In the BBC 1981 "Day of the Triffids", people seem desperate for food and drink after only a few hours. Do (or did) Brits really keep so little food in their houses? Also, the gas, electricity, water, and phones seemed to go out within hours, unlike in (e.g.) EARTH ABIDES by George R. Stewart, where the water lasts several years. I'm assuming now things are more automated, but back then, did the utilities require con start intervention to keep running?

--
Evelyn C. Leeper

On Sun, 5 Nov 2023 08:34:45 -0800 (PST), eleeper@optonline.net <evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com> wrote:
> In the BBC 1981 "Day of the Triffids", people seem desperate for food and
> drink after only a few hours. Do (or did) Brits really keep so little food
> in their houses? Also, the gas, electricity, water, and phones seemed to
> go out within hours, unlike in (e.g.) EARTH ABIDES by George R. Stewart,
> where the water lasts several years. I'm assuming now things are more
> automated, but back then, did the utilities require con start intervention
> to keep running?

I guess Paul Dormer will talk about the electricty with a lot more
authority than the rest of us can.

I wouldn't have thought that water would go very quickly.

As for food then around that time a lot of fresh food was bought more or
less when it was needed (at least for where I lived - I was still at school).
It was still fairly common for milk to be delivered every morning by the
milkman. Although I would guess that most houses would have some tinned
food and biscuits. Of course this would have been even more so when
the novel was written.

--
Andy Leighton => andyl@azaal.plus.com
"We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"
- Douglas Adams

John Dallman <jgd@cix.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <8f3094a3-0f1e-4e78-a439-a029fe41ddcbn@googlegroups.com>,
>evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com () wrote:
>
>> In the BBC 1981 "Day of the Triffids", people seem desperate for
>> food and drink after only a few hours. Do (or did) Brits really
>> keep so little food in their houses?
>
>This is a question of personal habits. I keep quite a lot, but I know
>some people don't. Also, TV dramatists have a tendency to compress
>timescales.

"In Afghanistan.... oh, it was so terrible... we lost our corkscrew
in enemy action. We had to survive on nothing but food and water for
three days. Can you imagine it?"
-- Ronnie Barker

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote:
> "In Afghanistan.... oh, it was so terrible... we lost our corkscrew
> in enemy action. We had to survive on nothing but food and water
> for three days. Can you imagine it?"
> -- Ronnie Barker

"Can you imagine it, I'm the last Plantagenet." -- Richard III
(cited (musically) by Horrible Histories).

The Afghans kicked out the British in the 19th century, the Russians
in the 20th, and the Americans in the 21st. I wonder who they will
kick out in the 22nd.

Then there was the woman arrested for bringing knitting needles onto a
plane after 9/11. They were afraid she might knit an Afghan.
--
Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.

On Sunday, November 5, 2023 at 12:52:10 PM UTC-5, Keith F. Lynch wrote:
> Scott Dorsey <klu...@panix.com> wrote:
> > "In Afghanistan.... oh, it was so terrible... we lost our corkscrew
> > in enemy action. We had to survive on nothing but food and water
> > for three days. Can you imagine it?"
> > -- Ronnie Barker
> "Can you imagine it, I'm the last Plantagenet." -- Richard III
> (cited (musically) by Horrible Histories).
>
> The Afghans kicked out the British in the 19th century, the Russians
> in the 20th, and the Americans in the 21st. I wonder who they will
> kick out in the 22nd.
>
> Then there was the woman arrested for bringing knitting needles onto a
> plane after 9/11. They were afraid she might knit an Afghan.

