https://youtu.be/aM8I5Z5MYdA

At last a bit of decency coming
out of the Netherlands. Maybe
the Brits and the French could
follow suit.

dk

Dan Koren schrieb am Donnerstag, 6. Juli 2023 um 07:32:07 UTC+2:
> https://youtu.be/aM8I5Z5MYdA
>
> At last a bit of decency coming
> out of the Netherlands. Maybe
> the Brits and the French could
> follow suit.

Na, they shouldnt - hate this virtue signalling bullshit; just to get some more votes in.

Should the Netherlands apologize like these people did to the black-americans?

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/6dtYW7GYpLg

Do any of the slaves still live? What do people gain from such nonsense? That European slavery was in many ways inhumane is taught in almost every school in Europe...

>
> dk

Dan Koren schrieb am Donnerstag, 6. Juli 2023 um 07:32:07 UTC+2:
> https://youtu.be/aM8I5Z5MYdA
>
> At last a bit of decency coming
> out of the Netherlands. Maybe
> the Brits and the French could
> follow suit.
>
> dk

How about shifting your attention to east asian countries for a moment wrt doing bad stuff:

What about Japan? "Why Won’t Japan Apologize in a Way That Satisfies South Korea?"

https://thediplomat.com/2023/05/why-wont-japan-apologize-in-a-way-that-satisfies-south-korea/

On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 10:41:46 PM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:
> Dan Koren schrieb am Donnerstag, 6. Juli 2023 um 07:32:07 UTC+2:
> > https://youtu.be/aM8I5Z5MYdA
> >
> > At last a bit of decency coming
> > out of the Netherlands. Maybe
> > the Brits and the French could
> > follow suit.
>
> How about shifting your attention to east asian countries for a moment wrt doing bad stuff:
> What about Japan? "Why Won’t Japan Apologize in a Way That Satisfies South Korea?"
> https://thediplomat.com/2023/05/why-wont-japan-apologize-in-a-way-that-satisfies-south-korea/

All in due time. These are all well
known issues and plenty of people
are raising them already. The Japs
have been mean and cruel to others
for a long time. Give them another
nuke or two and theu will become
nicer.

dk

Dan Koren schrieb am Donnerstag, 6. Juli 2023 um 07:46:20 UTC+2:
> On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 10:41:46 PM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:
> > Dan Koren schrieb am Donnerstag, 6. Juli 2023 um 07:32:07 UTC+2:
> > > https://youtu.be/aM8I5Z5MYdA
> > >
> > > At last a bit of decency coming
> > > out of the Netherlands. Maybe
> > > the Brits and the French could
> > > follow suit.
> >
> > How about shifting your attention to east asian countries for a moment wrt doing bad stuff:
> > What about Japan? "Why Won’t Japan Apologize in a Way That Satisfies South Korea?"
> > https://thediplomat.com/2023/05/why-wont-japan-apologize-in-a-way-that-satisfies-south-korea/
> All in due time. These are all well
> known issues and plenty of people
> are raising them already. The Japs
> have been mean and cruel to others
> for a long time. Give them another
> nuke or two and theu will become
> nicer.

Besides being besides the point this is kind of a fucked up and heartless thing to say in this context, no? I think you should watch "Grave of the Fireflies": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vPeTSRd580

Point being: as much as Andy has swallowed up the anti-Zionist narrative of the left, you have swallowed up the anti-Western narrative of the left.

>
> dk

Marc S schrieb am Donnerstag, 6. Juli 2023 um 07:56:28 UTC+2:
> Dan Koren schrieb am Donnerstag, 6. Juli 2023 um 07:46:20 UTC+2:
> > On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 10:41:46 PM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:
> > > Dan Koren schrieb am Donnerstag, 6. Juli 2023 um 07:32:07 UTC+2:
> > > > https://youtu.be/aM8I5Z5MYdA
> > > >
> > > > At last a bit of decency coming
> > > > out of the Netherlands. Maybe
> > > > the Brits and the French could
> > > > follow suit.
> > >
> > > How about shifting your attention to east asian countries for a moment wrt doing bad stuff:
> > > What about Japan? "Why Won’t Japan Apologize in a Way That Satisfies South Korea?"
> > > https://thediplomat.com/2023/05/why-wont-japan-apologize-in-a-way-that-satisfies-south-korea/
> > All in due time. These are all well
> > known issues and plenty of people
> > are raising them already. The Japs
> > have been mean and cruel to others
> > for a long time. Give them another
> > nuke or two and theu will become
> > nicer.
> Besides being besides the point this is kind of a fucked up and heartless thing to say in this context, no? I think you should watch "Grave of the Fireflies": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vPeTSRd580
>
> Point being: as much as Andy has swallowed up the anti-Zionist narrative of the left, you have swallowed up the anti-Western narrative of the left.
>
> >
> > dk

