Genocide in Science Fiction

In commemoration of the Chengdu Worldcon's Guests of Honour, a brief
discussion of genocide in science fiction.
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/genocide-in-science-fiction
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 9:22:49 AM UTC-4, James Nicoll wrote:
> Genocide in Science Fiction
>
> In commemoration of the Chengdu Worldcon's Guests of Honour, a brief
> discussion of genocide in science fiction.
>
> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/genocide-in-science-fiction

[snip]

The definition used in the UN Convention
(https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml) is so
broad that it raises a variety of questions when used in SFnal
contexts. For example, it states that:

> Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group

counts as genocide. What if humans encounter an alien civilization
whose worldview is so alien-centric -- think ca. 1000 AD Europe, only
more so -- that revealing their relatively insignificant role in the
larger universe causes them "serious mental harm"?

In article <53b6af84-d0ac-4ec2-9e27-e9aead649e30n@googlegroups.com>,
Ahasuerus <ahasuerus@email.com> wrote:
>On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 9:22:49 AM UTC-4, James Nicoll wrote:
>> Genocide in Science Fiction
>>
>> In commemoration of the Chengdu Worldcon's Guests of Honour, a brief
>> discussion of genocide in science fiction.
>>
>> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/genocide-in-science-fiction
>
>[snip]
>
>The definition used in the UN Convention
>(https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml) is so
>broad that it raises a variety of questions when used in SFnal
>contexts. For example, it states that:
>
>> Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group
>
>counts as genocide. What if humans encounter an alien civilization
>whose worldview is so alien-centric -- think ca. 1000 AD Europe, only
>more so -- that revealing their relatively insignificant role in the
>larger universe causes them "serious mental harm"?

That's the backstory to Decision at Doona and why the powers that
be are so averse to first contact with new civilizations.

It's also what drives a lot of Lovecraft.

--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 2:22:49 PM UTC+1, James Nicoll wrote:
> Genocide in Science Fiction
>
> In commemoration of the Chengdu Worldcon's Guests of Honour, a brief
> discussion of genocide in science fiction.
>
> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/genocide-in-science-fiction
> --
> My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
> My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
> My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
> My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
The two examples that come to mind are both arguably genocide of a genocidal species. Marc C DuQuesne is the leading figure in the wiping out of the Chlorans, who were engaged in the slow conquest of all of humanity, although at least in the short term their objective was the more cost-effective goal of slavery rather than pure genocide. In the second book of Honsinger's Man of War series, "For Honor We Stand" we hear about the Bhandka, one solution of the Fermi problem. They disliked change, so they not only locked down the structure of own their society, but wiped out nearby intelligent species who were developing industrial civilisations, before they could develop spaceflight, interact with the Bhandka, and change them. Beyond the Bhandka's vision and imagination lived the Vaatch, and when they got to hear about the Bhandka, they wiped them out in their turn, before the Bhandka got around to noticing and wiping out humanity and its neighbouring emerging civilsations, who therefore developed interstellar travel at about the same time and met each other in space.

Mark C DuQuesne could also have starred in James's suprisingly devoted SFF couples. Also at the end of the story, the woman he has lusted after in his free moments between plots reveals that she has always loved him, and was just waiting for a credible invitation to something more permanent than short-term lust. They stride off into the sunset to found an empire together.

On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 11:42:50 PM UTC+10, Ahasuerus wrote:
> On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 9:22:49 AM UTC-4, James Nicoll wrote:
> > Genocide in Science Fiction
> >
> > In commemoration of the Chengdu Worldcon's Guests of Honour, a brief
> > discussion of genocide in science fiction.
> >
> > https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/genocide-in-science-fiction
> [snip]
>
> The definition used in the UN Convention
> (https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml) is so
> broad that it raises a variety of questions when used in SFnal
> contexts. For example, it states that:
>
> > Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group

if it
"means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group,"
>
> counts as genocide. What if humans encounter an alien civilization
> whose worldview is so alien-centric -- think ca. 1000 AD Europe, only
> more so -- that revealing their relatively insignificant role in the
> larger universe causes them "serious mental harm"?

