> On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 10:36:12 PM UTC-7, evil.king.m...@gmail.com wrote:
> > They should have just painted Hot Rod's windshield white if they wanted to homage the TF:TM cartoon appearance with this redeco.

On Monday, December 26, 2022 at 6:34:02 AM UTC-8, Zobovor wrote:
> I don't think Hot Rod's windshield has ever been white. Light blue, like most season one Autobots, but never white.

I swear I see a white windshield everytime I pause his later car scenes in the movie. Maybe this is the Transformers version of that 'What color is this dress?'

> I imagine that keeping the windows blue will allow people to swap out the grey parts they dislike with chrome pieces, and create a proper-looking G1 prototype Hot Rod. A wrong-colored windshield would kind of preclude that.

The windshield swap would be as complicated as swapping out the wrong colored exhausts I think. Might as well do it while you're there.

I wish they'd do a prototype homage reissue line with grey astrotrain, blue bluestreak, a proper '86 Hot Rod, etc., etc. Maybe they're saving those ideas for the 50th anniversary.

On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 12:18:25 PM UTC-7, evil.king.m...@gmail.com wrote:

> The windshield swap would be as complicated as swapping out the wrong colored exhausts I think. Might as well do it while you're there.

Yeah, but the painted area around the windshield glass wouldn't match his shade of pink if you swapped parts. Also, a lot of the toys aren't held together with screws any longer. They use those annoying rivets that makes it much more difficult to dismantle the toys at the consumer level.

> I wish they'd do a prototype homage reissue line with grey astrotrain, blue bluestreak, a proper '86 Hot Rod, etc., etc. Maybe they're saving those ideas for the 50th anniversary.

2034 isn't that far off. I really hope Hasbro does something huge for the anniversary. Maybe they could bring back the HasLab Unicron in slightly different colors. You just know they're not going to sleep on that tooling forever. They'll find a way to use it again. I tend to think about the tooling for MP-44 (Masterpiece Optimus Prime 3.0) in much the same way. Takara usually milks a Masterpice design for all it's worth, but there are only so many ways you can sell an Optimus Prime toy a second time. Unless they just sell it as Optimus Prime again.

But, that's assuming that the popularity of Transformers, and G1 specifically, continues to soar. Sure, there are new fans discovering G1 all the time, but I don't think their numbers rival the fans who were there for G1 from the beginning. Eventually, all the fans who grew up on G1 are going to reach retirement age. By the time the 50th anniversary hits, a great many of the original fans will be in their 60's. Some of us will probably continue to collect for the rest of our lives, but I imagine at least some of them are going to get out of the game. Their priorities will shift (dentures and wheelchairs and hip replacements are expensive!) and they'll sell off their collections. G1 is going to rapidly fall out of favor as its popularity essentially tanks. I could be wrong, and I hope I am, but I perceive it as being similar to how Star Trek was wildly popular in the 1990's, but now it has nearly no retail presence.

Or, maybe G1 will be elevated to such heights that it doesn't matter whether you were there from the beginning. The popularity of other characters like Batman (1930's) or Spider-Man (1960's) certainly didn't tank when the folks who were there from the beginning moved on to bigger and better things. I guess we'll see.

Well, I mean, *we* won't see. But the folks who come after us, they'll see..

Zob (I make jokes with my kids about how they'll have to sell my toy collection some day... but I'm also not joking)

On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 2:51:49 PM UTC-8, Zobovor wrote:
> Yeah, but the painted area around the windshield glass wouldn't match his shade of pink if you swapped parts. Also, a lot of the toys aren't held together with screws any longer. They use those annoying rivets that makes it much more difficult to dismantle the toys at the consumer level.

Looking at the '86 Hasbro Toyfair catalog I see this deco is actually wildly divergent from the original prototype. It's not just a windshield and some chrome. The prototype was predominately magenta and orange plastic with a yellow plastic spoiler and clear windshield. Only the face was painted. Chrome and stickers did all the highlight and detail work. This new deco with painted legs and only minimal tampos actually does a good job at doing what it's intended to do-represent the character in animation colors. I am growing tired of trying to make this toy be something it isn't. I need to just let it go and appreciate it for what it really is and not what I want it to be. The prototype will never exist at retail. Takara will not save me with an alternate deco.

