https://bachtrack.com/worlds-best-orchestra-best-conductor-critics-choice-september-2023

On Sunday, 17 September 2023 at 18:18:27 UTC+1, Herman wrote:
> https://bachtrack.com/worlds-best-orchestra-best-conductor-critics-choice-september-2023

Petrenko comes out top. I'm not convinced. Very little charm, fast dynamic performances..... OK but there is more to it than that.

On Sunday, September 17, 2023 at 10:18:27 AM UTC-7, Herman wrote:
> https://bachtrack.com/worlds-best-orchestra-best-conductor-critics-choice-september-2023

What kind of joke is this ?!?

The top 10 orchestras are
all European or American ?!?

The top 4 orchestras are all
historically Fascist and Nazi ?!?

All the 10 top konduktors are
white European men, and only
2 out of 10 are Jewish ?!?

This is clear evidence of racism,
chauvinism, anti-semitism and
racism!

The fact this article was published
just before Rosh Hashana is strong
ievidence it is a deliberate insult to
Jewish and other non-European
and non-white musicians.

And who posted the link? None other
the self-appointed anti-racism police
Homo Harminius Batavicus Horibilis!

This is the pinnacle of hypocrisy !!!

dk

On Sun, 17 Sep 2023 16:00:28 -0700, Dan Koren wrote:

> On Sunday, September 17, 2023 at 10:18:27???AM UTC-7, Herman wrote:
> > https://bachtrack.com/worlds-best-orchestra-best-conductor-critics-choice-september-2023
>
> What kind of joke is this ?!?
>
> The top 10 orchestras are
> all European or American ?!?
>
> The top 4 orchestras are all
> historically Fascist and Nazi ?!?
>
> All the 10 top konduktors are
> white European men, and only
> 2 out of 10 are Jewish ?!?
>
> This is clear evidence of racism,
> chauvinism, anti-semitism and
> racism!
>
> The fact this article was published
> just before Rosh Hashana is strong
> ievidence it is a deliberate insult to
> Jewish and other non-European
> and non-white musicians.
>
> And who posted the link? None other
> the self-appointed anti-racism police
> Homo Harminius Batavicus Horibilis!
>
> This is the pinnacle of hypocrisy !!!
>
> dk

According to DumbKopf, 80% of orchestras
are antisemitic! Then why aren't 80% of
critics antisemitic? That's an outrage!

On Monday, September 18, 2023 at 3:18:27 AM UTC+10, Herman wrote:
> https://bachtrack.com/worlds-best-orchestra-best-conductor-critics-choice-september-2023

My goodness me! S*r S*m*on R*ttl* gets the silver medal for conducting! And all three of the orchestras he's recently conducted - or about to conduct - are on the list! Is there no end to Th* Gr*m*ph*n*'s underhand activities? And Klaus Makela, the conductor of "juvenile" Sibelius! Money must have changed hands!
I await Big Dave's next video offering with considerable interest.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

On Monday, 18 September 2023 at 09:52:49 UTC+10, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> On Monday, September 18, 2023 at 3:18:27 AM UTC+10, Herman wrote:
> > https://bachtrack.com/worlds-best-orchestra-best-conductor-critics-choice-september-2023
>
> My goodness me! S*r S*m*on R*ttl* gets the silver medal for conducting! And all three of the orchestras he's recently conducted - or about to conduct - are on the list! Is there no end to Th* Gr*m*ph*n*'s underhand activities? And Klaus Makela, the conductor of "juvenile" Sibelius! Money must have changed hands!

Big money, no doubt about it.

> I await Big Dave's next video offering with considerable interest.

This article was so bad I don't know why it has excited such interest. Juvenile stuff.

Ray Hall, Taree

On Sunday, September 17, 2023 at 5:03:29 PM UTC-7, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
>
> This article was so bad I don't know why
> it has excited such interest. Juvenile stuff.

