On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 10:48:10 PM UTC-4, Mark D. wrote:
> On Apr 28, 2023 at 4:52:52 PM CDT, "Steve Mc" <steve...@>
> wrote:
>
> > In fact, I use it for the soundtrack on some of my videos, most
> > recently Kauai waves. It was a very nice fit.
> That's because, despite what Bill said, it's much closer to Hawaiian music
> than r'n'r.

I remember when members of this group gave me a hard time calling "Sleep Walk" R&R, and Jim agreed with me.

On Apr 29, 2023 at 8:55:15 AM CDT, "Bill B" <bbug2@optonline.net> wrote:

> On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 10:48:10 PM UTC-4, Mark D. wrote:
>> On Apr 28, 2023 at 4:52:52 PM CDT, "Steve Mc" <steve...@>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In fact, I use it for the soundtrack on some of my videos, most
>>> recently Kauai waves. It was a very nice fit.
>> That's because, despite what Bill said, it's much closer to Hawaiian music
>> than r'n'r.
>
>
> I remember when members of this group gave me a hard time calling "Sleep Walk"
> R&R, and Jim agreed with me.

Well it doesn't rock and it doesn't roll--it flows--but I've always thought
genre arguments about oddball hits were pointless.

--md

remove "xx" for email

On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 10:13:44 AM UTC-4, Mark D. wrote:
> On Apr 29, 2023 at 8:55:15 AM CDT, "Bill B" <bb...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
> > On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 10:48:10 PM UTC-4, Mark D. wrote:
> >> On Apr 28, 2023 at 4:52:52 PM CDT, "Steve Mc" <steve...@>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> In fact, I use it for the soundtrack on some of my videos, most
> >>> recently Kauai waves. It was a very nice fit.
> >> That's because, despite what Bill said, it's much closer to Hawaiian music
> >> than r'n'r.
> >
> >
> > I remember when members of this group gave me a hard time calling "Sleep Walk"
> > R&R, and Jim agreed with me.
> Well it doesn't rock and it doesn't roll--it flows--but I've always thought
> genre arguments about oddball hits were pointless.

Their Wikipedia article:

Genres Rock and roll, surf rock, instrumental rock

Santo & Johnny were an American rock and roll instrumental duo of Italian descent from Brooklyn, New York, composed of brothers Santo Farina (born October 24, 1937) and Johnny Farina (born April 30, 1941).

On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 10:13:44 AM UTC-4, Mark D. wrote:
> On Apr 29, 2023 at 8:55:15 AM CDT, "Bill B" <> wrote:
>

> >> That's because, despite what Bill said, it's much closer to Hawaiian music
> >> than r'n'r.
> >
> >
> > I remember when members of this group gave me a hard time calling "Sleep Walk"
> > R&R, and Jim agreed with me.

> Well it doesn't rock and it doesn't roll--it flows--but I've always thought
> genre arguments about oddball hits were pointless.

Then why did you start one? :-)

On 4/29/2023 10:13 AM, Mark D. wrote:
> On Apr 29, 2023 at 8:55:15 AM CDT, "Bill B" <bbug2@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>> On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 10:48:10 PM UTC-4, Mark D. wrote:
>>> On Apr 28, 2023 at 4:52:52 PM CDT, "Steve Mc" <steve...@>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In fact, I use it for the soundtrack on some of my videos, most
>>>> recently Kauai waves. It was a very nice fit.
>>> That's because, despite what Bill said, it's much closer to Hawaiian music
>>> than r'n'r.
>>
>>
>> I remember when members of this group gave me a hard time calling "Sleep Walk"
>> R&R, and Jim agreed with me.
>
> Well it doesn't rock and it doesn't roll--it flows--but I've always thought
> genre arguments about oddball hits were pointless.
--------------
I agree 100%.
"Rock & roll" in 1959 meant anything that was marketed to teenagers,
including artists like Paul Anka and Bobby Darin who made *mainly* pop
records, and also including novelty instrumentals like "Quiet Village."
By today's standards, much of what was called R&R back then...isn't.
But then again, much of today's music which is referred to as "Pop"
sounds like R&R to me (e.g. Taylor Swift or the Jonas Brothers).

