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arts / rec.arts.sf.written / A bookend to _The Things They Carried_ (O'Brien)

SubjectAuthor
* A bookend to _The Things They Carried_ (O'Brien)Don
+- Re: A bookend to _The Things They Carried_ (O'Brien)David Duffy
`* Re: Cloistered library serialDon
 +* Re: Cloistered library serialRobert Carnegie
 |`* Re: Cloistered library serialDon
 | `- Re: Cloistered library serialAndrew McDowell
 `- Re: Cloistered library serialDon

1
A bookend to _The Things They Carried_ (O'Brien)

<20231217a@crcomp.net>

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From: g@crcomp.net (Don)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: A bookend to _The Things They Carried_ (O'Brien)
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2023 08:49:11 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Don - Sun, 17 Dec 2023 08:49 UTC

... We didn't carry combs or hairbrushes, shaving equipment,
soap, deodorant, toothpaste, and toothbrushes were used to
clean our weapons and ammo. Smells carried in the jungle,
enabling anyone to zero in on your position - even if they
couldn't see you.
Rice paddy water was full of feces etc. and unsafe to
drink even with iodine - smells as bad as it looks
It was best to smell like the rotting jungle you lived
in and offer up an identical scent. There was nobody to
impress in the bush, and most if not all, could care less.
At times, we were able to smell approaching enemy soldiers
because of their diet of fish, rice and fermented sauce,
and sometimes, the scent of burning weed when they smoked
it.
Returning to the firebase after a month in the jungle
was well received by everyone - except helicopter crews
and those in the firebase; all giving us a wide berth and
staying as far away from us as possible. The stench of
returning warriors was unbearable to those greeting them
at the gate. Many of us laughed because we didn't notice
anything different in the way we smelled, however, we
were quick to note a clean and sterile, soapy smell as
we entered the compound. It's weird but true. ...

<https://cherrieswriter.com/2023/01/21/sir-how-did-you-stay-clean-in-the-war/>

Danke,

--
Don.......My cat's )\._.,--....,'``. https://crcomp.net/reviews.php
telltale tall tail /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,. Walk humbly with thy God.
tells tall tales.. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.' Make 1984 fiction again.

Re: A bookend to _The Things They Carried_ (O'Brien)

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From: davidd02@tpg.com.au (David Duffy)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: A bookend to _The Things They Carried_ (O'Brien)
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2023 05:03:13 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: David Duffy - Wed, 20 Dec 2023 05:03 UTC

Don <g@crcomp.net> wrote:
> It was best to smell like the rotting jungle you lived
> in and offer up an identical scent. There was nobody to
>
The dudes at the Land Warfare Centre (formerly Jungle Warfare Centre)
in Canungra (Queensland Australia) claimed they could smell newbies a
kilometre off, so I have read.

Cheers, David Duffy.

Re: Cloistered library serial

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From: g@crcomp.net (Don)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Cloistered library serial
Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2023 18:32:03 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Don - Mon, 25 Dec 2023 18:32 UTC

Entering the Porter's Lodge, then turning to the left (as an ancestor
advises in "The Garden of Forking Paths"), leads to a literary labyrinth
with a vision of Borges' right side:

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNxzQSheCkc>

Here's more interviews:

<https://shipwrecklibrary.com/borges/borges-interviews/>

"A book is not an isolated being: it is a relationship,
an axis of innumerable relationships." - Borges

Borges preeminently personifies philosophic science fiction. You may find
the proof in the brief essays found at the end of _Labyrinths_.
Here's a sample of some lesser known (to me) authors examined in one
essay entitled "The Theologinians:" Aurelian, John of Pannonia,
Origen, Lucullus, Euphorbus, Migne, Bousset, Harnack, John of
Damascus, Sir Thomas Browne, Erfjord, and Carpocrates. And dozens more
essays packed with similarly obscure (to me) names follow. It reminds
me why philosophy was really not my thing back in school.

Danke,

--
Don.......My cat's )\._.,--....,'``. https://crcomp.net/reviews.php
telltale tall tail /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,. Walk humbly with thy God.
tells tall tales.. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.' Make 1984 fiction again.

