar 19, 2023, 9:45:16 AM
> On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 8:01:45 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote: > George J. Dance wrote: >

> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

> As noted, this thread was bumped by NastyGoon, followed by Michael Monkey (both, by some strange coindidence, members of the "non-existnt" Team Monkey).

>> Do you understand the difference between "no one else thought [my poetry was] any good" and "George Dance cannot accept criticism"?

> Oh, sure. just telling someone "Your poetry sucks" doesn't do much to win a flame war. Telling them "you're too immature to accept the truth that your poetry sucks" is much harder for your target to respond to. jr sherman, whom we all know from the thread I just quoted, was a master of that sort of trollery.

>> > But they ran into a problem with a 2009 tercet of mine called "February" which sherman had trashed but which FarStar had praised highly. So, since Michael had decided that no one liked any of my poetry except Will and Zod, FarStar must be Zod.

George J. Dance wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 13, 2023 at 11:37:22 AM UTC-5, Michael Monkey aka "Michael Pendragon" wrote:
>> On Wednesday, December 13, 2023 at 7:00:19 AM UTC-5, George J. wrote:
> >> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 3:11:13 PM UTC-4, Michael Monkey aka "Michael Pendragon" wrote:
>
> >> > > Sulzbach is currently back in his FarStar sockpuppet form (currently updated to FarawayStar).
> >> > https://groups.google.com/g/alt.arts.poetry.comments/c/UUdv4i3ZuaE/m/HAP9YGELAwAJ?hl=en
> >> >
> >> > That's ridiculous. FarStar was a (self-published) poet who posted here in 2008-2009, and was eventually driven away by Gary Gamble and jrsherman. Michael Monkey never met him, and knows nothing about him. George Sulzbach is a poet from Columbus and a friend of Will Dockery who began posting here in late 2016.
> >> >
> >> FarStar is an anonymous Usenet name, Dunce. That's all that any of us can know for certain.
>
> > Thank you for the admission that you lied to the Dink when you claimed to know who he was, Lying Michael. In fact, you don't know who FarStar was. At the same time, you believe Iand think you know) that he's Zod. I'll let you deal with the cognitive dissonance of that yourself.
>
> >> > Michael Monkey showed up in 2014 (long after FarStar had left),
> >> 2010, actually. I didn't start posting regularly until 2014.
> >> > and in 2017 he formed Team Monkey (with Jim Senetto and NancyGene) to troll and flame an imaginary "Team Donkey" (Will Dockery, Zod, and Stephan Pickering).
> >> There is no "Team Monkey," George.
>
> > "Team Monkey" is just as real, or just as imaginary, as your imagined "Team Donkey", Michael.
>
> >> Nor is there any conspiracy to get you and your Donkey.
>
> > As I just said, Michael: Team Monkey was formed to "get" Will Dockery and Stephan Pickering. Team Monkey's attacks on the rest of "Team Donkey" are just -- collateral damage.
>
> >> There is Will Donkey who wants to flood AAPC with repostings of his poetry 24/7, those who condone/support his behavior, and the rest of us who want to engage in poetry discussions without having them buried under a spam-pile of posts where Will exchanges greetings with his "friends."
>
> > So, stripping out the propaganda, we can agree tht the two factions in Michael Monkey's War are:
> > GROUP A: Those who are out to "get" Will Dockery (Stephan Pickering having been "got" in the interval).
> > GROUP B: Will Dockery, and those here who are not out to "get" him.
>
> >> > So how did Michael confuse the two? That's an amusing story. In 2022, Michael assigned me to "Team Donkey" and decided all my poetry was no good.
> >> That's not true, George. Are you desperately fishing for compliments?
> >>
> >> I never said that your poetry was no good. The fact that I published your poetry in "A Year of Sundays" should serve as proof as to my opinion of it.
>
> > I hope you're simply confused about dates again, Michael, and that you have not published any of my poetry in AYOS in 2022 or 2023.
>
> >> I have always said that your poetry is very well-written. My main complaint is that it never succeeds in reaching above the commonplace. One of your best poems had been written as a Valentine to your wife. I had noted that it was a perfect poem -- as, indeed, several of your poems are. However, the sentiment being expressed was nothing more than a reworking of "Believe Me, If All Those Endearing Young Charms," by Thomas Moore, 1808.
> >>
> >> I have stated, time and again, that you are a highly skilled craftsman, but one who lacks an innate talent (inspiration/imagination/originality).
> >>
> >> I suppose you perceive this as a condemnation via faint praise, but it was never intended as such.
>
> > Offhand I don't remember perceiving it in the first place, Michael. Not that you're lying -- you probably have stated it "time and again," but as we know you state many contradictory things "time and again". But there's no reason to go into that; this looks like a diversion, if not an attempt at deliberate deflection.
>
> >> There are millions of people who consider themselves poets, who lack both compositional skills and poetic inspiration. Will Donkey is one of them..
> >>
> >> Your writing is worth reading because it is generally well-crafted.
> >>
> >> Conversely, there have only been a handful of poets throughout the ages who possess what can legitimately be called "poetic genius." As noted elsewhere, it is the Mozart/Salieri scenario as depicted in the film version of "Amadeus." Being compared to Salieri is hardly a put-down, as he was a popular composer of his day, whose works are still performed today.
> >>
> >> The differences between Mozart and Salieri can be consolidated under two major headings: natural talent vs skillful craftsmanship, and inspired vs commonplace material. Mozart is depicted as having had a direct pipeline to "God" -- composing his music in singles takes with no rewrites and few-to-no corrections/alterations. They also had an indefinable magic about them that Poe (describing poetry) would have called an "elevation of soul."
> >>
> >> Your poetry is very good. Some of it is even excellent. But none of it has ever caused me to feel that "elevation of soul" which is what separates the handful of poetic geniuses from their peers.
>
> > That you'd think your opinion of my poetry is the most important thing to talk about looks like just another example of your narcissism, Michael. while it might be interesting to discuss in its own thread. But it seems even more an attempt at deflection, which can be profitably snipped the next round. I only mentioned it to explain why you were convinced that FarSTar was Zod.
>
> >> In that light, his teammates began bumping my old poems to "prove" that no one else thought they were any good, either.
> >> >
> >> That simply isn't true, George.
> >>
> >> Your Donkey and his socks make a habit of bumping ancient threads. NancyGene noted that one of these threads showed that you were incapable of receiving negative and/or constructive criticism gracefully.
>
> > Wow! "We didn't bump the thread; Team Donkey bumped the thread." Thank you again for another obvious lie, Lying Michael; one that can easily be disproved just by looking at the posts in the thread -- I won't copy the whole thing, but here's the relevant section:
>
> > vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
>
> > Feb 16, 2009, 9:51:25 AM
> > On Feb 10, 11:36 pm, "ggamble" <g...@youbet.net> wrote: > On 10-Feb-2009, FarStar
> > ggamble's profile photo
> > ggamble
> > Feb 28, 2009, 11:16:17 AM
> > On 11-Feb-2009, George Dance <george...@yahoo.ca> wrote: > > > >February (snip)
> > George Dance's profile photo
> > George Dance
> > Feb 28, 2009, 8:03:52 PM
> > On Feb 28, 11:16 am, "ggamble" <g...@youbet.net> wrote:
> > Will Dockery's profile photo
> > Will Dockery
> > Apr 12, 2009, 6:25:31 AM
> > "George Dance" wrote: >On Feb 28, 11:16 am, "ggamble" wrote: > On 11-Feb-
> > NancyGene's profile photo
> > NancyGene
> > Mar 18, 2023, 11:33:00 AM
> > On Monday, February 9, 2009 at 11:31:36 PM UTC, George Dance wrote: > February > Unnoticed
> > Michael Pendragon's profile photo
> > Michael Pendragon
> > Mar 18, 2023, 7:00:15 PM
> > On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 11:33:00 AM UTC-4, NancyGene wrote: > On Monday, February 9, 2009
> > Will Dockery's profile photo
> > Will Dockery
> > Mar 18, 2023, 8:01:45 PM
> > George J. Dance wrote: > > February > Unnoticed dreams: > ocean waves in winter, > the
> > George Dance's profile photo
> > George Dance
> > Mar 19, 2023, 9:41:08 AM
> > On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 11:33:00 AM UTC-4, NancyGene wrote: > This thread, from 2009, is a
> > George Dance's profile photo
> > George Dance
> > Mar 19, 2023, 9:45:16 AM
> > On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 8:01:45 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote: > George J. Dance wrote: >
>
> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> > As noted, this thread was bumped by NastyGoon, followed by Michael Monkey (both, by some strange coindidence, members of the "non-existnt" Team Monkey).
