"Please help to find a book about alien AI disabling violence in humans"
https://www.reddit.com/r/printSF/comments/1al2fg5/please_help_to_find_a_book_about_alien_ai/

"Hello fellow redditors,"

"A long time ago, in a country far, far away I started reading a book...
and didn't have an opportunity to finish it."

"Now, for the life of me, can't remember neither the title nor the author."

"Premise: alien AI orbits Earth and disables the ability to carryout
violent acts in human population. Thoughts about violence are still
possible, but acts of violence are "disabled". The story followed
several protagonists."

" Suggestions with stories following similar (or same) premise are
also welcome!"

I am fairly certain that it is not "Childhood's End".

Lynn

In article <uq0q5c$1j61f$1@dont-email.me>,
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>"Please help to find a book about alien AI disabling violence in humans"
>
>https://www.reddit.com/r/printSF/comments/1al2fg5/please_help_to_find_a_book_about_alien_ai/
>
>"Hello fellow redditors,"
>
>"A long time ago, in a country far, far away I started reading a book...
>and didn't have an opportunity to finish it."
>
>"Now, for the life of me, can't remember neither the title nor the author."
>
>"Premise: alien AI orbits Earth and disables the ability to carryout
>violent acts in human population. Thoughts about violence are still
>possible, but acts of violence are "disabled". The story followed
>several protagonists."
>
>" Suggestions with stories following similar (or same) premise are
>also welcome!"
>
>I am fairly certain that it is not "Childhood's End".
>
>Lynn

There are some elements of Niven's "Cloak of Anarchy" albeit probably
not enough. Also some elements of van Vogt's "The Harmonizer".
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

On 2024-02-07, Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

> "Premise: alien AI orbits Earth and disables the ability to carryout
> violent acts in human population. Thoughts about violence are still
> possible, but acts of violence are "disabled".

Intriguing. What exactly counts as violence? Can you build a death
trap for your unwary neighbor to perish in? Also, how do you enforce
laws without violence? What's your mechanism to sanction nonviolent
crime? What percentage of humanity dies in this benevolent societal
transformation?

--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de

On 8/02/24 10:44, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
> On 2024-02-07, Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> "Premise: alien AI orbits Earth and disables the ability to carryout
>> violent acts in human population. Thoughts about violence are still
>> possible, but acts of violence are "disabled".
>
> Intriguing. What exactly counts as violence? Can you build a death
> trap for your unwary neighbor to perish in?

I think you will have to wait and try it for yourself after the alien AI
arrives.

Also, how do you enforce
> laws without violence? What's your mechanism to sanction nonviolent
> crime?

Ostracisation? Yes, certainly intriguing.

On 07/02/2024 20:45, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> "Please help to find a book about alien AI disabling violence in humans"
>
> https://www.reddit.com/r/printSF/comments/1al2fg5/please_help_to_find_a_book_about_alien_ai/
>
> "Hello fellow redditors,"
>
> "A long time ago, in a country far, far away I started reading a book...
> and didn't have an opportunity to finish it."
>
> "Now, for the life of me, can't remember neither the title nor the author."
>
> "Premise: alien AI orbits Earth and disables the ability to carryout
> violent acts in human population. Thoughts about violence are still
> possible, but acts of violence are "disabled". The story followed
> several protagonists."
>
> "    Suggestions with stories following similar (or same) premise are
> also welcome!"
>
> I am fairly certain that it is not "Childhood's End".

A different mechanism and a different place -
a different story: _Perry's Planet_, a Star Trek
novel by Jack C. Haldeman II.

I suppose the television episode "This Side
of Paradise" has some equivalence - it's the
one with the happiness flowers.
And "Return of the Archons", on a planet where
mild-mannered but troubled people occasionally
turn extremely wild and riot. And I suppose
"The Apple", "errand of Mercy", maybe
"A Private Little War".

Slightly to spoil, Harry Harrison's
"I Always Do What Teddy Says".

Also consider - er - _The Cosmic Rape_,
by Theodore Sturgeon. You may prefer
it as _To Marry Medusa_ - recorded as
shorter. Not an AI but an interstellar
telepathic hive-mind which wants to
assimilate Earth. Multiple human
characters' viewpoints appear.

