ATT,

Another year of plastic robots in the books. Thankfully, we were spared a transformers movie this year, so that's good. Gustavo, as it turned out, did not die, also good news. Also in 2023, my trusty app "NewsTapLite" stopped interfacing with usenet, and I lost my ability to post on my device, all but silencing me. Now, it looks like ATT will be silenced all together. I definitely do not think this community will be the same once we all move to redit, but I do think it will be far more accessible. All in all, I am glad that we will continue to lumber along into the uncertain future to discuss the plastic robots we all love. It's what holds this small and aging community together.

Hasbro has been on a massive winning streak over the past few years, putting out the definitive transformers toys of the history of the line. It's been a wonderful ride, but I can't help feel 2023 was the death rattle of the streak. While there were a number of amazing toys in 2023, I feel like there was also a lot of "stuff" that was easily passed on (Legacy Toxitron series, Buzzworthy Bumblebee Series, the weird G1 retro releases). It was like Hasbro was throwing everything against the wall to see what stuck. I simply didn't buy as many toys this year as in the prior few years. (2023 will go down in the history books as one of the most inflationary periods in recent memory, so that could also have something to do with this trend.) Also, I'm not the first to look at what's coming down the pipe in 2024 from hasbro and yawn. With all that said, we should be pleased with what we got in 2023, and buckle up for a year of toy uncertainty in 2024.

Here is a reminder of the “rules”. All remain untouched from 2022.

1.) No ties. You have to pick one (Feel free to name as many honorable mentions as you wish!)
2.) No molds. If you pick a mold that has been redeco'd a zillion times, you have to declare which of the redecos you are picking.
3.) No third party toys
4.) Released in 2023 per https://www2.unicron.com/2023-transformers.html
5.) Cost is a factor in selection. The more expensive, the more "awesome" the toy has to be to win.
6.) Hasbro Pulse or other Store exclusives are eligible, and toys are not decremented for lack of availability.

Before I announce my pick for 2023, here are some of the figures that I saw as runner ups. These are all great toys, listed in no particular order:

Studio series 86 Ultra Magnus: Basically anything from the Studio Series 86 line could be considered for toy of the year. They are all amazing toys. I had to hand it to this Ultra Magnus, he is a notoriously difficult toy to make well. He is thick and boxy by design, and the car carrier alt mode is complex. This toy is the best Ultra Magnus ever made, so it merits mention.

Legacy Generations Selects Antagony: Yes, he is a repaint with some minor modifications. But damn is this one sexy toy. The black ant is terrifying and really makes the mold.

Studio Series 86 Snarl: The dinobot sized Dinobots continued to produce hits in 2023. Snarl was no disappointment. Yes, his tail isn't the best, but he is an absolute beast. I love this toy.

Studio Series 86 Brawn: Up until a few weeks ago, this was going to be my pick. We FINALLY get a brawn toy worthy of the character. Opening this toy gave me a massive endorphin rush, I was just so happy. It took me back to 1984. The only dig on this toy for me were his legs. I feel they could have been stouter, but it also closely resembles the original G1 toy. Mixed feelings there. Also, I picked Cosmos last year, so figured I needed to mix it up this year.

Here we go....

The 2023 ATT Toy of the Year Goes to….
..
..
..
..
..
..
SPOILERS
..
..
..
..
..
..
..

Studio Series 86 Junkion Scrapheap: WHO????? WHO THE HELL IS THAT? you may be asking. Well, that was part of my allure with this figure. They took a minor background character from the classic 86 movie and turned him into a toy. Very cool. What really brings this toy home is how incredible he is in both modes. I love the motorcycle mode, and the fact that other junkions can ride him is just the icing on the cake. I also love the yellow colored plastic. I feel like this is rare, we need more yellow transformers. His robot mode is of perfect proportions. His motorcycle has lots of gaps and panels that aren't designed to line up. But hey, he's a junkion! He's supposed to be haphazardly assembled. I am not sure if that was deliberate or not, but I'm going with it.

Well, that's a wrap! Look forward to hear who everyone else picked.

-Banzaitron

On Sunday, December 31, 2023 at 7:48:40 PM UTC-7, Banzaitron ATT wrote:

> Now, it looks like ATT will be silenced all together.

I'm honestly okay with using the NovaBBS link that Travoltron provided. It seems to work well enough. But, we should collectively reach a decision, before February, about what we want to do. I know some people have been resistant to the Reddit idea. I've been using it for years, so I'm well accustomed to it, but I can understand the reluctance.

> I can't help feel 2023 was the death rattle of the streak.

I'm largely in agreement. I tend to think this is truly the end of the John Warden era, but it's hard to say how much of what we got was the direct result of his strong influence. Regardless, it's been a good run.

> 4.) Released in 2023 per https://www2.unicron.com/2023-transformers.html

Some of their links seem to redirect to the 2022 releases. It doesn't seem like they've finished.

> Studio series 86 Ultra Magnus: Basically anything from the Studio Series 86 line could be considered for toy of the year. They are all amazing toys.

Magnus is the bomb. He says, "All right, hand me the bomb," and they just give him to himself. That's how much of the bomb he is.

> Legacy Generations Selects Antagony: Yes, he is a repaint with some minor modifications.

Did you just assume her gender?!

> Studio Series 86 Snarl: The dinobot sized Dinobots continued to produce hits in 2023. Snarl was no disappointment. Yes, his tail isn't the best, but he is an absolute beast. I love this toy.

Heh. "Dinobot-sized Dinobots." Yes, agreed completely.

> Studio Series 86 Brawn: Up until a few weeks ago, this was going to be my pick.

He's truly excellent. Such a great toy.

> Studio Series 86 Junkion Scrapheap: WHO????? WHO THE HELL IS THAT? you may be asking. Well, that was part of my allure with this figure. They took a minor background character from the classic 86 movie and turned him into a toy.

Is he out yet? I thought he wasn't due until around February 2024 or thereabouts.

Here's my list of toys released in 2023, as near as I can figure. I'm just counting collector-based stuff, not the silly toys for kids.