On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 11:27:41 AM UTC-4, DianeE wrote:
> On 4/29/2023 10:13 AM, Mark D. wrote:
> > On Apr 29, 2023 at 8:55:15 AM CDT, "Bill B" <bb...@optonline.net> wrote:
> >
> >> On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 10:48:10 PM UTC-4, Mark D. wrote:
> >>> On Apr 28, 2023 at 4:52:52 PM CDT, "Steve Mc" <steve...@>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> In fact, I use it for the soundtrack on some of my videos, most
> >>>> recently Kauai waves. It was a very nice fit.
> >>> That's because, despite what Bill said, it's much closer to Hawaiian music
> >>> than r'n'r.
> >>
> >>
> >> I remember when members of this group gave me a hard time calling "Sleep Walk"
> >> R&R, and Jim agreed with me.
> >
> > Well it doesn't rock and it doesn't roll--it flows--but I've always thought
> > genre arguments about oddball hits were pointless.
> --------------
> I agree 100%.
> "Rock & roll" in 1959 meant anything that was marketed to teenagers,
> including artists like Paul Anka and Bobby Darin who made *mainly* pop
> records, and also including novelty instrumentals like "Quiet Village."

"QV" was NEVER known as rock and roll. It's Exotica.

The WIKI page for QV.

Genre Exotica, Space age pop

From the album Quiet Village: The Exotic Sounds of Martin Denny

On Apr 29, 2023 at 10:25:49 AM CDT, "Bill B" <bbug2@optonline.net> wrote:

> On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 10:13:44 AM UTC-4, Mark D. wrote:
>> On Apr 29, 2023 at 8:55:15 AM CDT, "Bill B" <> wrote:
>>
>
>>>> That's because, despite what Bill said, it's much closer to Hawaiian music
>>>> than r'n'r.
>>>
>>>
>>> I remember when members of this group gave me a hard time calling "Sleep Walk"
>>> R&R, and Jim agreed with me.
>
>> Well it doesn't rock and it doesn't roll--it flows--but I've always thought
>> genre arguments about oddball hits were pointless.
>
> Then why did you start one? :-)

Didn't mean to. I set it off accidentally when I was telling Bruce that most
of us liked it despite his strong negative reaction. :)

--md

remove "xx" for email

On Apr 29, 2023 at 10:27:37 AM CDT, "DianeE" <DianeE@NoSpam.net> wrote:

> On 4/29/2023 10:13 AM, Mark D. wrote:
>> On Apr 29, 2023 at 8:55:15 AM CDT, "Bill B" <bbug2@optonline.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 10:48:10 PM UTC-4, Mark D. wrote:
>>>> On Apr 28, 2023 at 4:52:52 PM CDT, "Steve Mc" <steve...@>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In fact, I use it for the soundtrack on some of my videos, most
>>>>> recently Kauai waves. It was a very nice fit.
>>>> That's because, despite what Bill said, it's much closer to Hawaiian music
>>>> than r'n'r.
>>>
>>>
>>> I remember when members of this group gave me a hard time calling "Sleep Walk"
>>> R&R, and Jim agreed with me.
>>
>> Well it doesn't rock and it doesn't roll--it flows--but I've always thought
>> genre arguments about oddball hits were pointless.
> --------------
> I agree 100%.
> "Rock & roll" in 1959 meant anything that was marketed to teenagers,
> including artists like Paul Anka and Bobby Darin who made *mainly* pop
> records, and also including novelty instrumentals like "Quiet Village."
> By today's standards, much of what was called R&R back then...isn't.
> But then again, much of today's music which is referred to as "Pop"
> sounds like R&R to me (e.g. Taylor Swift or the Jonas Brothers).

Bingo! The definition of a genre keeps changing, so why argue about it.

