Five SF Strategies for Creating More Land

Make Room! Make Room! Literally.

https://reactormag.com/five-sf-strategies-for-creating-more-land/
--
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James Nicoll wrote:
> Five SF Strategies for Creating More Land
>
> Make Room! Make Room! Literally.
>
> https://reactormag.com/five-sf-strategies-for-creating-more-land/
>

I wonder if Astor knew that the obliquity of the earth changes
naturally. That would have been a fairly recent discovery, though it
would be another decade or more until Ludwig Pilgrim solved the problem
of exactly how it changed over time.

I don't think a zero obliquity world would have quite the positive
effect on the US that Mr Astor's characters are expecting. At a guess,
a narrow strip around 30 latitude would profit, everywhere else things
would be worse.

At a very rough estimate about fifteen million square kilometers of
shelf are exposed for a sea level drop of 120m. However, several
million of these are in the Arctic. Given also that the Laurentide ice
sheet alone was 13 million km in extent and the Fennoscandian a further
seven, plus Siberian ice, (a small amount of this was over what is now
water) and I think it's clear we didn't have more land to live on in the
last ice age.

But it would double the size of Florida. If that means we get two
Carl Hiassens, that's a plus.

William Hyde

On 2/29/2024 4:45 PM, William Hyde wrote:
> James Nicoll wrote:
>> Five SF Strategies for Creating More Land
>>
>> Make Room! Make Room! Literally.
>>
>> https://reactormag.com/five-sf-strategies-for-creating-more-land/
>>
>
> I wonder if Astor knew that the obliquity of the earth changes
> naturally.  That would have been a fairly recent discovery, though it
> would be another decade or more until Ludwig Pilgrim solved the problem
> of exactly how it changed over time.
>
> I don't think a zero obliquity world would have quite the positive
> effect on the US that Mr Astor's characters are expecting.  At a guess,
> a narrow strip around 30 latitude would profit, everywhere else things
> would be worse.
>
> At a very rough estimate about fifteen million square kilometers of
> shelf are exposed for a sea level drop of 120m.  However, several
> million of these are in the Arctic.  Given also that the Laurentide ice
> sheet alone was 13 million km in extent and the Fennoscandian a further
> seven, plus Siberian ice, (a small amount of this was over what is now
> water) and I think it's clear we didn't have more land to live on in the
> last ice age.
>
> But it would double the size of Florida.  If that means we get two
> Carl Hiassens, that's a plus.

With our luck, we'll get two Piers Anthonys.

Eliminating the Earth's obliquity would also eliminate seasons. The
ecological chaos which would ensue would be remarkable.

As for the shrinking-human method, Colin Kapp's 'Manalone' treads this
exact path.

pt

Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> writes:
>On 2/29/2024 4:45 PM, William Hyde wrote:
>> James Nicoll wrote:
>>> Five SF Strategies for Creating More Land
>>>
>>> Make Room! Make Room! Literally.
>>>
>>> https://reactormag.com/five-sf-strategies-for-creating-more-land/
>>>
>>
>> I wonder if Astor knew that the obliquity of the earth changes
>> naturally.  That would have been a fairly recent discovery, though it
>> would be another decade or more until Ludwig Pilgrim solved the problem
>> of exactly how it changed over time.
>>
>> I don't think a zero obliquity world would have quite the positive
>> effect on the US that Mr Astor's characters are expecting.  At a guess,
>> a narrow strip around 30 latitude would profit, everywhere else things
>> would be worse.
>>
>> At a very rough estimate about fifteen million square kilometers of
>> shelf are exposed for a sea level drop of 120m.  However, several
>> million of these are in the Arctic.  Given also that the Laurentide ice
>> sheet alone was 13 million km in extent and the Fennoscandian a further
>> seven, plus Siberian ice, (a small amount of this was over what is now
>> water) and I think it's clear we didn't have more land to live on in the
>> last ice age.
>>
>> But it would double the size of Florida.  If that means we get two
>> Carl Hiassens, that's a plus.
>
>With our luck, we'll get two Piers Anthonys.

Or two DeSantis, forfend!

