I believe that he wrote this because he was concerned about lazy authors
writing very bad heroic fantasy (employing ignorant world building).
According to the ISFDB, this first appeared in _Swords Against Darkness
III_, published in 1978 (the only one of that 5 title anthology series
that I don't have), and the collection _Fantasy_ published by Tor in
1981. I reread it recently and I think most of his arguments are still
appropriate (there has been more examples recently of backgrounds for
historical fantasy that weren't medieval Europe).

--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
�-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward robertaw@drizzle.com

In article <robertaw-3E38EE.22000428022024@news.individual.net>,
Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:
>I believe that he wrote this because he was concerned about lazy authors
>writing very bad heroic fantasy (employing ignorant world building).
>According to the ISFDB, this first appeared in _Swords Against Darkness
>III_, published in 1978 (the only one of that 5 title anthology series
>that I don't have), and the collection _Fantasy_ published by Tor in
>1981. I reread it recently and I think most of his arguments are still
>appropriate (there has been more examples recently of backgrounds for
>historical fantasy that weren't medieval Europe).
>
>--
>"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
>Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
>�-----------------------------------------------------
>Robert Woodward robertaw@drizzle.com

I'm not sure it was just "lazy" authors.

As I recall, one reason Howard turned to the Conan setting is that
he was trying to sell historical adventures to "Oriental Stories"
and kept getting dinged on the historical details, didn't have the
time or resourses to research everything, and decided "screw this"
and made his own world, perhaps not 100% consistent but having
whatever setting he needed. But he was hardly lazy, just needed
to be faster to make a living.

Something similar with Lieber I think. Lovecraft dinged him on the
Fafhrd & Mouser story set on Earth, and he decided the same: Well,
this is how stuff works on Newhon!
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

On 2/29/2024 1:00 AM, Robert Woodward wrote:
> I believe that he wrote this because he was concerned about lazy authors
> writing very bad heroic fantasy (employing ignorant world building).
> According to the ISFDB, this first appeared in _Swords Against Darkness
> III_, published in 1978 (the only one of that 5 title anthology series
> that I don't have), and the collection _Fantasy_ published by Tor in
> 1981. I reread it recently and I think most of his arguments are still
> appropriate (there has been more examples recently of backgrounds for
> historical fantasy that weren't medieval Europe).
>
You may want to look at Diane Wynn Jones' "The Tough Guide to Fairyland"
which also covers this territory. Latest edition is 2006.

pt

On 29/02/2024 06:00, Robert Woodward wrote:
> I believe that he wrote this because he was concerned about lazy authors
> writing very bad heroic fantasy (employing ignorant world building).
> According to the ISFDB, this first appeared in _Swords Against Darkness
> III_, published in 1978 (the only one of that 5 title anthology series
> that I don't have), and the collection _Fantasy_ published by Tor in
> 1981. I reread it recently and I think most of his arguments are still
> appropriate (there has been more examples recently of backgrounds for
> historical fantasy that weren't medieval Europe).

And here it is.
<https://www.sfwa.org/2005/01/04/on-thud-and-blunder/>

I've been told on Quora that one statement
is nonsense - the claim that a stallion,
a sexually mature male horse, "is not safe
to have around a menstruating woman".
If I say I don't have the resources to
investigate, that sounds wrong, but I don't.
But a lady tells me that it wasn't a problem.

I suppose it could be a real-world myth
amongst some or all horse handlers.
If Poul Anderson has just accurately said
that "A stallion is notoriously hard to
control", then people will usually take
steps to, er, not have a stallion.
(An imaginary horse and many readers
nervously cross their legs.) So then
it rarely arises. So to speak.

