On Monday, January 3, 2005 at 7:17:13 AM UTC-8, Josep Vilanova wrote:
> I never liked Rattle (mostly since I paid £150 to see him butchering a
> Parsifal in the Royal Opera House in London). I always had an strong
> admiration to Barenboim though. Now that Rattle has been the main conductor
> (or whatever his title is) of the Berlin Philarmonic for a while, what is
> the general view of him there? Do people consider him worthy to have that
> post? Do people consider him a waste of time, a mistake taken by the members
> of that orchestra in a moment of collective delusion? Do they think that
> Barenboim would have been a much better candidate? Do they consider Rattle a
> worthy successor of Furtwangler, Karajan and Abbado?
> josep

https://groups.google.com/u/1/g/humanities.music.composers.wagner/c/wdiopOqm_f8

Reading this topic, some time after Rattle's tenure at Berlin ended, one wonders again, especially at the posters who seem to think they are better judges of who should have gotten the BPO job, Rattle or Barenboim than the BPO orchestra members.
And this included crazy squeak Hurwitz who thinks the orchestra would base its decision on how critics like him talked about Barenboim's Bruckner cycle with the BPO.
Obviously an orchestra thinks about other things: how is working every day with mr X or Y going to be, where is he going with the orchestra culture and character, what kind of music are we going to perform with him and how will we connect with Berlin, Germany and the world in the future?
Orchestras frigging hate making records.

Herman schrieb am Samstag, 26. August 2023 um 10:53:45 UTC+2:
> Reading this topic, some time after Rattle's tenure at Berlin ended, one wonders again, especially at the posters who seem to think they are better judges of who should have gotten the BPO job, Rattle or Barenboim than the BPO orchestra members.
> And this included crazy squeak Hurwitz who thinks the orchestra would base its decision on how critics like him talked about Barenboim's Bruckner cycle with the BPO.
> Obviously an orchestra thinks about other things: how is working every day with mr X or Y going to be, where is he going with the orchestra culture and character, what kind of music are we going to perform with him and how will we connect with Berlin, Germany and the world in the future?
> Orchestras frigging hate making records.

I am just using your post - which I haven't read - to tell y'all that imo the best Beethoven recordings were made by Erich Kleiber, Carlos Kleiber, Mengelberg and Karajan (1963).

On Saturday, August 26, 2023 at 1:53:45 AM UTC-7, Herman wrote:
> Reading this topic, some time after Rattle's tenure at Berlin ended, one wonders again, especially at the posters who seem to think they are better judges of who should have gotten the BPO job, Rattle or Barenboim than the BPO orchestra members.
> And this included crazy squeak Hurwitz who thinks the orchestra would base its decision on how critics like him talked about Barenboim's Bruckner cycle with the BPO.
> Obviously an orchestra thinks about other things: how is working every day with mr X or Y going to be, where is he going with the orchestra culture and character, what kind of music are we going to perform with him and how will we connect with Berlin, Germany and the world in the future?
> Orchestras frigging hate making records.

https://groups.google.com/u/1/g/rec.music.classical.recordings/c/fZx4xhgUfx4/m/C5NOa-_nCQAJ

Herman schrieb am Samstag, 26. August 2023 um 10:53:45 UTC+2:
> Reading this topic, some time after Rattle's tenure at Berlin ended, one wonders again, especially at the posters who seem to think they are better judges of who should have gotten the BPO job, Rattle or Barenboim than the BPO orchestra members.
> And this included crazy squeak Hurwitz who thinks the orchestra would base its decision on how critics like him talked about Barenboim's Bruckner cycle with the BPO.
> Obviously an orchestra thinks about other things: how is working every day with mr X or Y going to be, where is he going with the orchestra culture and character, what kind of music are we going to perform with him and how will we connect with Berlin, Germany and the world in the future?
> Orchestras frigging hate making records.