>
> >> Do you understand the difference between "no one else thought [my poetry was] any good" and "George Dance cannot accept criticism"?
>
> > Oh, sure. just telling someone "Your poetry sucks" doesn't do much to win a flame war. Telling them "you're too immature to accept the truth that your poetry sucks" is much harder for your target to respond to. jr sherman, whom we all know from the thread I just quoted, was a master of that sort of trollery.
>
> >> > But they ran into a problem with a 2009 tercet of mine called "February" which sherman had trashed but which FarStar had praised highly. So, since Michael had decided that no one liked any of my poetry except Will and Zod, FarStar must be Zod.
>
> >> FarStar wrote in Zod's signature style: one-three word sentences of generic praise.
>
> > No, Lying Michael, he did not. (That makes three lies from you in this thread, in your first post). Heres FarStar's only comment on the poem we're discussing:
>
> > "This is the most tender love poem I've ever heard
> > very much so reminiscent of a Haiku in it's true form"
>
> > Nothing profound about it, but not "generic praise" and not a "three-word sentence" (21 =/= 3).
>
> >> If he wasn't Zod, he possessed similarly poor communication skills.
>
> > He could have done with some repunctuation, and he has the same apostrophe confusion that Team Monkey suffers from. But all in all, I think he communicated what he wanted to say quite effectively. So do you, or you wouldn't have begun lying about him.
>
> >> It was a stupid idea (given the above) for which he was laughed at; and Zod adopted the "FarawayStar" just to laugh at him.
> >> >
> >> "Zod" may or may not have started using the "FarawayStar' handle as a joke. Who knows?
>
> > Those of us who know Zod, and can ask him, of course. You have a nasty habit of assuming that if you don't know something, then no one knows it. That's the second time you've done it in this thread alone; AFAICS, it only reflects your overwheening narcissism.
>
> >> He's used, literally, dozens of aliases over the past few years.
>
> > Sure he has, and we know why: because someone of some team (surely *not* Team Monkey, of course, since they don't exist :) keeps opening sock accounts using his aliases in order to impersonate him.
>
> >> > Unfortunately, Michael has never caught on to the fact Zod is laughing at him, and is convinced (as usual) that he has discovered a truth that is denied the rest of us.
> >> It has always been inconsequential whether "Zod" actually posted as "FarStar," or whether "FarStar" was just someone who expressed himself similarly to "Zod."
>
> > Which explains how Michael Monkey deals with the cognitive dissonance of claiming and believing that "FarStar" is Zod, while knowing that in fact FarStar is not Zod -- by blanking out (ie, repressing) what's true in fact as "inconsequential".
>
> >> In the end, it amounts to the same thing. Both were illiterate slurp -socks.
>
> > If Zod is a "sock" because he doesn't use his real name, then so are "Michael Pendragon," "NancyGene," and "Ash Wurthing." Whether he "slurps" more than any of those three is, to say the least questionable.
>
> > "Slurp-socks" is a mildly amusing term, though, one I expect to use in the future.
> Obviously, we old timers here remember Farstar aka Victor et al.

On Saturday, December 16, 2023 at 6:25:35 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> George J. Dance wrote:
> > On Wednesday, December 13, 2023 at 11:37:22 AM UTC-5, Michael Monkey aka "Michael Pendragon" wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, December 13, 2023 at 7:00:19 AM UTC-5, George J. wrote:
> > >> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 3:11:13 PM UTC-4, Michael Monkey aka "Michael Pendragon" wrote:
> >
> > >> > > Sulzbach is currently back in his FarStar sockpuppet form (currently updated to FarawayStar).
> > >> > https://groups.google.com/g/alt.arts.poetry.comments/c/UUdv4i3ZuaE/m/HAP9YGELAwAJ?hl=en
> > >> >
> > >> > That's ridiculous. FarStar was a (self-published) poet who posted here in 2008-2009, and was eventually driven away by Gary Gamble and jrsherman. Michael Monkey never met him, and knows nothing about him. George Sulzbach is a poet from Columbus and a friend of Will Dockery who began posting here in late 2016.
> > >> >
> > >> FarStar is an anonymous Usenet name, Dunce. That's all that any of us can know for certain.
> >
> > > Thank you for the admission that you lied to the Dink when you claimed to know who he was, Lying Michael. In fact, you don't know who FarStar was. At the same time, you believe Iand think you know) that he's Zod. I'll let you deal with the cognitive dissonance of that yourself.
> >
> > >> > Michael Monkey showed up in 2014 (long after FarStar had left),
> > >> 2010, actually. I didn't start posting regularly until 2014.
> > >> > and in 2017 he formed Team Monkey (with Jim Senetto and NancyGene) to troll and flame an imaginary "Team Donkey" (Will Dockery, Zod, and Stephan Pickering).
> > >> There is no "Team Monkey," George.
> >
> > > "Team Monkey" is just as real, or just as imaginary, as your imagined "Team Donkey", Michael.
> >
> > >> Nor is there any conspiracy to get you and your Donkey.
> >
> > > As I just said, Michael: Team Monkey was formed to "get" Will Dockery and Stephan Pickering. Team Monkey's attacks on the rest of "Team Donkey" are just -- collateral damage.
> >
> > >> There is Will Donkey who wants to flood AAPC with repostings of his poetry 24/7, those who condone/support his behavior, and the rest of us who want to engage in poetry discussions without having them buried under a spam-pile of posts where Will exchanges greetings with his "friends."
> >
> > > So, stripping out the propaganda, we can agree tht the two factions in Michael Monkey's War are:
> > > GROUP A: Those who are out to "get" Will Dockery (Stephan Pickering having been "got" in the interval).
> > > GROUP B: Will Dockery, and those here who are not out to "get" him.
> >
> > >> > So how did Michael confuse the two? That's an amusing story. In 2022, Michael assigned me to "Team Donkey" and decided all my poetry was no good.
> > >> That's not true, George. Are you desperately fishing for compliments?
> > >>
> > >> I never said that your poetry was no good. The fact that I published your poetry in "A Year of Sundays" should serve as proof as to my opinion of it.
> >
> > > I hope you're simply confused about dates again, Michael, and that you have not published any of my poetry in AYOS in 2022 or 2023.
> >
> > >> I have always said that your poetry is very well-written. My main complaint is that it never succeeds in reaching above the commonplace. One of your best poems had been written as a Valentine to your wife. I had noted that it was a perfect poem -- as, indeed, several of your poems are. However, the sentiment being expressed was nothing more than a reworking of "Believe Me, If All Those Endearing Young Charms," by Thomas Moore, 1808.
> > >>
> > >> I have stated, time and again, that you are a highly skilled craftsman, but one who lacks an innate talent (inspiration/imagination/originality).
> > >>
> > >> I suppose you perceive this as a condemnation via faint praise, but it was never intended as such.
> >
> > > Offhand I don't remember perceiving it in the first place, Michael. Not that you're lying -- you probably have stated it "time and again," but as we know you state many contradictory things "time and again". But there's no reason to go into that; this looks like a diversion, if not an attempt at deliberate deflection.
> >
> > >> There are millions of people who consider themselves poets, who lack both compositional skills and poetic inspiration. Will Donkey is one of them.
> > >>
> > >> Your writing is worth reading because it is generally well-crafted.
> > >>
> > >> Conversely, there have only been a handful of poets throughout the ages who possess what can legitimately be called "poetic genius." As noted elsewhere, it is the Mozart/Salieri scenario as depicted in the film version of "Amadeus." Being compared to Salieri is hardly a put-down, as he was a popular composer of his day, whose works are still performed today.
