On Tuesday, February 21, 2023 at 3:46:16 PM UTC-8, wrote:
> According to this:
>
> - Nature is changing. Today's hurricanes tend to be stronger, wetter, and less predictable than those of the last century. They hold more moisture, speed up more quickly, and stay together longer.
>
> https://news.yahoo.com/floridas-climate-exodus-already-begun-110000919.html

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/study-finds-human-caused-climate-change-a-definitive-factor-in-brutal-heat-waves

We tend to focus on the land heating up but it may be the sea that is the bigger problem

The Antarctic is in the midst of a once in a 7.5-million-year winter, as sea ice surrounding the continent declines at a "concerning" rate which could have a "major impact" on the Earth's weather systems.

A scientist from the British Antarctic Survey (BAS) has told Yahoo News that such a steep deterioration could create a "feedback loop" - causing ocean temperatures to therefore get hotter and hotter.

Researchers have called the situation in the Antarctic Ocean a "five-sigma" event - a significant deviation from normal conditions. "As Antarctic sea ice melts, you're taking away a reflective surface and replacing it with kind of a dark surface - the ocean's surface - which absorbs more heat. This is what we call the albedo feedback effect, so as you melt the ice the ocean is exposed, it becomes warmer, it absorbs more heat from the sun and then that heats up the Earth more, which then means that it's harder for the ice to form."

KEY LARGO, Florida (Reuters) - The surface ocean temperature in and around the Florida Keys soared to hot tub levels of 38° this week, amid recent warnings from global weather monitors about the dangerous impact of warming waters on ecosystems and extreme weather events. Normal water temperatures for this time of year should be between 23C and 31C.

On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 2:01:09 AM UTC-7, Andy Evans wrote:
> We tend to focus on the land heating up but it may be the sea that is the bigger problem
>
> The Antarctic is in the midst of a once in a 7.5-million-year winter, as sea ice surrounding the continent declines at a "concerning" rate which could have a "major impact" on the Earth's weather systems.
>
> A scientist from the British Antarctic Survey (BAS) has told Yahoo News that such a steep deterioration could create a "feedback loop" - causing ocean temperatures to therefore get hotter and hotter.
>
> Researchers have called the situation in the Antarctic Ocean a "five-sigma" event - a significant deviation from normal conditions. "As Antarctic sea ice melts, you're taking away a reflective surface and replacing it with kind of a dark surface - the ocean's surface - which absorbs more heat. This is what we call the albedo feedback effect, so as you melt the ice the ocean is exposed, it becomes warmer, it absorbs more heat from the sun and then that heats up the Earth more, which then means that it's harder for the ice to form."
>
> KEY LARGO, Florida (Reuters) - The surface ocean temperature in and around the Florida Keys soared to hot tub levels of 38° this week, amid recent warnings from global weather monitors about the dangerous impact of warming waters on ecosystems and extreme weather events. Normal water temperatures for this time of year should be between 23C and 31C.

FL is not the place to be:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcQ9sSa5Uhw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySfJt5MkkQw

On 2023-07-26 09:01:06 +0000, Andy Evans said:

> We tend to focus on the land heating up but it may be the sea that is
> the bigger problem
>
> The Antarctic is in the midst of a once in a 7.5-million-year winter,
> as sea ice surrounding the continent declines at a "concerning" rate
> which could have a "major impact" on the Earth's weather systems.
>
> A scientist from the British Antarctic Survey (BAS) has told Yahoo News
> that such a steep deterioration could create a "feedback loop" -
> causing ocean temperatures to therefore get hotter and hotter.
>
> Researchers have called the situation in the Antarctic Ocean a
> "five-sigma" event - a significant deviation from normal conditions.
> "As Antarctic sea ice melts, you're taking away a reflective surface
> and replacing it with kind of a dark surface - the ocean's surface -
> which absorbs more heat. This is what we call the albedo feedback
> effect, so as you melt the ice the ocean is exposed, it becomes warmer,
> it absorbs more heat from the sun and then that heats up the Earth
> more, which then means that it's harder for the ice to form."
>
> KEY LARGO, Florida (Reuters) - The surface ocean temperature in and
> around the Florida Keys soared to hot tub levels of 38° this week, amid
> recent warnings from global weather monitors about the dangerous impact
> of warming waters on ecosystems and extreme weather events. Normal
> water temperatures for this time of year should be between 23C and 31C.

