In article <d360e20e-2abd-462f-adf2-8b26731ed0f0n@googlegroups.com>,
Andy Evans <performanceandmedia@gmail.com> wrote:
>It was an emotional response during a traditional season of kindness
>and goodwill. That's all.

I think I already noted here that I've been kind of distracted
lately, moving homes after decades....

Anyway, I finally got some time to get back to some reading today,
and maybe this book is a good response:

https://houseofanansi.com/products/the-age-of-insecurity

On Wednesday, December 20, 2023 at 9:50:13 AM UTC-8, Andy Evans wrote:
>
> I withdraw everything. I want nothing
> whatever to do with this newsgroup
> again.

Not so fast. The committee demands
a written, signed, notarized confession
letter that can be framed and displayed
in the National Gallery or in the British
Museum. ;-)

Cheers

Where is Herman to provide Andy with some internet hugz as he usually does?

It has been 2 days already since Andy left r.m.c.r.
and the seismic shock wave has not yet reached
the US West Coast. Has it been detected anywhere
else on the planet? No tsunamis either .....

Cheers

On Dec 19, 2023 at 7:12:36 PM EST, "Andy Evans"
<performanceandmedia@gmail.com> wrote:

> I have a number of musical friends here after the many years I have been a
> member of it, and I will regret sharing posts with these lovely people.
>
> But this newsgroup is being wrecked by sick people and I want no more part in
> it. Simple as that......... nothing more to be said.
>
> Have a lovely Christmas, guys.
>
> Andy

I'm sad when any of our participants leave. Many of us have grown old
together, and this group, like most of Usenet, has a declining membership.

I'll remind everyone who are tired of the "sick people" here that a kill file
is a successful remedy.

Also: https://xkcd.com/386/

If you do leave us, Andy, good luck in your future!

-Owen

On Thursday, December 21, 2023 at 10:56:34 AM, Owen Hartnett wrote:
>
> I'm sad when any of our participants leave. Many of us have grown old
> together, and this group, like most of Usenet, has a declining membership..

I will be downloading Thunderbird as my Usenet client in the coming days. Not leaving! Andy will certainly be missed.

On 12/21/2023 6:15 AM, Dan Koren wrote:
> It has been 2 days already since Andy left r.m.c.r.
> and the seismic shock wave has not yet reached
> the US West Coast. Has it been detected anywhere
> else on the planet? No tsunamis either .....
>
> Cheers
>

He's just reducing is carbon footprint.

On 12/21/2023 2:29 PM, Oscar wrote:
> On Thursday, December 21, 2023 at 10:56:34 AM, Owen Hartnett wrote:
>>
>> I'm sad when any of our participants leave. Many of us have grown old
>> together, and this group, like most of Usenet, has a declining membership.
>
> I will be downloading Thunderbird as my Usenet client in the coming days. Not leaving! Andy will certainly be missed.

Yes, there will be no one to inform us of our environmental crimes and responsibilities.

Owen Hartnett wrote:

> I'm sad when any of our participants leave. Many of us have grown old
> together, and this group, like most of Usenet, has a declining membership.

Does Google's decision to not support any further usenet content from 22 February 2024 onwards spell the end of rec.music.classical.recordings on that date?

I suppose there are other free usenet providers, but will enough contributors connect to them to keep this newsgroup alive?
--
Roland van Gaalen (posting here on and off since 1995; yes, a newcomer compared with DK)
Amsterdam

On 12/21/2023 3:36 PM, Roland van Gaalen wrote:
> Owen Hartnett wrote:
>
>> I'm sad when any of our participants leave. Many of us have grown old
>> together, and this group, like most of Usenet, has a declining membership.
>
> Does Google's decision to not support any further usenet content from 22 February 2024 onwards spell the end of rec.music.classical.recordings on that date?
>
> I suppose there are other free usenet providers, but will enough contributors connect to them to keep this newsgroup alive?
> --
> Roland van Gaalen (posting here on and off since 1995; yes, a newcomer compared with DK)
> Amsterdam

