https://youtu.be/iWNTLfYOi8w

Thoughts and comments
very much appreciated.

TIA

On 2023-05-04 08:27:43 +0000, Dan Koren said:

> https://youtu.be/iWNTLfYOi8w
>
> Thoughts and comments
> very much appreciated.
>
> TIA

Very smooth, very restrained first movement. He keep tight control over
the level of sound he produces. His huge hands make it sound almost
like a "miniature" piece.

2nd movement - soft, intimate, appropriately dispairing.

Nice transition into the 3rd movement, which flows easily from the
closing note of the 2nd. Again, he keeps it intimate and on the soft
side. There's no crashing or banging. Every note is played with the
same amount of control. He keeps the main theme soft and tender. He
plays soft enough to make you want to hear more. Even the giant octave
runs are controlled and fit within his concept of the piece. When he
plays "larger," as at the return of the main theme, at the repeat he
pulls it back to the level he wants it to be.

In the finale, all the difficult trills are handled with ease, and, of
course, under control.

-Owen

On Thursday, May 4, 2023 at 7:53:32 AM UTC-7, Owen Hartnett wrote:
> On 2023-05-04 08:27:43 +0000, Dan Koren said:
>
> > https://youtu.be/iWNTLfYOi8w
> >
> > Thoughts and comments
> > very much appreciated.
>
> Very smooth, very restrained first
> movement. He keep tight control
> over the level of sound he produces.
> His huge hands make it sound almost
> like a "miniature" piece.

Pletnev's hands are not huge.

Thanks for your comments.

dk

On 2023-05-04 16:46:34 +0000, Dan Koren said:

> On Thursday, May 4, 2023 at 7:53:32 AM UTC-7, Owen Hartnett wrote:
>> On 2023-05-04 08:27:43 +0000, Dan Koren said:>> >
>> https://youtu.be/iWNTLfYOi8w> >> > Thoughts and comments> > very much
>> appreciated.>> Very smooth, very restrained first> movement. He keep
>> tight control> over the level of sound he produces.> His huge hands
>> make it sound almost> like a "miniature" piece.
> Pletnev's hands are not huge.
> Thanks for your comments.

They looked like they were in the video. Perhaps it's just his
virtuosity that makes it look so easy to play.

-Owen

I got to know about him around 1987, I remember buying his first Liszt sonata CD and being bowled over by how different it sounded, I remember saying to a friend that he made the music sound more modern than it is. It's years since I've heard it and I don't know if it would have that effect on me now. For some reason I never heard the Beethoven sonata release until much later.

Some of the early stuff is well worth a listen I think -- there was a a 1979 concert released by Melodyia a couple of years ago, with a Chopin sonata. I like the first Grieg CD too.

I just don't feel in the mood Beethoven, but that may change, and when it does I'll remember to listen to it.

On Thursday, May 4, 2023 at 4:27:46 AM UTC-4, Dan Koren wrote:
> https://youtu.be/iWNTLfYOi8w
>
> Thoughts and comments
> very much appreciated.
>
> TIA

not that impressive..........some smudged notes,not meticulous surprised.

AB
i

AB schrieb am Donnerstag, 4. Mai 2023 um 22:03:40 UTC+2:
> On Thursday, May 4, 2023 at 4:27:46 AM UTC-4, Dan Koren wrote:
> > https://youtu.be/iWNTLfYOi8w
> >
> > Thoughts and comments
> > very much appreciated.
> >
> > TIA
> not that impressive..........some smudged notes,not meticulous surprised.
>
> AB
> i

Hey Arri,

would you be so kind to name me your favourite pianists, violinists, cellists and conductors wrt Bach, Mozart and Schubert - and regarding Schubert maybe also some vocalists? If there are too many, naming some would suffice.

I am asking because your thoughts and recommendations have been quite helpful for me; in some cases (such as with Pletnev) I agree with your taste more than with dk's, and you are also in some way "responsible" for me liking Gould and Lipatti again - although I am yet not sure if I need Lipatti, as I seem to prefer other recordings over his (Gould for example).

