On Monday, June 5, 2023 at 11:59:46 PM UTC-5, Richard Kaplan wrote:
> On Monday, June 5, 2023 at 8:16:38 PM UTC-5, vhorowitz wrote:
> > On Monday, June 5, 2023 at 3:57:21 PM UTC-5, Pluted Pup wrote:
> > > On Sat, 03 Jun 2023 21:58:30 -0700, mswd...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, June 3, 2023 at 3:38:32釫UR疨M UTC-5, Pluted Pup wrote:
> > > > > Are the CDs itself wrong or is it just the booklet?
> > > >
> > > > I've just ripped all the relevant CDs in the "stereo" box and the one in the Italian " French" box. The timings all match. The Italian box states it has the '64 recording, but the waveforms there match nearly identically the waveforms for the '57 recording in the "stereo" box. Most strange and disappointing, in the "stereo" box, the supposedly later recording is also the same thing, but from a source were the gain is pushed to the edge of clipping. It doesn't speak well of the mastering team that they aren't policing overall levels at all.
> > > >
> > > > I ordered my "stereo" box from JPC and have received this note from them:
> > > >
> > > > "Unfortunately, there have been two production errors in the manufacture of this item:
> > > > - Disc 37 is a duplicate of Disc 40 (1957 LaMer) and not the correct recording (1964 LaMer).
> > > > - On disc 20 (Brahms Requiem) the sound breaks off in track 7 for almost a minute
> > > > Our supplier will send us a replacement for the above mentioned CDs free of charge.
> > > > As soon as we receive the CD麓s, we will send you the replacement discs immediately for further use.
> > > > You do not need to return the item (or the individual defective CD's) to us."
> > > So JPC is better than Amazon.
> > Rich,
> > BMG DID fix the original off pitch disk in the older (15 cd?) Monteux collection, although I’m not sure how easy it was to get a replacement copy in those pre-internet days. I did manage to get it. Ward Marston, who did the transfers, still has no idea how the error made it to the finished disc. Stupidly, nobody figured this out when the later complete Monteux set was issued and they used the wrong (original) screwed up master. I have NOT heard about a replacement for that. I was waiting to hear if it was fixed before buying it, and thus missed the thing altogether since it went OOP. I can’t remember, but did the contents get split over 2 different disks in the later set?
> Yes, I also got the corrected disc in the older edition. The contents (all d'Indy, including a luminous 2nd Symphony) were actually split over THREE discs in the "Complete Album Collection," which was chronological by recording date. I was wondering whether anyone had heard of a correction, but it probably wasn't worth Sony's efforts for the relatively small number of copies. I did notify Andreas Meyer of the problem when the set first came out, but I doubt he was high enough up in the food chain to effect a replacement. They WERE prompt in issuing a corrected disc for the defective item in the Ormandy "Columbia Legacy" set, though, so some things get better....
Has anyone received the corrected discs 20 and 37 for the Ansermet "Stereo Years" box? It's been almost two months since JPC contacted me to say they'd send the discs.

On Saturday, July 8, 2023 at 2:50:22 AM UTC-4, Richard Kaplan wrote:

> Has anyone received the corrected discs 20 and 37 for the Ansermet "Stereo Years" box? It's been almost two months since JPC contacted me to say they'd send the discs.

Hello, I recently ordered the Ansermet set from Presto which I received yesterday. I checked discs 20, 37 & 40 and the reported issues appear to be corrected.

Here's the LaMer timings I got from my CD player -- (which include some seconds of silence at end of each track)
Disc 37 8:30/6:31/7:59 = 23:00 TOTAL
Disc 40 8:16/6:03/7:28 = 21:47 TOTAL

I hope this is helpful.

Rick K

On Sunday, 9 July 2023 at 10:59:22 UTC+10, Rick K wrote:
> On Saturday, July 8, 2023 at 2:50:22 AM UTC-4, Richard Kaplan wrote:
>
> > Has anyone received the corrected discs 20 and 37 for the Ansermet "Stereo Years" box? It's been almost two months since JPC contacted me to say they'd send the discs.
> Hello, I recently ordered the Ansermet set from Presto which I received yesterday. I checked discs 20, 37 & 40 and the reported issues appear to be corrected.
>
> Here's the LaMer timings I got from my CD player -- (which include some seconds of silence at end of each track)
> Disc 37 8:30/6:31/7:59 = 23:00 TOTAL
> Disc 40 8:16/6:03/7:28 = 21:47 TOTAL
>
> I hope this is helpful.
>
> Rick K

Many thanks for this info, although this box would involve too much duplication for me,

Here is an Ansermet documentary (without subtitles) which shows a conductor a touch more human than the oft perceived stern image from most of his photos. An excellent, great, conductor.

