https://youtu.be/7oPQ_ARlziY

Dan Koren schrieb am Samstag, 17. Juni 2023 um 07:36:36 UTC+2:
> https://youtu.be/7oPQ_ARlziY

You know, just listening to bits of it, I get the feeling that maybe while I could not play the whole concerto after a year of teaching myself how to play piano, I would still do many things better than this guy...

If he was a great musician, as purported in the comments, he would have the decency not to assault people with his crappy Mozart... but as said in another thread: People these days - young or old - have no shame; be it 90 yo Menahem Pressler fucking up Mozart, 51 yo Currentzis fucking up Mozart or 41 yo Lang Lang fucking up Mozart or the other 99+% who love to fuck up Mozart... and then they even make people pay for this...

I wonder... the recital... was it about Mozart? Or was it about Pressler and his ego?

Where is the moshiach to end this madness?

On Friday, June 16, 2023 at 10:57:03 PM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:
> Dan Koren schrieb am Samstag, 17. Juni 2023 um 07:36:36 UTC+2:
> > https://youtu.be/7oPQ_ARlziY
>
> You know, just listening to bits of it, I get the
> feeling that maybe while I could not play the
> whole concerto after a year of teaching myself
> how to play piano, I would still do many things
> better than this guy...

You are really clueless about piano performance. To
play like this AT 90 is nothing shourt of miraculous.

If you believe one year of practice can bring one
to this level you are totally AI (arrogant and
ignorant).

> If he was a great musician, as purported in the
> comments, he would have the decency not to
> assault people with his crappy Mozart... but as
> said in another thread: People these days - young
> or old - have no shame; be it 90 yo Menahem Pressler

Here is Pressler at 91: https://youtu.be/QeRMPBXiW2E

> fucking up Mozart, 51 yo Currentzis fucking up Mozart
> or 41 yo Lang Lang fucking up Mozart or the other 99+%
> who love to fuck up Mozart... and then they even make
> people pay for this...

No one forced his audience to buy tickets.

As to the f**king part, he actually had a better
looking than Mozart girlfriend during his 90s:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annabelle_Whitestone

May you do as well in your old age as Pressler
or Rubinstein.

> I wonder... the recital... was it about Mozart?
> Or was it about Pressler and his ego?

ROTFL !!!

dk

Dan Koren schrieb am Samstag, 17. Juni 2023 um 08:26:54 UTC+2:
> On Friday, June 16, 2023 at 10:57:03 PM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:
> > Dan Koren schrieb am Samstag, 17. Juni 2023 um 07:36:36 UTC+2:
> > > https://youtu.be/7oPQ_ARlziY
> >
> > You know, just listening to bits of it, I get the
> > feeling that maybe while I could not play the
> > whole concerto after a year of teaching myself
> > how to play piano, I would still do many things
> > better than this guy...
> You are really clueless about piano performance. To
> play like this AT 90 is nothing shourt of miraculous.
>

Seems you are the one who is really clueless about music... I am not bringing in any extra-musical factors to make this performance palatable. I don't care how old he is, his playing just sucks.

> If you believe one year of practice can bring one
> to this level you are totally AI (arrogant and
> ignorant).

Read what I said; I said that I am certain that I will get parts better than he did - wrt phrasing and also touch etc. So wrt these parts, I will not be just "on his level", but "above his level". Your lack in reading comprehension is just proof that you are AI; and if you really don't think there are people on this earth capable of doing so, you are even more AI...

> > If he was a great musician, as purported in the
> > comments, he would have the decency not to
> > assault people with his crappy Mozart... but as
> > said in another thread: People these days - young
> > or old - have no shame; be it 90 yo Menahem Pressler
> Here is Pressler at 91: https://youtu.be/QeRMPBXiW2E

No, thank you. It seems you are more concerned with his age than with the music he plays... so it's not Pressler playing Mozart or Schubert, but "here check out Pressler at 91"...

> > fucking up Mozart, 51 yo Currentzis fucking up Mozart
> > or 41 yo Lang Lang fucking up Mozart or the other 99+%
> > who love to fuck up Mozart... and then they even make
> > people pay for this...
> No one forced his audience to buy tickets.

This is not my point, the point is that people have the chutzpah to ask people for monkey for this... Currentzis shows about as much self-reflection on his idiocy, as you do wrt yours ;) "Pleyel"...

>
> As to the f**king part, he actually had a better
> looking than Mozart girlfriend during his 90s:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annabelle_Whitestone

I know... just shows what a sad man Menahem is... and what a sad woman Annabelle is... they have no dignity left.

>
> May you do as well in your old age as Pressler
> or Rubinstein.

Dan... how will the moshiach come like this? Rubinstein and Pressler in one sentence... Dan... beg hashem for forgiveness...

Furthermore:
I am not interested in evaluating performances based on the age of the pianists; I am just interested in hearing good music... and Rubinstein - I am sorry - was just not as good with music when he was older, as he was when he was younger - now there might still be performances worthy to hear of him at an older age I do not know; I have yet to hear a performance of Pressler (young or old) that is worthy to hear.

If you want to hear older people playing beautiful music, listen to Horowitz play Mozart - so good.

> > I wonder... the recital... was it about Mozart?
> > Or was it about Pressler and his ego?
> ROTFL !!!

You really don't understand my point do you? ;D

>
> dk

It seems my last post got flagged and therefore deleted... for what exactly?

Fortunately I had it saved:

Dan Koren schrieb am Samstag, 17. Juni 2023 um 08:26:54 UTC+2:
> On Friday, June 16, 2023 at 10:57:03 PM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:
> > Dan Koren schrieb am Samstag, 17. Juni 2023 um 07:36:36 UTC+2:
> > > https://youtu.be/7oPQ_ARlziY
> >
> > You know, just listening to bits of it, I get the
> > feeling that maybe while I could not play the
> > whole concerto after a year of teaching myself
> > how to play piano, I would still do many things
> > better than this guy...
> You are really clueless about piano performance. To
> play like this AT 90 is nothing shourt of miraculous.
>

Seems you are the one who is really clueless about music... I am not bringing in any extra-musical factors to make this performance palatable. I don't care how old he is, his playing just sucks.

> If you believe one year of practice can bring one
> to this level you are totally AI (arrogant and
> ignorant).

Read what I said; I said that I am certain that I will get parts better than he did - wrt phrasing and also touch etc. So wrt these parts, I will not be just "on his level", but "above his level". Your lack in reading comprehension is just proof that you are AI; and if you really don't think there are people on this earth capable of doing so, you are even more AI...

> > If he was a great musician, as purported in the
> > comments, he would have the decency not to
> > assault people with his crappy Mozart... but as
> > said in another thread: People these days - young
> > or old - have no shame; be it 90 yo Menahem Pressler
> Here is Pressler at 91: https://youtu.be/QeRMPBXiW2E

No, thank you. It seems you are more concerned with his age than with the music he plays... so it's not Pressler playing Mozart or Schubert, but "here check out Pressler at 91"...

> > fucking up Mozart, 51 yo Currentzis fucking up Mozart
> > or 41 yo Lang Lang fucking up Mozart or the other 99+%
> > who love to fuck up Mozart... and then they even make
> > people pay for this...
> No one forced his audience to buy tickets.

This is not my point, the point is that people have the chutzpah to ask people for monkey for this... Currentzis shows about as much self-reflection on his idiocy, as you do wrt yours ;) "Pleyel"...

>
> As to the f**king part, he actually had a better
> looking than Mozart girlfriend during his 90s:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annabelle_Whitestone

I know... just shows what a sad man Menahem is... and what a sad woman Annabelle is... they have no dignity left.

>
> May you do as well in your old age as Pressler
> or Rubinstein.

Dan... how will the moshiach come like this? Rubinstein and Pressler in one sentence... Dan... beg hashem for forgiveness...

Furthermore:
I am not interested in evaluating performances based on the age of the pianists; I am just interested in hearing good music... and Rubinstein - I am sorry - was just not as good with music when he was older, as he was when he was younger - now there might still be performances worthy to hear of him at an older age I do not know; I have yet to hear a performance of Pressler (young or old) that is worthy to hear.

If you want to hear older people playing beautiful music, listen to Horowitz play Mozart - so good.

> > I wonder... the recital... was it about Mozart?
> > Or was it about Pressler and his ego?
> ROTFL !!!

