On Tue, 13 Feb 2024 09:54:58 -0800, Robert Woodward
<robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:

>In article <uf5nsi5ph9oohvd9dva176pgm6douovajo@4ax.com>,
> Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 13 Feb 2024 10:12:10 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >On Mon, 12 Feb 2024, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> >
>> >> On 2/12/2024 3:41 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
>> >>> D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>> >>>> I find these types of books very fascinating! Can you learn to like
>> >>>> them?>> >>>> Is the reason that you and I did not finish them, that we have not
>> >>>> yet=20
>> >>>> achieved the pinnacle of aesthetic development? Will we pick up the
>> >>>> book=20
>> >>>> in 10 years and love it?
>> >>>
>> >>> I think so, but as I said, I had to read Dhalgren several times and think
>> >>> about it a lot in order to figure out how the narrative actually worked.
>> >>>
>> >>> My friend in 6th grade was a huge fan of Dune, and I started to read Dune
>> >>> and couldn't get into it. Years later (when I was out of grad school and
>> >>> finally had time to think about something else again) I tried reading it
>> >>> again and I thought it was wonderful. So yes, we might change and
>> >>> approach
>> >>> the book differently in the future.
>> >>> --scott
>> >>
>> >> I am not going to try The Lord Of The Rings again. Two bounces is enough.
>> >> But I loved The Hobbit.
>> >>
>> >> Lynn
>> >
>> >Interesting! I like both Dune and Lord of the rings, so interesting to
>> >hear that those two represent "problem books" for others.
>> >
>>
>> I bounced from LOTR the first time, but the second time I persisted
>> unitl the silliness abated and we left Bree. From that point it
>> worked.
>
>I bounced from _LOTR_ the first time as well (I think it was the Council
>of Elrond where I lost interest - a committee scene - I might had been
>15 at the time).

<oops! forgot to add this -- lots of exposition.>

<a lot of exposition.> Which is probably why, the movie, it is the
Shouting Match of Elrond, which is degenerating into the Bar Brawl of
Elrond when Frodo speaks up.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

On 2/14/2024 9:13 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Feb 2024 09:54:58 -0800, Robert Woodward
> <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:
>
>> In article <uf5nsi5ph9oohvd9dva176pgm6douovajo@4ax.com>,
>> Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 13 Feb 2024 10:12:10 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, 12 Feb 2024, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2/12/2024 3:41 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>>>>> D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> I find these types of books very fascinating! Can you learn to like
>>>>>>> them?=
>>>>>>> Is the reason that you and I did not finish them, that we have not
>>>>>>> yet=20
>>>>>>> achieved the pinnacle of aesthetic development? Will we pick up the
>>>>>>> book=20
>>>>>>> in 10 years and love it?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think so, but as I said, I had to read Dhalgren several times and think
>>>>>> about it a lot in order to figure out how the narrative actually worked.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My friend in 6th grade was a huge fan of Dune, and I started to read Dune
>>>>>> and couldn't get into it. Years later (when I was out of grad school and
>>>>>> finally had time to think about something else again) I tried reading it
>>>>>> again and I thought it was wonderful. So yes, we might change and
>>>>>> approach
>>>>>> the book differently in the future.
>>>>>> --scott
>>>>>
>>>>> I am not going to try The Lord Of The Rings again. Two bounces is enough.
>>>>> But I loved The Hobbit.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lynn
>>>>
>>>> Interesting! I like both Dune and Lord of the rings, so interesting to
>>>> hear that those two represent "problem books" for others.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I bounced from LOTR the first time, but the second time I persisted
>>> unitl the silliness abated and we left Bree. From that point it
>>> worked.
>>
>> I bounced from _LOTR_ the first time as well (I think it was the Council
>> of Elrond where I lost interest - a committee scene - I might had been
>> 15 at the time).
>
> <oops! forgot to add this -- lots of exposition.>
>
> <a lot of exposition.> Which is probably why, the movie, it is the
> Shouting Match of Elrond, which is degenerating into the Bar Brawl of
> Elrond when Frodo speaks up.