Airazor (RotB), Antagony (Generations Selects), Arcee (RotB Core), Autotrooper (Troop Builder), Axlegrease, Barricade (Gamer Edition), Battletrap (RotB), Beachcomber, Blackout (15th Anniversary). Blaster (G1 retro reissue), Bludgeon, Bombshell, Bonecrusher (2007 movie), Brawn (Studio Series '86), Breakdown (G1), Bumblebee (Core 2-pack), Bumblebee (DotM Core), Bumblebee (Gamer Edition), Bumblebee (RotB Deluxe), Burnout (Masterpiece), Cheetor (RotB), Cliffjumper (Gamer Edition), Cloudcover (Toxitron), Crashbar, Crosscut, Cybertronian Trooper (Troop Builder), Dark Leo Prime (Masterpiece), Dead End (Toxitron), Deathsaurus (HasLab), Decepticon Seeker (Troop Builder), Detritus, Devcon, Dion (War Dawn), Dreadwing (Prime), Erial (War Dawn), Fixit (HasLab), Freezer (RotB), Frenzy, Red (Core), Grimlock (AoE), Grimlock (Core), Grimlock (Toxitron), Guardian Robot, Hound (G1 retro reissue), Hot Rod (G1 retro reissue), Hot Shot (Armada), Hot Shot (Powerlinx), Ironhide (Buzzworthy), Ironhide (Core), Javelin (Deadeye Duel), Jazz (Origin), Jazz (Toxitron), Kaskade (Deadeye Duel), Kickback (G1 retro reissue), "Laser Cycle" (Toxitron), Leo Prime, Lunar-Tread, Magnificus (Hasbro Selects), Medix (Walgreens), Megatron (15th Anniversary), Megatron (Armada), Megatron (Gamer Edition), Menasor (Gift Set), Mirage (RotB), Mirage (Toxitron), Nacelle (Amazon), Needlenose, Nemesis (Titan), Nemesis Leo Prime, Nemesis Prime (Core), Nightbird (RotB), Noah Diaz (Exo-Suit), Novakane (RotB Core), Nova Prime (Amazon), Optimus Primal (RotB), Optimus Prime (Armada), Optimus Prime (Core 2-pack), Optimus Prime (DotM), Optimus Prime (Gamer Edition), Optimus Prime (RotB), Orion Pax (Humble Origins), Perceptor (G1 retro reissue), Prowl (Animated), Prowl (Buzzworthy), Quintesson Trooper (Troop Builder), Ratchet (DotM), Ratchet (Studio Series '86), Rewind, Rhinox (RotB), Rhinox (Studio Series), Scarr (Core), Scourge (RotB), Scraphook, Seawatch (HasLab), Shadow Striker (Cyberverse), Shockwave (Humble Origins), Shrapnel (G1 retro reissue), Shrapnel (Evolution), Sideswipe (Toxitron), Skyfire (Masterpiece), Skyquake (Prime), Skywarp (G1 retro reissue), Slag (Core), Sludge (Core), Snarl (Core), Snarl (Studio Series '86), Soundblaster (Core), Starscream (15th Anniversary), Starscream (G1 retro reissue), Steeljaw (G1 retro reissue), Strongarm (RiD2), Swoop (Core), Tarn, Thundercracker (Core), Thundercracker (G1 retro reissue), Tow-Line (RiD), Toxitron (Walmart), Trashmaster, Twincast, Ultra Magnus (Studio Series '86).

Good gravy, that is a LOT of toys that I just can't be bothered to care about. Like, well over half. Wow. Apologies if I left some out. (I know that some people are finding the first wave of United, but I think we should consider them 2024 toys. It's a moot point, though, since none of them are really very exciting. Ahem.)

Even though the G1 retro reissues are great, and I love them, I cannot in good faith vote for a Diaclone-era toy with ancient 1980's technology. And I can't vote for anything Core-class because they're just tiny.

Of the above list, I would say my favorites are: Beachcomber, Bombshell, Brawn (Studio Series '86), Breakdown (G1), Decepticon Seeker (Troop Builder), Devcon, Guardian Robot, Jazz (Origin), Needlenose, Ratchet (Studio Series '86), Shrapnel (Evolution), Skyfire (Masterpiece), Snarl (Studio Series '86), Ultra Magnus (Studio Series '86).

Breakdown gets an instant disqualification because of his incorrect vehicle mode. They ruined him. Look at how they massacred my boy.

Bombshell's stupid hat disqualifies him. I can forgive the Shrapnel legs, I suppose, but that stupid, stupid hat? Ugh.

Even though I love the Decepticon Seeker to death, he's just a redeco of an earlier toy, so he probably doesn't make the final cut. Guardian Robot, too, for the same reasons, though I do love him so.

Devcon is great, and it's amazing that we finally got a toy of this fan favorite (he's the Transformers equivalent of Boba Fett!), but at the end of the day he's just a recycled Blurr toy.

Masterpiece Skyfire is great, but if we're being fair, he's not $275 worth of great.

It's hard to make a decision this year. There were only a handful of truly phenomenal toys, but if I had to choose between Brawn or Snarl or Ultra Magnus, I would be hard pressed to pick just one of them. But, I don't think there are any toys that delighted me this year more than Ultra Magnus. He's such a miracle of engineering. He really truly is like a mini-Masterpiece. Indeed, they stole some ideas directly from the Masterpiece release, but they managed to give it to us in a $90 toy instead of the $200ish that the Masterpiece toy sold for, and that's an impressive feat.

So, yeah. Magnus for the win. He can finally deal with that now!

Zob (the wife is working tonight, so my New Year's celebration, such as it is, consists of watching Negan bash the pulp out of the heroes in The Walking Dead)

On Sunday, December 31, 2023 at 7:48:40 PM UTC-7, Banzaitron ATT wrote:

<snip>

Oh, I almost forgot. Now that you've been doing these for ten years or so (eleven, actually—I checked!), do we get to vote for Transformers Toy of the DECADE? I wonder how many people's opinions of toys they voted for eight or nine years ago have changed in recent years?

Zob (I think every one of my favorites gets dethroned on a long enough timeline... remember how much everybody universally loved Reveal the Shield Cyclonus until the Kingdom toy finally came along and took his spot?)

> Now, it looks like ATT will be silenced all together.

>> I'm honestly okay with using the NovaBBS link that Travoltron provided. It seems to work well enough. But, we should collectively reach a decision, before February, about what we want to do. I know some people have been resistant to the Reddit idea. I've been using it for years, so I'm well accustomed to it, but I can understand the reluctance.

That's good to hear. I would prefer if we kept ATT as 8-bit as possible, but I'll travel where ever the community decides. My fear with reddit is ATT gets overtaken with milenials blabbing about how great Michael Bay is, or finding their holy grail toy.

> 4.) Released in 2023 per https://www2.unicron.com/2023-transformers.html

>> Some of their links seem to redirect to the 2022 releases. It doesn't seem like they've finished.

I did notice that. I am hoping they don't give up like tfu.info. That website was absolutely amazing, but is woefully out of date today. I get it's hard to maintain with the pace of product being put out, and it's largely pro-bono work.

> Legacy Generations Selects Antagony: Yes, he is a repaint with some minor modifications.

>> Did you just assume her gender?!

HAHAHAHA! Well played sir.

> Studio Series 86 Junkion Scrapheap: WHO????? WHO THE HELL IS THAT? you may be asking. Well, that was part of my allure with this figure. They took a minor background character from the classic 86 movie and turned him into a toy.

>> Is he out yet? I thought he wasn't due until around February 2024 or thereabouts.

So I ordered him on Amazon a while ago and they said he would ship in February. He showed up at my doorstep last Thursday. There are a bunch of them on ebay so I don't think I am a fluke. I suppose if he doesn't get classified by unicron.com as a 2023 toy, Brawn will take the crown on a technicality?

> Here's my list of toys released in 2023, as near as I can figure. I'm just counting collector-based stuff, not the silly toys for kids.