Violence as referred to in the title
is intended, at least.

On 2024-02-08, Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:

>>> "Premise: alien AI orbits Earth and disables the ability to carryout
>>> violent acts in human population.
>>
>> Intriguing. What exactly counts as violence? Can you build a death
>> trap for your unwary neighbor to perish in?
>
> I think you will have to wait and try it for yourself after the alien AI
> arrives.

The point is, there is "I split my neighbor's skull with a hatchet"
(a violent act), then there is "my neighbor injured himself with a
chainsaw and I stood idly by and watched him bleed to death" (not
a violent act), and a lot of area in between where you allow or
facilitate bodily harm without engaging in a violent act yourself.

It's very unclear what forms of coercion count as "violent".

> Also, how do you enforce
>> laws without violence? What's your mechanism to sanction nonviolent
>> crime?
>
> Ostracisation? Yes, certainly intriguing.

Yes, I expect various degrees of shunning to become the dominant
mechanism, up to effective death sentences.

I hope somebody can identify the book and we can learn whether the
author thought this idea through.

--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de

On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 1:45:37 PM UTC-7, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> "Please help to find a book about alien AI disabling violence in humans"
>
> https://www.reddit.com/r/printSF/comments/1al2fg5/please_help_to_find_a_book_about_alien_ai/
>
> "Hello fellow redditors,"
>
> "A long time ago, in a country far, far away I started reading a book...
> and didn't have an opportunity to finish it."
>
> "Now, for the life of me, can't remember neither the title nor the author.."
>
> "Premise: alien AI orbits Earth and disables the ability to carryout
> violent acts in human population. Thoughts about violence are still
> possible, but acts of violence are "disabled". The story followed
> several protagonists."
>
> " Suggestions with stories following similar (or same) premise are
> also welcome!"
>
> I am fairly certain that it is not "Childhood's End".

Also not the right answer, but it does include a way to prevent people
from committing violence: "Under Hill", by Gene Wolfe.

https://www.infinitematrix.net/stories/shorts/under_hill2.html

His take on it is a bit unusual.

--
Jerry Friedman

On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 3:30:09 PM UTC-7, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
> On 2024-02-07, Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > "Premise: alien AI orbits Earth and disables the ability to carryout
> > violent acts in human population. Thoughts about violence are still
> > possible, but acts of violence are "disabled".
> Intriguing. What exactly counts as violence? Can you build a death
> trap for your unwary neighbor to perish in? Also, how do you enforce
> laws without violence? What's your mechanism to sanction nonviolent
> crime?
....

People could be punished with fines, and in a world where most money
is electronic (if you can imagine that), physical damage or threats
wouldn't be needed. Fines are especially appropriate since a lot of
nonviolent crime is financial.

--
Jerry Friedman

On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 8:30:09 AM UTC-7, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
> On 2024-02-08, Titus G <no...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
> >>> "Premise: alien AI orbits Earth and disables the ability to carryout
> >>> violent acts in human population.
> >>
> >> Intriguing. What exactly counts as violence? Can you build a death
> >> trap for your unwary neighbor to perish in?
> >
> > I think you will have to wait and try it for yourself after the alien AI
> > arrives.
> The point is, there is "I split my neighbor's skull with a hatchet"
> (a violent act), then there is "my neighbor injured himself with a
> chainsaw and I stood idly by and watched him bleed to death" (not
> a violent act), and a lot of area in between where you allow or
> facilitate bodily harm without engaging in a violent act yourself.
>
> It's very unclear what forms of coercion count as "violent".
>
> > Also, how do you enforce
> >> laws without violence? What's your mechanism to sanction nonviolent
> >> crime?
> >
> > Ostracisation? Yes, certainly intriguing.
>
> Yes, I expect various degrees of shunning to become the dominant
> mechanism, up to effective death sentences.
>
> I hope somebody can identify the book and we can learn whether the
> author thought this idea through.

The first answer in the reddit thread seems to fit the description exactly.
/Rejoice, a Knife to the Heart/ by Steven Erikson.