Most of the people who write here appear to
be first graders.

dk

On Sunday, September 17, 2023 at 4:46:07 PM UTC-7, Pluted Pup wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Sep 2023 16:00:28 -0700, Dan Koren wrote:
> > On Sunday, September 17, 2023 at 10:18:27???AM UTC-7, Herman wrote:
> > > https://bachtrack.com/worlds-best-orchestra-best-conductor-critics-choice-september-2023
> >
> > What kind of joke is this ?!?
> >
> > The top 10 orchestras are
> > all European or American ?!?
> >
> > The top 4 orchestras are all
> > historically Fascist and Nazi ?!?
> >
> > All the 10 top konduktors are
> > white European men, and only
> > 2 out of 10 are Jewish ?!?
> >
> > This is clear evidence of racism,
> > chauvinism, anti-semitism and
> > racism!
> >
> > The fact this article was published
> > just before Rosh Hashana is strong
> > ievidence it is a deliberate insult to
> > Jewish and other non-European
> > and non-white musicians.
> >
> > And who posted the link? None other
> > the self-appointed anti-racism police
> > Homo Harminius Batavicus Horibilis!
> >
> > This is the pinnacle of hypocrisy !!!
>
> According to DumbKopf, 80% of
> orchestras are antisemitic!

Actually 95%.

> Then why aren't 80% of critics
> antisemitic? That's an outrage!

They are. You are just too pluted
to tell.

dk

On Monday, September 18, 2023 at 10:03:29 AM UTC+10, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, 18 September 2023 at 09:52:49 UTC+10, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> > On Monday, September 18, 2023 at 3:18:27 AM UTC+10, Herman wrote:
> > > https://bachtrack.com/worlds-best-orchestra-best-conductor-critics-choice-september-2023
> >
> > My goodness me! S*r S*m*on R*ttl* gets the silver medal for conducting! And all three of the orchestras he's recently conducted - or about to conduct - are on the list! Is there no end to Th* Gr*m*ph*n*'s underhand activities? And Klaus Makela, the conductor of "juvenile" Sibelius! Money must have changed hands!
> Big money, no doubt about it.
> > I await Big Dave's next video offering with considerable interest.
> This article was so bad I don't know why it has excited such interest. Juvenile stuff.
>
> Ray Hall, Taree

And only two of the American Big Five got onto the list. Mind you, it must be very hard for an orchestra to give an inspired performance when its audience consists almost entirely of bell tents and shopping trolleys.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

On Sunday, September 17, 2023 at 4:52:49 PM UTC-7, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> On Monday, September 18, 2023 at 3:18:27 AM UTC+10, Herman wrote:
> > https://bachtrack.com/worlds-best-orchestra-best-conductor-critics-choice-september-2023
>
> My goodness me! S*r S*m*on R*ttl* gets the silver medal
> for conducting! And all three of the orchestras he's recently
> conducted - or about to conduct - are on the list! Is there no
> end to Th* Gr*m*ph*n*'s underhand activities? And Klaus
> Makela, the conductor of "juvenile" Sibelius! Money must
> have changed hands!

No amount of money can heal pluted concrete eardrums.

dk

On Monday, September 18, 2023 at 1:00:32 AM UTC+2, Dan Koren wrote:
>
> What kind of joke is this ?!?
>
>
please go away

On Sunday, September 17, 2023 at 5:21:43 PM UTC-7, Herman wrote:
> On Monday, September 18, 2023 at 1:00:32 AM UTC+2, Dan Koren wrote:
> >
> > What kind of joke is this ?!?
>
> please go away

After you ......

dk

On Sunday, September 17, 2023 at 5:19:53 PM UTC-7, Andrew Clarke wrote:
>
> And only two of the American
> Big Five got onto the list.

Yet more evidence the voting
was rigged. No American
orchestras are still in the
top ten.

> Mind you, it must be very hard for
> an orchestra to give an inspired
> performance when its audience
> consists almost entirely of bell
> tents and shopping trolleys.

Or when the audience consists
almost entirely of kangaroos
and wallabies.

dk

On Sunday, September 17, 2023 at 5:19:53 PM UTC-7, Andrew Clarke wrote:
>
> And only two of the American
> Big Five got onto the list.

Actually 3, Los Angeles was in
10th position, which they don't
deserve. Or maybe they do not
belong to the official "Big Five".