I never had any problem reading LoTR in my teens. I read the entire
Baum OZ series as a child too along with a significant number of other
books. I had access my mother's entire childhood library and _her_
mother's childhood library and read a lot.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

In article <uqivgv$2ol9l$1@dont-email.me>,
Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>On 2/14/2024 9:13 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>> On Tue, 13 Feb 2024 09:54:58 -0800, Robert Woodward
>> <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <uf5nsi5ph9oohvd9dva176pgm6douovajo@4ax.com>,
>>> Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 13 Feb 2024 10:12:10 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 12 Feb 2024, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2/12/2024 3:41 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>>>>>> D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> I find these types of books very fascinating! Can you learn to like
>>>>>>>> them?=
>>>>>>>> Is the reason that you and I did not finish them, that we have not
>>>>>>>> yet=20
>>>>>>>> achieved the pinnacle of aesthetic development? Will we pick up the
>>>>>>>> book=20
>>>>>>>> in 10 years and love it?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think so, but as I said, I had to read Dhalgren several times and think
>>>>>>> about it a lot in order to figure out how the narrative actually worked.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My friend in 6th grade was a huge fan of Dune, and I started to read Dune
>>>>>>> and couldn't get into it. Years later (when I was out of grad school and
>>>>>>> finally had time to think about something else again) I tried reading it
>>>>>>> again and I thought it was wonderful. So yes, we might change and
>>>>>>> approach
>>>>>>> the book differently in the future.
>>>>>>> --scott
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am not going to try The Lord Of The Rings again. Two bounces is enough.
>>>>>> But I loved The Hobbit.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lynn
>>>>>
>>>>> Interesting! I like both Dune and Lord of the rings, so interesting to
>>>>> hear that those two represent "problem books" for others.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I bounced from LOTR the first time, but the second time I persisted
>>>> unitl the silliness abated and we left Bree. From that point it
>>>> worked.
>>>
>>> I bounced from _LOTR_ the first time as well (I think it was the Council
>>> of Elrond where I lost interest - a committee scene - I might had been
>>> 15 at the time).
>>
>> <oops! forgot to add this -- lots of exposition.>
>>
>> <a lot of exposition.> Which is probably why, the movie, it is the
>> Shouting Match of Elrond, which is degenerating into the Bar Brawl of
>> Elrond when Frodo speaks up.
>
>I never had any problem reading LoTR in my teens. I read the entire
>Baum OZ series as a child too along with a significant number of other
>books. I had access my mother's entire childhood library and _her_
>mother's childhood library and read a lot.
>

Now "OZ" I bounced off of many times. Finally forced myself to finish
it a few years ago, but man it was a slog.
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

On 2/14/2024 10:27 AM, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> In article <uqivgv$2ol9l$1@dont-email.me>,
> Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>> On 2/14/2024 9:13 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>> On Tue, 13 Feb 2024 09:54:58 -0800, Robert Woodward
>>> <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article <uf5nsi5ph9oohvd9dva176pgm6douovajo@4ax.com>,
>>>> Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 13 Feb 2024 10:12:10 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, 12 Feb 2024, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2/12/2024 3:41 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>>>>>>> D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I find these types of books very fascinating! Can you learn to like
>>>>>>>>> them?=
>>>>>>>>> Is the reason that you and I did not finish them, that we have not
>>>>>>>>> yet=20
>>>>>>>>> achieved the pinnacle of aesthetic development? Will we pick up the
>>>>>>>>> book=20
>>>>>>>>> in 10 years and love it?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think so, but as I said, I had to read Dhalgren several times and think
>>>>>>>> about it a lot in order to figure out how the narrative actually worked.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My friend in 6th grade was a huge fan of Dune, and I started to read Dune
>>>>>>>> and couldn't get into it. Years later (when I was out of grad school and
>>>>>>>> finally had time to think about something else again) I tried reading it
>>>>>>>> again and I thought it was wonderful. So yes, we might change and
>>>>>>>> approach
>>>>>>>> the book differently in the future.
>>>>>>>> --scott
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am not going to try The Lord Of The Rings again. Two bounces is enough.
>>>>>>> But I loved The Hobbit.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lynn
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Interesting! I like both Dune and Lord of the rings, so interesting to
>>>>>> hear that those two represent "problem books" for others.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I bounced from LOTR the first time, but the second time I persisted
>>>>> unitl the silliness abated and we left Bree. From that point it
>>>>> worked.
>>>>
>>>> I bounced from _LOTR_ the first time as well (I think it was the Council
>>>> of Elrond where I lost interest - a committee scene - I might had been
>>>> 15 at the time).
>>>
>>> <oops! forgot to add this -- lots of exposition.>
>>>
>>> <a lot of exposition.> Which is probably why, the movie, it is the
>>> Shouting Match of Elrond, which is degenerating into the Bar Brawl of
>>> Elrond when Frodo speaks up.
>>
>> I never had any problem reading LoTR in my teens. I read the entire
>> Baum OZ series as a child too along with a significant number of other
>> books. I had access my mother's entire childhood library and _her_
>> mother's childhood library and read a lot.
>>
>
> Now "OZ" I bounced off of many times. Finally forced myself to finish
> it a few years ago, but man it was a slog.