On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 7:22:49 AM UTC-6, James Nicoll wrote:

> In commemoration of the Chengdu Worldcon's Guests of Honour,

As Chengdu is located in the People's Republic of China, if they're
Uyghurs, they and the Worldcon organizers are being put at an
insanely excessive amount of risk.

Outside of science fiction, evil overlords in real life tend to behave
as if they _have_ read the Evil Overlord's Handbook.

John Savard

On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 7:22:49 AM UTC-6, James Nicoll wrote:
> Genocide in Science Fiction

I remember one really old work of science fiction that quite cheerfully
advocated genocide as a good general principle.

It's somewhat obscure these days, but it did get reprinted post-World
War II despite this.

I refer to "The Radio Planet" by Ralph Milne Farley and its sequels. In
one of those sequels, I remember reading a passage in which an ally
of the protagonists, the last survivor of a race of intelligent giant
houseflies that shared this planet with a humanoid race, is mentioned,
which segues into a justification of the principle that no planet has
room for more than one intelligent species - the consequence would
be constant war until the only possible escape, genocide, is carried
out.

Of course, it's not hard to see where such a pessimistic view could
come from. Malthusianism, after all, is one of the inputs in the
intellectual climate of the time which allowed Charles Darwin to
come up with the Theory of Evolution by Natural Selection.

Given limited resources, and given that every species reproduces
at more than a replacement level - leading to exponential growth
until limited by death - then, before the Pill was invented, showing
humanity that there was indeed another way, the conclusion would
seem obvious - every race would be ruthless against any obstacle
that prevented their beloved babies from surviving to reach adulthood,
by restricting access to arable land and so on. Ruthless against
weeds, ruthless against wolves, and ruthless against indigenous
hunter gatherers occupying potential farmland.

While civilized humans of different ethnicities might become part
of a shared community, if intelligent beings of different species
were involved, it might seem too much to ask.

The modern world as we know it, with its consciousness of
equality transformed by being seared by the Holocaust,
and with a non-Malthusian future opened up by the
effectiveness of the birth control pill, is genuinely alien
to the general consciousness that existed in the Western
world as recently as the 1930s, and we often fail to realize
that fact.

John Savard

In article <228cefcc-4328-4640-a203-a663ba47afd5n@googlegroups.com>,
Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>Outside of science fiction, evil overlords in real life tend to behave
>as if they _have_ read the Evil Overlord's Handbook.

(Hal Heydt)
Observing the course of the Russian war on Ukraine, I'm not so
sure about that.

On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 12:55:57 PM UTC-4, Hamish Laws wrote:
> On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 11:42:50 PM UTC+10, Ahasuerus wrote:
> > On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 9:22:49 AM UTC-4, James Nicoll wrote:
> > > Genocide in Science Fiction
> > >
> > > In commemoration of the Chengdu Worldcon's Guests of Honour, a brief
> > > discussion of genocide in science fiction.
> > >
> > > https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/genocide-in-science-fiction
> > [snip]
> >
> > The definition used in the UN Convention
> > (https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml) is so
> > broad that it raises a variety of questions when used in SFnal
> > contexts. For example, it states that:
> >
> > > Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group
> if it
> "means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy,
> in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group,"
> >
> > counts as genocide. What if humans encounter an alien civilization
> > whose worldview is so alien-centric -- think ca. 1000 AD Europe, only
> > more so -- that revealing their relatively insignificant role in the
> > larger universe causes them "serious mental harm"?

You may be able to use it in a science fiction story:

"How do you plead, defendant?"

"Not guilty, Your Honor. It never occurred to me that they might go
berserk!"

On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 10:19:32 AM UTC-4, James Nicoll wrote:
> In article <53b6af84-d0ac-4ec2...@googlegroups.com>,
> Ahasuerus <ahas...@email.com> wrote:
> >On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 9:22:49 AM UTC-4, James Nicoll wrote:
> >> Genocide in Science Fiction
> >>
> >> In commemoration of the Chengdu Worldcon's Guests of Honour, a brief
> >> discussion of genocide in science fiction.
> >>
> >> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/genocide-in-science-fiction
> >
> >[snip]
> >
> >The definition used in the UN Convention
> >(https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml) is so
> >broad that it raises a variety of questions when used in SFnal
> >contexts. For example, it states that:
> >
> >> Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group
> >
> >counts as genocide. What if humans encounter an alien civilization
> >whose worldview is so alien-centric -- think ca. 1000 AD Europe, only
> >more so -- that revealing their relatively insignificant role in the
> >larger universe causes them "serious mental harm"?
> That's the backstory to Decision at Doona and why the powers that
> be are so averse to first contact with new civilizations.
>
> It's also what drives a lot of Lovecraft.