Hiassen did coin the term "Florida Man", IIRC.

On 3/1/2024 8:46 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> writes:
>> On 2/29/2024 4:45 PM, William Hyde wrote:
>>> James Nicoll wrote:
>>>> Five SF Strategies for Creating More Land
>>>>
>>>> Make Room! Make Room! Literally.
>>>>
>>>> https://reactormag.com/five-sf-strategies-for-creating-more-land/
>>>>
>>>
>>> I wonder if Astor knew that the obliquity of the earth changes
>>> naturally.  That would have been a fairly recent discovery, though it
>>> would be another decade or more until Ludwig Pilgrim solved the problem
>>> of exactly how it changed over time.
>>>
>>> I don't think a zero obliquity world would have quite the positive
>>> effect on the US that Mr Astor's characters are expecting.  At a guess,
>>> a narrow strip around 30 latitude would profit, everywhere else things
>>> would be worse.
>>>
>>> At a very rough estimate about fifteen million square kilometers of
>>> shelf are exposed for a sea level drop of 120m.  However, several
>>> million of these are in the Arctic.  Given also that the Laurentide ice
>>> sheet alone was 13 million km in extent and the Fennoscandian a further
>>> seven, plus Siberian ice, (a small amount of this was over what is now
>>> water) and I think it's clear we didn't have more land to live on in the
>>> last ice age.
>>>
>>> But it would double the size of Florida.  If that means we get two
>>> Carl Hiassens, that's a plus.
>>
>> With our luck, we'll get two Piers Anthonys.
>
> Or two DeSantis, forfend!
>
I had been resisting the urge to say that....

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

Dimensional Traveler wrote:
> On 3/1/2024 8:46 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> writes:
>>> On 2/29/2024 4:45 PM, William Hyde wrote:
>>>> James Nicoll wrote:
>>>>> Five SF Strategies for Creating More Land
>>>>>
>>>>> Make Room! Make Room! Literally.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://reactormag.com/five-sf-strategies-for-creating-more-land/
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I wonder if Astor knew that the obliquity of the earth changes
>>>> naturally.  That would have been a fairly recent discovery, though it
>>>> would be another decade or more until Ludwig Pilgrim solved the problem
>>>> of exactly how it changed over time.
>>>>
>>>> I don't think a zero obliquity world would have quite the positive
>>>> effect on the US that Mr Astor's characters are expecting.  At a guess,
>>>> a narrow strip around 30 latitude would profit, everywhere else things
>>>> would be worse.
>>>>
>>>> At a very rough estimate about fifteen million square kilometers of
>>>> shelf are exposed for a sea level drop of 120m.  However, several
>>>> million of these are in the Arctic.  Given also that the Laurentide ice
>>>> sheet alone was 13 million km in extent and the Fennoscandian a further
>>>> seven, plus Siberian ice, (a small amount of this was over what is now
>>>> water) and I think it's clear we didn't have more land to live on in
>>>> the
>>>> last ice age.
>>>>
>>>> But it would double the size of Florida.  If that means we get two
>>>> Carl Hiassens, that's a plus.
>>>
>>> With our luck, we'll get two Piers Anthonys.
>>
>> Or two DeSantis, forfend!
>>
> I had been resisting the urge to say that....

I was trying to look at the positive side. Just as I skimmed over just
how terrible a zero-obliquity world would be. Obliquity is our friend.

William Hyde

On 2/29/24 3:41 PM, James Nicoll wrote:
> Five SF Strategies for Creating More Land
>
> Make Room! Make Room! Literally.
>
> https://reactormag.com/five-sf-strategies-for-creating-more-land/

Blish's Surface Tension has smaller people of course. And Banks did a
Shellworld with whole lots of shells - aha, someone in your comments[1]
nicely reminds me it is Matter.

Related to Shellworlds, digging down is a way to create more land area -
underground cities and civilizations, tunneling, hollowing out an
asteroid ....

Tony
[1] Where I also see a mention of the Blish story.

