https://youtu.be/6lvBQJjxw4c

LvB Piano Concerto no. 4
London Proms 2013
BRSO Janssons

Enjoy if you can.

dk

On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 11:37:07 AM UTC+1, Dan Koren wrote:
> https://youtu.be/6lvBQJjxw4c
>
> LvB Piano Concerto no. 4
> London Proms 2013
> BRSO Janssons
>
> Enjoy if you can.
>
> dk

Excellent

I really should get to know her solo Mozart better.

This morning I just listened to some excellent Schumann by Uchida.

In general it's a recommendation if DK hates something, he's got unfailing bad taste, and no idea whatsoever how music works.

On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 7:28:04 AM UTC-5, Herman wrote:
> This morning I just listened to some excellent Schumann by Uchida.
>
> In general it's a recommendation if DK hates something, he's got unfailing bad taste, and no idea whatsoever how music works.

Dan's right about Uchida.

Herman schrieb am Donnerstag, 29. Juni 2023 um 14:28:04 UTC+2:
> This morning I just listened to some excellent Schumann by Uchida.

Hear, hear.

I am very proud of you that you finally were brave enough to mention a performance that you liked against the odds that you and/or the performance might face some scrutiny. Well done little kid.

Quite sure though that Uchida is not the right choice for Schumann, just as that you don't have any understanding and feeling for Schumann... you don't seem like a person able to form any kind of connection with Schumann's music - at least imo; and I think you finding Uchida's Schumann excellent is just proof of this... sorry... just my opinion YMMV

On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 2:38:47 PM UTC+2, Lawrence Kart wrote:
> On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 7:28:04 AM UTC-5, Herman wrote:
> > This morning I just listened to some excellent Schumann by Uchida.
> >
> > In general it's a recommendation if DK hates something, he's got unfailing bad taste, and no idea whatsoever how music works.
> Dan's right about Uchida.
You mean you feel the same way.

taste is not a fact.

Lawrence Kart schrieb am Donnerstag, 29. Juni 2023 um 14:38:47 UTC+2:
> On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 7:28:04 AM UTC-5, Herman wrote:
> > This morning I just listened to some excellent Schumann by Uchida.
> >
> > In general it's a recommendation if DK hates something, he's got unfailing bad taste, and no idea whatsoever how music works.
> Dan's right about Uchida.

Amen. Just as he is in most cases; only wrt recent artists I often have doubts about his feelings...

Herman schrieb am Donnerstag, 29. Juni 2023 um 14:47:15 UTC+2:
> On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 2:38:47 PM UTC+2, Lawrence Kart wrote:
> > On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 7:28:04 AM UTC-5, Herman wrote:
> > > This morning I just listened to some excellent Schumann by Uchida.
> > >
> > > In general it's a recommendation if DK hates something, he's got unfailing bad taste, and no idea whatsoever how music works.
> > Dan's right about Uchida.
> You mean you feel the same way.
>
> taste is not a fact.

So there is no such thing as bad taste?

You are an idiot.

On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 2:38:47 PM UTC+2, Lawrence Kart wrote:
>
> Dan's right about Uchida.

So if he is "right" about the audience being tortured, how come they are applauding at the end?
How come they paid to be "tortured"?

Or did he simply mean the performance is not what he expects from Beethoven 4?
And do I remember correctly that he hates Beethoven?
So who is "torturing" himself here?

And what use is this kind of tortured posting?

Herman schrieb am Donnerstag, 29. Juni 2023 um 14:51:37 UTC+2:
> On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 2:38:47 PM UTC+2, Lawrence Kart wrote:
> >
> > Dan's right about Uchida.
> So if he is "right" about the audience being tortured, how come they are applauding at the end?
> How come they paid to be "tortured"?

They simply have bad taste, just as you do - and just as Dan has wrt Lang Lang for example...

>
> Or did he simply mean the performance is not what he expects from Beethoven 4?

Yes. But now Dan will also tell you the following: He does not expect anything from a performance, he just wants to like it and that he didn't like this.

> And do I remember correctly that he hates Beethoven?

The thing is, while Dan may be an idiot for hating Beethoven - I think he is being irrational here obviously - he still seems to have a good idea about what good Beethoven performances are.

And I experienced similar things; say I hate Beethoven PC 5 - yet I agree with Dan (interestingly before I knew it) about Horowitz's performance being one of the best here.

> So who is "torturing" himself here?

Seems to be you, no?