Then again, some Lovecraft's protagonists might suffer irreparable
mental harm after being confronted by a determined squirrel.

On 2023-08-12 7:22 a.m., James Nicoll wrote:
> Genocide in Science Fiction
>
> In commemoration of the Chengdu Worldcon's Guests of Honour, a brief
> discussion of genocide in science fiction.
>
> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/genocide-in-science-fiction

Desperately needed a mention of Doc Smith the OG genocidal enthusiast.

On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 8:47:20 PM UTC-6, Ahasuerus wrote:

> "How do you plead, defendant?"
>
> "Not guilty, Your Honor. It never occurred to me that they might go
> berserk!"

Hey, that's a recent news story. Influencer "beyond disappointed" in fans
who riot after video game giveaway turns out to be nonexistent...

John Savard

On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 6:25:04 PM UTC-6, Quadibloc wrote:

> The modern world as we know it, with its consciousness of
> equality transformed by being seared by the Holocaust,
> and with a non-Malthusian future opened up by the
> effectiveness of the birth control pill, is genuinely alien
> to the general consciousness that existed in the Western
> world as recently as the 1930s, and we often fail to realize
> that fact.

Of course, though, cruel and brutal attempts to massacre large
numbers of people have always been considered shocking
throughout history.

Of course, another difference between the past and today is that
cruelty and brutality tended to be noticed less if they happened to
people of color.

But my point lies in a different direction: that back then, people
thought that the gradual disappearance of indigenous people,
such as Native Americans, called the "Vanishing American", was
just nature taking its course upon those who were unable to
keep up with the modern world.

John Savard

On Sunday, 13 August 2023 at 03:47:20 UTC+1, Ahasuerus wrote:
> On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 12:55:57 PM UTC-4, Hamish Laws wrote:
> > On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 11:42:50 PM UTC+10, Ahasuerus wrote:
> > > On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 9:22:49 AM UTC-4, James Nicoll wrote:
> > > > Genocide in Science Fiction
> > > >
> > > > In commemoration of the Chengdu Worldcon's Guests of Honour, a brief
> > > > discussion of genocide in science fiction.
> > > >
> > > > https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/genocide-in-science-fiction
> > > [snip]
> > >
> > > The definition used in the UN Convention
> > > (https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml) is so
> > > broad that it raises a variety of questions when used in SFnal
> > > contexts. For example, it states that:
> > >
> > > > Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group
> > if it
> > "means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy,
> > in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group,"
> > >
> > > counts as genocide. What if humans encounter an alien civilization
> > > whose worldview is so alien-centric -- think ca. 1000 AD Europe, only
> > > more so -- that revealing their relatively insignificant role in the
> > > larger universe causes them "serious mental harm"?
> You may be able to use it in a science fiction story:
>
> "How do you plead, defendant?"
>
> "Not guilty, Your Honor. It never occurred to me that they might go
> berserk!"

As for the question of "intent", my point of view
is that if it's known that action A is likely to lead
to outcome B, then you cannot perform action A
and claim that you did not intend outcome B.

Late _Star Trek: The Next Generation_ did a "these
people aren't ready for the universe" story.
<https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Homeward_(episode)>

Douglas Adams gave us the xenophobic planet
Krikkit, and also Trin Tragula's machine which
makes you aware of your true significance in the
universe, juvpu vf n zrgubq bs rkrphgvba.

On 2023-08-12, James Nicoll <jdnicoll@panix.com> wrote:

> Genocide in Science Fiction
> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/genocide-in-science-fiction

I would like to mention two examples I found poignant.