Also the box doesn't work for me. I understand the shift to windowless packaging but what they did to fill the space here was underwhelming. They could have depicted a much more iconic scene from the movie. Instead we got car Hot Rod doing doughnuts in the shuttle cockpit next to robot Hot Rod running to confront something coming from behind the seats. What scene is this supposed to invoke? It's almost like they're imagining he was in the earthbound Autobot shuttle in the beginning of the movie during Megatron's attack, turning around to attack the baddies.

What they should have done is reimagine the '86 boxart with a modern artist's take and put that at the right, then fill the rest of the space with art inspired by the awesome moment where he's driving Daniel through the grass..

> 2034 isn't that far off. I really hope Hasbro does something huge for the anniversary.

Whatever the popularity of the line is, if it's around at all they'll probably just reissue G1 Prime in silver and call it a day.

On Monday, January 2, 2023 at 11:33:36 AM UTC-7, evil.king.m...@gmail.com wrote:

> This new deco with painted legs and only minimal tampos actually does a good job at doing what it's intended to do-represent the character in animation colors. I am growing tired of trying to make this toy be something it isn't.
Well, every single toy based on characters introduced in The Transformers: the Movie was just an attempt at a physical representation of what we saw on the screen. But, there were so many limitations due to the impossible transformations that Floro Dery invented, or how much Hasbro was willing to spend on paint deco in the name of screen accuracy. No physical representations of the characters will ever be 100% faithful to the animation, except I suppose for the non-transformable stuff that Super7 is doing.

Even if Hasbro had kept Hot Rod's colors closer to hot magenta back in 1986, though, he still wouldn't have been identical to the prototype. There would have been changes. So, I think this toy is less of an attempt at offering a prototype version and just a more straightforward modern attempt at capturing the animation look more closely.

I actually kind of love that Hasbro is doing this. As I've said, any time I've tried to customize a G1 toy, it's always been with the intent to make it look more like the animated version. I actually have a G1 Hot Rod toy that I painted into the cartoon colors, and it's so visually different. A good color scheme really can make or break a toy. And I love that they're venturing into other toys like the upcoming cartoon Hound. It's such a great way of keeping the G1 reissues going without just offering the exact same thing every five years or so.

There are so many fans (do I even call them fans?) who are *angry* about the cartoon Hound. Like, they're absolutely *livid.* I just don't understand that. It's not like his existence somehow wipes out all the toy-colored Hounds from the face of the Earth. There are still plenty of semi-affordable 1984 G1 vintage units and 2004 Takara reissues (man, his price has skyrocketed) on the planet for those who want one. I think there's even a Zhong Jin version you can get for like fifty bucks, and I imagine only the most discerning of collectors would consider that unacceptable. (I have tentative plans to replace all my Zhong Jin fakes with legit versions, because I was asking myself "what will you do when there are no G1 toys left to buy?" and that seemed like a better idea than collecting Japanese and European toys.)

We already know that Hasbro/Takara have occasionally spent the money to restore damaged or missing molds to the G1 toys. Reportedly, all of Optimus Prime's die-cast parts had to be recast, and we know they made little fixes to Jazz and Hot Rod and Cliffjumper and the Constructicons. The mold for the Beast Wars Rattrap reissue had to be completely rebuilt, allegedly. So, we know that *sometimes* they will deign to fix or reconstruct the molds. And, really, it's the exact same thing Zhong Jin has done with all their "reissues." So, I think it's at least possible they might venture into characters who have never been reissued before. We could get cartoon versions of the G1 Dinobots. We might finally get Cyclonus and Scourge. I'm not saying I think it's *likely.* But, a year ago I never would have predicted a cartoon deco Hot Rod, either.

> Also the box doesn't work for me. I understand the shift to windowless packaging but what they did to fill the space here was underwhelming.

At first I thought that a box design more strongly evoking the G1 packaging would be the way to go, but now I'm having second thoughts about that. Remember when they reissued the Titans Return toys but put them in G1-style packaging? That was almost like a bait-and-switch. When news of them first broke, I was actually uncertain whether they were legit vintage G1 reissues, or new toys stuffed into old-style packaging. I guarantee you at least one person out there got suckered into buying them, thinking they were the original 1987 Headmaster toys. So, I wonder if they deliberately made a shift away from replicating the old-style packaging for that reason.
> Whatever the popularity of the line is, if it's around at all they'll probably just reissue G1 Prime in silver and call it a day.

They've done a Ninja Turtles figure entirely in vac-metal gold, and at one point they did a commemorative R2-D2 that was entirely silver from head to toe. They haven't really done that with Transformers yet (and I think it would be problematic due to all the moving parts), but I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see it at some point.