https://youtu.be/Naxj8XbT8Q0

Ray Hall, Taree

On Saturday, July 8, 2023 at 9:38:09 PM UTC-4, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, 9 July 2023 at 10:59:22 UTC+10, Rick K wrote:
> > On Saturday, July 8, 2023 at 2:50:22 AM UTC-4, Richard Kaplan wrote:
> >
> > > Has anyone received the corrected discs 20 and 37 for the Ansermet "Stereo Years" box? It's been almost two months since JPC contacted me to say they'd send the discs.
> > Hello, I recently ordered the Ansermet set from Presto which I received yesterday. I checked discs 20, 37 & 40 and the reported issues appear to be corrected.
> >
> > Here's the LaMer timings I got from my CD player -- (which include some seconds of silence at end of each track)
> > Disc 37 8:30/6:31/7:59 = 23:00 TOTAL
> > Disc 40 8:16/6:03/7:28 = 21:47 TOTAL
> >
> > I hope this is helpful.
> >
> > Rick K
> Many thanks for this info, although this box would involve too much duplication for me,

That's very understandable

> Here is an Ansermet documentary (without subtitles) which shows a conductor a touch more human than the oft perceived stern image from most of his photos. An excellent, great, conductor.
>
> https://youtu.be/Naxj8XbT8Q0
>
> Ray Hall, Taree

Thanks for sharing the documentary, which I enjoyed (to the extent possible w/out subtitles...).
;-)
Rick K

On Friday, September 16, 2022 at 11:17:06 PM UTC-4, Al Eisner wrote:
> On Wed, 14 Sep 2022, Frank Berger wrote:
>
> > On 9/14/2022 10:29 PM, Steven de Mena wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 6:29:19 PM UTC-7, Al Eisner wrote:
> >>> On Mon, 12 Sep 2022, MELMOTH wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Steven de Mena a exposé le 12/09/2022 :
> >>>>> The Ansermet lost its production slot for 2022. Both Mono and Stereo
> >>>>> sets
> >>>>> will now be released in 2023.
> >>>>> There was a delay when some new STEREO masters were discovered, and they
> >>>>> wanted to include then in the stereo box.
> >>>>
> >>>> Can you give me the sources of this information ?...
> >>>> Thank you...
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> Not the source, but some supporting information: Presto is now listing
> >>> a release data of Dec. 31, which surely sounds like they mean next year.
> >>> --
> >>> Al Eisner
> >>
> >> No. Presto and many others have had “12/31/22” as the release date for
> >> probably six months. It was just a placeholder date.
> >>
> >
> > I think that's what was meant, more or less, by "it surely sounds like they
> > mean next year."
> Yes, thanks.
> --
> Al Eisner

Amazon reviewers are reporting problems with this set, including sonic issues in the German Requiem, misprints, and apparently, Decca once again has mixed up the 1957 and 1964 La Mer recordings and printed one of them twice! Previously, there was only one, to my knowledge, authentic reissue of the 1964 recording, broadly and similarly paced to the 1950 RCA Toscanini, in the Classic Sound series. Also, does anyone know if a thorough remastering job was done? If anybody has the set, can you enlighten us as to what the booklet says about the mastering/remastering?

DH

On Wednesday, May 31, 2023 at 6:58:47 AM UTC-5, drh8h wrote:
> On Friday, September 16, 2022 at 11:17:06 PM UTC-4, Al Eisner wrote:
> > On Wed, 14 Sep 2022, Frank Berger wrote:
> >
> > > On 9/14/2022 10:29 PM, Steven de Mena wrote:
> > >> On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 6:29:19 PM UTC-7, Al Eisner wrote:
> > >>> On Mon, 12 Sep 2022, MELMOTH wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> Steven de Mena a exposé le 12/09/2022 :
> > >>>>> The Ansermet lost its production slot for 2022. Both Mono and Stereo
> > >>>>> sets
> > >>>>> will now be released in 2023.
> > >>>>> There was a delay when some new STEREO masters were discovered, and they
> > >>>>> wanted to include then in the stereo box.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Can you give me the sources of this information ?...
> > >>>> Thank you...
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>> Not the source, but some supporting information: Presto is now listing
> > >>> a release data of Dec. 31, which surely sounds like they mean next year.
> > >>> --
> > >>> Al Eisner
> > >>
> > >> No. Presto and many others have had “12/31/22” as the release date for
> > >> probably six months. It was just a placeholder date.
> > >>
> > >
> > > I think that's what was meant, more or less, by "it surely sounds like they
> > > mean next year."
> > Yes, thanks.
> > --
> > Al Eisner
> Amazon reviewers are reporting problems with this set, including sonic issues in the German Requiem, misprints, and apparently, Decca once again has mixed up the 1957 and 1964 La Mer recordings and printed one of them twice! Previously, there was only one, to my knowledge, authentic reissue of the 1964 recording, broadly and similarly paced to the 1950 RCA Toscanini, in the Classic Sound series. Also, does anyone know if a thorough remastering job was done? If anybody has the set, can you enlighten us as to what the booklet says about the mastering/remastering?
>
> DH
Francois Hudry's note says, "The conductor's complete stereo recordings are here, with sound taken from the original tapes." The credits say "Digital Mastering: Paschal Byrne & Chris Bernauer."
I haven't listened to the two La Mers yet, but the identical timings in the booklet do not bode well. Does anybody know whether Decca will repress and replace one of the CDs, the way Sony did with one disc from the Ormandy Columbia Legacy set? So far, the sound of what I've listened to is excellent.
Rich Kaplan

