Guess I don't like Haydn much. I listened to the
33 CD Haydn Symphony set by Marzendorfer
as background music and I only grabbed 2
movements to put on my phone/car:

50.3 In C: Minuetto

75.2 in D: Poco Adagio (Andante Con Var)

That's how I do my title tagging, put the
symphony and movement number to make
things easier to identify.

Oh, well, I can listen again or and also listen to
Dorati's 33 CDs.

On 2/24/2024 12:20 AM, Pluted Pup wrote:
>
> Guess I don't like Haydn much. I listened to the
> 33 CD Haydn Symphony set by Marzendorfer
> as background music and I only grabbed 2
> movements to put on my phone/car:
>
> 50.3 In C: Minuetto
>
> 75.2 in D: Poco Adagio (Andante Con Var)
>
> That's how I do my title tagging, put the
> symphony and movement number to make
> things easier to identify.
>
> Oh, well, I can listen again or and also listen to
> Dorati's 33 CDs.
>
>

Sony is reissuing the "complete" set of Derek Solomons (supposedly in
Europe, although I only saw the announcement on HMV Japan). Used to be
quite special when if first came out on vinyl, and was only partially
published on cd. Unfortunately far from complete, but the Sturm und
Drang symphonies were quite wonderful.

https://www.hmv.co.jp/en/artist_Haydn-1732-1809_000000000018516/item_49-Symphonies-Derek-Solomons-L-Estro-Armonico-18CD-Limited_14640931

On 23 Feb 2024 Pluted Pup wrote:

> Guess I don't like Haydn much. I listened to the 33 CD Haydn Symphony
> set by Marzendorfer as background music and I only grabbed 2 movements
> to put on my phone/car:

> Oh, well, I can listen again or and also listen to Dorati's 33 CDs.

Guess I don't like Beethoven much. I just listened to his symphonies by
BPh/Karajan and RCO/Sawallisch and got bored ;-)
I suggest you try more recent (HIP or HIP-influenced) performances of
Haydn's symphonies. And btw, Haydn didn't only write symphonies.

Chris

Chris J. wrote:

> Guess I don't like Beethoven much. I just listened to his symphonies by
> BPh/Karajan and RCO/Sawallisch and got bored ;-)
> I suggest you try more recent (HIP or HIP-influenced) performances of
> Haydn's symphonies. And btw, Haydn didn't only write symphonies.

> Chris

He also wrote lots and lots of great string quartets, which I prefer to Mozart's. For the symphonies, I'm quite happy with Naxos, especially the recordings from the Esterhazy Sinfonia and the Northern Chamber Orchestra: on Big Dave's recommendation I will get the Adam Fischer / Danish Chamber Orchestra late symphonies and the Giovanni Rinaldini Haydn38 set, both in progress, with many the Rinaldini performances available on You Tube. I also have the Paris Symphonies from Tafelmusik under Bruno Weil, issued on their own label in the days when they did such things. And I can truthfully say that I enjoy the earlier symphonies as much as the later ones, if not more so. Here, the new chronology makes a big difference: the Morning/Noon/Night symphonies are now 18, 19 and 20 for example, not 6, 7 and 8, while the Hoboken no 73 is renumbered as number 30. The wonders of digitisation means that can I store these works in two folders: one with the whole lot in Hoboken catalogue order, and another with the first 75 in the new chronology order, after which the differences in the assumed order of publication are trivial.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra
posting via Novabbs

I think the wording is not quite 2020-and-after RMCR. Check the extensive logs by Mr SS Apfelstrudl.

One should come right out and say: Beethoven sucks, or, if you will, Haydn sucks. Just be honest. Everybody sucks! Yeah!

In the case of Haydn one is not just stunned by the incredible plenitude of his good to great works, but also the fact that he was pretty close to the invention of all of these forms, grand symphony, string quartet and serious piano sonata...