I am just using your post - which I haven't read - to tell y'all that imo the best Beethoven recordings were made by Erich Kleiber, Carlos Kleiber, Mengelberg and Karajan (1963).
. Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Notsure01 <docduc1013@aol.com>
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Subject: Re: Apple to acquire BIS label
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2023 10:30:11 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <57965c3a-9306-a22c-bbc2-086a48c48bd2@aol.com>
References: <bced3943-7f68-4e16-88c2-ad4485179b84n@googlegroups.com>
<MNiKM.146957$sOsa.23030@fx04.ams4>
<5a111119-fe5b-b302-0ed6-52c73c486dd4@aol.com>
<fe99f174-3a40-407d-bf2e-fab331f12064n@googlegroups.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="eef40cb3160be04638c66ebb1f98180c";
logging-data="3181897"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+GmSpPxWZGfd2DbAn06IJP9fV82SKPXBA="
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:102.0)
Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.15.0
Cancel-Lock: sha1:nFSK2hosctDTno1Stn8+6GCtDHIContent-Language: en-US
In-Reply-To: <fe99f174-3a40-407d-bf2e-fab331f12064n@googlegroups.com>
Xref: rslight rec.music.classical.recordings:58741

On 9/7/23 9:57 AM, Gerard wrote:
> Op donderdag 7 september 2023 om 14:22:25 UTC+2 schreef Notsure0
>>
>> I have many fine BIS CDs and it is obviously an admirable company, so it
>> is encouraging that it will survive in any form - we are all aware of
>> the dozens of labels which have folded over the years making their
>> performances difficult to obtain.
>>
>> All in all, the embrace of Apple of classical can only help increase
>> interest - so that is a good thing! (Although I much prefer Presto
>> streaming...)
>
> It always has been BIS's policy to keep all their recordings available. I cannot imagine that his will be Aplle's policy as well.
>

I hope they do - the only cost for Apple could be the disk space - but
BIS does specialize in uncommon works so some recordings may not garner
many of those "Likes"! (Although uneven, I greatly enjoy Suzuki's Bach..)

(And I hope you launch a September WAYLTL soon - it may become one of
the most interesting threads)
. X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:8b86:b0:76f:130a:c957 with SMTP id qx6-20020a05620a8b8600b0076f130ac957mr191570qkn.11.1695096656203;
Mon, 18 Sep 2023 21:10:56 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:ec4:b0:3a8:41a7:eafc with SMTP id
q4-20020a0568080ec400b003a841a7eafcmr4678900oiv.7.1695096655971; Mon, 18 Sep
2023 21:10:55 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!border-2.nntp.ord.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2023 21:10:55 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <d046611d-e3b8-4e8d-b631-123775546c38n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host3.137.15.68; posting-account=n2N0pwoAAAAM43hx1FijIzzgs4FdjjQs
NNTP-Posting-Host: 103.137.15.68
References: <fe1b415f-e3f8-479f-85ea-a34538ff2e8dn@googlegroups.com>
<e349c096-6131-4b39-9cb3-959acb5850fdn@googlegroups.com> <c9caf10d-36c6-49be-9e69-5cfc722c308an@googlegroups.com>
<ea2f0137-e1d1-4d10-9220-30ca9d5ac14en@googlegroups.com> <29a06d3d-c100-47f9-a99f-afa4743ea0f6n@googlegroups.com>
<2d6f22bd-55be-4cd7-b058-7e61c0e1d43an@googlegroups.com> <c861a3f0-e01c-4a99-a471-489a9c1f471bn@googlegroups.com>
<4391fec6-f89b-4a0e-a3ca-22d43a1e43c5n@googlegroups.com> <8f7534a3-7ead-415a-9839-ce395e287efbn@googlegroups.com>
<d046611d-e3b8-4e8d-b631-123775546c38n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <671977a3-0ff1-4791-8119-bdad55d36493n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Critics name their best orchestras and conductors
From: Andrew Clarke <andrewclarke437@gmail.com>
Injection-Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2023 04:10:56 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Lines: 30
Xref: rslight rec.music.classical.recordings:58741

On Tuesday, September 19, 2023 at 12:47:14 PM UTC+10, rec.music.classical.recordings wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 19, 2023 at 2:45:09 AM UTC+2, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> >
> >
> > And in any case, how many of these giant ensembles does America - or indeed London - need?
> >
> London has a super thriving music culture. In the arts the supply creates demand. Just look at the many many orchestras in Germany.