You really don't understand my point do you? ;D

>
> dk

On Saturday, June 17, 2023 at 3:24:48 AM UTC-4, Marc S wrote:
> It seems my last post got flagged and therefore deleted... for what exactly?
>
> Fortunately I had it saved:
> Dan Koren schrieb am Samstag, 17. Juni 2023 um 08:26:54 UTC+2:
> > On Friday, June 16, 2023 at 10:57:03 PM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:
> > > Dan Koren schrieb am Samstag, 17. Juni 2023 um 07:36:36 UTC+2:
> > > > https://youtu.be/7oPQ_ARlziY
> > >
> > > You know, just listening to bits of it, I get the
> > > feeling that maybe while I could not play the
> > > whole concerto after a year of teaching myself
> > > how to play piano, I would still do many things
> > > better than this guy...
> > You are really clueless about piano performance. To
> > play like this AT 90 is nothing shourt of miraculous.
> >
> Seems you are the one who is really clueless about music... I am not bringing in any extra-musical factors to make this performance palatable. I don't care how old he is, his playing just sucks.
> > If you believe one year of practice can bring one
> > to this level you are totally AI (arrogant and
> > ignorant).
> Read what I said; I said that I am certain that I will get parts better than he did - wrt phrasing and also touch etc. So wrt these parts, I will not be just "on his level", but "above his level". Your lack in reading comprehension is just proof that you are AI; and if you really don't think there are people on this earth capable of doing so, you are even more AI...
> > > If he was a great musician, as purported in the
> > > comments, he would have the decency not to
> > > assault people with his crappy Mozart... but as
> > > said in another thread: People these days - young
> > > or old - have no shame; be it 90 yo Menahem Pressler
> > Here is Pressler at 91: https://youtu.be/QeRMPBXiW2E
> No, thank you. It seems you are more concerned with his age than with the music he plays... so it's not Pressler playing Mozart or Schubert, but "here check out Pressler at 91"...
> > > fucking up Mozart, 51 yo Currentzis fucking up Mozart
> > > or 41 yo Lang Lang fucking up Mozart or the other 99+%
> > > who love to fuck up Mozart... and then they even make
> > > people pay for this...
> > No one forced his audience to buy tickets.
> This is not my point, the point is that people have the chutzpah to ask people for monkey for this... Currentzis shows about as much self-reflection on his idiocy, as you do wrt yours ;) "Pleyel"...
> >
> > As to the f**king part, he actually had a better
> > looking than Mozart girlfriend during his 90s:
> >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annabelle_Whitestone
> I know... just shows what a sad man Menahem is... and what a sad woman Annabelle is... they have no dignity left.
> >
> > May you do as well in your old age as Pressler
> > or Rubinstein.
> Dan... how will the moshiach come like this? Rubinstein and Pressler in one sentence... Dan... beg hashem for forgiveness...
>
> Furthermore:
> I am not interested in evaluating performances based on the age of the pianists; I am just interested in hearing good music... and Rubinstein - I am sorry - was just not as good with music when he was older, as he was when he was younger - now there might still be performances worthy to hear of him at an older age I do not know; I have yet to hear a performance of Pressler (young or old) that is worthy to hear.
>
> If you want to hear older people playing beautiful music, listen to Horowitz play Mozart - so good.
> > > I wonder... the recital... was it about Mozart?
> > > Or was it about Pressler and his ego?
> > ROTFL !!!
> You really don't understand my point do you? ;D
>
> >
> > dk

Marc S :"You know, just listening to bits of it, I get the feeling that maybe while I could not play the whole concerto after a year of teaching myself how to play piano, I would still do many things better than this guy..."

"this guy"?? I’m sorry, but that’s one of the top 10 most idiotic things I’ve ever read here. You’re serious? sounds like one of those uninformed comments about being able to be a percussionist in an orchestra with no training….and why are they paying somebody to do that? You’re entitled to your opinion about the performance, but that statement is ridiculous and an insult to a musician who gave his life to his art and craft, not someone who has the ego to think they can do it in one freaking year. And your characterization of him as a human being is also completely Looney Tunes… I must know 50 people who knew him personally, and never came to the whacked conclusions that you have…

Apologies for the attack, but I think you need a dose of reality here.

On Saturday, June 17, 2023 at 2:37:03 PM UTC+2, vhorowitz wrote:
>
>
> Apologies for the attack, but I think you need a dose of reality here.

No apologies needed. It's so typical that he says "after a year of teaching MYSELF how to play piano".

There is literally no concert pianist whatsoever who was or is self-taught; it doesn't exist. But obviously this guy thinks all he needs is a year of admiring himself in the mirror and listening to himself talk and he's ready for Carnegie Hall.

On Saturday, June 17, 2023 at 9:24:19 AM UTC-4, Herman wrote:
> On Saturday, June 17, 2023 at 2:37:03 PM UTC+2, vhorowitz wrote:
> >
> >
> > Apologies for the attack, but I think you need a dose of reality here.
> No apologies needed. It's so typical that he says "after a year of teaching MYSELF how to play piano".
>
> There is literally no concert pianist whatsoever who was or is self-taught; it doesn't exist. But obviously this guy thinks all he needs is a year of admiring himself in the mirror and listening to himself talk and he's ready for Carnegie Hall.

Ha, yes….I guess one can learn to become a concert pianist by watching Youtube videos now. I’m sure with the rise of AI there will be no end to those who will become “experts” in everything under the sun by plugging themselves into that BS. Sort of the ultimate cognitive dissonance elimination via cyber rose colored glasses. We’ll all be running around like the Lego movie’s “Everything is Awesome” character.

vhorowitz schrieb am Samstag, 17. Juni 2023 um 14:37:03 UTC+2:
> On Saturday, June 17, 2023 at 3:24:48 AM UTC-4, Marc S wrote:
> > It seems my last post got flagged and therefore deleted... for what exactly?
> >
> > Fortunately I had it saved:
> > Dan Koren schrieb am Samstag, 17. Juni 2023 um 08:26:54 UTC+2:
> > > On Friday, June 16, 2023 at 10:57:03 PM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:
> > > > Dan Koren schrieb am Samstag, 17. Juni 2023 um 07:36:36 UTC+2:
> > > > > https://youtu.be/7oPQ_ARlziY
> > > >
> > > > You know, just listening to bits of it, I get the
> > > > feeling that maybe while I could not play the
> > > > whole concerto after a year of teaching myself
> > > > how to play piano, I would still do many things
> > > > better than this guy...
> > > You are really clueless about piano performance. To
> > > play like this AT 90 is nothing shourt of miraculous.
> > >
> > Seems you are the one who is really clueless about music... I am not bringing in any extra-musical factors to make this performance palatable. I don't care how old he is, his playing just sucks.
> > > If you believe one year of practice can bring one
> > > to this level you are totally AI (arrogant and
> > > ignorant).
> > Read what I said; I said that I am certain that I will get parts better than he did - wrt phrasing and also touch etc. So wrt these parts, I will not be just "on his level", but "above his level". Your lack in reading comprehension is just proof that you are AI; and if you really don't think there are people on this earth capable of doing so, you are even more AI...
> > > > If he was a great musician, as purported in the
> > > > comments, he would have the decency not to
> > > > assault people with his crappy Mozart... but as
> > > > said in another thread: People these days - young
> > > > or old - have no shame; be it 90 yo Menahem Pressler
> > > Here is Pressler at 91: https://youtu.be/QeRMPBXiW2E
> > No, thank you. It seems you are more concerned with his age than with the music he plays... so it's not Pressler playing Mozart or Schubert, but "here check out Pressler at 91"...
> > > > fucking up Mozart, 51 yo Currentzis fucking up Mozart
> > > > or 41 yo Lang Lang fucking up Mozart or the other 99+%
> > > > who love to fuck up Mozart... and then they even make
> > > > people pay for this...
> > > No one forced his audience to buy tickets.
> > This is not my point, the point is that people have the chutzpah to ask people for monkey for this... Currentzis shows about as much self-reflection on his idiocy, as you do wrt yours ;) "Pleyel"...
> > >
> > > As to the f**king part, he actually had a better
> > > looking than Mozart girlfriend during his 90s:
> > >
> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annabelle_Whitestone
> > I know... just shows what a sad man Menahem is... and what a sad woman Annabelle is... they have no dignity left.
> > >
> > > May you do as well in your old age as Pressler
> > > or Rubinstein.
> > Dan... how will the moshiach come like this? Rubinstein and Pressler in one sentence... Dan... beg hashem for forgiveness...
> >
> > Furthermore:
> > I am not interested in evaluating performances based on the age of the pianists; I am just interested in hearing good music... and Rubinstein - I am sorry - was just not as good with music when he was older, as he was when he was younger - now there might still be performances worthy to hear of him at an older age I do not know; I have yet to hear a performance of Pressler (young or old) that is worthy to hear.
> >
> > If you want to hear older people playing beautiful music, listen to Horowitz play Mozart - so good.
> > > > I wonder... the recital... was it about Mozart?
> > > > Or was it about Pressler and his ego?
> > > ROTFL !!!
> > You really don't understand my point do you? ;D
> >
> > >
> > > dk
> Marc S :"You know, just listening to bits of it, I get the feeling that maybe while I could not play the whole concerto after a year of teaching myself how to play piano, I would still do many things better than this guy..."
>
> "this guy"?? I’m sorry, but that’s one of the top 10 most idiotic things I’ve ever read here. You’re serious?

You think this is one of the top 10 most idiotic things you've ever read here, eh? Are You serious?

> sounds like one of those uninformed comments about being able to be a percussionist in an orchestra with no training….

Depends on what one considers helpful information in this case and how one feels about Pressler's Mozart, I guess. FYI There are not many Mozart pianists, or rather pianists in general that I like, but same goes for composers, violinists, cellists etc...

You see... these days... there are people who have studied psychology and/or medicine; and these people teach children that they could change their sex... and then they prescribe these children hormonal drugs - of which there haven't been amde any studies until very recently btw... - that alter their bodies and help them get sexual reassignment surgeries (say cutting off the tits of girls and women; yes this is being done to minors in the USA, legitimized by the Dems; same shit happening here in Germany). Now these "experts", Mr Neal, would tell you that you lack information, at least if you think there is anything wrong with it... now I do hope that you are of sound judgement and realize how wrong Trans-Ideology is... do you think you lack information in deciding whether it is true or not that people can change their sex?

> and why are they paying somebody to do that? You’re entitled to your opinion about the performance, but that statement is ridiculous and an insult to a musician who gave his life to his art and craft, not someone who has the ego to think they can do it in one freaking year.

He sure had the ego to tackle Mozart... and he completely failed.

You are entitled to your opinion as well, and I think everything you said is pretty much ridiculous... Can only people who have studied music develop a strong taste in music? I have played a little bit piano and I think it's not impossible that if I would be able to practice 1year - solely concentrating on it - I would get some parts better than him... I was saying "parts" or "things". I explcitily stated I'd not be able to play the whole concerto, but do parts better than this guy... also, it was just a "feeling" as I said... When he plays some parts, I have in my mind how I would do it better... his touch is nice though... and trills are a problem for me haha. But thinking about it again I think I might have been wrong... I'd just be too afraid to tackle this piece haha...

But Please... this is not good Mozart playing... I am sorry... but what do you want me to tell you? That it's good when it sucks?

> And your characterization of him as a human being is also completely Looney Tunes… I must know 50 people who knew him personally, and never came to the whacked conclusions that you have…

Eh... this guy is full of himself; obviously you have no clue about him. You are like the guy who says that Israel is practicing Apartheid and tells me that you have 50 Jewish friends who've got your back on this...

