YASID "Sci-fi Books, Humans with Animal genes/modifications?"
https://www.reddit.com/r/printSF/comments/1bcw0l7/scifi_books_humans_with_animal_genesmodifications/

"I read a book maybe 10 years or more ago, set in a future where
humanity had played with gene splicing/gene therapy to the point where
it was entirely common to see people with animal attributes. There was a
whole community of peoples who had Cat/Lion genes who had some feline
features and some of their agility, people with snake genes that had
some scaled patterns on their skin and had sensuous, smooth movements,
and so on. I’ve been trying to find this book for YEARS, but I have no
idea what it was called and can’t really remember the plot except that
there was a conflict between “normal” humans and those who had their
genes modified. Any help, suggestions, or even recommendations about
similar books?"

Lynn

On 3/14/2024 11:52 AM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> YASID "Sci-fi Books, Humans with Animal genes/modifications?"
>
> https://www.reddit.com/r/printSF/comments/1bcw0l7/scifi_books_humans_with_animal_genesmodifications/
>
> "I read a book maybe 10 years or more ago, set in a future where
> humanity had played with gene splicing/gene therapy to the point where
> it was entirely common to see people with animal attributes. There was a
> whole community of peoples who had Cat/Lion genes who had some feline
> features and some of their agility, people with snake genes that had
> some scaled patterns on their skin and had sensuous, smooth movements,
> and so on. I’ve been trying to find this book for YEARS, but I have no
> idea what it was called and can’t really remember the plot except that
> there was a conflict between “normal” humans and those who had their
> genes modified. Any help, suggestions, or even recommendations about
> similar books?"
>
Is this to specifically exclude uplifted animals to human level sentience?

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

On 3/14/24 2:52 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> YASID "Sci-fi Books, Humans with Animal genes/modifications?"
>
> https://www.reddit.com/r/printSF/comments/1bcw0l7/scifi_books_humans_with_animal_genesmodifications/
>
> "I read a book maybe 10 years or more ago, set in a future where
> humanity had played with gene splicing/gene therapy to the point where
> it was entirely common to see people with animal attributes. There was a
> whole community of peoples who had Cat/Lion genes who had some feline
> features and some of their agility, people with snake genes that had
> some scaled patterns on their skin and had sensuous, smooth movements,
> and so on. I’ve been trying to find this book for YEARS, but I have no
> idea what it was called and can’t really remember the plot except that
> there was a conflict between “normal” humans and those who had their
> genes modified. Any help, suggestions, or even recommendations about
> similar books?"
>
> Lynn

Did they already rule out Cordwainer Smith's Underpeople stories? I
don't remember much about snake people, but there were cat people (like
C'Mell), and dog-people (like D'Joan), and bovine people (like B'dikkat).

Tony

On 3/14/2024 2:18 PM, Tony Nance wrote:
> On 3/14/24 2:52 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> YASID "Sci-fi Books, Humans with Animal genes/modifications?"
>>
>> https://www.reddit.com/r/printSF/comments/1bcw0l7/scifi_books_humans_with_animal_genesmodifications/
>>
>> "I read a book maybe 10 years or more ago, set in a future where
>> humanity had played with gene splicing/gene therapy to the point where
>> it was entirely common to see people with animal attributes. There was
>> a whole community of peoples who had Cat/Lion genes who had some
>> feline features and some of their agility, people with snake genes
>> that had some scaled patterns on their skin and had sensuous, smooth
>> movements, and so on. I’ve been trying to find this book for YEARS,
>> but I have no idea what it was called and can’t really remember the
>> plot except that there was a conflict between “normal” humans and
>> those who had their genes modified. Any help, suggestions, or even
>> recommendations about similar books?"
>>
>> Lynn
>
> Did they already rule out Cordwainer Smith's Underpeople stories? I
> don't remember much about snake people, but there were cat people (like
> C'Mell), and dog-people (like D'Joan), and bovine people (like B'dikkat).
>
> Tony

The reddit thread covers this.

Thanks,
Lynn

On 3/14/2024 2:14 PM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
> On 3/14/2024 11:52 AM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> YASID "Sci-fi Books, Humans with Animal genes/modifications?"
>>
>> https://www.reddit.com/r/printSF/comments/1bcw0l7/scifi_books_humans_with_animal_genesmodifications/
>>
>> "I read a book maybe 10 years or more ago, set in a future where
>> humanity had played with gene splicing/gene therapy to the point where
>> it was entirely common to see people with animal attributes. There was
>> a whole community of peoples who had Cat/Lion genes who had some
>> feline features and some of their agility, people with snake genes
>> that had some scaled patterns on their skin and had sensuous, smooth
>> movements, and so on. I’ve been trying to find this book for YEARS,
>> but I have no idea what it was called and can’t really remember the
>> plot except that there was a conflict between “normal” humans and
>> those who had their genes modified. Any help, suggestions, or even
>> recommendations about similar books?"
>>
> Is this to specifically exclude uplifted animals to human level sentience?

The reddit thread covers this.

Thanks,
Lynn

On 3/14/2024 12:27 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> On 3/14/2024 2:14 PM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>> On 3/14/2024 11:52 AM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>> YASID "Sci-fi Books, Humans with Animal genes/modifications?"
>>>
>>> https://www.reddit.com/r/printSF/comments/1bcw0l7/scifi_books_humans_with_animal_genesmodifications/
>>>
>>> "I read a book maybe 10 years or more ago, set in a future where
>>> humanity had played with gene splicing/gene therapy to the point
>>> where it was entirely common to see people with animal attributes.
>>> There was a whole community of peoples who had Cat/Lion genes who had
>>> some feline features and some of their agility, people with snake
>>> genes that had some scaled patterns on their skin and had sensuous,
>>> smooth movements, and so on. I’ve been trying to find this book for
>>> YEARS, but I have no idea what it was called and can’t really
>>> remember the plot except that there was a conflict between “normal”
>>> humans and those who had their genes modified. Any help, suggestions,
>>> or even recommendations about similar books?"
>>>
>> Is this to specifically exclude uplifted animals to human level
>> sentience?
>
> The reddit thread covers this.
>
I don't read Reddit.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

On 14/03/2024 18:52, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> YASID "Sci-fi Books, Humans with Animal genes/modifications?"
>
> https://www.reddit.com/r/printSF/comments/1bcw0l7/scifi_books_humans_with_animal_genesmodifications/
>
> "I read a book maybe 10 years or more ago, set in a future where
> humanity had played with gene splicing/gene therapy to the point where
> it was entirely common to see people with animal attributes. There was a
> whole community of peoples who had Cat/Lion genes who had some feline
> features and some of their agility, people with snake genes that had
> some scaled patterns on their skin and had sensuous, smooth movements,
> and so on. I’ve been trying to find this book for YEARS, but I have no
> idea what it was called and can’t really remember the plot except that
> there was a conflict between “normal” humans and those who had their
> genes modified. Any help, suggestions, or even recommendations about
> similar books?"