On Thu, 29 Feb 2024 20:51:22 +0000, Robert Carnegie
<rja.carnegie@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 29/02/2024 06:00, Robert Woodward wrote:
>> I believe that he wrote this because he was concerned about lazy authors
>> writing very bad heroic fantasy (employing ignorant world building).
>> According to the ISFDB, this first appeared in _Swords Against Darkness
>> III_, published in 1978 (the only one of that 5 title anthology series
>> that I don't have), and the collection _Fantasy_ published by Tor in
>> 1981. I reread it recently and I think most of his arguments are still
>> appropriate (there has been more examples recently of backgrounds for
>> historical fantasy that weren't medieval Europe).
>
>And here it is.
><https://www.sfwa.org/2005/01/04/on-thud-and-blunder/>
>
>I've been told on Quora that one statement
>is nonsense - the claim that a stallion,
>a sexually mature male horse, "is not safe
>to have around a menstruating woman".
>If I say I don't have the resources to
>investigate, that sounds wrong, but I don't.
>But a lady tells me that it wasn't a problem.
>
>I suppose it could be a real-world myth
>amongst some or all horse handlers.
>If Poul Anderson has just accurately said
>that "A stallion is notoriously hard to
>control", then people will usually take
>steps to, er, not have a stallion.
>(An imaginary horse and many readers
>nervously cross their legs.) So then
>it rarely arises. So to speak.

Anything to keep the women barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen.

Not my goal, BTW. Or yours, I am sure.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

On 2/29/24 1:00 AM, Robert Woodward wrote:
> I believe that he wrote this because he was concerned about lazy authors
> writing very bad heroic fantasy (employing ignorant world building).
> According to the ISFDB, this first appeared in _Swords Against Darkness
> III_, published in 1978 (the only one of that 5 title anthology series
> that I don't have), and the collection _Fantasy_ published by Tor in
> 1981. I reread it recently and I think most of his arguments are still
> appropriate (there has been more examples recently of backgrounds for
> historical fantasy that weren't medieval Europe).
>

I just re-read this[1], and I agree with you. I also really enjoy the
introductory example of what he's writing about, including the character
names Gnorts, Nialliv, Elamef, and Rehcel.

Tony
[1] I have the "Fantasy" volume you mention.

In article <urtlbv$1fan1$1@dont-email.me>,
Tony Nance <tnusenet17@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 2/29/24 1:00 AM, Robert Woodward wrote:
> > I believe that he wrote this because he was concerned about lazy authors
> > writing very bad heroic fantasy (employing ignorant world building).
> > According to the ISFDB, this first appeared in _Swords Against Darkness
> > III_, published in 1978 (the only one of that 5 title anthology series
> > that I don't have), and the collection _Fantasy_ published by Tor in
> > 1981. I reread it recently and I think most of his arguments are still
> > appropriate (there has been more examples recently of backgrounds for
> > historical fantasy that weren't medieval Europe).
> >
>
> I just re-read this[1], and I agree with you. I also really enjoy the
> introductory example of what he's writing about, including the character
> names Gnorts, Nialliv, Elamef, and Rehcel.
>

I must confess that I hadn't noticed until now, the following: "Strong",
"Villain", "Female", and "Lecher".

--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
—-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward robertaw@drizzle.com

On 02/03/2024 05:54, Robert Woodward wrote:
> In article <urtlbv$1fan1$1@dont-email.me>,
> Tony Nance <tnusenet17@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2/29/24 1:00 AM, Robert Woodward wrote:
>>> I believe that he wrote this because he was concerned about lazy authors
>>> writing very bad heroic fantasy (employing ignorant world building).
>>> According to the ISFDB, this first appeared in _Swords Against Darkness
>>> III_, published in 1978 (the only one of that 5 title anthology series
>>> that I don't have), and the collection _Fantasy_ published by Tor in
>>> 1981. I reread it recently and I think most of his arguments are still
>>> appropriate (there has been more examples recently of backgrounds for
>>> historical fantasy that weren't medieval Europe).
>>>
>>
>> I just re-read this[1], and I agree with you. I also really enjoy the
>> introductory example of what he's writing about, including the character
>> names Gnorts, Nialliv, Elamef, and Rehcel.
>>
>
> I must confess that I hadn't noticed until now, the following: "Strong",
> "Villain", "Female", and "Lecher".

I ron. :-)
I'll have to watch out for this Nosredna.