> Airazor (RotB), Antagony (Generations Selects), Arcee (RotB Core), Autotrooper (Troop Builder), Axlegrease, Barricade (Gamer Edition), Battletrap (RotB), Beachcomber, Blackout (15th Anniversary). Blaster (G1 retro reissue), Bludgeon, Bombshell, Bonecrusher (2007 movie), Brawn (Studio Series '86), Breakdown (G1), Bumblebee (Core 2-pack), Bumblebee (DotM Core), Bumblebee (Gamer Edition), Bumblebee (RotB Deluxe), Burnout (Masterpiece), Cheetor (RotB), Cliffjumper (Gamer Edition), Cloudcover (Toxitron), Crashbar, Crosscut, Cybertronian Trooper (Troop Builder), Dark Leo Prime (Masterpiece), Dead End (Toxitron), Deathsaurus (HasLab), Decepticon Seeker (Troop Builder), Detritus, Devcon, Dion (War Dawn), Dreadwing (Prime), Erial (War Dawn), Fixit (HasLab), Freezer (RotB), Frenzy, Red (Core), Grimlock (AoE), Grimlock (Core), Grimlock (Toxitron), Guardian Robot, Hound (G1 retro reissue), Hot Rod (G1 retro reissue), Hot Shot (Armada), Hot Shot (Powerlinx), Ironhide (Buzzworthy), Ironhide (Core), Javelin (Deadeye Duel), Jazz (Origin), Jazz (Toxitron), Kaskade (Deadeye Duel), Kickback (G1 retro reissue), "Laser Cycle" (Toxitron), Leo Prime, Lunar-Tread, Magnificus (Hasbro Selects), Medix (Walgreens), Megatron (15th Anniversary), Megatron (Armada), Megatron (Gamer Edition), Menasor (Gift Set), Mirage (RotB), Mirage (Toxitron), Nacelle (Amazon), Needlenose, Nemesis (Titan), Nemesis Leo Prime, Nemesis Prime (Core), Nightbird (RotB), Noah Diaz (Exo-Suit), Novakane (RotB Core), Nova Prime (Amazon), Optimus Primal (RotB), Optimus Prime (Armada), Optimus Prime (Core 2-pack), Optimus Prime (DotM), Optimus Prime (Gamer Edition), Optimus Prime (RotB), Orion Pax (Humble Origins), Perceptor (G1 retro reissue), Prowl (Animated), Prowl (Buzzworthy), Quintesson Trooper (Troop Builder), Ratchet (DotM), Ratchet (Studio Series '86), Rewind, Rhinox (RotB), Rhinox (Studio Series), Scarr (Core), Scourge (RotB), Scraphook, Seawatch (HasLab), Shadow Striker (Cyberverse), Shockwave (Humble Origins), Shrapnel (G1 retro reissue), Shrapnel (Evolution), Sideswipe (Toxitron), Skyfire (Masterpiece), Skyquake (Prime), Skywarp (G1 retro reissue), Slag (Core), Sludge (Core), Snarl (Core), Snarl (Studio Series '86), Soundblaster (Core), Starscream (15th Anniversary), Starscream (G1 retro reissue), Steeljaw (G1 retro reissue), Strongarm (RiD2), Swoop (Core), Tarn, Thundercracker (Core), Thundercracker (G1 retro reissue), Tow-Line (RiD), Toxitron (Walmart), Trashmaster, Twincast, Ultra Magnus (Studio Series '86).

Curious... Did you come up with that list from MEMORY? (Still waiting for my Nemesis to show up)

>> Devcon is great, and it's amazing that we finally got a toy of this fan favorite (he's the Transformers equivalent of Boba Fett!), but at the end of the day he's just a recycled Blurr toy.

Agree. I probably should have put him as an honorable mention, or maybe even the prize. He's that good.

>> So, yeah. Magnus for the win. He can finally deal with that now!

A wonderful choice sir.

>> Oh, I almost forgot. Now that you've been doing these for ten years or so (eleven, actually—I checked!), do we get to vote for Transformers Toy of the DECADE?

Great idea. I'll start thinking about my choice.

-Banzaitron (Didn't even mention the amazing Super 7 Transformers Ultimates Banzaitron)

I want to start by quickly looking at toys from 10 and 20 years ago, not just to say that they were better, but also to get my head around what makes me like a toy long term.

2013 had the tail end of Fall of Cybertron (FOC was pretty much the start of The Great Cheapening), and had Hasbro and Takara beginning to figure out how to make toys with that budget. It also had the vast majority of TF:Prime Beast Hunters, which was dragons and remolded vehicles that had animal bits.

Some standout toys were Waspinator, Springer, and Sandstorm from Generations, and Ripclaw, Lazerback, Optimus Prime, Wheeljack and Bumblebee from Beast Hunters. All of these are either on permanent display, or in the boxes of frequently displayed toys.

(Springer would have drifted further back, since the Siege Springer toy is so good, but there’s something about having that Springer/Sandstorm pair and seeing all the differences.)

I don’t know what I would have thought the best toy was at the time, but now I would say either Waspinator or BH Optimus, with a “Best Adaptation Of An Existing Mold” award to Sandstorm.

2003 was an utterly baffling year that had almost no new molds. It’s shocking. There’s the Powerlinx portion of Armada, the first year of Universe 1.0, and then the first wave or so of Energon (which also had a lot of redecos).

Standout toys include the boat minicons and Tidal Wave from Armada, Starscream from Energon, and then a whole lot of redecos like Armada Rhinox, Energon Ultra Magnus, Energon Tidal Wave and Universe Optimus Primal.

Rhinox, Ultra Magnus and that Sea Mini-con Team are always out, and the rest are often out. If I were to pick one, it’s Rhinox. If I were to force my choice to be a new mold, I would fudge it and pick Energon Ultra Magnus as the original toy was also released that year.

So, that’s where we are — simple toys, a lot of emphasis on character and deco over articulation, and a fondness for gimmicks or at least gimmicky elements.

So, how does 2023 — or at least the parts of the 2023 toyline that I’ve dipped my toes into and liked — stack up?

Deathsaurus — he’s a great toy, but he’s large enough to be a chore rather than a fidget toy. The little boat micromaster is kind of amazing though.

ROTB Ultimate Optimus Primal — He borrows a lot from BW Ultra Optimus Primal. I love that he has spring loaded cannons on the forearms, and firing missiles, but both modes are black with dark gunmetal and a few spots of silver. The robot mode looks like a Black Panther toy (the black Optimus head is stylized, and those antenna look like ears, and he has super hero proportions with minimal kibble). He feels like a toy that would benefit from a redeco that focuses on bringing out new colors in robot mode.

(There are several other Primals. I wanted one that transformed, and this one wasn’t scalper bait. Did I choose well or poorly? No idea)

ROTB Scorponok With Sandspear — a really simple, chunky toy. His weapon partner is another scorpion. Colors are dull, like all movie beast toys, being beige and gray, but he adds some green in robot mode. He’s very silly because he shares an altmode with his weapon. So fun.

Earthspark Nightshade — the tall lanky robot becomes a short squat owl. The owl belly is not great, but it’s so much fun positioning the wings. I don’t go for articulation as much as most folks, but the wings are great. And I like that so many parts are used in both modes rather than just being hidden. They’re a fun toy.

Thundertron — he’s a pirate! With a peg leg! And a beard! And a spot for a parakeet stolen from Beachcomber to rest on his shoulder like a parrot! Beast mode is not 100% convincing, but robot beasts are more like battle modes, so I can cut him some slack. The toy is an improvement over the TF:Prime toy, but that’s a low bar. And there’s a lot of white plastic.

Nova Prime — speaking of white plastic… The Siege Cybertron Optimus Prime mold never looked better, and this is one we might just have to enjoy while it lasts. The wings are great.

Needlenose — the mold is great. The deco is accurate, but looks like a background generic from Marvel comics. Gray, purple arms, blue legs, few color details. With his targetmasters in hand, the purple one just makes him look like one arm is too long. A poorly drawn background generic from Marvel comics.