On Friday, May 5, 2023 at 3:03:20 AM UTC-4, Marc S wrote:
> AB schrieb am Donnerstag, 4. Mai 2023 um 22:03:40 UTC+2:
> > On Thursday, May 4, 2023 at 4:27:46 AM UTC-4, Dan Koren wrote:
> > > https://youtu.be/iWNTLfYOi8w
> > >
> > > Thoughts and comments
> > > very much appreciated.
> > >
> > > TIA
> > not that impressive..........some smudged notes,not meticulous surprised.
> >
> > AB
> > i
> Hey Arri,
>
> would you be so kind to name me your favourite pianists,

volodos, sokoloff, grosvenor

violinists, ...... hahn mutter, kreisler, heifetz, stern

cellists- fournier, casals, ma

Schubert maybe also some vocalists? janet baker, aksel schiotz

AB

If there are too many, naming some would suffice.
>
> I am asking because your thoughts and recommendations have been quite helpful for me; in some cases (such as with Pletnev) I agree with your taste more than with dk's, and you are also in some way "responsible" for me liking Gould and Lipatti again - although I am yet not sure if I need Lipatti, as I seem to prefer other recordings over his (Gould for example).

On Friday, May 5, 2023 at 6:39:57 PM UTC+1, AB wrote:
> On Friday, May 5, 2023 at 3:03:20 AM UTC-4, Marc S wrote:
> > AB schrieb am Donnerstag, 4. Mai 2023 um 22:03:40 UTC+2:
> > > On Thursday, May 4, 2023 at 4:27:46 AM UTC-4, Dan Koren wrote:
> > > > https://youtu.be/iWNTLfYOi8w
> > > >
> > > > Thoughts and comments
> > > > very much appreciated.
> > > >
> > > > TIA
> > > not that impressive..........some smudged notes,not meticulous surprised.
> > >
> > > AB
> > > i
> > Hey Arri,
> >
> > would you be so kind to name me your favourite pianists,
> volodos, sokoloff, grosvenor
>
> violinists, ...... hahn mutter, kreisler, heifetz, stern
>
>
> cellists- fournier, casals, ma
>
>
> Schubert maybe also some vocalists? janet baker, aksel schiotz
>
> AB
> If there are too many, naming some would suffice.
> >
> > I am asking because your thoughts and recommendations have been quite helpful for me; in some cases (such as with Pletnev) I agree with your taste more than with dk's, and you are also in some way "responsible" for me liking Gould and Lipatti again - although I am yet not sure if I need Lipatti, as I seem to prefer other recordings over his (Gould for example).

I'm going to see Grosvenor on Sunday, so I'll let you know how it goes.

AB schrieb am Freitag, 5. Mai 2023 um 19:39:57 UTC+2:
> On Friday, May 5, 2023 at 3:03:20 AM UTC-4, Marc S wrote:
> > AB schrieb am Donnerstag, 4. Mai 2023 um 22:03:40 UTC+2:
> > > On Thursday, May 4, 2023 at 4:27:46 AM UTC-4, Dan Koren wrote:
> > > > https://youtu.be/iWNTLfYOi8w
> > > >
> > > > Thoughts and comments
> > > > very much appreciated.
> > > >
> > > > TIA
> > > not that impressive..........some smudged notes,not meticulous surprised.
> > >
> > > AB
> > > i
> > Hey Arri,
> >
> > would you be so kind to name me your favourite pianists,
> volodos, sokoloff, grosvenor

Firstly, thanks for your answer.

Hmmm... I have decided against them all (for now at least, maybe I'll find sth I like)... I guess Volodos comes closest, but even with him I don't feel a natural flow very often...

>
> violinists, ...... hahn mutter, kreisler, heifetz, stern

I would agree about Hahn, Kreisler, Heifetz and probably Stern as well... just a thought: I don't think they would match as duo-partners for your favourite pianists.

>
>
> cellists- fournier, casals, ma

Yeah, I guess same for the first two - but Ma? Will have to listen again.

>
>
> Schubert maybe also some vocalists? janet baker, aksel schiotz

I'll check them out.

>
> AB
> If there are too many, naming some would suffice.
> >
> > I am asking because your thoughts and recommendations have been quite helpful for me; in some cases (such as with Pletnev) I agree with your taste more than with dk's, and you are also in some way "responsible" for me liking Gould and Lipatti again - although I am yet not sure if I need Lipatti, as I seem to prefer other recordings over his (Gould for example).