It's hard to point to events and just say this is caused by global
warming. However, I'm happy that someone has finally brought up the
Earth's albedo, and what mankind has been doing for centuries to make
it different. Black paved parking lots and roads, black solar panels
on almost every house and the replacement of green CO2 absorbing flora
with stark cityscapes mean the Earth is just absorbing more heat,
period.

-Owen

There is just no way of getting around these events and signals.
Things are getting bad real fast, and the point of no return is going to come in a couple of years - not decades.
those of us on this planet aren't suffienctly affluent (that is most o the world's population) are going to get in huge trouble soon.
those who are really need to buy some more 75 cd boxes.

On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 2:57:55 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 2:01:09 AM UTC-7, Andy Evans wrote:
> > We tend to focus on the land heating up but it may be the sea that is the bigger problem
> >
> > The Antarctic is in the midst of a once in a 7.5-million-year winter, as sea ice surrounding the continent declines at a "concerning" rate which could have a "major impact" on the Earth's weather systems.
> >
> > A scientist from the British Antarctic Survey (BAS) has told Yahoo News that such a steep deterioration could create a "feedback loop" - causing ocean temperatures to therefore get hotter and hotter.
> >
> > Researchers have called the situation in the Antarctic Ocean a "five-sigma" event - a significant deviation from normal conditions. "As Antarctic sea ice melts, you're taking away a reflective surface and replacing it with kind of a dark surface - the ocean's surface - which absorbs more heat. This is what we call the albedo feedback effect, so as you melt the ice the ocean is exposed, it becomes warmer, it absorbs more heat from the sun and then that heats up the Earth more, which then means that it's harder for the ice to form."
> >
> > KEY LARGO, Florida (Reuters) - The surface ocean temperature in and around the Florida Keys soared to hot tub levels of 38° this week, amid recent warnings from global weather monitors about the dangerous impact of warming waters on ecosystems and extreme weather events. Normal water temperatures for this time of year should be between 23C and 31C.
> FL is not the place to be:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcQ9sSa5Uhw
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySfJt5MkkQw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWn1n-NMzOI

On Wednesday, 26 July 2023 at 17:33:16 UTC+1, Herman wrote:
> There is just no way of getting around these events and signals.
> Things are getting bad real fast, and the point of no return is going to come in a couple of years - not decades.
> those of us on this planet aren't sufficiently affluent (that is most o the world's population) are going to get in huge trouble soon.

All true alas. In 5 years time we'll be in another reality. And politicians will still refuse to fix it.

On 7/26/2023 4:45 PM, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Wednesday, 26 July 2023 at 17:33:16 UTC+1, Herman wrote:
>> There is just no way of getting around these events and signals.
>> Things are getting bad real fast, and the point of no return is going to come in a couple of years - not decades.
>> those of us on this planet aren't sufficiently affluent (that is most o the world's population) are going to get in huge trouble soon.
>
> All true alas. In 5 years time we'll be in another reality. And politicians will still refuse to fix it.

In 5 years (we should all still be here), we will know whether either of your above forecasts is correct. I wonder if there is any evidence that rich people are abandoning the coasts. I imagine property can be acquired quite cheaply in, say, the Maldives.