>
> Apologies for the attack, but I think you need a dose of reality here.

No need to be dishonest and apologize, only if you have reflected and understood why it was wrong.

If you don't mind a question:
Do you think Rubinstein had dignity when he married Whitestone? Or didn't he rather need a dose of reality?

vhorowitz schrieb am Samstag, 17. Juni 2023 um 16:25:04 UTC+2:
> On Saturday, June 17, 2023 at 9:24:19 AM UTC-4, Herman wrote:
> > On Saturday, June 17, 2023 at 2:37:03 PM UTC+2, vhorowitz wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Apologies for the attack, but I think you need a dose of reality here..
> > No apologies needed. It's so typical that he says "after a year of teaching MYSELF how to play piano".
> >
> > There is literally no concert pianist whatsoever who was or is self-taught; it doesn't exist. But obviously this guy thinks all he needs is a year of admiring himself in the mirror and listening to himself talk and he's ready for Carnegie Hall.
> Ha, yes….I guess one can learn to become a concert pianist by watching Youtube videos now.

Never claimed I could become a concert pianist; but sure, just screw around with reality in your head to make it fit your narrative. Seems you are a god damn moron... very similar to Herman...
> I’m sure with the rise of AI there will be no end to those who will become “experts” in everything under the sun by plugging themselves into that BS.

Isn't it you who is AI trying to morally lecture others into obedience? Please fuck off.

> Sort of the ultimate cognitive dissonance elimination via cyber rose colored glasses. We’ll all be running around like the Lego movie’s “Everything is Awesome” character.

Now you are speaking about cognitive dissonance? Very funny...

See... Menahem Pressler just doesn't come close to my favourite Mozart pianists, and I think one can do much better. Sorry for making you whine.

vhorowitz schrieb am Samstag, 17. Juni 2023 um 14:37:03 UTC+2:
> On Saturday, June 17, 2023 at 3:24:48 AM UTC-4, Marc S wrote:
> > It seems my last post got flagged and therefore deleted... for what exactly?
> >
> > Fortunately I had it saved:
> > Dan Koren schrieb am Samstag, 17. Juni 2023 um 08:26:54 UTC+2:
> > > On Friday, June 16, 2023 at 10:57:03 PM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:
> > > > Dan Koren schrieb am Samstag, 17. Juni 2023 um 07:36:36 UTC+2:
> > > > > https://youtu.be/7oPQ_ARlziY
> > > >
> > > > You know, just listening to bits of it, I get the
> > > > feeling that maybe while I could not play the
> > > > whole concerto after a year of teaching myself
> > > > how to play piano, I would still do many things
> > > > better than this guy...
> > > You are really clueless about piano performance. To
> > > play like this AT 90 is nothing shourt of miraculous.
> > >
> > Seems you are the one who is really clueless about music... I am not bringing in any extra-musical factors to make this performance palatable. I don't care how old he is, his playing just sucks.
> > > If you believe one year of practice can bring one
> > > to this level you are totally AI (arrogant and
> > > ignorant).
> > Read what I said; I said that I am certain that I will get parts better than he did - wrt phrasing and also touch etc. So wrt these parts, I will not be just "on his level", but "above his level". Your lack in reading comprehension is just proof that you are AI; and if you really don't think there are people on this earth capable of doing so, you are even more AI...
> > > > If he was a great musician, as purported in the
> > > > comments, he would have the decency not to
> > > > assault people with his crappy Mozart... but as
> > > > said in another thread: People these days - young
> > > > or old - have no shame; be it 90 yo Menahem Pressler
> > > Here is Pressler at 91: https://youtu.be/QeRMPBXiW2E
> > No, thank you. It seems you are more concerned with his age than with the music he plays... so it's not Pressler playing Mozart or Schubert, but "here check out Pressler at 91"...
> > > > fucking up Mozart, 51 yo Currentzis fucking up Mozart
> > > > or 41 yo Lang Lang fucking up Mozart or the other 99+%
> > > > who love to fuck up Mozart... and then they even make
> > > > people pay for this...
> > > No one forced his audience to buy tickets.
> > This is not my point, the point is that people have the chutzpah to ask people for monkey for this... Currentzis shows about as much self-reflection on his idiocy, as you do wrt yours ;) "Pleyel"...
> > >
> > > As to the f**king part, he actually had a better
> > > looking than Mozart girlfriend during his 90s:
> > >
> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annabelle_Whitestone
> > I know... just shows what a sad man Menahem is... and what a sad woman Annabelle is... they have no dignity left.
> > >
> > > May you do as well in your old age as Pressler
> > > or Rubinstein.
> > Dan... how will the moshiach come like this? Rubinstein and Pressler in one sentence... Dan... beg hashem for forgiveness...
> >
> > Furthermore:
> > I am not interested in evaluating performances based on the age of the pianists; I am just interested in hearing good music... and Rubinstein - I am sorry - was just not as good with music when he was older, as he was when he was younger - now there might still be performances worthy to hear of him at an older age I do not know; I have yet to hear a performance of Pressler (young or old) that is worthy to hear.
> >
> > If you want to hear older people playing beautiful music, listen to Horowitz play Mozart - so good.
> > > > I wonder... the recital... was it about Mozart?
> > > > Or was it about Pressler and his ego?
> > > ROTFL !!!
> > You really don't understand my point do you? ;D
> >
> > >
> > > dk
> Marc S :"You know, just listening to bits of it, I get the feeling that maybe while I could not play the whole concerto after a year of teaching myself how to play piano, I would still do many things better than this guy..."
>
> "this guy"?? I’m sorry, but that’s one of the top 10 most idiotic things I’ve ever read here. You’re serious? sounds like one of those uninformed comments about being able to be a percussionist in an orchestra with no training….and why are they paying somebody to do that? You’re entitled to your opinion about the performance, but that statement is ridiculous and an insult to a musician who gave his life to his art and craft, not someone who has the ego to think they can do it in one freaking year. And your characterization of him as a human being is also completely Looney Tunes… I must know 50 people who knew him personally, and never came to the whacked conclusions that you have…
>
> Apologies for the attack, but I think you need a dose of reality here.

I'd like to add another thing: I'd definitely do a better job than Biden ;D

Marc S schrieb am Samstag, 17. Juni 2023 um 23:18:00 UTC+2:
> vhorowitz schrieb am Samstag, 17. Juni 2023 um 16:25:04 UTC+2:
> > On Saturday, June 17, 2023 at 9:24:19 AM UTC-4, Herman wrote:
> > > On Saturday, June 17, 2023 at 2:37:03 PM UTC+2, vhorowitz wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Apologies for the attack, but I think you need a dose of reality here.
> > > No apologies needed. It's so typical that he says "after a year of teaching MYSELF how to play piano".
> > >
> > > There is literally no concert pianist whatsoever who was or is self-taught; it doesn't exist. But obviously this guy thinks all he needs is a year of admiring himself in the mirror and listening to himself talk and he's ready for Carnegie Hall.
> > Ha, yes….I guess one can learn to become a concert pianist by watching Youtube videos now.
>
> Never claimed I could become a concert pianist; but sure, just screw around with reality in your head to make it fit your narrative. Seems you are a god damn moron... very similar to Herman...
>
> > I’m sure with the rise of AI there will be no end to those who will become “experts” in everything under the sun by plugging themselves into that BS.
>
> Isn't it you who is AI trying to morally lecture others into obedience? Please fuck off.
"
*Got that wrong; obviosuly he didn't mean arrogant and ignorant, but artificial intelligence. Didn't read further than "experts" at first... I was just like... god... so much idiocy here...

Anyway, seems he really fucked off haha.

People very much not light hearted these days... Sorry guys, I told you what I think of Pressler ;D

Only positive opinions accepted here. I see...

>
> > Sort of the ultimate cognitive dissonance elimination via cyber rose colored glasses. We’ll all be running around like the Lego movie’s “Everything is Awesome” character.
>
> Now you are speaking about cognitive dissonance? Very funny...
>
> See... Menahem Pressler just doesn't come close to my favourite Mozart pianists, and I think one can do much better. Sorry for making you whine.

On Saturday, June 17, 2023 at 5:54:49 PM UTC-4, Marc S wrote:
> Marc S schrieb am Samstag, 17. Juni 2023 um 23:18:00 UTC+2:
> > vhorowitz schrieb am Samstag, 17. Juni 2023 um 16:25:04 UTC+2:
> > > On Saturday, June 17, 2023 at 9:24:19 AM UTC-4, Herman wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, June 17, 2023 at 2:37:03 PM UTC+2, vhorowitz wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Apologies for the attack, but I think you need a dose of reality here.
> > > > No apologies needed. It's so typical that he says "after a year of teaching MYSELF how to play piano".
> > > >
> > > > There is literally no concert pianist whatsoever who was or is self-taught; it doesn't exist. But obviously this guy thinks all he needs is a year of admiring himself in the mirror and listening to himself talk and he's ready for Carnegie Hall.
> > > Ha, yes….I guess one can learn to become a concert pianist by watching Youtube videos now.
> >
> > Never claimed I could become a concert pianist; but sure, just screw around with reality in your head to make it fit your narrative. Seems you are a god damn moron... very similar to Herman...
> >
> > > I’m sure with the rise of AI there will be no end to those who will become “experts” in everything under the sun by plugging themselves into that BS.
> >
> > Isn't it you who is AI trying to morally lecture others into obedience? Please fuck off.
> "
> *Got that wrong; obviosuly he didn't mean arrogant and ignorant, but artificial intelligence. Didn't read further than "experts" at first... I was just like... god... so much idiocy here...
>
> Anyway, seems he really fucked off haha.
>
> People very much not light hearted these days... Sorry guys, I told you what I think of Pressler ;D
>
> Only positive opinions accepted here. I see...
> >
> > > Sort of the ultimate cognitive dissonance elimination via cyber rose colored glasses. We’ll all be running around like the Lego movie’s “Everything is Awesome” character.
> >
> > Now you are speaking about cognitive dissonance? Very funny...
> >
> > See... Menahem Pressler just doesn't come close to my favourite Mozart pianists, and I think one can do much better. Sorry for making you whine.

