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arts / rec.music.classical.recordings / Re: Bruckner 5: is there a 4th dimension?

SubjectAuthor
* Bruckner 5: is there a 4th dimension?Roland van Gaalen
`* Bruckner 5: is there a 4th dimension?Alex Brown
 +- Bruckner 5: is there a 4th dimension?Herman
 +* Bruckner 5: is there a 4th dimension?Roland van Gaalen
 |`* Bruckner 5: is there a 4th dimension?Herman
 | `* Bruckner 5: is there a 4th dimension?Roland van Gaalen
 |  `- Bruckner 5: is there a 4th dimension?Roland van Gaalen
 `- Bruckner 5: is there a 4th dimension?mswd...@gmail.com

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Re: Bruckner 5: is there a 4th dimension?

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Subject: Re: Bruckner 5: is there a 4th dimension?
From: rolandvangaalen@gmail.com (Roland van Gaalen)
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 by: Roland van Gaalen - Sun, 3 Dec 2023 15:20 UTC

I wrote:
> Now it's 2019, I'm 60, and the time has come to do some serious listening.

Fast forward to 2023. I'm 65 now, and it's time for some VERY serious listening.

I just tried Bruckner 5 / Vienna Philharmonic / Haitink conducting / 1988.

DULL. EXTREMELY DULL.
Almost deadly!
I stopped in the middle of the adagio (ii).
Antidote:
Bruckner 5 / Concertgebouw / Van Beinum conducting / 1959.
What a contrast!
--
Roland van Gaalen
Amsterdam

Re: Bruckner 5: is there a 4th dimension?

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Subject: Re: Bruckner 5: is there a 4th dimension?
From: adjb@adjb.net (Alex Brown)
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 by: Alex Brown - Sun, 3 Dec 2023 17:24 UTC

On Sunday, 3 December 2023 at 15:20:47 UTC, Roland van Gaalen wrote:
> I wrote:
> > Now it's 2019, I'm 60, and the time has come to do some serious listening.
> Fast forward to 2023. I'm 65 now, and it's time for some VERY serious listening.
>
> I just tried Bruckner 5 / Vienna Philharmonic / Haitink conducting / 1988.
>
> DULL. EXTREMELY DULL.
> Almost deadly!
> I stopped in the middle of the adagio (ii).
> Antidote:
> Bruckner 5 / Concertgebouw / Van Beinum conducting / 1959.
> What a contrast!
> --
> Roland van Gaalen
> Amsterdam

Did Haitink make any top-notch Bruckner recordings? I recall a pretty good 7th (1978) and 9th (1980). Otherwise a lot of undercooked stuff from his early years and turgid stuff from later? Or are there days he was "on" and caught on tape?

- Alex.

Re: Bruckner 5: is there a 4th dimension?

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Subject: Re: Bruckner 5: is there a 4th dimension?
From: herstx@yahoo.com (Herman)
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 by: Herman - Sun, 3 Dec 2023 17:55 UTC

On Sunday, December 3, 2023 at 6:24:24 PM UTC+1, Alex Brown wrote:
>
> Did Haitink make any top-notch Bruckner recordings? I recall a pretty good 7th (1978) and 9th (1980). Otherwise a lot of undercooked stuff from his early years and turgid stuff from later? Or are there days he was "on" and caught on tape?
>
> - Alex.

Haitink is one of the post 1970 top Bruckner conductors, too bad you didn't notice.
You always need to go to recordings of live performances.
Haitink used to be a victim of perfectionist Philips producers who ironed the life out of the studio recordings.

A great one I have is the Profil Sixth with the Dresden Philharmonic.
I believe there are a couple of very good Sevenths on youtube.

Re: Bruckner 5: is there a 4th dimension?

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Subject: Re: Bruckner 5: is there a 4th dimension?
From: rolandvangaalen@gmail.com (Roland van Gaalen)
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 by: Roland van Gaalen - Sun, 3 Dec 2023 18:00 UTC

Alex Brown wrote:

> Did Haitink make any top-notch Bruckner recordings? I recall a pretty good 7th (1978) and 9th (1980).
> Otherwise a lot of undercooked stuff from his early years and turgid stuff from later?
> Or are there days he was "on" and caught on tape?

Actually, Haitink's 1971 studio recording of Bruckner 5 with the Concertgebouw Orchestra now sounds pretty good to me.

It seems to flow naturally, like a good live performance, and also like Van Beinum's Bruckner.

If the studio recording with the Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra feels cold, this one feels warm.

(Am I just imagining this? At this point I don't trust my judgment. Perhaps the Vienna recording is too restrained and too subtle for me?)
--
Roland van Gaalen
Amsterdam

Re: Bruckner 5: is there a 4th dimension?

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Subject: Re: Bruckner 5: is there a 4th dimension?
From: herstx@yahoo.com (Herman)
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 by: Herman - Sun, 3 Dec 2023 18:31 UTC

On Sunday, December 3, 2023 at 7:00:10 PM UTC+1, Roland van Gaalen wrote:
>
>
> If the studio recording with the Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra feels cold, this one feels warm.
>
> (Am I just imagining this? At this point I don't trust my judgment. Perhaps the Vienna recording is too restrained and too subtle for me?)
> --
The way I remember Haitink's Vienna Third and Eighth - they didn't do it for me. It's long time ago, but I seem to recall they felt contrived.In the case of the Third it may also have been the edition used.

Re: Bruckner 5: is there a 4th dimension?

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Subject: Re: Bruckner 5: is there a 4th dimension?
From: rolandvangaalen@gmail.com (Roland van Gaalen)
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 by: Roland van Gaalen - Sun, 3 Dec 2023 23:50 UTC

Op maandag 4 december 2023 om 00:24:39 UTC+1 schreef KimDenmark:
> Horenstein´s 5th (live recording) is something else and highly recommended (by me at least)

Yes!
Thanks for that recommendation; my first impression, after listening to the adagio, is that this is definitely & obviously a great, gorgeous performance!

BBC Orchestra, live, 1971 Proms
Jascha Horenstein (1989-1973) conducting

https://youtu.be/eOfz0VB8inA
--
Roland van Gaalen
Amsterdam

Re: Bruckner 5: is there a 4th dimension?

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Subject: Re: Bruckner 5: is there a 4th dimension?
From: rolandvangaalen@gmail.com (Roland van Gaalen)
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 by: Roland van Gaalen - Sun, 3 Dec 2023 23:54 UTC

> Jascha Horenstein (1989-1973) conducting

(1898-1973)

Re: Bruckner 5: is there a 4th dimension?

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Subject: Re: Bruckner 5: is there a 4th dimension?
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 by: mswd...@gmail.com - Mon, 4 Dec 2023 18:43 UTC

On Sunday, December 3, 2023 at 11:24:24 AM UTC-6, Alex Brown wrote:
> Did Haitink make any top-notch Bruckner recordings? I recall a pretty good 7th (1978) and 9th (1980). Otherwise a lot of undercooked stuff from his early years and turgid stuff from later? Or are there days he was "on" and caught on tape?

I very much enjoy 0-2, the first 3 (also the second VPO, but I find more spontaneity in the first), the second 7 and 9. The Dresden 6 is also quite fine. That makes him hit-and-miss, but the second 7 and 9 are absolutely top shelf. Obviously, there is not as much competition in 0-2, but I still think they are quite good.

arts / rec.music.classical.recordings / Re: Bruckner 5: is there a 4th dimension?

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