On 3/2/2024 1:18 PM, Robert Carnegie wrote:
> On 02/03/2024 05:54, Robert Woodward wrote:
>> In article <urtlbv$1fan1$1@dont-email.me>,
>>   Tony Nance <tnusenet17@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2/29/24 1:00 AM, Robert Woodward wrote:
>>>> I believe that he wrote this because he was concerned about lazy
>>>> authors
>>>> writing very bad heroic fantasy (employing ignorant world building).
>>>> According to the ISFDB, this first appeared in _Swords Against Darkness
>>>> III_, published in 1978 (the only one of that 5 title anthology series
>>>> that I don't have), and the collection _Fantasy_ published by Tor in
>>>> 1981. I reread it recently and I think most of his arguments are still
>>>> appropriate (there has been more examples recently of backgrounds for
>>>> historical fantasy that weren't medieval Europe).
>>>>
>>>
>>> I just re-read this[1], and I agree with you. I also really enjoy the
>>> introductory example of what he's writing about, including the character
>>> names Gnorts, Nialliv, Elamef, and Rehcel.
>>>
>>
>> I must confess that I hadn't noticed until now, the following: "Strong",
>> "Villain", "Female", and "Lecher".
>
> I ron.  :-)
> I'll have to watch out for this Nosredna.
>
That's MISTER Nosredna!

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

On 3/2/24 6:49 PM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
> On 3/2/2024 1:18 PM, Robert Carnegie wrote:
>> On 02/03/2024 05:54, Robert Woodward wrote:
>>> In article <urtlbv$1fan1$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>   Tony Nance <tnusenet17@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2/29/24 1:00 AM, Robert Woodward wrote:
>>>>> I believe that he wrote this because he was concerned about lazy
>>>>> authors
>>>>> writing very bad heroic fantasy (employing ignorant world building).
>>>>> According to the ISFDB, this first appeared in _Swords Against
>>>>> Darkness
>>>>> III_, published in 1978 (the only one of that 5 title anthology series
>>>>> that I don't have), and the collection _Fantasy_ published by Tor in
>>>>> 1981. I reread it recently and I think most of his arguments are still
>>>>> appropriate (there has been more examples recently of backgrounds for
>>>>> historical fantasy that weren't medieval Europe).
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I just re-read this[1], and I agree with you. I also really enjoy the
>>>> introductory example of what he's writing about, including the
>>>> character
>>>> names Gnorts, Nialliv, Elamef, and Rehcel.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I must confess that I hadn't noticed until now, the following: "Strong",
>>> "Villain", "Female", and "Lecher".
>>
>> I ron.  :-)
>> I'll have to watch out for this Nosredna.
>>
> That's MISTER Nosredna!
>

And definitely not RETSIM Nosredna - that would just be silly.

On Mar 3, 2024, Tony Nance wrote
(in article <us265b$2ibu2$4@dont-email.me>):

> On 3/2/24 6:49 PM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
> > On 3/2/2024 1:18 PM, Robert Carnegie wrote:
> > > On 02/03/2024 05:54, Robert Woodward wrote:
> > > > In article<urtlbv$1fan1$1@dont-email.me>,
> > > > Tony Nance <tnusenet17@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On 2/29/24 1:00 AM, Robert Woodward wrote:
> > > > > > I believe that he wrote this because he was concerned about lazy
> > > > > > authors
> > > > > > writing very bad heroic fantasy (employing ignorant world building).
> > > > > > According to the ISFDB, this first appeared in _Swords Against
> > > > > > Darkness
> > > > > > III_, published in 1978 (the only one of that 5 title anthology series
> > > > > > that I don't have), and the collection _Fantasy_ published by Tor in
> > > > > > 1981. I reread it recently and I think most of his arguments are still
> > > > > > appropriate (there has been more examples recently of backgrounds for
> > > > > > historical fantasy that weren't medieval Europe).
> > > > >
> > > > > I just re-read this[1], and I agree with you. I also really enjoy the
> > > > > introductory example of what he's writing about, including the
> > > > > character
> > > > > names Gnorts, Nialliv, Elamef, and Rehcel.
> > > >
> > > > I must confess that I hadn't noticed until now, the following: "Strong",
> > > > "Villain", "Female", and "Lecher".
> > >
> > > I ron. :-)
> > > I'll have to watch out for this Nosredna.
> > That's MISTER Nosredna!
>
> And definitely not RETSIM Nosredna - that would just be silly.

Unless, of course, you’re in the matrix.

Now which colour pill was I supposed to take, again?