It does have a thriving music culture, although the ENO is having problems at the moment, but does it really need *five* big symphony orchestras all playing the standard repertoire and competing for the standard audience? Only one of them, after all, is directly funded by the state. And we keep on hearing that at least one of the other four is in financial difficulty and may have to disband.

>
> Also, I'd like to see some numbers for your assertion that there is less "property crime" in the southern USA because of "solidarity". They also shoot and kill each other less because of this?

What I wrote concerned the small towns off the highways and in the Mississippi Delta, a few hundred people, several abandoned buildings and a Dollar General. I was not referring to Baton Rouge, Pine Bluff, Little Rock, East St Louis or Memphis.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra.
. X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:84d:b0:775:74da:8c4f with SMTP id u13-20020a05620a084d00b0077574da8c4fmr109421qku.5.1696616955088;
Fri, 06 Oct 2023 11:29:15 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6870:5a9a:b0:1e1:82c6:33f9 with SMTP id
dt26-20020a0568705a9a00b001e182c633f9mr3831526oab.6.1696616954859; Fri, 06
Oct 2023 11:29:14 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer01.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2023 11:29:14 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <01226bdf-fa50-421d-b7b4-12e32d15c6d5n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host 03:cc:f21:88e7:5911:74af:5382:3f12;
posting-account=Zd3N6woAAAChXcJ25uTdghyzQ3PscByS
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2003:cc:f21:88e7:5911:74af:5382:3f12
References: <8acf0410-a69a-4702-96a9-4aedc505187dn@googlegroups.com>
<b91af3ed-6c3f-4e9d-a0f2-cc8187a96067n@googlegroups.com> <01226bdf-fa50-421d-b7b4-12e32d15c6d5n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <2e631841-6d90-4167-94fa-8eb003bac0ecn@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: WRT Nozze - My apologies to Bob Harper
From: Marc S <marcs12212@gmail.com>
Injection-Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2023 18:29:15 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 2044
Xref: rslight rec.music.classical.recordings:58741

wkasimer schrieb am Mittwoch, 4. Oktober 2023 um 16:16:07 UTC+2:
> On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 2:49:22 PM UTC-4, Marc S wrote:
> > Marc S schrieb am Dienstag, 3. Oktober 2023 um 11:14:02 UTC+2:
> > > You were right in considering Kleiber's Nozze as your favourite. It was actually the first one I heard and fell in love with; just tried to question my feeling, to understand what I like and why - now I'm wiser.
> > No, I have to take it back.
> >
> > While I agree that Güden is a great Susanna, and most of the other singers being great as well; the conducting just doesn't work for me.
> Poell is a pretty dreadful Almaviva.

Gut Schabbes!
. Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!newsreader4.netcologne.de!news.netcologne.de!peer03.ams1!peer.ams1.xlned.com!news.xlned.com!peer02.ams4!peer.am4.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!fx12.ams4.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: "Chris J." <christophjohansen@mailservice.invalid>
Subject: Re: How many recordings of songs exist by Comedian Harmonists?
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
References: <60794206-3048-42e4-83d0-e5249d27e5a1n@googlegroups.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
User-Agent: Pan/0.149 (Bellevue; 4c157ba)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <En60N.343080$tGp5.236056@fx12.ams4>
X-Complaints-To: http://support.highwinds-media.com
NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2023 12:26:12 UTC
Organization: Usenet4u
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2023 12:26:12 GMT
X-Received-Bytes: 1416
Xref: rslight rec.music.classical.recordings:58741