I don't have an answer and I'm hesitating
to create a reddit account, I see it as
something that happens to other people.
But I'd ask whether this is a "young adult"
reader book (and we could debate which
stories since Dr. Moreau quality), and
also whether this is about being born
with animal traits, or about getting a
treatment as a teenager or an adult.

It's extremely unlikely to be
Ben Aaronovitch's _Moon Over Soho_ (2011),
in which, happily as a minor theme,
animal-hybrid people have been devised
by an evil sex magician. One appears
as the magician's henchman.

On 3/15/2024 12:38 PM, Robert Carnegie wrote:
> On 14/03/2024 18:52, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> YASID "Sci-fi Books, Humans with Animal genes/modifications?"
>>
>> https://www.reddit.com/r/printSF/comments/1bcw0l7/scifi_books_humans_with_animal_genesmodifications/
>>
>> "I read a book maybe 10 years or more ago, set in a future where
>> humanity had played with gene splicing/gene therapy to the point where
>> it was entirely common to see people with animal attributes. There was
>> a whole community of peoples who had Cat/Lion genes who had some
>> feline features and some of their agility, people with snake genes
>> that had some scaled patterns on their skin and had sensuous, smooth
>> movements, and so on. I’ve been trying to find this book for YEARS,
>> but I have no idea what it was called and can’t really remember the
>> plot except that there was a conflict between “normal” humans and
>> those who had their genes modified. Any help, suggestions, or even
>> recommendations about similar books?"
>
> I don't have an answer and I'm hesitating
> to create a reddit account, I see it as
> something that happens to other people.
> But I'd ask whether this is a "young adult"
> reader book (and we could debate which
> stories since Dr. Moreau quality), and
> also whether this is about being born
> with animal traits, or about getting a
> treatment as a teenager or an adult.
>
> It's extremely unlikely to be
> Ben Aaronovitch's _Moon Over Soho_ (2011),
> in which, happily as a minor theme,
> animal-hybrid people have been devised
> by an evil sex magician.  One appears
> as the magician's henchman.

Can you not see Reddit posts without creating an account ?

Lynn

On 3/14/2024 7:25 PM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
> On 3/14/2024 12:27 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> On 3/14/2024 2:14 PM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>>> On 3/14/2024 11:52 AM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>> YASID "Sci-fi Books, Humans with Animal genes/modifications?"
>>>>
>>>> https://www.reddit.com/r/printSF/comments/1bcw0l7/scifi_books_humans_with_animal_genesmodifications/
>>>>
>>>> "I read a book maybe 10 years or more ago, set in a future where
>>>> humanity had played with gene splicing/gene therapy to the point
>>>> where it was entirely common to see people with animal attributes.
>>>> There was a whole community of peoples who had Cat/Lion genes who
>>>> had some feline features and some of their agility, people with
>>>> snake genes that had some scaled patterns on their skin and had
>>>> sensuous, smooth movements, and so on. I’ve been trying to find this
>>>> book for YEARS, but I have no idea what it was called and can’t
>>>> really remember the plot except that there was a conflict between
>>>> “normal” humans and those who had their genes modified. Any help,
>>>> suggestions, or even recommendations about similar books?"
>>>>
>>> Is this to specifically exclude uplifted animals to human level
>>> sentience?
>>
>> The reddit thread covers this.
>>
> I don't read Reddit.

Here are the comments to date (what a mess !):

Cordwainer Smith's Ballad of Lost C'Mell and Norstrilia, perhaps?
14
User avatar
level 1
Bioceramic
·
3 days ago
· edited 3 days ago

This could be describing the Ousters from Dan Simmons' Hyperion series.
Plus one of the main characters spent a few years as a goat man.
14
User avatar
level 1
Xeelee1123
·
3 days ago

Could it be S. Andrew Swann´s Moreau Series?
11
User avatar
level 1
volunteeroranje
·
3 days ago

Some of the revelation space universe (most The Prefect series and Chasm
city) have similar descriptors and stuff. Not sure it’s central enough
for your description but it’s present at least.
9 User avatar
level 2
Outrageous_Reach_695
·
3 days ago

Thanks! Chasm City is the one I was trying to suggest in my response.
3 User avatar
level 1
Bleatbleatbang
·
3 days ago
· edited 3 days ago

2312 by Kim Stanley Robinson.
Main character has cat genes and can purr.
5 User avatar
level 1
ShadowFlux85
·
3 days ago

Not your book but some similar ideas in Adrian Tzaikovsky's works, both
in children of time later books and the shadows of the apt series
7 User avatar
level 1
dblowe
·
3 days ago

Sounds a lot like Cordwainer Smith’s”Underpeople”
5 User avatar
level 1
stimpakish
·
3 days ago

Another vote for Cordwainer Smith's works others mentioned.

There are also similar elements in Linda Nagata's Bohr Maker (and
series), to name one that hasn't been metioned yet.
5 User avatar
level 1
Ravenloff
·
3 days ago

SM Stirling's Draka (drakensis sapien) used a little bit of this and
that from terrestrial animals when they completely remade themselves
genetically. Being a slave-owning "race", they were able to completely
outpace western democracies in the biological sciences because they
didn't shy away from human testing at all. Got a serf that's giving your
plantation trouble? Send that tool-that-thinks to the Security Directorate.