The only Big Five I know is

https://www.big5sportinggoods.com/store/

Time to wax one's skis.

dk

On Monday, September 18, 2023 at 10:54:37 AM UTC+10, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Sunday, September 17, 2023 at 5:19:53 PM UTC-7, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> >
> > And only two of the American
> > Big Five got onto the list.
> Actually 3, Los Angeles was in
> 10th position, which they don't
> deserve. Or maybe they do not
> belong to the official "Big Five".
>
> The only Big Five I know is
>
> https://www.big5sportinggoods.com/store/
>
> Time to wax one's skis.
>
> dk

I hadn't realised until a few minutes ago that the "Big Five" has changed over the years. The original Big Five was strictly East Coast and Midwest I believe. I was thinking of New York, Boston, Chicago, San Fran and Los Angeles, which may be controversial.

But then I don't get to hear these orchestras anymore, unlike during the Golden Age when the ABC here played lots and lots of recordings of American orchestras, and not just the Big Five, either.

Meanwhile the Philadelphia Orchestra is being threatened with strike action.. I don't think they've made a record since Big Dave's bar mitzva.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

On Sunday, September 17, 2023 at 8:23:20 PM UTC-7, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> On Monday, September 18, 2023 at 10:54:37 AM UTC+10, Dan Koren wrote:
> > On Sunday, September 17, 2023 at 5:19:53 PM UTC-7, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> > >
> > > And only two of the American
> > > Big Five got onto the list.
> > Actually 3, Los Angeles was in
> > 10th position, which they don't
> > deserve. Or maybe they do not
> > belong to the official "Big Five".
> >
> > The only Big Five I know is
> >
> > https://www.big5sportinggoods.com/store/
> >
> > Time to wax one's skis.
>
> I hadn't realised until a few minutes
> ago that the "Big Five" has changed
> over the years.

The "Big Five" have shrunk to zero. No
American Orchestra is worth listening
to anymore. They just don't have the
konduktors.

> The original Big Five was strictly East
> Coast and Midwest I believe.

The original 5 were Boston, Philly, NYPO,
Chicago and Cleveland.

> I was thinking of New York, Boston,
> Chicago, San Fran and Los Angeles,
> which may be controversial.

The SFO was never better than second
tier. Edo de Waart killed it completely.
Blomstedt managed to revive it for a
short time. MTT was a disaster, and
Esa-Pekka seems bent on outrattling
Rattle.

LAPO was OK under Mehta, Giulini
and Previn. Esa-Pekka killed it, and
he is about to kill the SFO as well.

West Coast orchestras also suffer
from the lack of decent sounding
halls.

> But then I don't get to hear these
> orchestras anymore,
That is very healthy indeed. You
have not missed anything.

> unlike during the Golden Age when
> the ABC here played lots and lots of
> recordings of American orchestras,
> and not just the Big Five, either.

What "Golden Age"?

> Meanwhile the Philadelphia Orchestra
> is being threatened with strike action. I
> don't think they've made a record since
> Big Dave's bar mitzva.

They did. If my calendar is accurate, Big
Dave's bar mitzva was in 1974 if he did
not skip it.

Note that the Philadelphia has not had a
conductor since Wolfgang Sawallisch.
20 years without a conductor will kill
any orchestra.

dk

On Sunday, September 17, 2023 at 5:19:53 PM UTC-7, Andrew Clarke wrote:
>
> And only two of the American Big Five got onto the list.
> Mind you, it must be very hard for an orchestra to give
> an inspired performance when its audience consists
> almost entirely of bell tents and shopping trolleys.

Clearly the notion no French, Spanish, Scandinavian,
Russian or Japanese symphony orchestras belong
in the top 10 reveals bias and prejudice.

dk

On Sunday, September 17, 2023 at 4:52:49 PM UTC-7, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> On Monday, September 18, 2023 at 3:18:27 AM UTC+10, Herman wrote:
> > https://bachtrack.com/worlds-best-orchestra-best-conductor-critics-choice-september-2023
>
> My goodness me! S*r S*m*on R*ttl* gets the silver medal
> for conducting! And all three of the orchestras he's recently
> conducted - or about to conduct - are on the list! Is there no
> end to Th* Gr*m*ph*n*'s underhand activities? And Klaus
> Makela, the conductor of "juvenile" Sibelius!

Clearly a top 10 conductor list that does not include Leif Segerstam,
Eivind Gullberg Jensen, Alondra de la Parra or Tomomi Nishimoto is
the result of bias, ignorance, prejudice and concrete eardrums.

