The contents of the new Ormandy box forced me to adjust my own sense of chronolgy. After looking forward to receiving new remasterings of the Beethoven and Brahms symphonies, I was forced to realize that most of them were recorded after 1963, that, in fact, 1963 is further in the past than I was willing to admit. I was interested to learn, though, that Ormandy recorded the Brahms First Symphony twice for Columbia: once in 1959, which is included in the new set, and again in '68.
I was puzzled to find that the 1961 recording of Beethoven's "Eroica" Symphony was not included in the new set, nor was it mentioned in the accompanying "discography." I suppose they are planning to include the complete set of the symphonies in the next box, and decided not to either duplicate nor separate the Eroica from the other eight. Still, it seems to me that they reduced the value of the discography by failing to mention an important recording that was made and issued during the period covered by this release.

Larry Lapidus

On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 1:01:41 PM UTC-8, LarryLap wrote:
> The contents of the new Ormandy box forced me to adjust my own sense of chronolgy. After looking forward to receiving new remasterings of the Beethoven and Brahms symphonies, I was forced to realize that most of them were recorded after 1963, that, in fact, 1963 is further in the past than I was willing to admit. I was interested to learn, though, that Ormandy recorded the Brahms First Symphony twice for Columbia: once in 1959, which is included in the new set, and again in '68.
> I was puzzled to find that the 1961 recording of Beethoven's "Eroica" Symphony was not included in the new set, nor was it mentioned in the accompanying "discography." I suppose they are planning to include the complete set of the symphonies in the next box, and decided not to either duplicate nor separate the Eroica from the other eight. Still, it seems to me that they reduced the value of the discography by failing to mention an important recording that was made and issued during the period covered by this release.
>
> Larry Lapidus
It occurs to me that two other Beethoven Symphonies were recorded by Ormandy and released prior to 1964: Symphonies Eight and Nine. Has anyone spotted any other lacunae?

Larry Lapidus

On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 3:08:42 PM UTC-6, LarryLap wrote:
> On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 1:01:41 PM UTC-8, LarryLap wrote:
> > The contents of the new Ormandy box forced me to adjust my own sense of chronolgy. After looking forward to receiving new remasterings of the Beethoven and Brahms symphonies, I was forced to realize that most of them were recorded after 1963, that, in fact, 1963 is further in the past than I was willing to admit. I was interested to learn, though, that Ormandy recorded the Brahms First Symphony twice for Columbia: once in 1959, which is included in the new set, and again in '68.
> > I was puzzled to find that the 1961 recording of Beethoven's "Eroica" Symphony was not included in the new set, nor was it mentioned in the accompanying "discography." I suppose they are planning to include the complete set of the symphonies in the next box, and decided not to either duplicate nor separate the Eroica from the other eight. Still, it seems to me that they reduced the value of the discography by failing to mention an important recording that was made and issued during the period covered by this release..
> >
> > Larry Lapidus
> It occurs to me that two other Beethoven Symphonies were recorded by Ormandy and released prior to 1964: Symphonies Eight and Nine. Has anyone spotted any other lacunae?
>
> Larry Lapidus
Ormandy actually recorded the Brahms First three times for Columbia, once in 1950 (in the mono Ormandy set) and twice in stereo. As for "new remasterings," Sony apparently used the masterings that were issued by Sony Japan 10-15 years ago for those items.
I e-mailed producer Robert Russ to ask about the Eroica, and he confirmed that it will be in the second volume along with the other Beethoven symphonies. The real question concerns whether the reissue will include the exposition repeat, which was edited out of the recording in later pressings and in all reissues to date. Russ said he'd look into it. As for the Eighth and Ninth, they were released after 1963 (the Ninth was recorded in 1964), so they didn't make the cut.
Also not included in this set were the Bach items from the 1958 collection "The Beloved Choruses," with the Mormon Tabernacle Choir; Russ confirmed that these will be added to the later collection of Bach choruses in volume 2..

