I've always associated Mr. Tambourine Man with Bruce Langhorne. Heylin's "Double Life" has this, though, about Dylan's trip in 1964 with Victor Maymudes, Paul Clayton, and "scribe" Pete Karman that stopped in New Orlans for Mardis Gras:
"Sure enough, he rolled into his room in the wee small hours with the germ of an idea for a song about a musical muse, a Pied Piper figure wielding a tambourine and offering the singer a trip on his 'magic swirlin' ship' (Dylan's version of Rimbaud's le bateau ivre - perhaps Arthur's most fabled illumination), a genesis he finally acknowledged in the 1985 Biograph notes."

I went to my copy of Biograph, but it has no notes. Each of the three CDs has a two-page insert in the CD case that has the album cover on the first page, and the CD track listing on the last page, but the middle two pages are blank. Does any one of you have Biograph? If so, could you check and see if your copy has notes, not just blank pages? (And if your copy has notes, do they say anything about that line and Rimbaud?)

I'm curious about Heylin's claim. I'd thought about the "magic swirling ship" being a reference to Drunken Boat, but I hadn't considered that the snippet is "your magic swirling ship," meaning that the song is addressing Rimbaud, and that one could argue that Rimbaud is the tambourine man (even if Langhorne did play on the song and was famous for playing a tambourine).

On Wednesday, October 12, 2022 at 3:09:16 PM UTC-7, Willie wrote:
> I've always associated Mr. Tambourine Man with Bruce Langhorne. Heylin's "Double Life" has this, though, about Dylan's trip in 1964 with Victor Maymudes, Paul Clayton, and "scribe" Pete Karman that stopped in New Orlans for Mardis Gras:
> "Sure enough, he rolled into his room in the wee small hours with the germ of an idea for a song about a musical muse, a Pied Piper figure wielding a tambourine and offering the singer a trip on his 'magic swirlin' ship' (Dylan's version of Rimbaud's le bateau ivre - perhaps Arthur's most fabled illumination), a genesis he finally acknowledged in the 1985 Biograph notes."
>
> I went to my copy of Biograph, but it has no notes. Each of the three CDs has a two-page insert in the CD case that has the album cover on the first page, and the CD track listing on the last page, but the middle two pages are blank. Does any one of you have Biograph? If so, could you check and see if your copy has notes, not just blank pages? (And if your copy has notes, do they say anything about that line and Rimbaud?)
>
> I'm curious about Heylin's claim. I'd thought about the "magic swirling ship" being a reference to Drunken Boat, but I hadn't considered that the snippet is "your magic swirling ship," meaning that the song is addressing Rimbaud, and that one could argue that Rimbaud is the tambourine man (even if Langhorne did play on the song and was famous for playing a tambourine).

sorry, i copied my biograph, and pilfered the unused booklet, so no notes, but what is drunken boat? where is that from?

cuz our ole archnemesis aj was transcribing the lyrics to dignity and he wrote drunken boat, and i wrote him to say it was jerkin' boat (that's what i thought, at least).

On Wednesday, October 12, 2022 at 6:19:52 PM UTC-4, Rachel wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 12, 2022 at 3:09:16 PM UTC-7, Willie wrote:
> > I've always associated Mr. Tambourine Man with Bruce Langhorne. Heylin's "Double Life" has this, though, about Dylan's trip in 1964 with Victor Maymudes, Paul Clayton, and "scribe" Pete Karman that stopped in New Orlans for Mardis Gras:
> > "Sure enough, he rolled into his room in the wee small hours with the germ of an idea for a song about a musical muse, a Pied Piper figure wielding a tambourine and offering the singer a trip on his 'magic swirlin' ship' (Dylan's version of Rimbaud's le bateau ivre - perhaps Arthur's most fabled illumination), a genesis he finally acknowledged in the 1985 Biograph notes."
> >
> > I went to my copy of Biograph, but it has no notes. Each of the three CDs has a two-page insert in the CD case that has the album cover on the first page, and the CD track listing on the last page, but the middle two pages are blank. Does any one of you have Biograph? If so, could you check and see if your copy has notes, not just blank pages? (And if your copy has notes, do they say anything about that line and Rimbaud?)
> >
> > I'm curious about Heylin's claim. I'd thought about the "magic swirling ship" being a reference to Drunken Boat, but I hadn't considered that the snippet is "your magic swirling ship," meaning that the song is addressing Rimbaud, and that one could argue that Rimbaud is the tambourine man (even if Langhorne did play on the song and was famous for playing a tambourine).
> sorry, i copied my biograph, and pilfered the unused booklet, so no notes, but what is drunken boat? where is that from?
>
> cuz our ole archnemesis aj was transcribing the lyrics to dignity and he wrote drunken boat, and i wrote him to say it was jerkin' boat (that's what i thought, at least).
Hi Rachel!
Drunken Boat has some lines that remind me of yours:
https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/55036/the-drunken-boat