Yeah, sorry….bad day. Just forget it I opened my stupid mouth. I was trying to be funny, and you’re right….doesn’t work. Apologies.

vhorowitz schrieb am Sonntag, 18. Juni 2023 um 00:54:04 UTC+2:
> On Saturday, June 17, 2023 at 5:54:49 PM UTC-4, Marc S wrote:
> > Marc S schrieb am Samstag, 17. Juni 2023 um 23:18:00 UTC+2:
> > > vhorowitz schrieb am Samstag, 17. Juni 2023 um 16:25:04 UTC+2:
> > > > On Saturday, June 17, 2023 at 9:24:19 AM UTC-4, Herman wrote:
> > > > > On Saturday, June 17, 2023 at 2:37:03 PM UTC+2, vhorowitz wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Apologies for the attack, but I think you need a dose of reality here.
> > > > > No apologies needed. It's so typical that he says "after a year of teaching MYSELF how to play piano".
> > > > >
> > > > > There is literally no concert pianist whatsoever who was or is self-taught; it doesn't exist. But obviously this guy thinks all he needs is a year of admiring himself in the mirror and listening to himself talk and he's ready for Carnegie Hall.
> > > > Ha, yes….I guess one can learn to become a concert pianist by watching Youtube videos now.
> > >
> > > Never claimed I could become a concert pianist; but sure, just screw around with reality in your head to make it fit your narrative. Seems you are a god damn moron... very similar to Herman...
> > >
> > > > I’m sure with the rise of AI there will be no end to those who will become “experts” in everything under the sun by plugging themselves into that BS.
> > >
> > > Isn't it you who is AI trying to morally lecture others into obedience? Please fuck off.
> > "
> > *Got that wrong; obviosuly he didn't mean arrogant and ignorant, but artificial intelligence. Didn't read further than "experts" at first... I was just like... god... so much idiocy here...
> >
> > Anyway, seems he really fucked off haha.
> >
> > People very much not light hearted these days... Sorry guys, I told you what I think of Pressler ;D
> >
> > Only positive opinions accepted here. I see...
> > >
> > > > Sort of the ultimate cognitive dissonance elimination via cyber rose colored glasses. We’ll all be running around like the Lego movie’s “Everything is Awesome” character.
> > >
> > > Now you are speaking about cognitive dissonance? Very funny...
> > >
> > > See... Menahem Pressler just doesn't come close to my favourite Mozart pianists, and I think one can do much better. Sorry for making you whine.
> Yeah, sorry….bad day. Just forget it I opened my stupid mouth. I was trying to be funny, and you’re right….doesn’t work. Apologies.

Now I feel bad too... sorry for saying things like "please fuck off"...

The thing for me is this: If I were a concert pianist and someone would have said the things about me that I did about Pressler, I would just shrug it off - at least if I were confident in my art. Depending on the person I'd maybe also respect his opinion and ask what he felt was wrong. I think it's detrimental to art to lecture others how to talk or think about it; you see, when listening to Pressler in 595, my thoughts were "I could do it better if I had enough time to practice this", and I think it's very harmful if you want to block such thoughts, like this individuality is at stake, which seems to be quite a problem in music business in general today. You are not even giving me reasonable arguments, but just attacking me; Marc you have not played x years piano, you are no concert pianist, you have not studied music etc and that's why you should just shut up.

You react similarily to say catholics if you criticise the pope...

I think good taste has much to do with some natural instinct or sth; Kant tied judgements of taste to moral judgements... and I think that how the world is constitued today (capitalism, culture industry etc - note: I am pro capitalist, but I am still critical of capitalism), people sort of get robbed of their taste... say when Mozart grew up, the world was still quieter and not as busy... but when kids grow up these days, it's all loud and very busy and hectic, being bombarded with simplistic but very driving bass rhythmns in pop music etc... and this affects them fundamentally... they sort of become apathetic, not more receptive of nuances etc. Just some thoughts...

sometimes it feels to me that good art should just be as obvious as not to kill another human being... it is not sth to be argued about, it's just self-evident.

And if you compare Horowitz and Pressler as a human being... Horowitz is lovable, Pressler is very unsympathetic. If you feel differently about this, that's fine... but you know he is just not a pianist I would ever consider to be one of the greatest, he is very uninspiring... and I think that's almost an objective fact; at least it seems obvious to me.

There is this funny thing I read about him on a German forum and now I can't unsee it... when he plays chamber music, he always stares at his partners when they have entrances or sth... and it's fucking obnoxious

Look here: https://youtu.be/uodJo4pvdQ0?t=77

FWIW: I very likely would not have the touch of Pressler after 1 year, but I think I have better ideas... and I think at least wrt phrasing it wouldn't be impossible for me or for other people, if one studied diligently and had a feeling for Mozart, to get some parts better than pressler after 1 year... I was writing it with a smirk on my face btw.

On Sunday, June 18, 2023 at 4:06:34 AM UTC-4, Marc S wrote:
> vhorowitz schrieb am Sonntag, 18. Juni 2023 um 00:54:04 UTC+2:
> > On Saturday, June 17, 2023 at 5:54:49 PM UTC-4, Marc S wrote:
> > > Marc S schrieb am Samstag, 17. Juni 2023 um 23:18:00 UTC+2:
> > > > vhorowitz schrieb am Samstag, 17. Juni 2023 um 16:25:04 UTC+2:
> > > > > On Saturday, June 17, 2023 at 9:24:19 AM UTC-4, Herman wrote:
> > > > > > On Saturday, June 17, 2023 at 2:37:03 PM UTC+2, vhorowitz wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Apologies for the attack, but I think you need a dose of reality here.
> > > > > > No apologies needed. It's so typical that he says "after a year of teaching MYSELF how to play piano".
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There is literally no concert pianist whatsoever who was or is self-taught; it doesn't exist. But obviously this guy thinks all he needs is a year of admiring himself in the mirror and listening to himself talk and he's ready for Carnegie Hall.
> > > > > Ha, yes….I guess one can learn to become a concert pianist by watching Youtube videos now.
> > > >
> > > > Never claimed I could become a concert pianist; but sure, just screw around with reality in your head to make it fit your narrative. Seems you are a god damn moron... very similar to Herman...
> > > >
> > > > > I’m sure with the rise of AI there will be no end to those who will become “experts” in everything under the sun by plugging themselves into that BS.
> > > >
> > > > Isn't it you who is AI trying to morally lecture others into obedience? Please fuck off.
> > > "
> > > *Got that wrong; obviosuly he didn't mean arrogant and ignorant, but artificial intelligence. Didn't read further than "experts" at first... I was just like... god... so much idiocy here...
> > >
> > > Anyway, seems he really fucked off haha.
> > >
> > > People very much not light hearted these days... Sorry guys, I told you what I think of Pressler ;D
> > >
> > > Only positive opinions accepted here. I see...
> > > >
> > > > > Sort of the ultimate cognitive dissonance elimination via cyber rose colored glasses. We’ll all be running around like the Lego movie’s “Everything is Awesome” character.
> > > >
> > > > Now you are speaking about cognitive dissonance? Very funny...
> > > >
> > > > See... Menahem Pressler just doesn't come close to my favourite Mozart pianists, and I think one can do much better. Sorry for making you whine.
> > Yeah, sorry….bad day. Just forget it I opened my stupid mouth. I was trying to be funny, and you’re right….doesn’t work. Apologies.
> Now I feel bad too... sorry for saying things like "please fuck off"...
>
> The thing for me is this: If I were a concert pianist and someone would have said the things about me that I did about Pressler, I would just shrug it off - at least if I were confident in my art. Depending on the person I'd maybe also respect his opinion and ask what he felt was wrong. I think it's detrimental to art to lecture others how to talk or think about it; you see, when listening to Pressler in 595, my thoughts were "I could do it better if I had enough time to practice this", and I think it's very harmful if you want to block such thoughts, like this individuality is at stake, which seems to be quite a problem in music business in general today. You are not even giving me reasonable arguments, but just attacking me; Marc you have not played x years piano, you are no concert pianist, you have not studied music etc and that's why you should just shut up.
>
> You react similarily to say catholics if you criticise the pope...
>
> I think good taste has much to do with some natural instinct or sth; Kant tied judgements of taste to moral judgements... and I think that how the world is constitued today (capitalism, culture industry etc - note: I am pro capitalist, but I am still critical of capitalism), people sort of get robbed of their taste... say when Mozart grew up, the world was still quieter and not as busy... but when kids grow up these days, it's all loud and very busy and hectic, being bombarded with simplistic but very driving bass rhythmns in pop music etc... and this affects them fundamentally... they sort of become apathetic, not more receptive of nuances etc. Just some thoughts....
>
> sometimes it feels to me that good art should just be as obvious as not to kill another human being... it is not sth to be argued about, it's just self-evident.
>
> And if you compare Horowitz and Pressler as a human being... Horowitz is lovable, Pressler is very unsympathetic. If you feel differently about this, that's fine... but you know he is just not a pianist I would ever consider to be one of the greatest, he is very uninspiring... and I think that's almost an objective fact; at least it seems obvious to me.
>
> There is this funny thing I read about him on a German forum and now I can't unsee it... when he plays chamber music, he always stares at his partners when they have entrances or sth... and it's fucking obnoxious
>
> Look here: https://youtu.be/uodJo4pvdQ0?t=77
>
> FWIW: I very likely would not have the touch of Pressler after 1 year, but I think I have better ideas... and I think at least wrt phrasing it wouldn't be impossible for me or for other people, if one studied diligently and had a feeling for Mozart, to get some parts better than pressler after 1 year... I was writing it with a smirk on my face btw.