As has been pointed out here many times (including earlier today, by me), Google Groups is only one of many front end to RMCR (which is a USENET news group. As far as I can see there are three possible reasons to use Google Groups instead of any number interfaces (such as Thunderbird, which is what I use). First, that it is free (as is Thunderbird), second that it is a very large, if not complete archive of RMCR posts (other interfaces all (?) have less history and may be a pain to load). Third, for computer novices you don't have to install anything. I very much doubt that the majority of RMCRers currently use Google Groups, but I could be wrong. For those that do, I have no way to predict how many will drop out rather than install something like Thunderbird.

On Dec 21, 2023 at 3:36:10 PM EST, "Roland van Gaalen"
<rolandvangaalen@gmail.com> wrote:

> Owen Hartnett wrote:
>
>> I'm sad when any of our participants leave. Many of us have grown old
>> together, and this group, like most of Usenet, has a declining membership.
>
> Does Google's decision to not support any further usenet content from 22
> February 2024 onwards spell the end of rec.music.classical.recordings on that
> date?

Usenet was here before Google and will remain so afterwards. Google just
provided a convenient setup to engage in usenet.

>
> I suppose there are other free usenet providers, but will enough contributors
> connect to them to keep this newsgroup alive?
>

How many contributors does it take to keep a newsgroup alive?

-Owen

On 2023-12-22 11:38 a.m., Owen Hartnett wrote:
> On Dec 21, 2023 at 3:36:10 PM EST, "Roland van Gaalen"
> <rolandvangaalen@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Owen Hartnett wrote:
>>
>>> I'm sad when any of our participants leave. Many of us have grown old
>>> together, and this group, like most of Usenet, has a declining membership.
>>
>> Does Google's decision to not support any further usenet content from 22
>> February 2024 onwards spell the end of rec.music.classical.recordings on that
>> date?
>
> Usenet was here before Google and will remain so afterwards. Google just
> provided a convenient setup to engage in usenet.
>
>>
>> I suppose there are other free usenet providers, but will enough contributors
>> connect to them to keep this newsgroup alive?
>>
>
> How many contributors does it take to keep a newsgroup alive?
>
> -Owen
The wine group has essentially *one* and the others there reply to him.

In article <c4b2654e-deb6-47f4-b576-ec8c6a487535n@googlegroups.com>,
raymond....@gmail.com <raymond.hallbear1@gmail.com> wrote:
>With a new news agent next year it will have to have a good kill-file
>ability or I will be out too.

They can all do this -- except Google.

>I am ashamed to be in the virtual company of the scum here.

I know how you feel, Ray. I prefer to ignore most of the noise,
but the feeling that I'm associated with the kinds of things said
here doesn't sit well, so sometimes I say something. Then of course
I'm dared to "engage" -- i.e. to add more to the garbage. And these
topics aren't raised to shed any light, but rather to generate heat.
It's a basic strategy of the far right online to end *all* friendly
conversations -- at least outside of controllable, for-profit
platforms. I know I'm repeating myself, but that's what's happening
here. It's probably also worth noting how much the specific figure
of the "far right Jew" fascinates the new generation of fascists.

So anyway, yeah, that's the game: Feel bad if you say something,
because you're only adding to it. Feel bad if you say nothing,
because it can seem like you think it's OK....

Graham wrote:
> Owen Hartnett wrote:

> > How many contributors does it take to keep a newsgroup alive?

> The wine group has essentially *one* and the others there reply to him.

Interesting configuration.

I suppose "the others" are not on speaking terms and use that one moderator only as a means for insulting each other indirectly rather than discussing wine.

(If so, the moderator could be automated or dispensed with altogether and no wine is needed.)
--
Roland van Gaalen
Amsterdam

On Thursday, December 21, 2023 at 12:36:13 PM UTC-8, Roland van Gaalen wrote:
>
> Does Google's decision to not support any further
> usenet content from 22 February 2024 onwards
> spell the end of rec.music.classical.recordings
> on that date?
>

This question reveals a profound misunderstanding
of what usenet newsgroups are and how they work.