On Wednesday, October 12, 2022 at 3:33:45 PM UTC-7, Willie wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 12, 2022 at 6:19:52 PM UTC-4, Rachel wrote:
> > On Wednesday, October 12, 2022 at 3:09:16 PM UTC-7, Willie wrote:
> > > I've always associated Mr. Tambourine Man with Bruce Langhorne. Heylin's "Double Life" has this, though, about Dylan's trip in 1964 with Victor Maymudes, Paul Clayton, and "scribe" Pete Karman that stopped in New Orlans for Mardis Gras:
> > > "Sure enough, he rolled into his room in the wee small hours with the germ of an idea for a song about a musical muse, a Pied Piper figure wielding a tambourine and offering the singer a trip on his 'magic swirlin' ship' (Dylan's version of Rimbaud's le bateau ivre - perhaps Arthur's most fabled illumination), a genesis he finally acknowledged in the 1985 Biograph notes."
> > >
> > > I went to my copy of Biograph, but it has no notes. Each of the three CDs has a two-page insert in the CD case that has the album cover on the first page, and the CD track listing on the last page, but the middle two pages are blank. Does any one of you have Biograph? If so, could you check and see if your copy has notes, not just blank pages? (And if your copy has notes, do they say anything about that line and Rimbaud?)
> > >
> > > I'm curious about Heylin's claim. I'd thought about the "magic swirling ship" being a reference to Drunken Boat, but I hadn't considered that the snippet is "your magic swirling ship," meaning that the song is addressing Rimbaud, and that one could argue that Rimbaud is the tambourine man (even if Langhorne did play on the song and was famous for playing a tambourine).
> > sorry, i copied my biograph, and pilfered the unused booklet, so no notes, but what is drunken boat? where is that from?
> >
> > cuz our ole archnemesis aj was transcribing the lyrics to dignity and he wrote drunken boat, and i wrote him to say it was jerkin' boat (that's what i thought, at least).
> Hi Rachel!
> Drunken Boat has some lines that remind me of yours:
> https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/55036/the-drunken-boat

i can't read the whole thing....but to me, it seems reminiscent of will, but more fleshed out.

On Wednesday, October 12, 2022 at 7:10:24 PM UTC-4, Rachel wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 12, 2022 at 3:33:45 PM UTC-7, Willie wrote:
> > On Wednesday, October 12, 2022 at 6:19:52 PM UTC-4, Rachel wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, October 12, 2022 at 3:09:16 PM UTC-7, Willie wrote:
> > > > I've always associated Mr. Tambourine Man with Bruce Langhorne. Heylin's "Double Life" has this, though, about Dylan's trip in 1964 with Victor Maymudes, Paul Clayton, and "scribe" Pete Karman that stopped in New Orlans for Mardis Gras:
> > > > "Sure enough, he rolled into his room in the wee small hours with the germ of an idea for a song about a musical muse, a Pied Piper figure wielding a tambourine and offering the singer a trip on his 'magic swirlin' ship' (Dylan's version of Rimbaud's le bateau ivre - perhaps Arthur's most fabled illumination), a genesis he finally acknowledged in the 1985 Biograph notes."
> > > >
> > > > I went to my copy of Biograph, but it has no notes. Each of the three CDs has a two-page insert in the CD case that has the album cover on the first page, and the CD track listing on the last page, but the middle two pages are blank. Does any one of you have Biograph? If so, could you check and see if your copy has notes, not just blank pages? (And if your copy has notes, do they say anything about that line and Rimbaud?)
> > > >
> > > > I'm curious about Heylin's claim. I'd thought about the "magic swirling ship" being a reference to Drunken Boat, but I hadn't considered that the snippet is "your magic swirling ship," meaning that the song is addressing Rimbaud, and that one could argue that Rimbaud is the tambourine man (even if Langhorne did play on the song and was famous for playing a tambourine).
> > > sorry, i copied my biograph, and pilfered the unused booklet, so no notes, but what is drunken boat? where is that from?
> > >
> > > cuz our ole archnemesis aj was transcribing the lyrics to dignity and he wrote drunken boat, and i wrote him to say it was jerkin' boat (that's what i thought, at least).
> > Hi Rachel!
> > Drunken Boat has some lines that remind me of yours:
> > https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/55036/the-drunken-boat
> i can't read the whole thing....but to me, it seems reminiscent of will, but more fleshed out.
Yeah, I can't read the whole thing either. At least right now. C'est magnifique en français. I do think Rimbaud would have loved your poems.

On Wednesday, October 12, 2022 at 4:58:54 PM UTC-7, Willie wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 12, 2022 at 7:10:24 PM UTC-4, Rachel wrote:
> > On Wednesday, October 12, 2022 at 3:33:45 PM UTC-7, Willie wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, October 12, 2022 at 6:19:52 PM UTC-4, Rachel wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, October 12, 2022 at 3:09:16 PM UTC-7, Willie wrote:
> > > > > I've always associated Mr. Tambourine Man with Bruce Langhorne. Heylin's "Double Life" has this, though, about Dylan's trip in 1964 with Victor Maymudes, Paul Clayton, and "scribe" Pete Karman that stopped in New Orlans for Mardis Gras:
> > > > > "Sure enough, he rolled into his room in the wee small hours with the germ of an idea for a song about a musical muse, a Pied Piper figure wielding a tambourine and offering the singer a trip on his 'magic swirlin' ship' (Dylan's version of Rimbaud's le bateau ivre - perhaps Arthur's most fabled illumination), a genesis he finally acknowledged in the 1985 Biograph notes."
> > > > >
> > > > > I went to my copy of Biograph, but it has no notes. Each of the three CDs has a two-page insert in the CD case that has the album cover on the first page, and the CD track listing on the last page, but the middle two pages are blank. Does any one of you have Biograph? If so, could you check and see if your copy has notes, not just blank pages? (And if your copy has notes, do they say anything about that line and Rimbaud?)
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm curious about Heylin's claim. I'd thought about the "magic swirling ship" being a reference to Drunken Boat, but I hadn't considered that the snippet is "your magic swirling ship," meaning that the song is addressing Rimbaud, and that one could argue that Rimbaud is the tambourine man (even if Langhorne did play on the song and was famous for playing a tambourine).
> > > > sorry, i copied my biograph, and pilfered the unused booklet, so no notes, but what is drunken boat? where is that from?
> > > >
> > > > cuz our ole archnemesis aj was transcribing the lyrics to dignity and he wrote drunken boat, and i wrote him to say it was jerkin' boat (that's what i thought, at least).
> > > Hi Rachel!
> > > Drunken Boat has some lines that remind me of yours:
> > > https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/55036/the-drunken-boat
> > i can't read the whole thing....but to me, it seems reminiscent of will, but more fleshed out.
> Yeah, I can't read the whole thing either. At least right now. C'est magnifique en français. I do think Rimbaud would have loved your poems.