The West is actually the only region that has critically examined its past or at least much more so than others - sure it's not perfect, but it's better, much better than in other places. Other nations should actually try to learn from the west, instead they accuse the west for the misery they are in - very funny... South Korea only benefitted from the USA, maybe if other countries were more open for democratic ideas and capitalism things would change for the better in said countries; The Dutch King apologizing for the slavery sure won't change a thing in the african countries, all it does it make some Dutch feel good about themselves because of virtue signalling.

Today, similar to how Israel gets shit on by the Islamic and communist countries and also in part by the left in Israel, the West gets shit on by islamic and communist countries and the international left - it's all a big fucking joke.

On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 10:56:28 PM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:
>
> I think you should watch "Grave of the Fireflies":
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vPeTSRd580

"Grave of the Fireflies" is one of 4 movies that reside
permanently on my PC. I probably saw it first before
you were born. The other 2 are "After Life", "Back to
1942", and "Woman of the Dunes",

> Point being: as much as Andy has swallowed up the
> anti-Zionist narrative of the left, you have swallowed
> up the anti-Western narrative of the left.

Total non-sense. The colonial era and the behavior of
the colonial powers in the colonies they occupied are
very well documented. No ideological or political filters
are need to figure out what was going on.

dk

On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 10:39:28 PM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:
> Dan Koren schrieb am Donnerstag, 6. Juli 2023 um 07:32:07 UTC+2:
> > https://youtu.be/aM8I5Z5MYdA
> >
> > At last a bit of decency coming
> > out of the Netherlands. Maybe
> > the Brits and the French could
> > follow suit.
>
> Na, they shouldnt - hate this virtue signalling bullshit; just to get some more votes in.
> Should the Netherlands apologize like these people did to the black-americans?
> https://www.youtube.com/shorts/6dtYW7GYpLg
> Do any of the slaves still live?

Do any of the people killed at Auschwitz,
Treblinka, Sobibor, Majdanek, or Dachau
still live?

> What do people gain from such nonsense?

These are symbolic gestures that show
others that the former colonial powers
have at least begun to understand they
committed crimes against humanity.

> That European slavery was in many
> ways inhumane is taught in almost
> every school in Europe...

Has that resulted in any tangible,
verifiable changes in thinking and
behavior?

dk

On 7/6/2023 2:11 AM, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 10:39:28 PM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:
>> Dan Koren schrieb am Donnerstag, 6. Juli 2023 um 07:32:07 UTC+2:
>>> https://youtu.be/aM8I5Z5MYdA
>>>
>>> At last a bit of decency coming
>>> out of the Netherlands. Maybe
>>> the Brits and the French could
>>> follow suit.
>>
>> Na, they shouldnt - hate this virtue signalling bullshit; just to get some more votes in.
>> Should the Netherlands apologize like these people did to the black-americans?
>> https://www.youtube.com/shorts/6dtYW7GYpLg
>> Do any of the slaves still live?
>
> Do any of the people killed at Auschwitz,
> Treblinka, Sobibor, Majdanek, or Dachau
> still live?
>
>> What do people gain from such nonsense?
>
> These are symbolic gestures that show
> others that the former colonial powers
> have at least begun to understand they
> committed crimes against humanity.
>

There is little colonialism left in the world, little slave trading, etc. Nobody living today is responsible in any way for actions of their forbears. My own ancestors were in no position to enslave anybody or invade any one else's country.

>> That European slavery was in many
>> ways inhumane is taught in almost
>> every school in Europe...
>
> Has that resulted in any tangible,
> verifiable changes in thinking and
> behavior?
>
> dk

Dan Koren schrieb am Donnerstag, 6. Juli 2023 um 08:07:37 UTC+2:
> On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 10:56:28 PM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:
> >
> > I think you should watch "Grave of the Fireflies":
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vPeTSRd580
> "Grave of the Fireflies" is one of 4 movies that reside
> permanently on my PC. I probably saw it first before
> you were born. The other 2 are "After Life", "Back to
> 1942", and "Woman of the Dunes",

That is all very nice to know, but my point was that it is distasteful to joke about Japan getting nuked again; especially in this context, maybe in another context. Because the Japanese didn't do enough to address their past crimes they deserve to get nuked again? haha... not very funny...