Charles Pellegrino/George Zebrowski, _The Killing Star_ certainly
loads the dice: The premise is that relativistic bombardment can
wipe out your interstellar neighbors and there is no defense. The
only reasonable option is to strike first. Now, when this was
written in 1995, humans exterminating alien species willy-nilly was
no longer fashionable, so the authors turned it around. On the
first few pages, humanity is virtually extinguished and then the
cleanup crew arrives to take care of the last few stragglers. There
is even a brief contact between the attackers and some survivors.
The aliens are almost apologetic. We can't take the risk that you
guys might exterminate us, so we had to strike first. This is the
way the universe works. Genocide can't be avoided.

The other instance is from S. Andrew Swann's novels. In his
chronologically earlier _Moreau_ books, an alien species, the Race,
keeps covertly interfering with humanity to keep us from becoming
a danger to them, since the Race's ethics prevents them from
exterminating us directly. Unfortunately for them, their activities
fail to remain undetected, creating a self-fulfilling prophecy:
Because of the Race's interference, they are an extistential threat.
Fast forward to Swann's _Hostile Takeover_ books set a few centuries
later. The Race is now extinct. At some point between the two
book series, off screen, humanity had sent a fleet of warships to
the Race's home system and enacted a final solution to their
interference with human affairs. Humans did _not_ share the Race's
moral inhibitions.

--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de

On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 5:30:09 PM UTC+1, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
> On 2023-08-12, James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
>
> > Genocide in Science Fiction
> > https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/genocide-in-science-fiction
>
> I would like to mention two examples I found poignant.
>
> Charles Pellegrino/George Zebrowski, _The Killing Star_ certainly
> loads the dice: The premise is that relativistic bombardment can
> wipe out your interstellar neighbors and there is no defense. The
> only reasonable option is to strike first. Now, when this was
> written in 1995, humans exterminating alien species willy-nilly was
> no longer fashionable, so the authors turned it around. On the
> first few pages, humanity is virtually extinguished and then the
> cleanup crew arrives to take care of the last few stragglers. There
> is even a brief contact between the attackers and some survivors.
> The aliens are almost apologetic. We can't take the risk that you
> guys might exterminate us, so we had to strike first. This is the
> way the universe works. Genocide can't be avoided.
>
> The other instance is from S. Andrew Swann's novels. In his
> chronologically earlier _Moreau_ books, an alien species, the Race,
> keeps covertly interfering with humanity to keep us from becoming
> a danger to them, since the Race's ethics prevents them from
> exterminating us directly. Unfortunately for them, their activities
> fail to remain undetected, creating a self-fulfilling prophecy:
> Because of the Race's interference, they are an extistential threat.
> Fast forward to Swann's _Hostile Takeover_ books set a few centuries
> later. The Race is now extinct. At some point between the two
> book series, off screen, humanity had sent a fleet of warships to
> the Race's home system and enacted a final solution to their
> interference with human affairs. Humans did _not_ share the Race's
> moral inhibitions.
>
> --
> Christian "naddy" Weisgerber na...@mips.inka.de
The Moreau remind me a little of the forerunner race in Drake's RCN series, the Archaic Spacefarers. In the last book in the series, "To clear away the shadows" we see strong evidence that they were interfering in the evolution of species that were destined to develop intelligence so as to thwart this destiny. In the Telzey Amberdon story "Compulsion" which I have in "The Telzey Toy" the Hana are powerful psi beings which appear as trees. They attract other intelligent beings by giving out a sense of good feeling, which becomes addictive. Very quickly the descendants of those addicted to them devolve into a non-intelligent species described as parasitic on and dependent on the trees.

On 8/12/2023 8:22 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
> Genocide in Science Fiction
>
> In commemoration of the Chengdu Worldcon's Guests of Honour, a brief
> discussion of genocide in science fiction.
>
> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/genocide-in-science-fiction

"Alan Dean Foster’s The Tar-Aiym Krang relates in passing the
regrettable matter of the Pitar, an alien race that while superficially
friendly proved relentless xenophobic. Facing no choice to kill or be
killed, humans and their insectile Thranx allies united to wipe the
Pitar from the face of the galaxy. Very sad but certainly not something
either humans or Thranx would have chosen had there been other choices2."

Great book (one of my six star books) and a great lead into a very good
series.