No, I get it. Part of it with Pressler, for ME, is that, while the Beaux Arts Trio was not my favorite group by a long shot, I always thought they were very fine individual players, during their time. I had the absolutely bizarre experience in high school, in the late 70s, of being on stage with the trio for a Beethoven Triple concerto at Peabody…..sometimes truth is stranger than fiction. My main instrument was (and is) piano, but I also was a cellist of sorts during school years. A group I was involved with got asked to visit Peabody (read, they were trying to recruit string applicants) and they somehow came up with the idea of having us play alongside the Peabody student orchestra (under Fredrick Prausnitz) in this Beethoven Triple. So, as a 17 yr old, I was sitting 2nd chair cello for that…..Greenhouse was freaking unbelievable, and to be about 6 feet away…wow, what a thrill. Anyhow, Pressler, in particular, was very gracious in meeting and talking to us snot-nosed brats….got to give him some credit for that. Anyhow, what does that have to do with Pressler at 90? Very little, and sure, he’s pretty lumpy by then. I just didn’t have as strong a “shit-can” reaction as you, haha. Speaking of near geriatric K 595s….also in the 70s, I saw Horszowski/Ormandy/Philly in a K 595….it was Horsowski’s Philadelphia orch DEBUT…at age 87! I thought it was quite beautiful.

On Sunday, June 18, 2023 at 10:06:34 AM UTC+2, Marc S wrote:
>
>
> There is this funny thing I read about him on a German forum and now I can't unsee it... when he plays chamber music, he always stares at his partners when they have entrances or sth... and it's fucking obnoxious
>
Quoted for collossal ignorance.

On Sunday, June 18, 2023 at 10:09:51 AM UTC-4, Herman wrote:
> On Sunday, June 18, 2023 at 10:06:34 AM UTC+2, Marc S wrote:
> >
> >
> > There is this funny thing I read about him on a German forum and now I can't unsee it... when he plays chamber music, he always stares at his partners when they have entrances or sth... and it's fucking obnoxious
> >
> Quoted for collossal ignorance.

Hmm. I’d have to see what that looks like, but it’s something that most of us chamber musicians do all the time. I don’t stare at them, but I certainly look over in their direction, and they always appreciate it because it shows I know what they’re about to do, and that I’m listening to them. I did attend a master class by a woman who was a pianist for Heifetz’ class and she advocated turning towards whoever was playing the primary line, so if that was the violinist, looking at the pianist, their back was suddenly to the audience… That seemed both impractical and rather obnoxious , but I suppose she was making a point about knowing who have the dominant role. It seemed kind of funny, since I always felt like JH’s performances were all about the violin, and the piano might as well have been in the next room, but that’s not how she described his attitude…. he would rail on the students who didn’t know the piano part in enough detail…. I am with him on that… Too many lazy students don’t bother to study the score. Sometimes I ask them if they have a piano part… It’s sort of a dead giveaway when they say no!

Herman schrieb am Sonntag, 18. Juni 2023 um 16:09:51 UTC+2:
> On Sunday, June 18, 2023 at 10:06:34 AM UTC+2, Marc S wrote:
> >
> >
> > There is this funny thing I read about him on a German forum and now I can't unsee it... when he plays chamber music, he always stares at his partners when they have entrances or sth... and it's fucking obnoxious
> >
> Quoted for collossal ignorance.

Why so? He does it way more than other chamber musicians as it seems to me; and in said forum even a - I think - "low-level" (not well-known), but experienced, professional musician (whose name I hesitate to mention, as I don't seem to be liked here - but I want to say that his record was reviewed by Hurwitz and Johannes Roehl seems to know him) made funny comments about it. Ofc Herman has no sense for nuances, just as Pressler ;)

Marc S schrieb am Montag, 19. Juni 2023 um 21:22:34 UTC+2:
> Herman schrieb am Sonntag, 18. Juni 2023 um 16:09:51 UTC+2:
> > On Sunday, June 18, 2023 at 10:06:34 AM UTC+2, Marc S wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > There is this funny thing I read about him on a German forum and now I can't unsee it... when he plays chamber music, he always stares at his partners when they have entrances or sth... and it's fucking obnoxious
> > >
> > Quoted for collossal ignorance.
> Why so? He does it way more than other chamber musicians as it seems to me; and in said forum even a - I think - "low-level" (not well-known), but experienced, professional musician (whose name I hesitate to mention, as I don't seem to be liked here - but I want to say that his record was reviewed by Hurwitz and Johannes Roehl seems to know him) made funny comments about it. Ofc Herman has no sense for nuances, just as Pressler ;)

Ofc,if you accompany somebody, you will have to pay attention - that should go without saying... but haha ;D this is not just paying attention, man... it's just obnoxious - at least to me. Anyway, you guys can view thsi differently.

On Monday, June 19, 2023 at 9:22:34 PM UTC+2, Marc S wrote:
> Herman schrieb am Sonntag, 18. Juni 2023 um 16:09:51 UTC+2:
> > On Sunday, June 18, 2023 at 10:06:34 AM UTC+2, Marc S wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > There is this funny thing I read about him on a German forum and now I can't unsee it... when he plays chamber music, he always stares at his partners when they have entrances or sth... and it's fucking obnoxious
> > >
> > Quoted for collossal ignorance.
> Why so? He does it way more than other chamber musicians as it seems to me

No, Pressler didn't do it more than other chamber musicians.
What he does is standard practice.

.. Ofc Herman has no sense for nuances, just as Pressler ;)

Says Mr Nuance.

vhorowitz schrieb am Sonntag, 18. Juni 2023 um 14:14:42 UTC+2:
> On Sunday, June 18, 2023 at 4:06:34 AM UTC-4, Marc S wrote:
> > vhorowitz schrieb am Sonntag, 18. Juni 2023 um 00:54:04 UTC+2:
> > > On Saturday, June 17, 2023 at 5:54:49 PM UTC-4, Marc S wrote:
> > > > Marc S schrieb am Samstag, 17. Juni 2023 um 23:18:00 UTC+2:
> > > > > vhorowitz schrieb am Samstag, 17. Juni 2023 um 16:25:04 UTC+2:
> > > > > > On Saturday, June 17, 2023 at 9:24:19 AM UTC-4, Herman wrote:
> > > > > > > On Saturday, June 17, 2023 at 2:37:03 PM UTC+2, vhorowitz wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Apologies for the attack, but I think you need a dose of reality here.
> > > > > > > No apologies needed. It's so typical that he says "after a year of teaching MYSELF how to play piano".
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > There is literally no concert pianist whatsoever who was or is self-taught; it doesn't exist. But obviously this guy thinks all he needs is a year of admiring himself in the mirror and listening to himself talk and he's ready for Carnegie Hall.
> > > > > > Ha, yes….I guess one can learn to become a concert pianist by watching Youtube videos now.
> > > > >
> > > > > Never claimed I could become a concert pianist; but sure, just screw around with reality in your head to make it fit your narrative. Seems you are a god damn moron... very similar to Herman...
> > > > >
> > > > > > I’m sure with the rise of AI there will be no end to those who will become “experts” in everything under the sun by plugging themselves into that BS.
> > > > >
> > > > > Isn't it you who is AI trying to morally lecture others into obedience? Please fuck off.
> > > > "
> > > > *Got that wrong; obviosuly he didn't mean arrogant and ignorant, but artificial intelligence. Didn't read further than "experts" at first... I was just like... god... so much idiocy here...
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, seems he really fucked off haha.
> > > >
> > > > People very much not light hearted these days... Sorry guys, I told you what I think of Pressler ;D
> > > >
> > > > Only positive opinions accepted here. I see...
> > > > >
> > > > > > Sort of the ultimate cognitive dissonance elimination via cyber rose colored glasses. We’ll all be running around like the Lego movie’s “Everything is Awesome” character.
> > > > >
> > > > > Now you are speaking about cognitive dissonance? Very funny...
> > > > >
> > > > > See... Menahem Pressler just doesn't come close to my favourite Mozart pianists, and I think one can do much better. Sorry for making you whine.
> > > Yeah, sorry….bad day. Just forget it I opened my stupid mouth.. I was trying to be funny, and you’re right….doesn’t work. Apologies.
> > Now I feel bad too... sorry for saying things like "please fuck off"...
> >
> > The thing for me is this: If I were a concert pianist and someone would have said the things about me that I did about Pressler, I would just shrug it off - at least if I were confident in my art. Depending on the person I'd maybe also respect his opinion and ask what he felt was wrong. I think it's detrimental to art to lecture others how to talk or think about it; you see, when listening to Pressler in 595, my thoughts were "I could do it better if I had enough time to practice this", and I think it's very harmful if you want to block such thoughts, like this individuality is at stake, which seems to be quite a problem in music business in general today. You are not even giving me reasonable arguments, but just attacking me; Marc you have not played x years piano, you are no concert pianist, you have not studied music etc and that's why you should just shut up.
> >
> > You react similarily to say catholics if you criticise the pope...
> >
> > I think good taste has much to do with some natural instinct or sth; Kant tied judgements of taste to moral judgements... and I think that how the world is constitued today (capitalism, culture industry etc - note: I am pro capitalist, but I am still critical of capitalism), people sort of get robbed of their taste... say when Mozart grew up, the world was still quieter and not as busy... but when kids grow up these days, it's all loud and very busy and hectic, being bombarded with simplistic but very driving bass rhythmns in pop music etc... and this affects them fundamentally... they sort of become apathetic, not more receptive of nuances etc. Just some thoughts...
> >
> > sometimes it feels to me that good art should just be as obvious as not to kill another human being... it is not sth to be argued about, it's just self-evident.
> >
> > And if you compare Horowitz and Pressler as a human being... Horowitz is lovable, Pressler is very unsympathetic. If you feel differently about this, that's fine... but you know he is just not a pianist I would ever consider to be one of the greatest, he is very uninspiring... and I think that's almost an objective fact; at least it seems obvious to me.
> >
> > There is this funny thing I read about him on a German forum and now I can't unsee it... when he plays chamber music, he always stares at his partners when they have entrances or sth... and it's fucking obnoxious
> >
> > Look here: https://youtu.be/uodJo4pvdQ0?t=77
> >
> > FWIW: I very likely would not have the touch of Pressler after 1 year, but I think I have better ideas... and I think at least wrt phrasing it wouldn't be impossible for me or for other people, if one studied diligently and had a feeling for Mozart, to get some parts better than pressler after 1 year... I was writing it with a smirk on my face btw.
> No, I get it. Part of it with Pressler, for ME, is that, while the Beaux Arts Trio was not my favorite group by a long shot, I always thought they were very fine individual players, during their time. I had the absolutely bizarre experience in high school, in the late 70s, of being on stage with the trio for a Beethoven Triple concerto at Peabody…..sometimes truth is stranger than fiction. My main instrument was (and is) piano, but I also was a cellist of sorts during school years. A group I was involved with got asked to visit Peabody (read, they were trying to recruit string applicants) and they somehow came up with the idea of having us play alongside the Peabody student orchestra (under Fredrick Prausnitz) in this Beethoven Triple. So, as a 17 yr old, I was sitting 2nd chair cello for that…..Greenhouse was freaking unbelievable, and to be about 6 feet away…wow, what a thrill. Anyhow, Pressler, in particular, was very gracious in meeting and talking to us snot-nosed brats….got to give him some credit for that. Anyhow, what does that have to do with Pressler at 90? Very little, and sure, he’s pretty lumpy by then. I just didn’t have as strong a “shit-can” reaction as you, haha. Speaking of near geriatric K 595s….also in the 70s, I saw Horszowski/Ormandy/Philly in a K 595….it was Horsowski’s Philadelphia orch DEBUT…at age 87! I thought it was quite beautiful.