Would this be before or after he had achieved a complete derangement of the senses?

On Wednesday, October 12, 2022 at 9:32:30 PM UTC-4, Rachel wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 12, 2022 at 4:58:54 PM UTC-7, Willie wrote:
> > On Wednesday, October 12, 2022 at 7:10:24 PM UTC-4, Rachel wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, October 12, 2022 at 3:33:45 PM UTC-7, Willie wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, October 12, 2022 at 6:19:52 PM UTC-4, Rachel wrote:
> > > > > On Wednesday, October 12, 2022 at 3:09:16 PM UTC-7, Willie wrote:
> > > > > > I've always associated Mr. Tambourine Man with Bruce Langhorne. Heylin's "Double Life" has this, though, about Dylan's trip in 1964 with Victor Maymudes, Paul Clayton, and "scribe" Pete Karman that stopped in New Orlans for Mardis Gras:
> > > > > > "Sure enough, he rolled into his room in the wee small hours with the germ of an idea for a song about a musical muse, a Pied Piper figure wielding a tambourine and offering the singer a trip on his 'magic swirlin' ship' (Dylan's version of Rimbaud's le bateau ivre - perhaps Arthur's most fabled illumination), a genesis he finally acknowledged in the 1985 Biograph notes."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I went to my copy of Biograph, but it has no notes. Each of the three CDs has a two-page insert in the CD case that has the album cover on the first page, and the CD track listing on the last page, but the middle two pages are blank. Does any one of you have Biograph? If so, could you check and see if your copy has notes, not just blank pages? (And if your copy has notes, do they say anything about that line and Rimbaud?)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm curious about Heylin's claim. I'd thought about the "magic swirling ship" being a reference to Drunken Boat, but I hadn't considered that the snippet is "your magic swirling ship," meaning that the song is addressing Rimbaud, and that one could argue that Rimbaud is the tambourine man (even if Langhorne did play on the song and was famous for playing a tambourine).
> > > > > sorry, i copied my biograph, and pilfered the unused booklet, so no notes, but what is drunken boat? where is that from?
> > > > >
> > > > > cuz our ole archnemesis aj was transcribing the lyrics to dignity and he wrote drunken boat, and i wrote him to say it was jerkin' boat (that's what i thought, at least).
> > > > Hi Rachel!
> > > > Drunken Boat has some lines that remind me of yours:
> > > > https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/55036/the-drunken-boat
> > > i can't read the whole thing....but to me, it seems reminiscent of will, but more fleshed out.
> > Yeah, I can't read the whole thing either. At least right now. C'est magnifique en français. I do think Rimbaud would have loved your poems.
> Would this be before or after he had achieved a complete derangement of the senses?

On Wednesday, October 12, 2022 at 9:32:30 PM UTC-4, Rachel wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 12, 2022 at 4:58:54 PM UTC-7, Willie wrote:
> > On Wednesday, October 12, 2022 at 7:10:24 PM UTC-4, Rachel wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, October 12, 2022 at 3:33:45 PM UTC-7, Willie wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, October 12, 2022 at 6:19:52 PM UTC-4, Rachel wrote:
> > > > > On Wednesday, October 12, 2022 at 3:09:16 PM UTC-7, Willie wrote:
> > > > > > I've always associated Mr. Tambourine Man with Bruce Langhorne. Heylin's "Double Life" has this, though, about Dylan's trip in 1964 with Victor Maymudes, Paul Clayton, and "scribe" Pete Karman that stopped in New Orlans for Mardis Gras:
> > > > > > "Sure enough, he rolled into his room in the wee small hours with the germ of an idea for a song about a musical muse, a Pied Piper figure wielding a tambourine and offering the singer a trip on his 'magic swirlin' ship' (Dylan's version of Rimbaud's le bateau ivre - perhaps Arthur's most fabled illumination), a genesis he finally acknowledged in the 1985 Biograph notes."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I went to my copy of Biograph, but it has no notes. Each of the three CDs has a two-page insert in the CD case that has the album cover on the first page, and the CD track listing on the last page, but the middle two pages are blank. Does any one of you have Biograph? If so, could you check and see if your copy has notes, not just blank pages? (And if your copy has notes, do they say anything about that line and Rimbaud?)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm curious about Heylin's claim. I'd thought about the "magic swirling ship" being a reference to Drunken Boat, but I hadn't considered that the snippet is "your magic swirling ship," meaning that the song is addressing Rimbaud, and that one could argue that Rimbaud is the tambourine man (even if Langhorne did play on the song and was famous for playing a tambourine).
> > > > > sorry, i copied my biograph, and pilfered the unused booklet, so no notes, but what is drunken boat? where is that from?
> > > > >
> > > > > cuz our ole archnemesis aj was transcribing the lyrics to dignity and he wrote drunken boat, and i wrote him to say it was jerkin' boat (that's what i thought, at least).
> > > > Hi Rachel!
> > > > Drunken Boat has some lines that remind me of yours:
> > > > https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/55036/the-drunken-boat
> > > i can't read the whole thing....but to me, it seems reminiscent of will, but more fleshed out.
> > Yeah, I can't read the whole thing either. At least right now. C'est magnifique en français. I do think Rimbaud would have loved your poems.
> Would this be before or after he had achieved a complete derangement of the senses?