Lynn

On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 9:55:50 PM UTC-7, David Johnston wrote:
> On 2023-08-12 7:22 a.m., James Nicoll wrote:
> > Genocide in Science Fiction
> >
> > In commemoration of the Chengdu Worldcon's Guests of Honour, a brief
> > discussion of genocide in science fiction.
> >
> > https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/genocide-in-science-fiction
> Desperately needed a mention of Doc Smith the OG genocidal enthusiast.

For OG, try Jack London, "The unparalleled invasion", 1910.

Pt

On 2023-08-12 7:42 a.m., Ahasuerus wrote:
> On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 9:22:49 AM UTC-4, James Nicoll wrote:
>> Genocide in Science Fiction
>>
>> In commemoration of the Chengdu Worldcon's Guests of Honour, a brief
>> discussion of genocide in science fiction.
>>
>> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/genocide-in-science-fiction
>
> [snip]
>
> The definition used in the UN Convention
> (https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml) is so
> broad that it raises a variety of questions when used in SFnal
> contexts. For example, it states that:
>
>> Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group
>
> counts as genocide. What if humans encounter an alien civilization
> whose worldview is so alien-centric -- think ca. 1000 AD Europe, only
> more so -- that revealing their relatively insignificant role in the
> larger universe causes them "serious mental harm"?

That is not of course the definition. It's just a fragment of the
definition taken out of context. The whole definition is

n the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts
committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national,
ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

Killing members of the group;
Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to
bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group

So it has to be intentional. We find out that a certain species of
alien sees humans as eldritch horrors due to our lack of an exoskeleton
and will go mad if they see us and decide to just go down and say "hi"
to the locals anyway. Genocide.

Note that with Childhood's End the conquering aliens are not
deliberately wiping us out. They are merely intervening to keep the
humans from killing their children when we realize that they are no
longer human and they are the last generation of humanity. Either way,
humanity is extinct. The Overmind the children will feed probably is
committing genocide on us, though since natural evolution doesn't work
like that.

I think Octavia Butler had aliens who were committing genocide by
requiring us to hybridize with them until there would be no non-hybrids
left.

On 8/12/2023 8:22 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
> Genocide in Science Fiction
>
> In commemoration of the Chengdu Worldcon's Guests of Honour, a brief
> discussion of genocide in science fiction.
>
> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/genocide-in-science-fiction

There is another SF book where genocide is committed of a sub-race of
people on Earth by editing their DNA.

Lynn

On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 4:32:12 PM UTC-4, David Johnston wrote:
> On 2023-08-12 7:42 a.m., Ahasuerus wrote:
> > On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 9:22:49 AM UTC-4, James Nicoll wrote:
> >> Genocide in Science Fiction
> >>
> >> In commemoration of the Chengdu Worldcon's Guests of Honour, a brief
> >> discussion of genocide in science fiction.
> >>
> >> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/genocide-in-science-fiction
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> > The definition used in the UN Convention
> > (https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml) is so
> > broad that it raises a variety of questions when used in SFnal
> > contexts. For example, it states that:
> >
> >> Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group
> >
> > counts as genocide. What if humans encounter an alien civilization
> > whose worldview is so alien-centric -- think ca. 1000 AD Europe, only
> > more so -- that revealing their relatively insignificant role in the
> > larger universe causes them "serious mental harm"?
> That is not of course the definition. It's just a fragment of the
> definition taken out of context. The whole definition is
>
> n the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts
> committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national,
> ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
[snip]
> So it has to be intentional. [snip-snip]

As I mentioned earlier:

> You may be able to use it in a science fiction story:

> "How do you plead, defendant?"

> "Not guilty, Your Honor. It never occurred to me that they might go
berserk!"

....which kicks off good old-fashioned court drama where the parties
argue over ever-changing evidence/testimony.

On 2023-08-14 12:11 p.m., pete...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 9:55:50 PM UTC-7, David Johnston wrote:
>> On 2023-08-12 7:22 a.m., James Nicoll wrote:
>>> Genocide in Science Fiction
>>>
>>> In commemoration of the Chengdu Worldcon's Guests of Honour, a brief
>>> discussion of genocide in science fiction.
>>>
>>> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/genocide-in-science-fiction
>> Desperately needed a mention of Doc Smith the OG genocidal enthusiast.
>
> For OG, try Jack London, "The unparalleled invasion", 1910.
>
> Pt

Yeah but he only wrote that story once.