Haha, that's a funny story and memory, but hmmm... in some ways I don't really understand your line of reasoning I guess. I would cherish the memory for the fun you had with your friends and playing in the orchestra, but I don't get the rest of it... if you didn't think of them as your favourite group by a long shot, I don't see any reason being amazed by sitting a few feet away from Greenhouse - I get that one is nervous, bevause he is famous.... But if I were to play in an orchestra and some cellist I wouldn't think of a great cellist by a long shot would play... I wouldn't see a reason to be especially happy about this, but as you have explained he seemd to have played well ;D Not a piece I like at all though...

I also don't get what's so special about Pressler talking with you guys... most normal thing to do imo...? Ofc can't be done in all cases... Did he say anythign special? Or were you just impressed because it was Pressler and he was kind of famous? I think he lacks personality, just as his playing... Not trying to be mean here, just trying to say that I would cherish the memories for other reasons, I guess...

Herman schrieb am Montag, 19. Juni 2023 um 21:39:49 UTC+2:
> On Monday, June 19, 2023 at 9:22:34 PM UTC+2, Marc S wrote:
> > Herman schrieb am Sonntag, 18. Juni 2023 um 16:09:51 UTC+2:
> > > On Sunday, June 18, 2023 at 10:06:34 AM UTC+2, Marc S wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > There is this funny thing I read about him on a German forum and now I can't unsee it... when he plays chamber music, he always stares at his partners when they have entrances or sth... and it's fucking obnoxious
> > > >
> > > Quoted for collossal ignorance.
> > Why so? He does it way more than other chamber musicians as it seems to me
> No, Pressler didn't do it more than other chamber musicians.
> What he does is standard practice.

Well, while I have to admit that I haven't seen too many performances of this piece, I have not seen people in chamber music do it as much as him... and even though this piece wasn't in question in the thread of said forum, the person I mentioned seems to view this differently too; so as it seems, I am not the only one believing this to be the case about Pressler.

> . Ofc Herman has no sense for nuances, just as Pressler ;)
> Says Mr Nuance.

Ofc I am nuanced, you just haven't realized it; guess why ;)

On Monday, June 19, 2023 at 4:07:09 PM UTC-4, Marc S wrote:
> vhorowitz schrieb am Sonntag, 18. Juni 2023 um 14:14:42 UTC+2:
> > On Sunday, June 18, 2023 at 4:06:34 AM UTC-4, Marc S wrote:
> > > vhorowitz schrieb am Sonntag, 18. Juni 2023 um 00:54:04 UTC+2:
> > > > On Saturday, June 17, 2023 at 5:54:49 PM UTC-4, Marc S wrote:
> > > > > Marc S schrieb am Samstag, 17. Juni 2023 um 23:18:00 UTC+2:
> > > > > > vhorowitz schrieb am Samstag, 17. Juni 2023 um 16:25:04 UTC+2:
> > > > > > > On Saturday, June 17, 2023 at 9:24:19 AM UTC-4, Herman wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Saturday, June 17, 2023 at 2:37:03 PM UTC+2, vhorowitz wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Apologies for the attack, but I think you need a dose of reality here.
> > > > > > > > No apologies needed. It's so typical that he says "after a year of teaching MYSELF how to play piano".
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > There is literally no concert pianist whatsoever who was or is self-taught; it doesn't exist. But obviously this guy thinks all he needs is a year of admiring himself in the mirror and listening to himself talk and he's ready for Carnegie Hall.
> > > > > > > Ha, yes….I guess one can learn to become a concert pianist by watching Youtube videos now.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Never claimed I could become a concert pianist; but sure, just screw around with reality in your head to make it fit your narrative. Seems you are a god damn moron... very similar to Herman...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > I’m sure with the rise of AI there will be no end to those who will become “experts” in everything under the sun by plugging themselves into that BS.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Isn't it you who is AI trying to morally lecture others into obedience? Please fuck off.
> > > > > "
> > > > > *Got that wrong; obviosuly he didn't mean arrogant and ignorant, but artificial intelligence. Didn't read further than "experts" at first... I was just like... god... so much idiocy here...
> > > > >
> > > > > Anyway, seems he really fucked off haha.
> > > > >
> > > > > People very much not light hearted these days... Sorry guys, I told you what I think of Pressler ;D
> > > > >
> > > > > Only positive opinions accepted here. I see...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Sort of the ultimate cognitive dissonance elimination via cyber rose colored glasses. We’ll all be running around like the Lego movie’s “Everything is Awesome” character.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Now you are speaking about cognitive dissonance? Very funny...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > See... Menahem Pressler just doesn't come close to my favourite Mozart pianists, and I think one can do much better. Sorry for making you whine.
> > > > Yeah, sorry….bad day. Just forget it I opened my stupid mouth. I was trying to be funny, and you’re right….doesn’t work. Apologies.
> > > Now I feel bad too... sorry for saying things like "please fuck off"....
> > >
> > > The thing for me is this: If I were a concert pianist and someone would have said the things about me that I did about Pressler, I would just shrug it off - at least if I were confident in my art. Depending on the person I'd maybe also respect his opinion and ask what he felt was wrong. I think it's detrimental to art to lecture others how to talk or think about it; you see, when listening to Pressler in 595, my thoughts were "I could do it better if I had enough time to practice this", and I think it's very harmful if you want to block such thoughts, like this individuality is at stake, which seems to be quite a problem in music business in general today. You are not even giving me reasonable arguments, but just attacking me; Marc you have not played x years piano, you are no concert pianist, you have not studied music etc and that's why you should just shut up.
> > >
> > > You react similarily to say catholics if you criticise the pope...
> > >
> > > I think good taste has much to do with some natural instinct or sth; Kant tied judgements of taste to moral judgements... and I think that how the world is constitued today (capitalism, culture industry etc - note: I am pro capitalist, but I am still critical of capitalism), people sort of get robbed of their taste... say when Mozart grew up, the world was still quieter and not as busy... but when kids grow up these days, it's all loud and very busy and hectic, being bombarded with simplistic but very driving bass rhythmns in pop music etc... and this affects them fundamentally... they sort of become apathetic, not more receptive of nuances etc. Just some thoughts...
> > >
> > > sometimes it feels to me that good art should just be as obvious as not to kill another human being... it is not sth to be argued about, it's just self-evident.
> > >
> > > And if you compare Horowitz and Pressler as a human being... Horowitz is lovable, Pressler is very unsympathetic. If you feel differently about this, that's fine... but you know he is just not a pianist I would ever consider to be one of the greatest, he is very uninspiring... and I think that's almost an objective fact; at least it seems obvious to me.
> > >
> > > There is this funny thing I read about him on a German forum and now I can't unsee it... when he plays chamber music, he always stares at his partners when they have entrances or sth... and it's fucking obnoxious
> > >
> > > Look here: https://youtu.be/uodJo4pvdQ0?t=77
> > >
> > > FWIW: I very likely would not have the touch of Pressler after 1 year, but I think I have better ideas... and I think at least wrt phrasing it wouldn't be impossible for me or for other people, if one studied diligently and had a feeling for Mozart, to get some parts better than pressler after 1 year... I was writing it with a smirk on my face btw.
> > No, I get it. Part of it with Pressler, for ME, is that, while the Beaux Arts Trio was not my favorite group by a long shot, I always thought they were very fine individual players, during their time. I had the absolutely bizarre experience in high school, in the late 70s, of being on stage with the trio for a Beethoven Triple concerto at Peabody…..sometimes truth is stranger than fiction. My main instrument was (and is) piano, but I also was a cellist of sorts during school years. A group I was involved with got asked to visit Peabody (read, they were trying to recruit string applicants) and they somehow came up with the idea of having us play alongside the Peabody student orchestra (under Fredrick Prausnitz) in this Beethoven Triple. So, as a 17 yr old, I was sitting 2nd chair cello for that…...Greenhouse was freaking unbelievable, and to be about 6 feet away…wow, what a thrill. Anyhow, Pressler, in particular, was very gracious in meeting and talking to us snot-nosed brats….got to give him some credit for that. Anyhow, what does that have to do with Pressler at 90? Very little, and sure, he’s pretty lumpy by then. I just didn’t have as strong a “shit-can” reaction as you, haha. Speaking of near geriatric K 595s….also in the 70s, I saw Horszowski/Ormandy/Philly in a K 595….it was Horsowski’s Philadelphia orch DEBUT…at age 87! I thought it was quite beautiful.
> Haha, that's a funny story and memory, but hmmm... in some ways I don't really understand your line of reasoning I guess. I would cherish the memory for the fun you had with your friends and playing in the orchestra, but I don't get the rest of it... if you didn't think of them as your favourite group by a long shot, I don't see any reason being amazed by sitting a few feet away from Greenhouse - I get that one is nervous, bevause he is famous.... But if I were to play in an orchestra and some cellist I wouldn't think of a great cellist by a long shot would play... I wouldn't see a reason to be especially happy about this, but as you have explained he seemd to have played well ;D Not a piece I like at all though...
>
> I also don't get what's so special about Pressler talking with you guys.... most normal thing to do imo...? Ofc can't be done in all cases... Did he say anythign special? Or were you just impressed because it was Pressler and he was kind of famous? I think he lacks personality, just as his playing.... Not trying to be mean here, just trying to say that I would cherish the memories for other reasons, I guess...