On Thursday, 27 July 2023 at 00:01:12 UTC+10, Owen Hartnett wrote:
> On 2023-07-26 09:01:06 +0000, Andy Evans said:
>
> > We tend to focus on the land heating up but it may be the sea that is
> > the bigger problem
> >
> > The Antarctic is in the midst of a once in a 7.5-million-year winter,
> > as sea ice surrounding the continent declines at a "concerning" rate
> > which could have a "major impact" on the Earth's weather systems.
> >
> > A scientist from the British Antarctic Survey (BAS) has told Yahoo News
> > that such a steep deterioration could create a "feedback loop" -
> > causing ocean temperatures to therefore get hotter and hotter.
> >
> > Researchers have called the situation in the Antarctic Ocean a
> > "five-sigma" event - a significant deviation from normal conditions.
> > "As Antarctic sea ice melts, you're taking away a reflective surface
> > and replacing it with kind of a dark surface - the ocean's surface -
> > which absorbs more heat. This is what we call the albedo feedback
> > effect, so as you melt the ice the ocean is exposed, it becomes warmer,
> > it absorbs more heat from the sun and then that heats up the Earth
> > more, which then means that it's harder for the ice to form."
> >
> > KEY LARGO, Florida (Reuters) - The surface ocean temperature in and
> > around the Florida Keys soared to hot tub levels of 38° this week, amid
> > recent warnings from global weather monitors about the dangerous impact
> > of warming waters on ecosystems and extreme weather events. Normal
> > water temperatures for this time of year should be between 23C and 31C.
> It's hard to point to events and just say this is caused by global
> warming. However, I'm happy that someone has finally brought up the
> Earth's albedo, and what mankind has been doing for centuries to make
> it different. Black paved parking lots and roads, black solar panels
> on almost every house and the replacement of green CO2 absorbing flora
> with stark cityscapes mean the Earth is just absorbing more heat,
> period.
>
> -Owen

Agree, but remember that solar panels are designed to absorb heat energy, else there would be no point. Solar energy farms might hinder if only by taking up space where foliage could be. Also, this problem has mostly been caused by actions taken or (not taken) in the last part of the last century, up to the present, where a wilful procrastination is the order of the day (lets keep kicking the can down the street for the next generation to solve)..

Ray Hall, Taree

On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 4:22:53 PM UTC-7, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, 27 July 2023 at 00:01:12 UTC+10, Owen Hartnett wrote:
> > On 2023-07-26 09:01:06 +0000, Andy Evans said:
> >
> > > We tend to focus on the land heating up but it may be the sea that is
> > > the bigger problem
> > >
> > > The Antarctic is in the midst of a once in a 7.5-million-year winter,
> > > as sea ice surrounding the continent declines at a "concerning" rate
> > > which could have a "major impact" on the Earth's weather systems.
> > >
> > > A scientist from the British Antarctic Survey (BAS) has told Yahoo News
> > > that such a steep deterioration could create a "feedback loop" -
> > > causing ocean temperatures to therefore get hotter and hotter.
> > >
> > > Researchers have called the situation in the Antarctic Ocean a
> > > "five-sigma" event - a significant deviation from normal conditions.
> > > "As Antarctic sea ice melts, you're taking away a reflective surface
> > > and replacing it with kind of a dark surface - the ocean's surface -
> > > which absorbs more heat. This is what we call the albedo feedback
> > > effect, so as you melt the ice the ocean is exposed, it becomes warmer,
> > > it absorbs more heat from the sun and then that heats up the Earth
> > > more, which then means that it's harder for the ice to form."
> > >
> > > KEY LARGO, Florida (Reuters) - The surface ocean temperature in and
> > > around the Florida Keys soared to hot tub levels of 38° this week, amid
> > > recent warnings from global weather monitors about the dangerous impact
> > > of warming waters on ecosystems and extreme weather events. Normal
> > > water temperatures for this time of year should be between 23C and 31C.
> > It's hard to point to events and just say this is caused by global
> > warming. However, I'm happy that someone has finally brought up the
> > Earth's albedo, and what mankind has been doing for centuries to make
> > it different. Black paved parking lots and roads, black solar panels
> > on almost every house and the replacement of green CO2 absorbing flora
> > with stark cityscapes mean the Earth is just absorbing more heat,
> > period.
> >
> > -Owen
> Agree, but remember that solar panels are designed to absorb heat energy, else there would be no point. Solar energy farms might hinder if only by taking up space where foliage could be. Also, this problem has mostly been caused by actions taken or (not taken) in the last part of the last century, up to the present, where a wilful procrastination is the order of the day (lets keep kicking the can down the street for the next generation to solve).
>
> Ray Hall, Taree

- If mankind had wished for what is right, they might have had it long ago.

