Rocksolid Light

Welcome to Rocksolid Light

mail  files  register  newsreader  groups  login

Message-ID:  

It's the thought, if any, that counts!


arts / rec.music.beatles / John Sinclair 1941 - 2024

SubjectAuthor
* John Sinclair 1941 - 2024Norbert
`* Re: John Sinclair 1941 - 2024oldernow
 `* Re: John Sinclair 1941 - 2024Norbert
  `* Re: John Sinclair 1941 - 2024oldernow
   `* Re: John Sinclair 1941 - 2024Norbert
    `- Re: John Sinclair 1941 - 2024oldernow

1
John Sinclair 1941 - 2024

<b2f916ea00824ccda29a0d24dc7a8d63@www.novabbs.com>

  copy mid

https://news.novabbs.org/arts/article-flat.php?id=6594&group=rec.music.beatles#6594

  copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.beatles
Path: i2pn2.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: nyarlathotep1@hotmail.com (Norbert)
Newsgroups: rec.music.beatles
Subject: John Sinclair 1941 - 2024
Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2024 11:26:51 +0000
Organization: novaBBS
Message-ID: <b2f916ea00824ccda29a0d24dc7a8d63@www.novabbs.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Info: i2pn2.org;
logging-data="276977"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@i2pn2.org";
posting-account="t+lO0yBNO1zGxasPvGSZV1BRu71QKx+JE37DnW+83jQ";
User-Agent: Rocksolid Light
X-Rslight-Posting-User: 05d5d5e52669eca42e38920c6347d42e869d5fb8
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 4.0.0
X-Rslight-Site: $2y$10$Pz2KK.9euPn1W2C6ZMz4SulU6idZ5cbWmzSiMJQQO15I6Lg0sbNv2
 by: Norbert - Sat, 6 Apr 2024 11:26 UTC

John Sinclair, the subject of John Lennon's protest song "John Sinclair," died a few days ago at age 82. Lennon was unacquainted with Sinclair when he wrote that song. However, he and Yoko had been groping around for hippie causes to sing about in the early 70s, and they sympathized with Sinclair's plight -- he'd been locked up for giving a modest quantity of marijuana to an undercover cop.

In fact, much of that late 60s/early 70s hippie scene were fixated on Sinclair. During the Who's set at Woodstock, Abbie Hoffman leapt onstage and began to rant into the microphone about Sinclair. Pete Townshend whacked him offstage with his guitar, snarling "Get the f*ck off my f*cking stage."

Sinclair's prison sentence was reduced, and he eventually met John and Yoko. "The first time I met [John Lennon,]" Sinclair recalled in the early 80s, "to express my appreciation for his help, we sat around and smoked quite a bit of herb, and made the fact that the stuff was illegal the object of much laughter and ridicule."

Re: John Sinclair 1941 - 2024

<slrnv12h35.v24.oldernow@oldernow.jethrick.com>

  copy mid

https://news.novabbs.org/arts/article-flat.php?id=6596&group=rec.music.beatles#6596

  copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.beatles
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: oldernow@dev.null (oldernow)
Newsgroups: rec.music.beatles
Subject: Re: John Sinclair 1941 - 2024
Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2024 12:47:35 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 51
Message-ID: <slrnv12h35.v24.oldernow@oldernow.jethrick.com>
References: <b2f916ea00824ccda29a0d24dc7a8d63@www.novabbs.com>
Reply-To: xyz001@nym.hush.com
Injection-Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2024 12:47:35 +0200 (CEST)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="30bdca8d16f7d81c09cb074a70fd4372";
logging-data="2202655"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/Hzznv/D15Jzy//OulQVUPRHbbMsrlhco="
User-Agent: slrn/1.0.3 (Linux)
Cancel-Lock: sha1:bckZrrVjctxfnXM81Om7DV/U7kI=
 by: oldernow - Sat, 6 Apr 2024 12:47 UTC

On 2024-04-06, Norbert <nyarlathotep1@hotmail.com> wrote:

> John Sinclair, the subject of John Lennon's protest song
> "John Sinclair," died a few days ago at age 82. Lennon
> was unacquainted with Sinclair when he wrote that song.
> However, he and Yoko had been groping around for hippie
> causes to sing about in the early 70s, and they sympathized
> with Sinclair's plight -- he'd been locked up for giving
> a modest quantity of marijuana to an undercover cop.
>
> In fact, much of that late 60s/early 70s hippie scene were
> fixated on Sinclair. During the Who's set at Woodstock,
> Abbie Hoffman leapt onstage and began to rant into the
> microphone about Sinclair. Pete Townshend whacked him
> offstage with his guitar, snarling "Get the f*ck off my
> f*cking stage."
>
> Sinclair's prison sentence was reduced, and he eventually
> met John and Yoko. "The first time I met [John Lennon,]"
> Sinclair recalled in the early 80s, "to express my
> appreciation for his help, we sat around and smoked quite
> a bit of herb, and made the fact that the stuff was illegal
> the object of much laughter and ridicule."

