https://www.macrumors.com/2023/09/05/apple-acquires-bis-records/

On Tue, 05 Sep 2023 06:05:31 -0700, A.L. wrote:

> https://www.macrumors.com/2023/09/05/apple-acquires-bis-records/

Does that mean Apple is going to delete all BIS CDs?

Consolidation is bad for consumers (listeners).

Comments mention that Apple Classical streaming is
restricted to phone only.

Cannot understand why Apple would want to do that unless it is to ultimately
control ALL streaming music worldwide.
They really don’t understand classical music given their past history. They DO obviously understand predatory business practices.

On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 3:58:46 PM UTC-3, Pluted Pup wrote:
> On Tue, 05 Sep 2023 06:05:31 -0700, A.L. wrote:
>
> > https://www.macrumors.com/2023/09/05/apple-acquires-bis-records/
>
> Does that mean Apple is going to delete all BIS CDs?
>
> Consolidation is bad for consumers (listeners).
>
> Comments mention that Apple Classical streaming is
> restricted to phone only.

In agreement with you.

On Wednesday, September 6, 2023 at 9:29:38 AM UTC-7, Jerry wrote:
> Cannot understand why Apple would want to do that unless it is to ultimately
> control ALL streaming music worldwide.
> They really don’t understand classical music given their past history. They DO obviously understand predatory business practices.
> On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 3:58:46 PM UTC-3, Pluted Pup wrote:
> > On Tue, 05 Sep 2023 06:05:31 -0700, A.L. wrote:
> >
> > > https://www.macrumors.com/2023/09/05/apple-acquires-bis-records/
> >
> > Does that mean Apple is going to delete all BIS CDs?
> >
> > Consolidation is bad for consumers (listeners).
> >
> > Comments mention that Apple Classical streaming is
> > restricted to phone only.

On 5 Sep 2023 A.L. wrote:

> https://www.macrumors.com/2023/09/05/apple-acquires-bis-records/

Bad news.
Apple isn't interested in classical music, only in profits.
Goodbye BIS.

Chris

On 9/7/23 7:50 AM, Chris J. wrote:
> On 5 Sep 2023 A.L. wrote:
>
>> https://www.macrumors.com/2023/09/05/apple-acquires-bis-records/
>
> Bad news.
> Apple isn't interested in classical music, only in profits.
> Goodbye BIS.
>
> Chris
>

Not sure about the goodbyes...

My understanding is that they get their Apple Music revenue from the
subscribers' relatively small monthly charges, then must pay royalties
to the "record" companies based on the tracks people listen to.

Granted, the royalties are exceedingly small, but if Apple owns the
recording they save that cost - so I agree about the profit motive.

But now it is to Apple's advantage to keep the BIS catalog, since they
save when its performances are chosen - and more so if the BIS versions
are recommended by the Apple Classical algorithm.

And as a consequence of this theory, maybe BIS would be encouraged to
make additional recordings?

I have many fine BIS CDs and it is obviously an admirable company, so it
is encouraging that it will survive in any form - we are all aware of
the dozens of labels which have folded over the years making their
performances difficult to obtain.

All in all, the embrace of Apple of classical can only help inrease
interest - so that is a good thing! (Although I much prefer Presto
streaming...)

Op donderdag 7 september 2023 om 14:22:25 UTC+2 schreef Notsure01:
> On 9/7/23 7:50 AM, Chris J. wrote:
> > On 5 Sep 2023 A.L. wrote:
> >
> >> https://www.macrumors.com/2023/09/05/apple-acquires-bis-records/
> >
> > Bad news.
> > Apple isn't interested in classical music, only in profits.
> > Goodbye BIS.
> >
> > Chris
> >
> Not sure about the goodbyes...
>
> My understanding is that they get their Apple Music revenue from the
> subscribers' relatively small monthly charges, then must pay royalties
> to the "record" companies based on the tracks people listen to.
>
> Granted, the royalties are exceedingly small, but if Apple owns the
> recording they save that cost - so I agree about the profit motive.
>
> But now it is to Apple's advantage to keep the BIS catalog, since they
> save when its performances are chosen - and more so if the BIS versions
> are recommended by the Apple Classical algorithm.
>
> And as a consequence of this theory, maybe BIS would be encouraged to
> make additional recordings?
>
> I have many fine BIS CDs and it is obviously an admirable company, so it
> is encouraging that it will survive in any form - we are all aware of
> the dozens of labels which have folded over the years making their
> performances difficult to obtain.
>
> All in all, the embrace of Apple of classical can only help inrease
> interest - so that is a good thing! (Although I much prefer Presto
> streaming...)