Marc S schrieb am Freitag, 5. Mai 2023 um 21:16:44 UTC+2:
> AB schrieb am Freitag, 5. Mai 2023 um 19:39:57 UTC+2:
> > On Friday, May 5, 2023 at 3:03:20 AM UTC-4, Marc S wrote:
> > > AB schrieb am Donnerstag, 4. Mai 2023 um 22:03:40 UTC+2:
> > > > On Thursday, May 4, 2023 at 4:27:46 AM UTC-4, Dan Koren wrote:
> > > > > https://youtu.be/iWNTLfYOi8w
> > > > >
> > > > > Thoughts and comments
> > > > > very much appreciated.
> > > > >
> > > > > TIA
> > > > not that impressive..........some smudged notes,not meticulous surprised.
> > > >
> > > > AB
> > > > i
> > > Hey Arri,
> > >
> > > would you be so kind to name me your favourite pianists,
> > volodos, sokoloff, grosvenor
> Firstly, thanks for your answer.
>
> Hmmm... I have decided against them all (for now at least, maybe I'll find sth I like)... I guess Volodos comes closest, but even with him I don't feel a natural flow very often...

Guess it also depends on the repertoire one prefers.

> >
> > violinists, ...... hahn mutter, kreisler, heifetz, stern
> I would agree about Hahn, Kreisler, Heifetz and probably Stern as well... just a thought: I don't think they would match as duo-partners for your favourite pianists.
>
> >
> >
> > cellists- fournier, casals, ma
>
> Yeah, I guess same for the first two - but Ma? Will have to listen again.
> >
> >
> > Schubert maybe also some vocalists? janet baker, aksel schiotz
> I'll check them out.
> >
> > AB
> > If there are too many, naming some would suffice.
> > >
> > > I am asking because your thoughts and recommendations have been quite helpful for me; in some cases (such as with Pletnev) I agree with your taste more than with dk's, and you are also in some way "responsible" for me liking Gould and Lipatti again - although I am yet not sure if I need Lipatti, as I seem to prefer other recordings over his (Gould for example).

AB schrieb am Freitag, 5. Mai 2023 um 19:39:57 UTC+2:
> On Friday, May 5, 2023 at 3:03:20 AM UTC-4, Marc S wrote:
> > AB schrieb am Donnerstag, 4. Mai 2023 um 22:03:40 UTC+2:
> > > On Thursday, May 4, 2023 at 4:27:46 AM UTC-4, Dan Koren wrote:
> > > > https://youtu.be/iWNTLfYOi8w
> > > >
> > > > Thoughts and comments
> > > > very much appreciated.
> > > >
> > > > TIA
> > > not that impressive..........some smudged notes,not meticulous surprised.
> > >
> > > AB
> > > i
> > Hey Arri,
> >
> > would you be so kind to name me your favourite pianists,
> volodos, sokoloff, grosvenor
>
> violinists, ...... hahn mutter, kreisler, heifetz, stern

I would add Szeryng (I know that you think of him as boring or sth) and as said: Not so sure abotu Stern; and Mutter... did only hear her Mozart I think, and I didn't like it.

>
>
> cellists- fournier, casals, ma
>
>
> Schubert maybe also some vocalists? janet baker, aksel schiotz
>
> AB
> If there are too many, naming some would suffice.
> >
> > I am asking because your thoughts and recommendations have been quite helpful for me; in some cases (such as with Pletnev) I agree with your taste more than with dk's, and you are also in some way "responsible" for me liking Gould and Lipatti again - although I am yet not sure if I need Lipatti, as I seem to prefer other recordings over his (Gould for example).

AB schrieb am Freitag, 5. Mai 2023 um 19:39:57 UTC+2:
> On Friday, May 5, 2023 at 3:03:20 AM UTC-4, Marc S wrote:
> > AB schrieb am Donnerstag, 4. Mai 2023 um 22:03:40 UTC+2:
> > > On Thursday, May 4, 2023 at 4:27:46 AM UTC-4, Dan Koren wrote:
> > > > https://youtu.be/iWNTLfYOi8w
> > > >
> > > > Thoughts and comments
> > > > very much appreciated.
> > > >
> > > > TIA
> > > not that impressive..........some smudged notes,not meticulous surprised.
> > >
> > > AB
> > > i
> > Hey Arri,
> >
> > would you be so kind to name me your favourite pianists,
> volodos, sokoloff, grosvenor
>
> violinists, ...... hahn mutter, kreisler, heifetz, stern
>
>
> cellists- fournier, casals, ma
>
>
> Schubert maybe also some vocalists? janet baker, aksel schiotz

Baker is horrible... but Schiotz sounds fine from what I'm hearing, need to listen some more. Thanks.