TeeHee. Before and after. Before, he would read your poems and think, Mon dieu, I must let my mind go where her's goes. Then, after, he would think , Mon dieu, I must return to Rachel's controlled form, I have gone too far.

On Wednesday, October 12, 2022 at 6:09:16 PM UTC-4, Willie wrote:
>
> I've always associated Mr. Tambourine Man with Bruce Langhorne. Heylin's "Double Life" has this, though, about Dylan's trip in 1964 with Victor Maymudes, Paul Clayton, and "scribe" Pete Karman that stopped in New Orlans for Mardis Gras:
> "Sure enough, he rolled into his room in the wee small hours with the germ of an idea for a song about a musical muse, a Pied Piper figure wielding a tambourine and offering the singer a trip on his 'magic swirlin' ship' (Dylan's version of Rimbaud's le bateau ivre - perhaps Arthur's most fabled illumination), a genesis he finally acknowledged in the 1985 Biograph notes."

This was sort of how I remember Anthony Scaduto described it, also.
> I went to my copy of Biograph, but it has no notes. Each of the three CDs has a two-page insert in the CD case that has the album cover on the first page, and the CD track listing on the last page, but the middle two pages are blank. Does any one of you have Biograph? If so, could you check and see if your copy has notes, not just blank pages? (And if your copy has notes, do they say anything about that line and Rimbaud?)
>
> I'm curious about Heylin's claim. I'd thought about the "magic swirling ship" being a reference to Drunken Boat, but I hadn't considered that the snippet is "your magic swirling ship," meaning that the song is addressing Rimbaud, and that one could argue that Rimbaud is the tambourine man (even if Langhorne did play on the song and was famous for playing a tambourine).

I remember that my copy of Biography came in a box with a big album cover size book.

Not sure if I still have the book, but I'll look around for it.

On Wednesday, 12 October 2022 at 18:09:16 UTC-4, Willie wrote:
> I've always associated Mr. Tambourine Man with Bruce Langhorne. Heylin's "Double Life" has this, though, about Dylan's trip in 1964 with Victor Maymudes, Paul Clayton, and "scribe" Pete Karman that stopped in New Orlans for Mardis Gras:
> "Sure enough, he rolled into his room in the wee small hours with the germ of an idea for a song about a musical muse, a Pied Piper figure wielding a tambourine and offering the singer a trip on his 'magic swirlin' ship' (Dylan's version of Rimbaud's le bateau ivre - perhaps Arthur's most fabled illumination), a genesis he finally acknowledged in the 1985 Biograph notes."
>
> I went to my copy of Biograph, but it has no notes. Each of the three CDs has a two-page insert in the CD case that has the album cover on the first page, and the CD track listing on the last page, but the middle two pages are blank. Does any one of you have Biograph? If so, could you check and see if your copy has notes, not just blank pages? (And if your copy has notes, do they say anything about that line and Rimbaud?)
>
> I'm curious about Heylin's claim. I'd thought about the "magic swirling ship" being a reference to Drunken Boat, but I hadn't considered that the snippet is "your magic swirling ship," meaning that the song is addressing Rimbaud, and that one could argue that Rimbaud is the tambourine man (even if Langhorne did play on the song and was famous for playing a tambourine).

I think one has to take Heylin's parenthetical reference as just his personal thought about where Dylan's "magic swirlin' ship" might have come from--not really a claim that Dylan himself necessarily made such a connection. I think all Heylin meant to say is that in his Biograph interview with Cameron Crowe, Dylan confirmed that the genesis of the song involved "a Pied Piper figure wielding a tambourine" (i.e., Bruce Langhorne)."

Crowe's interview with Dylan was actually turned into a 36-page booklet, with dimensions that allowed it to nestle comfortably in a vinyl box set. That's the version I bought in 1985. The CD version of Biograph that I also have has the identical box, presumably so that the original booklet could still be included with the CDs. In any event, that's not where Dylan's comment about "Mr. Tambourine Man" appears. Rather, in the vinyl version, each of the five vinyl records constituting the set has an individual sleeve that prints Dylan's comments to Crowe, song-by-song, for each album side. Here's, in its entirety is Dylan's comment on "Mr. Tambourine Man":

“‘Mr. Tambourine Man,’ I think, was inspired by Bruce Langhorne. Bruce was playing guitar with me on a bunch of the early records. On one session, (producer) Tom Wilson had asked him to play tambourine.. And he had this gigantic tambourine. It was like, really big. It was as big as a wagon wheel. He was playing, and this vision of him playing this tambourine just stuck in my mind. He was one of those characters…he was like that. I don’t know if I’ve ever told him that. I haven’t seen him in a long time. I wrote some of the song in New Orleans too. I don’t, different things inspired me…that Fellini movie? What was it? La Strada. It was all sort of like the same thing, you know. Drugs never played a part in that song...'disappearing in the smoke rings in my mind', that's not drugs, drugs were never that biga thing with me. I could take 'm or leave 'm, never hung me up.”