The Draka books were amazingly well-written. A trilogy that basically
sees a cold war from what we would consider as the objectively evil side
of things. He followed that with the Nantucketer trilogy and for a while
there I was willing to buy anything with his name as the author. After
the first three books of the emberverse, though...kinda soured on him. I
think he was making up for perceived liberties taken with the Draka books.
4 User avatar
level 2
FTLast
·
3 days ago

Don’t give up on Mr Stirling entirely. The Peshawar Lancers is quite
good, as are the two The Sky People books. The Black Chamber books have
been quite entertaining as well.
5 User avatar
level 3
Ravenloff
·
3 days ago

Read those, of course! And agreed though I wish the Lords of Creation
had been finished. The endless and off the rails emberverse did me in
though. All that build up...zero payoff.
3 User avatar
level 4
FTLast
·
2 days ago

Yeah, I gave up on those, too. Stirling has a couple of hobbyhorses-
food, martial arts and lesbians- that he overdoes. Throw in Wiccans… ugh.
3 User avatar
level 5
Ravenloff
·
2 days ago

I'm glad you mentioned food, lol. His lists of food became ubertolkein.
Personally, I think he got a lot of flak for the main protagonists in
Stone Dogs and Drakan, tried to make up with Marion Alston/Swindapa in
the Nantucketer trilogy, and then just kept going in that direction. I
actually have had a couple of conversations with him, both online and in
person, and we didn't agree either time :)
2 level 2
codejockblue5
·
3 days ago

There are five Draka books in total. The fourth book, Drakon, is the
best. And the scariest with all of the genetic modifications finished in
their universe.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0671877119/
4 User avatar
level 3
Ravenloff
·
3 days ago

Four novels, one omnibus, and a collection of shared universe shorts.
What am I missing?
3 level 4
codejockblue5
·
3 days ago

You got them all. I did not even know about the omnibus. The fifth book
is a book of short stories.
2 User avatar
level 5
Ravenloff
·
3 days ago

When I say he was my favoirte author, I meant it :) I talked my wife
into spending our 10th anniversary on Nantucket so I could visit the
sites mentioned in the trilogy. But I have to say again...was.
2 level 6
codejockblue5
·
3 days ago

Why was ?

David Weber is my favorite author with Robert Heinlein almost a photo
finish with him. Then there is a quite a few with S. M. Stirling in the
bunch along with Alan Dean Foster, John Varley, Martha Wells, Seanan
McGuire, Lois McMaster Bujold, Steven Gould, John Ringo, Larry Correia,
Andy Weir, Faith Hunter, etc.
1 User avatar
level 7
Ravenloff
·
2 days ago

No Peter F Hamilton?? If you liked 90's/2000's Stirling, you would
probably love PFH. Start with Pandora's Star and Judas Unchained. I've
definitely read me some Weber and strapped in for the entire Safehold
series, but honestly...it's artillery porn with a huge cast ;) Would
love for him to finish the Hell's Gate series. I only remember seeing
two books there and no finale. I've got writer friends that collaborate
with him here and there so I keep up to date. Can honestly say, though,
while I do enjoy a lot of his work, I could never get into the
Honorverse. No idea why.
2 User avatar
level 7
Ravenloff
·
2 days ago

Oh...and to answer your question...he just leaned way too heavily into
dead end story arcs and even with my ample suspension of disbelief, made
choices, especially in the emberverse, that I just couldn't get beyond.
Mainly the massive build-up to zero payoff thing, and then it
just...kept...going...no thanks.
2 level 8
codejockblue5
·
2 days ago

For instance, I loved the first four books of The Emberverse (Dies The
Fire) series. The next 5 or 6 ??? books, not so much. I have the next
two books in my SBR.
2 User avatar
level 9
Ravenloff
·
2 days ago

I got through their trip to Nantucket and back so I think that was six
total. Didn't see any reason to continue after that.
2 User avatar
level 1
ImaginaryEvents
·
3 days ago

I have a vague memory of a pantheroid as the best friend of a mc, maybe
in the "Jak Jinnaka" series by John Barnes starting with The Duke of
Uranium (2002)
4 User avatar
level 1
MegC18
·
3 days ago

Lois McMaster Bujold’s Vorkosigan saga has a teenage mercenary with
feline genes
3 level 2
codejockblue5
·
3 days ago

I thought Tara had wolf genes ???
3 User avatar
level 1
tegeus-Cromis_2000
·
3 days ago

As others have suggested, Cordwainer Smith is the closest fit. There's
also Brian Aldiss's An Island Called Moreau.
4 User avatar
level 1
Bquestnow
·
3 days ago

Gridlinked by Neal Asher
3 User avatar
level 2
AlwaysSayHi
·
3 days ago

The various 'adapts show up even more as the series goes on.
3 User avatar
level 1
Outrageous_Reach_695
·
3 days ago

Were combat enhancements illegal?

Did one of the main characters have some sort of ocular upgrades?

(Also not pulling a title up for the book I'm thinking of. Thought it
was something to do with 'rift', but that's a dead end.)
3
Click here to read the complete article

Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
>On 3/15/2024 12:38 PM, Robert Carnegie wrote:
>> On 14/03/2024 18:52, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>> YASID "Sci-fi Books, Humans with Animal genes/modifications?"
>>>
>>> https://www.reddit.com/r/printSF/comments/1bcw0l7/scifi_books_humans_with_animal_genesmodifications/
>>>
>>> "I read a book maybe 10 years or more ago, set in a future where
>>> humanity had played with gene splicing/gene therapy to the point where
>>> it was entirely common to see people with animal attributes. There was
>>> a whole community of peoples who had Cat/Lion genes who had some
>>> feline features and some of their agility, people with snake genes
>>> that had some scaled patterns on their skin and had sensuous, smooth
>>> movements, and so on. I’ve been trying to find this book for YEARS,
>>> but I have no idea what it was called and can’t really remember the
>>> plot except that there was a conflict between “normal” humans and
>>> those who had their genes modified. Any help, suggestions, or even
>>> recommendations about similar books?"
>>
>> I don't have an answer and I'm hesitating
>> to create a reddit account, I see it as
>> something that happens to other people.
>> But I'd ask whether this is a "young adult"
>> reader book (and we could debate which
>> stories since Dr. Moreau quality), and
>> also whether this is about being born
>> with animal traits, or about getting a
>> treatment as a teenager or an adult.
>>
>> It's extremely unlikely to be
>> Ben Aaronovitch's _Moon Over Soho_ (2011),
>> in which, happily as a minor theme,
>> animal-hybrid people have been devised
>> by an evil sex magician.  One appears
>> as the magician's henchman.
>
>Can you not see Reddit posts without creating an account ?

You must be signed in to 'answer', which is what Robert said above.

Personally, I have no interest in reddit, with or without an account.