> > >>
> > >> The differences between Mozart and Salieri can be consolidated under two major headings: natural talent vs skillful craftsmanship, and inspired vs commonplace material. Mozart is depicted as having had a direct pipeline to "God" -- composing his music in singles takes with no rewrites and few-to-no corrections/alterations. They also had an indefinable magic about them that Poe (describing poetry) would have called an "elevation of soul."
> > >>
> > >> Your poetry is very good. Some of it is even excellent. But none of it has ever caused me to feel that "elevation of soul" which is what separates the handful of poetic geniuses from their peers.
> >
> > > That you'd think your opinion of my poetry is the most important thing to talk about looks like just another example of your narcissism, Michael.. while it might be interesting to discuss in its own thread. But it seems even more an attempt at deflection, which can be profitably snipped the next round. I only mentioned it to explain why you were convinced that FarSTar was Zod.
> >
> > >> In that light, his teammates began bumping my old poems to "prove" that no one else thought they were any good, either.
> > >> >
> > >> That simply isn't true, George.
> > >>
> > >> Your Donkey and his socks make a habit of bumping ancient threads. NancyGene noted that one of these threads showed that you were incapable of receiving negative and/or constructive criticism gracefully.
> >
> > > Wow! "We didn't bump the thread; Team Donkey bumped the thread." Thank you again for another obvious lie, Lying Michael; one that can easily be disproved just by looking at the posts in the thread -- I won't copy the whole thing, but here's the relevant section:
> >
> > > vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
> >
> > > Feb 16, 2009, 9:51:25 AM
> > > On Feb 10, 11:36 pm, "ggamble" <g...@youbet.net> wrote: > On 10-Feb-2009, FarStar
> > > ggamble's profile photo
> > > ggamble
> > > Feb 28, 2009, 11:16:17 AM
> > > On 11-Feb-2009, George Dance <george...@yahoo.ca> wrote: > > > >February (snip)
> > > George Dance's profile photo
> > > George Dance
> > > Feb 28, 2009, 8:03:52 PM
> > > On Feb 28, 11:16 am, "ggamble" <g...@youbet.net> wrote:
> > > Will Dockery's profile photo
> > > Will Dockery
> > > Apr 12, 2009, 6:25:31 AM
> > > "George Dance" wrote: >On Feb 28, 11:16 am, "ggamble" wrote: > On 11-Feb-
> > > NancyGene's profile photo
> > > NancyGene
> > > Mar 18, 2023, 11:33:00 AM
> > > On Monday, February 9, 2009 at 11:31:36 PM UTC, George Dance wrote: > February > Unnoticed
> > > Michael Pendragon's profile photo
> > > Michael Pendragon
> > > Mar 18, 2023, 7:00:15 PM
> > > On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 11:33:00 AM UTC-4, NancyGene wrote: > On Monday, February 9, 2009
> > > Will Dockery's profile photo
> > > Will Dockery
> > > Mar 18, 2023, 8:01:45 PM
> > > George J. Dance wrote: > > February > Unnoticed dreams: > ocean waves in winter, > the
> > > George Dance's profile photo
> > > George Dance
> > > Mar 19, 2023, 9:41:08 AM
> > > On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 11:33:00 AM UTC-4, NancyGene wrote: > This thread, from 2009, is a
> > > George Dance's profile photo
> > > George Dance
> > > Mar 19, 2023, 9:45:16 AM
> > > On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 8:01:45 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote: > George J. Dance wrote: >
> >
> > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >
> > > As noted, this thread was bumped by NastyGoon, followed by Michael Monkey (both, by some strange coindidence, members of the "non-existnt" Team Monkey).
> >
> > >> Do you understand the difference between "no one else thought [my poetry was] any good" and "George Dance cannot accept criticism"?
> >
> > > Oh, sure. just telling someone "Your poetry sucks" doesn't do much to win a flame war. Telling them "you're too immature to accept the truth that your poetry sucks" is much harder for your target to respond to. jr sherman, whom we all know from the thread I just quoted, was a master of that sort of trollery.

Will Dockery wrote:

> George J. Dance wrote:
>> On Wednesday, December 13, 2023 at 11:37:22 AM UTC-5, Michael Monkey aka "Michael Pendragon" wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, December 13, 2023 at 7:00:19 AM UTC-5, George J. wrote:
>> >> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 3:11:13 PM UTC-4, Michael Monkey aka "Michael Pendragon" wrote:
>>
>> >> > > Sulzbach is currently back in his FarStar sockpuppet form (currently updated to FarawayStar).
>> >> > https://groups.google.com/g/alt.arts.poetry.comments/c/UUdv4i3ZuaE/m/HAP9YGELAwAJ?hl=en
>> >> >
>> >> > That's ridiculous. FarStar was a (self-published) poet who posted here in 2008-2009, and was eventually driven away by Gary Gamble and jrsherman. Michael Monkey never met him, and knows nothing about him. George Sulzbach is a poet from Columbus and a friend of Will Dockery who began posting here in late 2016.
>> >> >
>> >> FarStar is an anonymous Usenet name, Dunce. That's all that any of us can know for certain.
>>
>> > Thank you for the admission that you lied to the Dink when you claimed to know who he was, Lying Michael. In fact, you don't know who FarStar was. At the same time, you believe Iand think you know) that he's Zod. I'll let you deal with the cognitive dissonance of that yourself.
>>
>> >> > Michael Monkey showed up in 2014 (long after FarStar had left),
>> >> 2010, actually. I didn't start posting regularly until 2014.
>> >> > and in 2017 he formed Team Monkey (with Jim Senetto and NancyGene) to troll and flame an imaginary "Team Donkey" (Will Dockery, Zod, and Stephan Pickering).
>> >> There is no "Team Monkey," George.
>>
>> > "Team Monkey" is just as real, or just as imaginary, as your imagined "Team Donkey", Michael.
>>
>> >> Nor is there any conspiracy to get you and your Donkey.
>>
>> > As I just said, Michael: Team Monkey was formed to "get" Will Dockery and Stephan Pickering. Team Monkey's attacks on the rest of "Team Donkey" are just -- collateral damage.
>>
>> >> There is Will Donkey who wants to flood AAPC with repostings of his poetry 24/7, those who condone/support his behavior, and the rest of us who want to engage in poetry discussions without having them buried under a spam-pile of posts where Will exchanges greetings with his "friends."
>>
>> > So, stripping out the propaganda, we can agree tht the two factions in Michael Monkey's War are:
>> > GROUP A: Those who are out to "get" Will Dockery (Stephan Pickering having been "got" in the interval).
>> > GROUP B: Will Dockery, and those here who are not out to "get" him.
>>
>> >> > So how did Michael confuse the two? That's an amusing story. In 2022, Michael assigned me to "Team Donkey" and decided all my poetry was no good.
>> >> That's not true, George. Are you desperately fishing for compliments?
>> >>
>> >> I never said that your poetry was no good. The fact that I published your poetry in "A Year of Sundays" should serve as proof as to my opinion of it.
>>
>> > I hope you're simply confused about dates again, Michael, and that you have not published any of my poetry in AYOS in 2022 or 2023.
>>
>> >> I have always said that your poetry is very well-written. My main complaint is that it never succeeds in reaching above the commonplace. One of your best poems had been written as a Valentine to your wife. I had noted that it was a perfect poem -- as, indeed, several of your poems are. However, the sentiment being expressed was nothing more than a reworking of "Believe Me, If All Those Endearing Young Charms," by Thomas Moore, 1808.
>> >>
>> >> I have stated, time and again, that you are a highly skilled craftsman, but one who lacks an innate talent (inspiration/imagination/originality).
>> >>
>> >> I suppose you perceive this as a condemnation via faint praise, but it was never intended as such.
>>
>> > Offhand I don't remember perceiving it in the first place, Michael. Not that you're lying -- you probably have stated it "time and again," but as we know you state many contradictory things "time and again". But there's no reason to go into that; this looks like a diversion, if not an attempt at deliberate deflection.
>>
>> >> There are millions of people who consider themselves poets, who lack both compositional skills and poetic inspiration. Will Donkey is one of them..
>> >>
>> >> Your writing is worth reading because it is generally well-crafted.