So all that Dylan confirmed was that he thinks that Langhore inspired the song. Nothing on Rimbaud--except in Heylin's parenthetical interpolation. I think this might be the kind of thing that for many years used to generate a lot of Heylin-hatred within Dylan fandom. And probably still does.

https://newrepublic.com/article/162533/whats-wrong-bob-dylans-biographers-clinton-heylin-review

On Thursday, October 13, 2022 at 12:28:13 PM UTC-4, K. Hematite wrote:
> On Wednesday, 12 October 2022 at 18:09:16 UTC-4, Willie wrote:
> > I've always associated Mr. Tambourine Man with Bruce Langhorne. Heylin's "Double Life" has this, though, about Dylan's trip in 1964 with Victor Maymudes, Paul Clayton, and "scribe" Pete Karman that stopped in New Orlans for Mardis Gras:
> > "Sure enough, he rolled into his room in the wee small hours with the germ of an idea for a song about a musical muse, a Pied Piper figure wielding a tambourine and offering the singer a trip on his 'magic swirlin' ship' (Dylan's version of Rimbaud's le bateau ivre - perhaps Arthur's most fabled illumination), a genesis he finally acknowledged in the 1985 Biograph notes."
> >
> > I went to my copy of Biograph, but it has no notes. Each of the three CDs has a two-page insert in the CD case that has the album cover on the first page, and the CD track listing on the last page, but the middle two pages are blank. Does any one of you have Biograph? If so, could you check and see if your copy has notes, not just blank pages? (And if your copy has notes, do they say anything about that line and Rimbaud?)
> >
> > I'm curious about Heylin's claim. I'd thought about the "magic swirling ship" being a reference to Drunken Boat, but I hadn't considered that the snippet is "your magic swirling ship," meaning that the song is addressing Rimbaud, and that one could argue that Rimbaud is the tambourine man (even if Langhorne did play on the song and was famous for playing a tambourine).
> I think one has to take Heylin's parenthetical reference as just his personal thought about where Dylan's "magic swirlin' ship" might have come from--not really a claim that Dylan himself necessarily made such a connection. I think all Heylin meant to say is that in his Biograph interview with Cameron Crowe, Dylan confirmed that the genesis of the song involved "a Pied Piper figure wielding a tambourine" (i.e., Bruce Langhorne)."
>
> Crowe's interview with Dylan was actually turned into a 36-page booklet, with dimensions that allowed it to nestle comfortably in a vinyl box set. That's the version I bought in 1985. The CD version of Biograph that I also have has the identical box, presumably so that the original booklet could still be included with the CDs. In any event, that's not where Dylan's comment about "Mr. Tambourine Man" appears. Rather, in the vinyl version, each of the five vinyl records constituting the set has an individual sleeve that prints Dylan's comments to Crowe, song-by-song, for each album side. Here's, in its entirety is Dylan's comment on "Mr. Tambourine Man":
>
> “‘Mr. Tambourine Man,’ I think, was inspired by Bruce Langhorne. Bruce was playing guitar with me on a bunch of the early records. On one session, (producer) Tom Wilson had asked him to play tambourine. And he had this gigantic tambourine. It was like, really big. It was as big as a wagon wheel. He was playing, and this vision of him playing this tambourine just stuck in my mind. He was one of those characters…he was like that. I don’t know if I’ve ever told him that. I haven’t seen him in a long time. I wrote some of the song in New Orleans too. I don’t, different things inspired me…that Fellini movie? What was it? La Strada. It was all sort of like the same thing, you know. Drugs never played a part in that song...'disappearing in the smoke rings in my mind', that's not drugs, drugs were never that biga thing with me. I could take 'm or leave 'm, never hung me up.”
>
> So all that Dylan confirmed was that he thinks that Langhore inspired the song. Nothing on Rimbaud--except in Heylin's parenthetical interpolation. I think this might be the kind of thing that for many years used to generate a lot of Heylin-hatred within Dylan fandom. And probably still does.
>
> https://newrepublic.com/article/162533/whats-wrong-bob-dylans-biographers-clinton-heylin-review

Thank you, K (and Will). I must have the Biograph box itself somewhere (I extracted the CD cases and put them in with the other Dylan CDs on a shelf). But I don't even need to find it, because you quoted the passage I would have sought.

What an excellent review of "Double Life." Is it the same one you sent when I expressed being put off by the book after I got it in January? Ah, I checked and see it is (you also sent a more complimentary review). I think Semley is spot on when he writes "Certainly, Heylin sets out to elbow past all other comers, making bullying attempts to clear the crowded field of Dylan researchers, biographers, and armchair obsessives." There are many places where he patronizingly points out someone's incorrect dating of an event, or mischaracterization of an encounter.

But I'm really enjoying the book. The Beatles have just appeared (Bob missed their Ed Sullivan appearance, seen by 78 million, because the four travellers were in a fleabag motel with no TV). I liked this passage:

"As with most musical trends, McCartney had the jump on Lennon, who gamely admitted, 'Paul had heard of him [WW: Dylan] before, but until we played Freewheelin' his name did not really mean anything to the rest of us.' Macca could well have brought the album with him to Paris, having 'borrowed' it from his brother, Mike McGear [WW: I'd never heard of Paul's brother!], who who had borrowed it from a girl he had been (vainly) trying to impress, someone hip enough to own an import copy. McGear's first reaction on hearing Freewheelin' at her place - or so he claims - was 'This guy can't sing.' But he was real keen on this Liverpool gal, so he persevered; to the extent that he eventually asked to borrow the album to listen to at home, where he was caught in flagrante by his brother, who opined, 'What is this shit? This guy can't sing.' Mike replied, 'It kinda grows on you.' Fast-forward to January 1964. Mike has come to raise the siege of George Cinque [WW: A hotel in Paris referred to earlier], only to be stunned to hear, upon entering the boys' palatial suite, Dylan's dulcet tones. He challenges Paul. 'Hey, I thought you said he couldn't sing.' The remark engendered a slightly sheepish, 'It kinda grows on you.' "

I wonder which Freewheelin' song had the dulcet tones. Girl from the North Country? bob Dylan's Dream? Corinna, Corinna? Don't Think Twice?