Re: Cloistered library serial

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Subject: Re: Cloistered library serial
From: rja.carnegie@excite.com (Robert Carnegie)
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 by: Robert Carnegie - Mon, 25 Dec 2023 19:46 UTC

On Monday 25 December 2023 at 18:32:08 UTC, Don wrote:
> Entering the Porter's Lodge, then turning to the left (as an ancestor
> advises in "The Garden of Forking Paths"), leads to a literary labyrinth
> with a vision of Borges' right side:
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNxzQSheCkc>
>
> Here's more interviews:
>
> <https://shipwrecklibrary.com/borges/borges-interviews/>
>
> "A book is not an isolated being: it is a relationship,
> an axis of innumerable relationships." - Borges
>
> Borges preeminently personifies philosophic science fiction. You may find
> the proof in the brief essays found at the end of _Labyrinths_.
> Here's a sample of some lesser known (to me) authors examined in one
> essay entitled "The Theologinians:" Aurelian, John of Pannonia,
> Origen, Lucullus, Euphorbus, Migne, Bousset, Harnack, John of
> Damascus, Sir Thomas Browne, Erfjord, and Carpocrates. And dozens more
> essays packed with similarly obscure (to me) names follow. It reminds
> me why philosophy was really not my thing back in school.
> Danke,

Referring to
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpocrates>
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Theologians>
"The Theologians" is described as fiction,
although "Carpocrates" seems to be real.
With Borges, is is difficult to know what is real,
that he says, and what is not real. And someone
such as Borges could confuse Wikipedia as well.

I'm reasonably confident that "Theologinians",
even in Borges, should say "Theologians".

Re: Cloistered library serial

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From: g@crcomp.net (Don)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Cloistered library serial
Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2023 06:43:16 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Don - Tue, 26 Dec 2023 06:43 UTC

Robert wrote:
>Don wrote:
>> Entering the Porter's Lodge, then turning to the left (as an ancestor
>> advises in "The Garden of Forking Paths"), leads to a literary labyrinth
>> with a vision of Borges' right side:
>>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNxzQSheCkc>
>>
>> Here's more interviews:
>>
>> <https://shipwrecklibrary.com/borges/borges-interviews/>
>>
>> "A book is not an isolated being: it is a relationship,
>> an axis of innumerable relationships." - Borges
>>
>> Borges preeminently personifies philosophic science fiction. You may find
>> the proof in the brief essays found at the end of _Labyrinths_.
>> Here's a sample of some lesser known (to me) authors examined in one
>> essay entitled "The Theologinians:" Aurelian, John of Pannonia,
>> Origen, Lucullus, Euphorbus, Migne, Bousset, Harnack, John of
>> Damascus, Sir Thomas Browne, Erfjord, and Carpocrates. And dozens more
>> essays packed with similarly obscure (to me) names follow. It reminds
>> me why philosophy was really not my thing back in school.
>> Danke,
>
> Referring to
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpocrates>
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Theologians>
> "The Theologians" is described as fiction,
> although "Carpocrates" seems to be real.
> With Borges, is is difficult to know what is real,
> that he says, and what is not real. And someone
> such as Borges could confuse Wikipedia as well.
>
> I'm reasonably confident that "Theologinians",
> even in Borges, should say "Theologians".

The Mighty "Wiki" Wurlitzer is almost always avoided by me because it
acts as an allergen. YMMV. And, most of the names above apparently are
real people.

BORGES: In "The Theologians" you have two enemies and one of them
sends the other to the stake. And then they find out somehow
they're the same man. But I think "The Warrior and the Captive"
is a better story, no?

BURGIN: I wouldn't say so, no.

BORGES: No? Why?

BURGIN: There's something almost tragic about "The Theologians."
It's a very moving story.

BORGES: Yes, "The Theologians" is more of a tale; the other is
merely the quotation, or the telling, of two parables.

BURGIN: I mean the Theologians are pathetic and yet there's
something noble about them—their earnestness, their self-
importance.