On 3/15/2024 5:38 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
>> On 3/15/2024 12:38 PM, Robert Carnegie wrote:
>>> On 14/03/2024 18:52, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>> YASID "Sci-fi Books, Humans with Animal genes/modifications?"
>>>>
>>>> https://www.reddit.com/r/printSF/comments/1bcw0l7/scifi_books_humans_with_animal_genesmodifications/
>>>>
>>>> "I read a book maybe 10 years or more ago, set in a future where
>>>> humanity had played with gene splicing/gene therapy to the point where
>>>> it was entirely common to see people with animal attributes. There was
>>>> a whole community of peoples who had Cat/Lion genes who had some
>>>> feline features and some of their agility, people with snake genes
>>>> that had some scaled patterns on their skin and had sensuous, smooth
>>>> movements, and so on. I’ve been trying to find this book for YEARS,
>>>> but I have no idea what it was called and can’t really remember the
>>>> plot except that there was a conflict between “normal” humans and
>>>> those who had their genes modified. Any help, suggestions, or even
>>>> recommendations about similar books?"
>>>
>>> I don't have an answer and I'm hesitating
>>> to create a reddit account, I see it as
>>> something that happens to other people.
>>> But I'd ask whether this is a "young adult"
>>> reader book (and we could debate which
>>> stories since Dr. Moreau quality), and
>>> also whether this is about being born
>>> with animal traits, or about getting a
>>> treatment as a teenager or an adult.
>>>
>>> It's extremely unlikely to be
>>> Ben Aaronovitch's _Moon Over Soho_ (2011),
>>> in which, happily as a minor theme,
>>> animal-hybrid people have been devised
>>> by an evil sex magician.  One appears
>>> as the magician's henchman.
>>
>> Can you not see Reddit posts without creating an account ?
>
> You must be signed in to 'answer', which is what Robert said above.
>
> Personally, I have no interest in reddit, with or without an account.

I honestly find the reddit-hate on usenet a bit dissapointing. Perhaps
because its the closest thing to usenet, but is not usenet.

It does have problems; in particular, the management is in the process
of platform enshittification - moving from pleasing users on to
pleasing advertisers. The step after that is pleasing investors,
followed by platform death.

But its still not bad. You don't need an account to read. You DO need
one to reply, but you can set up one WITHOUT SUPPLYING AN EMAIL. No
personally identifying info need be supplied. The registration page
will ask for an email page, but you can leave it blank.

pt

In article <ut2mqq$2hcnb$1@dont-email.me>,
Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
>But its still not bad. You don't need an account to read [reddit].

Actually, you do, if you happen to be on an IP address that the
management have arbitrarily decided to ban.

-GAWollman

--
Garrett A. Wollman | "Act to avoid constraining the future; if you can,
wollman@bimajority.org| act to remove constraint from the future. This is
Opinions not shared by| a thing you can do, are able to do, to do together."
my employers. | - Graydon Saunders, _A Succession of Bad Days_ (2015)

On 3/15/2024 7:49 PM, Cryptoengineer wrote:
> On 3/15/2024 5:38 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
[snip-snip]
>> Personally, I have no interest in reddit, with or without an account.
>
> I honestly find the reddit-hate on usenet a bit dissapointing. Perhaps
> because its the closest thing to usenet, but is not usenet. [snip]

It's true that Reddit is a collection of "subreddits" the way Usenet is
a collection of "newsgroups". However, there are certain differences:

1. All subreddits are moderated, which, as anyone who has had to deal
with moderated newsgroups knows, is a double-edged sword. Reddit admins
also function as site-wide super-moderators and can ban Reddit account.

2. Subreddit moderators have to follow site-wide Reddit content
policies, which have been known to change. To quote
https://www.redditinc.com/policies/moderator-code-of-conduct , "your
subreddit and moderator team can be held accountable for individual
moderator actions".

3. Reddit has a "karma" system, which is based on other users upvoting
or downvoting your posts and comments. Some subreddits require a certain
amount of positive Reddit-wide karma to post and/or to comment. Reddit
also requires a certain amount of karma to create new subreddits.

4. Usenet clients are generally more robust than the default Reddit user
interface. However, certain add-ons like "Reddit Enhancement Suite"
(RES) provide additional functionality which is comparable to and
sometimes even superior to what you will find in a typical Usenet
client. I find the Reddit Enhancement Suite indispensable -- reading
Reddit without it is painful.

5. Usenet newsgroups are hierarchical -- "rec.arts.sf.written" -- which
facilitates discovery. Subreddits are less structured.

6. Curiously, Reddit spam is becoming more of an issue now that Large
Language Models are better at impersonating humans.

On 3/15/2024 8:57 PM, Ahasuerus wrote:
> On 3/15/2024 7:49 PM, Cryptoengineer wrote:
>> On 3/15/2024 5:38 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> [snip-snip]
>>> Personally, I have no interest in reddit, with or without an account.
>>
>> I honestly find the reddit-hate on usenet a bit dissapointing. Perhaps
>> because its the closest thing to usenet, but is not usenet. [snip]
>
> It's true that Reddit is a collection of "subreddits" the way Usenet is
> a collection of "newsgroups". However, there are certain differences:
>
> 1. All subreddits are moderated, which, as anyone who has had to deal
> with moderated newsgroups knows, is a double-edged sword. Reddit admins
> also function as site-wide super-moderators and can ban Reddit account.
>
> 2. Subreddit moderators have to follow site-wide Reddit content
> policies, which have been known to change. To quote
> https://www.redditinc.com/policies/moderator-code-of-conduct , "your
> subreddit and moderator team can be held accountable for individual
> moderator actions".
>
> 3. Reddit has a "karma" system, which is based on other users upvoting
> or downvoting your posts and comments. Some subreddits require a certain
> amount of positive Reddit-wide karma to post and/or to comment. Reddit
> also requires a certain amount of karma to create new subreddits.
>
> 4. Usenet clients are generally more robust than the default Reddit user
> interface. However, certain add-ons like "Reddit Enhancement Suite"
> (RES) provide additional functionality which is comparable to and
> sometimes even superior to what you will find in a typical Usenet
> client. I find the Reddit Enhancement Suite indispensable -- reading
> Reddit without it is painful.
>
> 5. Usenet newsgroups are hierarchical -- "rec.arts.sf.written" -- which
> facilitates discovery. Subreddits are less structured.
>
> 6. Curiously, Reddit spam is becoming more of an issue now that Large
> Language Models are better at impersonating humans.

I have been accused of being an AI on reddit so many times that one of
the moderators actually rescued me from the pitchfork and torch waving
mob after we exchanged a few emails. They gave me a large amount of
karma which stopped the AI screaming mob.

I hang out on five different reddit groups: r/printSF, r/Cplusplus,
r/fortran, r/dilbert, and r/ChemicalEngineering. r/printSF is
unbelievably busy.