Nice joke, but knitting needles are allowed.
https://marlybird.com/blog/can-i-take-knitting-needles-on-an-airplane/

Pt

On Sunday, November 5, 2023 at 12:50:51 PM UTC-5, Paul Dormer wrote:
> In article <slrnukfk4d....@azaal.plus.com>, an...@azaal.plus.com
> (Andy Leighton) wrote:
>
> >
> > I guess Paul Dormer will talk about the electricty with a lot more
> > authority than the rest of us can.
> I'm not sure about the electricity. The thing is, you can't store
> electricity very easily. There are a couple of pumped storage systems in
> Wales, but that's about it. Most of the grid control is bringing
> generating sets on when they are needed and taking them off to avoid
> overloading. I remember in the seventies we brought online a demand
> prediction program that tried to work out in advance what the demand was
> going to be as the day progressed.
>
> Most days, demand started to rise in the morning as people got up, had
> showers, breakfast. Then dropped during the day and came back up in the
> evening. In winter, lighting comes on earlier.
>
> I don't know how long it would take power stations - coal and oil - to
> run out of fuel. And what happens when there is no load for it to powers,
> etc. Of course, there is not a stoker shovelling coal into the furnace,
> and I can't remember how the coal feed works.
> >
> > I wouldn't have thought that water would go very quickly.
> Ironically, I'm have water problems here in Guildford at the moment.
> Storm Ciaran seems to have messed up the water supply.
>
> Incidentally, I didn't see the original message. I haven't seen MTVoid
> on my feed for weeks.

Hydroelectric may last a lot longer. I've seen claims that Hoover is so
automated that it might continue to pump out electricity for several
years without human intervention.

Pt

On Sunday, November 5, 2023 at 12:50:51 PM UTC-5, Paul Dormer wrote:
> Incidentally, I didn't see the original message. I haven't seen MTVoid
> on my feed for weeks.

Is there anyone else who hasn't been seeing the MT VOID? (Or who has?)
I have been posting it every Sunday.

--
Evelyn C. Leeper

On Sun, 5 Nov 2023 14:02:02 -0800 (PST), "eleeper@optonline.net"
<evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sunday, November 5, 2023 at 12:50:51?PM UTC-5, Paul Dormer wrote:
>> Incidentally, I didn't see the original message. I haven't seen MTVoid
>> on my feed for weeks.
>
>Is there anyone else who hasn't been seeing the MT VOID? (Or who has?)
>I have been posting it every Sunday.

It is showing up here regularly, and providing an interesting read!

Alan Woodford

The Greying Lensman

eleeper@optonline.net <evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com> wrote:
> Is there anyone else who hasn't been seeing the MT VOID? (Or who
> has?) I have been posting it every Sunday.

All the ones sent this year arrived fine on Panix. (Well, mostly
fine. Some are moderately MIME-mangled, e.g. your long lines of
equal signs turned into much longer lines of =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D.)
--
Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.

Keith F. Lynch <kfl@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>
>The Afghans kicked out the British in the 19th century, the Russians
>in the 20th, and the Americans in the 21st. I wonder who they will
>kick out in the 22nd.

They kicked the Russians out twice. So there is hope for the British to
get kicked out again in the future. Sadly the chances of another Kipling
coming of it are slim.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On Monday, November 6, 2023 at 7:21:46 AM UTC-5, Paul Dormer wrote:
> In article <cl4gkite9ce1jcc7l...@4ax.com>,
> al...@thewoodfords.uk (Alan Woodford) wrote:
>
> >
> > >Is there anyone else who hasn't been seeing the MT VOID? (Or who
> > has?) >I have been posting it every Sunday.
> >
> > It is showing up here regularly, and providing an interesting read!
> I checked on google groups and it seems only Evelyn's posts are failing
> to get through.

I'm seeing a Nov 5 issue on GG.

pt

In article <memo.20231106122143.6876B@pauldormer.cix.co.uk>,
prd@pauldormer.cix.co.uk (Paul Dormer) wrote:

> In article <cl4gkite9ce1jcc7lsv9g8r3k3t744k7j8@4ax.com>,
> alan@thewoodfords.uk (Alan Woodford) wrote:
>
> >
> > >Is there anyone else who hasn't been seeing the MT VOID? (Or who
> > has?) >I have been posting it every Sunday.
> >
> > It is showing up here regularly, and providing an interesting read!
>
> I checked on google groups and it seems only Evelyn's posts are failing
> to get through.