> > Point being: as much as Andy has swallowed up the
> > anti-Zionist narrative of the left, you have swallowed
> > up the anti-Western narrative of the left.
> Total non-sense. The colonial era and the behavior of
> the colonial powers in the colonies they occupied are
> very well documented. No ideological or political filters
> are need to figure out what was going on.

You just don't seem to get my point...

It is not just well documented, but (my point) it is addressed at every possible opportunity, because of the leftist anti-racist, and anti-colonialist agenda (guess why they hate Israel so much...). If they actually wanted to fix things in Africa or say Palestine, they should maybe address the Africans and Palestinians, eh? Almost noone in Europe would defend the atrocities committed by the colonizers... Why should the Dutch King say sorry for the slavery? Explain to me Dan, what difference does this make? What does the Dutch King have to do with the slavery? It's all just virtue-signalling... far-leftist bullshit politics

Should Scholz apologize to Israel for the shoah? Scholz apologizing doesn't change nada, he should change his politics wrt Israel/Palestine - he should apologize for his stupid Israel-Politics, but not for the shoah - he should apologize (just like you Dan) for not learning enough from it.

Is the West to blame for how fucked up the situation is in african countries? How come then, the Jews created a beautiful after being completely fucked up the whole world? Does not add up, does it? The Jews didn't go around crying and blaming the West like many of the African and Islamic countries do.

The west has done very much to critically examine it's past, and others should learn from it. The west is self-destructing with all this self-hatred and self-criticism.

You know what would be reasonable? If the German government gave Greece some more reparations payment; not the Dutch King apologizing for slavery... lol

I am pretty much pro imperialism to further human rights ;) Fuck cultural-relativism.

>
> dk

Dan Koren schrieb am Donnerstag, 6. Juli 2023 um 08:11:38 UTC+2:
> On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 10:39:28 PM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:
> > Dan Koren schrieb am Donnerstag, 6. Juli 2023 um 07:32:07 UTC+2:
> > > https://youtu.be/aM8I5Z5MYdA
> > >
> > > At last a bit of decency coming
> > > out of the Netherlands. Maybe
> > > the Brits and the French could
> > > follow suit.
> >
> > Na, they shouldnt - hate this virtue signalling bullshit; just to get some more votes in.
> > Should the Netherlands apologize like these people did to the black-americans?
> > https://www.youtube.com/shorts/6dtYW7GYpLg
> > Do any of the slaves still live?
> Do any of the people killed at Auschwitz,
> Treblinka, Sobibor, Majdanek, or Dachau
> still live?

Should Scholz apologize for Ausschwitz? Or should Scholz apologize for not learning anything from it, and practicing stupid Israeli-politics?

>
> > What do people gain from such nonsense?
> These are symbolic gestures that show
> others that the former colonial powers
> have at least begun to understand they
> committed crimes against humanity.

It's all a farce... as if it means anything... it's just politics you idiot.. It's like Herman saying "Dear Africans of the former dutch colonies I apologize for the slavery" ...

The Dutch addressing these specific atrocities of the past in educational institutions is a far greater gesture than this stupid stuff, so I don't get this shit.

And one should also note the fact that the colonies were not only detrimental; as I have shown you evidence already: say Hongkong or South Africa... South Africa is morally one of the most advanced countries in Africa now (there are many problems, but it's the place in africa I would choose to live in, if I had to choose a place in africa to live in), and HK is much more advanced morally than China... People seem to neglect this. And Hongkong-people wanted help from the west (especially US and also UK) wrt to China... seems as if the colonizers were not all bad ;)

And how about islamic countries apologizing for their colonialism. This is stuff almost noone knows about... muslim people here in Europe (not everyone) believe their colonization of NA to be righteous (since Muhammad ordered them), but cry about the European colonization of NA?

> > That European slavery was in many
> > ways inhumane is taught in almost
> > every school in Europe...
> Has that resulted in any tangible,
> verifiable changes in thinking and
> behavior?

Yes... I don't see too many racists here... what I see here are climate-warriors and muslim fundamentalists and much more far-left crazies than neonazis ;D

So instead of talking about "How bad dutch colonies were" - which every kid in NLD knows; one should start talking about how bad circumcision is and how bad climate-politics is... etc...

