On Sunday, March 26, 2023 at 9:34:45 AM UTC-7, Pamela Brown wrote:
> On Friday, March 24, 2023 at 6:47:50 AM UTC-5, Norbert K wrote:
> > On Friday, March 24, 2023 at 3:20:42 AM UTC-7, Pamela Brown wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, March 22, 2023 at 6:42:48 AM UTC-5, Norbert K wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, March 22, 2023 at 3:52:54 AM UTC-7, Pamela Brown wrote:
> > > > > On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 6:31:03 AM UTC-5, Norbert K wrote:
> > > > > > On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 4:18:14 AM UTC-7, Pamela Brown wrote:
> > > > > > > On Thursday, March 16, 2023 at 10:51:01 AM UTC-5, Norbert K wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Thursday, March 16, 2023 at 7:47:38 AM UTC-7, Pamela Brown wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 8:45:37 AM UTC-5, Norbert K wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 4:39:24 AM UTC-7, Pamela Brown wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > On Sunday, March 12, 2023 at 12:06:27 PM UTC-5, Norbert K wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > On Saturday, March 11, 2023 at 10:23:37 AM UTC-8, Pamela Brown wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 9:29:15 AM UTC-6, Norbert K wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thursday, March 9, 2023 at 1:47:00 PM UTC-8, Pamela Brown wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wednesday, March 8, 2023 at 11:24:23 AM UTC-6, Norbert K wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wednesday, March 8, 2023 at 5:38:43 AM UTC-8, Pamela Brown wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tuesday, March 7, 2023 at 7:35:52 AM UTC-6, Norbert K wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sunday, February 26, 2023 at 11:33:45 AM UTC-8, Pamela Brown wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Friday, February 24, 2023 at 10:16:00 AM UTC-6, Norbert K wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Friday, February 24, 2023 at 4:37:22 AM UTC-8, Pamela Brown wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thursday, February 23, 2023 at 1:42:08 PM UTC-6, Norbert K wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thursday, February 23, 2023 at 11:22:27 AM UTC-8, Pamela Brown wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Friday, February 17, 2023 at 6:24:01 AM UTC-6, Norbert K wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wednesday, February 15, 2023 at 5:29:08 AM UTC-8, Pamela Brown wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Monday, February 13, 2023 at 7:10:18 AM UTC-6, Norbert K wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sunday, February 12, 2023 at 3:38:41 PM UTC-8, Bruce wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://dvk6to1kg8ie0..cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/aPEd91M.jpeg
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is the image Yoko used for the cover of her first post-Dec. 1980 album, Season of Glass.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does anyone have any speculations as to why she would do this? Her own record company told Yoko this was in bad taste. Yoko herself stated that this cover was necessary to remind people that John had not died of old age or illness; he had been killed. That story does not make any sense because everyone was well aware of how he had died.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think it could be to her a symbol of what her obsession with John was all about...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think it was a crass gimmick to obtain attention and (Yoko hoped) sales. On her next album, Yoko superimposed an image of John onto a contemporary photograph of her and Sean. She also claimed to have received visits from John in the studio while she cranked out her dreadful music. This was all for publicity. She well into her relationship with decorator Sam Havadtoy (whom Lennon had deemed a "mercenary pretty boy") at the time.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Guiliano, in Lennon in America, describes John's 'going back' to Yoko as involving substances that caused him to become violently ill (pp 77-78) in addition to all the usual trickery...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's one of the strangest episodes in all of LennOno. Yoko enticed John back to the Dakota by promising him a smoking cure; next thing, he was back at the Dakota -- still smoking, of course -- and Yoko was pregnant.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > May Pang was on high alert prior to John's supposed smoking cure; she knew Yoko was up to something.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then there's John Green's account of meeting Lennon at this time, with Ono telling Green: "I think John's been poisoned."