Clearly a top 10 orchestras list that does not include Sinfónica de
Galicia, the Czech Philharmonic, the Munich Philharmonic, the NHK
Kōkyō Gakudan, the Tokyo Philharmonic, the Russian National
Orchestra, L'Orchestre de Paris, or the Singapore Symphony. is
the result of bias, prejudice, ignorance, concrete eardrums, and
pro-Germanic Anglo-Saxon racism.

Case closed.

dk

On Sunday, September 17, 2023 at 8:56:55 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Sunday, September 17, 2023 at 4:52:49 PM UTC-7, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> > On Monday, September 18, 2023 at 3:18:27 AM UTC+10, Herman wrote:
> > > https://bachtrack.com/worlds-best-orchestra-best-conductor-critics-choice-september-2023
> >
> > My goodness me! S*r S*m*on R*ttl* gets the silver medal
> > for conducting! And all three of the orchestras he's recently
> > conducted - or about to conduct - are on the list! Is there no
> > end to Th* Gr*m*ph*n*'s underhand activities? And Klaus
> > Makela, the conductor of "juvenile" Sibelius!
> Clearly a top 10 conductor list that does not include Leif Segerstam,
> Eivind Gullberg Jensen, Alondra de la Parra or Tomomi Nishimoto is
> the result of bias, ignorance, prejudice and concrete eardrums.
>
> Clearly a top 10 orchestras list that does not include Sinfónica de
> Galicia, the Czech Philharmonic, the Munich Philharmonic, the NHK
> Kōkyō Gakudan, the Tokyo Philharmonic, the Russian National
> Orchestra, L'Orchestre de Paris, or the Singapore Symphony. is
> the result of bias, prejudice, ignorance, concrete eardrums, and
> pro-Germanic Anglo-Saxon racism.

Or the KBS and the Seoul Philharmonic Orchestra.

dk

On Sunday, September 17, 2023 at 8:58:56 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Sunday, September 17, 2023 at 8:56:55 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
> > On Sunday, September 17, 2023 at 4:52:49 PM UTC-7, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> > > On Monday, September 18, 2023 at 3:18:27 AM UTC+10, Herman wrote:
> > > > https://bachtrack.com/worlds-best-orchestra-best-conductor-critics-choice-september-2023
> > >
> > > My goodness me! S*r S*m*on R*ttl* gets the silver medal
> > > for conducting! And all three of the orchestras he's recently
> > > conducted - or about to conduct - are on the list! Is there no
> > > end to Th* Gr*m*ph*n*'s underhand activities? And Klaus
> > > Makela, the conductor of "juvenile" Sibelius!
> >
> > Clearly a top 10 conductor list that does not include Leif Segerstam,
> > Eivind Gullberg Jensen, Alondra de la Parra or Tomomi Nishimoto is
> > the result of bias, ignorance, prejudice and concrete eardrums.
> >
> > Clearly a top 10 orchestras list that does not include Sinfónica de
> > Galicia, the Czech Philharmonic, the Munich Philharmonic, the NHK
> > Kōkyō Gakudan, the Tokyo Philharmonic, the Russian National
> > Orchestra, L'Orchestre de Paris, or the Singapore Symphony. is
> > the result of bias, prejudice, ignorance, concrete eardrums, and
> > pro-Germanic Anglo-Saxon racism.
>
> Or the KBS and the Seoul Philharmonic Orchestra.

Or come to think of it, the Israel Philharmonic.

dk

On Monday, 18 September 2023 at 13:45:10 UTC+10, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Sunday, September 17, 2023 at 5:19:53 PM UTC-7, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> >
> > And only two of the American Big Five got onto the list.
> > Mind you, it must be very hard for an orchestra to give
> > an inspired performance when its audience consists
> > almost entirely of bell tents and shopping trolleys.
> Clearly the notion no French, Spanish, Scandinavian,
> Russian or Japanese symphony orchestras belong
> in the top 10 reveals bias and prejudice.
>
> dk

Nor the Czech PO.