William Hazlitt

On Thursday, 27 July 2023 at 01:00:26 UTC+1, gggg gggg wrote:

> - If mankind had wished for what is right, they might have had it long ago.
>
> William Hazlitt

How true.....

Mankind's blessing, and at the same time curse, was being much more intelligent than the other animals.

Not something to boast about in the years to come.......

On Thursday, July 27, 2023 at 1:40:03 AM UTC-7, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Thursday, 27 July 2023 at 01:00:26 UTC+1, gggg gggg wrote:
>
> > - If mankind had wished for what is right, they might have had it long ago.
> >
> > William Hazlitt
> How true.....
>
> Mankind's blessing, and at the same time curse, was being much more intelligent than the other animals.
>
> Not something to boast about in the years to come.......

Does this apply to the human brain?:

- There is no useful thing which may not be turned to an injurious purpose.

Ovid

On Thursday, 27 July 2023 at 09:53:42 UTC+1, gggg gggg wrote:

> Does this apply to the human brain?:
>
> - There is no useful thing which may not be turned to an injurious purpose.
>
> Ovid

You certainly have a knack for good quotes......

On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 10:45:05 PM UTC+2, Andy Evans wrote:
>
>
> All true alas. In 5 years time we'll be in another reality. And politicians will still refuse to fix it.

Another fun one is 'Scientists predict collapse of Atlantic Ocean current', the socalled AMOC breakdown, which will cause a climate armageddon, so I'm guessing Frank is reaching for more popcorn.

'Fixing it' is hard enough, but most politicians refuse to even acknowledge something is happening. They prefer to talk about bathrooms.

On Thursday, July 27, 2023 at 2:27:08 AM UTC-7, Herman wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 10:45:05 PM UTC+2, Andy Evans wrote:
> >
> >
> > All true alas. In 5 years time we'll be in another reality. And politicians will still refuse to fix it.
> Another fun one is 'Scientists predict collapse of Atlantic Ocean current', the socalled AMOC breakdown, which will cause a climate armageddon, so I'm guessing Frank is reaching for more popcorn.
>
> 'Fixing it' is hard enough, but most politicians refuse to even acknowledge something is happening. They prefer to talk about bathrooms.

Concerning politicians, have you ever read Lampedusa's 1958 novel "The Leopard"?:

- What would the Senate do with me, an inexperienced legislator who lacks the faculty of self-deception, essential requisite for anyone wanting to guide others …Now you need young men, bright young men, with minds asking ‘how’ rather than ‘why,’ and who are good at masking, at blending, I should say, their personal interests with vague public ideals.

On Thursday, 27 July 2023 at 10:35:45 UTC+1, gggg gggg wrote:

> Concerning politicians, have you ever read Lampedusa's 1958 novel "The Leopard"?:
>
> - What would the Senate do with me, an inexperienced legislator who lacks the faculty of self-deception, essential requisite for anyone wanting to guide others …Now you need young men, bright young men, with minds asking ‘how’ rather than ‘why,’ and who are good at masking, at blending, I should say, their personal interests with vague public ideals.

That's wonderfully cynical and so well expressed.

On Thursday, July 27, 2023 at 2:49:51 AM UTC-7, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Thursday, 27 July 2023 at 10:35:45 UTC+1, gggg gggg wrote:
>
> > Concerning politicians, have you ever read Lampedusa's 1958 novel "The Leopard"?:
> >
> > - What would the Senate do with me, an inexperienced legislator who lacks the faculty of self-deception, essential requisite for anyone wanting to guide others …Now you need young men, bright young men, with minds asking ‘how’ rather than ‘why,’ and who are good at masking, at blending, I should say, their personal interests with vague public ideals.
> That's wonderfully cynical and so well expressed.

Am I the only one who feels that it echoes this?:

– Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they COULD that they didn’t stop to think if they SHOULD.