--
Jerry Friedman

Jerry Friedman <jerry.friedman99@gmail.com> wrote:
>People could be punished with fines, and in a world where most money
>is electronic (if you can imagine that), physical damage or threats
>wouldn't be needed. Fines are especially appropriate since a lot of
>nonviolent crime is financial.

So is a lot, perhaps even most, of violent crime. People are very
big on money.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On 2/7/2024 2:45 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> "Please help to find a book about alien AI disabling violence in humans"
>
> https://www.reddit.com/r/printSF/comments/1al2fg5/please_help_to_find_a_book_about_alien_ai/
>
> "Hello fellow redditors,"
>
> "A long time ago, in a country far, far away I started reading a book...
> and didn't have an opportunity to finish it."
>
> "Now, for the life of me, can't remember neither the title nor the author."
>
> "Premise: alien AI orbits Earth and disables the ability to carryout
> violent acts in human population. Thoughts about violence are still
> possible, but acts of violence are "disabled". The story followed
> several protagonists."
>
> "    Suggestions with stories following similar (or same) premise are
> also welcome!"
>
> I am fairly certain that it is not "Childhood's End".
>
> Lynn

"Rejoice, A Knife to the Heart. Steven Erikson."

"I believe this is the right answer. There are several acts of violence
in the book shown to be stopped, mid violence. ie, hot oil tossed at an
abusive husband splatters harmlessly in the air directly in front of him."

"Edit: the AI also is in Earths’ orbit, and the story has several
protagonists. A female scifi writer is the lead protagonist and goes to
space before coming back to hover over the UN in a custom made Klingon
warship to make a point."

Lynn

On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 11:10:04 AM UTC-7, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 1:45:37 PM UTC-7, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> > "Please help to find a book about alien AI disabling violence in humans"
> >
> > https://www.reddit.com/r/printSF/comments/1al2fg5/please_help_to_find_a_book_about_alien_ai/
> >
> > "Hello fellow redditors,"
> >
> > "A long time ago, in a country far, far away I started reading a book....
> > and didn't have an opportunity to finish it."
> >
> > "Now, for the life of me, can't remember neither the title nor the author."
> >
> > "Premise: alien AI orbits Earth and disables the ability to carryout
> > violent acts in human population. Thoughts about violence are still
> > possible, but acts of violence are "disabled". The story followed
> > several protagonists."
> >
> > " Suggestions with stories following similar (or same) premise are
> > also welcome!"
> >
> > I am fairly certain that it is not "Childhood's End".
>
> Also not the right answer, but it does include a way to prevent people
> from committing violence: "Under Hill", by Gene Wolfe.
>
> https://www.infinitematrix.net/stories/shorts/under_hill2.html
....

Actually, part 1 of 2 is just

https://www.infinitematrix.net/stories/shorts/under_hill.html

--
Jerry Friedman

Lynn McGuire wrote:
> "Please help to find a book about alien AI disabling violence in humans"
>
> https://www.reddit.com/r/printSF/comments/1al2fg5/please_help_to_find_a_book_about_alien_ai/
>
> "Hello fellow redditors,"
>
> "A long time ago, in a country far, far away I started reading a book...
> and didn't have an opportunity to finish it."
>
> "Now, for the life of me, can't remember neither the title nor the author."
>
> "Premise: alien AI orbits Earth and disables the ability to carryout
> violent acts in human population. Thoughts about violence are still
> possible, but acts of violence are "disabled". The story followed
> several protagonists."

Not same, but some elements apply:

Stanislav Lem, Transfer

An expedition to Fomalhaut returns after 127 years of earth-time,
10 years of expedition time (due to relativistic time dilation).

Earth has transformed into a war-less, accident-less society; humans
get their aggression edited out of them right after birth. Side-effect:
they also avoid any risk.

-is

On 2024-02-09, Ignatios Souvatzis <u502sou@bnhb484.de> wrote:

> Not same, but some elements apply:
>
> Stanislav Lem, Transfer

That's the German title. The original one is _Powrót z gwiazd_,
the English one _Return from the Stars_.