Lynn

On 3/15/2024 6:57 PM, Ahasuerus wrote:
> On 3/15/2024 7:49 PM, Cryptoengineer wrote:
>> On 3/15/2024 5:38 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> [snip-snip]
>>> Personally, I have no interest in reddit, with or without an account.
>>
>> I honestly find the reddit-hate on usenet a bit dissapointing. Perhaps
>> because its the closest thing to usenet, but is not usenet. [snip]
>
> It's true that Reddit is a collection of "subreddits" the way Usenet is
> a collection of "newsgroups". However, there are certain differences:
>
> 1. All subreddits are moderated, which, as anyone who has had to deal
> with moderated newsgroups knows, is a double-edged sword. Reddit admins
> also function as site-wide super-moderators and can ban Reddit account.
>
> 2. Subreddit moderators have to follow site-wide Reddit content
> policies, which have been known to change. To quote
> https://www.redditinc.com/policies/moderator-code-of-conduct , "your
> subreddit and moderator team can be held accountable for individual
> moderator actions".
>
> 3. Reddit has a "karma" system, which is based on other users upvoting
> or downvoting your posts and comments. Some subreddits require a certain
> amount of positive Reddit-wide karma to post and/or to comment. Reddit
> also requires a certain amount of karma to create new subreddits.
>
> 4. Usenet clients are generally more robust than the default Reddit user
> interface. However, certain add-ons like "Reddit Enhancement Suite"
> (RES) provide additional functionality which is comparable to and
> sometimes even superior to what you will find in a typical Usenet
> client. I find the Reddit Enhancement Suite indispensable -- reading
> Reddit without it is painful.
>
> 5. Usenet newsgroups are hierarchical -- "rec.arts.sf.written" -- which
> facilitates discovery. Subreddits are less structured.
>
> 6. Curiously, Reddit spam is becoming more of an issue now that Large
> Language Models are better at impersonating humans.
>
Sounds like "someone" tried to copy or update Usenet to the web. And
failed badly.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

On 2024-03-16, Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
> On 3/15/2024 6:57 PM, Ahasuerus wrote:
>> On 3/15/2024 7:49 PM, Cryptoengineer wrote:
>>> On 3/15/2024 5:38 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> [snip-snip]
>>>> Personally, I have no interest in reddit, with or without an account.
>>>
>>> I honestly find the reddit-hate on usenet a bit dissapointing. Perhaps
>>> because its the closest thing to usenet, but is not usenet. [snip]
>>
>> It's true that Reddit is a collection of "subreddits" the way Usenet is
>> a collection of "newsgroups". However, there are certain differences:
>>
>> 1. All subreddits are moderated, which, as anyone who has had to deal
>> with moderated newsgroups knows, is a double-edged sword. Reddit admins
>> also function as site-wide super-moderators and can ban Reddit account.
>>
>> 2. Subreddit moderators have to follow site-wide Reddit content
>> policies, which have been known to change. To quote
>> https://www.redditinc.com/policies/moderator-code-of-conduct , "your
>> subreddit and moderator team can be held accountable for individual
>> moderator actions".
>>
>> 3. Reddit has a "karma" system, which is based on other users upvoting
>> or downvoting your posts and comments. Some subreddits require a certain
>> amount of positive Reddit-wide karma to post and/or to comment. Reddit
>> also requires a certain amount of karma to create new subreddits.
>>
>> 4. Usenet clients are generally more robust than the default Reddit user
>> interface. However, certain add-ons like "Reddit Enhancement Suite"
>> (RES) provide additional functionality which is comparable to and
>> sometimes even superior to what you will find in a typical Usenet
>> client. I find the Reddit Enhancement Suite indispensable -- reading
>> Reddit without it is painful.
>>
>> 5. Usenet newsgroups are hierarchical -- "rec.arts.sf.written" -- which
>> facilitates discovery. Subreddits are less structured.
>>
>> 6. Curiously, Reddit spam is becoming more of an issue now that Large
>> Language Models are better at impersonating humans.
>>
> Sounds like "someone" tried to copy or update Usenet to the web. And
> failed badly.

How has Reddit failed?

Usenet has failed, as is only proper. It was meant primarily as an
information dissemination mechanism and content control was a much
later secondary consideration. It worked very well as long as it
wasn't popular enough or lucrative enough to attract people wanting to
exploit it. The only reason good corners like this still exist is
that they are unpopular! (We just saw what a single nefarious
individual can do to Usenet.)

I don't participate in any Reddit communities, but I lurk in a couple
and I search it all the time. If I want honest opinions on products
or services or practices, I simply add "reddit" to my search. Much higher
quality than elsewhere. The communities are real.

Chris

On 3/16/2024 12:11 AM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
> On 3/15/2024 6:57 PM, Ahasuerus wrote:
>> On 3/15/2024 7:49 PM, Cryptoengineer wrote:
>>> On 3/15/2024 5:38 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> [snip-snip]
>>>> Personally, I have no interest in reddit, with or without an account.
>>>
>>> I honestly find the reddit-hate on usenet a bit dissapointing. Perhaps
>>> because its the closest thing to usenet, but is not usenet. [snip]
>>
>> It's true that Reddit is a collection of "subreddits" the way Usenet
>> is a collection of "newsgroups". However, there are certain differences:
>>
>> 1. All subreddits are moderated, which, as anyone who has had to deal
>> with moderated newsgroups knows, is a double-edged sword. Reddit
>> admins also function as site-wide super-moderators and can ban Reddit
>> account.
>>
>> 2. Subreddit moderators have to follow site-wide Reddit content
>> policies, which have been known to change. To quote
>> https://www.redditinc.com/policies/moderator-code-of-conduct , "your
>> subreddit and moderator team can be held accountable for individual
>> moderator actions".
>>
>> 3. Reddit has a "karma" system, which is based on other users upvoting
>> or downvoting your posts and comments. Some subreddits require a
>> certain amount of positive Reddit-wide karma to post and/or to
>> comment. Reddit also requires a certain amount of karma to create new
>> subreddits.
>>
>> 4. Usenet clients are generally more robust than the default Reddit
>> user interface. However, certain add-ons like "Reddit Enhancement
>> Suite" (RES) provide additional functionality which is comparable to
>> and sometimes even superior to what you will find in a typical Usenet
>> client. I find the Reddit Enhancement Suite indispensable -- reading
>> Reddit without it is painful.
>>
>> 5. Usenet newsgroups are hierarchical -- "rec.arts.sf.written" --
>> which facilitates discovery. Subreddits are less structured.
>>
>> 6. Curiously, Reddit spam is becoming more of an issue now that Large
>> Language Models are better at impersonating humans.
>>
> Sounds like "someone" tried to copy or update Usenet to the web.  And
> failed badly.