It always has been BIS's policy to keep all their recordings available. I cannot imagine that his will be Aplle's policy as well.

On 9/7/23 9:57 AM, Gerard wrote:
> Op donderdag 7 september 2023 om 14:22:25 UTC+2 schreef Notsure0
>>
>> I have many fine BIS CDs and it is obviously an admirable company, so it
>> is encouraging that it will survive in any form - we are all aware of
>> the dozens of labels which have folded over the years making their
>> performances difficult to obtain.
>>
>> All in all, the embrace of Apple of classical can only help increase
>> interest - so that is a good thing! (Although I much prefer Presto
>> streaming...)
>
> It always has been BIS's policy to keep all their recordings available. I cannot imagine that his will be Aplle's policy as well.
>

I hope they do - the only cost for Apple could be the disk space - but
BIS does specialize in uncommon works so some recordings may not garner
many of those "Likes"! (Although uneven, I greatly enjoy Suzuki's Bach..)

(And I hope you launch a September WAYLTL soon - it may become one of
the most interesting threads)

Op donderdag 7 september 2023 om 16:30:18 UTC+2 schreef Notsure01:

>
> (And I hope you launch a September WAYLTL soon - it may become one of
> the most interesting threads)

I just did. Thanks for reminding me ;-)

On Thu, 7 Sep 2023 08:22:18 -0400, Notsure01 <docduc1013@aol.com>
wrote:

>But now it is to Apple's advantage to keep the BIS catalog, since they
>save when its performances are chosen - and more so if the BIS versions
>are recommended by the Apple Classical algorithm.

What about the recent BIS releases in SACD format? How will Apple deal
with that as far as streaming is concerned? The blab from Apple's site
about their new service says

Enjoy the highest audio quality available (up to 192 kHz/24-bit Hi-Res
Lossless) and hear classical favorites like never before in spatial
audio, all with zero ads.

I don't think "spatial audio" in this case means SACD type spatial
audio, but Dolby Atmos spatial audio ... or does it?

On Friday, 8 September 2023 at 00:54:27 UTC+10, Mr. Mike wrote:
> On Thu, 7 Sep 2023 08:22:18 -0400, Notsure01 <docdu...aol.com>
> wrote:
> >But now it is to Apple's advantage to keep the BIS catalog, since they
> >save when its performances are chosen - and more so if the BIS versions
> >are recommended by the Apple Classical algorithm.
> What about the recent BIS releases in SACD format? How will Apple deal
> with that as far as streaming is concerned? The blab from Apple's site
> about their new service says
>
> Enjoy the highest audio quality available (up to 192 kHz/24-bit Hi-Res
> Lossless) and hear classical favorites like never before in spatial
> audio, all with zero ads.
>
> I don't think "spatial audio" in this case means SACD type spatial
> audio, but Dolby Atmos spatial audio ... or does it?

The term "classical favorites" should also cause alarm, especially as BIS tended to pursue slightly off-stream repertoire.

Ray Hall, Taree

On 9/7/2023 9:06 PM, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, 8 September 2023 at 00:54:27 UTC+10, Mr. Mike wrote:
>> On Thu, 7 Sep 2023 08:22:18 -0400, Notsure01 <docdu...aol.com>
>> wrote:
>>> But now it is to Apple's advantage to keep the BIS catalog, since they
>>> save when its performances are chosen - and more so if the BIS versions
>>> are recommended by the Apple Classical algorithm.
>> What about the recent BIS releases in SACD format? How will Apple deal
>> with that as far as streaming is concerned? The blab from Apple's site
>> about their new service says
>>
>> Enjoy the highest audio quality available (up to 192 kHz/24-bit Hi-Res
>> Lossless) and hear classical favorites like never before in spatial
>> audio, all with zero ads.
>>
>> I don't think "spatial audio" in this case means SACD type spatial
>> audio, but Dolby Atmos spatial audio ... or does it?
>
> The term "classical favorites" should also cause alarm, especially as BIS tended to pursue slightly off-stream repertoire.
>
> Ray Hall, Taree

Would someone explain to me why Apple would buy Bis, if they intend to bury the BIS catalog, and have no interest in classical music?

On Thursday, September 7, 2023 at 4:30:18 PM UTC+2, Notsure01 wrote:
>
> >
> I hope they do - the only cost for Apple could be the disk space -

Obviously that is one of the first things any manager type eliminates.