Do you remember why it was such a slog for you?

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

In article <uqj52g$2popm$1@dont-email.me>,
Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>On 2/14/2024 10:27 AM, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
>> In article <uqivgv$2ol9l$1@dont-email.me>,
>> Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>>> On 2/14/2024 9:13 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 13 Feb 2024 09:54:58 -0800, Robert Woodward
>>>> <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In article <uf5nsi5ph9oohvd9dva176pgm6douovajo@4ax.com>,
>>>>> Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, 13 Feb 2024 10:12:10 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, 12 Feb 2024, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2/12/2024 3:41 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>>>>>>>> D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> I find these types of books very fascinating! Can you learn to like
>>>>>>>>>> them?=
>>>>>>>>>> Is the reason that you and I did not finish them, that we have not
>>>>>>>>>> yet=20
>>>>>>>>>> achieved the pinnacle of aesthetic development? Will we pick up the
>>>>>>>>>> book=20
>>>>>>>>>> in 10 years and love it?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I think so, but as I said, I had to read Dhalgren several times
>and think
>>>>>>>>> about it a lot in order to figure out how the narrative
>actually worked.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My friend in 6th grade was a huge fan of Dune, and I started to
>read Dune
>>>>>>>>> and couldn't get into it. Years later (when I was out of grad
>school and
>>>>>>>>> finally had time to think about something else again) I tried
>reading it
>>>>>>>>> again and I thought it was wonderful. So yes, we might change and
>>>>>>>>> approach
>>>>>>>>> the book differently in the future.
>>>>>>>>> --scott
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am not going to try The Lord Of The Rings again. Two bounces
>is enough.
>>>>>>>> But I loved The Hobbit.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Lynn
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Interesting! I like both Dune and Lord of the rings, so interesting to
>>>>>>> hear that those two represent "problem books" for others.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I bounced from LOTR the first time, but the second time I persisted
>>>>>> unitl the silliness abated and we left Bree. From that point it
>>>>>> worked.
>>>>>
>>>>> I bounced from _LOTR_ the first time as well (I think it was the Council
>>>>> of Elrond where I lost interest - a committee scene - I might had been
>>>>> 15 at the time).
>>>>
>>>> <oops! forgot to add this -- lots of exposition.>
>>>>
>>>> <a lot of exposition.> Which is probably why, the movie, it is the
>>>> Shouting Match of Elrond, which is degenerating into the Bar Brawl of
>>>> Elrond when Frodo speaks up.
>>>
>>> I never had any problem reading LoTR in my teens. I read the entire
>>> Baum OZ series as a child too along with a significant number of other
>>> books. I had access my mother's entire childhood library and _her_
>>> mother's childhood library and read a lot.
>>>
>>
>> Now "OZ" I bounced off of many times. Finally forced myself to finish
>> it a few years ago, but man it was a slog.
>
>Do you remember why it was such a slog for you?
>
>--
>I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
>dirty old man.
>