>> >>
>> >> Conversely, there have only been a handful of poets throughout the ages who possess what can legitimately be called "poetic genius." As noted elsewhere, it is the Mozart/Salieri scenario as depicted in the film version of "Amadeus." Being compared to Salieri is hardly a put-down, as he was a popular composer of his day, whose works are still performed today.
>> >>
>> >> The differences between Mozart and Salieri can be consolidated under two major headings: natural talent vs skillful craftsmanship, and inspired vs commonplace material. Mozart is depicted as having had a direct pipeline to "God" -- composing his music in singles takes with no rewrites and few-to-no corrections/alterations. They also had an indefinable magic about them that Poe (describing poetry) would have called an "elevation of soul."
>> >>
>> >> Your poetry is very good. Some of it is even excellent. But none of it has ever caused me to feel that "elevation of soul" which is what separates the handful of poetic geniuses from their peers.
>>
>> > That you'd think your opinion of my poetry is the most important thing to talk about looks like just another example of your narcissism, Michael. while it might be interesting to discuss in its own thread. But it seems even more an attempt at deflection, which can be profitably snipped the next round. I only mentioned it to explain why you were convinced that FarSTar was Zod.
>>
>> >> In that light, his teammates began bumping my old poems to "prove" that no one else thought they were any good, either.
>> >> >
>> >> That simply isn't true, George.
>> >>
>> >> Your Donkey and his socks make a habit of bumping ancient threads. NancyGene noted that one of these threads showed that you were incapable of receiving negative and/or constructive criticism gracefully.
>>
>> > Wow! "We didn't bump the thread; Team Donkey bumped the thread." Thank you again for another obvious lie, Lying Michael; one that can easily be disproved just by looking at the posts in the thread -- I won't copy the whole thing, but here's the relevant section:
>>
>> > vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
>>
>> > Feb 16, 2009, 9:51:25 AM
>> > On Feb 10, 11:36 pm, "ggamble" <g...@youbet.net> wrote: > On 10-Feb-2009, FarStar
>> > ggamble's profile photo
>> > ggamble
>> > Feb 28, 2009, 11:16:17 AM
>> > On 11-Feb-2009, George Dance <george...@yahoo.ca> wrote: > > > >February (snip)
>> > George Dance's profile photo
>> > George Dance
>> > Feb 28, 2009, 8:03:52 PM
>> > On Feb 28, 11:16 am, "ggamble" <g...@youbet.net> wrote:
>> > Will Dockery's profile photo
>> > Will Dockery
>> > Apr 12, 2009, 6:25:31 AM
>> > "George Dance" wrote: >On Feb 28, 11:16 am, "ggamble" wrote: > On 11-Feb-
>> > NancyGene's profile photo
>> > NancyGene
>> > Mar 18, 2023, 11:33:00 AM
>> > On Monday, February 9, 2009 at 11:31:36 PM UTC, George Dance wrote: > February > Unnoticed
>> > Michael Pendragon's profile photo
>> > Michael Pendragon
>> > Mar 18, 2023, 7:00:15 PM
>> > On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 11:33:00 AM UTC-4, NancyGene wrote: > On Monday, February 9, 2009
>> > Will Dockery's profile photo
>> > Will Dockery
>> > Mar 18, 2023, 8:01:45 PM
>> > George J. Dance wrote: > > February > Unnoticed dreams: > ocean waves in winter, > the
>> > George Dance's profile photo
>> > George Dance
>> > Mar 19, 2023, 9:41:08 AM
>> > On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 11:33:00 AM UTC-4, NancyGene wrote: > This thread, from 2009, is a
>> > George Dance's profile photo
>> > George Dance
>> > Mar 19, 2023, 9:45:16 AM
>> > On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 8:01:45 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote: > George J. Dance wrote: >
>>
>> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>
>> > As noted, this thread was bumped by NastyGoon, followed by Michael Monkey (both, by some strange coindidence, members of the "non-existnt" Team Monkey).
>>
>> >> Do you understand the difference between "no one else thought [my poetry was] any good" and "George Dance cannot accept criticism"?
>>
>> > Oh, sure. just telling someone "Your poetry sucks" doesn't do much to win a flame war. Telling them "you're too immature to accept the truth that your poetry sucks" is much harder for your target to respond to. jr sherman, whom we all know from the thread I just quoted, was a master of that sort of trollery.
>>
>> >> > But they ran into a problem with a 2009 tercet of mine called "February" which sherman had trashed but which FarStar had praised highly. So, since Michael had decided that no one liked any of my poetry except Will and Zod, FarStar must be Zod.
>>
>> >> FarStar wrote in Zod's signature style: one-three word sentences of generic praise.
>>
>> > No, Lying Michael, he did not. (That makes three lies from you in this thread, in your first post). Heres FarStar's only comment on the poem we're discussing:
>>
>> > "This is the most tender love poem I've ever heard
>> > very much so reminiscent of a Haiku in it's true form"
>>
>> > Nothing profound about it, but not "generic praise" and not a "three-word sentence" (21 =/= 3).
>>
>> >> If he wasn't Zod, he possessed similarly poor communication skills.
>>
>> > He could have done with some repunctuation, and he has the same apostrophe confusion that Team Monkey suffers from. But all in all, I think he communicated what he wanted to say quite effectively. So do you, or you wouldn't have begun lying about him.
>>
>> >> It was a stupid idea (given the above) for which he was laughed at; and Zod adopted the "FarawayStar" just to laugh at him.
>> >> >
>> >> "Zod" may or may not have started using the "FarawayStar' handle as a joke. Who knows?
>>
>> > Those of us who know Zod, and can ask him, of course. You have a nasty habit of assuming that if you don't know something, then no one knows it. That's the second time you've done it in this thread alone; AFAICS, it only reflects your overwheening narcissism.
>>
>> >> He's used, literally, dozens of aliases over the past few years.
>>
>> > Sure he has, and we know why: because someone of some team (surely *not* Team Monkey, of course, since they don't exist :) keeps opening sock accounts using his aliases in order to impersonate him.
>>
>> >> > Unfortunately, Michael has never caught on to the fact Zod is laughing at him, and is convinced (as usual) that he has discovered a truth that is denied the rest of us.
>> >> It has always been inconsequential whether "Zod" actually posted as "FarStar," or whether "FarStar" was just someone who expressed himself similarly to "Zod."
>>
>> > Which explains how Michael Monkey deals with the cognitive dissonance of claiming and believing that "FarStar" is Zod, while knowing that in fact FarStar is not Zod -- by blanking out (ie, repressing) what's true in fact as "inconsequential".
>>
>> >> In the end, it amounts to the same thing. Both were illiterate slurp -socks.
>>
>> > If Zod is a "sock" because he doesn't use his real name, then so are "Michael Pendragon," "NancyGene," and "Ash Wurthing." Whether he "slurps" more than any of those three is, to say the least questionable.
>>
>> > "Slurp-socks" is a mildly amusing term, though, one I expect to use in the future.
>> Obviously, we old timers here remember Farstar aka Victor et al.

On Saturday, December 16, 2023 at 9:00:26 PM UTC-5, General-Zod wrote:
> Will Dockery wrote:
>
> > George J. Dance wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, December 13, 2023 at 11:37:22 AM UTC-5, Michael Monkey aka "Michael Pendragon" wrote:
> >>> On Wednesday, December 13, 2023 at 7:00:19 AM UTC-5, George J.. wrote:
> >> >> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 3:11:13 PM UTC-4, Michael Monkey aka "Michael Pendragon" wrote:
> >>
> >> >> > > Sulzbach is currently back in his FarStar sockpuppet form (currently updated to FarawayStar).
> >> >> > https://groups.google.com/g/alt.arts.poetry.comments/c/UUdv4i3ZuaE/m/HAP9YGELAwAJ?hl=en
> >> >> >
> >> >> > That's ridiculous. FarStar was a (self-published) poet who posted here in 2008-2009, and was eventually driven away by Gary Gamble and jrsherman. Michael Monkey never met him, and knows nothing about him. George Sulzbach is a poet from Columbus and a friend of Will Dockery who began posting here in late 2016.
> >> >> >
> >> >> FarStar is an anonymous Usenet name, Dunce. That's all that any of us can know for certain.