On Saturday, August 26, 2023 at 1:53:45 AM UTC-7, Herman wrote:
> Reading this topic, some time after Rattle's tenure at Berlin ended, one wonders again, especially at the posters who seem to think they are better judges of who should have gotten the BPO job, Rattle or Barenboim than the BPO orchestra members.
> And this included crazy squeak Hurwitz who thinks the orchestra would base its decision on how critics like him talked about Barenboim's Bruckner cycle with the BPO.
> Obviously an orchestra thinks about other things: how is working every day with mr X or Y going to be, where is he going with the orchestra culture and character, what kind of music are we going to perform with him and how will we connect with Berlin, Germany and the world in the future?
> Orchestras frigging hate making records.

https://groups.google.com/u/1/g/rec.music.classical.recordings/c/fZx4xhgUfx4/m/C5NOa-_nCQAJ
. Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer01.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!fx16.iad.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Mr. Mike <mjq@mjq.net>
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Subject: Re: Apple to acquire BIS label
Message-ID: <qrojfihvp6fck86j14kb7mh4avscu3co04@4ax.com>
References: <bced3943-7f68-4e16-88c2-ad4485179b84n@googlegroups.com> <MNiKM.146957$sOsa.23030@fx04.ams4> <5a111119-fe5b-b302-0ed6-52c73c486dd4@aol.com>
User-Agent: ForteAgent/8.00.32.1272
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lines: 17
X-Complaints-To: abuse@usenetserver.com
NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2023 14:54:22 UTC
Organization: UsenetServer - www.usenetserver.com
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2023 07:53:38 -0700
X-Received-Bytes: 1453
Xref: rslight rec.music.classical.recordings:58744

On Thu, 7 Sep 2023 08:22:18 -0400, Notsure01 <docduc1013@aol.com>
wrote:

>But now it is to Apple's advantage to keep the BIS catalog, since they
>save when its performances are chosen - and more so if the BIS versions
>are recommended by the Apple Classical algorithm.

What about the recent BIS releases in SACD format? How will Apple deal
with that as far as streaming is concerned? The blab from Apple's site
about their new service says

Enjoy the highest audio quality available (up to 192 kHz/24-bit Hi-Res
Lossless) and hear classical favorites like never before in spatial
audio, all with zero ads.

I don't think "spatial audio" in this case means SACD type spatial
audio, but Dolby Atmos spatial audio ... or does it?
. X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:3c14:b0:76d:aaa7:eb1c with SMTP id tn20-20020a05620a3c1400b0076daaa7eb1cmr209001qkn.8.1695105570349;
Mon, 18 Sep 2023 23:39:30 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:3089:b0:3a7:5742:ce92 with SMTP id
bl9-20020a056808308900b003a75742ce92mr5035168oib.0.1695105570104; Mon, 18 Sep
2023 23:39:30 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer01.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2023 23:39:29 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <c9c37089-eed6-44bd-8ef1-b905a76de229n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-hostX.107.234.133; posting-account=jJMwIAgAAACnguZbKk1u7KdPB-n4nrvI
NNTP-Posting-Host: 58.107.234.133
References: <3047cd8c-61e8-4cc3-8f40-c19161df95b9n@googlegroups.com>
<d208cf6b-9570-4411-9863-cc1d75abb304n@googlegroups.com> <51130c2f-3144-4c1d-8469-fc8e898e228an@googlegroups.com>
<aeb0e81b-950f-4aa2-b5fb-f9663ee6c995n@googlegroups.com> <5defbfd1-d193-4e7c-bcfd-9239d94a6cd0n@googlegroups.com>
<f0cd2721-df69-43b8-a453-3690fa7ec2f6n@googlegroups.com> <e464a76a-8b2a-450f-a3e4-188385976cc1n@googlegroups.com>
<2b071f16-1156-4aee-985d-aa85d6d1178en@googlegroups.com> <c9c37089-eed6-44bd-8ef1-b905a76de229n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <37f2d960-75e0-4d67-996b-f36d8a2c0f9fn@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: A "revelatory" performance of the last mvmt of Bruckner's 7th?
From: "raymond....@gmail.com" <raymond.hallbear1@gmail.com>
Injection-Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2023 06:39:30 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 4027
Xref: rslight rec.music.classical.recordings:58744