Cloud thinkers don't want slow-moving physical inventory.

On 9/7/23 10:03 PM, Frank Berger wrote:
> On 9/7/2023 9:06 PM, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Friday, 8 September 2023 at 00:54:27 UTC+10, Mr. Mike wrote:
>>> On Thu, 7 Sep 2023 08:22:18 -0400, Notsure01 <docdu...aol.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> But now it is to Apple's advantage to keep the BIS catalog, since they
>>>> save when its performances are chosen - and more so if the BIS versions
>>>> are recommended by the Apple Classical algorithm.
>>> What about the recent BIS releases in SACD format? How will Apple deal
>>> with that as far as streaming is concerned? The blab from Apple's site
>>> about their new service says
>>>
>>> Enjoy the highest audio quality available (up to 192 kHz/24-bit Hi-Res
>>> Lossless) and hear classical favorites like never before in spatial
>>> audio, all with zero ads.
>>>
>>> I don't think "spatial audio" in this case means SACD type spatial
>>> audio, but Dolby Atmos spatial audio ... or does it?
>>
>> The term "classical favorites" should also cause alarm, especially as
>> BIS tended to pursue slightly off-stream repertoire.

> Would someone explain to me why Apple would buy Bis, if they intend to
> bury the BIS catalog, and have no interest in classical music?

Indeed. It seems an easy way to provide a deep streaming catalog in
high-quality sound with existing surround mixes easy to convert to
Atmos. Atmos contains 5.1 like that found on SACD but in a different
file type (DD+?).

"Favorites" is just a buzz word to sell Apple Classical. Retaining
subscribers will likely require more than warhorses. The interface and
search functions will be up for discussion!

In article <udfbr1$3g8jd$1@dont-email.me>,
mINE109 <pianoforte109@yahoo.com> wrote:
>It seems an easy way to provide a deep streaming catalog in
>high-quality sound with existing surround mixes easy to convert
>to Atmos.

I would think that, rather than worry about deleting particular
items from the catalog, one might have to contend with the Bis
catalog being available only via Apple....

Currently, streaming music basically works where there are a few
providers who all have "all" of the same music (well, there's some
variety, but...), versus e.g. in the "television streaming" market,
where many people feel a need to subscribe to multiple services so
as to access a variety of shows. And different services might have
completely disjoint catalogs.

(Note that in the current music streaming situation, the providers
have to compete amongst themselves. Whereas in a hypothetical
situation where they all offer different catalogs, that competition
may be blunted....)

Anyway, my son-in-law works for Apple, and he said today that you
guys have nothing to worry about.... I don't necessarily share
his optimism.

On Sep 8, 2023 at 2:59:11 AM EDT, "Herman" <herstx@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Thursday, September 7, 2023 at 4:30:18 PM UTC+2, Notsure01 wrote:
>>
>>>
>> I hope they do - the only cost for Apple could be the disk space -
>
> Obviously that is one of the first things any manager type eliminates.
>
> Cloud thinkers don't want slow-moving physical inventory.

You're not thinking Apple-think.

Apple wanted BIS to add prestige to its fledgling Apple Classical music
streaming, for which it will probably make the entire catalog available, but
not on CD. Apple doesn't believe in CDs. They much prefer streaming.

-Owen

On Sat, 09 Sep 2023 20:13:02 -0700, Owen Hartnett wrote:

> On Sep 8, 2023 at 2:59:11 AM EDT, "Herman"<herstx@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On Thursday, September 7, 2023 at 4:30:18???PM UTC+2, Notsure01 wrote:
> > >
> > > I hope they do - the only cost for Apple could be the disk space -
> >
> > Obviously that is one of the first things any manager type eliminates.
> >
> > Cloud thinkers don't want slow-moving physical inventory.
>
> You're not thinking Apple-think.
>
> Apple wanted BIS to add prestige to its fledgling Apple Classical music
> streaming, for which it will probably make the entire catalog available, but
> not on CD. Apple doesn't believe in CDs. They much prefer streaming.

So you are agreeing with him. Apple hates CDs. Now
what does "buying BIS" mean in these uninformative news
articles? Buying the BIS library or buying BIS? Cause if
Apple bought BIS that means Apple would delete the entire
catalog.

