The 2023 Hugo Awards: A Report on Censorship and Exclusion

https://www.patreon.com/posts/98498779

--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

On Wednesday, February 14, 2024 at 7:52:11 PM UTC-7, James Nicoll wrote:
> The 2023 Hugo Awards: A Report on Censorship and Exclusion
>
> https://www.patreon.com/posts/98498779

While I do certainly believe that courage, rather than cowardice,
is indeed part of the answer to the threat posed by tyranny, I
do not advocate noble but foolhardy gestures that could lead
to people needlessly becoming political prisoners.

The answer is not to hold WorldCon in this type of country.

John Savard

On 2/14/2024 9:52 PM, James Nicoll wrote:
> The 2023 Hugo Awards: A Report on Censorship and Exclusion
>
> https://www.patreon.com/posts/98498779

Very informative. I note a few things of particular interest:

McCarty responded on June 5 [2023] at 7:18 pm saying "At the moment, the
best guidance I have is ‘mentions of Hong Kong, Taiwan, Tibet, negatives
of China’. I will try to get better guidance when I have a chance to dig
into this deeper with the Chinese folks on the committee."

And:

In both Diane Lacey’s apology letter and an interview, she said some of
these Chinese works were removed due to "collusion in a Chinese
publication that had published a nominations list, a slate as it were,
and so those ballots were identified and eliminated."

On 15/02/2024 02:52, James Nicoll wrote:
> The 2023 Hugo Awards: A Report on Censorship and Exclusion
>
> https://www.patreon.com/posts/98498779

also, there's some BBC coverage here.
Nearer to the end of a 45 minute radio show.
<https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001w8cd>

And incidentally, celebrity book club
"A Good Read" picked up _The Hitchhiker's
Guide to the Galaxy_, today.
<https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001w73r>

In article <uqlis1$3dm6e$1@dont-email.me>,
Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 15/02/2024 02:52, James Nicoll wrote:
>> The 2023 Hugo Awards: A Report on Censorship and Exclusion
>>
>> https://www.patreon.com/posts/98498779
>
>also, there's some BBC coverage here.
>Nearer to the end of a 45 minute radio show.
><https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001w8cd>
>
>And incidentally, celebrity book club
>"A Good Read" picked up _The Hitchhiker's
>Guide to the Galaxy_, today.
><https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001w73r>
>

So, can 2023 be opened for "Retrospective Hugo Awards"?
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

In article <l371jdF62koU1@mid.individual.net>,
Ted Nolan <tednolan> <tednolan> wrote:
>In article <uqlis1$3dm6e$1@dont-email.me>,
>Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@gmail.com> wrote:
>>On 15/02/2024 02:52, James Nicoll wrote:
>>> The 2023 Hugo Awards: A Report on Censorship and Exclusion
>>>
>>> https://www.patreon.com/posts/98498779
>>
>>also, there's some BBC coverage here.
>>Nearer to the end of a 45 minute radio show.
>><https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001w8cd>
>>
>>And incidentally, celebrity book club
>>"A Good Read" picked up _The Hitchhiker's
>>Guide to the Galaxy_, today.
>><https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001w73r>
>>
>
>So, can 2023 be opened for "Retrospective Hugo Awards"?

That is an amusing suggestion. Unfortunately, we will have to wait
until 2073 before it can be implemented.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

On Feb 15, 2024, ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan wrote
(in article <l371jdF62koU1@mid.individual.net>):

> In article<uqlis1$3dm6e$1@dont-email.me>,
> Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 15/02/2024 02:52, James Nicoll wrote:
> > > The 2023 Hugo Awards: A Report on Censorship and Exclusion
> > >
> > > https://www.patreon.com/posts/98498779
> >
> > also, there's some BBC coverage here.
> > Nearer to the end of a 45 minute radio show.
> > <https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001w8cd>
> >
> > And incidentally, celebrity book club
> > "A Good Read" picked up _The Hitchhiker's
> > Guide to the Galaxy_, today.
> > <https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001w73r>
>
> So, can 2023 be opened for "Retrospective Hugo Awards"?

Doubt it.

Just do whatever is necessary to never, ever, let a Worldcon be awarded to
the likes of the People’s Republic again.