> >>
> >> > Thank you for the admission that you lied to the Dink when you claimed to know who he was, Lying Michael. In fact, you don't know who FarStar was. At the same time, you believe Iand think you know) that he's Zod. I'll let you deal with the cognitive dissonance of that yourself.
> >>
> >> >> > Michael Monkey showed up in 2014 (long after FarStar had left),
> >> >> 2010, actually. I didn't start posting regularly until 2014.
> >> >> > and in 2017 he formed Team Monkey (with Jim Senetto and NancyGene) to troll and flame an imaginary "Team Donkey" (Will Dockery, Zod, and Stephan Pickering).
> >> >> There is no "Team Monkey," George.
> >>
> >> > "Team Monkey" is just as real, or just as imaginary, as your imagined "Team Donkey", Michael.
> >>
> >> >> Nor is there any conspiracy to get you and your Donkey.
> >>
> >> > As I just said, Michael: Team Monkey was formed to "get" Will Dockery and Stephan Pickering. Team Monkey's attacks on the rest of "Team Donkey" are just -- collateral damage.
> >>
> >> >> There is Will Donkey who wants to flood AAPC with repostings of his poetry 24/7, those who condone/support his behavior, and the rest of us who want to engage in poetry discussions without having them buried under a spam-pile of posts where Will exchanges greetings with his "friends."
> >>
> >> > So, stripping out the propaganda, we can agree tht the two factions in Michael Monkey's War are:
> >> > GROUP A: Those who are out to "get" Will Dockery (Stephan Pickering having been "got" in the interval).
> >> > GROUP B: Will Dockery, and those here who are not out to "get" him.
> >>
> >> >> > So how did Michael confuse the two? That's an amusing story. In 2022, Michael assigned me to "Team Donkey" and decided all my poetry was no good.
> >> >> That's not true, George. Are you desperately fishing for compliments?
> >> >>
> >> >> I never said that your poetry was no good. The fact that I published your poetry in "A Year of Sundays" should serve as proof as to my opinion of it.
> >>
> >> > I hope you're simply confused about dates again, Michael, and that you have not published any of my poetry in AYOS in 2022 or 2023.
> >>
> >> >> I have always said that your poetry is very well-written. My main complaint is that it never succeeds in reaching above the commonplace. One of your best poems had been written as a Valentine to your wife. I had noted that it was a perfect poem -- as, indeed, several of your poems are. However, the sentiment being expressed was nothing more than a reworking of "Believe Me, If All Those Endearing Young Charms," by Thomas Moore, 1808.
> >> >>
> >> >> I have stated, time and again, that you are a highly skilled craftsman, but one who lacks an innate talent (inspiration/imagination/originality).
> >> >>
> >> >> I suppose you perceive this as a condemnation via faint praise, but it was never intended as such.
> >>
> >> > Offhand I don't remember perceiving it in the first place, Michael. Not that you're lying -- you probably have stated it "time and again," but as we know you state many contradictory things "time and again". But there's no reason to go into that; this looks like a diversion, if not an attempt at deliberate deflection.
> >>
> >> >> There are millions of people who consider themselves poets, who lack both compositional skills and poetic inspiration. Will Donkey is one of them..
> >> >>
> >> >> Your writing is worth reading because it is generally well-crafted.
> >> >>
> >> >> Conversely, there have only been a handful of poets throughout the ages who possess what can legitimately be called "poetic genius." As noted elsewhere, it is the Mozart/Salieri scenario as depicted in the film version of "Amadeus." Being compared to Salieri is hardly a put-down, as he was a popular composer of his day, whose works are still performed today.
> >> >>
> >> >> The differences between Mozart and Salieri can be consolidated under two major headings: natural talent vs skillful craftsmanship, and inspired vs commonplace material. Mozart is depicted as having had a direct pipeline to "God" -- composing his music in singles takes with no rewrites and few-to-no corrections/alterations. They also had an indefinable magic about them that Poe (describing poetry) would have called an "elevation of soul."
> >> >>
> >> >> Your poetry is very good. Some of it is even excellent. But none of it has ever caused me to feel that "elevation of soul" which is what separates the handful of poetic geniuses from their peers.
> >>
> >> > That you'd think your opinion of my poetry is the most important thing to talk about looks like just another example of your narcissism, Michael. while it might be interesting to discuss in its own thread. But it seems even more an attempt at deflection, which can be profitably snipped the next round. I only mentioned it to explain why you were convinced that FarSTar was Zod.
> >>
> >> >> In that light, his teammates began bumping my old poems to "prove" that no one else thought they were any good, either.
> >> >> >
> >> >> That simply isn't true, George.
> >> >>
> >> >> Your Donkey and his socks make a habit of bumping ancient threads. NancyGene noted that one of these threads showed that you were incapable of receiving negative and/or constructive criticism gracefully.
> >>
> >> > Wow! "We didn't bump the thread; Team Donkey bumped the thread." Thank you again for another obvious lie, Lying Michael; one that can easily be disproved just by looking at the posts in the thread -- I won't copy the whole thing, but here's the relevant section:
> >>
> >> > vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
> >>
> >> > Feb 16, 2009, 9:51:25 AM
> >> > On Feb 10, 11:36 pm, "ggamble" <g...@youbet.net> wrote: > On 10-Feb-2009, FarStar
> >> > ggamble's profile photo
> >> > ggamble
> >> > Feb 28, 2009, 11:16:17 AM
> >> > On 11-Feb-2009, George Dance <george...@yahoo.ca> wrote: > > > >February (snip)
> >> > George Dance's profile photo
> >> > George Dance
> >> > Feb 28, 2009, 8:03:52 PM
> >> > On Feb 28, 11:16 am, "ggamble" <g...@youbet.net> wrote:
> >> > Will Dockery's profile photo
> >> > Will Dockery
> >> > Apr 12, 2009, 6:25:31 AM
> >> > "George Dance" wrote: >On Feb 28, 11:16 am, "ggamble" wrote: > On 11-Feb-
> >> > NancyGene's profile photo
> >> > NancyGene
> >> > Mar 18, 2023, 11:33:00 AM
> >> > On Monday, February 9, 2009 at 11:31:36 PM UTC, George Dance wrote: > February > Unnoticed
> >> > Michael Pendragon's profile photo
> >> > Michael Pendragon
> >> > Mar 18, 2023, 7:00:15 PM
> >> > On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 11:33:00 AM UTC-4, NancyGene wrote: > On Monday, February 9, 2009
> >> > Will Dockery's profile photo
> >> > Will Dockery
> >> > Mar 18, 2023, 8:01:45 PM
> >> > George J. Dance wrote: > > February > Unnoticed dreams: > ocean waves in winter, > the
> >> > George Dance's profile photo
> >> > George Dance
> >> > Mar 19, 2023, 9:41:08 AM
> >> > On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 11:33:00 AM UTC-4, NancyGene wrote: > This thread, from 2009, is a
> >> > George Dance's profile photo
> >> > George Dance
> >> > Mar 19, 2023, 9:45:16 AM
> >> > On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 8:01:45 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote: > George J. Dance wrote: >
> >>
> >> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >>
> >> > As noted, this thread was bumped by NastyGoon, followed by Michael Monkey (both, by some strange coindidence, members of the "non-existnt" Team Monkey).
> >>
> >> >> Do you understand the difference between "no one else thought [my poetry was] any good" and "George Dance cannot accept criticism"?
> >>
> >> > Oh, sure. just telling someone "Your poetry sucks" doesn't do much to win a flame war. Telling them "you're too immature to accept the truth that your poetry sucks" is much harder for your target to respond to. jr sherman, whom we all know from the thread I just quoted, was a master of that sort of trollery.
> >>
> >> >> > But they ran into a problem with a 2009 tercet of mine called "February" which sherman had trashed but which FarStar had praised highly. So, since Michael had decided that no one liked any of my poetry except Will and Zod, FarStar must be Zod.
> >>
> >> >> FarStar wrote in Zod's signature style: one-three word sentences of generic praise.
> >>
> >> > No, Lying Michael, he did not. (That makes three lies from you in this thread, in your first post). Heres FarStar's only comment on the poem we're discussing:
> >>
> >> > "This is the most tender love poem I've ever heard
> >> > very much so reminiscent of a Haiku in it's true form"
> >>
> >> > Nothing profound about it, but not "generic praise" and not a "three-word sentence" (21 =/= 3).
