One hardly dare open a musical topic here:

La Scala announced Maurizio Pollini died this week at age 82.

Especially in the early part of his career he did some pretty great things.

Herman wrote:

> One hardly dare open a musical topic here:

At least you dare to liken the Jews to the Nazis, fucking antisemite.

> La Scala announced Maurizio Pollini died this week at age 82.

Should've been you instead.

> Especially in the early part of his career he did some pretty great things.

Something you never did -- I imagine Herman telling his daughter that the Jews are the new Nazis lolol

Herman explaining what's happening Gaza to his daughter:

> It's a scorched earth strategy. In case food trucks have a chance of getting close to starving Palestinians, groups of settlers block the roads because they want Palestinians to leave or die. This has been going on for a long time.
> The beauty of this genocidal strategy is that not everything is coming down from central command, soldiers and civilians do this because they're happily working towards the complete obliteration of Palestinian life.
> It's the same as with those Polish, Lithuanian and Ukrainian villagers back in 1943 who were only too happy to help the SS shoot Jews in ditches because these people were bugging them.

-- completely retarded viewpoint ;) Only antisemitic minds would come up with this.

Interestingly Israel never shot foodtrucks, it's Hamas that steals the food.

https://www.jns.org/hamas-steals-food-from-its-citizens-yet-israel-gets-blamed/

"Hamas alone is employing starvation as a weapon of war. It knows enemies of Israel will blame the Jewish state, helping push Israel to end the war."

I've actually seen videos of this ;)

For German readers -- a very good page about Israel: mena-watch.com

https://www.mena-watch.com/die-luegen-des-josep-borrell/

--

Similar to how Germans believed Hitler and the Nazis everything they made up about the Jews, Herman believes everything Sinwar and Hamas make up about Jews :)

Jüdische Allgemeine:

"»Israel-Bashing führt zu Gewalt gegen Juden in Europa«: EJC-Präsident Ariel Muzicant kritisiert die israelfeindliche Rhetorik von Politikern wie dem EU-Chefdiplomaten Borrell."

"Israel-bashing leads to violence against Jews in Europe": EJC President Ariel Muzicant criticizes the anti-Israel rhetoric of politicians such as EU chief diplomat Borrell."

https://twitter.com/JuedischeOnline/status/1770770882740248758?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1770770882740248758%7Ctwgr%5E673a344ee8ed05a246075d4ae4f6594acf9ac659%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.mena-watch.com%2Fdie-luegen-des-josep-borrell%2F

Let us all thank Herman for contributing to antisemitism, by likening Jews to the Nazis :)

Antisemites like Herman in a nutshell:

Sudan’s human rights crisis and an exercise in global hypocrisy

"The intellectual class often takes pride in their commitment to humanity, frequently emphasizing their advocacy for human rights. However, this commitment remains selective, myopic and politically influenced. For instance, Hamas’ brutal attacks on civilians, including children, women, and the elderly, failed to elicit their concern. Only when Israel responded to what is considered the most severe attack against the Jewish population since the Holocaust did human rights become a focal point. Same thing happened with the humanitarian crisis involving Afghans in Pakistan. These individuals faced atrocious and inhumane expulsion by Pakistan. Yet, the intellectual class’ response to this crisis has been noticeably muted."

https://sundayguardianlive.com/opinion/sudans-human-rights-crisis-and-an-exercise-in-global-hypocrisy?fbclid=IwAR01VUoQKq2tYoPi8yU99B1etYcGwhAHfbzpFm6RUEd5rsN4t9e4kuzTdUs

JudeoN4zi wrote:

> Antisemites like Herman in a nutshell:

> Sudan’s human rights crisis and an exercise in global hypocrisy

> "The intellectual class often takes pride in their commitment to humanity, frequently emphasizing their advocacy for human rights. However, this commitment remains selective, myopic and politically influenced. For instance, Hamas’ brutal attacks on civilians, including children, women, and the elderly, failed to elicit their concern. Only when Israel responded to what is considered the most severe attack against the Jewish population since the Holocaust did human rights become a focal point. Same thing happened with the humanitarian crisis involving Afghans in Pakistan. These individuals faced atrocious and inhumane expulsion by Pakistan. Yet, the intellectual class’ response to this crisis has been noticeably muted."

> https://sundayguardianlive.com/opinion/sudans-human-rights-crisis-and-an-exercise-in-global-hypocrisy?fbclid=IwAR01VUoQKq2tYoPi8yU99B1etYcGwhAHfbzpFm6RUEd5rsN4t9e4kuzTdUs

Very important to add since it really fits Herman and his antisemitic friends perfectly - hypocrites:

"This raises questions about the genuine commitment to humanity and whether such concerns are driven by political motivations rather than an unwavering dedication to human rights. But can these two be isolated examples? Let’s take another case of Sudan."