On Thursday, 13 October 2022 at 15:01:49 UTC-4, Willie wrote:
> On Thursday, October 13, 2022 at 12:28:13 PM UTC-4, K. Hematite wrote:
> > On Wednesday, 12 October 2022 at 18:09:16 UTC-4, Willie wrote:
> > > I've always associated Mr. Tambourine Man with Bruce Langhorne. Heylin's "Double Life" has this, though, about Dylan's trip in 1964 with Victor Maymudes, Paul Clayton, and "scribe" Pete Karman that stopped in New Orlans for Mardis Gras:
> > > "Sure enough, he rolled into his room in the wee small hours with the germ of an idea for a song about a musical muse, a Pied Piper figure wielding a tambourine and offering the singer a trip on his 'magic swirlin' ship' (Dylan's version of Rimbaud's le bateau ivre - perhaps Arthur's most fabled illumination), a genesis he finally acknowledged in the 1985 Biograph notes."
> > >
> > > I went to my copy of Biograph, but it has no notes. Each of the three CDs has a two-page insert in the CD case that has the album cover on the first page, and the CD track listing on the last page, but the middle two pages are blank. Does any one of you have Biograph? If so, could you check and see if your copy has notes, not just blank pages? (And if your copy has notes, do they say anything about that line and Rimbaud?)
> > >
> > > I'm curious about Heylin's claim. I'd thought about the "magic swirling ship" being a reference to Drunken Boat, but I hadn't considered that the snippet is "your magic swirling ship," meaning that the song is addressing Rimbaud, and that one could argue that Rimbaud is the tambourine man (even if Langhorne did play on the song and was famous for playing a tambourine).
> > I think one has to take Heylin's parenthetical reference as just his personal thought about where Dylan's "magic swirlin' ship" might have come from--not really a claim that Dylan himself necessarily made such a connection. I think all Heylin meant to say is that in his Biograph interview with Cameron Crowe, Dylan confirmed that the genesis of the song involved "a Pied Piper figure wielding a tambourine" (i.e., Bruce Langhorne)."
> >
> > Crowe's interview with Dylan was actually turned into a 36-page booklet, with dimensions that allowed it to nestle comfortably in a vinyl box set. That's the version I bought in 1985. The CD version of Biograph that I also have has the identical box, presumably so that the original booklet could still be included with the CDs. In any event, that's not where Dylan's comment about "Mr. Tambourine Man" appears. Rather, in the vinyl version, each of the five vinyl records constituting the set has an individual sleeve that prints Dylan's comments to Crowe, song-by-song, for each album side. Here's, in its entirety is Dylan's comment on "Mr. Tambourine Man":
> >
> > “‘Mr. Tambourine Man,’ I think, was inspired by Bruce Langhorne. Bruce was playing guitar with me on a bunch of the early records. On one session, (producer) Tom Wilson had asked him to play tambourine. And he had this gigantic tambourine. It was like, really big. It was as big as a wagon wheel. He was playing, and this vision of him playing this tambourine just stuck in my mind. He was one of those characters…he was like that. I don’t know if I’ve ever told him that. I haven’t seen him in a long time. I wrote some of the song in New Orleans too. I don’t, different things inspired me…that Fellini movie? What was it? La Strada. It was all sort of like the same thing, you know. Drugs never played a part in that song...'disappearing in the smoke rings in my mind', that's not drugs, drugs were never that biga thing with me. I could take 'm or leave 'm, never hung me up.”
> >
> > So all that Dylan confirmed was that he thinks that Langhore inspired the song. Nothing on Rimbaud--except in Heylin's parenthetical interpolation.. I think this might be the kind of thing that for many years used to generate a lot of Heylin-hatred within Dylan fandom. And probably still does.
> >
> > https://newrepublic.com/article/162533/whats-wrong-bob-dylans-biographers-clinton-heylin-review
> Thank you, K (and Will). I must have the Biograph box itself somewhere (I extracted the CD cases and put them in with the other Dylan CDs on a shelf). But I don't even need to find it, because you quoted the passage I would have sought.
>
> What an excellent review of "Double Life." Is it the same one you sent when I expressed being put off by the book after I got it in January? Ah, I checked and see it is (you also sent a more complimentary review). I think Semley is spot on when he writes "Certainly, Heylin sets out to elbow past all other comers, making bullying attempts to clear the crowded field of Dylan researchers, biographers, and armchair obsessives." There are many places where he patronizingly points out someone's incorrect dating of an event, or mischaracterization of an encounter.
>
> But I'm really enjoying the book. The Beatles have just appeared (Bob missed their Ed Sullivan appearance, seen by 78 million, because the four travellers were in a fleabag motel with no TV). I liked this passage:
>
> "As with most musical trends, McCartney had the jump on Lennon, who gamely admitted, 'Paul had heard of him [WW: Dylan] before, but until we played Freewheelin' his name did not really mean anything to the rest of us.' Macca could well have brought the album with him to Paris, having 'borrowed' it from his brother, Mike McGear [WW: I'd never heard of Paul's brother!], who who had borrowed it from a girl he had been (vainly) trying to impress, someone hip enough to own an import copy. McGear's first reaction on hearing Freewheelin' at her place - or so he claims - was 'This guy can't sing.' But he was real keen on this Liverpool gal, so he persevered; to the extent that he eventually asked to borrow the album to listen to at home, where he was caught in flagrante by his brother, who opined, 'What is this shit? This guy can't sing.' Mike replied, 'It kinda grows on you.' Fast-forward to January 1964. Mike has come to raise the siege of George Cinque [WW: A hotel in Paris referred to earlier], only to be stunned to hear, upon entering the boys' palatial suite, Dylan's dulcet tones. He challenges Paul. 'Hey, I thought you said he couldn't sing.' The remark engendered a slightly sheepish, 'It kinda grows on you.' "
>
> I wonder which Freewheelin' song had the dulcet tones. Girl from the North Country? bob Dylan's Dream? Corinna, Corinna? Don't Think Twice?