Usenet groups have no centralized ownership, nor
are they under any one person's or organization's
control, nor is there any reference repository of
record of all the messages ever posted.

News providers set their own policies. Every
news provider has the latitude to decide what
messages to accept and what messages to
accept and what messages to block.

During the 1990s, a startup called Dejanews
made an attempt to become the de facto
reference repository for Usenet content.

This did not work out because the business
model (if there was one) did not generate
enough revenue to support the company.

Dejanews was acquired by Google in the
early 00s, which gave Google ownership
of arguably to most extensive collection
of Usenet content.

Google's decision to stop accepting new
Usenet content does not end any Usenet
group. It simply means that Google will
no longer accept and forward new posts.
Users will still be able to post new content
and read new content through their news
providers other than Google.

I hope this clarifies the matter. A decent
overview of how Usenet works is available
on the Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!

Cheers

On Wednesday, December 20, 2023 at 9:33:15 AM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:
> On 12/20/2023 6:50 AM, Andy Evans wrote:
> > On Wednesday 20 December 2023 at 03:25:56 UTC, Frank Berger wrote:
> >> Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
> >
> > Just a short postscript. When I said "wrecked by sick people" what I should have said is that this newsgroup is being systematically destroyed by a gang of 3 anti-gentiles, DK, Marc S and Frank Berger, who enthusiastically support the Gaza Massacre of over 12,000 women and children. These are more than sick people, they are a gang of career criminals. I can't share a newsgroup with career criminals, it makes me feel guilty by association and sick to the bottom of my stomach.
> There are arguments for supporting the Gaza war. First, that they (Hamas) started it and Israel simply can not let its citizens in the South (just wait to see what happens in the North) live in fear of terror. Thousands of Israelis have evacuated their homes (those that weren't burned by Hamas) because of incessant rocket attacks. No state could allow this to persist.
>
> Because Hamas is embedded in the civilian population of Gaza (a war crime), the only way for Israel to combat them is what they have done(allowed according to the rules of war). Assertions that Israel has engaged in indiscriminate bombing are ludicrous. Many Israel soldiers have been killed BECAUSE they are trying to be as discriminate as possible.
>
> To quote Hamas statistics on casualties is also ludicrous. Hamas never distinguishes between terrorists and non-terrorists in their statistics. Israel estimates that perhaps as many as 1/2 the casualties are Hamas.
>
> Now, it certainly is reasonable to be appalled and horrified by whatever the number of civilian casualties is. The first problem is that you have to be analytical in situations like this. You can't emotion alone rule your views. You've got to present an alternative Israeli response to the events of Oct. 7. I don't believe you have ever done so. Should Israel have just killed a proportionate 1200 random Gazans and kidnapped and tortured another 250 or so. Would that have satisfied you?
>
> Of course there would have been no point to that, since it would not deter Hamas at all. Should all Jewish Israelis (I assume you have nothing against Arab Israelis) have marched into the sea or maybe gone back to Poland, Russia, Ukraine, Latvia, Belarus, Egypt, Morocco, Tunisia and all the other places they "came from?"
>
> Maybe you are more reasonable than all that and simply think Israel should evacuate the West Bank. Then the Palestinians would live in peace with Israel forever more. Except the problem with that is that Hamas would immediately take over the West Bank as they did Gaza. Since Hamas' stated objective is not to wrest the West Bank from Israel, but to destroy Israel, it's hard to see how that could work.
>
> I know you've set you're quitting, but maybe you'd like to provide a rational response to this.

I've been away from this group for the better part of a year--newsreader problems, travel, busy with other things, and yes, the tenor of the place. I see that things have gotten more fraught, I suspect especially since October 7th, I imagine. That said, I think Frank's got far the best of the argument here. War is always horrible, and there are always civilian casualties, but hiding behind civilians, as Hamas has done, is just plain evil. The war could stop tomorrow if Hamas released the hostages and ceased resistance. But they won't, as their objective is the annihilation of Israel. Given that, Israel has no choice but to destroy their ability and will to resist, like Germany and Japan at the end of WWII. That's a sad truth, but truth it is.