Reddit may not match Usenet in unmoderated discussion, but it
remains by far the most widely used long-text discussion forum on the web.

It currently has 62 million daily users. /r/printsf, the nearest
equivalent to this newsgroup, has 314,000 users. [Modulo spam and bot
accounts, but we get those on usenet too]

pt

On 3/15/2024 9:57 PM, Ahasuerus wrote:
> On 3/15/2024 7:49 PM, Cryptoengineer wrote:
>> On 3/15/2024 5:38 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> [snip-snip]
>>> Personally, I have no interest in reddit, with or without an account.
>>
>> I honestly find the reddit-hate on usenet a bit dissapointing. Perhaps
>> because its the closest thing to usenet, but is not usenet. [snip]
>
> It's true that Reddit is a collection of "subreddits" the way Usenet is
> a collection of "newsgroups". However, there are certain differences:
>
> 1. All subreddits are moderated, which, as anyone who has had to deal
> with moderated newsgroups knows, is a double-edged sword. Reddit admins
> also function as site-wide super-moderators and can ban Reddit account.
>
> 2. Subreddit moderators have to follow site-wide Reddit content
> policies, which have been known to change. To quote
> https://www.redditinc.com/policies/moderator-code-of-conduct , "your
> subreddit and moderator team can be held accountable for individual
> moderator actions".
>
> 3. Reddit has a "karma" system, which is based on other users upvoting
> or downvoting your posts and comments. Some subreddits require a certain
> amount of positive Reddit-wide karma to post and/or to comment. Reddit
> also requires a certain amount of karma to create new subreddits.
>
> 4. Usenet clients are generally more robust than the default Reddit user
> interface. However, certain add-ons like "Reddit Enhancement Suite"
> (RES) provide additional functionality which is comparable to and
> sometimes even superior to what you will find in a typical Usenet
> client. I find the Reddit Enhancement Suite indispensable -- reading
> Reddit without it is painful.
>
> 5. Usenet newsgroups are hierarchical -- "rec.arts.sf.written" -- which
> facilitates discovery. Subreddits are less structured.
>
> 6. Curiously, Reddit spam is becoming more of an issue now that Large
> Language Models are better at impersonating humans.

Need I point out that you are posting from eternal-september.org,
which exercises moderation of this newsgroup.

In fact, most of us use ES specifically *because* rasfw here is
moderated, to filter out spam posts.

Not all moderation is bad.

pt

On 3/16/2024 3:31 PM, Cryptoengineer wrote:
> On 3/15/2024 9:57 PM, Ahasuerus wrote:
>> On 3/15/2024 7:49 PM, Cryptoengineer wrote:
>>> On 3/15/2024 5:38 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> [snip-snip]
>>>> Personally, I have no interest in reddit, with or without an account.
>>>
>>> I honestly find the reddit-hate on usenet a bit dissapointing. Perhaps
>>> because its the closest thing to usenet, but is not usenet. [snip]
>>
>> It's true that Reddit is a collection of "subreddits" the way Usenet
>> is a collection of "newsgroups". However, there are certain differences:
>>
>> 1. All subreddits are moderated, which, as anyone who has had to deal
>> with moderated newsgroups knows, is a double-edged sword. Reddit
>> admins also function as site-wide super-moderators and can ban Reddit
>> account.
>>
>> 2. Subreddit moderators have to follow site-wide Reddit content
>> policies, which have been known to change. To quote
>> https://www.redditinc.com/policies/moderator-code-of-conduct , "your
>> subreddit and moderator team can be held accountable for individual
>> moderator actions".
>>
>> 3. Reddit has a "karma" system, which is based on other users upvoting
>> or downvoting your posts and comments. Some subreddits require a
>> certain amount of positive Reddit-wide karma to post and/or to
>> comment. Reddit also requires a certain amount of karma to create new
>> subreddits.
>>
>> 4. Usenet clients are generally more robust than the default Reddit
>> user interface. However, certain add-ons like "Reddit Enhancement
>> Suite" (RES) provide additional functionality which is comparable to
>> and sometimes even superior to what you will find in a typical Usenet
>> client. I find the Reddit Enhancement Suite indispensable -- reading
>> Reddit without it is painful.
>>
>> 5. Usenet newsgroups are hierarchical -- "rec.arts.sf.written" --
>> which facilitates discovery. Subreddits are less structured.
>>
>> 6. Curiously, Reddit spam is becoming more of an issue now that Large
>> Language Models are better at impersonating humans.
>
> Need I point out that you are posting from eternal-september.org,
> which exercises moderation of this newsgroup.
>
> In fact, most of us use ES specifically *because* rasfw here is
> moderated, to filter out spam posts.
>
> Not all moderation is bad.

Oh, I didn't say that moderation was bad. I said that it was a
double-edged sword. We have seen it on Usenet as well as on Web-based
SF-related forums like Space Battles, Sufficient Velocity, Questionable
Questing, etc. Different forums have different policies and different
moderators apply them differently, which leads to various controversies.

Re: spam filtering, it's something that Usenet has been dealing with for
a very long time. One of the first things that I saw when I subscribed
to rec.arts.sf.written in April 1994 was an ongoing controversy over
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serdar_Argic 's spam.