On Sep 10, 2023 at 3:46:19 PM EDT, "Pluted Pup" <plutedpup@outlook.com> wrote:

> On Sat, 09 Sep 2023 20:13:02 -0700, Owen Hartnett wrote:
>
>> On Sep 8, 2023 at 2:59:11 AM EDT, "Herman"<herstx@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thursday, September 7, 2023 at 4:30:18???PM UTC+2, Notsure01 wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I hope they do - the only cost for Apple could be the disk space -
>>>
>>> Obviously that is one of the first things any manager type eliminates.
>>>
>>> Cloud thinkers don't want slow-moving physical inventory.
>>
>> You're not thinking Apple-think.
>>
>> Apple wanted BIS to add prestige to its fledgling Apple Classical music
>> streaming, for which it will probably make the entire catalog available, but
>> not on CD. Apple doesn't believe in CDs. They much prefer streaming.
>
> So you are agreeing with him.

Not sure who I'm agreeing with. I'll just say my statement speaks for itself.

> Apple hates CDs.

Apple was the first to delete a CD player from it's computers. You can still
buy one, and the system software supports it, but there's little talk about
it.

> Now
> what does "buying BIS" mean in these uninformative news
> articles? Buying the BIS library or buying BIS?

Apple buying BIS is like Apple buying Beats. Eventually there will be no more
BIS, if not already, and BIS will be part of the Apple collective.

> Cause if
> Apple bought BIS that means Apple would delete the entire
> catalog.

No. They're going to stream it, as an inducement to get you to subscribe to
Apple Classical. So, if you want BIS disks, I'd buy them now. And I doubt
you're going to hear them on Spotify, unless they're already there.

-Owen

> > Apple hates CDs.
>
> Apple was the first to delete a CD player from it's computers. You can still
> buy one, and the system software supports it, but there's little talk about
> it.

I use external Apple optical drives all the time. I don't
know if Apple still makes them but perhaps forbids
them being stocked in their stores, as useful as they are.

>
> > Now
> > what does "buying BIS" mean in these uninformative news
> > articles? Buying the BIS library or buying BIS?
>
> Apple buying BIS is like Apple buying Beats. Eventually there will be no more
> BIS, if not already, and BIS will be part of the Apple collective.

BIS is a record label, whatever Beats was it wasn't a
record label. BIS discs exist, no matter what happens
to BIS, but there are no Beats label recordings.

A library would be foolish to throw away their BIS
discs upon the vague news of the possibility of
streaming the same thing at some future date.

>
> > Cause if
> > Apple bought BIS that means Apple would delete the entire
> > catalog.
>
> No. They're going to stream it,

So they say, but who's to say what they are going to do
with it? In the reckless consolidation trends by the
richest corporations in the world, they may only buy
it to bury it.

As pointed out by others, Apple Classical is limited
to phone only, although it's my guess they'll fix
that.

> as an inducement to get you to subscribe to
> Apple Classical. So, if you want BIS disks, I'd buy them now. And I doubt
> you're going to hear them on Spotify, unless they're already there.

Too bad I don't like more of what is on BIS, or so
far as I know. Maybe I'll complete my Sibelius
Edition collection soon.

On Sep 13, 2023 at 7:48:29 PM EDT, "Pluted Pup" <plutedpup@outlook.com> wrote:

>>> Apple hates CDs.
>>
>> Apple was the first to delete a CD player from it's computers. You can still
>> buy one, and the system software supports it, but there's little talk about
>> it.
>
> I use external Apple optical drives all the time. I don't
> know if Apple still makes them but perhaps forbids
> them being stocked in their stores, as useful as they are.

Wow! The USB superdrive is still in the catalog! I thought that was dropped
long ago.

For the price, you're better off buying a third party Blu-Ray reader/writer,
which also does CD-rom and DVD

>
>>
>>> Now
>>> what does "buying BIS" mean in these uninformative news
>>> articles? Buying the BIS library or buying BIS?
>>
>> Apple buying BIS is like Apple buying Beats. Eventually there will be no more
>> BIS, if not already, and BIS will be part of the Apple collective.
>
> BIS is a record label, whatever Beats was it wasn't a
> record label. BIS discs exist, no matter what happens
> to BIS, but there are no Beats label recordings.
>
> A library would be foolish to throw away their BIS
> discs upon the vague news of the possibility of
> streaming the same thing at some future date.

I'm really talking about the premise of being able to buy BIS CDs. I think
that part of their business will be shut down.

>
>>
>>> Cause if
>>> Apple bought BIS that means Apple would delete the entire
>>> catalog.
>>
>> No. They're going to stream it,
>
> So they say, but who's to say what they are going to do
> with it? In the reckless consolidation trends by the
> richest corporations in the world, they may only buy
> it to bury it.

