TIA!

On Wednesday, May 10, 2023 at 9:02:00 AM UTC+1, Dan Koren wrote:
> TIA!

Two lost contredanses.

On Wednesday, May 10, 2023 at 9:38:40 AM UTC+1, Mandryka wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 10, 2023 at 9:02:00 AM UTC+1, Dan Koren wrote:
> > TIA!
>
> Two lost contredanses.

Oh my mistake, that’s 565!

Re 465, I have never really found a totally recommendable recording.

The problem is the first movement - how to make the dissonant introduction cohere with the rest?

Ysaÿe quartet are certainly worth a listen though, and I have a bit of a soft spot for the lucid performance by the Hagen here -

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mozart-Haydn-Quartets-Hagen-Quartett/dp/B0014QNGXC

This quartet was published as the last of the ordered sequence. I wonder if that matters.

Yes - listen to some Stravinsky or some good jazz. Liven up your life!

On 2023-05-10 2:01 a.m., Dan Koren wrote:
> TIA!

Try the Mosaïques, an excellent performance from a HIP group that don't
sound wheezy and scratchy at all.

On Wednesday, May 10, 2023 at 6:26:55 AM UTC-7, Graham wrote:
> On 2023-05-10 2:01 a.m., Dan Koren wrote:
> > TIA!
>
> Try the Mosaïques, an excellent
> performance from a HIP group
> that don't sound wheezy and
> scratchy at all.

Thanks! I just listened to the
Mosaïques. While they do not
sound wheezy and scratchy,
they also do not sound like
echt Mozart to my ears.

Any alternatives? IIRC many
ears ago I liked the Amadeus
and the Fine Arts, and I did not
quite like the Juilliard. Are there
any other performance worth
hearing at least once?

Thx

On Thursday, May 11, 2023 at 1:20:46 AM UTC+1, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 10, 2023 at 6:26:55 AM UTC-7, Graham wrote:
> > On 2023-05-10 2:01 a.m., Dan Koren wrote:
> > > TIA!
> >
> > Try the Mosaïques, an excellent
> > performance from a HIP group
> > that don't sound wheezy and
> > scratchy at all.
> Thanks! I just listened to the
> Mosaïques. While they do not
> sound wheezy and scratchy,
> they also do not sound like
> echt Mozart to my ears.
>
> Any alternatives? IIRC many
> ears ago I liked the Amadeus
> and the Fine Arts, and I did not
> quite like the Juilliard. Are there
> any other performance worth
> hearing at least once?
>
> Thx

Jess Quartett Wien

Dan Koren schrieb am Donnerstag, 11. Mai 2023 um 02:20:46 UTC+2:
> On Wednesday, May 10, 2023 at 6:26:55 AM UTC-7, Graham wrote:
> > On 2023-05-10 2:01 a.m., Dan Koren wrote:
> > > TIA!
> >
> > Try the Mosaïques, an excellent
> > performance from a HIP group
> > that don't sound wheezy and
> > scratchy at all.
> Thanks! I just listened to the
> Mosaïques. While they do not
> sound wheezy and scratchy,
> they also do not sound like
> echt Mozart to my ears.
>
> Any alternatives? IIRC many
> ears ago I liked the Amadeus
> and the Fine Arts, and I did not
> quite like the Juilliard. Are there
> any other performance worth
> hearing at least once?
>
> Thx

Not too familiar with this famous piece. I remember also liking Amadeus the most quite a while ago when I was comparing some of Mozart's string chamber music recordings, but I always felt something was not really to my liking (maybe I would view it differently today) and that I should wait a ltitle more before concluding anything... Juilliard and Hagen I didn't like too much, same with Végh (not sure if they recorded 465 though)... Berg and Emerson seemed alright... but I would really have to listen again and get more familiar with this piece.