On 2/15/2024 12:51 PM, WolfFan wrote:
> On Feb 15, 2024, ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan wrote
> (in article <l371jdF62koU1@mid.individual.net>):
>
>> In article<uqlis1$3dm6e$1@dont-email.me>,
>> Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 15/02/2024 02:52, James Nicoll wrote:
>>>> The 2023 Hugo Awards: A Report on Censorship and Exclusion
>>>>
>>>> https://www.patreon.com/posts/98498779
>>>
>>> also, there's some BBC coverage here.
>>> Nearer to the end of a 45 minute radio show.
>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001w8cd>
>>>
>>> And incidentally, celebrity book club
>>> "A Good Read" picked up _The Hitchhiker's
>>> Guide to the Galaxy_, today.
>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001w73r>
>>
>> So, can 2023 be opened for "Retrospective Hugo Awards"?
>
> Doubt it.
>
> Just do whatever is necessary to never, ever, let a Worldcon be awarded to
> the likes of the People’s Republic again.
>
The REAL cause of WWIII! :P

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

On 2024-02-15, WolfFan <akwolffan@zoho.com> wrote:
> On Feb 15, 2024, ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan wrote
> (in article <l371jdF62koU1@mid.individual.net>):
>
>> In article<uqlis1$3dm6e$1@dont-email.me>,
>> Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On 15/02/2024 02:52, James Nicoll wrote:
>> > > The 2023 Hugo Awards: A Report on Censorship and Exclusion
>> > >
>> > > https://www.patreon.com/posts/98498779
>> >
>> > also, there's some BBC coverage here.
>> > Nearer to the end of a 45 minute radio show.
>> > <https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001w8cd>
>> >
>> > And incidentally, celebrity book club
>> > "A Good Read" picked up _The Hitchhiker's
>> > Guide to the Galaxy_, today.
>> > <https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001w73r>
>>
>> So, can 2023 be opened for "Retrospective Hugo Awards"?
>
> Doubt it.
>
> Just do whatever is necessary to never, ever, let a Worldcon be awarded to
> the likes of the People’s Republic again.

Pretty much everybody agrees with this, but exactly what is to be done is
much more problematic.

1. It's going to take time. Changes need to be approved by two consecutive
WorldCon business meetings. So we're talking about 3 years from now.

2. There's going to be a large debate just considering site selection.
Eg, there's a quite large contingent that wants to eliminate Uganda because
of its strong anti-gay laws (Uganda has been organizing a bid for the
first African WorldCon). There's another contingent lobbying against
several Eastern European countries like Hungary for both anti-gay and
repression reasons. There's another contingent that wants to make sure
Texas and Florida can never get a WorldCon.

3. Then there's the entire debate about whether and how much to
separate the WorldCon and Hugo Awards. Deep philosophical divisions
here.

If they try to do something minimal in Glasgow (this year's WorldCon)
like just adopting the voluntary actions that Glasgow has already
announced, then that should get adopted for the third year. But with
all the more ambitious proposals, we have the potential to cause
schisms which are a very dangerous in a 99% amateur volunteer
community!

Chris

On Feb 15, 2024, Chris Buckley wrote
(in article <l383n7Fbrv0U1@mid.individual.net>):

> On 2024-02-15, WolfFan<akwolffan@zoho.com> wrote:
> > On Feb 15, 2024, ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan wrote
> > (in article <l371jdF62koU1@mid.individual.net>):
> >
> > > In article<uqlis1$3dm6e$1@dont-email.me>,
> > > Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > On 15/02/2024 02:52, James Nicoll wrote:
> > > > > The 2023 Hugo Awards: A Report on Censorship and Exclusion
> > > > >
> > > > > https://www.patreon.com/posts/98498779
> > > >
> > > > also, there's some BBC coverage here.
> > > > Nearer to the end of a 45 minute radio show.
> > > > <https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001w8cd>
> > > >
> > > > And incidentally, celebrity book club
> > > > "A Good Read" picked up _The Hitchhiker's
> > > > Guide to the Galaxy_, today.
> > > > <https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001w73r>
> > >
> > > So, can 2023 be opened for "Retrospective Hugo Awards"?
> >
> > Doubt it.
> >
> > Just do whatever is necessary to never, ever, let a Worldcon be awarded to
> > the likes of the People’s Republic again.
>
> Pretty much everybody agrees with this, but exactly what is to be done is
> much more problematic.
>
> 1. It's going to take time. Changes need to be approved by two consecutive
> WorldCon business meetings. So we're talking about 3 years from now.
>
> 2. There's going to be a large debate just considering site selection.
> Eg, there's a quite large contingent that wants to eliminate Uganda because
> of its strong anti-gay laws (Uganda has been organizing a bid for the
> first African WorldCon). There's another contingent lobbying against
> several Eastern European countries like Hungary for both anti-gay and
> repression reasons. There's another contingent that wants to make sure
> Texas and Florida can never get a WorldCon.

