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arts / rec.music.classical.recordings / WRT Nozze - My apologies to Bob Harper

SubjectAuthor
* WRT Nozze - My apologies to Bob HarperMarc S
`* WRT Nozze - My apologies to Bob HarperMarc S
 `* WRT Nozze - My apologies to Bob Harperwkasimer
  +- WRT Nozze - My apologies to Bob HarperMarc S
  +- WRT Nozze - My apologies to Bob HarperMarc S
  +* WRT Nozze - My apologies to Bob HarperMarc S
  |`- WRT Nozze - My apologies to Bob HarperMarc S
  +* WRT Nozze - My apologies to Bob HarperMarc S
  |`- WRT Nozze - My apologies to Bob HarperMarc S
  `* WRT Nozze - My apologies to Bob HarperMarc S
   `* WRT Nozze - My apologies to Bob HarperMarc S
    `* WRT Nozze - My apologies to Bob HarperMarc S
     `* WRT Nozze - My apologies to Bob HarperMarc S
      `* WRT Nozze - My apologies to Bob HarperAlex Brown
       +- WRT Nozze - My apologies to Bob HarperMarc S
       `* WRT Nozze - My apologies to Bob HarperMarc S
        `- WRT Nozze - My apologies to Bob HarperMarc S

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WRT Nozze - My apologies to Bob Harper

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Subject: WRT Nozze - My apologies to Bob Harper
From: marcs12212@gmail.com (Marc S)
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 by: Marc S - Tue, 3 Oct 2023 09:13 UTC

You were right in considering Kleiber's Nozze as your favourite. It was actually the first one I heard and fell in love with; just tried to question my feeling, to understand what I like and why - now I'm wiser.

Re: WRT Nozze - My apologies to Bob Harper

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Subject: Re: WRT Nozze - My apologies to Bob Harper
From: marcs12212@gmail.com (Marc S)
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 by: Marc S - Tue, 3 Oct 2023 18:49 UTC

Marc S schrieb am Dienstag, 3. Oktober 2023 um 11:14:02 UTC+2:
> You were right in considering Kleiber's Nozze as your favourite. It was actually the first one I heard and fell in love with; just tried to question my feeling, to understand what I like and why - now I'm wiser.

No, I have to take it back.

While I agree that Güden is a great Susanna, and most of the other singers being great as well; the conducting just doesn't work for me.

Re: WRT Nozze - My apologies to Bob Harper

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Subject: Re: WRT Nozze - My apologies to Bob Harper
From: wkasimer@comcast.net (wkasimer)
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 by: wkasimer - Wed, 4 Oct 2023 14:16 UTC

On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 2:49:22 PM UTC-4, Marc S wrote:
> Marc S schrieb am Dienstag, 3. Oktober 2023 um 11:14:02 UTC+2:
> > You were right in considering Kleiber's Nozze as your favourite. It was actually the first one I heard and fell in love with; just tried to question my feeling, to understand what I like and why - now I'm wiser.
> No, I have to take it back.
>
> While I agree that Güden is a great Susanna, and most of the other singers being great as well; the conducting just doesn't work for me.

Poell is a pretty dreadful Almaviva.

Re: WRT Nozze - My apologies to Bob Harper

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Subject: Re: WRT Nozze - My apologies to Bob Harper
From: marcs12212@gmail.com (Marc S)
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 by: Marc S - Wed, 4 Oct 2023 14:47 UTC

wkasimer schrieb am Mittwoch, 4. Oktober 2023 um 16:16:07 UTC+2:
> On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 2:49:22 PM UTC-4, Marc S wrote:
> > Marc S schrieb am Dienstag, 3. Oktober 2023 um 11:14:02 UTC+2:
> > > You were right in considering Kleiber's Nozze as your favourite. It was actually the first one I heard and fell in love with; just tried to question my feeling, to understand what I like and why - now I'm wiser.
> > No, I have to take it back.
> >
> > While I agree that Güden is a great Susanna, and most of the other singers being great as well; the conducting just doesn't work for me.
> Poell is a pretty dreadful Almaviva.

I agree, never liked him - George London is so much better. He seems to be the only count who makes sense to me; all the others (I should probably relisten to some) just don't work imo (Dieskau whom I don't like too much similar to you, is actually quite good in the Fricsay recording I think).

Also similar to you I have problems with Schwarzkopf - much prefer Lisa della Casa.

What's your favourite recording of the nozze?