Dan Koren schrieb am Donnerstag, 11. Mai 2023 um 02:20:46 UTC+2:
> On Wednesday, May 10, 2023 at 6:26:55 AM UTC-7, Graham wrote:
> > On 2023-05-10 2:01 a.m., Dan Koren wrote:
> > > TIA!
> >
> > Try the Mosaïques, an excellent
> > performance from a HIP group
> > that don't sound wheezy and
> > scratchy at all.
> Thanks! I just listened to the
> Mosaïques. While they do not
> sound wheezy and scratchy,
> they also do not sound like
> echt Mozart to my ears.
>
> Any alternatives? IIRC many
> ears ago I liked the Amadeus
> and the Fine Arts, and I did not
> quite like the Juilliard. Are there
> any other performance worth
> hearing at least once?
>
> Thx

Fine Arts seems promising from what I am hearing, will have to listen to it fully later when I have more time...

Marc S schrieb am Donnerstag, 11. Mai 2023 um 08:56:19 UTC+2:
> Dan Koren schrieb am Donnerstag, 11. Mai 2023 um 02:20:46 UTC+2:
> > On Wednesday, May 10, 2023 at 6:26:55 AM UTC-7, Graham wrote:
> > > On 2023-05-10 2:01 a.m., Dan Koren wrote:
> > > > TIA!
> > >
> > > Try the Mosaïques, an excellent
> > > performance from a HIP group
> > > that don't sound wheezy and
> > > scratchy at all.
> > Thanks! I just listened to the
> > Mosaïques. While they do not
> > sound wheezy and scratchy,
> > they also do not sound like
> > echt Mozart to my ears.
> >
> > Any alternatives? IIRC many
> > ears ago I liked the Amadeus
> > and the Fine Arts, and I did not
> > quite like the Juilliard. Are there
> > any other performance worth
> > hearing at least once?
> >
> > Thx
> Not too familiar with this famous piece. I remember also liking Amadeus the most quite a while ago when I was comparing some of Mozart's string chamber music recordings, but I always felt something was not really to my liking (maybe I would view it differently today) and that I should wait a ltitle more before concluding anything... Juilliard and Hagen I didn't like too much, same with Végh (not sure if they recorded 465 though)... Berg and Emerson seemed alright... but I would really have to listen again and get more familiar with this piece.

After listening to Berg and Emerson in Movement 3, I have to say... I think I like Berg much more and I don't seem too fond of Emerson... maybe I should try Hagen again... but Berg seems the best imo (from what my memory recalls)... but as I already implied: I need to get more acquainted with this piece (which I can unfortunately only do by listening, as I can't read the score) and the different ensembles.

On Wednesday, May 10, 2023 at 11:59:30 PM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:
>
> Fine Arts seems promising from what I
> am hearing, will have to listen to it fully
> later when I have more time...

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mWpZWio9dcbL4TWbe0mCwe4uYBYSUnjtI

includes a dead Schubert maiden bonus.

dk

Dan Koren schrieb am Donnerstag, 11. Mai 2023 um 10:04:23 UTC+2:
> On Wednesday, May 10, 2023 at 11:59:30 PM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:
> >
> > Fine Arts seems promising from what I
> > am hearing, will have to listen to it fully
> > later when I have more time...
> https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mWpZWio9dcbL4TWbe0mCwe4uYBYSUnjtI
>
> includes a dead Schubert maiden bonus.
>
> dk

Thanks. From the little I have listened I am quite sure that I like them the most. Hagen is awful. Emerson is better, but I don't like it, Berg is good, but it is not as good as Fine Arts imo. Will have to listen to Amadeus again, before making my final judgement.

Marc S schrieb am Donnerstag, 11. Mai 2023 um 19:09:45 UTC+2:
> Dan Koren schrieb am Donnerstag, 11. Mai 2023 um 10:04:23 UTC+2:
> > On Wednesday, May 10, 2023 at 11:59:30 PM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:
> > >
> > > Fine Arts seems promising from what I
> > > am hearing, will have to listen to it fully
> > > later when I have more time...
> > https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mWpZWio9dcbL4TWbe0mCwe4uYBYSUnjtI
> >
> > includes a dead Schubert maiden bonus.
> >
> > dk
> Thanks. From the little I have listened I am quite sure that I like them the most. Hagen is awful. Emerson is better, but I don't like it, Berg is good, but it is not as good as Fine Arts imo. Will have to listen to Amadeus again, before making my final judgement.