On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 1:28:58 PM UTC-8, Richard Kaplan wrote:
> On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 3:08:42 PM UTC-6, LarryLap wrote:
> > On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 1:01:41 PM UTC-8, LarryLap wrote:
> > > The contents of the new Ormandy box forced me to adjust my own sense of chronolgy. After looking forward to receiving new remasterings of the Beethoven and Brahms symphonies, I was forced to realize that most of them were recorded after 1963, that, in fact, 1963 is further in the past than I was willing to admit. I was interested to learn, though, that Ormandy recorded the Brahms First Symphony twice for Columbia: once in 1959, which is included in the new set, and again in '68.
> > > I was puzzled to find that the 1961 recording of Beethoven's "Eroica" Symphony was not included in the new set, nor was it mentioned in the accompanying "discography." I suppose they are planning to include the complete set of the symphonies in the next box, and decided not to either duplicate nor separate the Eroica from the other eight. Still, it seems to me that they reduced the value of the discography by failing to mention an important recording that was made and issued during the period covered by this release.
> > >
> > > Larry Lapidus
> > It occurs to me that two other Beethoven Symphonies were recorded by Ormandy and released prior to 1964: Symphonies Eight and Nine. Has anyone spotted any other lacunae?
> >
> > Larry Lapidus
> Ormandy actually recorded the Brahms First three times for Columbia, once in 1950 (in the mono Ormandy set) and twice in stereo. As for "new remasterings," Sony apparently used the masterings that were issued by Sony Japan 10-15 years ago for those items.
> I e-mailed producer Robert Russ to ask about the Eroica, and he confirmed that it will be in the second volume along with the other Beethoven symphonies. The real question concerns whether the reissue will include the exposition repeat, which was edited out of the recording in later pressings and in all reissues to date. Russ said he'd look into it. As for the Eighth and Ninth, they were released after 1963 (the Ninth was recorded in 1964), so they didn't make the cut.
> Also not included in this set were the Bach items from the 1958 collection "The Beloved Choruses," with the Mormon Tabernacle Choir; Russ confirmed that these will be added to the later collection of Bach choruses in volume 2.
Thank you, Richard, very much for providing the correct dates for symphonies 8 & 9; I mis-read a couple of listings on Discogs, and special thanks for employing your connection with Robert Russ on our behalf.

Larry Lapidus

I also noticed the Haydn Syms 96 & 101 weren't included.

Is there a projected release date for Volume 2?

On Tuesday, November 21, 2023 at 8:42:47 AM UTC-8, largo_57 wrote:
> I also noticed the Haydn Syms 96 & 101 weren't included.
>
> Is there a projected release date for Volume 2?
Discogs lists the Haydn record as having been issued in 1966.

Larry Lapidus

On Tuesday, November 21, 2023 at 5:11:38 PM UTC-8, LarryLap wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 21, 2023 at 8:42:47 AM UTC-8, largo_57 wrote:
> > I also noticed the Haydn Syms 96 & 101 weren't included.
> >
> > Is there a projected release date for Volume 2?
> Discogs lists the Haydn record as having been issued in 1966.
>
> Larry Lapidus
The Library of Congress number for the record is R65-2546, which pretty much settles the issue: wait for vol. 2.

True, if you are going by issue chronology. Recording-wise, they were made in 1961 & 1962.

> Where do you go to find such information?

Why, Richard Kaplan's Philadelphia Orchestra discography, of course!

On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 11:28:58 AM UTC-10, Richard Kaplan wrote:
> On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 3:08:42 PM UTC-6, LarryLap wrote:
> > On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 1:01:41 PM UTC-8, LarryLap wrote:
> > > The contents of the new Ormandy box forced me to adjust my own sense of chronolgy. After looking forward to receiving new remasterings of the Beethoven and Brahms symphonies, I was forced to realize that most of them were recorded after 1963, that, in fact, 1963 is further in the past than I was willing to admit. I was interested to learn, though, that Ormandy recorded the Brahms First Symphony twice for Columbia: once in 1959, which is included in the new set, and again in '68.
> > > I was puzzled to find that the 1961 recording of Beethoven's "Eroica" Symphony was not included in the new set, nor was it mentioned in the accompanying "discography." I suppose they are planning to include the complete set of the symphonies in the next box, and decided not to either duplicate nor separate the Eroica from the other eight. Still, it seems to me that they reduced the value of the discography by failing to mention an important recording that was made and issued during the period covered by this release.
> > >
> > > Larry Lapidus
> > It occurs to me that two other Beethoven Symphonies were recorded by Ormandy and released prior to 1964: Symphonies Eight and Nine. Has anyone spotted any other lacunae?
> >
> > Larry Lapidus
> Ormandy actually recorded the Brahms First three times for Columbia, once in 1950 (in the mono Ormandy set) and twice in stereo. As for "new remasterings," Sony apparently used the masterings that were issued by Sony Japan 10-15 years ago for those items.
> I e-mailed producer Robert Russ to ask about the Eroica, and he confirmed that it will be in the second volume along with the other Beethoven symphonies. The real question concerns whether the reissue will include the exposition repeat, which was edited out of the recording in later pressings and in all reissues to date. Russ said he'd look into it. As for the Eighth and Ninth, they were released after 1963 (the Ninth was recorded in 1964), so they didn't make the cut.
> Also not included in this set were the Bach items from the 1958 collection "The Beloved Choruses," with the Mormon Tabernacle Choir; Russ confirmed that these will be added to the later collection of Bach choruses in volume 2.