On 3/16/2024 6:02 PM, Ahasuerus wrote:
> On 3/16/2024 3:31 PM, Cryptoengineer wrote:
>> On 3/15/2024 9:57 PM, Ahasuerus wrote:
>>> On 3/15/2024 7:49 PM, Cryptoengineer wrote:
>>>> On 3/15/2024 5:38 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>> [snip-snip]
>>>>> Personally, I have no interest in reddit, with or without an account.
>>>>
>>>> I honestly find the reddit-hate on usenet a bit dissapointing. Perhaps
>>>> because its the closest thing to usenet, but is not usenet. [snip]
>>>
>>> It's true that Reddit is a collection of "subreddits" the way Usenet
>>> is a collection of "newsgroups". However, there are certain differences:
>>>
>>> 1. All subreddits are moderated, which, as anyone who has had to deal
>>> with moderated newsgroups knows, is a double-edged sword. Reddit
>>> admins also function as site-wide super-moderators and can ban Reddit
>>> account.
>>>
>>> 2. Subreddit moderators have to follow site-wide Reddit content
>>> policies, which have been known to change. To quote
>>> https://www.redditinc.com/policies/moderator-code-of-conduct , "your
>>> subreddit and moderator team can be held accountable for individual
>>> moderator actions".
>>>
>>> 3. Reddit has a "karma" system, which is based on other users
>>> upvoting or downvoting your posts and comments. Some subreddits
>>> require a certain amount of positive Reddit-wide karma to post and/or
>>> to comment. Reddit also requires a certain amount of karma to create
>>> new subreddits.
>>>
>>> 4. Usenet clients are generally more robust than the default Reddit
>>> user interface. However, certain add-ons like "Reddit Enhancement
>>> Suite" (RES) provide additional functionality which is comparable to
>>> and sometimes even superior to what you will find in a typical Usenet
>>> client. I find the Reddit Enhancement Suite indispensable -- reading
>>> Reddit without it is painful.
>>>
>>> 5. Usenet newsgroups are hierarchical -- "rec.arts.sf.written" --
>>> which facilitates discovery. Subreddits are less structured.
>>>
>>> 6. Curiously, Reddit spam is becoming more of an issue now that Large
>>> Language Models are better at impersonating humans.
>>
>> Need I point out that you are posting from eternal-september.org,
>> which exercises moderation of this newsgroup.
>>
>> In fact, most of us use ES specifically *because* rasfw here is
>> moderated, to filter out spam posts.
>>
>> Not all moderation is bad.
>
> Oh, I didn't say that moderation was bad. I said that it was a
> double-edged sword. We have seen it on Usenet as well as on Web-based
> SF-related forums like Space Battles, Sufficient Velocity, Questionable
> Questing, etc. Different forums have different policies and different
> moderators apply them differently, which leads to various controversies.
>
> Re: spam filtering, it's something that Usenet has been dealing with for
> a very long time. One of the first things that I saw when I subscribed
> to rec.arts.sf.written in April 1994 was an ongoing controversy over
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serdar_Argic 's spam.

Most of the moderation on usenet has blown up because the moderators
allowed themselves to die off rather than recruit new moderators. So
nobody could post new messages to those moderated groups and reply yo
old postings.

The moderation on reddit is reactive rather than pre moderation like on
usenet. The moderators allow members of a group to post freely unless
there is a problem.

Lynn

In article <usvh14$1pioj$2@dont-email.me>, lynnmcguire5@gmail.com
says...
>
> YASID "Sci-fi Books, Humans with Animal genes/modifications?"
>
> https://www.reddit.com/r/printSF/comments/1bcw0l7/scifi_books_humans_with_animal_genesmodifications/
>
> "I read a book maybe 10 years or more ago, set in a future where
> humanity had played with gene splicing/gene therapy to the point where
> it was entirely common to see people with animal attributes. There was a
> whole community of peoples who had Cat/Lion genes who had some feline
> features and some of their agility, people with snake genes that had
> some scaled patterns on their skin and had sensuous, smooth movements,
> and so on. I?ve been trying to find this book for YEARS, but I have no
> idea what it was called and can?t really remember the plot except that
> there was a conflict between ?normal? humans and those who had their
> genes modified. Any help, suggestions, or even recommendations about
> similar books?"

Reminded of _Beasts_ by John Crowley

On 3/16/2024 10:51 PM, raglegumm@myaccess.ca wrote:
> In article <usvh14$1pioj$2@dont-email.me>, lynnmcguire5@gmail.com
> says...
>>
>> YASID "Sci-fi Books, Humans with Animal genes/modifications?"
>>
>> https://www.reddit.com/r/printSF/comments/1bcw0l7/scifi_books_humans_with_animal_genesmodifications/
>>
>> "I read a book maybe 10 years or more ago, set in a future where
>> humanity had played with gene splicing/gene therapy to the point where
>> it was entirely common to see people with animal attributes. There was a
>> whole community of peoples who had Cat/Lion genes who had some feline
>> features and some of their agility, people with snake genes that had
>> some scaled patterns on their skin and had sensuous, smooth movements,
>> and so on. I?ve been trying to find this book for YEARS, but I have no
>> idea what it was called and can?t really remember the plot except that
>> there was a conflict between ?normal? humans and those who had their
>> genes modified. Any help, suggestions, or even recommendations about
>> similar books?"
>
>
> Reminded of _Beasts_ by John Crowley

Somebody in reddit suggested that also.

"Surprised no one's mentioned Beasts, John Crowley's second novel. It's
a bit overshadowed by Engine Summer and Little, Big now, but I really
like it. Lion/human genetic hybrids, being hunted down by humans."

"Yet to read anything by Crowley I've felt let down by."

The other common answer is:

""Oryx and Crake" by Margaret Atwood, which features genetic engineering
and a post-apocalyptic setting. Another possibility is the "Uplift
Series" by David Brin, which involves genetically improved animal."