Good luck with any of that. Pretty much all of English-speaking Africa (and
the Caribbean) has ’strong’ anti-gay laws, thanks to HM Gov in London.
French-speaking Africa (and the Caribbean) has similar laws, thanks to French
colonialism... except for the bits which are now ‘Overseas Departments’
of France, which have current French law. If Britain had gone the ‘overseas
department’ route, the way France and the Netherlands did, the law would be
different. As it is, for quite some time the final court of appeals in much
of the ex-Empire were the Law Lords of HM’s Privy Council. The Privy
Council has been kicked out of most of the ex-Empire for several reasons,
including a desire to apply current British law, making it difficult when
ex-colonies wanted to hang miscreants. The screaming from Jamaica when the
Law Lords declard chunks of the Gun Court Act to be unconstitutional could be
heard in London, without need for radio or telephone, and the Caribbean Court
of Appeal was set up as a direct response. If Jamaica, Barbados, Trinidad,
etc. had been overseas departments of Britain, complete with the ability to
vote in UK general elections and to send reps to Parliament in Britain,
things might have been different. If Kenya, Uganda, Nigeria, etc. had been
overseas departments, things would have been very different.

As for Texas and Florida... I don’t know about Abbot in Texas, but Ron
DeSatan’s days are numbered. He has Offended The Mouse. The Mouse does not
forgive. The Mouse does not forget. Hell waits for thee.
>
>
> 3. Then there's the entire debate about whether and how much to
> separate the WorldCon and Hugo Awards. Deep philosophical divisions
> here.

should have been done decades ago.
>
>
> If they try to do something minimal in Glasgow (this year's WorldCon)
> like just adopting the voluntary actions that Glasgow has already
> announced, then that should get adopted for the third year. But with
> all the more ambitious proposals, we have the potential to cause
> schisms which are a very dangerous in a 99% amateur volunteer
> community!

storm in a teacup. Most fans don’t care. if they cared, something would
have been done about the Hugos a long time ago.
>
>
> Chris