On Tuesday, 19 September 2023 at 13:08:59 UTC+10, rec.music.classical.recordings wrote:
> Op dinsdag 19 september 2023 om 01:23:51 UTC+2 schreef raymond....gmail.com:
> > On Monday, 18 September 2023 at 23:25:11 UTC+10, mswd...gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Monday, September 18, 2023 at 7:42:56 AM UTC-5, Dan Koren wrote:
> > >
> > > > Tempi cannot be compared across
> > > > different editions.
> > > I take your point, but obviously, they can. I can refer to roughly identical passages passages and say, "well, if there are different tempi instructions, I think one is better than the other". (Do I need to refer to a score to find out whether a tempi is clearly marked or if what I hear is the choice of the conductor? Some would say yes- me, I don't care.) You may say "that is an incorrect method", to which my response is that my level of worship will never be so great that I don't see value in occasionally breaking rules or executing a technical error. I'm going to judge what works, respecting the fact that what works in my brain has inherently limited value for others.
> > > > > I think Inbal is underrated, so I will have
> > > > > to refamiliarize myself with these.
> > > > indeed he is.
> > > I recall Inbal being touted by - who was it? The fellow who some later thought was Barrington-Coupe. Alan Watkins? AW always had interesting opinions, whomever he was.
> > >
> > > > dk
> > The Inbal Bruckner has always been available on Teldec from the early days of CD. I bought several of them individually but as I have already said, the original versions are rarely if ever played at a concert. Strikes me that if one says that only the original versions are acceptable, then we are entering a mode of pernicketyness occupied by the original hipsters. There is good reason why Haas, Nowak editions have prevailed, without getting too theoretical about it. However if the original versions floats boats then its ok for the floaters.
> >
> > Ray Hall, Taree
> Bruckner himself has made different versions (revisions or whatever they are named) of some of his symphonies. Why should one play the "original" versions in those cases?

Maybe you can tell me.

Ray Hall, Taree
. Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!newsfeed.xs3.de!callisto.xs3.de!nntp-feed.chiark.greenend.org.uk!ewrotcd!news.eyrie.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: mccomb@medieval.org (Todd M. McComb)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Subject: Re: The Gramophone Awards 2023
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2023 20:06:14 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Medieval Music & Arts Foundation
Message-ID: <ufppbl$2ne$1@hope.eyrie.org>
References: <625a32d9-4d58-4ae0-97f9-481df45d4919n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2023 20:06:14 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: hope.eyrie.org;
logging-data="2798"; mail-complaints-to="news@eyrie.org"
X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test77 (Sep 1, 2010)
Originator: todd@pangkur.medieval.org (Todd M. McComb)
Xref: rslight rec.music.classical.recordings:58744

In article <625a32d9-4d58-4ae0-97f9-481df45d4919n@googlegroups.com>,
Andrew Clarke <andrewclarke437@gmail.com> wrote:
>Choral
>John Cage: Choral Works

Surprised to see this here, but I did add remarks on this worthwhile
recording to my Cage page -- back in '22 when it was released.

>Early Music
>Ludwig Daser: Polyphonic Masses
>Huelgas-Ensemble, Paul Van Nevel

I also reviewed this item, despite that it's later than my usual
era on the medieval side. So I agree it was worth noting, as a
"new" composer, who by the way has a new release this month on
Hyperion as well....

>Label of the Year
>BIS

Heh.

.
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!feeder2.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: cdc <cdc@mail.com>
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Subject: BAZ Presence
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2023 17:01:48 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <uhrbts$14nl8$1@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2023 17:01:48 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="f1d3596df2677831553f24c748d173f7";
logging-data="1203880"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+g3bxYR/LkRMc3KvsMPR+4"
User-Agent: Pan/0.149 (Bellevue; 4c157ba)
Cancel-Lock: sha1:EZe6FbrmPVzg8KC8tw3kg39Xk+AXref: rslight rec.music.classical.recordings:58744