On Wednesday, 31 May 2023 at 21:58:47 UTC+10, drh8h wrote:
> On Friday, September 16, 2022 at 11:17:06 PM UTC-4, Al Eisner wrote:
> > On Wed, 14 Sep 2022, Frank Berger wrote:
> >
> > > On 9/14/2022 10:29 PM, Steven de Mena wrote:
> > >> On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 6:29:19 PM UTC-7, Al Eisner wrote:
> > >>> On Mon, 12 Sep 2022, MELMOTH wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> Steven de Mena a exposé le 12/09/2022 :
> > >>>>> The Ansermet lost its production slot for 2022. Both Mono and Stereo
> > >>>>> sets
> > >>>>> will now be released in 2023.
> > >>>>> There was a delay when some new STEREO masters were discovered, and they
> > >>>>> wanted to include then in the stereo box.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Can you give me the sources of this information ?...
> > >>>> Thank you...
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>> Not the source, but some supporting information: Presto is now listing
> > >>> a release data of Dec. 31, which surely sounds like they mean next year.
> > >>> --
> > >>> Al Eisner
> > >>
> > >> No. Presto and many others have had “12/31/22” as the release date for
> > >> probably six months. It was just a placeholder date.
> > >>
> > >
> > > I think that's what was meant, more or less, by "it surely sounds like they
> > > mean next year."
> > Yes, thanks.
> > --
> > Al Eisner
> Amazon reviewers are reporting problems with this set, including sonic issues in the German Requiem, misprints, and apparently, Decca once again has mixed up the 1957 and 1964 La Mer recordings and printed one of them twice! Previously, there was only one, to my knowledge, authentic reissue of the 1964 recording, broadly and similarly paced to the 1950 RCA Toscanini, in the Classic Sound series. Also, does anyone know if a thorough remastering job was done? If anybody has the set, can you enlighten us as to what the booklet says about the mastering/remastering?
>
> DH

I have the Eloquence 2cd (4824975) which has the 1957 Ansermet La Mer. The timing is given as 21'49.

All told, Ansermet recorded 4 La Mers, 1948, 1951, 1957, and 1964. The 1964 La Mer was on a Decca Ovation, and may still be obtainable. Ansermet was very consistent with the timing of the piece, with his first two recordings differing by only 3 secs. He was a mathematician which might explain.

I am just recapping but hope you resolve your issue.

Ray Hall, Taree

On Friday, June 2, 2023 at 1:49:29 AM UTC-5, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, 31 May 2023 at 21:58:47 UTC+10, drh8h wrote:
> > On Friday, September 16, 2022 at 11:17:06 PM UTC-4, Al Eisner wrote:
> > > On Wed, 14 Sep 2022, Frank Berger wrote:
> > >
> > > > On 9/14/2022 10:29 PM, Steven de Mena wrote:
> > > >> On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 6:29:19 PM UTC-7, Al Eisner wrote:
> > > >>> On Mon, 12 Sep 2022, MELMOTH wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> Steven de Mena a exposé le 12/09/2022 :
> > > >>>>> The Ansermet lost its production slot for 2022. Both Mono and Stereo
> > > >>>>> sets
> > > >>>>> will now be released in 2023.
> > > >>>>> There was a delay when some new STEREO masters were discovered, and they
> > > >>>>> wanted to include then in the stereo box.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Can you give me the sources of this information ?...
> > > >>>> Thank you...
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>> Not the source, but some supporting information: Presto is now listing
> > > >>> a release data of Dec. 31, which surely sounds like they mean next year.
> > > >>> --
> > > >>> Al Eisner
> > > >>
> > > >> No. Presto and many others have had “12/31/22” as the release date for
> > > >> probably six months. It was just a placeholder date.
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > I think that's what was meant, more or less, by "it surely sounds like they
> > > > mean next year."
> > > Yes, thanks.
> > > --
> > > Al Eisner
> > Amazon reviewers are reporting problems with this set, including sonic issues in the German Requiem, misprints, and apparently, Decca once again has mixed up the 1957 and 1964 La Mer recordings and printed one of them twice! Previously, there was only one, to my knowledge, authentic reissue of the 1964 recording, broadly and similarly paced to the 1950 RCA Toscanini, in the Classic Sound series. Also, does anyone know if a thorough remastering job was done? If anybody has the set, can you enlighten us as to what the booklet says about the mastering/remastering?
> >
> > DH
> I have the Eloquence 2cd (4824975) which has the 1957 Ansermet La Mer. The timing is given as 21'49.
>
> All told, Ansermet recorded 4 La Mers, 1948, 1951, 1957, and 1964. The 1964 La Mer was on a Decca Ovation, and may still be obtainable. Ansermet was very consistent with the timing of the piece, with his first two recordings differing by only 3 secs. He was a mathematician which might explain.
>
> I am just recapping but hope you resolve your issue.
>
> Ray Hall, Taree
The 1957 version times at 21:39 according to the Japanese Decca Debussy set; the same set has the 1964 version at 22:54. The new set lists both versions at 22:01, which looks to me like the 1957 version with pauses added in. I'll A/B the two in the next day or so and report.