Re: WRT Nozze - My apologies to Bob Harper

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Subject: Re: WRT Nozze - My apologies to Bob Harper
From: marcs12212@gmail.com (Marc S)
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 by: Marc S - Wed, 4 Oct 2023 14:53 UTC

wkasimer schrieb am Mittwoch, 4. Oktober 2023 um 16:16:07 UTC+2:
> On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 2:49:22 PM UTC-4, Marc S wrote:
> > Marc S schrieb am Dienstag, 3. Oktober 2023 um 11:14:02 UTC+2:
> > > You were right in considering Kleiber's Nozze as your favourite. It was actually the first one I heard and fell in love with; just tried to question my feeling, to understand what I like and why - now I'm wiser.
> > No, I have to take it back.
> >
> > While I agree that Güden is a great Susanna, and most of the other singers being great as well; the conducting just doesn't work for me.
> Poell is a pretty dreadful Almaviva.

BTW I also think you are right wrt Simoneau's voice being too light (not sure if you used the word) for Belmonte; Wunderlich in Jochum's recording is much better (while Köth really just sucks).

And I too have a problem with Gedda.

Re: WRT Nozze - My apologies to Bob Harper

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Subject: Re: WRT Nozze - My apologies to Bob Harper
From: marcs12212@gmail.com (Marc S)
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 by: Marc S - Wed, 4 Oct 2023 15:01 UTC

I think though that London's and Schwarzkopf's voices blend really beautifully in Karajan's Nozze.

Re: WRT Nozze - My apologies to Bob Harper

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Subject: Re: WRT Nozze - My apologies to Bob Harper
From: marcs12212@gmail.com (Marc S)
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 by: Marc S - Wed, 4 Oct 2023 15:03 UTC

Marc S schrieb am Mittwoch, 4. Oktober 2023 um 17:01:41 UTC+2:
> I think though that London's and Schwarzkopf's voices blend really beautifully in Karajan's Nozze.

*blend together

Re: WRT Nozze - My apologies to Bob Harper

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Subject: Re: WRT Nozze - My apologies to Bob Harper
From: marcs12212@gmail.com (Marc S)
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 by: Marc S - Wed, 4 Oct 2023 15:15 UTC

wkasimer schrieb am Mittwoch, 4. Oktober 2023 um 16:16:07 UTC+2:
> On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 2:49:22 PM UTC-4, Marc S wrote:
> > Marc S schrieb am Dienstag, 3. Oktober 2023 um 11:14:02 UTC+2:
> > > You were right in considering Kleiber's Nozze as your favourite. It was actually the first one I heard and fell in love with; just tried to question my feeling, to understand what I like and why - now I'm wiser.
> > No, I have to take it back.
> >
> > While I agree that Güden is a great Susanna, and most of the other singers being great as well; the conducting just doesn't work for me.
> Poell is a pretty dreadful Almaviva.

I have a feeling that Kleiber's Nozze might still be your favourite. It's not just Poell for me, mainly it's Kleiber's accompaniment (too heavy; which may work in DG, but not in Nozze imo - Karajan's orchestral force is big too, but he makes the sound more airy and light).

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Subject: Re: WRT Nozze - My apologies to Bob Harper
From: marcs12212@gmail.com (Marc S)
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 by: Marc S - Fri, 6 Oct 2023 18:28 UTC

otoh Karajan just rushes too often (as in many of his Mozart recordings)... maybe Kleiber is really better (apart from the singers)... Kleiber is also not too heavy throughout, just sometimes maybe (have to relisten)... and his phrasing seems angular and the sound sometimes too harsh (and some wobbly orchestral playing?)... Karajan is not as angular in the phrasing.

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Subject: Re: WRT Nozze - My apologies to Bob Harper
From: marcs12212@gmail.com (Marc S)
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 by: Marc S - Fri, 6 Oct 2023 18:29 UTC

wkasimer schrieb am Mittwoch, 4. Oktober 2023 um 16:16:07 UTC+2:
> On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 2:49:22 PM UTC-4, Marc S wrote:
> > Marc S schrieb am Dienstag, 3. Oktober 2023 um 11:14:02 UTC+2:
> > > You were right in considering Kleiber's Nozze as your favourite. It was actually the first one I heard and fell in love with; just tried to question my feeling, to understand what I like and why - now I'm wiser.
> > No, I have to take it back.
> >
> > While I agree that Güden is a great Susanna, and most of the other singers being great as well; the conducting just doesn't work for me.
> Poell is a pretty dreadful Almaviva.

Gut Schabbes!