Zob (no, the Golden Lagoon toys by Takara don't count)

On Tuesday, January 3, 2023 at 9:26:20 AM UTC-8, Zobovor wrote:
> And I love that they're venturing into other toys like the upcoming cartoon Hound. It's such a great way of keeping the G1 reissues going without just offering the exact same thing every five years or so.

I like how they're thinking in weird ways. Maybe we'll see a hologram Hound or invisible Mirage one day.

> (I have tentative plans to replace all my Zhong Jin fakes with legit versions, because I was asking myself "what will you do when there are no G1 toys left to buy?" and that seemed like a better idea than collecting Japanese and European toys.)

I thought one of your strongest arguments for buying reissues and Zhong Jin was that plastic quality and paint jobs on freshly produced toys is superior to all but the mintiest vintage releases. Definitely cheaper, too. So rebuying the originals to replace the Zhong Jin kind of reverses that thinking. It's gonna be tough to find a Sunstreaker with nice chrome or a Mirage with unyellowed blue plastic and correctly applied stickers. Good luck.

> So, I think it's at least possible they might venture into characters who have never been reissued before. We could get cartoon versions of the G1 Dinobots. We might finally get Cyclonus and Scourge. I'm not saying I think it's *likely.* But, a year ago I never would have predicted a cartoon deco Hot Rod, either.

If ever these ideas were viable I think the time to do them is now. I feel like we're in the final hurrah of G1 focused releases before Hasbro moves on to producing whatever millennials are nostalgic for. I just don't see any generation beyond us who would equate a Vietnam era Army Jeep with a modern warfare alt mode.

> > Also the box doesn't work for me. I understand the shift to windowless packaging but what they did to fill the space here was underwhelming.
> At first I thought that a box design more strongly evoking the G1 packaging would be the way to go, but now I'm having second thoughts about that.

I am curious to see what packaging or subline this Hound is being released in. I don't think a G1 mold would fit in Studio Series '86. I also don't see it getting lumped in with the unnamed G1 reissue '86 movie tribute line that Starscream and magenta Hot Rod are part of. It's just cartoon Hound. It could be the beginning of some sort of Sunbow Series or something similarly named. Or of course it'll probably just be Buzzworthy boxes.

> Remember when they reissued the Titans Return toys but put them in G1-style packaging?

I'm still waiting for that Titans Misfire in retro packaging that was rumored.

>That was almost like a bait-and-switch. When news of them first broke, I was actually uncertain whether they were legit vintage G1 reissues, or new toys stuffed into old-style packaging. I guarantee you at least one person out there got suckered into buying them, thinking they were the original 1987 Headmaster toys. So, I wonder if they deliberately made a shift away from replicating the old-style packaging for that reason.

But new releases in retro packaging works fine for Star Wars and GI Joe and nobody gets confused there. Transformer fans would have to be really dumb to raise a fuss about that. They way they put '87 era Headmaster characters in boxes with the '84 style logo on the flap made me regret wishing for new molds in old style boxes. And they altered iconic imagery by putting mouths on the box art of Hardhead and Brainstorm, which kinda felt blasphemous. Be careful what you wish for Hasbro to do I learned. Still I thought it was neat and it differentiated itself enough from the originals that nobody would get confused. Or at least nobody that was paying attention. If anyone did feel it was a bait and switch I'd love to meet that guy.

The real death knell for G1 retro packaging is the shift toward eliminating window boxes. That policy has pretty much ended the retro box train ride before it left the station.

> Zob (no, the Golden Lagoon toys by Takara don't count)

The 50th anniversary Optimus Prime should turn into one of those small buses that transports the elderly to retirement living villages. Or a hearse.

On Saturday, January 7, 2023 at 7:58:16 PM UTC-7, evil.king.m...@gmail.com wrote:

> I like how they're thinking in weird ways. Maybe we'll see a hologram Hound or invisible Mirage one day.

That would honestly be kind of awesome.

> I thought one of your strongest arguments for buying reissues and Zhong Jin was that plastic quality and paint jobs on freshly produced toys is superior to all but the mintiest vintage releases. Definitely cheaper, too. So rebuying the originals to replace the Zhong Jin kind of reverses that thinking. It's gonna be tough to find a Sunstreaker with nice chrome or a Mirage with unyellowed blue plastic and correctly applied stickers. Good luck.