MT VOID stopped showing up on the 'news.indvidual.net' newserver several
weeks ago. However, it has appeared regularly on the
'news.supernews.com' newserver. BTW, a number of otherwise legitimate
posts on r.a.sf.f and r.a.sf.w have also not showed up on
'news.individual.net'.

--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
�-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward robertaw@drizzle.com

In article <robertaw-689648.21391806112023@news.individual.net>,
Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:

> In article <memo.20231106122143.6876B@pauldormer.cix.co.uk>,
> prd@pauldormer.cix.co.uk (Paul Dormer) wrote:
>
> > In article <cl4gkite9ce1jcc7lsv9g8r3k3t744k7j8@4ax.com>,
> > alan@thewoodfords.uk (Alan Woodford) wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > >Is there anyone else who hasn't been seeing the MT VOID? (Or who
> > > has?) >I have been posting it every Sunday.
> > >
> > > It is showing up here regularly, and providing an interesting read!
> >
> > I checked on google groups and it seems only Evelyn's posts are failing
> > to get through.
>
> MT VOID stopped showing up on the 'news.indvidual.net' newserver several
> weeks ago. However, it has appeared regularly on the
> 'news.supernews.com' newserver. BTW, a number of otherwise legitimate
> posts on r.a.sf.f and r.a.sf.w have also not showed up on
> 'news.individual.net'.

I have been checking and several of the missing posts had @gmail.com
addresses.

--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
�-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward robertaw@drizzle.com

On Wednesday, November 8, 2023 at 12:35:34 AM UTC-5, Robert Woodward wrote:
> In article <robertaw-689648...@news.individual.net>,
> Robert Woodward <robe...@drizzle.com> wrote:
>
> > In article <memo.2023110...@pauldormer.cix.co.uk>,
> > p...@pauldormer.cix.co.uk (Paul Dormer) wrote:
> >
> > MT VOID stopped showing up on the 'news.indvidual.net' newserver several
> > weeks ago. However, it has appeared regularly on the
> > 'news.supernews.com' newserver. BTW, a number of otherwise legitimate
> > posts on r.a.sf.f and r.a.sf.w have also not showed up on
> > 'news.individual.net'.
> I have been checking and several of the missing posts had @gmail.com
> addresses.

It's ironic: I switched to gmail for sending out the email MT VOIDs, because
too many sites were deciding that optonline.net was a spam generator.

--
Evelyn C. Leeper

eleeper@optonline.net <evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com> wrote:
> Robert Woodward wrote:
>> I have been checking and several of the missing posts had @gmail.com
>> addresses.

> It's ironic: I switched to gmail for sending out the email MT
> VOIDs, because too many sites were deciding that optonline.net
> was a spam generator.

Are you speaking of email or of rasff posts? To clarify, when I said
I wasn't missing any 2023 issues I was speaking of rasff. I have
never subscribed to MT VOID by email.
--
Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.

In article <robertaw-95BB42.21352907112023@news.individual.net>,
Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:

> In article <robertaw-689648.21391806112023@news.individual.net>,
> Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:
>
> > In article <memo.20231106122143.6876B@pauldormer.cix.co.uk>,
> > prd@pauldormer.cix.co.uk (Paul Dormer) wrote:
> >
> > > In article <cl4gkite9ce1jcc7lsv9g8r3k3t744k7j8@4ax.com>,
> > > alan@thewoodfords.uk (Alan Woodford) wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > >Is there anyone else who hasn't been seeing the MT VOID? (Or who
> > > > has?) >I have been posting it every Sunday.
> > > >
> > > > It is showing up here regularly, and providing an interesting read!
> > >
> > > I checked on google groups and it seems only Evelyn's posts are failing
> > > to get through.
> >
> > MT VOID stopped showing up on the 'news.indvidual.net' newserver several
> > weeks ago. However, it has appeared regularly on the
> > 'news.supernews.com' newserver. BTW, a number of otherwise legitimate
> > posts on r.a.sf.f and r.a.sf.w have also not showed up on
> > 'news.individual.net'.
>
> I have been checking and several of the missing posts had @gmail.com
> addresses.