On 3/23/24 9:23 AM, Herman wrote:

> One hardly dare open a musical topic here:
>
> La Scala announced Maurizio Pollini died this week at age 82.
>
>
> Especially in the early part of his career he did some pretty great things.

I'd be interested to know which of his recordings everyone thought
showed him at his best. One of my music professors, I recall, preferred
his 1975 album of Chopin Preludes above all others.

Tatonik wrote:

> On 3/23/24 9:23 AM, Herman wrote:

>> One hardly dare open a musical topic here:
>>
>> La Scala announced Maurizio Pollini died this week at age 82.
>>
>>
>> Especially in the early part of his career he did some pretty great things.

> I'd be interested to know which of his recordings everyone thought
> showed him at his best. One of my music professors, I recall, preferred
> his 1975 album of Chopin Preludes above all others.

Keep this thread alive so everyone can see what an antisemite Herman is, and what a dumbfuck you are ;)

'I'd be interested to know which of his recordings everyone thought
showed him at his best. One of my music professors, I recall, preferred
his 1975 album of Chopin Preludes above all others.'

I'd say the double album with Beethoven last sonatas; the Prokofiev 7th sonata; Stravinsky's mvts from Petrushka.

I heard some really fine live recitals, either in person or via radio, such as a wonderful Davidsbundlertänze from mid-eighties Salzburg.

His official recordings weren't helped by the way DG used to record piano music.

On 3/23/24 9:23 AM, Herman wrote:
> One hardly dare open a musical topic here:
>
> La Scala announced Maurizio Pollini died this week at age 82.
>
>
> Especially in the early part of his career he did some pretty great things.

Highly respected. Thanks for sharing the announcement.

On 3/23/24 12:04 PM, Tatonik wrote:
> On 3/23/24 9:23 AM, Herman wrote:
>
>> One hardly dare open a musical topic here:
>>
>> La Scala announced Maurizio Pollini died this week at age 82.
>>
>>
>> Especially in the early part of his career he did some pretty great
>> things.
>
> I'd be interested to know which of his recordings everyone thought
> showed him at his best.  One of my music professors, I recall, preferred
> his 1975 album of Chopin Preludes above all others.

His Boulez was a challenge to one of my profs! I like his Bartok concertos.

Herman wrote:

> One hardly dare open a musical topic here:

How is a person's demise a "musical topic"?

> La Scala announced Maurizio Pollini
> died this week at age 82.

He has already been dead for 30 years now.
Just listen to his performances and you
will not fail to notice it.

> Especially in the early part of his
> career he did some pretty great things.

Especially when compared to Dutch pianists.

Ciao!

Herman wrote:

> 'I'd be interested to know which of his
> recordings everyone thought showed him
> at his best. One of my music professors,
> I recall, preferred his 1975 album of
> Chopin Preludes above all others.'

It was released before Martha Argerich's,
and before Timofeyeva's, Virsaladze's,
Zhukov's, Freire's and Rodrigues'
performances surfaced.

Incidentally, how would a fiddle teacher
know anything about pianists and piano
music?

> I'd say the double album with Beethoven
> last sonatas; the Prokofiev 7th sonata;
> Stravinsky's mvts from Petrushka.

Dryer than chalk.

> I heard some really fine live recitals,
> either in person or via radio, such as
> a wonderful Davidsbundlertänze from
> mid-eighties Salzburg.

Dryer than dry chalk.

> His official recordings weren't helped
> by the way DG used to record piano music.

Quite the contrary, they were helped a lot.
He could not play like that live. His studio
recordings were heavily doctored.

Ciao!

Tatonik wrote:

> I'd be interested to know which of
> his recordings everyone thought
> showed him at his best.

https://www.discogs.com/release/5884861-Chopin-Maurizio-Pollini-Paul-Kletzki-Philharmonia-Orchestra-Piano-Concerto-N1

https://www.discogs.com/master/903206-Maurizio-Pollini-Chopin-A-Chopin-Recital-Two-Polonaises-Opp-44-53-Heroic-Four-Nocturnes-Opp-15-27-Ba

All downhill from there.

Ciao!

Herman wrote:

> I'd say the double album with Beethoven last sonatas; the Prokofiev 7th sonata; Stravinsky's mvts from Petrushka.

> I heard some really fine live recitals, either in person or via radio, such as a wonderful Davidsbundlertänze from mid-eighties Salzburg.

> His official recordings weren't helped by the way DG used to record piano music.

Yes, the earlier (1975?) late Beethoven Sonatas 2LP and the Chopin Preludes are both exemplary, imo, and two discs that I have played consistently over the course of the past years. He did not tour the U.S. much, if at all, over past 15 years. I never had the opportunity to see him. I should count my blessings I was at Zimerman's final U.S. recital in 2009, I suppose. Magical.