>
> And what use is this kind of tortured posting?

You seem like a tortured poster much more so than Dan lol

Herman schrieb am Donnerstag, 29. Juni 2023 um 14:28:04 UTC+2:
> This morning I just listened to some excellent Schumann by Uchida.
>
> In general it's a recommendation if DK hates something, he's got unfailing bad taste, and no idea whatsoever how music works.

See Herman... here you are proposing that DK does not know how music works - as if it were an objective fact.

Yet when Lawrence mentions it as an objective fact that DK is right about Uchida, you start crying... You are just like Double StAndy...

I'll tell you this: It is an objective fact that Dan knows much more about music than you ever did or will...

On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 9:07:02 AM UTC-4, Marc S wrote:
> Herman schrieb am Donnerstag, 29. Juni 2023 um 14:28:04 UTC+2:
> > This morning I just listened to some excellent Schumann by Uchida.
> >
> > In general it's a recommendation if DK hates something, he's got unfailing bad taste, and no idea whatsoever how music works.
> See Herman... here you are proposing that DK does not know how music works - as if it were an objective fact.
>
> Yet when Lawrence mentions it as an objective fact that DK is right about Uchida, you start crying... You are just like Double StAndy...
>
> I'll tell you this: It is an objective fact that Dan knows much more about music than you ever did or will...

I haven’t listened to much of Uchida over the years, but what I did just never particularly moved me to approve or disapprove, just kind of a “that’s nice”, while I could perhaps see why some would go for it. But a real head scratcher was her Schoenberg piano concerto (with BPO & Andris Nelsons, who is a big fat zero in terms of getting anything of interest going on with the orchestra). I can’t figure out why Uchida chose to play a work that she seems to have little empathy or connection with. Ok, maybe she loves it, but it came out as awkward and choppy and with no discernible shaping or expressive power or intensity. Aimard, while not a favorite of mine, has a MILES better version on the BPO streaming app from 2010.

On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 5:41:07 PM UTC+1, vhorowitz wrote:

> . . . Uchida . . . with no discernible shaping or expressive power or intensity.

This may well be true of the solo Mozart recordings. At least if someone thinks I'm not being fair to those performances, it would be nice if they'd point to something which is expressively powerful and intense. I also felt it was true of the Schubert in concert -- maybe the recordings are different.

In concert it wasn't true of her late Beethoven, there was a memorable op 109 - 111. And on record I don't think it's true of her Diabelli Variations. I certainly remember thinking the Schumann was rather interesting in a good way, and a distinctive way, I'll listen again soon. The Schoenberg solo I heard in concert (same concerts as the Schubert), it was OK -- better than the Schubert!

And then, there's the enigmatic Debussy. I blow hot and cold about that one.

>> https://youtu.be/6lvBQJjxw4c
>>
>> LvB Piano Concerto no. 4
>> London Proms 2013
>> BRSO Janssons

Her outfit made me wonder if there was inclement weather in the Royal
Albert Hall that day. If so, it must have cleared up by the end of the
first movement.

Whenever I see something in Royal Albert Hall, I half expect Doris Day
to stand up and scream.

I think Uchida fares better in the slow movement than in the outer
movements. I certainly like her better than the orchestra in the slow
movement. The first movement should have some qualities of a fantasy,
which seem to be missing here. If her facial expressions are any
indication, she clearly has feeling for the work, but for some reason
this doesn't come through in the music. But I don't think she ruins the
piece, either. I have liked her better in other repertoire.

On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 5:28:04 AM UTC-7, Herman wrote:
>
> This morning I just listened to some
> excellent Schumann by Uchida.
>

Uchida's Schumann is easily some of
the worst committed to record. You
really have no understanding of
piano performance.

You provided prima facie evidence of it
whe you recommended Eric Le Sage's
Schumann Piano Music set and made
me waste 32 hard earned dollars on it.

dk

On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 5:38:47 AM UTC-7, Lawrence Kart wrote:
>
> Dan's right about Uchida.

Only ?!? ;-)

On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 4:49:49 AM UTC-7, Mandryka wrote:
> On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 11:37:07 AM UTC+1, Dan Koren wrote:
> > https://youtu.be/6lvBQJjxw4c
> >
> > LvB Piano Concerto no. 4
> > London Proms 2013
> > BRSO Janssons
> >
> > Enjoy if you can.
>
> Excellent

?!? It is starched and mannered.