> >>
> >> >> If he wasn't Zod, he possessed similarly poor communication skills.
> >>
> >> > He could have done with some repunctuation, and he has the same apostrophe confusion that Team Monkey suffers from. But all in all, I think he communicated what he wanted to say quite effectively. So do you, or you wouldn't have begun lying about him.
> >>
> >> >> It was a stupid idea (given the above) for which he was laughed at; and Zod adopted the "FarawayStar" just to laugh at him.
> >> >> >
> >> >> "Zod" may or may not have started using the "FarawayStar' handle as a joke. Who knows?
> >>
> >> > Those of us who know Zod, and can ask him, of course. You have a nasty habit of assuming that if you don't know something, then no one knows it.. That's the second time you've done it in this thread alone; AFAICS, it only reflects your overwheening narcissism.
> >>
> >> >> He's used, literally, dozens of aliases over the past few years.
> >>
> >> > Sure he has, and we know why: because someone of some team (surely *not* Team Monkey, of course, since they don't exist :) keeps opening sock accounts using his aliases in order to impersonate him.
> >>
> >> >> > Unfortunately, Michael has never caught on to the fact Zod is laughing at him, and is convinced (as usual) that he has discovered a truth that is denied the rest of us.
> >> >> It has always been inconsequential whether "Zod" actually posted as "FarStar," or whether "FarStar" was just someone who expressed himself similarly to "Zod."
> >>
> >> > Which explains how Michael Monkey deals with the cognitive dissonance of claiming and believing that "FarStar" is Zod, while knowing that in fact FarStar is not Zod -- by blanking out (ie, repressing) what's true in fact as "inconsequential".
> >>
> >> >> In the end, it amounts to the same thing. Both were illiterate slurp -socks.
> >>
> >> > If Zod is a "sock" because he doesn't use his real name, then so are "Michael Pendragon," "NancyGene," and "Ash Wurthing." Whether he "slurps" more than any of those three is, to say the least questionable.
> >>
> >> > "Slurp-socks" is a mildly amusing term, though, one I expect to use in the future.
> >> Obviously, we old timers here remember Farstar aka Victor et al.
>
> > Typo corrected ^^^^^^^^
>
> >> Definitely not Zod.
> >>
> >> HTH and HAND.
> > ....
>
> Yo
>
> Of course not
>
>
> Penhead just was in a confused tizzy as he so often is, the poor delusional little fuckwit monkey mother fucker...
>
> "A tear in his eye."

General-Zod wrote:

> Will Dockery wrote:

>> George J. Dance wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, December 13, 2023 at 11:37:22 AM UTC-5, Michael Monkey aka "Michael Pendragon" wrote:
>>>> On Wednesday, December 13, 2023 at 7:00:19 AM UTC-5, George J. wrote:
>>> >> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 3:11:13 PM UTC-4, Michael Monkey aka "Michael Pendragon" wrote:
>>>
>>> >> > > Sulzbach is currently back in his FarStar sockpuppet form (currently updated to FarawayStar).
>>> >> > https://groups.google.com/g/alt.arts.poetry.comments/c/UUdv4i3ZuaE/m/HAP9YGELAwAJ?hl=en
>>> >> >
>>> >> > That's ridiculous. FarStar was a (self-published) poet who posted here in 2008-2009, and was eventually driven away by Gary Gamble and jrsherman. Michael Monkey never met him, and knows nothing about him. George Sulzbach is a poet from Columbus and a friend of Will Dockery who began posting here in late 2016.
>>> >> >
>>> >> FarStar is an anonymous Usenet name, Dunce. That's all that any of us can know for certain.
>>>
>>> > Thank you for the admission that you lied to the Dink when you claimed to know who he was, Lying Michael. In fact, you don't know who FarStar was. At the same time, you believe Iand think you know) that he's Zod. I'll let you deal with the cognitive dissonance of that yourself.
>>>
>>> >> > Michael Monkey showed up in 2014 (long after FarStar had left),
>>> >> 2010, actually. I didn't start posting regularly until 2014.
>>> >> > and in 2017 he formed Team Monkey (with Jim Senetto and NancyGene) to troll and flame an imaginary "Team Donkey" (Will Dockery, Zod, and Stephan Pickering).
>>> >> There is no "Team Monkey," George.
>>>
>>> > "Team Monkey" is just as real, or just as imaginary, as your imagined "Team Donkey", Michael.
>>>
>>> >> Nor is there any conspiracy to get you and your Donkey.
>>>
>>> > As I just said, Michael: Team Monkey was formed to "get" Will Dockery and Stephan Pickering. Team Monkey's attacks on the rest of "Team Donkey" are just -- collateral damage.
>>>
>>> >> There is Will Donkey who wants to flood AAPC with repostings of his poetry 24/7, those who condone/support his behavior, and the rest of us who want to engage in poetry discussions without having them buried under a spam-pile of posts where Will exchanges greetings with his "friends."
>>>
>>> > So, stripping out the propaganda, we can agree tht the two factions in Michael Monkey's War are:
>>> > GROUP A: Those who are out to "get" Will Dockery (Stephan Pickering having been "got" in the interval).
>>> > GROUP B: Will Dockery, and those here who are not out to "get" him.
>>>
>>> >> > So how did Michael confuse the two? That's an amusing story. In 2022, Michael assigned me to "Team Donkey" and decided all my poetry was no good.
>>> >> That's not true, George. Are you desperately fishing for compliments?
>>> >>
>>> >> I never said that your poetry was no good. The fact that I published your poetry in "A Year of Sundays" should serve as proof as to my opinion of it.
>>>
>>> > I hope you're simply confused about dates again, Michael, and that you have not published any of my poetry in AYOS in 2022 or 2023.
>>>
>>> >> I have always said that your poetry is very well-written. My main complaint is that it never succeeds in reaching above the commonplace. One of your best poems had been written as a Valentine to your wife. I had noted that it was a perfect poem -- as, indeed, several of your poems are. However, the sentiment being expressed was nothing more than a reworking of "Believe Me, If All Those Endearing Young Charms," by Thomas Moore, 1808.
>>> >>
>>> >> I have stated, time and again, that you are a highly skilled craftsman, but one who lacks an innate talent (inspiration/imagination/originality).
>>> >>
>>> >> I suppose you perceive this as a condemnation via faint praise, but it was never intended as such.
>>>
>>> > Offhand I don't remember perceiving it in the first place, Michael. Not that you're lying -- you probably have stated it "time and again," but as we know you state many contradictory things "time and again". But there's no reason to go into that; this looks like a diversion, if not an attempt at deliberate deflection.
>>>
>>> >> There are millions of people who consider themselves poets, who lack both compositional skills and poetic inspiration. Will Donkey is one of them..
>>> >>
>>> >> Your writing is worth reading because it is generally well-crafted.
>>> >>
>>> >> Conversely, there have only been a handful of poets throughout the ages who possess what can legitimately be called "poetic genius." As noted elsewhere, it is the Mozart/Salieri scenario as depicted in the film version of "Amadeus." Being compared to Salieri is hardly a put-down, as he was a popular composer of his day, whose works are still performed today.
>>> >>
>>> >> The differences between Mozart and Salieri can be consolidated under two major headings: natural talent vs skillful craftsmanship, and inspired vs commonplace material. Mozart is depicted as having had a direct pipeline to "God" -- composing his music in singles takes with no rewrites and few-to-no corrections/alterations. They also had an indefinable magic about them that Poe (describing poetry) would have called an "elevation of soul."
>>> >>
>>> >> Your poetry is very good. Some of it is even excellent. But none of it has ever caused me to feel that "elevation of soul" which is what separates the handful of poetic geniuses from their peers.
>>>
>>> > That you'd think your opinion of my poetry is the most important thing to talk about looks like just another example of your narcissism, Michael. while it might be interesting to discuss in its own thread. But it seems even more an attempt at deflection, which can be profitably snipped the next round. I only mentioned it to explain why you were convinced that FarSTar was Zod.
>>>
>>> >> In that light, his teammates began bumping my old poems to "prove" that no one else thought they were any good, either.
