In 1982, Leonard Bernstein conducted Elgar's "Enigma Variations" in London's Royal Festival Hall. It turned out that the BBC Symphony, which he was conducting for the first and only time, didn't take to him, nor they to him. The performance turned out to be controversial and the cause of mixed opinions, not least due to one of the slowest readings of "Nimrod" on record ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opCnRG4jbu0&t=758s

Question: was this his only performance ever of the work, or had he already conducted it in New York or elsewhere?

On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 1:36:57 PM UTC-7, Kerrison wrote:
>
> In 1982, Leonard Bernstein conducted Elgar's "Enigma Variations" in
> London's Royal Festival Hall. It turned out that the BBC Symphony,
> which he was conducting for the first and only time, didn't take to
> him, nor they to him. The performance turned out to be controversial
> and the cause of mixed opinions, not least due to one of the slowest
> readings of "Nimrod" on record ...
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opCnRG4jbu0&t=758s
>
> Question: was this his only performance ever of the work, or had he
> already conducted it in New York or elsewhere?

What do you mean by "the orchestra didn't take to him, nor they to him" ?!?
Please clarify.

https://youtu.be/18sT5D3bKnc?t=435
https://youtu.be/PSlAv0b2WRc

dk

On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 3:59:06 PM UTC-5, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 1:36:57 PM UTC-7, Kerrison wrote:
> >
> > In 1982, Leonard Bernstein conducted Elgar's "Enigma Variations" in
> > London's Royal Festival Hall. It turned out that the BBC Symphony,
> > which he was conducting for the first and only time, didn't take to
> > him, nor they to him. The performance turned out to be controversial
> > and the cause of mixed opinions, not least due to one of the slowest
> > readings of "Nimrod" on record ...
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opCnRG4jbu0&t=758s
> >
> > Question: was this his only performance ever of the work, or had he
> > already conducted it in New York or elsewhere?
> What do you mean by "the orchestra didn't take to him, nor they to him" ?!?
> Please clarify.
>
> https://youtu.be/18sT5D3bKnc?t=435
> https://youtu.be/PSlAv0b2WRc
>
> dk
He and the first trumpeter got into a dispsute over tempo (LB's was quite slow),

On Saturday, July 8, 2023 at 9:41:16 AM UTC-4, Lawrence Kart wrote:
> On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 3:59:06 PM UTC-5, Dan Koren wrote:
> > On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 1:36:57 PM UTC-7, Kerrison wrote:
> > >
> > > In 1982, Leonard Bernstein conducted Elgar's "Enigma Variations" in
> > > London's Royal Festival Hall. It turned out that the BBC Symphony,
> > > which he was conducting for the first and only time, didn't take to
> > > him, nor they to him. The performance turned out to be controversial
> > > and the cause of mixed opinions, not least due to one of the slowest
> > > readings of "Nimrod" on record ...
> > >
> > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opCnRG4jbu0&t=758s
> > >
> > > Question: was this his only performance ever of the work, or had he
> > > already conducted it in New York or elsewhere?
> > What do you mean by "the orchestra didn't take to him, nor they to him" ?!?
> > Please clarify.
> >
> > https://youtu.be/18sT5D3bKnc?t=435
> > https://youtu.be/PSlAv0b2WRc
> >
> > dk
> He and the first trumpeter got into a dispsute over tempo (LB's was quite slow),

I thought the dispute was over the sound they were getting. At least in the famous-infamous oft seen snippet. Probably what that trumpeter got pissed over was the very whiney WAY Bernstein demonstrated the sound he didn’t want from them. Certainly the players seem to resent Bernstein’s coming in and telling them how “their” music should go. In any case, I think Bernstein handles it professionally, but it does seem a tense collaboration. I can’t stomach his half tempo wallow through Nimrod (he’s not the only sinner in that regard), but there are some intriguing things about the performance even if it’s not exactly successful overall.

On Saturday, 8 July 2023 at 18:28:48 UTC+1, vhorowitz wrote:
> I thought the dispute was over the sound they were getting. At least in the famous-infamous oft seen snippet. Probably what that trumpeter got pissed over was the very whiney WAY Bernstein demonstrated the sound he didn’t want from them. Certainly the players seem to resent Bernstein’s coming in and telling them how “their” music should go. In any case, I think Bernstein handles it professionally, but it does seem a tense collaboration. I can’t stomach his half tempo wallow through Nimrod (he’s not the only sinner in that regard), but there are some intriguing things about the performance even if it’s not exactly successful overall.

I have to be forced at gunpoint to listen to Bernstein conducting anything......

Except maybe West Side Story.

On Sunday, 9 July 2023 at 03:36:30 UTC+10, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Saturday, 8 July 2023 at 18:28:48 UTC+1, vhorowitz wrote:
> > I thought the dispute was over the sound they were getting. At least in the famous-infamous oft seen snippet. Probably what that trumpeter got pissed over was the very whiney WAY Bernstein demonstrated the sound he didn’t want from them. Certainly the players seem to resent Bernstein’s coming in and telling them how “their” music should go. In any case, I think Bernstein handles it professionally, but it does seem a tense collaboration. I can’t stomach his half tempo wallow through Nimrod (he’s not the only sinner in that regard), but there are some intriguing things about the performance even if it’s not exactly successful overall.
> I have to be forced at gunpoint to listen to Bernstein conducting anything.....
>
> Except maybe West Side Story.