And yes, DG's house solo piano sound was gar-bajj (garbage).

Rest in peace. Thank you for yr extraordinary pianism, erudite advocacy for modernity and patrician manner, Sir.

Pseudo DeepBlue:

Herman wrote:

> 'I'd be interested to know which of his
> recordings everyone thought showed him
> at his best. One of my music professors,
> I recall, preferred his 1975 album of
> Chopin Preludes above all others.'

[...]

Incidentally, how would a fiddle teacher
know anything about pianists and piano
music?
-------------

If you adopt the moniker of a chess computer shouldn't you at least be able to quote with some degree of accuracy? You're quoting Tatonik. Not me. Over time I've come to see that fake attribution is one of your habits.

BTW neither Tatonik nor I are "a fiddle teacher". Apart from fake quoting you also indulge in weird fantasies.

Also, it's prettyy evident your phony expertise, or even familiarity with piano ticklers, is just a front for a lifelong envy of performers who didn't quit and made a career instead of sitting behind a pc keyboard and snipe.
Your comments about Pollini are yet another disgrace.

DeepBlue wrote:

> Quite the contrary, they were helped a lot.
> He could not play like that live. His studio
> recordings were heavily doctored.

You see, returning to the topic of "sound photoshop", if a musician is a bad pianist, but manages to edit his performance in a way that sounds beautiful, he has a musical ear -- so while he might not be a good pianist, he still might be a good musician - not saying that this is true about Pollini.

Music either sounds good or sounds bad -- I don't care if the performance is live or if it has been doctored.

> Ciao!

Oscar wrote:

> And yes, DG's house solo piano sound was gar-bajj (garbage).

Not nearly as trashy as you are ;) Wonder what your Jewish grandpa would say about being friendly to people who liken Jews to the Nazis.

JudeoN4zi wrote:

> DeepBlue wrote:
>
>> Quite the contrary, they were helped a
>> lot. He could not play like that live.
>> His studio recordings were heavily
>> doctored.
>
> You see, returning to the topic of
>"sound photoshop",

The photoshop analogy is fundamentally
flawed. Photos are static images that
do not change while being viewed and
stay forever as they are. They may be
"improved" by retouching within reason.

Music performances on the other hand
are temporal, ephemeral events. Post
performance changes are simply fraud.

When Richter recorded the Wanderer for
EMI/HMV in 1963 in Paris, he played it
8 times back to back at Wagram, then
picked one of the 8 recordings for
release. No retouching was done.

> if a musician is a bad pianist, but
> manages to edit his performance in a
> way that sounds beautiful, he has a
> musical ear -- so while he might not
> be a good pianist, he still might be
> a good musician - not saying that this
> is true about Pollini.

Except one doesn't know who actually
edits the recording. More often than
not it is someone other than the artist.

> Music either sounds good or sounds bad
> -- I don't care if the performance is
> live or if it has been doctored.

So if someone manages to create a
compellingly sounding recording of
a musical work through completely
electronic means -- e.g. using a
MIDI equipped piano driven by a
computer -- would you call that
"person" a "great pianist"? If
so I should maybe try my hand
at it.

Ciao!

On 24/03/2024 1:54 pm, Oscar wrote:
> Herman wrote:
>
> Rest in peace. Thank you for yr extraordinary pianism, erudite advocacy
> for modernity and patrician manner, Sir.

Agree. Shame that a renowned artist's passing should be hijacked by nazi
trash, spouting their usual hatred.

Ray Hall, Taree

DeepBlue wrote:

> The photoshop analogy is fundamentally
> flawed. Photos are static images that
> do not change while being viewed and
> stay forever as they are. They may be
> "improved" by retouching within reason.

I put photoshop in parantheses... we all know what was meant...

> Music performances on the other hand
> are temporal, ephemeral events. Post
> performance changes are simply fraud.

No they are not, it's still music you are hearing - edited performances are still temporal and ephemeral events - so your point makes no sense... It's no fraud if it's mentioned as such. It would be fraud if the pianist claimed to be able to play it as it sounded on the record (recording something already changes the performance as you well know -- something Celibidache was aware of as well; so a recorded performance could be considered "inauthentic"/"fraud" as well ;) )

Where do you start with editing? Isn't it already editing when you use different microphones to record the piano from different angles etc? Shouldn't you be putting the microphone in the audience?

Why do you think Richter played in the dark? Because it was only about the music, not about the performance ;)

> When Richter recorded the Wanderer for
> EMI/HMV in 1963 in Paris, he played it
> 8 times back to back at Wagram, then
> picked one of the 8 recordings for
> release. No retouching was done.

Similar to many other pianists -- that's a legitimate method.