On 2/16/2024 6:40 AM, WolfFan wrote:
> On Feb 15, 2024, Chris Buckley wrote
> (in article <l383n7Fbrv0U1@mid.individual.net>):
>
>> On 2024-02-15, WolfFan<akwolffan@zoho.com> wrote:
>>> On Feb 15, 2024, ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan wrote
>>> (in article <l371jdF62koU1@mid.individual.net>):
>>>
>>>> In article<uqlis1$3dm6e$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>> Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 15/02/2024 02:52, James Nicoll wrote:
>>>>>> The 2023 Hugo Awards: A Report on Censorship and Exclusion
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.patreon.com/posts/98498779
>>>>>
>>>>> also, there's some BBC coverage here.
>>>>> Nearer to the end of a 45 minute radio show.
>>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001w8cd>
>>>>>
>>>>> And incidentally, celebrity book club
>>>>> "A Good Read" picked up _The Hitchhiker's
>>>>> Guide to the Galaxy_, today.
>>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001w73r>
>>>>
>>>> So, can 2023 be opened for "Retrospective Hugo Awards"?
>>>
>>> Doubt it.
>>>
>>> Just do whatever is necessary to never, ever, let a Worldcon be awarded to
>>> the likes of the People’s Republic again.
>>
>> Pretty much everybody agrees with this, but exactly what is to be done is
>> much more problematic.
>>
>> 1. It's going to take time. Changes need to be approved by two consecutive
>> WorldCon business meetings. So we're talking about 3 years from now.
>>
>> 2. There's going to be a large debate just considering site selection.
>> Eg, there's a quite large contingent that wants to eliminate Uganda because
>> of its strong anti-gay laws (Uganda has been organizing a bid for the
>> first African WorldCon). There's another contingent lobbying against
>> several Eastern European countries like Hungary for both anti-gay and
>> repression reasons. There's another contingent that wants to make sure
>> Texas and Florida can never get a WorldCon.
>
> Good luck with any of that. Pretty much all of English-speaking Africa (and
> the Caribbean) has ’strong’ anti-gay laws, thanks to HM Gov in London.
> French-speaking Africa (and the Caribbean) has similar laws, thanks to French
> colonialism... except for the bits which are now ‘Overseas Departments’
> of France, which have current French law. If Britain had gone the ‘overseas
> department’ route, the way France and the Netherlands did, the law would be
> different. As it is, for quite some time the final court of appeals in much
> of the ex-Empire were the Law Lords of HM’s Privy Council. The Privy
> Council has been kicked out of most of the ex-Empire for several reasons,
> including a desire to apply current British law, making it difficult when
> ex-colonies wanted to hang miscreants. The screaming from Jamaica when the
> Law Lords declard chunks of the Gun Court Act to be unconstitutional could be
> heard in London, without need for radio or telephone, and the Caribbean Court
> of Appeal was set up as a direct response. If Jamaica, Barbados, Trinidad,
> etc. had been overseas departments of Britain, complete with the ability to
> vote in UK general elections and to send reps to Parliament in Britain,
> things might have been different. If Kenya, Uganda, Nigeria, etc. had been
> overseas departments, things would have been very different.
>
> As for Texas and Florida... I don’t know about Abbot in Texas, but Ron
> DeSatan’s days are numbered. He has Offended The Mouse. The Mouse does not
> forgive. The Mouse does not forget. Hell waits for thee.

Worse than offending The Mouse, he challenged The Almighty Orange One.
He likely has some Red Hats hunting him now.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

On 16 Feb 2024 03:39:19 GMT, Chris Buckley <alan@sabir.com> wrote:

<snippo>

>1. It's going to take time. Changes need to be approved by two consecutive
>WorldCon business meetings. So we're talking about 3 years from now.
>
>2. There's going to be a large debate just considering site selection.
>Eg, there's a quite large contingent that wants to eliminate Uganda because
>of its strong anti-gay laws (Uganda has been organizing a bid for the
>first African WorldCon). There's another contingent lobbying against
>several Eastern European countries like Hungary for both anti-gay and
>repression reasons. There's another contingent that wants to make sure
>Texas and Florida can never get a WorldCon.

That's the problem with a /World/Con -- excluding countries makes it
less than what it claims to be.

OTOH, awarding it to countries that behave badly produces bad optics.

And "behave badly" can have different definitions to different people.

Also, "never" is a very long time. As Babu might say.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

On Fri, 16 Feb 2024 09:40:23 -0500, WolfFan <akwolffan@zoho.com>
wrote:

>On Feb 15, 2024, Chris Buckley wrote
>(in article <l383n7Fbrv0U1@mid.individual.net>):