On a completely different subject, I have been listening recently to as many performances of Richard Strauss's Metamorphosen as I've been able to find.. Has anyone here a favorite to recommend?

Bob Harper

On 12/28/2023 1:22 PM, rlhgbh wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 20, 2023 at 9:33:15 AM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:
>> On 12/20/2023 6:50 AM, Andy Evans wrote:
>>> On Wednesday 20 December 2023 at 03:25:56 UTC, Frank Berger wrote:
>>>> Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
>>>
>>> Just a short postscript. When I said "wrecked by sick people" what I should have said is that this newsgroup is being systematically destroyed by a gang of 3 anti-gentiles, DK, Marc S and Frank Berger, who enthusiastically support the Gaza Massacre of over 12,000 women and children. These are more than sick people, they are a gang of career criminals. I can't share a newsgroup with career criminals, it makes me feel guilty by association and sick to the bottom of my stomach.
>> There are arguments for supporting the Gaza war. First, that they (Hamas) started it and Israel simply can not let its citizens in the South (just wait to see what happens in the North) live in fear of terror. Thousands of Israelis have evacuated their homes (those that weren't burned by Hamas) because of incessant rocket attacks. No state could allow this to persist.
>>
>> Because Hamas is embedded in the civilian population of Gaza (a war crime), the only way for Israel to combat them is what they have done(allowed according to the rules of war). Assertions that Israel has engaged in indiscriminate bombing are ludicrous. Many Israel soldiers have been killed BECAUSE they are trying to be as discriminate as possible.
>>
>> To quote Hamas statistics on casualties is also ludicrous. Hamas never distinguishes between terrorists and non-terrorists in their statistics. Israel estimates that perhaps as many as 1/2 the casualties are Hamas.
>>
>> Now, it certainly is reasonable to be appalled and horrified by whatever the number of civilian casualties is. The first problem is that you have to be analytical in situations like this. You can't emotion alone rule your views. You've got to present an alternative Israeli response to the events of Oct. 7. I don't believe you have ever done so. Should Israel have just killed a proportionate 1200 random Gazans and kidnapped and tortured another 250 or so. Would that have satisfied you?
>>
>> Of course there would have been no point to that, since it would not deter Hamas at all. Should all Jewish Israelis (I assume you have nothing against Arab Israelis) have marched into the sea or maybe gone back to Poland, Russia, Ukraine, Latvia, Belarus, Egypt, Morocco, Tunisia and all the other places they "came from?"
>>
>> Maybe you are more reasonable than all that and simply think Israel should evacuate the West Bank. Then the Palestinians would live in peace with Israel forever more. Except the problem with that is that Hamas would immediately take over the West Bank as they did Gaza. Since Hamas' stated objective is not to wrest the West Bank from Israel, but to destroy Israel, it's hard to see how that could work.
>>
>> I know you've set you're quitting, but maybe you'd like to provide a rational response to this.
>
> I've been away from this group for the better part of a year--newsreader problems, travel, busy with other things, and yes, the tenor of the place. I see that things have gotten more fraught, I suspect especially since October 7th, I imagine. That said, I think Frank's got far the best of the argument here. War is always horrible, and there are always civilian casualties, but hiding behind civilians, as Hamas has done, is just plain evil. The war could stop tomorrow if Hamas released the hostages and ceased resistance. But they won't, as their objective is the annihilation of Israel. Given that, Israel has no choice but to destroy their ability and will to resist, like Germany and Japan at the end of WWII. That's a sad truth, but truth it is.
>
> On a completely different subject, I have been listening recently to as many performances of Richard Strauss's Metamorphosen as I've been able to find. Has anyone here a favorite to recommend?
>
> Bob Harper

Thanks, Bob. I've asked Andy and others a number of times (as I did above) for an alternative, any alternative, to Israel's response to Oct 7. None has been offered.