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > May was right. Yoko had her completely out-maneuvered...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yoko's statement to John Green speaks volumes, imo...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yoko knew how to regress and dominate John. (Remember the disturbing Annie Leibovitz photograph of the naked Lennon clinging to the impassive, clothed Ono? John said that that image perfectly captured their relationship.) May mentions in her book that John acted as if he wanted her (May) to be a mother to him, while she wanted John to be a functioning adult.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So Yoko had this manipulativeness, and then you factor in the drugs, the occult, and Yoko's likely timing of John's arrival to occur when she was at maximum fertility.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree. I think we can now see the extent of Yoko's desperation to force John to return to her and keep him in her thrall until he was dead...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I too had that insight about Annie L's last photo of John and Yoko...John is completely open and has nothing to hide...while Yoko is shrouded in darkness and mystery...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think this can also cause us to ask some tough questions about John's death...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://inbroaddaylight.wordpress.com/2022/01/01/was-the-untimely-death-of-john-lennon-another-murder-most-foul/
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pamela
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe MDC was a lone nut (and an acid-casualty; no surprise there) with no prior connections to Yoko.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I am very suspicious of why Yoko sent John into the so-called Bermuda Triangle at a time when Yoko was superstitious as she was and popular culture was full of rumors about the region's ability to swallow airplanes and ships. As Goldman cautiously wrote, this decision of Yoko's "demands to be pondered."
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I see qualities of a man-can with MDC and John's assassination....I can't seem to get away from that...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And yes, I do consider it entirely possible that Yoko deliberately sent John into harm's way in the Bermuda trip...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pamela
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (some of my tracks...https://open.spotify..com/artist/5OqS5IO1IFga3j0OHxqVPZ)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I used to wonder about MDC's Japanese-American wife Gloria. How did such a disturbed and porcine guy end up with a delicate-featured, seemingly normal woman like her? Then I remember that she was raised in a strict religious environment -- and that this made her susceptible to MDC's Mansonesque religious mumbo-jumbo. And as for her seeming normality, wasn't she aware of his motive in traveling to New York City? This would make her morally responsible for failing to intervene.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ***
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I consider Gloria a possible controller. She certainly knew how to push his buttons. And I do not think she has been completely honest with her answers.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Back to Bermuda, I know of a respected professional musician who met with Sam Green on an anniversary of Lennon's murder. Green was Yoko's lover (she intended to marry him) at the time of the Bermuda trip. He was with Yoko when she learned that Lennon at made it through sea squalls to the island. Yoko looked at Sam and said, exasperatedly, "What are we going to do now?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ***
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That speaks volumes, imo. I guess we have our answer. Thank you for sharing this...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pamela
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > P.S. I don't know if I told you about my trip to NYC and the Dakota after John died. I went with a friend, also from Minnesota. We talked to a garage attendant who was there in the afternoon and that night when John was shot. He said John gave Chapman the Double Fantasy album and then signed it. He pointed out the private courtyard and said that if John's limo had let them out in there instead of on the street, he would have been safe, at least that day. He pointed out Yoko's boxy orangish car in the courtyard and showed us where their apartment was. He said Yoko and Sean were at home. There was a terrible energy there. I could not even comprehend it. When we returned to Minnesota a few days later my friend almost died of a collapsed lung. I have always wondered if Yoko had tried to put a curse on us...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the anecdote! Was the car a Mercedes station wagon?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > ***