--md

remove "xx" for email

On 4/29/2023 11:40 AM, Bruce wrote:
> On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 11:27:41 AM UTC-4, DianeE wrote:
>> On 4/29/2023 10:13 AM, Mark D. wrote:
>>> On Apr 29, 2023 at 8:55:15 AM CDT, "Bill B" <bb...@optonline.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 10:48:10 PM UTC-4, Mark D. wrote:
>>>>> On Apr 28, 2023 at 4:52:52 PM CDT, "Steve Mc" <steve...@>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In fact, I use it for the soundtrack on some of my videos, most
>>>>>> recently Kauai waves. It was a very nice fit.
>>>>> That's because, despite what Bill said, it's much closer to Hawaiian music
>>>>> than r'n'r.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I remember when members of this group gave me a hard time calling "Sleep Walk"
>>>> R&R, and Jim agreed with me.
>>>
>>> Well it doesn't rock and it doesn't roll--it flows--but I've always thought
>>> genre arguments about oddball hits were pointless.
>> --------------
>> I agree 100%.
>> "Rock & roll" in 1959 meant anything that was marketed to teenagers,
>> including artists like Paul Anka and Bobby Darin who made *mainly* pop
>> records, and also including novelty instrumentals like "Quiet Village."
>
> "QV" was NEVER known as rock and roll. It's Exotica.
>
> The WIKI page for QV.
>
> Genre Exotica, Space age pop
>
> From the album Quiet Village: The Exotic Sounds of Martin Denny
-----------
I assure you, no one would have said, in 1959, "Oh, that's Space age
pop." It was played on the Top 40 (or top however-many) radio station,
aimed at a teenage audience, and thus assumed to be rock & roll.
I liked it and bought the record.
Do you think "Witch Doctor" and "Purple People Eater" are R&R? Not now,
they're not, but in the 1950s they were lumped into that category
because R&R was about who they were marketed to, not what they actually
sounded like.

On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 6:03:05 PM UTC-4, DianeE wrote:
> On 4/29/2023 11:40 AM, Bruce wrote:

> >> "Rock & roll" in 1959 meant anything that was marketed to teenagers,
> >> including artists like Paul Anka and Bobby Darin who made *mainly* pop
> >> records, and also including novelty instrumentals like "Quiet Village."
> >
> > "QV" was NEVER known as rock and roll. It's Exotica.
> >
> > The WIKI page for QV.
> >
> > Genre Exotica, Space age pop
> >
> > From the album Quiet Village: The Exotic Sounds of Martin Denny
> -----------
> I assure you, no one would have said, in 1959, "Oh, that's Space age
> pop." It was played on the Top 40 (or top however-many) radio station,
> aimed at a teenage audience, and thus assumed to be rock & roll.

First off, I don't agree that it was aimed at a teenage audience. Secondly, lots of stuff on Top 40 radio in those days was not rock and roll and was not aimed at a teenage audience. Big hits like "Calcutta" and "Exodus" and "So Rare" and "Deck Of Cards" and "The Three Bells" and "Lonely Street" Andy Williams and "Night" and "The Village Of St. Bernadette" were not rock and roll. As far as what they were "aimed" at, they were aimed at whoever might like it and buy it. Everybody here likes certain hits that were not at all rock and roll.

> I liked it and bought the record.

That proves nothing. You like lots of non rock and roll, like "Smile" by King Cole and "Young At Heart" by Sinatra.

> Do you think "Witch Doctor" and "Purple People Eater" are R&R? Not now,
> they're not, but in the 1950s they were lumped into that category
> because R&R was about who they were marketed to, not what they actually
> sounded like.

I'd say both were and still are rock and roll novelties.