>>> >> >
>>> >> That simply isn't true, George.
>>> >>
>>> >> Your Donkey and his socks make a habit of bumping ancient threads. NancyGene noted that one of these threads showed that you were incapable of receiving negative and/or constructive criticism gracefully.
>>>
>>> > Wow! "We didn't bump the thread; Team Donkey bumped the thread." Thank you again for another obvious lie, Lying Michael; one that can easily be disproved just by looking at the posts in the thread -- I won't copy the whole thing, but here's the relevant section:
>>>
>>> > vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
>>>
>>> > Feb 16, 2009, 9:51:25 AM
>>> > On Feb 10, 11:36 pm, "ggamble" <g...@youbet.net> wrote: > On 10-Feb-2009, FarStar
>>> > ggamble's profile photo
>>> > ggamble
>>> > Feb 28, 2009, 11:16:17 AM
>>> > On 11-Feb-2009, George Dance <george...@yahoo.ca> wrote: > > > >February (snip)
>>> > George Dance's profile photo
>>> > George Dance
>>> > Feb 28, 2009, 8:03:52 PM
>>> > On Feb 28, 11:16 am, "ggamble" <g...@youbet.net> wrote:
>>> > Will Dockery's profile photo
>>> > Will Dockery
>>> > Apr 12, 2009, 6:25:31 AM
>>> > "George Dance" wrote: >On Feb 28, 11:16 am, "ggamble" wrote: > On 11-Feb-
>>> > NancyGene's profile photo
>>> > NancyGene
>>> > Mar 18, 2023, 11:33:00 AM
>>> > On Monday, February 9, 2009 at 11:31:36 PM UTC, George Dance wrote: > February > Unnoticed
>>> > Michael Pendragon's profile photo
>>> > Michael Pendragon
>>> > Mar 18, 2023, 7:00:15 PM
>>> > On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 11:33:00 AM UTC-4, NancyGene wrote: > On Monday, February 9, 2009
>>> > Will Dockery's profile photo
>>> > Will Dockery
>>> > Mar 18, 2023, 8:01:45 PM
>>> > George J. Dance wrote: > > February > Unnoticed dreams: > ocean waves in winter, > the
>>> > George Dance's profile photo
>>> > George Dance
>>> > Mar 19, 2023, 9:41:08 AM
>>> > On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 11:33:00 AM UTC-4, NancyGene wrote: > This thread, from 2009, is a
>>> > George Dance's profile photo
>>> > George Dance
>>> > Mar 19, 2023, 9:45:16 AM
>>> > On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 8:01:45 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote: > George J. Dance wrote: >
>>>
>>> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>
>>> > As noted, this thread was bumped by NastyGoon, followed by Michael Monkey (both, by some strange coindidence, members of the "non-existnt" Team Monkey).
>>>
>>> >> Do you understand the difference between "no one else thought [my poetry was] any good" and "George Dance cannot accept criticism"?
>>>
>>> > Oh, sure. just telling someone "Your poetry sucks" doesn't do much to win a flame war. Telling them "you're too immature to accept the truth that your poetry sucks" is much harder for your target to respond to. jr sherman, whom we all know from the thread I just quoted, was a master of that sort of trollery.
>>>
>>> >> > But they ran into a problem with a 2009 tercet of mine called "February" which sherman had trashed but which FarStar had praised highly. So, since Michael had decided that no one liked any of my poetry except Will and Zod, FarStar must be Zod.
>>>
>>> >> FarStar wrote in Zod's signature style: one-three word sentences of generic praise.
>>>
>>> > No, Lying Michael, he did not. (That makes three lies from you in this thread, in your first post). Heres FarStar's only comment on the poem we're discussing:
>>>
>>> > "This is the most tender love poem I've ever heard
>>> > very much so reminiscent of a Haiku in it's true form"
>>>
>>> > Nothing profound about it, but not "generic praise" and not a "three-word sentence" (21 =/= 3).
>>>
>>> >> If he wasn't Zod, he possessed similarly poor communication skills.
>>>
>>> > He could have done with some repunctuation, and he has the same apostrophe confusion that Team Monkey suffers from. But all in all, I think he communicated what he wanted to say quite effectively. So do you, or you wouldn't have begun lying about him.
>>>
>>> >> It was a stupid idea (given the above) for which he was laughed at; and Zod adopted the "FarawayStar" just to laugh at him.
>>> >> >
>>> >> "Zod" may or may not have started using the "FarawayStar' handle as a joke. Who knows?
>>>
>>> > Those of us who know Zod, and can ask him, of course. You have a nasty habit of assuming that if you don't know something, then no one knows it. That's the second time you've done it in this thread alone; AFAICS, it only reflects your overwheening narcissism.
>>>
>>> >> He's used, literally, dozens of aliases over the past few years.
>>>
>>> > Sure he has, and we know why: because someone of some team (surely *not* Team Monkey, of course, since they don't exist :) keeps opening sock accounts using his aliases in order to impersonate him.
>>>
>>> >> > Unfortunately, Michael has never caught on to the fact Zod is laughing at him, and is convinced (as usual) that he has discovered a truth that is denied the rest of us.
>>> >> It has always been inconsequential whether "Zod" actually posted as "FarStar," or whether "FarStar" was just someone who expressed himself similarly to "Zod."
>>>
>>> > Which explains how Michael Monkey deals with the cognitive dissonance of claiming and believing that "FarStar" is Zod, while knowing that in fact FarStar is not Zod -- by blanking out (ie, repressing) what's true in fact as "inconsequential".
>>>
>>> >> In the end, it amounts to the same thing. Both were illiterate slurp -socks.
>>>
>>> > If Zod is a "sock" because he doesn't use his real name, then so are "Michael Pendragon," "NancyGene," and "Ash Wurthing." Whether he "slurps" more than any of those three is, to say the least questionable.
>>>
>>> > "Slurp-socks" is a mildly amusing term, though, one I expect to use in the future.
>>> Obviously, we old timers here remember Farstar aka Victor et al.

On Friday, December 15, 2023 at 12:45:33 PM UTC-5, George J. wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 13, 2023 at 11:37:22 AM UTC-5, Michael Monkey aka "Michael Pendragon" wrote:
> > On Wednesday, December 13, 2023 at 7:00:19 AM UTC-5, George J. wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 3:11:13 PM UTC-4, Michael Monkey aka "Michael Pendragon" wrote:
>
> > > > Sulzbach is currently back in his FarStar sockpuppet form (currently updated to FarawayStar).
> > > https://groups.google.com/g/alt.arts.poetry.comments/c/UUdv4i3ZuaE/m/HAP9YGELAwAJ?hl=en
> > >
> > > That's ridiculous. FarStar was a (self-published) poet who posted here in 2008-2009, and was eventually driven away by Gary Gamble and jrsherman.. Michael Monkey never met him, and knows nothing about him. George Sulzbach is a poet from Columbus and a friend of Will Dockery who began posting here in late 2016.
> > >
> > FarStar is an anonymous Usenet name, Dunce. That's all that any of us can know for certain.
> Thank you for the admission that you lied to the Dink when you claimed to know who he was, Lying Michael. In fact, you don't know who FarStar was. At the same time, you believe Iand think you know) that he's Zod. I'll let you deal with the cognitive dissonance of that yourself.
> > > Michael Monkey showed up in 2014 (long after FarStar had left),
> > 2010, actually. I didn't start posting regularly until 2014.
> > > and in 2017 he formed Team Monkey (with Jim Senetto and NancyGene) to troll and flame an imaginary "Team Donkey" (Will Dockery, Zod, and Stephan Pickering).
> > There is no "Team Monkey," George.
> "Team Monkey" is just as real, or just as imaginary, as your imagined "Team Donkey", Michael.
> > Nor is there any conspiracy to get you and your Donkey.
> As I just said, Michael: Team Monkey was formed to "get" Will Dockery and Stephan Pickering. Team Monkey's attacks on the rest of "Team Donkey" are just -- collateral damage.
> > There is Will Donkey who wants to flood AAPC with repostings of his poetry 24/7, those who condone/support his behavior, and the rest of us who want to engage in poetry discussions without having them buried under a spam-pile of posts where Will exchanges greetings with his "friends."