<snippo>

>> 1. It's going to take time. Changes need to be approved by two consecutive
>> WorldCon business meetings. So we're talking about 3 years from now.
>>
>> 2. There's going to be a large debate just considering site selection.
>> Eg, there's a quite large contingent that wants to eliminate Uganda because
>> of its strong anti-gay laws (Uganda has been organizing a bid for the
>> first African WorldCon). There's another contingent lobbying against
>> several Eastern European countries like Hungary for both anti-gay and
>> repression reasons. There's another contingent that wants to make sure
>> Texas and Florida can never get a WorldCon.
>
>Good luck with any of that. Pretty much all of English-speaking Africa (and
>the Caribbean) has ’strong’ anti-gay laws, thanks to HM Gov in London.
>French-speaking Africa (and the Caribbean) has similar laws, thanks to French
>colonialism... except for the bits which are now ‘Overseas Departments’
>of France, which have current French law. If Britain had gone the ‘overseas
>department’ route, the way France and the Netherlands did, the law would be
>different. As it is, for quite some time the final court of appeals in much
>of the ex-Empire were the Law Lords of HM’s Privy Council. The Privy
>Council has been kicked out of most of the ex-Empire for several reasons,
>including a desire to apply current British law, making it difficult when
>ex-colonies wanted to hang miscreants. The screaming from Jamaica when the
>Law Lords declard chunks of the Gun Court Act to be unconstitutional could be
>heard in London, without need for radio or telephone, and the Caribbean Court
>of Appeal was set up as a direct response. If Jamaica, Barbados, Trinidad,
>etc. had been overseas departments of Britain, complete with the ability to
>vote in UK general elections and to send reps to Parliament in Britain,
>things might have been different. If Kenya, Uganda, Nigeria, etc. had been
>overseas departments, things would have been very different.

Articles I have read have suggested that the anti-gay laws are partly
based on religion and partly on local tradition. The people claiming
this were trying to debunk the claim that Evangelical speakers who
recommended such measures were reponsible, but I don't think they
would be any happier with being told that they were doing what the
colonialists had wanted when they were in charge.

>As for Texas and Florida... I don’t know about Abbot in Texas, but Ron
>DeSatan’s days are numbered. He has Offended The Mouse. The Mouse does not
>forgive. The Mouse does not forget. Hell waits for thee.

Adams is one shot at Fort Sumter (metaphorically speaking) from
finding out that Texas does /not/ have full control of its own
destiny, never mind anyone else's.

DeSantis' Mussolini act is, indeed, wearing thin. He is apparently on
the Primary ballot for Washington; I guess he withdrew too late to
change the lineup here.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

On 2/16/2024 9:07 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Feb 2024 09:40:23 -0500, WolfFan <akwolffan@zoho.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Feb 15, 2024, Chris Buckley wrote
>> (in article <l383n7Fbrv0U1@mid.individual.net>):
>
> <snippo>
>
>>> 1. It's going to take time. Changes need to be approved by two consecutive
>>> WorldCon business meetings. So we're talking about 3 years from now.
>>>
>>> 2. There's going to be a large debate just considering site selection.
>>> Eg, there's a quite large contingent that wants to eliminate Uganda because
>>> of its strong anti-gay laws (Uganda has been organizing a bid for the
>>> first African WorldCon). There's another contingent lobbying against
>>> several Eastern European countries like Hungary for both anti-gay and
>>> repression reasons. There's another contingent that wants to make sure
>>> Texas and Florida can never get a WorldCon.
>>
>> Good luck with any of that. Pretty much all of English-speaking Africa (and
>> the Caribbean) has ’strong’ anti-gay laws, thanks to HM Gov in London.
>> French-speaking Africa (and the Caribbean) has similar laws, thanks to French
>> colonialism... except for the bits which are now ‘Overseas Departments’
>> of France, which have current French law. If Britain had gone the ‘overseas
>> department’ route, the way France and the Netherlands did, the law would be
>> different. As it is, for quite some time the final court of appeals in much
>> of the ex-Empire were the Law Lords of HM’s Privy Council. The Privy
>> Council has been kicked out of most of the ex-Empire for several reasons,
>> including a desire to apply current British law, making it difficult when
>> ex-colonies wanted to hang miscreants. The screaming from Jamaica when the
>> Law Lords declard chunks of the Gun Court Act to be unconstitutional could be
>> heard in London, without need for radio or telephone, and the Caribbean Court
>> of Appeal was set up as a direct response. If Jamaica, Barbados, Trinidad,
>> etc. had been overseas departments of Britain, complete with the ability to
>> vote in UK general elections and to send reps to Parliament in Britain,
>> things might have been different. If Kenya, Uganda, Nigeria, etc. had been
>> overseas departments, things would have been very different.
>
> Articles I have read have suggested that the anti-gay laws are partly
> based on religion and partly on local tradition. The people claiming
> this were trying to debunk the claim that Evangelical speakers who
> recommended such measures were reponsible, but I don't think they
> would be any happier with being told that they were doing what the
> colonialists had wanted when they were in charge.
>
>> As for Texas and Florida... I don’t know about Abbot in Texas, but Ron
>> DeSatan’s days are numbered. He has Offended The Mouse. The Mouse does not
>> forgive. The Mouse does not forget. Hell waits for thee.
>
> Adams is one shot at Fort Sumter (metaphorically speaking) from
> finding out that Texas does /not/ have full control of its own
> destiny, never mind anyone else's.
>
Did you mean Abbott, as in the governor of Texas?