Hard to say as I've already forgotten a lot of it, but some of it
was that everything was just so matter-of-fact for Dorothy. I never
felt she really reacted to anything farfetched happening, and never
felt she was in any danger.
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

On 14/02/2024 21:23, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> In article <uqj52g$2popm$1@dont-email.me>,
> Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>> On 2/14/2024 10:27 AM, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
>>> In article <uqivgv$2ol9l$1@dont-email.me>,
>>> Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>>>> On 2/14/2024 9:13 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 13 Feb 2024 09:54:58 -0800, Robert Woodward
>>>>> <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In article <uf5nsi5ph9oohvd9dva176pgm6douovajo@4ax.com>,
>>>>>> Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, 13 Feb 2024 10:12:10 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, 12 Feb 2024, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 2/12/2024 3:41 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> I find these types of books very fascinating! Can you learn to like
>>>>>>>>>>> them?=
>>>>>>>>>>> Is the reason that you and I did not finish them, that we have not
>>>>>>>>>>> yet=20
>>>>>>>>>>> achieved the pinnacle of aesthetic development? Will we pick up the
>>>>>>>>>>> book=20
>>>>>>>>>>> in 10 years and love it?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I think so, but as I said, I had to read Dhalgren several times
>> and think
>>>>>>>>>> about it a lot in order to figure out how the narrative
>> actually worked.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> My friend in 6th grade was a huge fan of Dune, and I started to
>> read Dune
>>>>>>>>>> and couldn't get into it. Years later (when I was out of grad
>> school and
>>>>>>>>>> finally had time to think about something else again) I tried
>> reading it
>>>>>>>>>> again and I thought it was wonderful. So yes, we might change and
>>>>>>>>>> approach
>>>>>>>>>> the book differently in the future.
>>>>>>>>>> --scott
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am not going to try The Lord Of The Rings again. Two bounces
>> is enough.
>>>>>>>>> But I loved The Hobbit.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Lynn
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Interesting! I like both Dune and Lord of the rings, so interesting to
>>>>>>>> hear that those two represent "problem books" for others.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I bounced from LOTR the first time, but the second time I persisted
>>>>>>> unitl the silliness abated and we left Bree. From that point it
>>>>>>> worked.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I bounced from _LOTR_ the first time as well (I think it was the Council
>>>>>> of Elrond where I lost interest - a committee scene - I might had been
>>>>>> 15 at the time).
>>>>>
>>>>> <oops! forgot to add this -- lots of exposition.>
>>>>>
>>>>> <a lot of exposition.> Which is probably why, the movie, it is the
>>>>> Shouting Match of Elrond, which is degenerating into the Bar Brawl of
>>>>> Elrond when Frodo speaks up.
>>>>
>>>> I never had any problem reading LoTR in my teens. I read the entire
>>>> Baum OZ series as a child too along with a significant number of other
>>>> books. I had access my mother's entire childhood library and _her_
>>>> mother's childhood library and read a lot.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Now "OZ" I bounced off of many times. Finally forced myself to finish
>>> it a few years ago, but man it was a slog.
>>
>> Do you remember why it was such a slog for you?
>>
>> --
>> I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
>> dirty old man.
>>
>
> Hard to say as I've already forgotten a lot of it, but some of it
> was that everything was just so matter-of-fact for Dorothy. I never
> felt she really reacted to anything farfetched happening, and never
> felt she was in any danger.

The first book... If you know some of
the plot before you get to it, which after
all is written into modern American culture,
then you don't get the effect of surprise.
It was written for children, of course.
Dorothy meets threats. But she also has
friends, and assets, that protect her
against, say, casual highwaymen. I don't
remember myself if there are highwaymen.
There are the Hammer-Heads as a hazard
to travelers. They're not in the film.
Oz is not a safe place whien Dorothy arrives.
And getting there was a traumatic experience
in itself.

