On Tue, 25 Jul 2023, Frank Berger wrote:

> A person who is not nice to me is not a nice person. Period.

Thanks for the clarification.
--
Al Eisner

On Tuesday, July 25, 2023 at 11:53:10 PM UTC+2, Frank Berger wrote:
> ........
> I am not a child, nor a subject of your quackery.

>> A person who is not nice to me is not a nice person. Period.

However, the 'not nice to me = not nice person' is something only very young children say.
Grownups are aware the world is a little more complex than that.

Incidentally AE's comment about your always needing to have the last word is 100 percent accurate.
This has been the case for many years, spawning the term 'Bergerizing a topic', which is exactly what happened here: look at the topic...

On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 12:10:25 PM UTC-4, Frank Berger wrote:
> On 7/23/2023 9:12 AM, Chris J. wrote:
> > Here is another one:
> > Record date: 29 juillet 2016 / Publish date: 24 mars 2023
> > Gábor Takács-Nagy direction / VERBIER FESTIVAL CHAMBER ORCHESTRA
> > On Deutsche Grammophon
> >
> > "No one needs another Beethoven Symphonic Cycle. There are close to two
> > hundred of them in the catalogue already. Our decision to create one with
> > Gábor and the VFCO only arrived after he had conducted five of the
> > symphonies in concert. We simply could not ignore the fact that he had
> > something powerful to say [....]"
> >
> > https://www.colinscolumn.com/released-today-verbier-festival-gold-
> > presents-an-epic-honest-multi-decade-voyage-through-the-symphonies-with-
> > quartet-legend-gabor-takacs-nagy-at-the-helm/
> >
> > You can hear fragments here:
> >
> > https://www.verbierfestival.com/stream/verbier-festival-gold-the-
> > symphonies-a-beethoven-journey/
> >
> > korentube:
> >
> > No.3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofVpUrBDOJQ
> >
> > No.9: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCt-ui78iIs
> >
> >
> > Chris
> In graduate school I learned that there is virtually no such thing as "needs." There are only "wants." Even things that we could agree are really needs, like food,l water, air are only "needed" in order to stay alive. So the question, "How many Beethoven symphony cycles do we need" is really nonsensical. If the producers think they can make a profit by recording a new cycle it will be produced. YOU (or I) may think its unnecessary or a waster of resources, but if enough people buy it, our opinion is irrelevant.

Can’t you see that the original poster didn’t use the word “need” in the literal sense. Your ensuing debate is all based on this simple misunderstanding. It’s as if you use any opportunity to display your graduate school wisdom. When you go into this type of lecture, I end up wondering how much of your knowledge is just borrowed from others, and how much is genuinely digested by yourself.

On 7/26/2023 12:11 AM, Herman wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 25, 2023 at 11:53:10 PM UTC+2, Frank Berger wrote:
>> ........
>> I am not a child, nor a subject of your quackery.
>
>>> A person who is not nice to me is not a nice person. Period.
>
> However, the 'not nice to me = not nice person' is something only very young children say.
> Grownups are aware the world is a little more complex than that.
>
> Incidentally AE's comment about your always needing to have the last word is 100 percent accurate.
> This has been the case for many years, spawning the term 'Bergerizing a topic', which is exactly what happened here: look at the topic...
>
> b
It was you who coined the term "Bergerizing" a topic. Don't pretend it's a commonly used term found in in a textbook.

In fact, I have zero interest in having the last word. If I think I have something useful to say, I will say it. If others don't like what I say, tough. The typical scenario is someone posts something that I disagree with, in part or in total. I say so. Then the personal attacks start. You just have to look at recent threads to see that is true. Like I have to have last word, like I'm using someone else's talking points, I act like a child, etc. The comments just reveal that you have nothing to say. How you all can justify attacking my personality and character because is beyond me. Actually, it's not. It's what many people do when they've run out arguments or can't defend their position with facts, etc. If anyone thinks I am hurt be these attacks, I'm not. The problem is yours, not mine.