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Subject: Re: WRT Nozze - My apologies to Bob Harper
From: marcs12212@gmail.com (Marc S)
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 by: Marc S - Fri, 6 Oct 2023 19:23 UTC

Ya, I just can't take Kleiber's Nozze orchestrally... and because of Kleiber's phrasing sometimes. I don't think he does anything special... it's just... nothing... his accompaniment...

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Subject: Re: WRT Nozze - My apologies to Bob Harper
From: marcs12212@gmail.com (Marc S)
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 by: Marc S - Fri, 6 Oct 2023 19:25 UTC

Marc S schrieb am Freitag, 6. Oktober 2023 um 21:23:52 UTC+2:
> Ya, I just can't take Kleiber's Nozze orchestrally... and because of Kleiber's phrasing sometimes. I don't think he does anything special... it's just... nothing... his accompaniment...

Better than Böhm though... Böhm really sucks (his Nozzes and Cosis and everything else...).

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Subject: Re: WRT Nozze - My apologies to Bob Harper
From: marcs12212@gmail.com (Marc S)
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 by: Marc S - Tue, 10 Oct 2023 20:00 UTC

Guys... my favourite Nozze is Fricsay's...

I just can't get along with Karajan or Kleiber in this piece and in general; and I also really don't like Schwarzkopf and Poell.

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Subject: Re: WRT Nozze - My apologies to Bob Harper
From: adjb@adjb.net (Alex Brown)
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 by: Alex Brown - Mon, 16 Oct 2023 12:22 UTC

On Tuesday, 10 October 2023 at 21:00:46 UTC+1, Marc S wrote:
> Guys... my favourite Nozze is Fricsay's...
>
> I just can't get along with Karajan or Kleiber in this piece and in general; and I also really don't like Schwarzkopf and Poell.

- Böhm (the film's fun too)
- Solti (yes, I know. I was as surprised as you will be)
- Suitner (in German, but every lover of the opera needs to hear this).

That is all.

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Subject: Re: WRT Nozze - My apologies to Bob Harper
From: marcs12212@gmail.com (Marc S)
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 by: Marc S - Wed, 18 Oct 2023 08:53 UTC

Alex Brown schrieb am Montag, 16. Oktober 2023 um 14:22:14 UTC+2:
> On Tuesday, 10 October 2023 at 21:00:46 UTC+1, Marc S wrote:
> > Guys... my favourite Nozze is Fricsay's...
> >
> > I just can't get along with Karajan or Kleiber in this piece and in general; and I also really don't like Schwarzkopf and Poell.
> - Böhm (the film's fun too)

Thanks for the rec; but no, I do not like Böhm at all - be it his different nozzes, different cosis or whatever... I really do not like his way with music in general. Also: I hate Janowitz.

> - Solti (yes, I know. I was as surprised as you will be)

Sorry, but from what I heard... horrible...

> - Suitner (in German, but every lover of the opera needs to hear this).

Yes, it's okay... but not so sure about Berry as Figaro, as well as Suitner who seems to be a bit hmmm stiff or sth...

I think I'd take Haitink's over any of these probably; maybe besides Suitner's... would have to relisten, but imo Fricsay's still is the best.

>
> That is all.

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Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2023 01:55:37 -0700 (PDT)
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Subject: Re: WRT Nozze - My apologies to Bob Harper
From: marcs12212@gmail.com (Marc S)
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 by: Marc S - Wed, 18 Oct 2023 08:55 UTC

WRT Cosi: I think I'll need Krips (even though I hate Waechter) and Jochum... certainly not Suitner... should maybe relisten to Haitink...

Re: WRT Nozze - My apologies to Bob Harper

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Subject: Re: WRT Nozze - My apologies to Bob Harper
From: marcs12212@gmail.com (Marc S)
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 by: Marc S - Sun, 22 Oct 2023 11:20 UTC

Marc S schrieb am Mittwoch, 18. Oktober 2023 um 10:55:40 UTC+2:
> WRT Cosi: I think I'll need Krips (even though I hate Waechter) and Jochum... certainly not Suitner... should maybe relisten to Haitink...

Just here to say I do not like Haitink's Mozart operas... and I'm unsure where I would rank them, but very likely below Karajan's...

Krips' cosi is out of question for me because of Janowitz and Waechter...

So my fav Mozart opera recordings:

Serail: Jochum, Krips (Pearl), Krips (EMI)
Nozze: Fricsay
DG: Krips, Mitropoulos
Cosi: Jochum
Zauberflöte: Ivan Fischer

arts / rec.music.classical.recordings / WRT Nozze - My apologies to Bob Harper

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