Well, here's the thing. There are some Hasbro reissues with those black rifles and missiles, or the long Seeker missiles, and they drive me nuts. They don't look authentic. So, I mean, I might just replace the missiles and guns and call it good. My goal is to have toys on display that look like a G1 collection, and the wrong-looking missiles just don't cut it. A Zhong Jin version of Prowl with G1 guns would be better than a fully G1 Prowl with sticker wear and a broken windshield, though. I'm trying to balance authenticity with aesthetics here.

When I was originally collecting the G1 reissues, I bought all the ones I could get my hands on, and then when Hasbro/Takara wasn't doing any more, I moved to Zhong Jin because I still wanted more reissues. Then when that supply was exhausted, there was nothing left to buy but vintage G1. If I'd been planning ahead a little better, I probably should have jumped into G1 vintage to begin with. But, reissues and fake Chinese bootlegs were much more affordable.

The only Zhong Jin toys I'm absolutely dissatisfied with are Wheeljack and Squawkbox. They didn't get the pin assembly on Wheeljack's legs right, and my toy just won't stand up or transform correctly. When I spread his feet too far apart, the pins become misaligned and it's super frustrating. And, for some reason, Beast Box and Squawktalk are of incredibly poor quality compared to what I've usually come to expect from Zhong Jin.

It's incredibly disingenuous of me to have this toy collection that's such a random mix of vintage G1 and modern official reissues and Chinese fakes. I feel like a fraud sometimes. I know we all have our own standards regarding what does and does not constitute a "proper" toy collection. (A handful of my authentic G1 toys have reproduction stickers and that feels a little like cheating, too.)

> If ever these ideas were viable I think the time to do them is now. I feel like we're in the final hurrah of G1 focused releases before Hasbro moves on to producing whatever millennials are nostalgic for. I just don't see any generation beyond us who would equate a Vietnam era Army Jeep with a modern warfare alt mode.

G1 is still their biggest cash cow when it comes to neo-G1, though. On Hasbro Pulse, the G1 characters are always, always the first to sell out in any given wave, and it's the newer guys, the stragglers from Beast Wars or Armada or Prime or whatever, who are always left over. There's interest in the other universes, for sure, but not as much interest as there is in G1. They won't give up on G1 altogether until that trend is reversed. It will happen, eventually, but we're not there yet.

And now I think Hasbro is at long last opening their eyes to the wealth of characters from the Japanese continuities. Those characters have gone largely ignored for decades, but with the advent of HasLab projects like Star Saber and Deathsaurus, I think Hasbro is willing to delve into more obscure Japanese characters if it means keeping the G1 tributes coming. They could do neo-G1 versions of the Trainbots, for example, for fans who haven't wanted to buy the much more expensive Masterpiece versions. (I don't want the characters when they're $150-$180 a pop, but I'd buy versions of them that were $30.)

> I am curious to see what packaging or subline this Hound is being released in. I don't think a G1 mold would fit in Studio Series '86. I also don't see it getting lumped in with the unnamed G1 reissue '86 movie tribute line that Starscream and magenta Hot Rod are part of. It's just cartoon Hound.

I imagine he'll be in the same packaging as Hot Rod and Starscream, yeah. I mean, he's technically in The Transformers: the Movie for like three seconds. Anybody who has screen time is fair game, as far as I'm concerned.

> I'm still waiting for that Titans Misfire in retro packaging that was rumored.

I think that rumor popped up long enough ago that if it was going to happen, we would have heard something by now. I don't think it's happening, but I would be delighted to be proved wrong.

> But new releases in retro packaging works fine for Star Wars and GI Joe and nobody gets confused there.

I honestly do get confused. The 3.75" packaging looks just like the six-inch Black Series packaging, so any time they announce a new Star Wars toy, it isn't obvious to me what scale it is.

> The real death knell for G1 retro packaging is the shift toward eliminating window boxes.

They're going to need to do something different. There are way too many incidents of people going to stores and stealing pieces out of the boxes, or returning the toy boxes with the wrong toy inside. Maybe they can compromise and develop a plastic made of plants or something, that is more biodegradable and will break down chemically in a matter of months instead of years..

Zob (and, lest we forget, the entire Transformer is made of plastic, so how much plastic are they really eliminating when all is said and done?)

Been getting these messages a lot on my online orders:
"Delayed, check back for updates"
It's really irritating because they said it would be arriving on Friday.
It never arrived and the status just switched to that message.