In article <0001HW.2B94FE6503385678700000B2638F@news.supernews.com>,
WolfFan <akwolffan@zoho.com> wrote:
>On Mar 3, 2024, Tony Nance wrote
>(in article <us265b$2ibu2$4@dont-email.me>):
>
>> On 3/2/24 6:49 PM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>> > On 3/2/2024 1:18 PM, Robert Carnegie wrote:
>> > > On 02/03/2024 05:54, Robert Woodward wrote:
>> > > > In article<urtlbv$1fan1$1@dont-email.me>,
>> > > > Tony Nance <tnusenet17@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > > On 2/29/24 1:00 AM, Robert Woodward wrote:
>> > > > > > I believe that he wrote this because he was concerned about lazy
>> > > > > > authors
>> > > > > > writing very bad heroic fantasy (employing ignorant world building).
>> > > > > > According to the ISFDB, this first appeared in _Swords Against
>> > > > > > Darkness
>> > > > > > III_, published in 1978 (the only one of that 5 title
>anthology series
>> > > > > > that I don't have), and the collection _Fantasy_ published by Tor in
>> > > > > > 1981. I reread it recently and I think most of his arguments
>are still
>> > > > > > appropriate (there has been more examples recently of
>backgrounds for
>> > > > > > historical fantasy that weren't medieval Europe).
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I just re-read this[1], and I agree with you. I also really enjoy the
>> > > > > introductory example of what he's writing about, including the
>> > > > > character
>> > > > > names Gnorts, Nialliv, Elamef, and Rehcel.
>> > > >
>> > > > I must confess that I hadn't noticed until now, the following: "Strong",
>> > > > "Villain", "Female", and "Lecher".
>> > >
>> > > I ron. :-)
>> > > I'll have to watch out for this Nosredna.
>> > That's MISTER Nosredna!
>>
>> And definitely not RETSIM Nosredna - that would just be silly.
>
>Unless, of course, you’re in the matrix.
>
>Now which colour pill was I supposed to take, again?
>

G'nort is (perhaps was after all the reboots?) a caniform Green Lantern
whom the Guardians keep around for laughs. (But who nonetheless has
does a heroes turn from time to time).
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

On 3/3/2024 10:52 AM, WolfFan wrote:
> On Mar 3, 2024, Tony Nance wrote
> (in article <us265b$2ibu2$4@dont-email.me>):
>
>> On 3/2/24 6:49 PM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>>> On 3/2/2024 1:18 PM, Robert Carnegie wrote:
>>>> On 02/03/2024 05:54, Robert Woodward wrote:
>>>>> In article<urtlbv$1fan1$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>>> Tony Nance <tnusenet17@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2/29/24 1:00 AM, Robert Woodward wrote:
>>>>>>> I believe that he wrote this because he was concerned about lazy
>>>>>>> authors
>>>>>>> writing very bad heroic fantasy (employing ignorant world building).
>>>>>>> According to the ISFDB, this first appeared in _Swords Against
>>>>>>> Darkness
>>>>>>> III_, published in 1978 (the only one of that 5 title anthology series
>>>>>>> that I don't have), and the collection _Fantasy_ published by Tor in
>>>>>>> 1981. I reread it recently and I think most of his arguments are still
>>>>>>> appropriate (there has been more examples recently of backgrounds for
>>>>>>> historical fantasy that weren't medieval Europe).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I just re-read this[1], and I agree with you. I also really enjoy the
>>>>>> introductory example of what he's writing about, including the
>>>>>> character
>>>>>> names Gnorts, Nialliv, Elamef, and Rehcel.
>>>>>
>>>>> I must confess that I hadn't noticed until now, the following: "Strong",
>>>>> "Villain", "Female", and "Lecher".
>>>>
>>>> I ron. :-)
>>>> I'll have to watch out for this Nosredna.
>>> That's MISTER Nosredna!
>>
>> And definitely not RETSIM Nosredna - that would just be silly.
>
> Unless, of course, you’re in the matrix.
>
> Now which colour pill was I supposed to take, again?
>
Purple.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

On 01/03/2024 23.54, Robert Woodward wrote:
> In article <urtlbv$1fan1$1@dont-email.me>,
> Tony Nance <tnusenet17@gmail.com> wrote:

>> I just re-read this[1], and I agree with you. I also really enjoy the
>> introductory example of what he's writing about, including the character
>> names Gnorts, Nialliv, Elamef, and Rehcel.
>
> I must confess that I hadn't noticed until now, the following: "Strong",
> "Villain", "Female", and "Lecher".

When I read it, I noticed Gnorts, but none of the others.

--
Michael F. Stemper
If it isn't running programs and it isn't fusing atoms, it's just bending space.