> I really should get to know
> her solo Mozart better.

Not worth anyone's time.

dk

On Thursday, 29 June 2023 at 17:58:01 UTC+1, Mandryka wrote:
>
> And then, there's the enigmatic Debussy. I blow hot and cold about that one.

Yes, that figures.

But she's a darling of the UK music critics, just like Mackerras, Te Kanawa, Brendel, Ashkenazy et al. Could all these music critics simply be wrong?

On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 3:17:13 PM UTC-7, Andy Evans wrote:
>
> But she's a darling of the UK music critics, just like
> Mackerras, Te Kanawa, Brendel, Ashkenazy et al.

What is the point of bundling together a bunch of
dissimilar artists for the sake of an argument?

> Could all these music critics simply be wrong?

Absolutely! The British Empire has been mostly
wrong for the past couple of centuries, in all
aspects of its operation, including of course
music.

dk

Op donderdag 29 juni 2023 om 18:58:01 UTC+2 schreef Mandryka:

> This may well be true of the solo Mozart recordings. At least if someone thinks I'm not being fair to those performances, it would be nice if they'd point to something which is expressively powerful and intense. I also felt it was true of the Schubert in concert -- maybe the recordings are different.

I agree.

> In concert it wasn't true of her late Beethoven, there was a memorable op 109 - 111. And on record I don't think it's true of her Diabelli Variations. I certainly remember thinking the Schumann was rather interesting in a good way, and a distinctive way, I'll listen again soon. The Schoenberg solo I heard in concert (same concerts as the Schubert), it was OK -- better than the Schubert!

I agree about late Beethoven - on CD.

> And then, there's the enigmatic Debussy. I blow hot and cold about that one.

Her Debussy has been praised since her participation in the QEC in Brussels, in 1968. I like her version of Études, although it doesn't make my top10.

Henk

On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 5:01:08 PM UTC-5, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 5:38:47 AM UTC-7, Lawrence Kart wrote:
> >
> > Dan's right about Uchida.
> Only ?!? ;-)

No, not only, But it's a start.

On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 6:17:15 PM UTC-7, Lawrence Kart wrote:
> On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 5:01:08 PM UTC-5, Dan Koren wrote:
> > On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 5:38:47 AM UTC-7, Lawrence Kart wrote:
> > >
> > > Dan's right about Uchida.
> > Only ?!? ;-)
> No, not only, But it's a start.

One of my overseas friends
like to say: "In China, there
is no right or wrong. There
is only light ol long. ;-)

dk

On Friday, June 30, 2023 at 12:00:22 AM UTC+2, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 5:28:04 AM UTC-7, Herman wrote:
> >
> > This morning I just listened to some
> > excellent Schumann by Uchida.
> >
> Uchida's Schumann is easily some of
> the worst committed to record. You
> really have no understanding of
> piano performance.
>
> You provided prima facie evidence of it
> whe you recommended Eric Le Sage's
> Schumann Piano Music set and made
> me waste 32 hard earned dollars on it.
>
> dk

This has nothing to do with musical performance.
You're probably just deaf.
There is no evidence you ever listened to anything.

Your "musical taste" is informed by ethnic hatred.
You hate the French, you hate the British.
you think they are antisemitic people.
All of them, of course.
That's why you hate Uchida, that's why you hate LeSage.
you haven't ever heard them. all you hear is your hate.

I have never ever made a recommendation.
All I have may have done is say, at some point,
that I liked this or that. I would never recommend
someone spend money or even listen to something
I like at some point,
Most of your evil posts are in the form of imperatives
Do this, do that. I never do that. Never.
The only imperative I ever used is
Go fuck yourself, which is unnecessary,
because that's what you do all day.

Not sure I made this sufficiently clear,
you're an evil person, you only come here
to do evil things, spew your ethnic hatred and be negative,
so as to make sure nobody enjoys classical music
just like you don't.

On Friday, 30 June 2023 at 11:19:51 UTC+10, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 6:17:15 PM UTC-7, Lawrence Kart wrote:
> > On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 5:01:08 PM UTC-5, Dan Koren wrote:
> > > On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 5:38:47 AM UTC-7, Lawrence Kart wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Dan's right about Uchida.
> > > Only ?!? ;-)
> > No, not only, But it's a start.
> One of my overseas friends
> like to say: "In China, there
> is no right or wrong. There
> is only light ol long. ;-)
>
> dk

Racist !!
;)

Ray Hall, Taree