Well, I guess it is a funny thing…..I think Greenhouse was a fabulous cellist, so that’s what I meant, HE was the star of the group, imho, and that Beethoven Triple, whatever you think of the work (yeah, fair to middling Beethoven), that Cello part is a corker, and a showcase for the great ones.….I RESPECT the Beaux Arts long career and legacy, and some of their recordings are not bad at all….they are “fine” ……it just wasn’t really what I was “in to” then too much….was more interested in stuff like Cortot-Thibaud-Casals back then, and a bit annoyed that the “modern” style groups were kind of “normal” (i.e….bland)….not all wild, crazy and fun like those old guys. Now I’d rather listen to the Suk Trio or even something like Stern-Rose-Istomin (which I used to dislike…..go figure), many of the old Russian ad hoc groups that recorded, or SOME of the Rubinstein chamber music stuff (not the ones w/ Heifetz…not my cup of tea at all). I wish there were better sounding airchecks of the short lived (for me) dream team trio of Szigeti-Fournier-Schnabel. Pressler himself….I haven’t particularly had any “cult” experiences, but I don’t think the above Mozart is heinously bad….but yeah it’s 90 something kind of lumpy, but some nice things as well….I’m way more offended by the slick surfaced blandsters that seem the rage at the moment, and I’m not looking for “definitive” versions of works….just don’t want to be bored…..I’m never paying another $ to hear Trifonov put me to sleep…..right notes always, but punched out like a typewriter….guy has ZERO legato or music line. If some of you like him, can you explain? I’m genuinely curious. BTW, if you want a good Mozart concerto on BPO’s digital concert hall, try Andsnes and Blomstedt doing K. 482…..not SO much for Andsnes (well, he’s way better than the completely featureless Pires was with the same forces in K. 488) as for Blomstedt…I’m not sure I’ve ever heard a more gorgeously balanced (EVERYTHING sounds, but it’s harmoniously blended well too) Mozart concerto accompaniment. Not everything from Blomstedt is a gem these days, but damn, that’s a winner.

vhorowitz schrieb am Dienstag, 20. Juni 2023 um 05:02:53 UTC+2:
> On Monday, June 19, 2023 at 4:07:09 PM UTC-4, Marc S wrote:
> > vhorowitz schrieb am Sonntag, 18. Juni 2023 um 14:14:42 UTC+2:
> > > On Sunday, June 18, 2023 at 4:06:34 AM UTC-4, Marc S wrote:
> > > > vhorowitz schrieb am Sonntag, 18. Juni 2023 um 00:54:04 UTC+2:
> > > > > On Saturday, June 17, 2023 at 5:54:49 PM UTC-4, Marc S wrote:
> > > > > > Marc S schrieb am Samstag, 17. Juni 2023 um 23:18:00 UTC+2:
> > > > > > > vhorowitz schrieb am Samstag, 17. Juni 2023 um 16:25:04 UTC+2:
> > > > > > > > On Saturday, June 17, 2023 at 9:24:19 AM UTC-4, Herman wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Saturday, June 17, 2023 at 2:37:03 PM UTC+2, vhorowitz wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Apologies for the attack, but I think you need a dose of reality here.
> > > > > > > > > No apologies needed. It's so typical that he says "after a year of teaching MYSELF how to play piano".
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > There is literally no concert pianist whatsoever who was or is self-taught; it doesn't exist. But obviously this guy thinks all he needs is a year of admiring himself in the mirror and listening to himself talk and he's ready for Carnegie Hall.
> > > > > > > > Ha, yes….I guess one can learn to become a concert pianist by watching Youtube videos now.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Never claimed I could become a concert pianist; but sure, just screw around with reality in your head to make it fit your narrative. Seems you are a god damn moron... very similar to Herman...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I’m sure with the rise of AI there will be no end to those who will become “experts” in everything under the sun by plugging themselves into that BS.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Isn't it you who is AI trying to morally lecture others into obedience? Please fuck off.
> > > > > > "
> > > > > > *Got that wrong; obviosuly he didn't mean arrogant and ignorant, but artificial intelligence. Didn't read further than "experts" at first.... I was just like... god... so much idiocy here...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Anyway, seems he really fucked off haha.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > People very much not light hearted these days... Sorry guys, I told you what I think of Pressler ;D
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Only positive opinions accepted here. I see...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Sort of the ultimate cognitive dissonance elimination via cyber rose colored glasses. We’ll all be running around like the Lego movie’s “Everything is Awesome” character.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Now you are speaking about cognitive dissonance? Very funny....
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > See... Menahem Pressler just doesn't come close to my favourite Mozart pianists, and I think one can do much better. Sorry for making you whine.
> > > > > Yeah, sorry….bad day. Just forget it I opened my stupid mouth. I was trying to be funny, and you’re right….doesn’t work. Apologies.
> > > > Now I feel bad too... sorry for saying things like "please fuck off"...
> > > >
> > > > The thing for me is this: If I were a concert pianist and someone would have said the things about me that I did about Pressler, I would just shrug it off - at least if I were confident in my art. Depending on the person I'd maybe also respect his opinion and ask what he felt was wrong. I think it's detrimental to art to lecture others how to talk or think about it; you see, when listening to Pressler in 595, my thoughts were "I could do it better if I had enough time to practice this", and I think it's very harmful if you want to block such thoughts, like this individuality is at stake, which seems to be quite a problem in music business in general today. You are not even giving me reasonable arguments, but just attacking me; Marc you have not played x years piano, you are no concert pianist, you have not studied music etc and that's why you should just shut up.
> > > >
> > > > You react similarily to say catholics if you criticise the pope...
> > > >
> > > > I think good taste has much to do with some natural instinct or sth; Kant tied judgements of taste to moral judgements... and I think that how the world is constitued today (capitalism, culture industry etc - note: I am pro capitalist, but I am still critical of capitalism), people sort of get robbed of their taste... say when Mozart grew up, the world was still quieter and not as busy... but when kids grow up these days, it's all loud and very busy and hectic, being bombarded with simplistic but very driving bass rhythmns in pop music etc... and this affects them fundamentally... they sort of become apathetic, not more receptive of nuances etc. Just some thoughts...
> > > >
> > > > sometimes it feels to me that good art should just be as obvious as not to kill another human being... it is not sth to be argued about, it's just self-evident.
> > > >
> > > > And if you compare Horowitz and Pressler as a human being... Horowitz is lovable, Pressler is very unsympathetic. If you feel differently about this, that's fine... but you know he is just not a pianist I would ever consider to be one of the greatest, he is very uninspiring... and I think that's almost an objective fact; at least it seems obvious to me.
> > > >
> > > > There is this funny thing I read about him on a German forum and now I can't unsee it... when he plays chamber music, he always stares at his partners when they have entrances or sth... and it's fucking obnoxious
> > > >
> > > > Look here: https://youtu.be/uodJo4pvdQ0?t=77
> > > >
> > > > FWIW: I very likely would not have the touch of Pressler after 1 year, but I think I have better ideas... and I think at least wrt phrasing it wouldn't be impossible for me or for other people, if one studied diligently and had a feeling for Mozart, to get some parts better than pressler after 1 year... I was writing it with a smirk on my face btw.
> > > No, I get it. Part of it with Pressler, for ME, is that, while the Beaux Arts Trio was not my favorite group by a long shot, I always thought they were very fine individual players, during their time. I had the absolutely bizarre experience in high school, in the late 70s, of being on stage with the trio for a Beethoven Triple concerto at Peabody…..sometimes truth is stranger than fiction. My main instrument was (and is) piano, but I also was a cellist of sorts during school years. A group I was involved with got asked to visit Peabody (read, they were trying to recruit string applicants) and they somehow came up with the idea of having us play alongside the Peabody student orchestra (under Fredrick Prausnitz) in this Beethoven Triple. So, as a 17 yr old, I was sitting 2nd chair cello for that…..Greenhouse was freaking unbelievable, and to be about 6 feet away…wow, what a thrill. Anyhow, Pressler, in particular, was very gracious in meeting and talking to us snot-nosed brats….got to give him some credit for that. Anyhow, what does that have to do with Pressler at 90? Very little, and sure, he’s pretty lumpy by then. I just didn’t have as strong a “shit-can” reaction as you, haha. Speaking of near geriatric K 595s….also in the 70s, I saw Horszowski/Ormandy/Philly in a K 595….it was Horsowski’s Philadelphia orch DEBUT…at age 87! I thought it was quite beautiful.
> > Haha, that's a funny story and memory, but hmmm... in some ways I don't really understand your line of reasoning I guess. I would cherish the memory for the fun you had with your friends and playing in the orchestra, but I don't get the rest of it... if you didn't think of them as your favourite group by a long shot, I don't see any reason being amazed by sitting a few feet away from Greenhouse - I get that one is nervous, bevause he is famous... But if I were to play in an orchestra and some cellist I wouldn't think of a great cellist by a long shot would play... I wouldn't see a reason to be especially happy about this, but as you have explained he seemd to have played well ;D Not a piece I like at all though...
> >
> > I also don't get what's so special about Pressler talking with you guys.... most normal thing to do imo...? Ofc can't be done in all cases... Did he say anythign special? Or were you just impressed because it was Pressler and he was kind of famous? I think he lacks personality, just as his playing... Not trying to be mean here, just trying to say that I would cherish the memories for other reasons, I guess...
> Well, I guess it is a funny thing…..I think Greenhouse was a fabulous cellist, so that’s what I meant,