“Jurassic Park” (1993)

On Thursday, July 27, 2023 at 2:49:51 AM UTC-7, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Thursday, 27 July 2023 at 10:35:45 UTC+1, gggg gggg wrote:
>
> > Concerning politicians, have you ever read Lampedusa's 1958 novel "The Leopard"?:
> >
> > - What would the Senate do with me, an inexperienced legislator who lacks the faculty of self-deception, essential requisite for anyone wanting to guide others …Now you need young men, bright young men, with minds asking ‘how’ rather than ‘why,’ and who are good at masking, at blending, I should say, their personal interests with vague public ideals.
> That's wonderfully cynical and so well expressed.

Lampedusa was Sicilian.

Does this Sicilian quote apply to politicians and leaders?:

- Pesci fet d’a testa.
• Translation: The fish stinks from the head.
• Meaning: Corruption starts at the top

On Thursday, July 27, 2023 at 2:49:51 AM UTC-7, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Thursday, 27 July 2023 at 10:35:45 UTC+1, gggg gggg wrote:
>
> > Concerning politicians, have you ever read Lampedusa's 1958 novel "The Leopard"?:
> >
> > - What would the Senate do with me, an inexperienced legislator who lacks the faculty of self-deception, essential requisite for anyone wanting to guide others …Now you need young men, bright young men, with minds asking ‘how’ rather than ‘why,’ and who are good at masking, at blending, I should say, their personal interests with vague public ideals.
> That's wonderfully cynical and so well expressed.

What about this quote?:

- Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose. (The more things change [climate change?], the more they stay the same [politicians?].

Jean-Baptiste Alphonse Karr (1849)

On 2023-07-26 23:22:50 +0000, raymond....@gmail.com said:

> On Thursday, 27 July 2023 at 00:01:12 UTC+10, Owen Hartnett wrote:
>> On 2023-07-26 09:01:06 +0000, Andy Evans said:>> > We tend to focus on
>> the land heating up but it may be the sea that is> > the bigger
>> problem> >> > The Antarctic is in the midst of a once in a
>> 7.5-million-year winter,> > as sea ice surrounding the continent
>> declines at a "concerning" rate> > which could have a "major impact" on
>> the Earth's weather systems.> >> > A scientist from the British
>> Antarctic Survey (BAS) has told Yahoo News> > that such a steep
>> deterioration could create a "feedback loop" -> > causing ocean
>> temperatures to therefore get hotter and hotter.> >> > Researchers have
>> called the situation in the Antarctic Ocean a> > "five-sigma" event - a
>> significant deviation from normal conditions.> > "As Antarctic sea ice
>> melts, you're taking away a reflective surface> > and replacing it with
>> kind of a dark surface - the ocean's surface -> > which absorbs more
>> heat. This is what we call the albedo feedback> > effect, so as you
>> melt the ice the ocean is exposed, it becomes warmer,> > it absorbs
>> more heat from the sun and then that heats up the Earth> > more, which
>> then means that it's harder for the ice to form."> >> > KEY LARGO,
>> Florida (Reuters) - The surface ocean temperature in and> > around the
>> Florida Keys soared to hot tub levels of 38° this week, amid> > recent
>> warnings from global weather monitors about the dangerous impact> > of
>> warming waters on ecosystems and extreme weather events. Normal> >
>> water temperatures for this time of year should be between 23C and 31C.
>> It's hard to point to events and just say this is caused by global>
>> warming. However, I'm happy that someone has finally brought up the>
>> Earth's albedo, and what mankind has been doing for centuries to make>
>> it different. Black paved parking lots and roads, black solar panels>
>> on almost every house and the replacement of green CO2 absorbing flora>
>> with stark cityscapes mean the Earth is just absorbing more heat,>
>> period.>> -Owen
>
> Agree, but remember that solar panels are designed to absorb heat
> energy, else there would be no point. Solar energy farms might hinder
> if only by taking up space where foliage could be. Also, this problem
> has mostly been caused by actions taken or (not taken) in the last part
> of the last century, up to the present, where a wilful procrastination
> is the order of the day (lets keep kicking the can down the street for
> the next generation to solve).
>
> Ray Hall, Taree

Some solar panels are designed to absorb heat energy, others rely on
photovoltaic action to produce electricity. Nevertheless, solar panels
are at best 32% efficient, so all this additional heat energy
ultimately stays on Earth, instead of being reflected back to space. In
a planetary climate system motivated by heat, terraforming that planet
will undoubtedly change its nature.