Do you know if the Grofe Grand Canyon Suite is the correct recording in the box? I've seen comments that it's the 67 not 57 in the box.

Eric

On Friday, December 8, 2023 at 9:34:09 PM UTC-6, wanwan wrote:
> On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 11:28:58 AM UTC-10, Richard Kaplan wrote:
> > On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 3:08:42 PM UTC-6, LarryLap wrote:
> > > On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 1:01:41 PM UTC-8, LarryLap wrote:
> > > > The contents of the new Ormandy box forced me to adjust my own sense of chronolgy. After looking forward to receiving new remasterings of the Beethoven and Brahms symphonies, I was forced to realize that most of them were recorded after 1963, that, in fact, 1963 is further in the past than I was willing to admit. I was interested to learn, though, that Ormandy recorded the Brahms First Symphony twice for Columbia: once in 1959, which is included in the new set, and again in '68.
> > > > I was puzzled to find that the 1961 recording of Beethoven's "Eroica" Symphony was not included in the new set, nor was it mentioned in the accompanying "discography." I suppose they are planning to include the complete set of the symphonies in the next box, and decided not to either duplicate nor separate the Eroica from the other eight. Still, it seems to me that they reduced the value of the discography by failing to mention an important recording that was made and issued during the period covered by this release.
> > > >
> > > > Larry Lapidus
> > > It occurs to me that two other Beethoven Symphonies were recorded by Ormandy and released prior to 1964: Symphonies Eight and Nine. Has anyone spotted any other lacunae?
> > >
> > > Larry Lapidus
> > Ormandy actually recorded the Brahms First three times for Columbia, once in 1950 (in the mono Ormandy set) and twice in stereo. As for "new remasterings," Sony apparently used the masterings that were issued by Sony Japan 10-15 years ago for those items.
> > I e-mailed producer Robert Russ to ask about the Eroica, and he confirmed that it will be in the second volume along with the other Beethoven symphonies. The real question concerns whether the reissue will include the exposition repeat, which was edited out of the recording in later pressings and in all reissues to date. Russ said he'd look into it. As for the Eighth and Ninth, they were released after 1963 (the Ninth was recorded in 1964), so they didn't make the cut.
> > Also not included in this set were the Bach items from the 1958 collection "The Beloved Choruses," with the Mormon Tabernacle Choir; Russ confirmed that these will be added to the later collection of Bach choruses in volume 2.
> Do you know if the Grofe Grand Canyon Suite is the correct recording in the box? I've seen comments that it's the 67 not 57 in the box.
>
> Eric
I haven't A/B'ed the recordings, but based on timings it's the 1967 version.. This doubtless happened because the Japanese Sony edition, SICC 1688, mistakenly used the 1967 recording while listing it as the 1957. Later pressings of SICC 1688 seem to have corrected this, but the correction didn't make it to this set. It's partially my fault: in my discography I listed the Japanese issue as the '57, trusting their recording date. Not sure what Sony plans to do about this.
Rich