Ray Hall, Taree

On Sunday, September 17, 2023 at 9:25:38 PM UTC-7, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, 18 September 2023 at 13:45:10 UTC+10, Dan Koren wrote:
> > On Sunday, September 17, 2023 at 5:19:53 PM UTC-7, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> > >
> > > And only two of the American Big Five got onto the list.
> > > Mind you, it must be very hard for an orchestra to give
> > > an inspired performance when its audience consists
> > > almost entirely of bell tents and shopping trolleys.
> >
> > Clearly the notion no French, Spanish, Scandinavian,
> > Russian or Japanese symphony orchestras belong
> > in the top 10 reveals bias and prejudice.
>
> Nor the Czech PO.

I mentioned it in a follow up article.

dk

On Sunday, September 17, 2023 at 7:18:27 PM UTC+2, Herman wrote:
> https://bachtrack.com/worlds-best-orchestra-best-conductor-critics-choice-september-2023

It's just a bunch of music writers / critics who were polled:

Dr Eleonore Büning (Frankfurter Allgemeine Sonntagszeitung et.al, Germany), Neil Fisher (The Times, UK), Arthur Kaptainis (Classical Voice, Canada), Joshua Kosman (San Francisco Chronicle, US), Fiona Maddocks (The Observer, UK), Serge Martin (Le Soir, Belgium), Alberto Mattioli (La Stampa, Italy), Peter McCallum (Sydney Morning Herald, Australia), Christian Merlin (Le Figaro, France), Guido van Oorschot (de Volkskrant, Netherlands), Pablo L. Rodríguez (El País, Spain), Alex Ross (The New Yorker, US), Mark Swed (LA Times, US), Markus Thiel (Merkur, Germany), Walter Weidringer (Die Presse, Austria).

If you don't agree, or, perhaps, have not heard heard any of these top three orchestras other than on CD or in some other canned form, there is no reason to doubt your own preferences.
It doesn't matter.
The Bachtrack poll indicates a very strong feeling the Berlin Philharmonic and any conductor who's ever been near that orchestra, is where it's at.

On Monday, September 18, 2023 at 3:15:24 AM UTC-7, Herman wrote:
> On Sunday, September 17, 2023 at 7:18:27 PM UTC+2, Herman wrote:
> > https://bachtrack.com/worlds-best-orchestra-best-conductor-critics-choice-september-2023
>
> It's just a bunch of music writers / critics who were polled:

Indeed. The typical industry insider racket.

> Dr Eleonore Büning (Frankfurter Allgemeine Sonntagszeitung
> et.al, Germany), Neil Fisher (The Times, UK), Arthur Kaptainis
> (Classical Voice, Canada), Joshua Kosman (San Francisco
> Chronicle, US), Fiona Maddocks (The Observer, UK), Serge
> Martin (Le Soir, Belgium), Alberto Mattioli (La Stampa, Italy),
> Peter McCallum (Sydney Morning Herald, Australia), Christian
> Merlin (Le Figaro, France), Guido van Oorschot (de Volkskrant,
> Netherlands), Pablo L. Rodríguez (El País, Spain), Alex Ross (The
> New Yorker, US), Mark Swed (LA Times, US), Markus Thiel (Merkur,
> Germany), Walter Weidringer (Die Presse, Austria).

Norman Lebrecht was not consulted? Dave Hurwitz was not
consulted? Donald Vroon was not consulted?

> If you don't agree, or, perhaps, have not heard heard any of
> these top three orchestras other than on CD or in some other
> canned form, there is no reason to doubt your own preferences.

I heard all the orchestras listed, and many others.

> The Bachtrack poll indicates a very strong feeling
> the Berlin Philharmonic and any conductor who's
> ever been near that orchestra, is where it's at.

The last thing the BPO deserves is "feeling". The
BPO is the ultimate proof (if proof were needed)
that craft alone does not make art. The music
industry's obsession with German orchestras
is no different than some people's obsession
with German cars. The main difference is that
the latter do not rattle.

dk

On Monday, September 18, 2023 at 1:16:24 PM UTC+2, Dan Koren wrote:
>
> I heard all the orchestras listed, and many others.
> >
Yeah, we know.
You also eat in three different restaurants in three different continents on the same night.
And during those meals you have read all books ever published and at the same time you jerk yourself off, every single penis you have (many).
And then you come here and talk about it.