Mike McGear belonged to a group called The Scaffold, which had a top ten hit, "Thank U Very Much", on the UK charts in late 1967. It only reached #69 on the US Billboard chart in early 1968. That was the first I learned that Paul McCartney had a brother.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjnkmNyArNg

I'm on the rollin' river in a jerkin' boat

On Monday, October 17, 2022 at 2:18:03 PM UTC-7, President_dudley wrote:
> I'm on the rollin' river in a jerkin' boat

i *thought* it was on *a* rollin' river...?

On Monday, October 17, 2022 at 5:39:46 PM UTC-4, Rachel wrote:
> On Monday, October 17, 2022 at 2:18:03 PM UTC-7, President_dudley wrote:
> > I'm on the rollin' river in a jerkin' boat
> i *thought* it was on *a* rollin' river...?

tbh i just copypasted from a generic lyric site

here's what bob's site has:

I’m on the rollin’ river in a jerkin’ boat

not to say to say that one or more of the recorded versions doesn't say "a"

i just thought the phrase was apt regarding rimbaud

take care, but take it

On Monday, October 17, 2022 at 3:37:49 PM UTC-7, President_dudley wrote:
> On Monday, October 17, 2022 at 5:39:46 PM UTC-4, Rachel wrote:
> > On Monday, October 17, 2022 at 2:18:03 PM UTC-7, President_dudley wrote:
> > > I'm on the rollin' river in a jerkin' boat
> > i *thought* it was on *a* rollin' river...?
> tbh i just copypasted from a generic lyric site
>
> here's what bob's site has:
> I’m on the rollin’ river in a jerkin’ boat
> not to say to say that one or more of the recorded versions doesn't say "a"
>
>
> i just thought the phrase was apt regarding rimbaud
>
> take care, but take it

always nice to see you, doodles! so glad you are still around, and with us (tinu)

takin it easy, and takin it,
rachel

On Thursday, October 13, 2022 at 12:28:13 PM UTC-4, K. Hematite wrote:
> On Wednesday, 12 October 2022 at 18:09:16 UTC-4, Willie wrote:
>
> > I've always associated Mr. Tambourine Man with Bruce Langhorne. Heylin's "Double Life" has this, though, about Dylan's trip in 1964 with Victor Maymudes, Paul Clayton, and "scribe" Pete Karman that stopped in New Orlans for Mardis Gras:
> > "Sure enough, he rolled into his room in the wee small hours with the germ of an idea for a song about a musical muse, a Pied Piper figure wielding a tambourine and offering the singer a trip on his 'magic swirlin' ship' (Dylan's version of Rimbaud's le bateau ivre - perhaps Arthur's most fabled illumination), a genesis he finally acknowledged in the 1985 Biograph notes."
> >
> > I went to my copy of Biograph, but it has no notes. Each of the three CDs has a two-page insert in the CD case that has the album cover on the first page, and the CD track listing on the last page, but the middle two pages are blank. Does any one of you have Biograph? If so, could you check and see if your copy has notes, not just blank pages? (And if your copy has notes, do they say anything about that line and Rimbaud?)
> >
> > I'm curious about Heylin's claim. I'd thought about the "magic swirling ship" being a reference to Drunken Boat, but I hadn't considered that the snippet is "your magic swirling ship," meaning that the song is addressing Rimbaud, and that one could argue that Rimbaud is the tambourine man (even if Langhorne did play on the song and was famous for playing a tambourine).
> I think one has to take Heylin's parenthetical reference as just his personal thought about where Dylan's "magic swirlin' ship" might have come from--not really a claim that Dylan himself necessarily made such a connection. I think all Heylin meant to say is that in his Biograph interview with Cameron Crowe, Dylan confirmed that the genesis of the song involved "a Pied Piper figure wielding a tambourine" (i.e., Bruce Langhorne)."
>
> Crowe's interview with Dylan was actually turned into a 36-page booklet, with dimensions that allowed it to nestle comfortably in a vinyl box set. That's the version I bought in 1985. The CD version of Biograph that I also have has the identical box, presumably so that the original booklet could still be included with the CDs. In any event, that's not where Dylan's comment about "Mr. Tambourine Man" appears. Rather, in the vinyl version, each of the five vinyl records constituting the set has an individual sleeve that prints Dylan's comments to Crowe, song-by-song, for each album side. Here's, in its entirety is Dylan's comment on "Mr. Tambourine Man":
>
> “‘Mr. Tambourine Man,’ I think, was inspired by Bruce Langhorne. Bruce was playing guitar with me on a bunch of the early records. On one session, (producer) Tom Wilson had asked him to play tambourine. And he had this gigantic tambourine. It was like, really big. It was as big as a wagon wheel. He was playing, and this vision of him playing this tambourine just stuck in my mind. He was one of those characters…he was like that. I don’t know if I’ve ever told him that. I haven’t seen him in a long time. I wrote some of the song in New Orleans too. I don’t, different things inspired me…that Fellini movie? What was it? La Strada. It was all sort of like the same thing, you know. Drugs never played a part in that song...'disappearing in the smoke rings in my mind', that's not drugs, drugs were never that biga thing with me. I could take 'm or leave 'm, never hung me up.”
>
> So all that Dylan confirmed was that he thinks that Langhore inspired the song. Nothing on Rimbaud--except in Heylin's parenthetical interpolation. I think this might be the kind of thing that for many years used to generate a lot of Heylin-hatred within Dylan fandom. And probably still does.
>
> https://newrepublic.com/article/162533/whats-wrong-bob-dylans-biographers-clinton-heylin-review

Good find, K.H.