Animated Prowl — I keep forgetting this toy exists, then seeing it, playing with it, and being captivated until I forget he exists. I don’t know. I just don’t know.

Gamer Edition Optimus Prime -- he's a larger, more fidget friendly take on the WFC design, with visible fists in vehicle mode, an arm fall off gimmick, and a rifle that cannot be used "normally" by just holding it in the hand.. And a great ax. And he really is very fidget friendly -- he's a joy to transform. There's a lot to like about this toy, but a lot to dislike as well..

Frankentron — the Siege Impactor mold is a really good mold with a really boring deco that looks like a generic Marvel comics character. A Needlenose, if you will, completely devoid of any visual character. Francois here has had nearly every surface altered and then covered in several layers of paint. He’s gorgeous. And ridiculous.

I can’t quite believe that a Decepticon would be so enamored of Earth culture to integrate Frankenstein motifs into his body. That seems like an Autobot thing.

Humble Origins Orion Pax — an Orion Pax who is wildly inauthentic to his source, but who looks like someone saw Rodimus Prime and Hot Rod, and then extrapolated backwards from Optimus Prime. He’s no data clerk or dock worker. I love him. He does step on the toes of the Hot Shot done with this mold though, in a way that I feel like I need to take sides.

Of them all, I think it’s going to be Nightshade that hangs around longest. It feels weird to pick something from the kids' line. But the best lumps of plastic this year have the least character, and character is a key part of the toy as much as the lump of plastic. It’s a trade off.

So, Nightshade is Toy Of The Year, but they’re not a clear winner.

Frankentron is the runner up, and he seems even more implausible. I want my Decepticons to take themselves seriously. He definitely wins “Best Adaptation Of An Existing Mold.”

Maybe I’m missing something great, or will fall in love with Legacy Armada Megatron or Senator Ratbat. Or maybe something is missing from the toys and this year is just meh.

And there are a few obvious candidates for next year’s “Best Adaptation” if Hasbro chooses to do something with the great molds that have overly bland decos. We might get a predator from Needlenose, and I would love a BM Colorscheme Primal (the smoothness of the mechanical parts just suggests that to me, even if the shape doesn’t)

BONUS RANT
Holy shit did Hasbro fuck up ROTB toys.

There were three Voyager Scale Rhinoxes out simultaneously (studio, core, smash-change) that looked nigh identical, in similar trade dress. Three Primals (a nontransforming model kit was everywhere, plus the mainline and studio that may or may not have been out) God only knows how many Optimus Primes.

I know the movie was delayed, so they delayed the mainline, but they should have delayed the Studio Series as well, and just did a few filler waves of “best of” Studio Series and redecos.

Or, if the mainline toys weren’t already made and sitting on a dock, take some liberties with the colors to give them a bit more life and distinguish them better. The Movieverse Dinobots got fun colors, why not make the mainline ROTB toys have color schemes that suggest the BW characters?

Aside to rant: I could see trying to do something like that with the cartoon toyline. Kids toys in the animation style, and then a collectors line more G1-styled representing the characters as they “really” look.

Hasbro's hot streak is definitely over, and 2023 was underwhelming in the extreme, IMHO.

Hound (G1 Retro) - gets points for being the first reissue in NA, and for his stunning deco. Apparently he was so popular that Walmart over-ordered him (and Hot Rod), and had to put some on sale for $9.99 during the holiday season, which is bonkers (it's back to near MSRP now). Limitations of the Diaclone era aside, this is a must-have.

Metalhawk (Legacy) - great to finally have this character represented properly in Generations. On the plus side, he's a remold of a great base mold (Cyclonus). On the Con side of the equation, he feels less premium, with looser joints, and weapons that don't quite fit.

Bludgeon (Legacy) - so close, and yet so far. Super poseable, great articulation and accessories, but as a remold of Tarn, he couldn't be farther from his G1 samurai roots, and his transformation into a nothing pile of shapes, while better than Skullgrin, is nothing like his original tank form. Such a missed opportunity.

Drumroll:

Laser Optimus Prime (Evolution reissue) - he's my pick for best toy of 2023, even though he's technically a reissue (all of my choices above are remolds/recolors/reissues, which says something).

An outstanding toy that looks great in both modes. Suffers from comparison with the original G2, but I never owned that one, so this is a fresh new take for me. Plus, the trailer/base has enough ports to handle any combination of Weaponizers to create an intimidating battle platform. Cheap stickers from eBay add detail to the trailer and the bot eyes - not great that we need aftermarket accessories, but that's where we are these days.

Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats wrote:

> BONUS RANT
> Holy shit did Hasbro fuck up ROTB toys.

The whole point of the movie was to sell toys. And they missed the point entirely.

The movie didn't showcase the toys. We didn't see the Maximals maximizing. Or talking, or having personalities. The TF's barely transform. Unicron appears, and doesn't transform. As a toy commercial, the film was a flop. MTMTE and TFTM told moving stories and sold toys. Has Hasbro learned nothing in the intervening decades?

To make it worse, they didn't even make the toys available for sale. The breakout star Mirage, voiced by popular celeb Pete Davidson? Nowhere to be found. Prime and Primal, the two biggest faces of the movie? Scalper bait.

It's like they're trying to kill the franchise.

On Monday, January 1, 2024 at 8:10:09 PM UTC-7, CodigoPostal wrote:

> The whole point of the movie was to sell toys. And they missed the point entirely.

Well, to be fair, they've only been making live-action Transformers films for 16 years now. I'm sure they'll get it right eventually.

Zob...

On Monday, January 1, 2024 at 2:11:53 PM UTC-7, Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats wrote:

> Some standout toys were Waspinator, Springer, and Sandstorm from Generations, and Ripclaw, Lazerback, Optimus Prime, Wheeljack and Bumblebee from Beast Hunters. All of these are either on permanent display, or in the boxes of frequently displayed toys.

2013 Waspinator still remains the pinnacle of excellence. He's such a great toy, in a way that the newer Kingdom toy utterly fails to be.

> 2003 was an utterly baffling year that had almost no new molds. It’s shocking. There’s the Powerlinx portion of Armada, the first year of Universe 1.0, and then the first wave or so of Energon (which also had a lot of redecos).

I remember buying a lot of Playskool Go-Bots that year because I was so utterly disinterested in the mainline product. But probably the best thing about that year was G1 reissues, and the inception of the Alternators toy line. What a welcome breath of fresh air that was.

That was the year they threw Beast Wars redecos into the Armada toy line because they were totally unprepared for how well it was selling. Which I guess is both a good thing and a huge misstep. But, you're right about the bizarre lack of new product. In retrospect, that would never fly in today's market.

> Deathsaurus — he’s a great toy, but he’s large enough to be a chore rather than a fidget toy. The little boat micromaster is kind of amazing though.

I opened the toy to play with the Micromasters. I know so little about Deathsaurus as a character that I don't deserve to own him. I can't compare him to the G1 release, I can't compare him to his appearance in the cartoon, I can't speak towards how good of an update he is. To me, he's just a big robotic space chicken. I feel like such an impostor.

> Needlenose — the mold is great. The deco is accurate, but looks like a background generic from Marvel comics. Gray, purple arms, blue legs, few color details. With his targetmasters in hand, the purple one just makes him look like one arm is too long. A poorly drawn background generic from Marvel comics.