--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de

On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 1:47:19 PM UTC-7, Lynn McGuire wrote:

> "Rejoice, A Knife to the Heart. Steven Erikson."
>
> "I believe this is the right answer. There are several acts of violence
> in the book shown to be stopped, mid violence. ie, hot oil tossed at an
> abusive husband splatters harmlessly in the air directly in front of him."
>
> "Edit: the AI also is in Earths’ orbit, and the story has several
> protagonists. A female scifi writer is the lead protagonist and goes to
> space before coming back to hover over the UN in a custom made Klingon
> warship to make a point."

I found a review of the book. The author is a Canadian.

In addition to violence between humans being prevented, exploitation
of the Earth's resources is also prevented by force fields. Apparently, though,
this is a temporary condition: the focus of the book is on the conversation
between the aliens and the sci-fi writer; apparently, the aliens are simply
preventing us from digging ourselves in any deeper while they figure out how
they can help us.

However, preventing the exploitation of the Earth's resources is likely to create
panic, and interfere with our ability to *feed everyone* in the interim. It makes me
inclined to dismiss the book, sight unseen, as about aliens who are more interested
in grandstanding than helping.

John Savard

On Feb 10, 2024, Quadibloc wrote
(in article<9b9ca8d3-6d0e-437c-8b01-56ab1485e86en@googlegroups.com>):

> On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 1:47:19 PM UTC-7, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>
> > "Rejoice, A Knife to the Heart. Steven Erikson."
> >
> > "I believe this is the right answer. There are several acts of violence
> > in the book shown to be stopped, mid violence. ie, hot oil tossed at an
> > abusive husband splatters harmlessly in the air directly in front of him."
> >
> > "Edit: the AI also is in Earths’ orbit, and the story has several
> > protagonists. A female scifi writer is the lead protagonist and goes to
> > space before coming back to hover over the UN in a custom made Klingon
> > warship to make a point."
>
> I found a review of the book. The author is a Canadian.
>
> In addition to violence between humans being prevented, exploitation
> of the Earth's resources is also prevented by force fields. Apparently,
> though,
> this is a temporary condition: the focus of the book is on the conversation
> between the aliens and the sci-fi writer; apparently, the aliens are simply
> preventing us from digging ourselves in any deeper while they figure out how
> they can help us.
>
> However, preventing the exploitation of the Earth's resources is likely to
> create
> panic, and interfere with our ability to *feed everyone* in the interim. It
> makes me
> inclined to dismiss the book, sight unseen, as about aliens who are more
> interested
> in grandstanding than helping.
>
> John Savard

Given certain attitudes in the more extreme green/animal rights fringe, the
fact that preventing the explotation of the Earth’s resources causes mass
starvation would be a plus, as it would get rid of the ‘excess population.
And the prevention of violence would prevent the starving hordes from trying
to do something about it. Win-win.

I suspect that I will not be going out of my way to find this book.

On Friday, February 9, 2024 at 11:13:19 PM UTC-7, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 1:47:19 PM UTC-7, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>
> > "Rejoice, A Knife to the Heart. Steven Erikson."
> >
> > "I believe this is the right answer. There are several acts of violence
> > in the book shown to be stopped, mid violence. ie, hot oil tossed at an
> > abusive husband splatters harmlessly in the air directly in front of him."
> >
> > "Edit: the AI also is in Earths’ orbit, and the story has several
> > protagonists. A female scifi writer is the lead protagonist and goes to
> > space before coming back to hover over the UN in a custom made Klingon
> > warship to make a point."
>
> I found a review of the book. The author is a Canadian.

And also the author of /Malazan Book of the Fallen/, which I see has been
mentioned here many times. (I haven't read it.)
> In addition to violence between humans being prevented, exploitation
> of the Earth's resources is also prevented by force fields. Apparently, though,
> this is a temporary condition: the focus of the book is on the conversation
> between the aliens and the sci-fi writer; apparently, the aliens are simply
> preventing us from digging ourselves in any deeper while they figure out how
> they can help us.
>
> However, preventing the exploitation of the Earth's resources is likely to create
> panic, and interfere with our ability to *feed everyone* in the interim. It makes me
> inclined to dismiss the book, sight unseen, as about aliens who are more interested
> in grandstanding than helping.

Another review says the aliens "ban violence and give food and shelter to everyone
on Earth".

https://www.reddit.com/r/printSF/comments/a9ep8v/review_of_rejoice_a_knife_to_the_heart_by_steven/?rdt=36375

The review, as far as I read, doesn't say how they manage any of that.