>
> dk

Marc S schrieb am Donnerstag, 6. Juli 2023 um 18:52:56 UTC+2:
> Dan Koren schrieb am Donnerstag, 6. Juli 2023 um 08:11:38 UTC+2:
> > On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 10:39:28 PM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:
> > > Dan Koren schrieb am Donnerstag, 6. Juli 2023 um 07:32:07 UTC+2:
> > > > https://youtu.be/aM8I5Z5MYdA
> > > >
> > > > At last a bit of decency coming
> > > > out of the Netherlands. Maybe
> > > > the Brits and the French could
> > > > follow suit.
> > >
> > > Na, they shouldnt - hate this virtue signalling bullshit; just to get some more votes in.
> > > Should the Netherlands apologize like these people did to the black-americans?
> > > https://www.youtube.com/shorts/6dtYW7GYpLg
> > > Do any of the slaves still live?
> > Do any of the people killed at Auschwitz,
> > Treblinka, Sobibor, Majdanek, or Dachau
> > still live?
> Should Scholz apologize for Ausschwitz? Or should Scholz apologize for not learning anything from it, and practicing stupid Israeli-politics?
> >
> > > What do people gain from such nonsense?
> > These are symbolic gestures that show
> > others that the former colonial powers
> > have at least begun to understand they
> > committed crimes against humanity.
> It's all a farce... as if it means anything... it's just politics you idiot. It's like Herman saying "Dear Africans of the former dutch colonies I apologize for the slavery" ...
>
> The Dutch addressing these specific atrocities of the past in educational institutions is a far greater gesture than this stupid stuff, so I don't get this shit.
>
> And one should also note the fact that the colonies were not only detrimental; as I have shown you evidence already: say Hongkong or South Africa... South Africa is morally one of the most advanced countries in Africa now (there are many problems, but it's the place in africa I would choose to live in, if I had to choose a place in africa to live in), and HK is much more advanced morally than China... People seem to neglect this. And Hongkong-people wanted help from the west (especially US and also UK) wrt to China... seems as if the colonizers were not all bad ;)
>
> And how about islamic countries apologizing for their colonialism. This is stuff almost noone knows about... muslim people here in Europe (not everyone) believe their colonization of NA to be righteous (since Muhammad ordered them), but cry about the European colonization of NA?
> > > That European slavery was in many
> > > ways inhumane is taught in almost
> > > every school in Europe...
> > Has that resulted in any tangible,
> > verifiable changes in thinking and
> > behavior?
> Yes... I don't see too many racists here... what I see here are climate-warriors and muslim fundamentalists and much more far-left crazies than neonazis ;D

*The problem not so much seems to be racists these days, but anti-racists (*Israel is a racist state, USA is a racists state; but no words about how racist the Palestinians or Saudis or Chinese are... much more than the average American or Israeli I'd guess)... I believe that in some way all this criticism of racism which in essence is a good thing reached its turning point because there was just too much of it; and it all led to this self-hatred of the west in some way... "I am rich and the Africans are poor because of the colonies"-type of thinking, which is a very simplified way to view a very complex reality.

>
> So instead of talking about "How bad dutch colonies were" - which every kid in NLD knows; one should start talking about how bad circumcision is and how bad climate-politics is... etc...
>
> >
> > dk

Marc S schrieb am Donnerstag, 6. Juli 2023 um 18:40:28 UTC+2:
> Dan Koren schrieb am Donnerstag, 6. Juli 2023 um 08:07:37 UTC+2:
> > On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 10:56:28 PM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:
> > >
> > > I think you should watch "Grave of the Fireflies":
> > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vPeTSRd580
> > "Grave of the Fireflies" is one of 4 movies that reside
> > permanently on my PC. I probably saw it first before
> > you were born. The other 2 are "After Life", "Back to
> > 1942", and "Woman of the Dunes",
> That is all very nice to know, but my point was that it is distasteful to joke about Japan getting nuked again; especially in this context, maybe in another context. Because the Japanese didn't do enough to address their past crimes they deserve to get nuked again? haha... not very funny...
> > > Point being: as much as Andy has swallowed up the
> > > anti-Zionist narrative of the left, you have swallowed
> > > up the anti-Western narrative of the left.
> > Total non-sense. The colonial era and the behavior of
> > the colonial powers in the colonies they occupied are
> > very well documented. No ideological or political filters
> > are need to figure out what was going on.
> You just don't seem to get my point...
>
> It is not just well documented, but (my point) it is addressed at every possible opportunity, because of the leftist anti-racist, and anti-colonialist agenda (guess why they hate Israel so much...). If they actually wanted to fix things in Africa or say Palestine, they should maybe address the Africans and Palestinians, eh? Almost noone in Europe would defend the atrocities committed by the colonizers... Why should the Dutch King say sorry for the slavery? Explain to me Dan, what difference does this make? What does the Dutch King have to do with the slavery? It's all just virtue-signalling.... far-leftist bullshit politics
>
> Should Scholz apologize to Israel for the shoah? Scholz apologizing doesn't change nada, he should change his politics wrt Israel/Palestine - he should apologize for his stupid Israel-Politics, but not for the shoah - he should apologize (just like you Dan) for not learning enough from it.