On Thu, 29 Feb 2024 20:41:03 -0000 (UTC), jdnicoll@panix.com (James
Nicoll) wrote:

>https://reactormag.com/five-sf-strategies-for-creating-more-land/

You might well "prefer a positive perspective"... given the change in
contemporary standards from those of the nineteenth century, and the
comparison between Astor's personal life and the fate of Marla Maples.

On Thu, 29 Feb 2024 16:45:51 -0500, William Hyde
<wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:

>I wonder if Astor knew that the obliquity of the earth changes
>naturally.

I wouldn't know about that, but the project he proposed in jest in his
book was proposed in earnest on USENET by the late mathematician
Alexander Abian for a while.

John Savard

It was intieresting that you mentioned a Marvel comic featuring Thanos
when discussing "smaller people" as a solution.

Another reference to shrinking people in Marvel Comics that was more
germane than Ant-Man took place in an early issue of the Fantastic
Four.

"There was no enlarging gas, Sue, but in our vast Universe, one's size
is only relative..."

Fantastic Four #7, where the FF is kidnapped by Kurrgo, ruler of
Planet X. Who ends up dying "for an empty dream".

But what came to my mind was a more direct presentation of shrinking
the Earth's populatioin as an answer to the population crisis... which
was presented in the newspaper comic Lil' Abner. A panel showed
someone driving around in a wind-up toy car, but I can't find
immediately information to identify and date the strip.

John Savard wrote:
> On Thu, 29 Feb 2024 16:45:51 -0500, William Hyde
> <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I wonder if Astor knew that the obliquity of the earth changes
>> naturally.
>
> I wouldn't know about that, but the project he proposed in jest in his
> book was proposed in earnest on USENET by the late mathematician
> Alexander Abian for a while.

I see he wanted to destroy the moon so as to reduce obliquity, and
compared himself to Galileo.

Interesting that a mathematician couldn't be motivated to do the math.

The required math for computing this sort of thing can be found in
Goldstein's "Classical Mechanics", a third year text at U of Toronto.

William Hyde

John Savard <quadibloc@servername.invalid> wrote:
>On Thu, 29 Feb 2024 16:45:51 -0500, William Hyde
><wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>I wonder if Astor knew that the obliquity of the earth changes
>>naturally.
>
>I wouldn't know about that, but the project he proposed in jest in his
>book was proposed in earnest on USENET by the late mathematician
>Alexander Abian for a while.

If you convert properly to Abian units, everything changes naturally.
Be sure to employ the Abian mass-time equivalence formula.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On 3/3/2024 5:15 PM, William Hyde wrote:
> John Savard wrote:
>> On Thu, 29 Feb 2024 16:45:51 -0500, William Hyde
>> <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I wonder if Astor knew that the obliquity of the earth changes
>>> naturally.
>>
>> I wouldn't know about that, but the project he proposed in jest in his
>> book was proposed in earnest on USENET by the late mathematician
>> Alexander Abian for a while.
>
> I see he wanted to destroy the moon so as to reduce obliquity, and
> compared himself to Galileo.
>
> Interesting that a mathematician couldn't be motivated to do the math.
>
> The required math for computing this sort of thing can be found in
> Goldstein's "Classical Mechanics", a third year text at U of Toronto.

Quite aside from a 2/3 reduction in tides screwing up a vast number of
lifeforms, the moon is also thought to take part in stabilizing Earth's
magnetic field. Moonlight is also important in many creatures cycles.

Getting rid of it would cause problems.

pt

On 04/03/2024 18:05, Cryptoengineer wrote:
> On 3/3/2024 5:15 PM, William Hyde wrote:
>> John Savard wrote:
>>> On Thu, 29 Feb 2024 16:45:51 -0500, William Hyde
>>> <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I wonder if Astor knew that the obliquity of the earth changes
>>>> naturally.
>>>
>>> I wouldn't know about that, but the project he proposed in jest in his
>>> book was proposed in earnest on USENET by the late mathematician
>>> Alexander Abian for a while.
>>
>> I see he wanted to destroy the moon so as to reduce obliquity, and
>> compared himself to Galileo.
>>
>> Interesting that a mathematician couldn't be motivated to do the math.
>>
>> The required math for computing this sort of thing can be found in
>> Goldstein's "Classical Mechanics", a third year text at U of Toronto.
>
> Quite aside from a 2/3 reduction in tides screwing up a vast number of
> lifeforms, the moon is also thought to take part in stabilizing Earth's
> magnetic field. Moonlight is also important in many creatures cycles.
>
>
> Getting rid of it would cause problems.