On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 11:12:30 PM UTC+10, Chris J. wrote:
> Here is another one:
> Record date: 29 juillet 2016 / Publish date: 24 mars 2023
> Gábor Takács-Nagy direction / VERBIER FESTIVAL CHAMBER ORCHESTRA
> On Deutsche Grammophon
>
> "No one needs another Beethoven Symphonic Cycle. There are close to two
> hundred of them in the catalogue already. Our decision to create one with
> Gábor and the VFCO only arrived after he had conducted five of the
> symphonies in concert. We simply could not ignore the fact that he had
> something powerful to say [....]"
>
> https://www.colinscolumn.com/released-today-verbier-festival-gold-
> presents-an-epic-honest-multi-decade-voyage-through-the-symphonies-with-
> quartet-legend-gabor-takacs-nagy-at-the-helm/
>
> You can hear fragments here:
>
> https://www.verbierfestival.com/stream/verbier-festival-gold-the-
> symphonies-a-beethoven-journey/
>
> korentube:
>
> No.3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofVpUrBDOJQ
>
> No.9: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCt-ui78iIs
>
>
> Chris

When people stop making new recordings of the Beethoven symphonies, it will be a sign that the market for classical music is dying. The scores don't change, but we do.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

On 7/26/2023 10:51 AM, JohnGavin wrote:
> On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 12:10:25 PM UTC-4, Frank Berger wrote:
>> On 7/23/2023 9:12 AM, Chris J. wrote:
>>> Here is another one:
>>> Record date: 29 juillet 2016 / Publish date: 24 mars 2023
>>> Gábor Takács-Nagy direction / VERBIER FESTIVAL CHAMBER ORCHESTRA
>>> On Deutsche Grammophon
>>>
>>> "No one needs another Beethoven Symphonic Cycle. There are close to two
>>> hundred of them in the catalogue already. Our decision to create one with
>>> Gábor and the VFCO only arrived after he had conducted five of the
>>> symphonies in concert. We simply could not ignore the fact that he had
>>> something powerful to say [....]"
>>>
>>> https://www.colinscolumn.com/released-today-verbier-festival-gold-
>>> presents-an-epic-honest-multi-decade-voyage-through-the-symphonies-with-
>>> quartet-legend-gabor-takacs-nagy-at-the-helm/
>>>
>>> You can hear fragments here:
>>>
>>> https://www.verbierfestival.com/stream/verbier-festival-gold-the-
>>> symphonies-a-beethoven-journey/
>>>
>>> korentube:
>>>
>>> No.3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofVpUrBDOJQ
>>>
>>> No.9: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCt-ui78iIs
>>>
>>>
>>> Chris
>> In graduate school I learned that there is virtually no such thing as "needs." There are only "wants." Even things that we could agree are really needs, like food,l water, air are only "needed" in order to stay alive. So the question, "How many Beethoven symphony cycles do we need" is really nonsensical. If the producers think they can make a profit by recording a new cycle it will be produced. YOU (or I) may think its unnecessary or a waster of resources, but if enough people buy it, our opinion is irrelevant.
>
> Can’t you see that the original poster didn’t use the word “need” in the literal sense. Your ensuing debate is all based on this simple misunderstanding. It’s as if you use any opportunity to >display your graduate school wisdom. When you go into this type of lecture, I end up wondering how much of your knowledge is just borrowed from others, and how much is genuinely digested by >yourself.

I made my point and I'm comfortable with it. You could have remained silent, but chose to get personal. I understand that the word "need" is used non-rigorously. As in all sloppy use of language, it makes communication more difficult. If you think about it, you don't think the question, "'How many Beethoven symphonic cycles to we need?" is a meaningless question? Precisely because the word "need" means different things to different people.

Eagerly waiting the next personal attack.