Thanks,
Lynn

On 3/16/2024 7:02 PM, Ahasuerus wrote:
> On 3/16/2024 3:31 PM, Cryptoengineer wrote:
>> On 3/15/2024 9:57 PM, Ahasuerus wrote:
>>> On 3/15/2024 7:49 PM, Cryptoengineer wrote:
>>>> On 3/15/2024 5:38 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>> [snip-snip]
>>>>> Personally, I have no interest in reddit, with or without an account.
>>>>
>>>> I honestly find the reddit-hate on usenet a bit dissapointing. Perhaps
>>>> because its the closest thing to usenet, but is not usenet. [snip]
>>>
>>> It's true that Reddit is a collection of "subreddits" the way Usenet
>>> is a collection of "newsgroups". However, there are certain differences:
>>>
>>> 1. All subreddits are moderated, which, as anyone who has had to deal
>>> with moderated newsgroups knows, is a double-edged sword. Reddit
>>> admins also function as site-wide super-moderators and can ban Reddit
>>> account.
>>>
>>> 2. Subreddit moderators have to follow site-wide Reddit content
>>> policies, which have been known to change. To quote
>>> https://www.redditinc.com/policies/moderator-code-of-conduct , "your
>>> subreddit and moderator team can be held accountable for individual
>>> moderator actions".
>>>
>>> 3. Reddit has a "karma" system, which is based on other users
>>> upvoting or downvoting your posts and comments. Some subreddits
>>> require a certain amount of positive Reddit-wide karma to post and/or
>>> to comment. Reddit also requires a certain amount of karma to create
>>> new subreddits.
>>>
>>> 4. Usenet clients are generally more robust than the default Reddit
>>> user interface. However, certain add-ons like "Reddit Enhancement
>>> Suite" (RES) provide additional functionality which is comparable to
>>> and sometimes even superior to what you will find in a typical Usenet
>>> client. I find the Reddit Enhancement Suite indispensable -- reading
>>> Reddit without it is painful.
>>>
>>> 5. Usenet newsgroups are hierarchical -- "rec.arts.sf.written" --
>>> which facilitates discovery. Subreddits are less structured.
>>>
>>> 6. Curiously, Reddit spam is becoming more of an issue now that Large
>>> Language Models are better at impersonating humans.
>>
>> Need I point out that you are posting from eternal-september.org,
>> which exercises moderation of this newsgroup.
>>
>> In fact, most of us use ES specifically *because* rasfw here is
>> moderated, to filter out spam posts.
>>
>> Not all moderation is bad.
>
> Oh, I didn't say that moderation was bad. I said that it was a
> double-edged sword. We have seen it on Usenet as well as on Web-based
> SF-related forums like Space Battles, Sufficient Velocity, Questionable
> Questing, etc. Different forums have different policies and different
> moderators apply them differently, which leads to various controversies.
>
> Re: spam filtering, it's something that Usenet has been dealing with for
> a very long time. One of the first things that I saw when I subscribed
> to rec.arts.sf.written in April 1994 was an ongoing controversy over
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serdar_Argic 's spam.

That takes me back....

pt

On 3/16/2024 8:25 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> On 3/16/2024 6:02 PM, Ahasuerus wrote:
>> On 3/16/2024 3:31 PM, Cryptoengineer wrote:
>>> On 3/15/2024 9:57 PM, Ahasuerus wrote:
>>>> On 3/15/2024 7:49 PM, Cryptoengineer wrote:
>>>>> On 3/15/2024 5:38 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>> [snip-snip]
>>>>>> Personally, I have no interest in reddit, with or without an account.
>>>>>
>>>>> I honestly find the reddit-hate on usenet a bit dissapointing. Perhaps
>>>>> because its the closest thing to usenet, but is not usenet. [snip]
>>>>
>>>> It's true that Reddit is a collection of "subreddits" the way Usenet
>>>> is a collection of "newsgroups". However, there are certain
>>>> differences:
>>>>
>>>> 1. All subreddits are moderated, which, as anyone who has had to
>>>> deal with moderated newsgroups knows, is a double-edged sword.
>>>> Reddit admins also function as site-wide super-moderators and can
>>>> ban Reddit account.
>>>>
>>>> 2. Subreddit moderators have to follow site-wide Reddit content
>>>> policies, which have been known to change. To quote
>>>> https://www.redditinc.com/policies/moderator-code-of-conduct , "your
>>>> subreddit and moderator team can be held accountable for individual
>>>> moderator actions".
>>>>
>>>> 3. Reddit has a "karma" system, which is based on other users
>>>> upvoting or downvoting your posts and comments. Some subreddits
>>>> require a certain amount of positive Reddit-wide karma to post
>>>> and/or to comment. Reddit also requires a certain amount of karma to
>>>> create new subreddits.
>>>>
>>>> 4. Usenet clients are generally more robust than the default Reddit
>>>> user interface. However, certain add-ons like "Reddit Enhancement
>>>> Suite" (RES) provide additional functionality which is comparable to
>>>> and sometimes even superior to what you will find in a typical
>>>> Usenet client. I find the Reddit Enhancement Suite indispensable --
>>>> reading Reddit without it is painful.
>>>>
>>>> 5. Usenet newsgroups are hierarchical -- "rec.arts.sf.written" --
>>>> which facilitates discovery. Subreddits are less structured.
>>>>
>>>> 6. Curiously, Reddit spam is becoming more of an issue now that
>>>> Large Language Models are better at impersonating humans.
>>>
>>> Need I point out that you are posting from eternal-september.org,
>>> which exercises moderation of this newsgroup.
>>>
>>> In fact, most of us use ES specifically *because* rasfw here is
>>> moderated, to filter out spam posts.
>>>
>>> Not all moderation is bad.
>>
>> Oh, I didn't say that moderation was bad. I said that it was a
>> double-edged sword. We have seen it on Usenet as well as on Web-based
>> SF-related forums like Space Battles, Sufficient Velocity,
>> Questionable Questing, etc. Different forums have different policies
>> and different moderators apply them differently, which leads to
>> various controversies.
>>
>> Re: spam filtering, it's something that Usenet has been dealing with
>> for a very long time. One of the first things that I saw when I
>> subscribed to rec.arts.sf.written in April 1994 was an ongoing
>> controversy over https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serdar_Argic 's spam.
>
> Most of the moderation on usenet has blown up because the moderators
> allowed themselves to die off rather than recruit new moderators.  So
> nobody could post new messages to those moderated groups and reply yo
> old postings.
>
> The moderation on reddit is reactive rather than pre moderation like on
> usenet.  The moderators allow members of a group to post freely unless
> there is a problem.
>
> Lynn

Yeah. Moderation on usenet is pre-post - a post requires approval by
the moderator before anyone could see it. The meant that mods have to
read, and approve, *every single post* to the group.

Reddit moderating is post-post - they can remove posts after they've
hit the sub. They can also ban specific users for either a period of
time, or permanently. There's zero recourse, beyond appealing in a
private message to one of the sub's mods.

I've been permabanned from a number of subs, and banned and reinstated
on some others. Some I arguably deserved, others I did not; some subs
auto-ban any one who has posted in a sub they object to.

Most of the time, it isn't an issue.

pt

Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> writes:
>On 3/15/2024 9:57 PM, Ahasuerus wrote:

>> 5. Usenet newsgroups are hierarchical -- "rec.arts.sf.written" -- which
>> facilitates discovery. Subreddits are less structured.
>>
>> 6. Curiously, Reddit spam is becoming more of an issue now that Large
>> Language Models are better at impersonating humans.
>
>Need I point out that you are posting from eternal-september.org,
>which exercises moderation of this newsgroup.
>
>In fact, most of us use ES specifically *because* rasfw here is
>moderated, to filter out spam posts.

I would point out that since google shut down, there hasn't been
any spam to filter. Nor was there any before the recent
google thai spam storm.

My usenet provider refused to filter that Thai spam because
they don't filter or moderate at all.