>
> AB

AB schrieb am Freitag, 5. Mai 2023 um 19:39:57 UTC+2:
> On Friday, May 5, 2023 at 3:03:20 AM UTC-4, Marc S wrote:
> > AB schrieb am Donnerstag, 4. Mai 2023 um 22:03:40 UTC+2:
> > > On Thursday, May 4, 2023 at 4:27:46 AM UTC-4, Dan Koren wrote:
> > > > https://youtu.be/iWNTLfYOi8w
> > > >
> > > > Thoughts and comments
> > > > very much appreciated.
> > > >
> > > > TIA
> > > not that impressive..........some smudged notes,not meticulous surprised.
> > >
> > > AB
> > > i
> > Hey Arri,
> >
> > would you be so kind to name me your favourite pianists,
> volodos, sokoloff, grosvenor
>
> violinists, ...... hahn mutter, kreisler, heifetz, stern

Really liking Stern, Zukerman and Rose in 563 (just listened a few minutes) - I remember liking him in the Mozart violin concertos and watching a documentary about him years ago... where he was in China to teach some Chinese to play or sth...

Anyway I need to check him out more - very nice, thanks.

AB schrieb am Freitag, 5. Mai 2023 um 19:39:57 UTC+2:
> On Friday, May 5, 2023 at 3:03:20 AM UTC-4, Marc S wrote:
> > AB schrieb am Donnerstag, 4. Mai 2023 um 22:03:40 UTC+2:
> > > On Thursday, May 4, 2023 at 4:27:46 AM UTC-4, Dan Koren wrote:
> > > > https://youtu.be/iWNTLfYOi8w
> > > >
> > > > Thoughts and comments
> > > > very much appreciated.
> > > >
> > > > TIA
> > > not that impressive..........some smudged notes,not meticulous surprised.
> > >
> > > AB
> > > i
> > Hey Arri,
> >
> > would you be so kind to name me your favourite pianists,
> volodos, sokoloff, grosvenor
>
> violinists, ...... hahn mutter, kreisler, heifetz, stern
>
>
> cellists- fournier, casals, ma
>
>
> Schubert maybe also some vocalists? janet baker, aksel schiotz
>
> AB

Another question please; your favourites for the Schubert trios?

AB schrieb am Freitag, 5. Mai 2023 um 19:39:57 UTC+2:
> On Friday, May 5, 2023 at 3:03:20 AM UTC-4, Marc S wrote:
> > AB schrieb am Donnerstag, 4. Mai 2023 um 22:03:40 UTC+2:
> > > On Thursday, May 4, 2023 at 4:27:46 AM UTC-4, Dan Koren wrote:
> > > > https://youtu.be/iWNTLfYOi8w
> > > >
> > > > Thoughts and comments
> > > > very much appreciated.
> > > >
> > > > TIA
> > > not that impressive..........some smudged notes,not meticulous surprised.
> > >
> > > AB
> > > i
> > Hey Arri,
> >
> > would you be so kind to name me your favourite pianists,
> volodos, sokoloff, grosvenor

Oh my god, just listened to some of Sokolov's Bach again after quite a while... he's probably one of, if not the best Bach pianist imo... I think my taste has changed a bit since I last listened to his Bach... much better than Gould, much more natural... and the tone also seems much more beautiful (would have to compare all the pieces individually ofc which I have not done yet). I was not too fond of Volodos' Bach - similar to his Schubert and Brahms... I really don't know how to put it into words, but... in a way it evokes similar (negative) feelings as Celibidache... just too concerned about texture...

>
> violinists, ...... hahn mutter, kreisler, heifetz, stern

I think I will have to relisten to Milstein and Grumiaux as well... never liked Grumiaux that much except for the Mozart concerti I think (Stern, Zukerman and Rose are much better in 563 imo)... maybe some Bach as well... will have to listen again... and I remember preferring Szeryng's playing Bach's partitas and sonatas to Milstein's (older version).