Herman wrote:

> I think the wording is not quite 2020-and-after RMCR. Check the extensive logs by Mr SS Apfelstrudl.

> One should come right out and say: Beethoven sucks, or, if you will, Haydn sucks. Just be honest. Everybody sucks! Yeah!

> In the case of Haydn one is not just stunned by the incredible plenitude of his good to great works, but also the fact that he was pretty close to the invention of all of these forms, grand symphony, string quartet and serious piano sonata...

"Oh Beethoven was OK. Some of the Contredances are quite good." - paraphrase of comment by the late Peter Schickele presenting the breakfast show on Radio WOOF.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

On Sat, 24 Feb 2024 00:55:54 -0800, Chris J. wrote:

> On 23 Feb 2024 Pluted Pup wrote:
>
> > Guess I don't like Haydn much. I listened to the 33 CD Haydn Symphony
> > set by Marzendorfer as background music and I only grabbed 2 movements
> > to put on my phone/car:
>
> > Oh, well, I can listen again or and also listen to Dorati's 33 CDs.
>
> Guess I don't like Beethoven much. I just listened to his symphonies by
> BPh/Karajan and RCO/Sawallisch and got bored ;-)
> I suggest you try more recent (HIP or HIP-influenced) performances of
> Haydn's symphonies. And btw, Haydn didn't only write symphonies.

You mean Fischer? I was discouraged because of the
included applause. I suppose I can listen to it, and
whatever grabs me I can copy to a computer, and cut out the
applause, which is what I do to applause in recordings.

It's disrespectful of engineers to sacrifice a
good recording for the sake of applause.

On Sat, 24 Feb 2024 05:51:43 -0800, Herman wrote:

> I think the wording is not quite 2020-and-after RMCR. Check the extensive logs by Mr SS Apfelstrudl.
>
> One should come right out and say: Beethoven sucks, or, if you will, Haydn sucks. Just be honest. Everybody sucks! Yeah!

So far I found two movements I liked, so I'm not saying
that Haydn sucks! Haydn is not Webern or Reich.

>
> In the case of Haydn one is not just stunned by the incredible plenitude of his good to great works, but also the fact that he was pretty close to the invention of all of these forms, grand symphony, string quartet and serious piano sonata...

That's fine, but I don't listen to structure or theory, I only listen
to classical music as a source of groovy tunes.

Pluted Pup wrote:

> On Sat, 24 Feb 2024 05:51:43 -0800, Herman wrote:

>> I think the wording is not quite 2020-and-after RMCR. Check the extensive logs by Mr SS Apfelstrudl.
>>
>> One should come right out and say: Beethoven sucks, or, if you will, Haydn sucks. Just be honest. Everybody sucks! Yeah!

> So far I found two movements I liked, so I'm not saying
> that Haydn sucks! Haydn is not Webern or Reich.

>>
>> In the case of Haydn one is not just stunned by the incredible plenitude of his good to great works, but also the fact that he was pretty close to the invention of all of these forms, grand symphony, string quartet and serious piano sonata...

> That's fine, but I don't listen to structure or theory, I only listen
> to classical music as a source of groovy tunes.

Try Michael Haydn. Or ABBA.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

Pluted Pup wrote:

> It's disrespectful of engineers to sacrifice a
> good recording for the sake of applause.

One can always remove the applause.
However that requires the computer
skills of a 5 year old.

Cheers

Pluted Pup wrote:
>
> I don't listen to structure or theory,
> I only listen to classical music as a
> source of groovy tunes.

No more pluted tunes for you ?!?