Huh.

I either never knew the details due to disinterest in social
"causes", or forgot.

But Lennon was just two years younger than my dad, so I couldn't
possibly have been interested in "causes" in the 60s. I did think
marijuana being illegal seemed silly back in the 70s. I bought
exactly one "quarter ounce" from a friend's younger brother. $20. My
gosh, I made the most of that with trumpet player lungs that
could hold onto the smoke until every last effective molecule was
extracted.... :-)

Lennon's "causes" phase just seemed silly to me. Orthogonal to
his true talents. I recall listening to him in interviews talk
about such, and my inner appraisal of his intelligence dropped
significantly. He actually sounded more like a dolt than the guy I
thought knew damned near everything. It was an early wakeup call
into how much character I mistakenly endowed artists with, which
is probably more an idolatry side-effect, so desperately wanting
the artists to be "more" than just their art.

Something like that....

--
oldernow
xyz001 at nym.hush.com

Re: John Sinclair 1941 - 2024

<a5515e1cc4f9f47e6e0ed904d0ee05fc@www.novabbs.com>

  copy mid

https://news.novabbs.org/arts/article-flat.php?id=6597&group=rec.music.beatles#6597

  copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.beatles
Path: i2pn2.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: nyarlathotep1@hotmail.com (Norbert)
Newsgroups: rec.music.beatles
Subject: Re: John Sinclair 1941 - 2024
Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2024 18:06:22 +0000
Organization: novaBBS
Message-ID: <a5515e1cc4f9f47e6e0ed904d0ee05fc@www.novabbs.com>
References: <b2f916ea00824ccda29a0d24dc7a8d63@www.novabbs.com> <slrnv12h35.v24.oldernow@oldernow.jethrick.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Info: i2pn2.org;
logging-data="307778"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@i2pn2.org";
posting-account="t+lO0yBNO1zGxasPvGSZV1BRu71QKx+JE37DnW+83jQ";
User-Agent: Rocksolid Light
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 4.0.0
X-Rslight-Posting-User: 05d5d5e52669eca42e38920c6347d42e869d5fb8
X-Rslight-Site: $2y$10$CuCAKIKixOsTd2X7uIzX..7l.0yx1qetCzPkXwU/z5JzvEIF/W8m.
 by: Norbert - Sat, 6 Apr 2024 18:06 UTC

I think Lennon's radical phase -- the causes he took up, the freaks he associated with, the songs he wrote -- is cringeworthy. I think he truly *had* lost a lot of his intelligence due to all the drug use and his associations with people -- including Yoko and Alex Mardas -- who were cons and predators.

I don't think any of this would have happened if Lennon hadn't turned his life into "a continuous acid trip" in the words of his close friend Pete Shotton. The constant dope smoking could not have helped, either.

I had a phase in which I smoked more than my share of marijuana. I stopped using it because its effect became unpleasant, leaving me anxious and paranoid. I'm thankful for this -- because I'm not among the local glazed-eyed freaks shuffling about and muttering about the Storm, the Cabal, or Hollywood's being run by devil-worshipping vampires.

In fairness, I have friends who use marijuana and have stayed sane and functional. There's something about the people, or the dope, or the *amount* of the dope consumed around here (suburban Massachusetts) that has resulted in their transforming into psychotic freaks.

Re: John Sinclair 1941 - 2024

<slrnv13hmd.v24.oldernow@oldernow.jethrick.com>

  copy mid

https://news.novabbs.org/arts/article-flat.php?id=6598&group=rec.music.beatles#6598

  copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.beatles
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: oldernow@dev.null (oldernow)
Newsgroups: rec.music.beatles
Subject: Re: John Sinclair 1941 - 2024
Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2024 22:03:58 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 61
Message-ID: <slrnv13hmd.v24.oldernow@oldernow.jethrick.com>
References: <b2f916ea00824ccda29a0d24dc7a8d63@www.novabbs.com>
<slrnv12h35.v24.oldernow@oldernow.jethrick.com>
<a5515e1cc4f9f47e6e0ed904d0ee05fc@www.novabbs.com>
Reply-To: xyz001@nym.hush.com
Injection-Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2024 22:03:58 +0200 (CEST)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="16bb3570e81c965b381237bd5a75058b";
logging-data="2450462"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+IklztBgBdbvbYkPPS9FBojSeyDvpbLVc="
User-Agent: slrn/1.0.3 (Linux)
Cancel-Lock: sha1:AaY21NHm3h6tmmVwWNwGPxxFWGg=
 by: oldernow - Sat, 6 Apr 2024 22:03 UTC