On Thursday, December 14, 2023 at 12:52:39 AM UTC-5, Richard Kaplan wrote:
> On Friday, December 8, 2023 at 9:34:09 PM UTC-6, wanwan wrote:
> > On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 11:28:58 AM UTC-10, Richard Kaplan wrote:
> > > On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 3:08:42 PM UTC-6, LarryLap wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 1:01:41 PM UTC-8, LarryLap wrote:
> > > > > The contents of the new Ormandy box forced me to adjust my own sense of chronolgy. After looking forward to receiving new remasterings of the Beethoven and Brahms symphonies, I was forced to realize that most of them were recorded after 1963, that, in fact, 1963 is further in the past than I was willing to admit. I was interested to learn, though, that Ormandy recorded the Brahms First Symphony twice for Columbia: once in 1959, which is included in the new set, and again in '68.
> > > > > I was puzzled to find that the 1961 recording of Beethoven's "Eroica" Symphony was not included in the new set, nor was it mentioned in the accompanying "discography." I suppose they are planning to include the complete set of the symphonies in the next box, and decided not to either duplicate nor separate the Eroica from the other eight. Still, it seems to me that they reduced the value of the discography by failing to mention an important recording that was made and issued during the period covered by this release.
> > > > >
> > > > > Larry Lapidus
> > > > It occurs to me that two other Beethoven Symphonies were recorded by Ormandy and released prior to 1964: Symphonies Eight and Nine. Has anyone spotted any other lacunae?
> > > >
> > > > Larry Lapidus
> > > Ormandy actually recorded the Brahms First three times for Columbia, once in 1950 (in the mono Ormandy set) and twice in stereo. As for "new remasterings," Sony apparently used the masterings that were issued by Sony Japan 10-15 years ago for those items.
> > > I e-mailed producer Robert Russ to ask about the Eroica, and he confirmed that it will be in the second volume along with the other Beethoven symphonies. The real question concerns whether the reissue will include the exposition repeat, which was edited out of the recording in later pressings and in all reissues to date. Russ said he'd look into it. As for the Eighth and Ninth, they were released after 1963 (the Ninth was recorded in 1964), so they didn't make the cut.
> > > Also not included in this set were the Bach items from the 1958 collection "The Beloved Choruses," with the Mormon Tabernacle Choir; Russ confirmed that these will be added to the later collection of Bach choruses in volume 2.
> > Do you know if the Grofe Grand Canyon Suite is the correct recording in the box? I've seen comments that it's the 67 not 57 in the box.
> >
> > Eric
> I haven't A/B'ed the recordings, but based on timings it's the 1967 version. This doubtless happened because the Japanese Sony edition, SICC 1688, mistakenly used the 1967 recording while listing it as the 1957. Later pressings of SICC 1688 seem to have corrected this, but the correction didn't make it to this set. It's partially my fault: in my discography I listed the Japanese issue as the '57, trusting their recording date. Not sure what Sony plans to do about this.
> Rich

Rob Cowan confirmed (on Facebook) that Sony knows about the problem, and will provide replacement discs. Not sure of the contact for that, but probably the same as with the cd in the mono set (with Stern’s Tzigane)?

> > > Do you know if the Grofe Grand Canyon Suite is the correct recording in the box? I've seen comments that it's the 67 not 57 in the box.
> > >
> > > Eric
> > I haven't A/B'ed the recordings, but based on timings it's the 1967 version. This doubtless happened because the Japanese Sony edition, SICC 1688, mistakenly used the 1967 recording while listing it as the 1957. Later pressings of SICC 1688 seem to have corrected this, but the correction didn't make it to this set. It's partially my fault: in my discography I listed the Japanese issue as the '57, trusting their recording date. Not sure what Sony plans to do about this.
> > Rich
>
> Rob Cowan confirmed (on Facebook) that Sony knows about the problem, and will provide replacement discs. Not sure of the contact for that, but probably the same as with the cd in the mono set (with SternâEURTMs Tzigane)?

What replacement procedure was that?

On Thursday, December 14, 2023 at 1:38:08 PM UTC-5, Pluted Pup wrote:
> > > > Do you know if the Grofe Grand Canyon Suite is the correct recording in the box? I've seen comments that it's the 67 not 57 in the box.
> > > >
> > > > Eric
> > > I haven't A/B'ed the recordings, but based on timings it's the 1967 version. This doubtless happened because the Japanese Sony edition, SICC 1688, mistakenly used the 1967 recording while listing it as the 1957. Later pressings of SICC 1688 seem to have corrected this, but the correction didn't make it to this set. It's partially my fault: in my discography I listed the Japanese issue as the '57, trusting their recording date. Not sure what Sony plans to do about this.
> > > Rich
> >
> > Rob Cowan confirmed (on Facebook) that Sony knows about the problem, and will provide replacement discs. Not sure of the contact for that, but probably the same as with the cd in the mono set (with SternāEURTMs Tzigane)?
>
> What replacement procedure was that?

Email ines.kindlmann@sonymusic.com , include a copy of proof of purchase.