*changes nada; sorry

>
> Is the West to blame for how fucked up the situation is in african countries? How come then, the Jews created a beautiful after being completely fucked up the whole world? Does not add up, does it? The Jews didn't go around crying and blaming the West like many of the African and Islamic countries do.
>
> The west has done very much to critically examine it's past, and others should learn from it. The west is self-destructing with all this self-hatred and self-criticism.
>
> You know what would be reasonable? If the German government gave Greece some more reparations payment; not the Dutch King apologizing for slavery... lol
>
> I am pretty much pro imperialism to further human rights ;) Fuck cultural-relativism.
>
> >
> > dk

Marc S schrieb am Donnerstag, 6. Juli 2023 um 18:40:28 UTC+2:
> Dan Koren schrieb am Donnerstag, 6. Juli 2023 um 08:07:37 UTC+2:
> > On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 10:56:28 PM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:
> > >
> > > I think you should watch "Grave of the Fireflies":
> > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vPeTSRd580
> > "Grave of the Fireflies" is one of 4 movies that reside
> > permanently on my PC. I probably saw it first before
> > you were born. The other 2 are "After Life", "Back to
> > 1942", and "Woman of the Dunes",
> That is all very nice to know, but my point was that it is distasteful to joke about Japan getting nuked again; especially in this context, maybe in another context. Because the Japanese didn't do enough to address their past crimes they deserve to get nuked again? haha... not very funny...
> > > Point being: as much as Andy has swallowed up the
> > > anti-Zionist narrative of the left, you have swallowed
> > > up the anti-Western narrative of the left.
> > Total non-sense. The colonial era and the behavior of
> > the colonial powers in the colonies they occupied are
> > very well documented. No ideological or political filters
> > are need to figure out what was going on.
> You just don't seem to get my point...
>
> It is not just well documented, but (my point) it is addressed at every possible opportunity, because of the leftist anti-racist, and anti-colonialist agenda (guess why they hate Israel so much...). If they actually wanted to fix things in Africa or say Palestine, they should maybe address the Africans and Palestinians, eh? Almost noone in Europe would defend the atrocities committed by the colonizers... Why should the Dutch King say sorry for the slavery? Explain to me Dan, what difference does this make? What does the Dutch King have to do with the slavery? It's all just virtue-signalling.... far-leftist bullshit politics
>
> Should Scholz apologize to Israel for the shoah? Scholz apologizing doesn't change nada, he should change his politics wrt Israel/Palestine - he should apologize for his stupid Israel-Politics, but not for the shoah - he should apologize (just like you Dan) for not learning enough from it.
>
> Is the West to blame for how fucked up the situation is in african countries? How come then, the Jews created a beautiful after being completely fucked up the whole world? Does not add up, does it? The Jews didn't go around crying and blaming the West like many of the African and Islamic countries do.

*How come then, the Jews built a beautiful state after being completely fucked over by the whole world. Instead of hating the West and blaming it for all eternity for the past like many of the Islamic and African nations do and the anti-racial left of today does frequently, they just built a western nation with a Jewish identity (which - Judaism - ofc also influenced the western nations in the first place); There cannot be a western nation with an islamic identity, as the islamic ideals are contrary to western and even asian ideals; you can have a democracy with a Korean identity, but I have a hard time imagining a demcoracy with an Islamic identity.

>
> The west has done very much to critically examine it's past, and others should learn from it. The west is self-destructing with all this self-hatred and self-criticism.
>
> You know what would be reasonable? If the German government gave Greece some more reparations payment; not the Dutch King apologizing for slavery... lol
>
> I am pretty much pro imperialism to further human rights ;) Fuck cultural-relativism.
>
> >
> > dk

On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 3:32:07 PM UTC+10, Dan Koren wrote:
> https://youtu.be/aM8I5Z5MYdA
>
> At last a bit of decency coming
> out of the Netherlands. Maybe
> the Brits and the French could
> follow suit.
>
> dk

The Brits abolished tslavery in the 1830s. They even sent a naval patrol off the coast of West Africa to halt any slave ships they found. Hand-wringing apologies for slavery are now an integral part of British public life,

Meanwhile, a form of slavery persisted in the Deep South USA until the 1940s. It was called sharecropping, and it was said that many of these tenant farmers, black and white, had a worse diet than the slaves had had prior to Reconstruction. They suffered appalling health and most of them died in their forties. Who is apologising for them?

Andrew Clarke
Canberra