He's not an important character by any stretch of the imagination, but the toy is a solid home run. Such a successful update. And I think he's going to end up getting used again as Windsweeper, probably (the weird tail fin seems designed for it, at least).
> Maybe I’m missing something great, or will fall in love with Legacy Armada Megatron or Senator Ratbat. Or maybe something is missing from the toys and this year is just meh.

I'm going to go on record in saying that I think toy lines perform the strongest when the line-up consists of characters people love. Star Wars began faltering when Disney took over and they started churning out toys of characters who have existed for five minutes, instead of the beloved franchise characters that people have loved for 40 years, with a rich history and litany of adventures. They used to be a juggernaut that dominated the action figure aisle, and now they have this tiny token presence, and most of that is Baby Yoda.

I think the same thing is happening with Transformers. There's a proven market demand for G1. It sells like crazy. Any time Hasbro puts up a wave of new toys for pre-order, it's consistently the G1 characters who sell out first. Yes, the toy brand has a rich history and in some ways it makes sense to celebrate that. But, in some ways diversifying just means they're going "here are a bunch of characters people have loved for decades, and also some other guys." I cannot think for a second that there was a fandom demand for a new version of Chase the Rescue-Bot or Tasmania Kid. That's so utterly out of left field.

And the thing about hugely popular characters is that it kind of radiates outwards even to characters who are less important. Greedo's not an important Star Wars character, but he interacted with Han Solo in a meaningful and memorable way, so he kind of becomes important by proxy. He's popular-adjacent. Same with the bounty hunters. IG-88 and Zuckuss and Bossk and 4-LOM and Dengar didn't even have dialogue in the movie, for crying out loud, but collectors love all those bounty hunters because they were the guys who were sent to capture Han Solo, who is important.

So, to bring this back 'round to Transformers, I think even the less memorable G1 characters are more desirable because they help to populate that world and fill out an existing collection. I would say many more people would cite Starscream as a favorite character than people who love Dirge or Thrust or Ramjet, but a shelf full of six seekers is certainly more fun and impressive than just one. They're all unimportant as characters, but they become important as part of a collection. (Just look at how much money Thrust was going for shortly after his limited Target release—upwards of $100 or more.) We're at a point right now where people are absolutely salivating for Gears and Sureshot, because Sureshot will complete the 1987 Autobot Targetmaster trio, and Gears gets us one step closer to a complete Mini Autobots collection *and* a complete set of 1984 cast members. After he comes out, people will inevitably start talking about Windcharger, a nobody character who didn't even get dialogue in the G1 cartoon pilot. But, he becomes important by proxy. He's popular-adjacent.

You can't say that about a lot of the 2023 offering, or the planned 2024 offering, for that matter. What am I going to do with a Core-class version of Energon Megatron? I can't add that to an existing collection. What am I supposed to do with a tiny version of Beast Machines Cheetor? Put it with my McDonald's toys? Yes, I'm cherry-picking a little bit, but my point is that the diversification seems wrong-headed to me. They're going to sell fewer toys, during a time when toys are getting more expensive and a lot of people are already cutting back on collecting.

> Holy shit did Hasbro fuck up ROTB toys.

No argument here. I kept waiting for the "real" toy line to begin, and now it's 2024.

Zob (apparently it's hard to get toys to come out at the same time a movie is in theaters for some reason)

Zobovor wrote:

> I'm going to go on record in saying that I think toy lines perform the strongest when the line-up consists of characters people love.

Absolutely right. Look at the insane prices Hasbro asks for reissued/reversioned 3.75" G.I. Joe figures/vehicles, and compare them to the military playsets at Walmart/Sam's, where for practically nothing, you can get multiple vehicles, playsets, and figures together. Fans will pay because of their attachment to the characters, not because they love military themed toys.

We buy TFs because the characters meant something to us, and still do. The puzzle aspect, the articulation, all of that, is subordinate to having a tangible representation of something we enjoy or love.

Now that Hasbro has delivered close-to-perfect CHUG versions of our favorites, and given us multiple options with MP, Core, or Retro, what's left? How many of us need to keep buying the same character again and again?

On Tuesday, January 2, 2024 at 4:35:13 AM UTC-8, Zobovor wrote:
> On Monday, January 1, 2024 at 2:11:53 PM UTC-7, Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats wrote:
>
> That was the year they threw Beast Wars redecos into the Armada toy line because they were totally unprepared for how well it was selling. Which I guess is both a good thing and a huge misstep. But, you're right about the bizarre lack of new product. In retrospect, that would never fly in today's market.

Given the way the chrome aged, I wish they had shoved more of the Transmetals into the toyline and a few Transmetal 2s as well.

And with the way that some toys just vanish from the stores instantly, and are never available again, I kind of wish Hasbro would try adding in a wave of "best of" packaging refreshes into each line, with very minor redecos to keep them fresh and to annoy completists.

They've done a few repackages for toys that were barely available recently, but since distribution has been so bad and Hasbro doesn't seem to be adapting to how toys are sold these days, having another bite at the apple would be good.

> > Deathsaurus — he’s a great toy, but he’s large enough to be a chore rather than a fidget toy. The little boat micromaster is kind of amazing though.
> I opened the toy to play with the Micromasters. I know so little about Deathsaurus as a character that I don't deserve to own him. I can't compare him to the G1 release, I can't compare him to his appearance in the cartoon, I can't speak towards how good of an update he is. To me, he's just a big robotic space chicken. I feel like such an impostor.

I like him because the mold and deco really show a personality. I don't know the character that well, and I know he is in IDW, but he's really nice looking.

Also, I just assume he is argumentative, can't spell, and has the personality of Deathy. Is that bad?

> > Needlenose — the mold is great. The deco is accurate, but looks like a background generic from Marvel comics. Gray, purple arms, blue legs, few color details. With his targetmasters in hand, the purple one just makes him look like one arm is too long. A poorly drawn background generic from Marvel comics.
> He's not an important character by any stretch of the imagination, but the toy is a solid home run. Such a successful update. And I think he's going to end up getting used again as Windsweeper, probably (the weird tail fin seems designed for it, at least).

The deco is so boring.

> > Maybe I’m missing something great, or will fall in love with Legacy Armada Megatron or Senator Ratbat. Or maybe something is missing from the toys and this year is just meh.
> I'm going to go on record in saying that I think toy lines perform the strongest when the line-up consists of characters people love. Star Wars began faltering when Disney took over and they started churning out toys of characters who have existed for five minutes, instead of the beloved franchise characters that people have loved for 40 years, with a rich history and litany of adventures. They used to be a juggernaut that dominated the action figure aisle, and now they have this tiny token presence, and most of that is Baby Yoda.

How have they not added a Baby Chewbacca?

Ok, people were buying the 5 minute toys since the beginning. R5-D4 says hello. As do many, many other astromechs.

And if you meant the characters were created five minutes ago rather than appearing for five minutes, I would refer to all the excitement for new characters when the prequels came out... except Jar Jar, the one designed to be likeable in a way that made everyone hate him.

But, they aren't buying the minor characters from the new properties. It's not the 5 minute character that's the problem, it's that the Disney Star Wars isn't "special" -- there's too much of it, and it mostly exists to set up the next thing rather than tell it's own story. A problem that Disney Marvel also has these days.