Do you have any favourites for the Schubert piano trios?

>
>
> cellists- fournier, casals, ma
>
>
> Schubert maybe also some vocalists? janet baker, aksel schiotz
>
> AB
> If there are too many, naming some would suffice.
> >
> > I am asking because your thoughts and recommendations have been quite helpful for me; in some cases (such as with Pletnev) I agree with your taste more than with dk's, and you are also in some way "responsible" for me liking Gould and Lipatti again - although I am yet not sure if I need Lipatti, as I seem to prefer other recordings over his (Gould for example).

AB schrieb am Freitag, 5. Mai 2023 um 19:39:57 UTC+2:
> On Friday, May 5, 2023 at 3:03:20 AM UTC-4, Marc S wrote:
> > AB schrieb am Donnerstag, 4. Mai 2023 um 22:03:40 UTC+2:
> > > On Thursday, May 4, 2023 at 4:27:46 AM UTC-4, Dan Koren wrote:
> > > > https://youtu.be/iWNTLfYOi8w
> > > >
> > > > Thoughts and comments
> > > > very much appreciated.
> > > >
> > > > TIA
> > > not that impressive..........some smudged notes,not meticulous surprised.
> > >
> > > AB
> > > i
> > Hey Arri,
> >
> > would you be so kind to name me your favourite pianists,
> volodos, sokoloff, grosvenor

As explained in the other thread: Yes, Volodos and Sokolov are both great - my bad for the shti I wrote before.

Anyway, maybe I should check Grosvenor out again...

>
> violinists, ...... hahn mutter, kreisler, heifetz, stern
>
>
> cellists- fournier, casals, ma
>
>
> Schubert maybe also some vocalists? janet baker, aksel schiotz
>
> AB
> If there are too many, naming some would suffice.
> >
> > I am asking because your thoughts and recommendations have been quite helpful for me; in some cases (such as with Pletnev) I agree with your taste more than with dk's, and you are also in some way "responsible" for me liking Gould and Lipatti again - although I am yet not sure if I need Lipatti, as I seem to prefer other recordings over his (Gould for example).

Marc S schrieb am Samstag, 6. Mai 2023 um 12:54:26 UTC+2:
> AB schrieb am Freitag, 5. Mai 2023 um 19:39:57 UTC+2:
> > On Friday, May 5, 2023 at 3:03:20 AM UTC-4, Marc S wrote:
> > > AB schrieb am Donnerstag, 4. Mai 2023 um 22:03:40 UTC+2:
> > > > On Thursday, May 4, 2023 at 4:27:46 AM UTC-4, Dan Koren wrote:
> > > > > https://youtu.be/iWNTLfYOi8w
> > > > >
> > > > > Thoughts and comments
> > > > > very much appreciated.
> > > > >
> > > > > TIA
> > > > not that impressive..........some smudged notes,not meticulous surprised.
> > > >
> > > > AB
> > > > i
> > > Hey Arri,
> > >
> > > would you be so kind to name me your favourite pianists,
> > volodos, sokoloff, grosvenor
> Oh my god, just listened to some of Sokolov's Bach again after quite a while... he's probably one of, if not the best Bach pianist imo... I think my taste has changed a bit since I last listened to his Bach... much better than Gould, much more natural... and the tone also seems much more beautiful (would have to compare all the pieces individually ofc which I have not done yet). I was not too fond of Volodos' Bach - similar to his Schubert and Brahms... I really don't know how to put it into words, but... in a way it evokes similar (negative) feelings as Celibidache... just too concerned about texture...

and celibidache too is great... so many great recordings (even some nice Schoenberg)... I was an idiot for saying this. But I think I learned from this.