I wouldn't be without his NY Mahler cycle. His Harris 3 is terrific, and along with Chavez, Revueltas, he could be very very good. I find his music for On The Waterfront masterly. On the other hand I recently got his Dvorak 9, on the basis of some reviews, and found it absolutely appalling, brutal almost, no charm. A mixed bag of a conductor.

Ray Hall, Taree

"raymond....@gmail.com" wrote in message
news:1a23524e-b8be-4786-8951-d57ffb4cce88n@googlegroups.com...

On Sunday, 9 July 2023 at 03:36:30 UTC+10, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Saturday, 8 July 2023 at 18:28:48 UTC+1, vhorowitz wrote:
> > I thought the dispute was over the sound they were getting. At least in
> > the famous-infamous oft seen snippet. Probably what that trumpeter got
> > pissed over was the very whiney WAY Bernstein demonstrated the sound he
> > didn't want from them. Certainly the players seem to resent Bernstein's
> > coming in and telling them how "their" music should go. In any case, I
> > think Bernstein handles it professionally, but it does seem a tense
> > collaboration. I can't stomach his half tempo wallow through Nimrod (he's
> > not the only sinner in that regard), but there are some intriguing
> > things about the performance even if it's not exactly successful
> > overall.
> I have to be forced at gunpoint to listen to Bernstein conducting
> anything.....
>
> Except maybe West Side Story.

>I wouldn't be without his NY Mahler cycle. His Harris 3 is terrific, and
>along with Chavez, Revueltas, he could be very very good. I find his music
>for On The Waterfront masterly. On the other hand I recently got >his
>Dvorak 9, on the basis of some reviews, and found it absolutely appalling,
>brutal almost, no charm. A mixed bag of a conductor.

>Ray Hall, Taree

I certainly agree with Mr. Hall's comments (except I haven't heard the
Dvorak). I also like Bernstein's Copland recordings better than Copland's
own.

Ed Presson

On Friday, July 7, 2023 at 6:59:06 AM UTC+10, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 1:36:57 PM UTC-7, Kerrison wrote:
> >
> > In 1982, Leonard Bernstein conducted Elgar's "Enigma Variations" in
> > London's Royal Festival Hall. It turned out that the BBC Symphony,
> > which he was conducting for the first and only time, didn't take to
> > him, nor they to him. The performance turned out to be controversial
> > and the cause of mixed opinions, not least due to one of the slowest
> > readings of "Nimrod" on record ...
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opCnRG4jbu0&t=758s
> >
> > Question: was this his only performance ever of the work, or had he
> > already conducted it in New York or elsewhere?
> What do you mean by "the orchestra didn't take to him, nor they to him" ?!?
> Please clarify.
>
> https://youtu.be/18sT5D3bKnc?t=435
> https://youtu.be/PSlAv0b2WRc
>
> dk

I think there may have been some dispute about the pronunciation of the conductor's surname ...

Meanwhile, London orchestras appear to have had no problem with other American conductors - Andre Previn, Leonard Slatkin and Marin Alsop come to mind..

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

On Sunday, July 9, 2023 at 5:22:17 AM UTC+1, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> On Friday, July 7, 2023 at 6:59:06 AM UTC+10, Dan Koren wrote:
> > On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 1:36:57 PM UTC-7, Kerrison wrote:
> > >
> > > In 1982, Leonard Bernstein conducted Elgar's "Enigma Variations" in
> > > London's Royal Festival Hall. It turned out that the BBC Symphony,
> > > which he was conducting for the first and only time, didn't take to
> > > him, nor they to him. The performance turned out to be controversial
> > > and the cause of mixed opinions, not least due to one of the slowest
> > > readings of "Nimrod" on record ...
> > >
> > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opCnRG4jbu0&t=758s
> > >
> > > Question: was this his only performance ever of the work, or had he
> > > already conducted it in New York or elsewhere?
> > What do you mean by "the orchestra didn't take to him, nor they to him" ?!?
> > Please clarify.
> >
> > https://youtu.be/18sT5D3bKnc?t=435
> > https://youtu.be/PSlAv0b2WRc
> >
> > dk
> I think there may have been some dispute about the pronunciation of the conductor's surname ...
>
> Meanwhile, London orchestras appear to have had no problem with other American conductors - Andre Previn, Leonard Slatkin and Marin Alsop come to mind.
>
> Andrew Clarke
> Canberra

I slipped up when I asked if Bernstein had conducted the "Enigma Variations" in New York. I often say that YouTube these days has practically everything you want to see or hear and sure enough, it has an NYPO performance given in March 1982, a few weeks before he conducted it in London. One of the comments under the broadcast says: "As the old joke has it: C'est magnifique mais ce n'est pas Elgar." Another comment states: " Horribly vulgar, tacky, mawkish interpretation" while another writes "even worse than the BBCSO recording" with 'Nimrod' sounding "like Mahler on opioids" ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdQhdlCjlL0

Also on YouTube is a Bernstein / NYPO performance of Elgar's "Cockaigne" Overture from 1983. I fear that has some similar comments under the video but being "too slow" is not one of them. Quite the opposite in fact! ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOlHHrc49E0

Going back to a non-British performance of the "Enigma Variations," here's what I think is a first-rate performance from Yokohama, with a young Japanese maestro, Kahchun Wong, conducting the work from memory and very well too ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDcv-QCB-SE&t=94s

No adverse comments under this video!