Fine Arts is really great... omg, beautiful. And such a beautiful work btw.

Just looked them up on wikipedia, and read the following about Ralph Evans of the Fine Arts Quartet:

"Ralph Evans (born 1953) is an American violinist, best known as first violinist of the Fine Arts Quartet.

The son of Jewish refugees from Russia and Germany, Evans began his musical studies at the age of five at the Vienna Academy of Music."

Thought it was funny.

On Thursday, May 11, 2023 at 10:28:32 AM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:
>
> Fine Arts is really great... omg, beautiful.
> And such a beautiful work btw.

This may not be the same recording I
heard during the 1960s. AFAIK the
Fine Arts recorded this repertoire
multiple times.

dk

On Thursday, May 11, 2023 at 10:41:12 AM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:
>
> Just looked them up on wikipedia, and read the
> following about Ralph Evans of the Fine Arts Quartet:
>
> "Ralph Evans (born 1953) is an American violinist,
> best known as first violinist of the Fine Arts Quartet.
>
> The son of Jewish refugees from Russia and Germany,
> Evans began his musical studies at the age of five at
> the Vienna Academy of Music."

Evans is/was the second first violinist of the Fine
Arts. The ensemble I heard was the original one
led by Leonard Sorkin with George Sopkin as cellist.

dk

On Thursday, May 11, 2023 at 1:37:22 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Thursday, May 11, 2023 at 10:28:32 AM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:
> >
> > Fine Arts is really great... omg, beautiful.
> > And such a beautiful work btw.
> This may not be the same recording I
> heard during the 1960s. AFAIK the
> Fine Arts recorded this repertoire
> multiple times.

The performance I had ringing in my
ears was one from 1965:

https://www.discogs.com/release/10333839-Mozart-The-Fine-Arts-Quartet-String-Quartets

but it doesn't matter since you seem
to be happy with the one linked to
earlier.

I also heard them live during the 1970s
and 1980s.

dk

On Thursday, May 11, 2023 at 10:37:22 PM UTC+2, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Thursday, May 11, 2023 at 10:28:32 AM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:
> >
> > Fine Arts is really great... omg, beautiful.
> > And such a beautiful work btw.
> This may not be the same recording I
> heard during the 1960s. AFAIK the
> Fine Arts recorded this repertoire
> multiple times.
>
It would appear you don't even listen to the links you're posting?
"Fine Arts Qt" is a franchise.
The current link is of the quartet profiting from the name and reputation of the postwar ensemble.
They have had about twenty different members since the original 4.
I have listened to the first movement, it's just a regular eighties USA string quartet. No great shakes.
It's just the blind leading the blind here.
It would be a better idea to recommend the 1953 Budapest recording.
However, it's useless to pretend there is a single recommendable recording.
One might do better to just go out to a string quartet recital and listen to a live performance.

On Thursday, May 11, 2023 at 2:55:09 PM UTC-7, Herman wrote:
> On Thursday, May 11, 2023 at 10:37:22 PM UTC+2, Dan Koren wrote:
> > On Thursday, May 11, 2023 at 10:28:32 AM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:
> > >
> > > Fine Arts is really great... omg, beautiful.
> > > And such a beautiful work btw.
> >
> > This may not be the same recording I
> > heard during the 1960s. AFAIK the
> > Fine Arts recorded this repertoire
> > multiple times.
>
> It would appear you don't even listen
> to the links you're posting?

It would appear you don't even read
what I write! It also appears the only
purpose of your existence is to attack
people you do not like, and to find every
pretext to do so.

> "Fine Arts Qt" is a franchise.

We all know this.

> The current link is of the quartet
> profiting from the name and
> reputation of the postwar ensemble.

All long running ensembles are
"franchises", including all the top
orchestras. Just to name a few,
the Concertgebouw is still profiting
from the name and the reputation
of the pre-war ensemble, ditto the
BPO and the VPO.

> They have had about twenty different
> members since the original 4.

And so have had Juilliard, Borodin,
and other well known long running
stringtets.

> I have listened to the first movement,
> it's just a regular eighties USA string
> quartet. No great shakes.

Nothing can shake aged Gouda.

> It's just the blind leading the blind here.