On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 9:02:01 AM UTC-7, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 11:12:30 PM UTC+10, Chris J. wrote:
> > Here is another one:
> > Record date: 29 juillet 2016 / Publish date: 24 mars 2023
> > Gábor Takács-Nagy direction / VERBIER FESTIVAL CHAMBER ORCHESTRA
> > On Deutsche Grammophon
> >
> > "No one needs another Beethoven Symphonic Cycle. There are close to two
> > hundred of them in the catalogue already. Our decision to create one with
> > Gábor and the VFCO only arrived after he had conducted five of the
> > symphonies in concert. We simply could not ignore the fact that he had
> > something powerful to say [....]"
> >
> > https://www.colinscolumn.com/released-today-verbier-festival-gold-
> > presents-an-epic-honest-multi-decade-voyage-through-the-symphonies-with-
> > quartet-legend-gabor-takacs-nagy-at-the-helm/
> >
> > You can hear fragments here:
> >
> > https://www.verbierfestival.com/stream/verbier-festival-gold-the-
> > symphonies-a-beethoven-journey/
> >
> > korentube:
> >
> > No.3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofVpUrBDOJQ
> >
> > No.9: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCt-ui78iIs
> >
> >
> > Chris
> When people stop making new recordings of the Beethoven symphonies, it will be a sign that the market for classical music is dying. The scores don't change, but we do.
>
> Andrew Clarke
> Canberra

- THERE IS NOTHING LIKE RETURNING TO A PLACE THAT REMAINS UNCHANGED TO FIND THE WAYS IN WHICH YOU YOURSELF HAVE ALTERED.

Mandela

On Wednesday, 26 July 2023 at 05:11:47 UTC+1, Herman wrote:

> Incidentally AE's comment about your always needing to have the last word is 100 percent accurate.
> This has been the case for many years, spawning the term 'Bergerizing a topic', which is exactly what happened here: look at the topic...

I like the term "Bergerizing..." ......it has a catchy ring to it.

On 7/26/2023 4:50 PM, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Wednesday, 26 July 2023 at 05:11:47 UTC+1, Herman wrote:
>
>> Incidentally AE's comment about your always needing to have the last word is 100 percent accurate.
>> This has been the case for many years, spawning the term 'Bergerizing a topic', which is exactly what happened here: look at the topic...
>
> I like the term "Bergerizing..." ......it has a catchy ring to it.

I already labeled you hit-and-run Andy. Much more catchy, and more meaningful, in that I do not value having the last word so
Bergerizing is meaningless and baseless, but since you are constantly making vague, non-specific charges against anyone or anything you don't like and refuse to materially engage, so "hit-and-run Andy" fits perfectly.

On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 5:54:39 PM UTC+2, Frank Berger wrote:
>
> In fact, I have zero interest in having the last word.

On Wednesday, 26 July 2023 at 16:54:39 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:

> In fact, I have zero interest in having the last word. If I think I have something useful to say, I will say it. If others don't like what I say, tough. The typical scenario is someone posts something that I disagree with, in part or in total. I say so. Then the personal attacks start. You just have to look at recent threads to see that is true. Like I have to have last word, like I'm using someone else's talking points, I act like a child, etc.. The comments just reveal that you have nothing to say. How you all can justify attacking my personality and character because is beyond me. Actually, it's not. It's what many people do when they've run out arguments or can't defend their position with facts, etc. If anyone thinks I am hurt be these attacks, I'm not. The problem is yours, not mine.

I believe about 10% of the above.

And that's mostly the conjunctions......

On Thursday, 27 July 2023 at 06:57:54 UTC+1, Herman wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 5:54:39 PM UTC+2, Frank Berger wrote:
> >
> > In fact, I have zero interest in having the last word.

My random guess is that it's "an eye for an eye" - can't break the old rules.

The way DK put it was "if somebody hits you, hit them back ten times - no, 100 times - as hard".