The magnetic field, how - never mind.
It's not likely that I'll understand if you
tell me. But it still sounds... unfamiliar.

This suggests that planets without big
moons have a bigger cosmic radiation problem
and are less habitable than Earth for that
reason. But the obliquity problem may be
the greater challenge for long term life.
I'm thinking about origin and evolution
of native alien life, not colonisation
by us. But neither is a good bet.

On 3/8/2024 4:38 AM, Robert Carnegie wrote:
> On 04/03/2024 18:05, Cryptoengineer wrote:
>> On 3/3/2024 5:15 PM, William Hyde wrote:
>>> John Savard wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 29 Feb 2024 16:45:51 -0500, William Hyde
>>>> <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I wonder if Astor knew that the obliquity of the earth changes
>>>>> naturally.
>>>>
>>>> I wouldn't know about that, but the project he proposed in jest in his
>>>> book was proposed in earnest on USENET by the late mathematician
>>>> Alexander Abian for a while.
>>>
>>> I see he wanted to destroy the moon so as to reduce obliquity, and
>>> compared himself to Galileo.
>>>
>>> Interesting that a mathematician couldn't be motivated to do the math.
>>>
>>> The required math for computing this sort of thing can be found in
>>> Goldstein's "Classical Mechanics", a third year text at U of Toronto.
>>
>> Quite aside from a 2/3 reduction in tides screwing up a vast number of
>> lifeforms, the moon is also thought to take part in stabilizing Earth's
>> magnetic field. Moonlight is also important in many creatures cycles.
>>
>>
>> Getting rid of it would cause problems.
>
> The magnetic field, how - never mind.
> It's not likely that I'll understand if you
> tell me.  But it still sounds...  unfamiliar.

I got that from a line in Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon#Tidal_effects

It references an article in BBC 'Sky at Night'

https://www.skyatnightmagazine.com/news/is-the-moon-maintaining-earths-magnetism

which references "Researchers from the National Center for
Scientific Research (CNRS)", but without a citation.

TLDNR: Tidal effects help keep the outer core churning.

I also recall reading a claim that the Moon stabilizes
earth's obliquity, by pulling on the equatorial bulge.
I couldn't' find a reference to point to, so I left that
out.

pt

On 02/03/2024 08.02, Tony Nance wrote:
> On 2/29/24 3:41 PM, James Nicoll wrote:
>> Five SF Strategies for Creating More Land
>>
>> Make Room! Make Room! Literally.
>>
>> https://reactormag.com/five-sf-strategies-for-creating-more-land/
>
> Blish's Surface Tension has smaller people of course.

I thought of smaller people before I even got to that part of the
essay, but with a different story. Robert Bloch's "This Crowded
Earth"[1] started as (as one might expect given the title) as an
overpopulation nightmare, but then took a sharp turn into different
issues. It's also where I became aware of the idea of a C-section.

[1] <https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?8431>

--
Michael F. Stemper
No animals were harmed in the composition of this message.

On 3/11/24 11:23 AM, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
> On 02/03/2024 08.02, Tony Nance wrote:
>> On 2/29/24 3:41 PM, James Nicoll wrote:
>>> Five SF Strategies for Creating More Land
>>>
>>> Make Room! Make Room! Literally.
>>>
>>> https://reactormag.com/five-sf-strategies-for-creating-more-land/
>>
>> Blish's Surface Tension has smaller people of course.
>
> I thought of smaller people before I even got to that part of the
> essay, but with a different story. Robert Bloch's "This Crowded
> Earth"[1] started as (as one might expect given the title) as an
> overpopulation nightmare, but then took a sharp turn into different
> issues. It's also where I became aware of the idea of a C-section.
>
>
> [1] <https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?8431>
>

Interesting! This story is not in my one-and-only Bloch collection. I'll
have to track it down- thanks.

Tony