Just going on Apple's past behavior and (lack of) ownership of music content.
If you have a CD, you own it, if you just stream it, you don't.
>
> As pointed out by others, Apple Classical is limited
> to phone only, although it's my guess they'll fix
> that.

Probably.

>
>> as an inducement to get you to subscribe to
>> Apple Classical. So, if you want BIS disks, I'd buy them now. And I doubt
>> you're going to hear them on Spotify, unless they're already there.
>
> Too bad I don't like more of what is on BIS, or so
> far as I know. Maybe I'll complete my Sibelius
> Edition collection soon.

Get 'em while you still can.

-Owen

In article <8d7745af-6311-4831-955e-95083b12821fn@googlegroups.com>,
Joe <joe@joemarkley.com> wrote:
>A cynical but convincing take on this purchase:
>https://www.honest-broker.com/p/nobody-will-tell-you-the-ugly-reason

This guy doesn't quite spell it out, but yeah, I think they're going
for the people who just want to listen to "classical music" & maybe
a specific warhorse, but aren't looking to be much choosier than
that. Of course, from that argument, Apple probably should've
bought someone like Naxos. It's been obvious for a long time that
the big platforms try to steer one's listening in more generic
directions via their "suggestions".... (That still doesn't really
answer "why Bis?" Because it's there?)

Den 2023-09-17 skrev Joe <joe@joemarkley.com>:
> On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 9:05:35 AM UTC-4, A.L. wrote:
>> https://www.macrumors.com/2023/09/05/apple-acquires-bis-records/
>
> A cynical but convincing take on this purchase:
> https://www.honest-broker.com/p/nobody-will-tell-you-the-ugly-reason

Picking a nit: The name of the place is Åkersberga. It is located some
30 km north-east of Stockholm.

This thread made me realise I have no idea about BIS' reputation outside
Sweden. Some of you seem to care but how is its produce regarded?

/Martin

On Tue, 12 Sep 2023, Owen Hartnett wrote:

> Apple buying BIS is like Apple buying Beats. Eventually there will be no more
> BIS, if not already, and BIS will be part of the Apple collective.

Is that something like The Borg?

>> Cause if
>> Apple bought BIS that means Apple would delete the entire
>> catalog.
>
> No. They're going to stream it, as an inducement to get you to subscribe to
> Apple Classical. So, if you want BIS disks, I'd buy them now. And I doubt
> you're going to hear them on Spotify, unless they're already there.

I think Presto already has all of it available as FLAC downloads, which
means they can potentially stream it. How does the sound of Apple
streaming compare?
--
Al Eisner

On Sep 18, 2023 at 6:22:42 PM EDT, "Al Eisner" <eisner@slac.stanford.edu>
wrote:

> On Tue, 12 Sep 2023, Owen Hartnett wrote:
>
>
>> Apple buying BIS is like Apple buying Beats. Eventually there will be no more
>> BIS, if not already, and BIS will be part of the Apple collective.
>
> Is that something like The Borg?

I was going to use that reference, but I couldn't make the words sound right,
so I dropped it.

>
>>> Cause if
>>> Apple bought BIS that means Apple would delete the entire
>>> catalog.
>>
>> No. They're going to stream it, as an inducement to get you to subscribe to
>> Apple Classical. So, if you want BIS disks, I'd buy them now. And I doubt
>> you're going to hear them on Spotify, unless they're already there.
>
> I think Presto already has all of it available as FLAC downloads, which
> means they can potentially stream it. How does the sound of Apple
> streaming compare?

Like very good AAC compression, I'll hazard. I don't use Apple streaming
because I don't trust them with my music.

-Owen

"MartinSch��n" wrote in message news:kmrl70F694oU1@mid.individual.net...

Den 2023-09-17 skrev Joe <joe@joemarkley.com>:
>snip<
Picking a nit: The name of the place is �.kersberga. It is located some
30 km north-east of Stockholm.

This thread made me realise I have no idea about BIS' reputation outside
Sweden. Some of you seem to care but how is its produce regarded?

/Martin

I hold BIS SACDs and CDs in high regard. The performances are
generally at least very good and often excellent. The only criticism
that I am aware of is that the sound engineers were producing
recordings that sounded all the same (very good), but did not capture
the character of the venues in which they were recorded.

I have not heard a wide sample of recent recordings, so I
don't know if this opinion has merit these days.

Ed Presson