BORGES: Yes, and it's more of a tale. While in the other I
think that the tale is spoiled, by the fact of, well, you
think of the writer as thinking himself clever, no? In taking
two different instances and bringing them together. But
"Story of the Warrior and the Captive" makes for easier reading,
while most people have been utterly baffled and bored by
"The Theologians."

BURGIN: No, I love that story.

BORGES: Well, I love it also, but I'm speaking of my friends,
or more of my friends. They all thought that the whole thing
was quite pointless.

_Jorge Luis Borges: The Last Interview & Other Conversations_

"The Theologians" indeed "utterly baffled and bored" me. Perhaps it
prequalifies me as a potential friend of Borges?

Danke,

--
Don.......My cat's )\._.,--....,'``. https://crcomp.net/reviews.php
telltale tall tail /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,. Walk humbly with thy God.
tells tall tales.. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.' Make 1984 fiction again.

Re: Cloistered library serial

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Subject: Re: Cloistered library serial
From: mcdowell_ag@sky.com (Andrew McDowell)
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 by: Andrew McDowell - Tue, 26 Dec 2023 09:51 UTC

On Tuesday, December 26, 2023 at 6:43:34 AM UTC, Don wrote:
> Robert wrote:
> >Don wrote:
> >> Entering the Porter's Lodge, then turning to the left (as an ancestor
> >> advises in "The Garden of Forking Paths"), leads to a literary labyrinth
> >> with a vision of Borges' right side:
> >>
> >> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNxzQSheCkc>
> >>
> >> Here's more interviews:
> >>
> >> <https://shipwrecklibrary.com/borges/borges-interviews/>
> >>
> >> "A book is not an isolated being: it is a relationship,
> >> an axis of innumerable relationships." - Borges
> >>
> >> Borges preeminently personifies philosophic science fiction. You may find
> >> the proof in the brief essays found at the end of _Labyrinths_.
> >> Here's a sample of some lesser known (to me) authors examined in one
> >> essay entitled "The Theologinians:" Aurelian, John of Pannonia,
> >> Origen, Lucullus, Euphorbus, Migne, Bousset, Harnack, John of
> >> Damascus, Sir Thomas Browne, Erfjord, and Carpocrates. And dozens more
> >> essays packed with similarly obscure (to me) names follow. It reminds
> >> me why philosophy was really not my thing back in school.
> >> Danke,
> >
> > Referring to
> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpocrates>
> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Theologians>
> > "The Theologians" is described as fiction,
> > although "Carpocrates" seems to be real.
> > With Borges, is is difficult to know what is real,
> > that he says, and what is not real. And someone
> > such as Borges could confuse Wikipedia as well.
> >
> > I'm reasonably confident that "Theologinians",
> > even in Borges, should say "Theologians".
> The Mighty "Wiki" Wurlitzer is almost always avoided by me because it
> acts as an allergen. YMMV. And, most of the names above apparently are
> real people.
>
> BORGES: In "The Theologians" you have two enemies and one of them
> sends the other to the stake. And then they find out somehow
> they're the same man. But I think "The Warrior and the Captive"
> is a better story, no?
>
> BURGIN: I wouldn't say so, no.
>
> BORGES: No? Why?
>
> BURGIN: There's something almost tragic about "The Theologians."
> It's a very moving story.
>
> BORGES: Yes, "The Theologians" is more of a tale; the other is
> merely the quotation, or the telling, of two parables.
>
> BURGIN: I mean the Theologians are pathetic and yet there's
> something noble about them—their earnestness, their self-
> importance.
>
> BORGES: Yes, and it's more of a tale. While in the other I
> think that the tale is spoiled, by the fact of, well, you
> think of the writer as thinking himself clever, no? In taking
> two different instances and bringing them together. But
> "Story of the Warrior and the Captive" makes for easier reading,
> while most people have been utterly baffled and bored by
> "The Theologians."
>
> BURGIN: No, I love that story.
>
> BORGES: Well, I love it also, but I'm speaking of my friends,
> or more of my friends. They all thought that the whole thing
> was quite pointless.
>
> _Jorge Luis Borges: The Last Interview & Other Conversations_
>
> "The Theologians" indeed "utterly baffled and bored" me. Perhaps it
> prequalifies me as a potential friend of Borges?
> Danke,
>
> --
> Don.......My cat's )\._.,--....,'``. https://crcomp.net/reviews.php
> telltale tall tail /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,. Walk humbly with thy God.
> tells tall tales.. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.' Make 1984 fiction again.
A supposedly real life story that shows a different attitude to Theology. A local preacher was asked to preach at a time when his audience would be mostly made up of dignitaries from a conference of academic and other very highly qualified theologians. He was asked if he was nervous about this. "Not at all," he said. "My responsibility is to educate people so that they have a saving faith. I get nervous about failing to communicate this properly. There is zero chance that any of _these_ people will be misled by anything I could possibly say".