It appears you would rather have the idiots
leading the idiots.

> It would be a better idea to recommend
> the 1953 Budapest recording.

You are certainly welcome to do it.

> However, it's useless to pretend there
> is a single recommendable recording.

I certainly did not "recommend" a single
performance. I mentioned two I liked. Do
you understand the distinction between
"liking X" and "recommending X"?

> One might do better to just go out to a
> string quartet recital and listen to a live
> performance.

Certainly. What make you think no one in
r.m.c.r. beside you attends chamber music
concerts?

Buzz off!

dk

On 5/11/2023 4:48 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Thursday, May 11, 2023 at 1:37:22 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
>> On Thursday, May 11, 2023 at 10:28:32 AM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:
>>>
>>> Fine Arts is really great... omg, beautiful.
>>> And such a beautiful work btw.
>> This may not be the same recording I
>> heard during the 1960s. AFAIK the
>> Fine Arts recorded this repertoire
>> multiple times.
>
> The performance I had ringing in my
> ears was one from 1965:
>

1960, unless I am mistaken.

> https://www.discogs.com/release/10333839-Mozart-The-Fine-Arts-Quartet-String-Quartets
>
> but it doesn't matter since you seem
> to be happy with the one linked to
> earlier.
>
> I also heard them live during the 1970s
> and 1980s.
>
> dk

On Thursday, May 11, 2023 at 2:55:09 PM UTC-7, Herman wrote:
>
> It would be a better idea to recommend
> the 1953 Budapest recording.

I prefer Amadeus' 1954 recording:

https://youtu.be/Nwa7Di-NiiE

IMHO the Budapest's sound and
style were better suited to LvB,
Schubert and later composers
than to Mozart and Haydn. For
the latter I prefer Amadeus.

We obviously all have different
ears and hear music and listen
to it differently. Herman does
not rule for everyone else.

dk

On Friday, May 12, 2023 at 12:46:31 AM UTC+2, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Thursday, May 11, 2023 at 2:55:09 PM UTC-7, Herman wrote:
> >
> > It would be a better idea to recommend
> > the 1953 Budapest recording.
> I prefer Amadeus' 1954 recording:
>
there's an Orfeo Salzburg 1956 recording that's better.

Dan Koren schrieb am Donnerstag, 11. Mai 2023 um 22:40:20 UTC+2:
> On Thursday, May 11, 2023 at 10:41:12 AM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:
> >
> > Just looked them up on wikipedia, and read the
> > following about Ralph Evans of the Fine Arts Quartet:
> >
> > "Ralph Evans (born 1953) is an American violinist,
> > best known as first violinist of the Fine Arts Quartet.
> >
> > The son of Jewish refugees from Russia and Germany,
> > Evans began his musical studies at the age of five at
> > the Vienna Academy of Music."
> Evans is/was the second first violinist of the Fine
> Arts. The ensemble I heard was the original one
> led by Leonard Sorkin with George Sopkin as cellist.
>
> dk

I assumed (given the date of the recording) that they were not the same formation as with Schnabel, but I didn't look into it further.

Still need to listen to Amadeus though; just listened a bit and they seemed really promising, and Budapest - as Herman mentioned - seem to be quite good as well.

I'll probably buy one of the three...

Dan Koren schrieb am Donnerstag, 11. Mai 2023 um 22:48:34 UTC+2:
> On Thursday, May 11, 2023 at 1:37:22 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
> > On Thursday, May 11, 2023 at 10:28:32 AM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:
> > >
> > > Fine Arts is really great... omg, beautiful.
> > > And such a beautiful work btw.
> > This may not be the same recording I
> > heard during the 1960s. AFAIK the
> > Fine Arts recorded this repertoire
> > multiple times.
> The performance I had ringing in my
> ears was one from 1965:
>
> https://www.discogs.com/release/10333839-Mozart-The-Fine-Arts-Quartet-String-Quartets
>
> but it doesn't matter since you seem
> to be happy with the one linked to
> earlier.

Yes, but I'd still like to listen to this before I buy one... probably won't happen though.

>
> I also heard them live during the 1970s
> and 1980s.
>
> dk