(That said, I loved Baylan and Shin from the Ahsoka show despite all of that because Ray Stevenson was amazing and Ivanna Sakhno captures "feral disaster bisexual" in a way that would have been offensive if she was canonically bisexual -- what if Sharon Stone wasn't cool and plotting in Basic Instinct, what if the character was just a complete mess of contradictory emotions bubbling at the surface? And they are wandering through this mediocre show that is setting up the next big events, mostly along for the ride because Baylan has his own plans and needed a ride.)

> I think the same thing is happening with Transformers. There's a proven market demand for G1. It sells like crazy. Any time Hasbro puts up a wave of new toys for pre-order, it's consistently the G1 characters who sell out first.

Movieverse toys are also really popular, for reasons that escape me. Popular enough to support a whole line for years and years.

> Yes, the toy brand has a rich history and in some ways it makes sense to celebrate that. But, in some ways diversifying just means they're going "here are a bunch of characters people have loved for decades, and also some other guys." I cannot think for a second that there was a fandom demand for a new version of Chase the Rescue-Bot or Tasmania Kid. That's so utterly out of left field.

They don't short pack toys very often anymore, do they? Except for Cosmos.

I expect that there is a value to having a lot of variety in the stores, that ends up driving more sales than just the most popular figures, but Chase is never going to be as popular as whoever else is in that assortment.

> And the thing about hugely popular characters is that it kind of radiates outwards even to characters who are less important. Greedo's not an important Star Wars character, but he interacted with Han Solo in a meaningful and memorable way, so he kind of becomes important by proxy. He's popular-adjacent. Same with the bounty hunters. IG-88 and Zuckuss and Bossk and 4-LOM and Dengar didn't even have dialogue in the movie, for crying out loud, but collectors love all those bounty hunters because they were the guys who were sent to capture Han Solo, who is important.

The bounty hunters also look great, and unlike every other character. Cantina aliens sold well, and bounty hunters sold well, and Jar Jar didn't. Freaks on the sidelines add to the whole. Freaks front and center are Jar Jar.

> You can't say that about a lot of the 2023 offering, or the planned 2024 offering, for that matter. What am I going to do with a Core-class version of Energon Megatron? I can't add that to an existing collection. What am I supposed to do with a tiny version of Beast Machines Cheetor? Put it with my McDonald's toys?

You would put Cheetor on a leash, and put the other end in the hand of a regular Deluxe. Needlenose has his hands full at the moment, so not him, but maybe Devcon? I think he would be in scale.

More seriously, I think Hasbro could put a lot more focus into the Core class, to give a more budget-friendly, fidget-worthy line for collectors, rather than the current half-dozen new molds a year. And give people a reason to buy a new version of Prowl. Or pull in a new generation of collectors who grew up on Armada and stuff like that, but who can't afford $25 Deluxes and their student loans.

> Yes, I'm cherry-picking a little bit, but my point is that the diversification seems wrong-headed to me. They're going to sell fewer toys, during a time when toys are getting more expensive and a lot of people are already cutting back on collecting.

They are running out of G1 that is relatively doable. Having Studio Series shift to the 86 movie when they began running out of Movieverse just meant that they cannibalized the future of Generations.

They either have to start double-dipping into things they've done recently, or expand into the other franchises.

And Studio Series... I actually think a line of super screen accurate toys would be the right place to do TF:Prime and Animated toys. At least a few to test the waters. And maybe a few toys from whatever the current cartoon is, as there is also an adult following (except for Machima and Netflix, which were designed to have an adult following) -- kid's line built for sturdy, collector line for accuracy.

Unless they can get you to buy another Inferno and a few more G1 Primes, they have to go after people who grew up on other things, and see if they are in a collector phase yet.

Also, there is no line that would be a proper home for skittles colored Bayverse Dinobotz. I think that's a little sad. Or BW homage ROTB toys.

Or taking the Movieverse designs, simplify them enough that they could have been a 90's traditionally animated cartoon (80's version would just be too simple) and then build toys around that (Bumblebee movie has shown that people would love a G1 Optimus with Bayverse Greebles, what about the opposite?).

On Tuesday, January 2, 2024 at 10:55:23 PM UTC-7, Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats wrote:

> Given the way the chrome aged, I wish they had shoved more of the Transmetals into the toyline and a few Transmetal 2s as well.

I'm still going to say they did something wrong with the original Transmetals, because that stuff isn't supposed to flake off like that. And, as I've said before, when I was a kid I had shiny C-3PO action figures that I would take to the into the bathtub with me, and they never developed robot dandruff. I had G1 toys I played with on the playground, and while the chrome would wear down, it never just flaked off. And yet, as an adult, my Transmetals fell apart just from casual handling. That's a manufacturing flaw.
> And with the way that some toys just vanish from the stores instantly, and are never available again, I kind of wish Hasbro would try adding in a wave of "best of" packaging refreshes into each line, with very minor redecos to keep them fresh and to annoy completists.

That's kind of what they do whenever we get a package refresh, isn't it? I assume that's a way of getting toys back in stores when there's a demand for them. Well, it's also probably a way to save on costs, because an old toy doesn't cost nearly as much to manufacture as a brand-new toy, but I assume there's at least a little bit of intersect between the two ideas.

I honestly think a package refresh is *better* than Hasbro going, "Well, we need to sell the Legacy Tarantulas mold again, so maybe let's do him in Spider-Man colors or something?" Like, just sell us the actual character in his correct colors instead of trying too hard to justify a doofy redeco, just so you can do another production run.

> Also, I just assume he is argumentative, can't spell, and has the personality of Deathy. Is that bad?

I imagine he hangs out with Tiger Megatron.

> How have they not added a Baby Chewbacca?

I would honestly buy the shit out of a Star Wars Babies toy line. There was a trend in the 1990's where they did baby versions of everything (The Flintstones, Yogi Bear, Looney Tunes, etc.) and I'm honestly surprised they never jumped on it.
> And if you meant the characters were created five minutes ago rather than appearing for five minutes, I would refer to all the excitement for new characters when the prequels came out... except Jar Jar, the one designed to be likeable in a way that made everyone hate him.

Five minutes of screen time for a Star Wars character is actually a lot, considering a lot of aliens show up for only a few seconds.

But, I don't perceive any excitement for these new characters. I see the retail side of things, of course, so perhaps my perspective is different. But the newer characters tend to clog the shelves and pegs, while vintage characters sell out almost instantaneously. The toys from The Force Awakens loitered around clearance bins for literal years after the movie came out.

> But, they aren't buying the minor characters from the new properties. It's not the 5 minute character that's the problem, it's that the Disney Star Wars isn't "special" -- there's too much of it, and it mostly exists to set up the next thing rather than tell it's own story. A problem that Disney Marvel also has these days.

We're venturing far away from discussing the marketing of toy characters, which was mainly what I was addressing. The short version of how I feel is that Disney bought up Star Wars (and Marvel) perceiving it as a cash cow that they could milk until its udders were sore and raw. But, what they've never understood is that when creators pour their heart and soul into a story and fill it with relatable, flawed characters, people come to love those characters. If you love the characters, you want to own merchandise that celebrates those characters. That's the ONLY reason why Star Wars toys have been traditionally so popular, because the movies were wildly fresh and innovative and the characters were hugely charismatic. It's not just because Star Wars has spaceships and laser guns and robots. Those are just aspects of worldbuilding. Buck Rogers also had spaceships and laser guns and robots, but nobody talks about that at all.