Re: Cloistered library serial

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From: g@crcomp.net (Don)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Cloistered library serial
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2023 18:40:27 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Don - Sat, 30 Dec 2023 18:40 UTC

Yet another turn to the left leads to a labyrinthic library.

"It's a good distance from here, but if you take the first
road on the left and then left again at each turning, you
can't go wrong."
I tossed them a coin (my last), made my way down some
stone steps, and set off along the lonely road. It descended
slowly, its surface unmade. Branches met overhead, and a low
full moon seemed to keep company with me.
For a moment, I thought that Richard Madden had somehow
fathomed my desperate plan, but soon I realized this was
impossible. It occurred to me that the advice to keep taking
a left turn was the normal way to reach the central point of
certain mazes. I know something about labyrinths. Not for
nothing am I the great-grandson of the famous Ts'ui Pên, who
was governor of Yunnan and who renounced office in order to
write a novel that teemed with more characters than the Hung
Lu Meng and to construct a maze in which all mankind might
lose its way.

"The Garden of Forking Paths"

The library consists of limitless hexagonal galleries, full of books.

First, ... To appreciate the distance between the divine and
the human, all we need do is compare the crude, spidery symbols
my fallible hand is scrawling on the endpapers of this book
with the organic letters on the inside, which are precise, fine,
deep black, and perfectly symmetrical.
Second, that the number of these symbols is twenty-five.
The discovery of this fact three hundred years ago led to the
formulation of a general theory of the Library and to a
satisfactory solution of a problem which, until then, no
hypothesis had addressed-namely, the formless and random nature
of almost all books. One, once seen by my father in a hexagon of
Circuit 1594, consisted of a relentless repetition, from
beginning to end, of the letters M C V. ...
four hundred and ten pages of unbroken lines of M C V can be
part of no language, however primitive or however much of a
dialect it may be. Some people suggested that each letter might
have a bearing on the one after it and that the meaning of M C V
in the third line of page 71 was not the same as that of these
letters in another position on another page, but this embryonic
theory came to nothing. Others believed that these letter
sequences were codes, a hypothesis that has been widely accepted,
although not in the sense intended by its originators.

"The Library of Babel"

In another, smaller library, the permutations of four letters hold
life's secrets.

Imagine owning a library of 22,000 books. We don't mean just any
books; this collection contains unimaginable knowledge, such as
solutions to diseases that have plagued humankind for centuries,
basic building instructions for just about every creature on
earth, and even the explanation of how thoughts are formed inside
your brain. This fabulous library has only one problem - it's
written in a mysterious language, a code made up of only four
letters that are repeated in arcane patterns. The very secrets of
life on earth have been contained within this library since the
dawn of time, but no one could read the books - until now.
The 22,000 books are the genes that carry the information
that make you. The library storing these books is the human genome.
Sequencing genomes (that is, all the DNA in one set of chromosomes
of an organism), both human genomes and those of other organisms,
means discovering the order of the four bases (C, G, A, and T)
that make up DNA.

_Genetics For Dummies_

Danke,

--
Don.......My cat's )\._.,--....,'``. https://crcomp.net/reviews.php
telltale tall tail /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,. Walk humbly with thy God.
tells tall tales.. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.' Make 1984 fiction again.


arts / rec.arts.sf.written / A bookend to _The Things They Carried_ (O'Brien)

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