> >
> > violinists, ...... hahn mutter, kreisler, heifetz, stern
> I think I will have to relisten to Milstein and Grumiaux as well... never liked Grumiaux that much except for the Mozart concerti I think (Stern, Zukerman and Rose are much better in 563 imo)... maybe some Bach as well... will have to listen again... and I remember preferring Szeryng's playing Bach's partitas and sonatas to Milstein's (older version).
>
> Do you have any favourites for the Schubert piano trios?
> >
> >
> > cellists- fournier, casals, ma
> >
> >
> > Schubert maybe also some vocalists? janet baker, aksel schiotz
> >
> > AB
> > If there are too many, naming some would suffice.
> > >
> > > I am asking because your thoughts and recommendations have been quite helpful for me; in some cases (such as with Pletnev) I agree with your taste more than with dk's, and you are also in some way "responsible" for me liking Gould and Lipatti again - although I am yet not sure if I need Lipatti, as I seem to prefer other recordings over his (Gould for example).

On 2023-05-06 10:54:22 +0000, Marc S said:

>>
>> violinists, ...... hahn mutter, kreisler, heifetz, stern
> I think I will have to relisten to Milstein and Grumiaux as well...
> never liked Grumiaux that much except for the Mozart concerti I think
> (Stern, Zukerman and Rose are much better in 563 imo)... maybe some
> Bach as well... will have to listen again... and I remember preferring
> Szeryng's playing Bach's partitas and sonatas to Milstein's (older
> version).
>
> Do you have any favourites for the Schubert piano trios?
>

I'm sure I'll be in the minority here, but I like the Beaux Arts.

-Owen

Owen Hartnett schrieb am Samstag, 6. Mai 2023 um 18:07:40 UTC+2:
> On 2023-05-06 10:54:22 +0000, Marc S said:
>
> >>
> >> violinists, ...... hahn mutter, kreisler, heifetz, stern
> > I think I will have to relisten to Milstein and Grumiaux as well...
> > never liked Grumiaux that much except for the Mozart concerti I think
> > (Stern, Zukerman and Rose are much better in 563 imo)... maybe some
> > Bach as well... will have to listen again... and I remember preferring
> > Szeryng's playing Bach's partitas and sonatas to Milstein's (older
> > version).
> >
> > Do you have any favourites for the Schubert piano trios?
> >
> I'm sure I'll be in the minority here, but I like the Beaux Arts.
>
> -Owen

Thanks, hmmm... I don't like them too much tbh, it feels sort of studied, very unfree... and Pressler's piano playing is horrible and I feel the same about the rest tbh... they play it as if it were Brahms or sth (this does not imply that I think they would be good at Brahms, or that Brahms should be played this way... just a description... also imo too heavy handed generally.

I seem to like Istomin, Stern, Rose and Knushevitsky, Oistrakh, Oborin the most (not sure which I like more)...

then I also like Cortot, Thibaud, Casals in No. 1 (which was recently posted by dan - just as he posted Knu,Ois,Obo in No. 1).

Still need to listen to Suk etc. And also Rubinstein.

Marc S schrieb am Samstag, 6. Mai 2023 um 18:29:46 UTC+2:
> Owen Hartnett schrieb am Samstag, 6. Mai 2023 um 18:07:40 UTC+2:
> > On 2023-05-06 10:54:22 +0000, Marc S said:
> >
> > >>
> > >> violinists, ...... hahn mutter, kreisler, heifetz, stern
> > > I think I will have to relisten to Milstein and Grumiaux as well...
> > > never liked Grumiaux that much except for the Mozart concerti I think
> > > (Stern, Zukerman and Rose are much better in 563 imo)... maybe some
> > > Bach as well... will have to listen again... and I remember preferring
> > > Szeryng's playing Bach's partitas and sonatas to Milstein's (older
> > > version).
> > >
> > > Do you have any favourites for the Schubert piano trios?
> > >
> > I'm sure I'll be in the minority here, but I like the Beaux Arts.
> >
> > -Owen
> Thanks, hmmm... I don't like them too much tbh, it feels sort of studied, very unfree... and Pressler's piano playing is horrible and I feel the same about the rest tbh... they play it as if it were Brahms or sth (this does not imply that I think they would be good at Brahms, or that Brahms should be played this way... just a description... also imo too heavy handed generally.
>
> I seem to like Istomin, Stern, Rose and Knushevitsky, Oistrakh, Oborin the most (not sure which I like more)...
>
> then I also like Cortot, Thibaud, Casals in No. 1 (which was recently posted by dan - just as he posted Knu,Ois,Obo in No. 1).
>
> Still need to listen to Suk etc. And also Rubinstein.

Listening to Schnabel in Trio No. 1... not good... from what I am hearing....