> DeSantis' Mussolini act is, indeed, wearing thin. He is apparently on
> the Primary ballot for Washington; I guess he withdrew too late to
> change the lineup here.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

On Fri, 16 Feb 2024 11:28:17 -0800, Dimensional Traveler
<dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:

>On 2/16/2024 9:07 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>> On Fri, 16 Feb 2024 09:40:23 -0500, WolfFan <akwolffan@zoho.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Feb 15, 2024, Chris Buckley wrote
>>> (in article <l383n7Fbrv0U1@mid.individual.net>):
>>
>> <snippo>
>>
>>>> 1. It's going to take time. Changes need to be approved by two consecutive
>>>> WorldCon business meetings. So we're talking about 3 years from now.
>>>>
>>>> 2. There's going to be a large debate just considering site selection.
>>>> Eg, there's a quite large contingent that wants to eliminate Uganda because
>>>> of its strong anti-gay laws (Uganda has been organizing a bid for the
>>>> first African WorldCon). There's another contingent lobbying against
>>>> several Eastern European countries like Hungary for both anti-gay and
>>>> repression reasons. There's another contingent that wants to make sure
>>>> Texas and Florida can never get a WorldCon.
>>>
>>> Good luck with any of that. Pretty much all of English-speaking Africa (and
>>> the Caribbean) has ’strong’ anti-gay laws, thanks to HM Gov in London.
>>> French-speaking Africa (and the Caribbean) has similar laws, thanks to French
>>> colonialism... except for the bits which are now ‘Overseas Departments’
>>> of France, which have current French law. If Britain had gone the ‘overseas
>>> department’ route, the way France and the Netherlands did, the law would be
>>> different. As it is, for quite some time the final court of appeals in much
>>> of the ex-Empire were the Law Lords of HM’s Privy Council. The Privy
>>> Council has been kicked out of most of the ex-Empire for several reasons,
>>> including a desire to apply current British law, making it difficult when
>>> ex-colonies wanted to hang miscreants. The screaming from Jamaica when the
>>> Law Lords declard chunks of the Gun Court Act to be unconstitutional could be
>>> heard in London, without need for radio or telephone, and the Caribbean Court
>>> of Appeal was set up as a direct response. If Jamaica, Barbados, Trinidad,
>>> etc. had been overseas departments of Britain, complete with the ability to
>>> vote in UK general elections and to send reps to Parliament in Britain,
>>> things might have been different. If Kenya, Uganda, Nigeria, etc. had been
>>> overseas departments, things would have been very different.
>>
>> Articles I have read have suggested that the anti-gay laws are partly
>> based on religion and partly on local tradition. The people claiming
>> this were trying to debunk the claim that Evangelical speakers who
>> recommended such measures were reponsible, but I don't think they
>> would be any happier with being told that they were doing what the
>> colonialists had wanted when they were in charge.
>>
>>> As for Texas and Florida... I don’t know about Abbot in Texas, but Ron
>>> DeSatan’s days are numbered. He has Offended The Mouse. The Mouse does not
>>> forgive. The Mouse does not forget. Hell waits for thee.
>>
>> Adams is one shot at Fort Sumter (metaphorically speaking) from
>> finding out that Texas does /not/ have full control of its own
>> destiny, never mind anyone else's.
>>
>Did you mean Abbott, as in the governor of Texas?

I did. Sorry for the confusion.

>> DeSantis' Mussolini act is, indeed, wearing thin. He is apparently on
>> the Primary ballot for Washington; I guess he withdrew too late to
>> change the lineup here.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"