> > > > > > > > > > > > > It could have been. Not unlike this one...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.mercedesmotoring.com/cars/194/
> > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah, I've seen photographs of their car, and it looked a lot like that, though it would have been a slightly earlier model. IIRC, Fred was driving John around when they heard McCartney's "Coming Up" on the radio, which may have been a catalyst in Lennon's return to songwriting.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even if I were unaware of Lennon's murder, I'd consider the Dakota forbidding-looking. There's a reason Polanski used that building -- rechristened the "Black Bramford" -- as the setting for Rosemary's Baby.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > ***
> > > > > > > > > > > > > It is indeed. Even the gargoyles seem ready to screech and attack you...it is ironic that it i also so beautiful...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.pinterest.fr/pin/84653667971318015/
> > > > > > > > > > > > I really like the intricacy of it.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > And there is, of course, a tragic Beatles/Lennon connection to Rosemary's Baby through the Charles Manson murders. Sharon Tate was married to Polanski and frequently on the set during the filming...
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > And there was that weird episode during one of Lennon's drug- and alcohol-fueled rampages in L.A. during which Lennon kept insisting, "It's Roman Polanski's fault!" (It's not clear what the "it" in question is.)
> > > > > > > > > > > That is truly bizarre...until you think of the possibility that John thought there was a curse on the Dakota because Polanski had filmed Rosemary's Baby there...
> > > > > > > > > > It was the same night as the Kotex-Toubadour incident, and the same night Lennon knocked Jesse Ed Davis unconscious with a bottle. He was out of his mind.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > May mentions in her book that she didn't understand why Lennon was raging against Roman Polanski, since they had met Polanski on a few occasions and Lennon had never showed any animosity towards the Polish director.
> > > > > > > > > I am starting to think catch phrases about John, such as 'out of his mind' may be a kind of psycho-babble.
> > > > > > > > I meant that he was extremely high. He'd started in at Lost on Larrabee, then progressed to guzzling "milkshakes" at the Troubadour.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > His behavior at the Troubadour made the papers. He had the Kotex on his forehead, and their waitress sneered at him. He asked, "Do you know who I am?" She replied, "Yeah, you're some asshole with a Kotex on his head."
> > > > > > > Surely someone asked John follow-up questions about what he said about Polanski?
> > > > > > Hmm, I can't find any record of such an inquiry. I'll quote May's account of the Polanski incident in a new thread.
> > > > > If May is comfortable presenting John as a dangerous loonie that she somehow managed to put up with, rather than taking the time to dig deeper, should we be asking ourselves if this is actual love or 'watered-down love'?
> > > > > Pamela
> > > > > https://dylagence.wordpress.com/
> > > > I believe that she loved him and put up with his faults. We've known Lennon was dangerous when inebriated since the Bob Wooler incident, if not earlier.
> > > >
> > > > When one steps back and takes the two notorious Troubadour incidents (one of which was triggered by Yoko calling to tell John that David Spinozza had earlier given her a "really great fuck"), in context, one sees a by-and-large happy and productive John Lennon. Think of his guest stint at the radio station in 1974. His wit and humor -- and his pride in his work -- were in full swing.
> > > I have to wonder if May was simply 'putting up with his faults', as she seems comfortable presenting him as a hopelessly dangerous loonie. I think we may find that there is another level of cover-up about what was really going on...
> > I accept May's portrait of John as a man with his share of plusses and minuses. The negatives include the Troubadour incidents, the fear of May's diminutive Chinese mother, and -- worst of all -- susceptibility to Yoko's manipulations.
> >
> > The plusses include the focus Lennon was able to bring to his songwriting (with the notebook at his bedside) and studio work (recording Walls and Bridges at astounding speed and having it out in weeks), and the humor and warmth he had for friends when he was comfortable, the affection he had for May as a lover, etc. I see a balanced portrait and no reason to suspect any sort of cover-up on May's part.
> Your choice.
>
> I don't buy it. In fact, the more of May's statements I read, the more they sound like Yoko's...