For me, a book about a human's conversations with powerful aliens who are
interested mostly in grandstanding wouldn't necessarily be less attractive than one
about aliens who are interested in helping.

--
Jerry Friedman

On 11/02/24 04:09, WolfFan wrote:
> On Feb 10, 2024, Quadibloc wrote
> (in article<9b9ca8d3-6d0e-437c-8b01-56ab1485e86en@googlegroups.com>):
>
>> On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 1:47:19 PM UTC-7, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>
>>> "Rejoice, A Knife to the Heart. Steven Erikson."
>>>
>>> "I believe this is the right answer. There are several acts of violence
>>> in the book shown to be stopped, mid violence. ie, hot oil tossed at an
>>> abusive husband splatters harmlessly in the air directly in front of him."
>>>
>>> "Edit: the AI also is in Earths’ orbit, and the story has several
>>> protagonists. A female scifi writer is the lead protagonist and goes to
>>> space before coming back to hover over the UN in a custom made Klingon
>>> warship to make a point."
>>
>> I found a review of the book. The author is a Canadian.
>>
>> In addition to violence between humans being prevented, exploitation
>> of the Earth's resources is also prevented by force fields. Apparently,
>> though,
>> this is a temporary condition: the focus of the book is on the conversation
>> between the aliens and the sci-fi writer; apparently, the aliens are simply
>> preventing us from digging ourselves in any deeper while they figure out how
>> they can help us.
>>
>> However, preventing the exploitation of the Earth's resources is likely to
>> create
>> panic, and interfere with our ability to *feed everyone* in the interim. It
>> makes me
>> inclined to dismiss the book, sight unseen, as about aliens who are more
>> interested
>> in grandstanding than helping.
>>
>> John Savard
>
> Given certain attitudes in the more extreme green/animal rights fringe, the
> fact that preventing the explotation of the Earth’s resources causes mass
> starvation would be a plus, as it would get rid of the ‘excess population.
> And the prevention of violence would prevent the starving hordes from trying
> to do something about it. Win-win.
>
> I suspect that I will not be going out of my way to find this book.
>

I started reading this yesterday but didn't get very far, maybe fifty
pages, before back to the library. I did not enjoy the writing style,
nor the stereotyped plastic people so just browsed through the rest. I
was more interested in the question of how violence would be prevented,
(alien magic), and possible unforeseen consequences, (not mentioned or
glossed over; eg it was impossible to physically harm any animal but
domestic meat production continued.)

On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 3:45:37 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> "Please help to find a book about alien AI disabling violence in humans"
>
> https://www.reddit.com/r/printSF/comments/1al2fg5/please_help_to_find_a_book_about_alien_ai/
>
> "Hello fellow redditors,"
>
> "A long time ago, in a country far, far away I started reading a book...
> and didn't have an opportunity to finish it."
>
> "Now, for the life of me, can't remember neither the title nor the author.."
>
> "Premise: alien AI orbits Earth and disables the ability to carryout
> violent acts in human population. Thoughts about violence are still
> possible, but acts of violence are "disabled". The story followed
> several protagonists."
>
> " Suggestions with stories following similar (or same) premise are
> also welcome!"

A similar story is Damon Knight's "Rule Golden" in which alien tech
makes you feel whatever you do to others.

Knight was not too concerned with scientific plausibility, and when someone points out
to the alien that all predators will go extinct, the alien effectively shrugs. Death by
starvation being, I suppose, preferred.

William Hyde

On 2024-02-08, Jerry Friedman <jerry.friedman99@gmail.com> wrote:

> The first answer in the reddit thread seems to fit the description exactly.
> /Rejoice, a Knife to the Heart/ by Steven Erikson.

"People move freely, with millions of refugees all over the place – so
the aliens supply them with food and cover to. No one hurts anyone, and
there is enough of basic resources for everyone."
https://www.reddit.com/r/printSF/comments/a9ep8v/review_of_rejoice_a_knife_to_the_heart_by_steven/

I see. More alien magic, to blunt the unpleasant consequences of
the premise. That doesn't sound particularly interesting.

--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de