Gould did things differently ;) and he's a genius musician.

>> if a musician is a bad pianist, but
>> manages to edit his performance in a
>> way that sounds beautiful, he has a
>> musical ear -- so while he might not
>> be a good pianist, he still might be
>> a good musician - not saying that this
>> is true about Pollini.

> Except one doesn't know who actually
> edits the recording. More often than
> not it is someone other than the artist.

That's true - but if the music sounds good, it sounds good -- that's all I care about in the end.

>> Music either sounds good or sounds bad
>> -- I don't care if the performance is
>> live or if it has been doctored.

> So if someone manages to create a
> compellingly sounding recording of
> a musical work through completely
> electronic means -- e.g. using a
> MIDI equipped piano driven by a
> computer -- would you call that
> "person" a "great pianist"? If
> so I should maybe try my hand
> at it.

Seems you did not understand my point: He would not be a great pianist, but a great musician... which is what I literally said in the post you are referring to...

> Ciao!

JudeoN4zi wrote:

> Why do you think Richter played in the dark? Because it was only about the music, not about the performance ;)

Monsaingeon, p. 108, "That's why I now play in the dark, to empty my head of all non-essential thoughts and allow the listener to concentrate on the music rather than on the performer. What's the point of watching a pianist's hands or face, when they only express the efforts being expended on the piece?"

On 3/23/2024 1:04 PM, Tatonik wrote:
>> La Scala announced Maurizio Pollini died this week at age 82.
>> Especially in the early part of his career he did some pretty great
>> things.
> I'd be interested to know which of his recordings everyone thought
> showed him at his best.

Ok, taking the bait. Free disposal. In chronological order:

For starters, literally, the recordings at the 1960 Chopin competition,
with an amazing Mazurka Op.50 No.3. And the Chopin PC1 with Kletzki
slightly later.

Then the great decade with an avalanche of benchmark recordings. To
mention just a few: The 1971 Petrushka. The outstanding 1973 Schumann's
Fantasie Op.17, and the PS1 quite close. In 1974 the Schoenberg complete
piano works and perhaps the Chopin Preludes. In 1975 the Chopin
Polonaises and Beethoven Op.109. In 1976 the never surpassed
Boulez-Webern combo. In 1977 Beethoven Hammerklavier and Bartok PC2 with
Abbado, and sofferte onde serene by Nono. In 1979 the Brahms Piano
Quintet Op.34 with the Italiano, top recommendation after all these
years. In 1981 the Schumann Symphonic Etudes Op.13.

Afterwards, a couple of honorable mentions: the 2001 Schumann's Songs of
Dawn, and the 2008-9 Bach WTC1

I am less enthusiastic about his Schubert, Mozart, and Debussy with the
possible exception of the 1992 Etudes. The 1972 Chopin Etudes remain a
classic but I find other versions -say Cortot (1934) or Ashkenazy (1959)
or Sokolov (1985) - more compelling

'Then the great decade with an avalanche of benchmark recordings. To
mention just a few: The 1971 Petrushka. The outstanding 1973 Schumann's
Fantasie Op.17, and the PS1 quite close. In 1974 the Schoenberg complete
piano works and perhaps the Chopin Preludes. In 1975 the Chopin
Polonaises and Beethoven Op.109. In 1976 the never surpassed
Boulez-Webern combo. In 1977 Beethoven Hammerklavier and Bartok PC2 with
Abbado, and sofferte onde serene by Nono. In 1979 the Brahms Piano
Quintet Op.34 with the Italiano, top recommendation after all these
years. '

I agree.

I do see a lot of unfortunate choices in his career.

One cannot help and try to imagine what would have happened if he had not imposed years of silence on himself after the Chopin competition. Did he really need to study with ABM afterwards, and boost his austere self-criticism even more?

Perhaps Deutsche Grammophone wasn't the best home for Pollini, pushing his perfectionism even more, while giving him crappy sound in return.

There's this harrowing story of his last London recital, Pollini losing it in the first page of the Schumann Fantasie, just noodling arpeggios till he stopped and walked away. The audience gave him a standing ovation, which may have been very gratifying for them, but possibly the worst thing that could happen to a performer as perfectionistic as Pollini.

Herman wrote:
>
> There's this harrowing story of his last
> London recital, Pollini losing it in the
> first page of the Schumann Fantasie, just
> noodling arpeggios till he stopped and
> walked away. The audience gave him a
> standing ovation, which may have been
> very gratifying for them, but possibly
> the worst thing that could happen to a
> performer as perfectionistic as Pollini.

I heard Pawllini "losing it" in 2000-2001
in London, in 1991-1992 in San Francisco,
and in 1982-1983 in Tel-Aviv. He was quite
a loser! ;-)

Cheers