On Thursday, December 14, 2023 at 4:25:16 PM UTC-5, vhorowitz wrote:
> On Thursday, December 14, 2023 at 1:38:08 PM UTC-5, Pluted Pup wrote:
> > > > > Do you know if the Grofe Grand Canyon Suite is the correct recording in the box? I've seen comments that it's the 67 not 57 in the box.
> > > > >
> > > > > Eric
> > > > I haven't A/B'ed the recordings, but based on timings it's the 1967 version. This doubtless happened because the Japanese Sony edition, SICC 1688, mistakenly used the 1967 recording while listing it as the 1957. Later pressings of SICC 1688 seem to have corrected this, but the correction didn't make it to this set. It's partially my fault: in my discography I listed the Japanese issue as the '57, trusting their recording date. Not sure what Sony plans to do about this.
> > > > Rich
> > >
> > > Rob Cowan confirmed (on Facebook) that Sony knows about the problem, and will provide replacement discs. Not sure of the contact for that, but probably the same as with the cd in the mono set (with SternāEURTMs Tzigane)?
> >
> > What replacement procedure was that?
> Email ines.kindlmann@sonymusic.com , include a copy of proof of purchase.

Thank you!

Dennis H

On Friday, December 15, 2023 at 9:51:49 AM UTC-6, drh8h wrote:
> On Thursday, December 14, 2023 at 4:25:16 PM UTC-5, vhorowitz wrote:
> > On Thursday, December 14, 2023 at 1:38:08 PM UTC-5, Pluted Pup wrote:
> > > > > > Do you know if the Grofe Grand Canyon Suite is the correct recording in the box? I've seen comments that it's the 67 not 57 in the box.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Eric
> > > > > I haven't A/B'ed the recordings, but based on timings it's the 1967 version. This doubtless happened because the Japanese Sony edition, SICC 1688, mistakenly used the 1967 recording while listing it as the 1957. Later pressings of SICC 1688 seem to have corrected this, but the correction didn't make it to this set. It's partially my fault: in my discography I listed the Japanese issue as the '57, trusting their recording date. Not sure what Sony plans to do about this.
> > > > > Rich
> > > >
> > > > Rob Cowan confirmed (on Facebook) that Sony knows about the problem, and will provide replacement discs. Not sure of the contact for that, but probably the same as with the cd in the mono set (with SternāEURTMs Tzigane)?
> > >
> > > What replacement procedure was that?
> > Email ines.ki...@sonymusic.com , include a copy of proof of purchase.
> Thank you!
>
> Dennis H
I received my replacement for the Grofe disc a couple of days ago. A surprise, though: also enclosed was a copy of Disc 23, Handel and Corelli. As near as I can tell so far, it's identical to the original copy. Anybody have an idea why Sony replaced it?

Rich

On Sunday, February 4, 2024 at 6:00:35 PM UTC-10, Richard Kaplan wrote:
> On Friday, December 15, 2023 at 9:51:49 AM UTC-6, drh8h wrote:
> > On Thursday, December 14, 2023 at 4:25:16 PM UTC-5, vhorowitz wrote:
> > > On Thursday, December 14, 2023 at 1:38:08 PM UTC-5, Pluted Pup wrote:
> > > > > > > Do you know if the Grofe Grand Canyon Suite is the correct recording in the box? I've seen comments that it's the 67 not 57 in the box.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Eric
> > > > > > I haven't A/B'ed the recordings, but based on timings it's the 1967 version. This doubtless happened because the Japanese Sony edition, SICC 1688, mistakenly used the 1967 recording while listing it as the 1957. Later pressings of SICC 1688 seem to have corrected this, but the correction didn't make it to this set. It's partially my fault: in my discography I listed the Japanese issue as the '57, trusting their recording date. Not sure what Sony plans to do about this.
> > > > > > Rich
> > > > >
> > > > > Rob Cowan confirmed (on Facebook) that Sony knows about the problem, and will provide replacement discs. Not sure of the contact for that, but probably the same as with the cd in the mono set (with SternāEURTMs Tzigane)?
> > > >
> > > > What replacement procedure was that?
> > > Email ines.ki...@sonymusic.com , include a copy of proof of purchase.
> > Thank you!
> >
> > Dennis H
> I received my replacement for the Grofe disc a couple of days ago. A surprise, though: also enclosed was a copy of Disc 23, Handel and Corelli. As near as I can tell so far, it's identical to the original copy. Anybody have an idea why Sony replaced it?
>
> Rich

I believe the last notes of something were missing.

Eric