Cheers

On Sat, 24 Feb 2024 16:33:51 -0800, Ermintrudethecat wrote:

> Pluted Pup wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 24 Feb 2024 05:51:43 -0800, Herman wrote:
>
> > > I think the wording is not quite 2020-and-after RMCR. Check the extensive logs by Mr SS Apfelstrudl.
> > >
> > > One should come right out and say: Beethoven sucks, or, if you will, Haydn sucks. Just be honest. Everybody sucks! Yeah!
>
> > So far I found two movements I liked, so I'm not saying
> > that Haydn sucks! Haydn is not Webern or Reich.
>
> > >
> > > In the case of Haydn one is not just stunned by the incredible plenitude of his good to great works, but also the fact that he was pretty close to the invention of all of these forms, grand symphony, string quartet and serious piano sonata...
>
> > That's fine, but I don't listen to structure or theory, I only listen
> > to classical music as a source of groovy tunes.
>
> Try Michael Haydn.

Thanks for the tip! I also have a Joseph Haydn string quartet
box.

> Or ABBA.

I don't hear any decent tunes from the band ABBA.

If you mean the musical structure ABBA I wouldn't
hear a thing good if there's no good melodies there.

Structure is severely overrated. Of course,
'Modern Classical' says that structure is the *only* thing!

The Michael Haydn / ABBA recommendation may have been ironic. There are obviously plenty groovy tines in J. Haydn.

To continue what's bugging me about those Hurwitz videos - apart from the clowning and the horrendous out of tune singing that's helping nobody. He attacks Antonini because his orchestra is playing in a period style. He's always talking about this as if it's a faddish new thing that will go away if you just keep telling inexperienced viewers it's a fad. There is a certian segment of the classical music audience that just loves to regard period style as The Enemy. These are the people who want Same Old.

However, HIP is old, too. I remember listening to LPs with Haydn on fortepiano way before the digital age. These LPs were from the mid-seventies. Bruggen, Leonhardt and Harnoncourt started their careers in the Sixties! HIP has been around as long as the mid-twentieth century Ormandy / Bernstein glutinous style of orchestral playing has been. More than fifty years.

Il Giardino Armonico, Antonini's orchestra was founded in 1985. It's been around for forty years. It's not a new thing, it's what's been happening to Old Music and Pre-Classical for two or three generations now, and if old clowns like Hurwitz fin this threatening (note that there a lot of women musicians in these orchestras) that's their problem.

Most of all it's just marketing. All of these youtubers watch their view numbers and comment sections closely, and negative vids score a lot better than patiently talking about Bruckner 6 or something. People watching youtube seem to be in a negative mood by definition, or so it seems. Of course this guy is aware that some people respond well to his clowning and screeching and talk about 'personality', so he's been putting on more of a clown show since then, because it brings in more youtube money.

On Feb 24, 2024 at 12:20:52 AM EST, "Pluted Pup" <plutedpup@outlook.com>
wrote:

>
> Guess I don't like Haydn much. I listened to the
> 33 CD Haydn Symphony set by Marzendorfer
> as background music and I only grabbed 2
> movements to put on my phone/car:
>
> 50.3 In C: Minuetto
>
> 75.2 in D: Poco Adagio (Andante Con Var)
>
> That's how I do my title tagging, put the
> symphony and movement number to make
> things easier to identify.
>
> Oh, well, I can listen again or and also listen to
> Dorati's 33 CDs.

There are some fine performances in the "Big Haydn Box" available at Amazon
mp3 downloads for $1.00. (cheap!)

I particularly like the Esterhazy Orchestra with Blum and Griller String
Quartets.

-Owen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k5T6FNnx4A&t=993s

Symphony nr 98 in B flat major
Ton Koopman conducting youngsters from Berlin's Karajan Academy, 28 or 29 musicians in all.

An entirely delightful performance.

In article <b446235d7344e36d778752c577955460@www.novabbs.com>,
Herman <herst@online.nl> wrote:
>There is a certian segment of the classical music audience that
>just loves to regard period style as The Enemy. These are the
>people who want Same Old.

You make some reasonable observations already -- although I do hope
it's not e.g. about having more women....