A more complete check of messages on Supernews that are not on
'news.individual.net', found that those messages all originated on
Google Groups.

--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
�-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward robertaw@drizzle.com

On 09/11/2023 16:36, Robert Woodward wrote:
[SNIP]
>
> A more complete check of messages on Supernews that are not on
> 'news.individual.net', found that those messages all originated on
> Google Groups.
>
Apparently nin and eternal-september are currently dropping all messages
from google while they try to fine-tune their SPAM filters to deal with
the current flood. (It's not likely that google will try to do anything
about a problem of their making.)

Cheers,
Gary B-)

Robert wrote that many had gmail.com addresses, so I commented
I had switched to that for mailing to avoid problems. But apparently
it's Google Groups feed to whatever that Usenet server is.

On Wednesday, November 8, 2023 at 9:19:14 PM UTC-5, Keith F. Lynch wrote:
> ele...@optonline.net <evelynchim...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Robert Woodward wrote:
> >> I have been checking and several of the missing posts had @gmail.com
> >> addresses.
>
> > It's ironic: I switched to gmail for sending out the email MT
> > VOIDs, because too many sites were deciding that optonline.net
> > was a spam generator.
> Are you speaking of email or of rasff posts? To clarify, when I said
> I wasn't missing any 2023 issues I was speaking of rasff. I have
> never subscribed to MT VOID by email.
> --
> Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
> Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.

In article <memo.20231105173727.11928D@jgd.cix.co.uk>,
John Dallman <jgd@cix.co.uk> wrote:
>In the 1980s, the 'phone system was powered through large accumulators
>that would keep it going for a couple of days without external power, but
>that's no longer the case.

[Hal Heydt]
I can't speak to British systems, but in the US, central offices
(COs) are designed to have enough battery power to run for
several days and then have auto-starting generators to recharge
the batteries when they get low. Depending on the level of CO,
they are supposed to be able to operate anywhere from 2 to 6
weeks without external power.

After the Loma Prieta earthquake (1989, M6.9), *one* CO failed.
It took 10 days. The generator failed to start, but it took
that long for the batteries to run down to point that the
switches dropped.

Part of the reason it took so long is that many of the COs had
been built and provisioned many years earlier, and then as
switches got replaced with newer equipment, they required less
power to operate but the original battery design was left in
place.

Dorothy J Heydt <djheydt@kithrup.com> wrote:
>In article <memo.20231105173727.11928D@jgd.cix.co.uk>,
>John Dallman <jgd@cix.co.uk> wrote:
>>In the 1980s, the 'phone system was powered through large accumulators
>>that would keep it going for a couple of days without external power, but
>>that's no longer the case.
>
>[Hal Heydt]
>I can't speak to British systems, but in the US, central offices
>(COs) are designed to have enough battery power to run for
>several days and then have auto-starting generators to recharge
>the batteries when they get low. Depending on the level of CO,
>they are supposed to be able to operate anywhere from 2 to 6
>weeks without external power.

That was required in the tariffs. But the number of people with
tariffed voice service today is very slim.

With the move to fibre infrastructure in the 1970s some of this
changed too. By 1980 or so in most locations you had copper from
your house to the SLC that served your neighborhood and then fibre
from the SLC to the CO. The SLC had independent battery backup and
sometimes it wouldn't last as long as the CO.

>After the Loma Prieta earthquake (1989, M6.9), *one* CO failed.
>It took 10 days. The generator failed to start, but it took
>that long for the batteries to run down to point that the
>switches dropped.
>
>Part of the reason it took so long is that many of the COs had
>been built and provisioned many years earlier, and then as
>switches got replaced with newer equipment, they required less
>power to operate but the original battery design was left in
>place.

Yes, this is true... but so much of that infrastructure is gone and
so many people are getting their voice circuits over some untariffed
system like FiOS or VoIP-over-cable that you can no longer count
on that.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."