The spaceships and laser guns and droids are just a surface-level thing. You could look at Star Wars and conclude that this is what makes it Star Wars, and that's kind of what Disney did. They looked at the surface level and checked off all the boxes of how to correctly make new Star Wars films. Weird aliens? Check. Ligthsabers? Check. Okay, now let's sell some toys.. But it didn't work that way, because the new characters have zero charisma. They have no heart. Nobody cares about what happens to them. You become a fan of a character because you see something in them, often a flaw, that reminds you of yourself, and so they feel human. Even the alien characters or robot characters have human foibles—C-3PO is nervous and worrisome, Chewbacca is loyal to a fault, and Jabba the Hutt is arrogant and greedy.

Transformers, especially the G1 cartoon, had so many diverse personality types that it was almost impossible *not* to find somebody in that eclectic mix that reminded you of yourself. You've got your macho hero types (Cliffjumper, Ironhide) and your nerdy intellectuals (Perceptor, Brainstorm) and your characters with secret fears they try to hide (Swoop, Trailbreaker) and your swaggering loudmouths (Warpath, Hardhead) and your thoughtful introverts (Beachcomber, Skids). There really is something in there for everyone. I've never seen anybody go, "I don't like Transformers because none of the characters are relatable."

> Movieverse toys are also really popular, for reasons that escape me. Popular enough to support a whole line for years and years.

I can only assume that toy line is running on nostalgia fumes. Regarding what I said above, Optimus Prime is a highly charismatic character (though troublingly violent and angry) but almost none of the other movie characters are distinguishable. I am honestly deeply shocked that any of the Michael Bay films created Transformers fans who are now adult collectors. But, somehow it must have happened, because the first film was 17 years ago, and now they're in a phase where they're making all-new toys to commemorate those films. I'm really left scratching my head over that one.

> They don't short pack toys very often anymore, do they? Except for Cosmos..

I would estimate that the frequency that toys are perfectly evenly distributed in a case assortment is maybe around fifty percent. It's not rare, but it doesn't happen the majority of the time, either.

But, the industry is shifting closer to the Japan model, where shipping cases contain one character instead of an assortment. With the Disney Princess dolls, for example, it used to be you'd get a mix, and then I ended up with a ton of Cinderella dolls because that character is almost 75 years old and is not relevant. Now, every character ships by herself, so if Elsa sells out, you get a replacement case of just Elsa without worrying about ordering even more Cinderellas to clog up the works.

Right now, wresting action figures have mixed assortments, but they also have solid case packs with just a single wrestler. I honestly wish they would just do this with every toy line across the board. Solid cases for everybody.

> I expect that there is a value to having a lot of variety in the stores, that ends up driving more sales than just the most popular figures, but Chase is never going to be as popular as whoever else is in that assortment.

I do recognize that there is going to be a subset of consumers who will buy Chase the Rescue-Bot just because somebody's grandmother went into a Walmart, and her grandson said he wanted a Transformer for his birthday. I've always advocated that if there are going to be a certain number of undiscriminating consumers, then they might as well give us an obscure character instead of an all-new character, because at least the obscure character will also be of interest to hardcore collectors. So, I would be a colossal hypocrite if I didn't allow Chase the Rescue-Bot and Tazmania Kid to have their day in the sun. They're no more or less important than my own personal favorite obscure characters like Backstreet or Ruckus or Skram.

> More seriously, I think Hasbro could put a lot more focus into the Core class, to give a more budget-friendly, fidget-worthy line for collectors, rather than the current half-dozen new molds a year. And give people a reason to buy a new version of Prowl. Or pull in a new generation of collectors who grew up on Armada and stuff like that, but who can't afford $25 Deluxes and their student loans.

Right now, third party manufacturers like Newage are producing a fairly large assortment of Core-scale characters, but the engineering and paint deco that goes into them is bananas, so they sell for like thirty dollars each or more. If Hasbro can do the same thing for closer to ten bucks a pop, they would absolutely mop up.

> They are running out of G1 that is relatively doable. Having Studio Series shift to the 86 movie when they began running out of Movieverse just meant that they cannibalized the future of Generations.

I think whether a given toy is marketed as Studio Series or Legacy is largely irrelevant at this stage. Right now, they're artificially limiting themselves to the idea that Studio Series must depict motion picture characters only. But, that's so arbitrary. Toei was an animation studio. But, guess what they did besides The Transformers: the Movie? That's right, they also did cartoon episodes that aired on television. I don't think it would be disingenuous for a toy line called Studio Series to sell us television studio characters. (Characters from Marvel Comics might be a harder sell. But even a comic book publisher is an art studio, yes?)

Zobovor wrote:

> On Tuesday, January 2, 2024 at 10:55:23 PM UTC-7, Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats wrote:

>> Given the way the chrome aged, I wish they had shoved more of the Transmetals into the toyline and a few Transmetal 2s as well.

> I'm still going to say they did something wrong with the original Transmetals, because that stuff isn't supposed to flake off like that. And, as I've said before, when I was a kid I had shiny C-3PO action figures that I would take to the into the bathtub with me, and they never developed robot dandruff. I had G1 toys I played with on the playground, and while the chrome would wear down, it never just flaked off. And yet, as an adult, my Transmetals fell apart just from casual handling. That's a manufacturing flaw.

The problem always seemed to be the color layer flaking and failing, sometimes leaving silver behind, sometimes taking it with it. So, I don't think your C-3PO and R2-D2 are great comparisons. Also, different plastic underneath, so things will expand and contract at different rates.

If a toy lasts five years, I don't think it's a manufacturing flaw the same way that I think the recent yellowing epidemic was. I don't feel the same way about a yellow Tigerhawk as I do about a yellow Artfire or an increasingly beige Kingdom Cyclonus, and I think the Transmetals fall more into the first category rather than the latter.

I mean, they shouldn't do it again, but we also have shiny paint that acts like other paints, and that would be a good compromise.

>> How have they not added a Baby Chewbacca?

> I would honestly buy the shit out of a Star Wars Babies toy line. There was a trend in the 1990's where they did baby versions of everything (The Flintstones, Yogi Bear, Looney Tunes, etc.) and I'm honestly surprised they never jumped on it.

They deliberately didn't have Baby Yoda toys when the Mandalorian came out, because they didn't want to spoil the show. Admirable, I guess, but they could have had a Baby Yoda, Chewbacca, Ewok and Wampa or whatever line offered to retailers ahead of time, and then changed the case assortments.

>> And if you meant the characters were created five minutes ago rather than appearing for five minutes, I would refer to all the excitement for new characters when the prequels came out... except Jar Jar, the one designed to be likeable in a way that made everyone hate him.

> Five minutes of screen time for a Star Wars character is actually a lot, considering a lot of aliens show up for only a few seconds.

> But, I don't perceive any excitement for these new characters. I see the retail side of things, of course, so perhaps my perspective is different. But the newer characters tend to clog the shelves and pegs, while vintage characters sell out almost instantaneously. The toys from The Force Awakens loitered around clearance bins for literal years after the movie came out.

>> But, they aren't buying the minor characters from the new properties. It's not the 5 minute character that's the problem, it's that the Disney Star Wars isn't "special" -- there's too much of it, and it mostly exists to set up the next thing rather than tell it's own story. A problem that Disney Marvel also has these days.