Op vrijdag 2 juni 2023 om 09:00:15 UTC+2 schreef Richard Kaplan:
> On Friday, June 2, 2023 at 1:49:29 AM UTC-5, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, 31 May 2023 at 21:58:47 UTC+10, drh8h wrote:
> > > On Friday, September 16, 2022 at 11:17:06 PM UTC-4, Al Eisner wrote:
> > > > On Wed, 14 Sep 2022, Frank Berger wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On 9/14/2022 10:29 PM, Steven de Mena wrote:
> > > > >> On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 6:29:19 PM UTC-7, Al Eisner wrote:
> > > > >>> On Mon, 12 Sep 2022, MELMOTH wrote:
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>> Steven de Mena a exposé le 12/09/2022 :
> > > > >>>>> The Ansermet lost its production slot for 2022. Both Mono and Stereo
> > > > >>>>> sets
> > > > >>>>> will now be released in 2023.
> > > > >>>>> There was a delay when some new STEREO masters were discovered, and they
> > > > >>>>> wanted to include then in the stereo box.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Can you give me the sources of this information ?...
> > > > >>>> Thank you...
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>> Not the source, but some supporting information: Presto is now listing
> > > > >>> a release data of Dec. 31, which surely sounds like they mean next year.
> > > > >>> --
> > > > >>> Al Eisner
> > > > >>
> > > > >> No. Presto and many others have had “12/31/22” as the release date for
> > > > >> probably six months. It was just a placeholder date.
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > > I think that's what was meant, more or less, by "it surely sounds like they
> > > > > mean next year."
> > > > Yes, thanks.
> > > > --
> > > > Al Eisner
> > > Amazon reviewers are reporting problems with this set, including sonic issues in the German Requiem, misprints, and apparently, Decca once again has mixed up the 1957 and 1964 La Mer recordings and printed one of them twice! Previously, there was only one, to my knowledge, authentic reissue of the 1964 recording, broadly and similarly paced to the 1950 RCA Toscanini, in the Classic Sound series. Also, does anyone know if a thorough remastering job was done? If anybody has the set, can you enlighten us as to what the booklet says about the mastering/remastering?
> > >
> > > DH
> > I have the Eloquence 2cd (4824975) which has the 1957 Ansermet La Mer. The timing is given as 21'49.
> >
> > All told, Ansermet recorded 4 La Mers, 1948, 1951, 1957, and 1964. The 1964 La Mer was on a Decca Ovation, and may still be obtainable. Ansermet was very consistent with the timing of the piece, with his first two recordings differing by only 3 secs. He was a mathematician which might explain.
> >
> > I am just recapping but hope you resolve your issue.
> >
> > Ray Hall, Taree
> The 1957 version times at 21:39 according to the Japanese Decca Debussy set; the same set has the 1964 version at 22:54. The new set lists both versions at 22:01, which looks to me like the 1957 version with pauses added in.. I'll A/B the two in the next day or so and report.

The Italian Eloquence 32 cd box with 'French music' contains only 1 recording of La Mer (but 2 of Pelléas et Mélisande!), listed as the 1964 recording.
Times are: 8:12 - 5:59 - 7:24 (together 21:35).

On Friday, June 2, 2023 at 2:49:29 AM UTC-4, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, 31 May 2023 at 21:58:47 UTC+10, drh8h wrote:
> > On Friday, September 16, 2022 at 11:17:06 PM UTC-4, Al Eisner wrote:
> > > On Wed, 14 Sep 2022, Frank Berger wrote:
> > >
> > > > On 9/14/2022 10:29 PM, Steven de Mena wrote:
> > > >> On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 6:29:19 PM UTC-7, Al Eisner wrote:
> > > >>> On Mon, 12 Sep 2022, MELMOTH wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> Steven de Mena a exposé le 12/09/2022 :
> > > >>>>> The Ansermet lost its production slot for 2022. Both Mono and Stereo
> > > >>>>> sets
> > > >>>>> will now be released in 2023.
> > > >>>>> There was a delay when some new STEREO masters were discovered, and they
> > > >>>>> wanted to include then in the stereo box.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Can you give me the sources of this information ?...
> > > >>>> Thank you...
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>> Not the source, but some supporting information: Presto is now listing
> > > >>> a release data of Dec. 31, which surely sounds like they mean next year.
> > > >>> --
> > > >>> Al Eisner
> > > >>
> > > >> No. Presto and many others have had “12/31/22” as the release date for
> > > >> probably six months. It was just a placeholder date.
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > I think that's what was meant, more or less, by "it surely sounds like they
> > > > mean next year."
> > > Yes, thanks.
> > > --
> > > Al Eisner
> > Amazon reviewers are reporting problems with this set, including sonic issues in the German Requiem, misprints, and apparently, Decca once again has mixed up the 1957 and 1964 La Mer recordings and printed one of them twice! Previously, there was only one, to my knowledge, authentic reissue of the 1964 recording, broadly and similarly paced to the 1950 RCA Toscanini, in the Classic Sound series. Also, does anyone know if a thorough remastering job was done? If anybody has the set, can you enlighten us as to what the booklet says about the mastering/remastering?
> >
> > DH
> I have the Eloquence 2cd (4824975) which has the 1957 Ansermet La Mer. The timing is given as 21'49.
>
> All told, Ansermet recorded 4 La Mers, 1948, 1951, 1957, and 1964. The 1964 La Mer was on a Decca Ovation, and may still be obtainable. Ansermet was very consistent with the timing of the piece, with his first two recordings differing by only 3 secs. He was a mathematician which might explain.
>
> I am just recapping but hope you resolve your issue.
>
> Ray Hall, Taree
I believe the very first CD issue by Decca in the 1980s and the later Ovation your referenced, which have almost identical timings, were the 1957 version mislabeled as 1964. The timings for 1957 were 8:12/5.59/7.24, give or take a couple of seconds. The authentic 1964 version was as far as I know only issued one time on CD, at least in the West, in the Classic Sound series.. Its timings are 8:26/6:30/7:59. The later performance I think is superior in sound and pacing. Ansermet must have been dissatisfied with the earlier version to redo it so soon.