-Owen

On Thursday, 27 July 2023 at 17:23:39 UTC+1, Owen Hartnett wrote:
> Some solar panels are designed to absorb heat energy, others rely on
> photovoltaic action to produce electricity. Nevertheless, solar panels
> are at best 32% efficient, so all this additional heat energy
> ultimately stays on Earth, instead of being reflected back to space. In
> a planetary climate system motivated by heat, terraforming that planet
> will undoubtedly change its nature.
>
> -Owen

If only God had made trees white and reflective.......

On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 1:45:05 PM UTC-7, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Wednesday, 26 July 2023 at 17:33:16 UTC+1, Herman wrote:
> > There is just no way of getting around these events and signals.
> > Things are getting bad real fast, and the point of no return is going to come in a couple of years - not decades.
> > those of us on this planet aren't sufficiently affluent (that is most o the world's population) are going to get in huge trouble soon.
>
> All true alas. In 5 years time we'll be in another reality. And politicians will still refuse to fix it.

According to this 2023 article:

- It’s as if the human race has received a terminal medical diagnosis and knows there is a cure, but has consciously decided not to save itself. (Prof Lesley Hughes)

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jul/25/northern-hemisphere-heatwaves-europe-greece-italy-wildfires-extreme-weather-climate-experts

On Friday, 28 July 2023 at 02:23:39 UTC+10, Owen Hartnett wrote:
> On 2023-07-26 23:22:50 +0000, raymond....gmail.com said:
>
> > On Thursday, 27 July 2023 at 00:01:12 UTC+10, Owen Hartnett wrote:
> >> On 2023-07-26 09:01:06 +0000, Andy Evans said:>> > We tend to focus on
> >> the land heating up but it may be the sea that is> > the bigger
> >> problem> >> > The Antarctic is in the midst of a once in a
> >> 7.5-million-year winter,> > as sea ice surrounding the continent
> >> declines at a "concerning" rate> > which could have a "major impact" on
> >> the Earth's weather systems.> >> > A scientist from the British
> >> Antarctic Survey (BAS) has told Yahoo News> > that such a steep
> >> deterioration could create a "feedback loop" -> > causing ocean
> >> temperatures to therefore get hotter and hotter.> >> > Researchers have
> >> called the situation in the Antarctic Ocean a> > "five-sigma" event - a
> >> significant deviation from normal conditions.> > "As Antarctic sea ice
> >> melts, you're taking away a reflective surface> > and replacing it with
> >> kind of a dark surface - the ocean's surface -> > which absorbs more
> >> heat. This is what we call the albedo feedback> > effect, so as you
> >> melt the ice the ocean is exposed, it becomes warmer,> > it absorbs
> >> more heat from the sun and then that heats up the Earth> > more, which
> >> then means that it's harder for the ice to form."> >> > KEY LARGO,
> >> Florida (Reuters) - The surface ocean temperature in and> > around the
> >> Florida Keys soared to hot tub levels of 38° this week, amid> > recent
> >> warnings from global weather monitors about the dangerous impact> > of
> >> warming waters on ecosystems and extreme weather events. Normal> >
> >> water temperatures for this time of year should be between 23C and 31C..
> >> It's hard to point to events and just say this is caused by global>
> >> warming. However, I'm happy that someone has finally brought up the>
> >> Earth's albedo, and what mankind has been doing for centuries to make>
> >> it different. Black paved parking lots and roads, black solar panels>
> >> on almost every house and the replacement of green CO2 absorbing flora>
> >> with stark cityscapes mean the Earth is just absorbing more heat,>
> >> period.>> -Owen
> >
> > Agree, but remember that solar panels are designed to absorb heat
> > energy, else there would be no point. Solar energy farms might hinder
> > if only by taking up space where foliage could be. Also, this problem
> > has mostly been caused by actions taken or (not taken) in the last part
> > of the last century, up to the present, where a wilful procrastination
> > is the order of the day (lets keep kicking the can down the street for
> > the next generation to solve).
> >
> > Ray Hall, Taree
> Some solar panels are designed to absorb heat energy, others rely on
> photovoltaic action to produce electricity. Nevertheless, solar panels
> are at best 32% efficient, so all this additional heat energy
> ultimately stays on Earth, instead of being reflected back to space. In
> a planetary climate system motivated by heat, terraforming that planet
> will undoubtedly change its nature.
>
> -Owen