On Thu, 15 Feb 2024 03:50:11 +0000, Robert Carnegie
<rja.carnegie@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 14/02/2024 21:23, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
>> In article <uqj52g$2popm$1@dont-email.me>,
>> Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>>> On 2/14/2024 10:27 AM, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
>>>> In article <uqivgv$2ol9l$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>> Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>>>>> On 2/14/2024 9:13 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>>> On Tue, 13 Feb 2024 09:54:58 -0800, Robert Woodward
>>>>>> <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In article <uf5nsi5ph9oohvd9dva176pgm6douovajo@4ax.com>,
>>>>>>> Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, 13 Feb 2024 10:12:10 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 12 Feb 2024, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 2/12/2024 3:41 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> I find these types of books very fascinating! Can you learn to like
>>>>>>>>>>>> them?>>>>>>>>>>>> Is the reason that you and I did not finish them, that we have not
>>>>>>>>>>>> yet=20
>>>>>>>>>>>> achieved the pinnacle of aesthetic development? Will we pick up the
>>>>>>>>>>>> book=20
>>>>>>>>>>>> in 10 years and love it?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I think so, but as I said, I had to read Dhalgren several times
>>> and think
>>>>>>>>>>> about it a lot in order to figure out how the narrative
>>> actually worked.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> My friend in 6th grade was a huge fan of Dune, and I started to
>>> read Dune
>>>>>>>>>>> and couldn't get into it. Years later (when I was out of grad
>>> school and
>>>>>>>>>>> finally had time to think about something else again) I tried
>>> reading it
>>>>>>>>>>> again and I thought it was wonderful. So yes, we might change and
>>>>>>>>>>> approach
>>>>>>>>>>> the book differently in the future.
>>>>>>>>>>> --scott
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I am not going to try The Lord Of The Rings again. Two bounces
>>> is enough.
>>>>>>>>>> But I loved The Hobbit.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Lynn
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Interesting! I like both Dune and Lord of the rings, so interesting to
>>>>>>>>> hear that those two represent "problem books" for others.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I bounced from LOTR the first time, but the second time I persisted
>>>>>>>> unitl the silliness abated and we left Bree. From that point it
>>>>>>>> worked.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I bounced from _LOTR_ the first time as well (I think it was the Council
>>>>>>> of Elrond where I lost interest - a committee scene - I might had been
>>>>>>> 15 at the time).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <oops! forgot to add this -- lots of exposition.>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <a lot of exposition.> Which is probably why, the movie, it is the
>>>>>> Shouting Match of Elrond, which is degenerating into the Bar Brawl of
>>>>>> Elrond when Frodo speaks up.
>>>>>
>>>>> I never had any problem reading LoTR in my teens. I read the entire
>>>>> Baum OZ series as a child too along with a significant number of other
>>>>> books. I had access my mother's entire childhood library and _her_
>>>>> mother's childhood library and read a lot.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Now "OZ" I bounced off of many times. Finally forced myself to finish
>>>> it a few years ago, but man it was a slog.
>>>
>>> Do you remember why it was such a slog for you?
>>>
>>> --
>>> I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
>>> dirty old man.
>>>
>>
>> Hard to say as I've already forgotten a lot of it, but some of it
>> was that everything was just so matter-of-fact for Dorothy. I never
>> felt she really reacted to anything farfetched happening, and never
>> felt she was in any danger.
>
>The first book... If you know some of
>the plot before you get to it, which after
>all is written into modern American culture,
>then you don't get the effect of surprise.
>It was written for children, of course.
>Dorothy meets threats. But she also has
>friends, and assets, that protect her
>against, say, casual highwaymen. I don't
>remember myself if there are highwaymen.
>There are the Hammer-Heads as a hazard
>to travelers. They're not in the film.
>Oz is not a safe place whien Dorothy arrives.
>And getting there was a traumatic experience
>in itself.

My favorite Oz stories are /Zardoz/ and a short-story in which Glenda
is not as good as she seems and the Munchkins are her agents. The
climax comes when they switch a pitcher of water with one of acid.