DH

On Thursday, June 1, 2023 at 11:49:29 PM UTC-7, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, 31 May 2023 at 21:58:47 UTC+10, drh8h wrote:
> > On Friday, September 16, 2022 at 11:17:06 PM UTC-4, Al Eisner wrote:
> > > On Wed, 14 Sep 2022, Frank Berger wrote:
> > >
> > > > On 9/14/2022 10:29 PM, Steven de Mena wrote:
> > > >> On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 6:29:19 PM UTC-7, Al Eisner wrote:
> > > >>> On Mon, 12 Sep 2022, MELMOTH wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> Steven de Mena a exposé le 12/09/2022 :
> > > >>>>> The Ansermet lost its production slot for 2022. Both Mono and Stereo
> > > >>>>> sets
> > > >>>>> will now be released in 2023.
> > > >>>>> There was a delay when some new STEREO masters were discovered, and they
> > > >>>>> wanted to include then in the stereo box.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Can you give me the sources of this information ?...
> > > >>>> Thank you...
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>> Not the source, but some supporting information: Presto is now listing
> > > >>> a release data of Dec. 31, which surely sounds like they mean next year.
> > > >>> --
> > > >>> Al Eisner
> > > >>
> > > >> No. Presto and many others have had “12/31/22” as the release date for
> > > >> probably six months. It was just a placeholder date.
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > I think that's what was meant, more or less, by "it surely sounds like they
> > > > mean next year."
> > > Yes, thanks.
> > > --
> > > Al Eisner
> > Amazon reviewers are reporting problems with this set, including sonic issues in the German Requiem, misprints, and apparently, Decca once again has mixed up the 1957 and 1964 La Mer recordings and printed one of them twice! Previously, there was only one, to my knowledge, authentic reissue of the 1964 recording, broadly and similarly paced to the 1950 RCA Toscanini, in the Classic Sound series. Also, does anyone know if a thorough remastering job was done? If anybody has the set, can you enlighten us as to what the booklet says about the mastering/remastering?
> >
> > DH
> I have the Eloquence 2cd (4824975) which has the 1957 Ansermet La Mer. The timing is given as 21'49.
>
> All told, Ansermet recorded 4 La Mers, 1948, 1951, 1957, and 1964. The 1964 La Mer was on a Decca Ovation, and may still be obtainable. Ansermet was very consistent with the timing of the piece, with his first two recordings differing by only 3 secs. He was a mathematician which might explain.

Wasn't Monteux also like that?

On Thursday, June 1, 2023 at 11:49:29 PM UTC-7, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, 31 May 2023 at 21:58:47 UTC+10, drh8h wrote:
> > On Friday, September 16, 2022 at 11:17:06 PM UTC-4, Al Eisner wrote:
> > > On Wed, 14 Sep 2022, Frank Berger wrote:
> > >
> > > > On 9/14/2022 10:29 PM, Steven de Mena wrote:
> > > >> On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 6:29:19 PM UTC-7, Al Eisner wrote:
> > > >>> On Mon, 12 Sep 2022, MELMOTH wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> Steven de Mena a exposé le 12/09/2022 :
> > > >>>>> The Ansermet lost its production slot for 2022. Both Mono and Stereo
> > > >>>>> sets
> > > >>>>> will now be released in 2023.
> > > >>>>> There was a delay when some new STEREO masters were discovered, and they
> > > >>>>> wanted to include then in the stereo box.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Can you give me the sources of this information ?...
> > > >>>> Thank you...
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>> Not the source, but some supporting information: Presto is now listing
> > > >>> a release data of Dec. 31, which surely sounds like they mean next year.
> > > >>> --
> > > >>> Al Eisner
> > > >>
> > > >> No. Presto and many others have had “12/31/22” as the release date for
> > > >> probably six months. It was just a placeholder date.
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > I think that's what was meant, more or less, by "it surely sounds like they
> > > > mean next year."
> > > Yes, thanks.
> > > --
> > > Al Eisner
> > Amazon reviewers are reporting problems with this set, including sonic issues in the German Requiem, misprints, and apparently, Decca once again has mixed up the 1957 and 1964 La Mer recordings and printed one of them twice! Previously, there was only one, to my knowledge, authentic reissue of the 1964 recording, broadly and similarly paced to the 1950 RCA Toscanini, in the Classic Sound series. Also, does anyone know if a thorough remastering job was done? If anybody has the set, can you enlighten us as to what the booklet says about the mastering/remastering?
> >
> > DH
> I have the Eloquence 2cd (4824975) which has the 1957 Ansermet La Mer. The timing is given as 21'49.
>
> All told, Ansermet recorded 4 La Mers, 1948, 1951, 1957, and 1964. The 1964 La Mer was on a Decca Ovation, and may still be obtainable. Ansermet was very consistent with the timing of the piece, with his first two recordings differing by only 3 secs. He was a mathematician which might explain.