I should have said, instead of 'absorbing heat', absorption of light, and which via photovoltaic action produces electrical energy. It is light (photons) that can or not get reflected, depending upon how good a 'black body' an object is. An ideal black body being one that does not reflect any light at all (a black hole is a 99.99% ideal black body, the sun a not so ideal black body).

In any case, energy produced by solar cells is clearly better for the planet than energy produced by fossil fuels with its emission of CO2. The question is, does the manufacture and production of solar cells involve 'bad' energy which offsets some of the advantages of solar cells, and does the space occupied by large solar farms also offset the concommittant loss of areas for trees and foliage?

Public transport is part of an overall answer to 'bad' energy use, and helping the climate, notwithstanding the clear fact that hydrogen fueled cars, for personal use, are still in the future for most of us. Battery driven cars are old hat even now, and are an interim measure. The Toyota Mirai and the Hyundai Nexo are two such H2 fueled vehicles now available, with refueling that takes minutes, and which also have greater range. Production of the greater supplies of hydrogen required is the next step, aided by more advanced designs of next generation (higher temperature) nuclear reactors.

Ray Hall, Taree

On Friday, 28 July 2023 at 02:48:43 UTC+1, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
> Public transport is part of an overall answer to 'bad' energy use, and helping the climate, notwithstanding the clear fact that hydrogen fueled cars, for personal use, are still in the future for most of us. Battery driven cars are old hat even now, and are an interim measure. The Toyota Mirai and the Hyundai Nexo are two such H2 fueled vehicles now available, with refueling that takes minutes, and which also have greater range. Production of the greater supplies of hydrogen required is the next step, aided by more advanced designs of next generation (higher temperature) nuclear reactors.
>
> Ray Hall, Taree

There are solutions, and we will have to invest heavily in them.

The big problem is that there will still be a huge amount of oil production happening. Neither Russia nor Saudi Arabia nor the USA are going to just stop selling and using oil, and the same for the other oil nations. And less developed countries with no nuclear power or battery/hydrogen vehicles are going to buy it. In fact the developed world is not likely to let go of fossil fuels either. The whole world needs viable alternatives within 5 years and we are absolutely nowhere near ready for that, in fact it's just a dream.

On Friday, 28 July 2023 at 19:12:40 UTC+10, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Friday, 28 July 2023 at 02:48:43 UTC+1, raymond....gmail.com wrote:
> > Public transport is part of an overall answer to 'bad' energy use, and helping the climate, notwithstanding the clear fact that hydrogen fueled cars, for personal use, are still in the future for most of us. Battery driven cars are old hat even now, and are an interim measure. The Toyota Mirai and the Hyundai Nexo are two such H2 fueled vehicles now available, with refueling that takes minutes, and which also have greater range. Production of the greater supplies of hydrogen required is the next step, aided by more advanced designs of next generation (higher temperature) nuclear reactors.
> >
> > Ray Hall, Taree
> There are solutions, and we will have to invest heavily in them.
>
> The big problem is that there will still be a huge amount of oil production happening. Neither Russia nor Saudi Arabia nor the USA are going to just stop selling and using oil, and the same for the other oil nations. And less developed countries with no nuclear power or battery/hydrogen vehicles are going to buy it. In fact the developed world is not likely to let go of fossil fuels either. The whole world needs viable alternatives within 5 years and we are absolutely nowhere near ready for that, in fact it's just a dream.

No amount of money will help. It is too late. Only drastic lifestyle changes will, aided by willing politicians. All we can do now is adapt to climate change. Sad but this is the reality.

Ray Hall, Taree