I still have to wonder if Yoko tried to put a curse on my friend Jay and me when we stood for at least two hours talking with the garage attendant who had been there when John was shot. He pointed to the window in the corner of the 7th floor. There was a light on. She's at home, he assured us, because her car was in the courtyard. That's her study, he said...There was an eeriness, but that I expected to experience because of the tragedy that had taken place there.
But then, as soon as we flew back to Minnesota, Jay's lung collapsed and he almost died. And then not long after that his brother, Jeff, who looked a lot like Jay, killed himself. I think we were in her thrall that day...

Pamela

On Wednesday, December 6, 2023 at 10:00:19 PM UTC-6, pamina58 wrote:
> I still have to wonder if Yoko tried to put a curse on my friend Jay and me when we stood for at least two hours talking with the garage attendant who had been there when John was shot. He pointed to the window in the corner of the 7th floor. There was a light on. She's at home, he assured us, because her car was in the courtyard. That's her study, he said...There was an eeriness, but that I expected to experience because of the tragedy that had taken place there.
> But then, as soon as we flew back to Minnesota, Jay's lung collapsed and he almost died. And then not long after that his brother, Jeff, who looked a lot like Jay, killed himself. I think we were in her thrall that day...
>
> Pamela
With all the spamming, I want to bump this...

On Saturday, December 9, 2023 at 9:28:39 PM UTC-6, Pamela Brown wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 6, 2023 at 10:00:19 PM UTC-6, pamina58 wrote:
> > I still have to wonder if Yoko tried to put a curse on my friend Jay and me when we stood for at least two hours talking with the garage attendant who had been there when John was shot. He pointed to the window in the corner of the 7th floor. There was a light on. She's at home, he assured us, because her car was in the courtyard. That's her study, he said...There was an eeriness, but that I expected to experience because of the tragedy that had taken place there.
> > But then, as soon as we flew back to Minnesota, Jay's lung collapsed and he almost died. And then not long after that his brother, Jeff, who looked a lot like Jay, killed himself. I think we were in her thrall that day...
> >
> > Pamela
> With all the spamming, I want to bump this...
Article re Roosevelt Hospital...
https://www.upstate.edu/whatsup/2011/1207-dr-david-halleran-the-surgeon-who-tried-to-save-john-lennons-life-recalls-the-events-of-dec-8-1980.php

On Sunday, December 17, 2023 at 3:47:21 PM UTC-6, Pamela Brown wrote:
> On Saturday, December 9, 2023 at 9:28:39 PM UTC-6, Pamela Brown wrote:
> > On Wednesday, December 6, 2023 at 10:00:19 PM UTC-6, pamina58 wrote:
> > > I still have to wonder if Yoko tried to put a curse on my friend Jay and me when we stood for at least two hours talking with the garage attendant who had been there when John was shot. He pointed to the window in the corner of the 7th floor. There was a light on. She's at home, he assured us, because her car was in the courtyard. That's her study, he said...There was an eeriness, but that I expected to experience because of the tragedy that had taken place there.
> > > But then, as soon as we flew back to Minnesota, Jay's lung collapsed and he almost died. And then not long after that his brother, Jeff, who looked a lot like Jay, killed himself. I think we were in her thrall that day....
> > >
> > > Pamela
> > With all the spamming, I want to bump this...
> Article re Roosevelt Hospital...
> https://www.upstate.edu/whatsup/2011/1207-dr-david-halleran-the-surgeon-who-tried-to-save-john-lennons-life-recalls-the-events-of-dec-8-1980.php
Some who spoke out...
https://ultimateclassicrock.com/john-lennon-murder-rock-star-reactions/

On Monday, December 18, 2023 at 5:02:51 AM UTC-8, Pamela Brown wrote:
> On Sunday, December 17, 2023 at 3:47:21 PM UTC-6, Pamela Brown wrote:
> > On Saturday, December 9, 2023 at 9:28:39 PM UTC-6, Pamela Brown wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, December 6, 2023 at 10:00:19 PM UTC-6, pamina58 wrote:
> > > > I still have to wonder if Yoko tried to put a curse on my friend Jay and me when we stood for at least two hours talking with the garage attendant who had been there when John was shot. He pointed to the window in the corner of the 7th floor. There was a light on. She's at home, he assured us, because her car was in the courtyard. That's her study, he said...There was an eeriness, but that I expected to experience because of the tragedy that had taken place there.
> > > > But then, as soon as we flew back to Minnesota, Jay's lung collapsed and he almost died. And then not long after that his brother, Jeff, who looked a lot like Jay, killed himself. I think we were in her thrall that day...
> > > >
> > > > Pamela
> > > With all the spamming, I want to bump this...
> > Article re Roosevelt Hospital...
> > https://www.upstate.edu/whatsup/2011/1207-dr-david-halleran-the-surgeon-who-tried-to-save-john-lennons-life-recalls-the-events-of-dec-8-1980.php
> Some who spoke out...
> https://ultimateclassicrock.com/john-lennon-murder-rock-star-reactions/

Coincidentally, Julian Lennon had become a big Rush fan in the late 1970s. When Neil Peart's death was announced, Julian paid tribute to the virtuoso drummer on social media.

BTW, good to see a real post in this group, Pamela!