On Thursday, August 17, 2023 at 2:53:47 PM UTC-4, David Johnston wrote:
> On 2023-08-14 12:11 p.m., pete...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 9:55:50 PM UTC-7, David Johnston wrote:
> >> On 2023-08-12 7:22 a.m., James Nicoll wrote:
> >>> Genocide in Science Fiction
> >>>
> >>> In commemoration of the Chengdu Worldcon's Guests of Honour, a brief
> >>> discussion of genocide in science fiction.
> >>>
> >>> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/genocide-in-science-fiction
> >> Desperately needed a mention of Doc Smith the OG genocidal enthusiast.
> >
> > For OG, try Jack London, "The unparalleled invasion", 1910.
> >
> > Pt
> Yeah but he only wrote that story once.

If we are discussing the etermination of a class of alien beings,
would that not be _speciecide_? Maybe slap a xeno- in front?

https://www.etymonline.com/word/genocide

Kevin R
a.a #2310

On Thursday, 17 August 2023 at 23:42:31 UTC+1, Kevrob wrote:
> On Thursday, August 17, 2023 at 2:53:47 PM UTC-4, David Johnston wrote:
> > On 2023-08-14 12:11 p.m., pete...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 9:55:50 PM UTC-7, David Johnston wrote:
> > >> On 2023-08-12 7:22 a.m., James Nicoll wrote:
> > >>> Genocide in Science Fiction
> > >>>
> > >>> In commemoration of the Chengdu Worldcon's Guests of Honour, a brief
> > >>> discussion of genocide in science fiction.
> > >>>
> > >>> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/genocide-in-science-fiction
> > >> Desperately needed a mention of Doc Smith the OG genocidal enthusiast.
> > >
> > > For OG, try Jack London, "The unparalleled invasion", 1910.
> > >
> > > Pt
> > Yeah but he only wrote that story once.
> If we are discussing the etermination of a class of alien beings,
> would that not be _speciecide_? Maybe slap a xeno- in front?
>
> https://www.etymonline.com/word/genocide

Someone mentioned Alan Dean Foster's
Humans Commonwealth, maybe not here.
Humans and thranx cooperate with as little
mutual incomprehension as they can manage,
and they seem to have only done one genocide
of another species. I vaguely remember that
there are AAnn hanging around like Star Trek's
Klingons. AAnn don't need genocide, then?
(And it's not clear who handed out species names
in this setting. Ask the Vssey, if you can figure how.)
<https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Literature/HumanxCommonwealth>
notes about the trope of "Fantastic (fantasy) Racism"
that "By the main storyline, just about everyone
has gotten over it" with specific reference to
thranx being creepy big, big insects, and thranx
finding us difficult to swallow^accept.

I also may misremember a line from one book
where I think a thranx places the current menace
on the official danger scale as "a threat to the race",
and then explains that this means "the thinking race".
Which I take to mean: everybody. Or all people in
the Commonwealth, anyway. Did they say this?

On Thursday, August 17, 2023 at 1:53:47 PM UTC-5, David Johnston wrote:
> On 2023-08-14 12:11 p.m., pete...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 9:55:50 PM UTC-7, David Johnston wrote:
> >> On 2023-08-12 7:22 a.m., James Nicoll wrote:
> >>> Genocide in Science Fiction
> >>>
> >>> In commemoration of the Chengdu Worldcon's Guests of Honour, a brief
> >>> discussion of genocide in science fiction.
> >>>
> >>> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/genocide-in-science-fiction
> >> Desperately needed a mention of Doc Smith the OG genocidal enthusiast.
> >
> > For OG, try Jack London, "The unparalleled invasion", 1910.
> >
> > Pt
> Yeah but he only wrote that story once.

Yeah, Doc was a good SF writer, but he did have a thing about races that had to be wiped out. In story, the races in question are usually portrayed as being bad enough that genocide is necessary for the protagonists. But Smith did it over and over and over and over. The Chlorans, the Eddorians, the Eich, the Onlonians, the Delgonians, the Hexans, the Fenachrone, the Ploorans, etc.