vhorowitz schrieb am Dienstag, 20. Juni 2023 um 05:02:53 UTC+2:
> On Monday, June 19, 2023 at 4:07:09 PM UTC-4, Marc S wrote:
> > vhorowitz schrieb am Sonntag, 18. Juni 2023 um 14:14:42 UTC+2:
> > > On Sunday, June 18, 2023 at 4:06:34 AM UTC-4, Marc S wrote:
> > > > vhorowitz schrieb am Sonntag, 18. Juni 2023 um 00:54:04 UTC+2:
> > > > > On Saturday, June 17, 2023 at 5:54:49 PM UTC-4, Marc S wrote:
> > > > > > Marc S schrieb am Samstag, 17. Juni 2023 um 23:18:00 UTC+2:
> > > > > > > vhorowitz schrieb am Samstag, 17. Juni 2023 um 16:25:04 UTC+2:
> > > > > > > > On Saturday, June 17, 2023 at 9:24:19 AM UTC-4, Herman wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Saturday, June 17, 2023 at 2:37:03 PM UTC+2, vhorowitz wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Apologies for the attack, but I think you need a dose of reality here.
> > > > > > > > > No apologies needed. It's so typical that he says "after a year of teaching MYSELF how to play piano".
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > There is literally no concert pianist whatsoever who was or is self-taught; it doesn't exist. But obviously this guy thinks all he needs is a year of admiring himself in the mirror and listening to himself talk and he's ready for Carnegie Hall.
> > > > > > > > Ha, yes….I guess one can learn to become a concert pianist by watching Youtube videos now.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Never claimed I could become a concert pianist; but sure, just screw around with reality in your head to make it fit your narrative. Seems you are a god damn moron... very similar to Herman...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I’m sure with the rise of AI there will be no end to those who will become “experts” in everything under the sun by plugging themselves into that BS.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Isn't it you who is AI trying to morally lecture others into obedience? Please fuck off.
> > > > > > "
> > > > > > *Got that wrong; obviosuly he didn't mean arrogant and ignorant, but artificial intelligence. Didn't read further than "experts" at first.... I was just like... god... so much idiocy here...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Anyway, seems he really fucked off haha.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > People very much not light hearted these days... Sorry guys, I told you what I think of Pressler ;D
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Only positive opinions accepted here. I see...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Sort of the ultimate cognitive dissonance elimination via cyber rose colored glasses. We’ll all be running around like the Lego movie’s “Everything is Awesome” character.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Now you are speaking about cognitive dissonance? Very funny....
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > See... Menahem Pressler just doesn't come close to my favourite Mozart pianists, and I think one can do much better. Sorry for making you whine.
> > > > > Yeah, sorry….bad day. Just forget it I opened my stupid mouth. I was trying to be funny, and you’re right….doesn’t work. Apologies.
> > > > Now I feel bad too... sorry for saying things like "please fuck off"...
> > > >
> > > > The thing for me is this: If I were a concert pianist and someone would have said the things about me that I did about Pressler, I would just shrug it off - at least if I were confident in my art. Depending on the person I'd maybe also respect his opinion and ask what he felt was wrong. I think it's detrimental to art to lecture others how to talk or think about it; you see, when listening to Pressler in 595, my thoughts were "I could do it better if I had enough time to practice this", and I think it's very harmful if you want to block such thoughts, like this individuality is at stake, which seems to be quite a problem in music business in general today. You are not even giving me reasonable arguments, but just attacking me; Marc you have not played x years piano, you are no concert pianist, you have not studied music etc and that's why you should just shut up.
> > > >
> > > > You react similarily to say catholics if you criticise the pope...
> > > >
> > > > I think good taste has much to do with some natural instinct or sth; Kant tied judgements of taste to moral judgements... and I think that how the world is constitued today (capitalism, culture industry etc - note: I am pro capitalist, but I am still critical of capitalism), people sort of get robbed of their taste... say when Mozart grew up, the world was still quieter and not as busy... but when kids grow up these days, it's all loud and very busy and hectic, being bombarded with simplistic but very driving bass rhythmns in pop music etc... and this affects them fundamentally... they sort of become apathetic, not more receptive of nuances etc. Just some thoughts...
> > > >
> > > > sometimes it feels to me that good art should just be as obvious as not to kill another human being... it is not sth to be argued about, it's just self-evident.
> > > >
> > > > And if you compare Horowitz and Pressler as a human being... Horowitz is lovable, Pressler is very unsympathetic. If you feel differently about this, that's fine... but you know he is just not a pianist I would ever consider to be one of the greatest, he is very uninspiring... and I think that's almost an objective fact; at least it seems obvious to me.
> > > >
> > > > There is this funny thing I read about him on a German forum and now I can't unsee it... when he plays chamber music, he always stares at his partners when they have entrances or sth... and it's fucking obnoxious
> > > >
> > > > Look here: https://youtu.be/uodJo4pvdQ0?t=77
> > > >
> > > > FWIW: I very likely would not have the touch of Pressler after 1 year, but I think I have better ideas... and I think at least wrt phrasing it wouldn't be impossible for me or for other people, if one studied diligently and had a feeling for Mozart, to get some parts better than pressler after 1 year... I was writing it with a smirk on my face btw.
> > > No, I get it. Part of it with Pressler, for ME, is that, while the Beaux Arts Trio was not my favorite group by a long shot, I always thought they were very fine individual players, during their time. I had the absolutely bizarre experience in high school, in the late 70s, of being on stage with the trio for a Beethoven Triple concerto at Peabody…..sometimes truth is stranger than fiction. My main instrument was (and is) piano, but I also was a cellist of sorts during school years. A group I was involved with got asked to visit Peabody (read, they were trying to recruit string applicants) and they somehow came up with the idea of having us play alongside the Peabody student orchestra (under Fredrick Prausnitz) in this Beethoven Triple. So, as a 17 yr old, I was sitting 2nd chair cello for that…..Greenhouse was freaking unbelievable, and to be about 6 feet away…wow, what a thrill. Anyhow, Pressler, in particular, was very gracious in meeting and talking to us snot-nosed brats….got to give him some credit for that. Anyhow, what does that have to do with Pressler at 90? Very little, and sure, he’s pretty lumpy by then. I just didn’t have as strong a “shit-can” reaction as you, haha. Speaking of near geriatric K 595s….also in the 70s, I saw Horszowski/Ormandy/Philly in a K 595….it was Horsowski’s Philadelphia orch DEBUT…at age 87! I thought it was quite beautiful.
> > Haha, that's a funny story and memory, but hmmm... in some ways I don't really understand your line of reasoning I guess. I would cherish the memory for the fun you had with your friends and playing in the orchestra, but I don't get the rest of it... if you didn't think of them as your favourite group by a long shot, I don't see any reason being amazed by sitting a few feet away from Greenhouse - I get that one is nervous, bevause he is famous... But if I were to play in an orchestra and some cellist I wouldn't think of a great cellist by a long shot would play... I wouldn't see a reason to be especially happy about this, but as you have explained he seemd to have played well ;D Not a piece I like at all though...
> >
> > I also don't get what's so special about Pressler talking with you guys.... most normal thing to do imo...? Ofc can't be done in all cases... Did he say anythign special? Or were you just impressed because it was Pressler and he was kind of famous? I think he lacks personality, just as his playing... Not trying to be mean here, just trying to say that I would cherish the memories for other reasons, I guess...
> Well, I guess it is a funny thing…..I think Greenhouse was a fabulous cellist, so that’s what I meant, HE was the star of the group, imho, and that Beethoven Triple, whatever you think of the work (yeah, fair to middling Beethoven), that Cello part is a corker, and a showcase for the great ones.….I RESPECT the Beaux Arts long career and legacy, and some of their recordings are not bad at all….they are “fine” ……it just wasn’t really what I was “in to” then too much….was more interested in stuff like Cortot-Thibaud-Casals back then, and a bit annoyed that the “modern” style groups were kind of “normal” (i.e….bland)….not all wild, crazy and fun like those old guys. Now I’d rather listen to the Suk Trio or even something like Stern-Rose-Istomin (which I used to dislike…..go figure), many of the old Russian ad hoc groups that recorded, or SOME of the Rubinstein chamber music stuff (not the ones w/ Heifetz…not my cup of tea at all). I wish there were better sounding airchecks of the short lived (for me) dream team trio of Szigeti-Fournier-Schnabel. Pressler himself….I haven’t particularly had any “cult” experiences, but I don’t think the above Mozart is heinously bad….but yeah it’s 90 something kind of lumpy, but some nice things as well….I’m way more offended by the slick surfaced blandsters that seem the rage at the moment, and I’m not looking for “definitive” versions of works….just don’t want to be bored…..I’m never paying another $ to hear Trifonov put me to sleep…...right notes always, but punched out like a typewriter….guy has ZERO legato or music line. If some of you like him, can you explain? I’m genuinely curious. BTW, if you want a good Mozart concerto on BPO’s digital concert hall, try Andsnes and Blomstedt doing K. 482…..not SO much for Andsnes (well, he’s way better than the completely featureless Pires was with the same forces in K. 488) as for Blomstedt…I’m not sure I’ve ever heard a more gorgeously balanced (EVERYTHING sounds, but it’s harmoniously blended well too) Mozart concerto accompaniment. Not everything from Blomstedt is a gem these days, but damn, that’s a winner.