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arts / rec.music.classical.recordings / Re: Carlos Kleiber / Brahms 2 / Berlin Philharmonic 1989

SubjectAuthor
* Carlos Kleiber / Brahms 2 / Berlin Philharmonic 1989Roland van Gaalen
+* Carlos Kleiber / Brahms 2 / Berlin Philharmonic 1989Dan Koren
|+- Carlos Kleiber / Brahms 2 / Berlin Philharmonic 1989Marc S
|`- Carlos Kleiber / Brahms 2 / Berlin Philharmonic 1989Marc S
+* Carlos Kleiber / Brahms 2 / Berlin Philharmonic 1989Marc S
|`- Carlos Kleiber / Brahms 2 / Berlin Philharmonic 1989Dan Koren
`* Carlos Kleiber / Brahms 2 / Berlin Philharmonic 1989Dan Koren
 `- Carlos Kleiber / Brahms 2 / Berlin Philharmonic 1989Roland van Gaalen

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Carlos Kleiber / Brahms 2 / Berlin Philharmonic 1989

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Subject: Carlos Kleiber / Brahms 2 / Berlin Philharmonic 1989
From: rolandvangaalen@gmail.com (Roland van Gaalen)
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 by: Roland van Gaalen - Sun, 24 Dec 2023 19:41 UTC

https://youtu.be/e0m1ShElC5E
Is this recording exceptional?
I think so, at least compared with all other recordings of this piece that I have listened to. Can't find the right adjectives to describe it and do it justice, other than 'exceptional'.
--
Roland van Gaalen
Amsterdam

Re: Carlos Kleiber / Brahms 2 / Berlin Philharmonic 1989

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Subject: Re: Carlos Kleiber / Brahms 2 / Berlin Philharmonic 1989
From: dan.koren@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Mon, 25 Dec 2023 02:34 UTC

On Sunday, December 24, 2023 at 11:41:29 AM UTC-8, Roland van Gaalen wrote:
> https://youtu.be/e0m1ShElC5E
> Is this recording exceptional?

In a bad way.

> I think so, at least compared with
> all other recordings of this piece
> that I have listened to. Can't find
> the right adjectives to describe
> it and do it justice, other than
> 'exceptional'.

What other recordings of the
2nd were compared against?

Cheers

Re: Carlos Kleiber / Brahms 2 / Berlin Philharmonic 1989

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Subject: Re: Carlos Kleiber / Brahms 2 / Berlin Philharmonic 1989
From: marcs12212@gmail.com (Marc S)
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 by: Marc S - Mon, 25 Dec 2023 06:18 UTC

Horenstein (+ DRSO) and Celibidache (+ MP) would be my picks (I think I favor the Horenstein though - would have to relisten and compare).

Re: Carlos Kleiber / Brahms 2 / Berlin Philharmonic 1989

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Subject: Re: Carlos Kleiber / Brahms 2 / Berlin Philharmonic 1989
From: marcs12212@gmail.com (Marc S)
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 by: Marc S - Mon, 25 Dec 2023 06:20 UTC

Danish Radio Symphony Orchestra + Horenstein:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrfVQ6HHngY

Re: Carlos Kleiber / Brahms 2 / Berlin Philharmonic 1989

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Subject: Re: Carlos Kleiber / Brahms 2 / Berlin Philharmonic 1989
From: marcs12212@gmail.com (Marc S)
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 by: Marc S - Mon, 25 Dec 2023 22:34 UTC

I should probably keep the Celibidache box, his Brahms seems unsurpassed... and his Mozart 40 is no joke, same as his Beethoven...

Re: Carlos Kleiber / Brahms 2 / Berlin Philharmonic 1989

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Subject: Re: Carlos Kleiber / Brahms 2 / Berlin Philharmonic 1989
From: dan.koren@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Tue, 26 Dec 2023 00:50 UTC

On Monday, December 25, 2023 at 2:34:51 PM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:
>
> I should probably keep the Celibidache box,
> his Brahms seems unsurpassed... and his
> Mozart 40 is no joke, same as his Beethoven.

The recordings do not do Celibidache justice.
You should hear him live!

Cheers

Re: Carlos Kleiber / Brahms 2 / Berlin Philharmonic 1989

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Subject: Re: Carlos Kleiber / Brahms 2 / Berlin Philharmonic 1989
From: dan.koren@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Fri, 29 Dec 2023 05:02 UTC

On Sunday, December 24, 2023 at 11:41:29 AM UTC-8, Roland van Gaalen wrote:
>
> https://youtu.be/e0m1ShElC5E
> Is this recording exceptional?
> I think so, at least compared with all other
> recordings of this piece that I have listened
> to. Can't find the right adjectives to describe
> it and do it justice, other than 'exceptional'.
>

Lenny:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nKd-ia7_Lc

Cheers!

Re: Carlos Kleiber / Brahms 2 / Berlin Philharmonic 1989

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Subject: Re: Carlos Kleiber / Brahms 2 / Berlin Philharmonic 1989
From: rolandvangaalen@gmail.com (Roland van Gaalen)
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 by: Roland van Gaalen - Sat, 30 Dec 2023 16:14 UTC

Dan Koren wrote:
> Lenny:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nKd-ia7_Lc

Thank you for this recommendation, but I'm afraid I dislike it. I'm not claiming it's 'bad'; it's just not my cup of tea.

(i) Too slow, too heavy, too sweet. Klemperer knew how to make a grand interpretation work, and Furtwängler's propulsive Brahms was very expressive, but I think the symphonies by Brahms tend to benefit from a lighter, more elegant touch à la Haitink (in his Concertgebouw studio recordings on the Philips label).
(ii) This is really too much. The emotions are stretched out and fall apart, as it were; while I'm listening, I cannot sympathize with this, so to speak, or dream away)
(iii) Okay, but nothing special.
(iv) The best part of this performance.
I generally don't like the last two movements of this symphony, though.
--
Roland van Gaalen
Amsterdam

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