Concerning being "...very consistent with the timing of the piece...", was Monteux also like that?

On Thursday, June 1, 2023 at 11:49:29 PM UTC-7, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, 31 May 2023 at 21:58:47 UTC+10, drh8h wrote:
> > On Friday, September 16, 2022 at 11:17:06 PM UTC-4, Al Eisner wrote:
> > > On Wed, 14 Sep 2022, Frank Berger wrote:
> > >
> > > > On 9/14/2022 10:29 PM, Steven de Mena wrote:
> > > >> On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 6:29:19 PM UTC-7, Al Eisner wrote:
> > > >>> On Mon, 12 Sep 2022, MELMOTH wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> Steven de Mena a exposé le 12/09/2022 :
> > > >>>>> The Ansermet lost its production slot for 2022. Both Mono and Stereo
> > > >>>>> sets
> > > >>>>> will now be released in 2023.
> > > >>>>> There was a delay when some new STEREO masters were discovered, and they
> > > >>>>> wanted to include then in the stereo box.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Can you give me the sources of this information ?...
> > > >>>> Thank you...
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>> Not the source, but some supporting information: Presto is now listing
> > > >>> a release data of Dec. 31, which surely sounds like they mean next year.
> > > >>> --
> > > >>> Al Eisner
> > > >>
> > > >> No. Presto and many others have had “12/31/22” as the release date for
> > > >> probably six months. It was just a placeholder date.
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > I think that's what was meant, more or less, by "it surely sounds like they
> > > > mean next year."
> > > Yes, thanks.
> > > --
> > > Al Eisner
> > Amazon reviewers are reporting problems with this set, including sonic issues in the German Requiem, misprints, and apparently, Decca once again has mixed up the 1957 and 1964 La Mer recordings and printed one of them twice! Previously, there was only one, to my knowledge, authentic reissue of the 1964 recording, broadly and similarly paced to the 1950 RCA Toscanini, in the Classic Sound series. Also, does anyone know if a thorough remastering job was done? If anybody has the set, can you enlighten us as to what the booklet says about the mastering/remastering?
> >
> > DH
> I have the Eloquence 2cd (4824975) which has the 1957 Ansermet La Mer. The timing is given as 21'49.
>
> All told, Ansermet recorded 4 La Mers, 1948, 1951, 1957, and 1964. The 1964 La Mer was on a Decca Ovation, and may still be obtainable. Ansermet was very consistent with the timing of the piece, with his first two recordings differing by only 3 secs...

Concerning being "...very consistent with the timing of the piece...", wasn't Monteux also like that?

On Fri, 02 Jun 2023 00:00:12 -0700, Richard Kaplan wrote:

> On Friday, June 2, 2023 at 1:49:29???AM UTC-5, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, 31 May 2023 at 21:58:47 UTC+10, drh8h wrote:
> > > On Friday, September 16, 2022 at 11:17:06???PM UTC-4, Al Eisner wrote:
> > > > On Wed, 14 Sep 2022, Frank Berger wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On 9/14/2022 10:29 PM, Steven de Mena wrote:
> > > > > > On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 6:29:19 PM UTC-7, Al Eisner wrote:
> > > > > > > On Mon, 12 Sep 2022, MELMOTH wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Steven de Mena a exposé le 12/09/2022 :
> > > > > > > > > The Ansermet lost its production slot for 2022. Both Mono and Stereo
> > > > > > > > > sets
> > > > > > > > > will now be released in 2023.
> > > > > > > > > There was a delay when some new STEREO masters were discovered, and they
> > > > > > > > > wanted to include then in the stereo box.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Can you give me the sources of this information ?...
> > > > > > > > Thank you...
> > > > > > > Not the source, but some supporting information: Presto is now listing
> > > > > > > a release data of Dec. 31, which surely sounds like they mean next year.
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > Al Eisner
> > > > > >
> > > > > > No. Presto and many others have had "12/31/22" as the release date for
> > > > > > probably six months. It was just a placeholder date.
> > > > >
> > > > > I think that's what was meant, more or less, by "it surely sounds like they
> > > > > mean next year."
> > > > Yes, thanks.
> > > > --
> > > > Al Eisner
> > > Amazon reviewers are reporting problems with this set, including sonic issues in the German Requiem, misprints, and apparently, Decca once again has mixed up the 1957 and 1964 La Mer recordings and printed one of them twice! Previously, there was only one, to my knowledge, authentic reissue of the 1964 recording, broadly and similarly paced to the 1950 RCA Toscanini, in the Classic Sound series. Also, does anyone know if a thorough remastering job was done? If anybody has the set, can you enlighten us as to what the booklet says about the mastering/remastering?
> > >
> > > DH
> > I have the Eloquence 2cd (4824975) which has the 1957 Ansermet La Mer. The timing is given as 21'49.
> >
> > All told, Ansermet recorded 4 La Mers, 1948, 1951, 1957, and 1964. The 1964 La Mer was on a Decca Ovation, and may still be obtainable. Ansermet was very consistent with the timing of the piece, with his first two recordings differing by only 3 secs. He was a mathematician which might explain.
> >
> > I am just recapping but hope you resolve your issue.
> >
> > Ray Hall, Taree
> The 1957 version times at 21:39 according to the Japanese Decca Debussy set; the same set has the 1964 version at 22:54. The new set lists both versions at 22:01, which looks to me like the 1957 version with pauses added in. I'll A/B the two in the next day or so and report.