On 2024-04-06, Norbert <nyarlathotep1@hotmail.com> wrote:

> I think Lennon's radical phase -- the causes he took up,
> the freaks he associated with, the songs he wrote -- is
> cringeworthy. I think he truly *had* lost a lot of his
> intelligence due to all the drug use and his associations
> with people -- including Yoko and Alex Mardas -- who were
> cons and predators.

I'm not convinced he ever was truly intelligent. Clever quips and
rhymes can seem that way. The modern day equivalents are memes,
tweets, single sentence post replies, etc., which people post with
look-at-how-smart-I-am-for-posting-this pride as though the mere
act of posting such proves their being oh so wise. I don't see
being able to rhyme words a skill too much beyond posting memes.

To me, intelligence can carry a multi-point argument across lots of
paragraphs (although, of course, many are talented at surrounding
just so much nothingness with well-written verbosity).

Back to John specifically. I was a kid reading a whole lot of
intelligence into lyrics, into how he seemed in AHDN (and, of
course, his behavior therein was that of a *character* designed
to appear clever/witty), and the occasional snappy quote that made
into the media.

By the time I heard him speak unscripted for any significant amount
of time, I was nearing adulthood, and was sorely disappointed. I
honestly wish I'd never heard him speak outside of his field of
expertise. I'd have much rather listened to him discuss the
experiences that inspired the songs.

But it could have been many factors: the points you made, his being
out of his conceptual strong zone on topics like politics, war,
drugs, possibly having to kowtow to what Yoko expected him to say.

Regardless, I learned more *through* him about the power of my own
idolatry than about any topic he non sequitur'd on about.

> I had a phase in which I smoked more than my share of
> marijuana. I stopped using it because its effect became
> unpleasant, leaving me anxious and paranoid. I'm thankful
> for this -- because I'm not among the local glazed-eyed
> freaks shuffling about and muttering about the Storm,
> the Cabal, or Hollywood's being run by devil-worshipping
> vampires.
>
> In fairness, I have friends who use marijuana and have
> stayed sane and functional. There's something about the
> people, or the dope, or the *amount* of the dope consumed
> around here (suburban Massachusetts) that has resulted in
> their transforming into psychotic freaks.

I never had a problem with it, although I was a lightweight by
force of economics. These days I use carefully cut gummy chunks as
a sleep aid. The "high" doesn't compare to what I can experience
contemplating any number of spiritual texts.

--
oldernow
xyz001 at nym.hush.com

Re: John Sinclair 1941 - 2024

<e507271b7ec42d7e4648b11d7d073870@www.novabbs.com>

  copy mid

https://news.novabbs.org/arts/article-flat.php?id=6600&group=rec.music.beatles#6600

  copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.beatles
Path: i2pn2.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: nyarlathotep1@hotmail.com (Norbert)
Newsgroups: rec.music.beatles
Subject: Re: John Sinclair 1941 - 2024
Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2024 13:20:48 +0000
Organization: novaBBS
Message-ID: <e507271b7ec42d7e4648b11d7d073870@www.novabbs.com>
References: <b2f916ea00824ccda29a0d24dc7a8d63@www.novabbs.com> <slrnv12h35.v24.oldernow@oldernow.jethrick.com> <a5515e1cc4f9f47e6e0ed904d0ee05fc@www.novabbs.com> <slrnv13hmd.v24.oldernow@oldernow.jethrick.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Info: i2pn2.org;
logging-data="395457"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@i2pn2.org";
posting-account="t+lO0yBNO1zGxasPvGSZV1BRu71QKx+JE37DnW+83jQ";
User-Agent: Rocksolid Light
X-Rslight-Site: $2y$10$i.iWZQtSDR54siRZKlWSJ.PiqdpJE8nqNNWTLKf0GV1cNb9N0/8d.
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 4.0.0
X-Rslight-Posting-User: 05d5d5e52669eca42e38920c6347d42e869d5fb8
 by: Norbert - Sun, 7 Apr 2024 13:20 UTC

That's an outstanding post and I agree with you. I maintain that there was a decrease in the post-LSD Lennon's powers of discernment, however. The pre-acid John Lennon would have found characters like Ono and Alex Mardas and probably the Maharishi daft. I'm not sure the younger Lennon would have gone for Janov's purported therapy, either; he said once that what attracted him to it was the word "scream"; he probably supposed this was a sort of vindication of Yoko's singing style.