On 4/29/2023 6:25 PM, Bruce wrote:
> On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 6:03:05 PM UTC-4, DianeE wrote:
>> On 4/29/2023 11:40 AM, Bruce wrote:
>
>>>> "Rock & roll" in 1959 meant anything that was marketed to teenagers,
>>>> including artists like Paul Anka and Bobby Darin who made *mainly* pop
>>>> records, and also including novelty instrumentals like "Quiet Village."
>>>
>>> "QV" was NEVER known as rock and roll. It's Exotica.
>>>
>>> The WIKI page for QV.
>>>
>>> Genre Exotica, Space age pop
>>>
>>> From the album Quiet Village: The Exotic Sounds of Martin Denny
>> -----------
>> I assure you, no one would have said, in 1959, "Oh, that's Space age
>> pop." It was played on the Top 40 (or top however-many) radio station,
>> aimed at a teenage audience, and thus assumed to be rock & roll.
>
> First off, I don't agree that it was aimed at a teenage audience. Secondly, lots of stuff on Top 40 radio in those days was not rock and roll and was not aimed at a teenage audience. Big hits like "Calcutta" and "Exodus" and "So Rare" and "Deck Of Cards" and "The Three Bells" and "Lonely Street" Andy Williams and "Night" and "The Village Of St. Bernadette" were not rock and roll. As far as what they were "aimed" at, they were aimed at whoever might like it and buy it. Everybody here likes certain hits that were not at all rock and roll.
>
>> I liked it and bought the record.
>
> That proves nothing. You like lots of non rock and roll, like "Smile" by King Cole and "Young At Heart" by Sinatra.
-----------
Yes, I like them, but I heard them on my mother's radio station, not on
WINS or WMGM. That's the point. We referred to the stations that
catered to young people as rock & roll radio, and we referred to the
music they played as rock & roll.

I was too young to listen to Alan Freed and had no older siblings, so I
never heard of him until he got into trouble...but what he meant by rock
& roll quickly changed into, as I said, a marketing category.
------------

>
>> Do you think "Witch Doctor" and "Purple People Eater" are R&R? Not now,
>> they're not, but in the 1950s they were lumped into that category
>> because R&R was about who they were marketed to, not what they actually
>> sounded like.
>
> I'd say both were and still are rock and roll novelties.
-----------

Well, you can dance to "Purple People Eater" if you really try
hard...."Witch Doctor" not so much.

On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 11:16:50 PM UTC-4, DianeE wrote:
> On 4/29/2023 6:25 PM, Bruce wrote:
> > On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 6:03:05 PM UTC-4, DianeE wrote:
> >> On 4/29/2023 11:40 AM, Bruce wrote:
> >
> >>>> "Rock & roll" in 1959 meant anything that was marketed to teenagers,
> >>>> including artists like Paul Anka and Bobby Darin who made *mainly* pop
> >>>> records, and also including novelty instrumentals like "Quiet Village."
> >>>
> >>> "QV" was NEVER known as rock and roll. It's Exotica.
> >>>
> >>> The WIKI page for QV.
> >>>
> >>> Genre Exotica, Space age pop
> >>>
> >>> From the album Quiet Village: The Exotic Sounds of Martin Denny
> >> -----------
> >> I assure you, no one would have said, in 1959, "Oh, that's Space age
> >> pop." It was played on the Top 40 (or top however-many) radio station,
> >> aimed at a teenage audience, and thus assumed to be rock & roll.
> >
> > First off, I don't agree that it was aimed at a teenage audience. Secondly, lots of stuff on Top 40 radio in those days was not rock and roll and was not aimed at a teenage audience. Big hits like "Calcutta" and "Exodus" and "So Rare" and "Deck Of Cards" and "The Three Bells" and "Lonely Street" Andy Williams and "Night" and "The Village Of St. Bernadette" were not rock and roll. As far as what they were "aimed" at, they were aimed at whoever might like it and buy it. Everybody here likes certain hits that were not at all rock and roll.
> >
> >> I liked it and bought the record.
> >
> > That proves nothing. You like lots of non rock and roll, like "Smile" by King Cole and "Young At Heart" by Sinatra.
> -----------
> Yes, I like them, but I heard them on my mother's radio station, not on
> WINS or WMGM. That's the point. We referred to the stations that
> catered to young people as rock & roll radio, and we referred to the
> music they played as rock & roll.
>
> I was too young to listen to Alan Freed and had no older siblings, so I
> never heard of him until he got into trouble...but what he meant by rock
> & roll quickly changed into, as I said, a marketing category.
> ------------
> >
> >> Do you think "Witch Doctor" and "Purple People Eater" are R&R? Not now,
> >> they're not, but in the 1950s they were lumped into that category
> >> because R&R was about who they were marketed to, not what they actually
> >> sounded like.
> >
> > I'd say both were and still are rock and roll novelties.
> -----------
>
> Well, you can dance to "Purple People Eater" if you really try
> hard...."Witch Doctor" not so much.

There's plenty of rock and roll that you can't dance to.