Are the CDs itself wrong or is it just the booklet?

On Saturday, June 3, 2023 at 3:38:32 PM UTC-5, Pluted Pup wrote:
> Are the CDs itself wrong or is it just the booklet?

I've just ripped all the relevant CDs in the "stereo" box and the one in the Italian " French" box. The timings all match. The Italian box states it has the '64 recording, but the waveforms there match nearly identically the waveforms for the '57 recording in the "stereo" box. Most strange and disappointing, in the "stereo" box, the supposedly later recording is also the same thing, but from a source were the gain is pushed to the edge of clipping. It doesn't speak well of the mastering team that they aren't policing overall levels at all.

I ordered my "stereo" box from JPC and have received this note from them:

"Unfortunately, there have been two production errors in the manufacture of this item:
- Disc 37 is a duplicate of Disc 40 (1957 LaMer) and not the correct recording (1964 LaMer).
- On disc 20 (Brahms Requiem) the sound breaks off in track 7 for almost a minute
Our supplier will send us a replacement for the above mentioned CDs free of charge.
As soon as we receive the CD´s, we will send you the replacement discs immediately for further use.
You do not need to return the item (or the individual defective CD's) to us.."

On Saturday, June 3, 2023 at 11:58:33 PM UTC-5, mswd...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, June 3, 2023 at 3:38:32 PM UTC-5, Pluted Pup wrote:
> > Are the CDs itself wrong or is it just the booklet?
> I've just ripped all the relevant CDs in the "stereo" box and the one in the Italian " French" box. The timings all match. The Italian box states it has the '64 recording, but the waveforms there match nearly identically the waveforms for the '57 recording in the "stereo" box. Most strange and disappointing, in the "stereo" box, the supposedly later recording is also the same thing, but from a source were the gain is pushed to the edge of clipping. It doesn't speak well of the mastering team that they aren't policing overall levels at all.
>
> I ordered my "stereo" box from JPC and have received this note from them:
>
> "Unfortunately, there have been two production errors in the manufacture of this item:
> - Disc 37 is a duplicate of Disc 40 (1957 LaMer) and not the correct recording (1964 LaMer).
> - On disc 20 (Brahms Requiem) the sound breaks off in track 7 for almost a minute
> Our supplier will send us a replacement for the above mentioned CDs free of charge.
> As soon as we receive the CD´s, we will send you the replacement discs immediately for further use.
> You do not need to return the item (or the individual defective CD's) to us."
I just confirmed by A/B listening that the two versions of La Mer on CDs 37 and 40 are both the 1957 version. What do I have to do to get Decca to send me the correct discs 20 and 37?
Rich

On Sunday, June 4, 2023 at 1:26:36 AM UTC-5, Richard Kaplan wrote:

> I just confirmed by A/B listening that the two versions of La Mer on CDs 37 and 40 are both the 1957 version. What do I have to do to get Decca to send me the correct discs 20 and 37?
> Rich

Sorry- unlike the Ormandy mono box where Sony reps took requests directly, all I know is that JPC should take care of my needs this time. Anyone else got any info?

On Sunday, June 4, 2023 at 1:41:18 AM UTC-5, mswd...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, June 4, 2023 at 1:26:36 AM UTC-5, Richard Kaplan wrote:
>
> > I just confirmed by A/B listening that the two versions of La Mer on CDs 37 and 40 are both the 1957 version. What do I have to do to get Decca to send me the correct discs 20 and 37?
> > Rich
> Sorry- unlike the Ormandy mono box where Sony reps took requests directly, all I know is that JPC should take care of my needs this time. Anyone else got any info?
I just found JPC's e-mail in my spam folder--they will send the two replacement CDs as soon as they get them.
Now, what about the d'Indy items in RCA's Monteux box that were mastered a half-step low? Did Sony ever fix this?
Rich

On Sat, 03 Jun 2023 21:58:30 -0700, mswd...@gmail.com wrote:

> On Saturday, June 3, 2023 at 3:38:32âEUR¯PM UTC-5, Pluted Pup wrote:
> > Are the CDs itself wrong or is it just the booklet?
>
> I've just ripped all the relevant CDs in the "stereo" box and the one in the Italian " French" box. The timings all match. The Italian box states it has the '64 recording, but the waveforms there match nearly identically the waveforms for the '57 recording in the "stereo" box. Most strange and disappointing, in the "stereo" box, the supposedly later recording is also the same thing, but from a source were the gain is pushed to the edge of clipping. It doesn't speak well of the mastering team that they aren't policing overall levels at all.
>
> I ordered my "stereo" box from JPC and have received this note from them:
>
> "Unfortunately, there have been two production errors in the manufacture of this item:
> - Disc 37 is a duplicate of Disc 40 (1957 LaMer) and not the correct recording (1964 LaMer).
> - On disc 20 (Brahms Requiem) the sound breaks off in track 7 for almost a minute
> Our supplier will send us a replacement for the above mentioned CDs free of charge.
> As soon as we receive the CD´s, we will send you the replacement discs immediately for further use.
> You do not need to return the item (or the individual defective CD's) to us."