Now /that/ made sense!
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

On 2/15/2024 11:41 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Feb 2024 03:50:11 +0000, Robert Carnegie
> <rja.carnegie@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 14/02/2024 21:23, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
>>> In article <uqj52g$2popm$1@dont-email.me>,
>>> Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>>>> On 2/14/2024 10:27 AM, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
>>>>> In article <uqivgv$2ol9l$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>>> Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>>>>>> On 2/14/2024 9:13 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tue, 13 Feb 2024 09:54:58 -0800, Robert Woodward
>>>>>>> <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In article <uf5nsi5ph9oohvd9dva176pgm6douovajo@4ax.com>,
>>>>>>>> Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 13 Feb 2024 10:12:10 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 12 Feb 2024, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/12/2024 3:41 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I find these types of books very fascinating! Can you learn to like
>>>>>>>>>>>>> them?=
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is the reason that you and I did not finish them, that we have not
>>>>>>>>>>>>> yet=20
>>>>>>>>>>>>> achieved the pinnacle of aesthetic development? Will we pick up the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> book=20
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in 10 years and love it?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I think so, but as I said, I had to read Dhalgren several times
>>>> and think
>>>>>>>>>>>> about it a lot in order to figure out how the narrative
>>>> actually worked.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> My friend in 6th grade was a huge fan of Dune, and I started to
>>>> read Dune
>>>>>>>>>>>> and couldn't get into it. Years later (when I was out of grad
>>>> school and
>>>>>>>>>>>> finally had time to think about something else again) I tried
>>>> reading it
>>>>>>>>>>>> again and I thought it was wonderful. So yes, we might change and
>>>>>>>>>>>> approach
>>>>>>>>>>>> the book differently in the future.
>>>>>>>>>>>> --scott
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I am not going to try The Lord Of The Rings again. Two bounces
>>>> is enough.
>>>>>>>>>>> But I loved The Hobbit.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Lynn
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Interesting! I like both Dune and Lord of the rings, so interesting to
>>>>>>>>>> hear that those two represent "problem books" for others.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I bounced from LOTR the first time, but the second time I persisted
>>>>>>>>> unitl the silliness abated and we left Bree. From that point it
>>>>>>>>> worked.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I bounced from _LOTR_ the first time as well (I think it was the Council
>>>>>>>> of Elrond where I lost interest - a committee scene - I might had been
>>>>>>>> 15 at the time).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <oops! forgot to add this -- lots of exposition.>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <a lot of exposition.> Which is probably why, the movie, it is the
>>>>>>> Shouting Match of Elrond, which is degenerating into the Bar Brawl of
>>>>>>> Elrond when Frodo speaks up.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I never had any problem reading LoTR in my teens. I read the entire
>>>>>> Baum OZ series as a child too along with a significant number of other
>>>>>> books. I had access my mother's entire childhood library and _her_
>>>>>> mother's childhood library and read a lot.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Now "OZ" I bounced off of many times. Finally forced myself to finish
>>>>> it a few years ago, but man it was a slog.
>>>>
>>>> Do you remember why it was such a slog for you?
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
>>>> dirty old man.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Hard to say as I've already forgotten a lot of it, but some of it
>>> was that everything was just so matter-of-fact for Dorothy. I never
>>> felt she really reacted to anything farfetched happening, and never
>>> felt she was in any danger.
>>
>> The first book... If you know some of
>> the plot before you get to it, which after
>> all is written into modern American culture,
>> then you don't get the effect of surprise.
>> It was written for children, of course.
>> Dorothy meets threats. But she also has
>> friends, and assets, that protect her
>> against, say, casual highwaymen. I don't
>> remember myself if there are highwaymen.
>> There are the Hammer-Heads as a hazard
>> to travelers. They're not in the film.
>> Oz is not a safe place whien Dorothy arrives.
>> And getting there was a traumatic experience
>> in itself.
>
> My favorite Oz stories are /Zardoz/ and a short-story in which Glenda
> is not as good as she seems and the Munchkins are her agents. The
> climax comes when they switch a pitcher of water with one of acid.
>
> Now /that/ made sense!

You might like 'Wicked'. Also, PJF's "A barnstormer in Oz'.

Oz was one of the first milieus to fall out of copyright, in 1956, but
I don't recall seeing anyone write new stories in it until the 80s.

pt