Also, while the younger Lennon could manage the occasional amusing pun and quip, even this deteriorated, giving way to Ono-promotion, hostility towards his Beatles work, and paranoia (e.g., his statement that McCartney would "subconsciously sabotage" his work.

Re: John Sinclair 1941 - 2024

<slrnv1593l.v24.oldernow@oldernow.jethrick.com>

  copy mid

https://news.novabbs.org/arts/article-flat.php?id=6602&group=rec.music.beatles#6602

  copy link   Newsgroups: rec.music.beatles
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: oldernow@dev.null (oldernow)
Newsgroups: rec.music.beatles
Subject: Re: John Sinclair 1941 - 2024
Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2024 13:49:42 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 52
Message-ID: <slrnv1593l.v24.oldernow@oldernow.jethrick.com>
References: <b2f916ea00824ccda29a0d24dc7a8d63@www.novabbs.com>
<slrnv12h35.v24.oldernow@oldernow.jethrick.com>
<a5515e1cc4f9f47e6e0ed904d0ee05fc@www.novabbs.com>
<slrnv13hmd.v24.oldernow@oldernow.jethrick.com>
<e507271b7ec42d7e4648b11d7d073870@www.novabbs.com>
Reply-To: xyz001@nym.hush.com
Injection-Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2024 13:49:42 +0200 (CEST)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="16bb3570e81c965b381237bd5a75058b";
logging-data="2966556"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX186LF4QiIQzo/vas5TdC7Wjop4WFqWU06c="
User-Agent: slrn/1.0.3 (Linux)
Cancel-Lock: sha1:XtqzyKIN0WDRM+rTAXTt3TRsfqI=
 by: oldernow - Sun, 7 Apr 2024 13:49 UTC

On 2024-04-07, Norbert <nyarlathotep1@hotmail.com> wrote:

> That's an outstanding post and I agree with you. I maintain
> that there was a decrease in the post-LSD Lennon's powers
> of discernment, however. The pre-acid John Lennon would
> have found characters like Ono and Alex Mardas and probably
> the Maharishi daft. I'm not sure the younger Lennon would
> have gone for Janov's purported therapy, either; he said
> once that what attracted him to it was the word "scream";
> he probably supposed this was a sort of vindication of
> Yoko's singing style.
>
> Also, while the younger Lennon could manage the occasional
> amusing pun and quip, even this deteriorated, giving way
> to Ono-promotion, hostility towards his Beatles work,
> and paranoia (e.g., his statement that McCartney would
> "subconsciously sabotage" his work.

I tried LSD once, and psilocybin (mushrooms) twice. No "bad trips"
in an overt sense, e.g. screaming/sobbing about monsters. But
it definitely undermined a more solid sense of my "self" and the
reality surrounding it being, well *real*.

In its aftermath, I came to see that solidity as a consequence of
faith. So you might say the LSD/psilocybin introduced molecules of
doubt in that faith. In a "you can't un-see it" sense, that solidity
never returned. To this day I question whether "reality" is something
actually objective and happening apart from (i.e. outside) me,
or merely my own thoughts happening so quickly so as to give the
appearance of reality - kind of the way spinning a hot firebrand
in the dark causes a seemingly very real glowing circle to appear
suspended in midair. I've actually come to model what is usually
called faith as the repetition of thoughts fast enough that a solid
reality emerges from it.

I couldn't tell you which explanation - i.e. reality is real in
and of itself, or it's just the really quick repetition of the same
thought(s) - is better. But I miss *not* wondering. I miss reality
seeming unquestionably clear and obvious.

In that context, I feel I understand Lennon's seeming demise /
devolution. It's quite possibly better to never question the
underpinnings of seeming reality (See? I can't even say it without
including the word-of-doubt 'seeming'...).

The analogy I've come to prefer is that it's no longer magic when
you know - or even merely think you know - how it works... and I've
come to miss my magical innocence....

--
oldernow
xyz001 at nym.hush.com

1
server_pubkey.txt

rocksolid light 0.9.81
clearnet tor