So JPC is better than Amazon.

On Monday, June 5, 2023 at 3:57:21 PM UTC-5, Pluted Pup wrote:
> On Sat, 03 Jun 2023 21:58:30 -0700, mswd...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Saturday, June 3, 2023 at 3:38:32釫UR疨M UTC-5, Pluted Pup wrote:
> > > Are the CDs itself wrong or is it just the booklet?
> >
> > I've just ripped all the relevant CDs in the "stereo" box and the one in the Italian " French" box. The timings all match. The Italian box states it has the '64 recording, but the waveforms there match nearly identically the waveforms for the '57 recording in the "stereo" box. Most strange and disappointing, in the "stereo" box, the supposedly later recording is also the same thing, but from a source were the gain is pushed to the edge of clipping. It doesn't speak well of the mastering team that they aren't policing overall levels at all.
> >
> > I ordered my "stereo" box from JPC and have received this note from them:
> >
> > "Unfortunately, there have been two production errors in the manufacture of this item:
> > - Disc 37 is a duplicate of Disc 40 (1957 LaMer) and not the correct recording (1964 LaMer).
> > - On disc 20 (Brahms Requiem) the sound breaks off in track 7 for almost a minute
> > Our supplier will send us a replacement for the above mentioned CDs free of charge.
> > As soon as we receive the CD麓s, we will send you the replacement discs immediately for further use.
> > You do not need to return the item (or the individual defective CD's) to us."
> So JPC is better than Amazon.

Rich,
BMG DID fix the original off pitch disk in the older (15 cd?) Monteux collection, although I’m not sure how easy it was to get a replacement copy in those pre-internet days. I did manage to get it. Ward Marston, who did the transfers, still has no idea how the error made it to the finished disc. Stupidly, nobody figured this out when the later complete Monteux set was issued and they used the wrong (original) screwed up master. I have NOT heard about a replacement for that. I was waiting to hear if it was fixed before buying it, and thus missed the thing altogether since it went OOP. I can’t remember, but did the contents get split over 2 different disks in the later set?

On Monday, June 5, 2023 at 8:16:38 PM UTC-5, vhorowitz wrote:
> On Monday, June 5, 2023 at 3:57:21 PM UTC-5, Pluted Pup wrote:
> > On Sat, 03 Jun 2023 21:58:30 -0700, mswd...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Saturday, June 3, 2023 at 3:38:32釫UR疨M UTC-5, Pluted Pup wrote:
> > > > Are the CDs itself wrong or is it just the booklet?
> > >
> > > I've just ripped all the relevant CDs in the "stereo" box and the one in the Italian " French" box. The timings all match. The Italian box states it has the '64 recording, but the waveforms there match nearly identically the waveforms for the '57 recording in the "stereo" box. Most strange and disappointing, in the "stereo" box, the supposedly later recording is also the same thing, but from a source were the gain is pushed to the edge of clipping. It doesn't speak well of the mastering team that they aren't policing overall levels at all.
> > >
> > > I ordered my "stereo" box from JPC and have received this note from them:
> > >
> > > "Unfortunately, there have been two production errors in the manufacture of this item:
> > > - Disc 37 is a duplicate of Disc 40 (1957 LaMer) and not the correct recording (1964 LaMer).
> > > - On disc 20 (Brahms Requiem) the sound breaks off in track 7 for almost a minute
> > > Our supplier will send us a replacement for the above mentioned CDs free of charge.
> > > As soon as we receive the CD麓s, we will send you the replacement discs immediately for further use.
> > > You do not need to return the item (or the individual defective CD's) to us."
> > So JPC is better than Amazon.
> Rich,
> BMG DID fix the original off pitch disk in the older (15 cd?) Monteux collection, although I’m not sure how easy it was to get a replacement copy in those pre-internet days. I did manage to get it. Ward Marston, who did the transfers, still has no idea how the error made it to the finished disc. Stupidly, nobody figured this out when the later complete Monteux set was issued and they used the wrong (original) screwed up master. I have NOT heard about a replacement for that. I was waiting to hear if it was fixed before buying it, and thus missed the thing altogether since it went OOP. I can’t remember, but did the contents get split over 2 different disks in the later set?
Yes, I also got the corrected disc in the older edition. The contents (all d'Indy, including a luminous 2nd Symphony) were actually split over THREE discs in the "Complete Album Collection," which was chronological by recording date. I was wondering whether anyone had heard of a correction, but it probably wasn't worth Sony's efforts for the relatively small number of copies. I did notify Andreas Meyer of the problem when the set first came out, but I doubt he was high enough up in the food chain to effect a replacement.. They WERE prompt in issuing a corrected disc for the defective item in the Ormandy "Columbia Legacy" set, though, so some things get better....