On Tuesday, October 18, 2022 at 11:27:18 AM UTC-7, Rachel wrote:
> On Monday, October 17, 2022 at 3:37:49 PM UTC-7, President_dudley wrote:
> > On Monday, October 17, 2022 at 5:39:46 PM UTC-4, Rachel wrote:
> > > On Monday, October 17, 2022 at 2:18:03 PM UTC-7, President_dudley wrote:
> > > > I'm on the rollin' river in a jerkin' boat
> > > i *thought* it was on *a* rollin' river...?
> > tbh i just copypasted from a generic lyric site
> >
> > here's what bob's site has:
> > I’m on the rollin’ river in a jerkin’ boat
> > not to say to say that one or more of the recorded versions doesn't say "a"
> >
> >
> > i just thought the phrase was apt regarding rimbaud
> >
> > take care, but take it
> always nice to see you, doodles! so glad you are still around, and with us (tinu)
>
> takin it easy, and takin it,
> rachel

oops i said that incorrectly, but you know what i mea

takin care, but takin it.... :-/// :-(((

On Thursday, October 13, 2022 at 3:01:49 PM UTC-4, Willie wrote:
>
> But I'm really enjoying the book. The Beatles have just appeared (Bob missed their Ed Sullivan appearance, seen by 78 million, because the four travellers were in a fleabag motel with no TV). I liked this passage:
>
> "As with most musical trends, McCartney had the jump on Lennon, who gamely admitted, 'Paul had heard of him [WW: Dylan] before, but until we played Freewheelin' his name did not really mean anything to the rest of us.' Macca could well have brought the album with him to Paris, having 'borrowed' it from his brother, Mike McGear [WW: I'd never heard of Paul's brother!], who who had borrowed it from a girl he had been (vainly) trying to impress, someone hip enough to own an import copy. McGear's first reaction on hearing Freewheelin' at her place - or so he claims - was 'This guy can't sing.' But he was real keen on this Liverpool gal, so he persevered; to the extent that he eventually asked to borrow the album to listen to at home, where he was caught in flagrante by his brother, who opined, 'What is this shit? This guy can't sing.' Mike replied, 'It kinda grows on you.' Fast-forward to January 1964. Mike has come to raise the siege of George Cinque [WW: A hotel in Paris referred to earlier], only to be stunned to hear, upon entering the boys' palatial suite, Dylan's dulcet tones. He challenges Paul. 'Hey, I thought you said he couldn't sing.' The remark engendered a slightly sheepish, 'It kinda grows on you.' "
>
> I wonder which Freewheelin' song had the dulcet tones. Girl from the North Country? bob Dylan's Dream? Corinna, Corinna? Don't Think Twice?

Hmmm.... This is different from the story I've been familiar with and has been told repeatedly, that George Harrison picked up FreeWheelin' in Paris and introduced it to the rest of the band.

If Mark Lewisohn ever gets around to publishing Vol 2 of his Beatles' biography it will be interesting to see what he has to say about it.

On Thursday, October 13, 2022 at 3:01:49 PM UTC-4, Willie wrote:
>
> But I'm really enjoying the book. The Beatles have just appeared (Bob missed their Ed Sullivan appearance, seen by 78 million, because the four travellers were in a fleabag motel with no TV). I liked this passage:
>
> "As with most musical trends, McCartney had the jump on Lennon, who gamely admitted, 'Paul had heard of him [WW: Dylan] before, but until we played Freewheelin' his name did not really mean anything to the rest of us.' Macca could well have brought the album with him to Paris, having 'borrowed' it from his brother, Mike McGear [WW: I'd never heard of Paul's brother!], who who had borrowed it from a girl he had been (vainly) trying to impress, someone hip enough to own an import copy. McGear's first reaction on hearing Freewheelin' at her place - or so he claims - was 'This guy can't sing.' But he was real keen on this Liverpool gal, so he persevered; to the extent that he eventually asked to borrow the album to listen to at home, where he was caught in flagrante by his brother, who opined, 'What is this shit? This guy can't sing.' Mike replied, 'It kinda grows on you.' Fast-forward to January 1964. Mike has come to raise the siege of George Cinque [WW: A hotel in Paris referred to earlier], only to be stunned to hear, upon entering the boys' palatial suite, Dylan's dulcet tones. He challenges Paul. 'Hey, I thought you said he couldn't sing.' The remark engendered a slightly sheepish, 'It kinda grows on you.' "
>
> I wonder which Freewheelin' song had the dulcet tones. Girl from the North Country? bob Dylan's Dream? Corinna, Corinna? Don't Think Twice?

https://external-preview.redd.it/SIKJI34tH9a9F9QomoH9Q9tGlPaKsyRz17gHFe5LJp0.jpg?auto=webp&s=d46fb30caedf73771ce2156c22bbe1435b150fc2