I also wonder if it's a question of intimacy, by which I mean both
the size of the orchestral forces & how they interact. We both
seem to prefer smaller forces, and I think it adds to the intimacy
of the music. I also find it kind of perverse to have a whole
section of professional musicians ostensibly playing the exact same
part. A lot of HIP makes the orchestras smaller and lets you hear
the individual musicians more. From my perspective, what's not to
like about that?

But obviously some people want something else. It may mostly be a
matter of what is familiar, but seems like more....

>People watching youtube seem to be in a negative mood by definition,
>or so it seems.

Well, it's been observed for years online that making negative
comments is easier than saying anything meaningful positively. So
a lot of this is simple laziness.

Herman wrote:

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k5T6FNnx4A&t=993s

> Symphony nr 98 in B flat major
> Ton Koopman conducting youngsters from Berlin's Karajan Academy, 28 or 29 musicians in all.

> An entirely delightful performance.

I see you're back posting absolute shit again ;D

Welcome back!

JudeoN4zi wrote:

> Herman wrote:

>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k5T6FNnx4A&t=993s

>> Symphony nr 98 in B flat major
>> Ton Koopman conducting youngsters from Berlin's
>> Karajan Academy, 28 or 29 musicians in all.
>> An entirely delightful performance.

> I see you're back posting absolute shit again ;D
> Welcome back!

The world needs Herman's shit more than anyone
else's. Even more than Oscar's or Pluted Pup's
or Andy's.

Cheers

Herman wrote:

> One should come right out and say: Beethoven sucks, or, if you will, Haydn sucks. Just be honest. Everybody sucks! Yeah!

Not everybody, but you and koopman suck; most musicians do when compared to the best ;)

Herman wrote:

> The Michael Haydn / ABBA recommendation may have been ironic. There are obviously plenty groovy tines in J. Haydn.

> To continue what's bugging me about those Hurwitz videos - apart from the clowning and the horrendous out of tune singing that's helping nobody. He attacks Antonini because his orchestra is playing in a period style. He's always talking about this as if it's a faddish new thing that will go away if you just keep telling inexperienced viewers it's a fad. There is a certian segment of the classical music audience that just loves to regard period style as The Enemy. These are the people who want Same Old.

> However, HIP is old, too. I remember listening to LPs with Haydn on fortepiano way before the digital age. These LPs were from the mid-seventies. Bruggen, Leonhardt and Harnoncourt started their careers in the Sixties! HIP has been around as long as the mid-twentieth century Ormandy / Bernstein glutinous style of orchestral playing has been. More than fifty years.

> Il Giardino Armonico, Antonini's orchestra was founded in 1985. It's been around for forty years. It's not a new thing, it's what's been happening to Old Music and Pre-Classical for two or three generations now, and if old clowns like Hurwitz fin this threatening (note that there a lot of women musicians in these orchestras) that's their problem.

> Most of all it's just marketing. All of these youtubers watch their view numbers and comment sections closely, and negative vids score a lot better than patiently talking about Bruckner 6 or something. People watching youtube seem to be in a negative mood by definition, or so it seems. Of course this guy is aware that some people respond well to his clowning and screeching and talk about 'personality', so he's been putting on more of a clown show since then, because it brings in more youtube money.

Quality post? I don't think so. Just bitter old Herman being bitter about his life and letting it out on other people ;)

Another wonderful Ton Koopman-led London symphony, nr 96 in G major, this time with the Sinfonia de Galicia, reduced to something like 28 men and women.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzxM3Je93IQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLCzg8K7hOY

And a lovely 101, D major, the Clock by the Munich Chamber Orchestra, led by Bas Wiegers, who used to be Mariss Jansons' assistant at the Concertgebouw and is currently guesting all over the place.

Herman wrote:

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLCzg8K7hOY

> And a lovely 101, D major, the Clock by the
> Munich Chamber Orchestra, led by Bas Wiegers,
> who used to be Mariss Jansons' assistant at
> the Concertgebouw and is currently guesting
> all over the place.

Did you actually mean "ghosting"?!?

Cheers