> We're venturing far away from discussing the marketing of toy characters, which was mainly what I was addressing.

Except the shows and movies are very much a commercial for the toys.

I think Hasbro made a huge mistake with putting shows on C-tier streaming services like Paramount+, and treating the show like a profit center rather than advertisements that are a cost.

Disney is in a bit of a different position with Star Wars and Marvel, because it is using them to build its streaming service, but they've also gotten lost in a different way.

> The short version of how I feel is that Disney bought up Star Wars (and Marvel) perceiving it as a cash cow that they could milk until its udders were sore and raw. But, what they've never understood is that when creators pour their heart and soul into a story and fill it with relatable, flawed characters, people come to love those characters. If you love the characters, you want to own merchandise that celebrates those characters. That's the ONLY reason why Star Wars toys have been traditionally so popular, because the movies were wildly fresh and innovative and the characters were hugely charismatic. It's not just because Star Wars has spaceships and laser guns and robots. Those are just aspects of worldbuilding. Buck Rogers also had spaceships and laser guns and robots, but nobody talks about that at all.

The only recent Star Wars stuff that really built interesting characters is also almost certainly the least toy-ready show -- Andor.

Look, I love Luthen, and if I cannot recite his undercity elevator speech word for word, that's more a flaw in me than in the material, but I don't think Old White Guy In Trench Coat is going to make an interesting toy. Even if you were to release a set with the Mousey Guy who wants to stop being an informant, and the open elevator and the walkway... not going to be a lot of fun.

Maybe, maybe Kino Loy with authentic "I can't swim" action features. I'm thinking a great likeness of Andy Serkis in the prison uniform, with a few heavy weights inside so you can play with him in the bathtub.

(Why Disney got the director of Michael Clayton to produce a show about living under creeping fascism and crushing corporate/government alliances set in Star Wars is something of a mystery to me, but I loved it)

That makes me want to check to see if they made a figure for "The Client" from The Mandalorian, as an action figure of Werner Hertzog would be hysterical. Oh, he exists!

> The spaceships and laser guns and droids are just a surface-level thing. You could look at Star Wars and conclude that this is what makes it Star Wars, and that's kind of what Disney did. They looked at the surface level and checked off all the boxes of how to correctly make new Star Wars films. Weird aliens? Check. Ligthsabers? Check. Okay, now let's sell some toys.. But it didn't work that way, because the new characters have zero charisma. They have no heart. Nobody cares about what happens to them. You become a fan of a character because you see something in them, often a flaw, that reminds you of yourself, and so they feel human. Even the alien characters or robot characters have human foibles—C-3PO is nervous and worrisome, Chewbacca is loyal to a fault, and Jabba the Hutt is arrogant and greedy.

But a large part of Jabba's appeal is that he is a giant slug. You need both.

Also Chewbacca has no flaws, don't give me that "loyal to a fault" thing. Ok, he's a deadbeat dad, but most people pretend the Holiday Special didn't happen.

Every new show has a couple of characters with shocking charisma, almost despite the show. Almost always the side characters that no one is trying to make check off boxes. Or in a show that fails in a hundred different ways so they are tarred and feathered just by being near Obiwan or Boba Fett. Or having to make weird out-of-character decisions to set up the next show.

One more thing that Star Wars did before Disney -- leave spaces between the movies, and put a lot of character growth in those spaces. Luke grows as much between ANH and ESB as he does in either of those movies. It left a spot for kids to use their imagination. Countless adventures between ANH and ESB for your toys to explore.

>> Movieverse toys are also really popular, for reasons that escape me. Popular enough to support a whole line for years and years.

> I'm really left scratching my head over that one.

Just figured I would trim that down to capture the entire thing.

>> They don't short pack toys very often anymore, do they? Except for Cosmos..

>> I expect that there is a value to having a lot of variety in the stores, that ends up driving more sales than just the most popular figures, but Chase is never going to be as popular as whoever else is in that assortment.

> I do recognize that there is going to be a subset of consumers who will buy Chase the Rescue-Bot just because somebody's grandmother went into a Walmart, and her grandson said he wanted a Transformer for his birthday.

There are people who are weirdly excited about Chase. Not a lot, but probably more than would be excited by Backstreet, Ruckus of Skram.

>> More seriously, I think Hasbro could put a lot more focus into the Core class, to give a more budget-friendly, fidget-worthy line for collectors, rather than the current half-dozen new molds a year. And give people a reason to buy a new version of Prowl. Or pull in a new generation of collectors who grew up on Armada and stuff like that, but who can't afford $25 Deluxes and their student loans.

> Right now, third party manufacturers like Newage are producing a fairly large assortment of Core-scale characters, but the engineering and paint deco that goes into them is bananas, so they sell for like thirty dollars each or more. If Hasbro can do the same thing for closer to ten bucks a pop, they would absolutely mop up.

The Titans Return Legends were great. I wish Core could just get to that level.

>> They are running out of G1 that is relatively doable. Having Studio Series shift to the 86 movie when they began running out of Movieverse just meant that they cannibalized the future of Generations.

On Thursday, January 4, 2024 at 6:05:15 PM UTC-7, GustavoWombat wrote:

> The problem always seemed to be the color layer flaking and failing, sometimes leaving silver behind, sometimes taking it with it. So, I don't think your C-3PO and R2-D2 are great comparisons.

It's the same technology. They used a colored lacquer to add the gold to C-3PO and the blue panels to R2-D2's head. I have been collecting toys for a long time, and many of them had vac-metal parts (the aforementioned Star Wars droids, Metalhead and Chrome Dome from TMNT, etc.) and I've never had issues with any of them flaking like I did with the Transmetals. There was something specific about those toys that caused that to happen.
> I mean, they shouldn't do it again, but we also have shiny paint that acts like other paints, and that would be a good compromise.

Evan Brooks said at some point that when and if they do new versions of the Transmetals characters, it would be glittery metallic paint rather than vac-metal. Which excites me less, but I understand the reasons for it.

> One more thing that Star Wars did before Disney -- leave spaces between the movies, and put a lot of character growth in those spaces. Luke grows as much between ANH and ESB as he does in either of those movies. It left a spot for kids to use their imagination. Countless adventures between ANH and ESB for your toys to explore.
> I expect that they aren't going to shake things up by changing the lines completely, because they want to protect shelf space or some other retail reasons. But the current direction is kind of just mushy and weird, and I think they need to make a bold change that they are locked out of by that structure.

In some ways, they are locked into a certain pattern just to keep the shareholders happy. They look at last year, saw that it was successful, so the direction they're given is "yeah, just do more of that." They likely won't risk a major shake-up unless the toy line is badly faltering and their only choices are to do something radically different (which might kill the toy line) or let it languish (and watch it die a natural death anyway). But, that hasn't been necessary since Beast Wars.

I'm not wholly dissatisfied with their current approach. I manage to find toys to buy and enjoy every year, which has not always historically been the case. It's unrealistic to expect them to cater to me forever, so I accept the shift in their focus. But, it would be nice if they continued to throw me a bone every once in a while. If they still want my money, they should at least make a token effort to keep me happy. I won't completely stop spending money unless they completely stop making things I want.

Zob (predicting Missing Link is either going to be a flash in the pan, or they're going to spend decades systematically recreating every single G1 toy)