> So, stripping out the propaganda, we can agree tht the two factions in Michael Monkey's War are:
> GROUP A: Those who are out to "get" Will Dockery (Stephan Pickering having been "got" in the interval).
> GROUP B: Will Dockery, and those here who are not out to "get" him.
> > > So how did Michael confuse the two? That's an amusing story. In 2022, Michael assigned me to "Team Donkey" and decided all my poetry was no good..
> > That's not true, George. Are you desperately fishing for compliments?
> >
> > I never said that your poetry was no good. The fact that I published your poetry in "A Year of Sundays" should serve as proof as to my opinion of it.
> I hope you're simply confused about dates again, Michael, and that you have not published any of my poetry in AYOS in 2022 or 2023.
> > I have always said that your poetry is very well-written. My main complaint is that it never succeeds in reaching above the commonplace. One of your best poems had been written as a Valentine to your wife. I had noted that it was a perfect poem -- as, indeed, several of your poems are. However, the sentiment being expressed was nothing more than a reworking of "Believe Me, If All Those Endearing Young Charms," by Thomas Moore, 1808.
> >
> > I have stated, time and again, that you are a highly skilled craftsman, but one who lacks an innate talent (inspiration/imagination/originality).
> >
> > I suppose you perceive this as a condemnation via faint praise, but it was never intended as such.
> Offhand I don't remember perceiving it in the first place, Michael. Not that you're lying -- you probably have stated it "time and again," but as we know you state many contradictory things "time and again". But there's no reason to go into that; this looks like a diversion, if not an attempt at deliberate deflection.
> > There are millions of people who consider themselves poets, who lack both compositional skills and poetic inspiration. Will Donkey is one of them.
> >
> > Your writing is worth reading because it is generally well-crafted.
> >
> > Conversely, there have only been a handful of poets throughout the ages who possess what can legitimately be called "poetic genius." As noted elsewhere, it is the Mozart/Salieri scenario as depicted in the film version of "Amadeus." Being compared to Salieri is hardly a put-down, as he was a popular composer of his day, whose works are still performed today.
> >
> > The differences between Mozart and Salieri can be consolidated under two major headings: natural talent vs skillful craftsmanship, and inspired vs commonplace material. Mozart is depicted as having had a direct pipeline to "God" -- composing his music in singles takes with no rewrites and few-to-no corrections/alterations. They also had an indefinable magic about them that Poe (describing poetry) would have called an "elevation of soul."
> >
> > Your poetry is very good. Some of it is even excellent. But none of it has ever caused me to feel that "elevation of soul" which is what separates the handful of poetic geniuses from their peers.
> That you'd think your opinion of my poetry is the most important thing to talk about looks like just another example of your narcissism, Michael. while it might be interesting to discuss in its own thread. But it seems even more an attempt at deflection, which can be profitably snipped the next round. I only mentioned it to explain why you were convinced that FarSTar was Zod.
> > In that light, his teammates began bumping my old poems to "prove" that no one else thought they were any good, either.
> > >
> > That simply isn't true, George.
> >
> > Your Donkey and his socks make a habit of bumping ancient threads. NancyGene noted that one of these threads showed that you were incapable of receiving negative and/or constructive criticism gracefully.
> Wow! "We didn't bump the thread; Team Donkey bumped the thread." Thank you again for another obvious lie, Lying Michael; one that can easily be disproved just by looking at the posts in the thread -- I won't copy the whole thing, but here's the relevant section:
>
> vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
>
> Feb 16, 2009, 9:51:25 AM
> On Feb 10, 11:36 pm, "ggamble" <g...@youbet.net> wrote: > On 10-Feb-2009, FarStar
> ggamble's profile photo
> ggamble
> Feb 28, 2009, 11:16:17 AM
> On 11-Feb-2009, George Dance <george...@yahoo.ca> wrote: > > > >February (snip)
> George Dance's profile photo
> George Dance
> Feb 28, 2009, 8:03:52 PM
> On Feb 28, 11:16 am, "ggamble" <g...@youbet.net> wrote:
> Will Dockery's profile photo
> Will Dockery
> Apr 12, 2009, 6:25:31 AM
> "George Dance" wrote: >On Feb 28, 11:16 am, "ggamble" wrote: > On 11-Feb-
> NancyGene's profile photo
> NancyGene
> Mar 18, 2023, 11:33:00 AM
> On Monday, February 9, 2009 at 11:31:36 PM UTC, George Dance wrote: > February > Unnoticed
> Michael Pendragon's profile photo
> Michael Pendragon
> Mar 18, 2023, 7:00:15 PM
> On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 11:33:00 AM UTC-4, NancyGene wrote: > On Monday, February 9, 2009
> Will Dockery's profile photo
> Will Dockery
> Mar 18, 2023, 8:01:45 PM
> George J. Dance wrote: > > February > Unnoticed dreams: > ocean waves in winter, > the
> George Dance's profile photo
> George Dance
> Mar 19, 2023, 9:41:08 AM
> On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 11:33:00 AM UTC-4, NancyGene wrote: > This thread, from 2009, is a
> George Dance's profile photo
> George Dance
> Mar 19, 2023, 9:45:16 AM
> On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 8:01:45 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote: > George J. Dance wrote: >
>
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> As noted, this thread was bumped by NastyGoon, followed by Michael Monkey (both, by some strange coindidence, members of the "non-existnt" Team Monkey).
> > Do you understand the difference between "no one else thought [my poetry was] any good" and "George Dance cannot accept criticism"?
> Oh, sure. just telling someone "Your poetry sucks" doesn't do much to win a flame war. Telling them "you're too immature to accept the truth that your poetry sucks" is much harder for your target to respond to. jr sherman, whom we all know from the thread I just quoted, was a master of that sort of trollery.
> > > But they ran into a problem with a 2009 tercet of mine called "February" which sherman had trashed but which FarStar had praised highly. So, since Michael had decided that no one liked any of my poetry except Will and Zod, FarStar must be Zod.
>
> > FarStar wrote in Zod's signature style: one-three word sentences of generic praise.
> No, Lying Michael, he did not. (That makes three lies from you in this thread, in your first post). Heres FarStar's only comment on the poem we're discussing:
>
> "This is the most tender love poem I've ever heard
> very much so reminiscent of a Haiku in it's true form"
>
> Nothing profound about it, but not "generic praise" and not a "three-word sentence" (21 =/= 3).
> > If he wasn't Zod, he possessed similarly poor communication skills.
> He could have done with some repunctuation, and he has the same apostrophe confusion that Team Monkey suffers from. But all in all, I think he communicated what he wanted to say quite effectively. So do you, or you wouldn't have begun lying about him.
> > It was a stupid idea (given the above) for which he was laughed at; and Zod adopted the "FarawayStar" just to laugh at him.
> > >
> > "Zod" may or may not have started using the "FarawayStar' handle as a joke. Who knows?
> Those of us who know Zod, and can ask him, of course. You have a nasty habit of assuming that if you don't know something, then no one knows it. That's the second time you've done it in this thread alone; AFAICS, it only reflects your overwheening narcissism.
> > He's used, literally, dozens of aliases over the past few years.
> Sure he has, and we know why: because someone of some team (surely *not* Team Monkey, of course, since they don't exist :) keeps opening sock accounts using his aliases in order to impersonate him.
> > > Unfortunately, Michael has never caught on to the fact Zod is laughing at him, and is convinced (as usual) that he has discovered a truth that is denied the rest of us.
> > It has always been inconsequential whether "Zod" actually posted as "FarStar," or whether "FarStar" was just someone who expressed himself similarly to "Zod."
> Which explains how Michael Monkey deals with the cognitive dissonance of claiming and believing that "FarStar" is Zod, while knowing that in fact FarStar is not Zod -- by blanking out (ie, repressing) what's true in fact as "inconsequential".
> > In the end, it amounts to the same thing. Both were illiterate slurp -socks.
> If Zod is a "sock" because he doesn't use his real name, then so are "Michael Pendragon," "NancyGene," and "Ash Wurthing." Whether he "slurps" more than any of those three is, to say the least questionable.
>
> "Slurp-socks" is a mildly amusing term, though, one I expect to use in the future.