John <john@building-m.simplistic-anti-spam-measure.net> wrote:
>Jerry Brown <jerry@jwbrown.co.uk.invalid> writes:
>
>> There's also the non-fiction "Tramp Royale" in which RAH pioneers the
>> slightly snarky travel book decades before the likes of Bill Bryson
>> and his successors.
>
>I guess you could say he pioneered the slightly snarky travel book, but
>only because Mark Twain pioneered the *extremely* snarky travel book in
>the previous century.

Boswell and Johnson deserve credit for prior art in the snarky travel book
field.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

In article <uu167e$rr1$1@panix2.panix.com>,
Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote:
>In article <l6eo67FmaumU1@mid.individual.net>,
>Ted Nolan <tednolan> <tednolan> wrote:
>>In article <utsuim$1bofd$2@dont-email.me>,
>>Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>On 3/24/2024 11:53 AM, Robert Woodward wrote:
>>>> In article <utp7bl$d3l$1@reader1.panix.com>,
>>>> jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Beyond Rejection (Beyond, volume 1) by Justin Leiber
>>>>>
>>>>> Revived in the body of a mind-wiped woman, Ishmael Forth is challenged
>>>>> to adapt to new circumstances. But first, a two-fisted interstellar
>>>>> adventure!
>>>>>
>>>>> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/also-there-are-moby-dick-references
>>>>
>>>> So what was the worst novel written by a son of a famous author that you
>>>> have read?
>>>
>>>I enjoyed the Heinlein book that Spider Robinson finished, "Variable Star".
>>> https://www.amazon.com/Variable-Star-Tor-Science-Fiction/dp/0765351684/
>>>
>>
>>Interesting! Somehow I never heard of that. I'll put it on the wish list.
>
>I wasn't impressed by it at all, but I think it's worth reading just for
>completeness.

Unsurprisingly, I've read it. Readers are probably best advised to
go into it expecting a Spider Robinson book, not a Heinlein.

--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

On Tue, 26 Mar 2024 17:58:24 +0000, John
<john@building-m.simplistic-anti-spam-measure.net> wrote:

>Jerry Brown <jerry@jwbrown.co.uk.invalid> writes:
>
>> There's also the non-fiction "Tramp Royale" in which RAH pioneers the
>> slightly snarky travel book decades before the likes of Bill Bryson
>> and his successors.
>
>I guess you could say he pioneered the slightly snarky travel book, but
>only because Mark Twain pioneered the *extremely* snarky travel book in
>the previous century.
>
>The title "Tramp Royale" may even be a wink to "A Tramp Abroad"
>
>> I could have done without the final chapter in which he advises the
>> reader that they might as well travel the USA as its sights are better
>> than anything the rest of the world could offer.
>
>A deeply Heinlein attitude, although I agree that some Americans have a
>weird tendency to not view it as a "real" vacation unless an ocean was
>crossed.

I came to the conclusion that "visiting the relatives" and "real
vacation" were not the same thing (except, of course, in my family) --
but I didn't think you had to cross an ocean to have a real vacation.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

On 3/27/2024 12:15 PM, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Mar 2024 17:58:24 +0000, John
> <john@building-m.simplistic-anti-spam-measure.net> wrote:
>
>> Jerry Brown <jerry@jwbrown.co.uk.invalid> writes:
>>
>>> There's also the non-fiction "Tramp Royale" in which RAH pioneers the
>>> slightly snarky travel book decades before the likes of Bill Bryson
>>> and his successors.
>>
>> I guess you could say he pioneered the slightly snarky travel book, but
>> only because Mark Twain pioneered the *extremely* snarky travel book in
>> the previous century.
>>
>> The title "Tramp Royale" may even be a wink to "A Tramp Abroad"
>>
>>> I could have done without the final chapter in which he advises the
>>> reader that they might as well travel the USA as its sights are better
>>> than anything the rest of the world could offer.
>>
>> A deeply Heinlein attitude, although I agree that some Americans have a
>> weird tendency to not view it as a "real" vacation unless an ocean was
>> crossed.
>
> I came to the conclusion that "visiting the relatives" and "real
> vacation" were not the same thing (except, of course, in my family) --
> but I didn't think you had to cross an ocean to have a real vacation.

I've long used the term 'oblication' to describe the trips you Must Take
even if you'd rather go somewhere new.

I've been to Silicon Valley to visit my mother more times than I can
remember, and my wife and I have pretty well run out of sites to visit.

pt

In article <uu2bji$34s12$4@dont-email.me>,
Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 3/27/2024 12:15 PM, Paul S Person wrote:
>> On Tue, 26 Mar 2024 17:58:24 +0000, John
>> <john@building-m.simplistic-anti-spam-measure.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Jerry Brown <jerry@jwbrown.co.uk.invalid> writes:
>>>
>>>> There's also the non-fiction "Tramp Royale" in which RAH pioneers the
>>>> slightly snarky travel book decades before the likes of Bill Bryson
>>>> and his successors.
>>>
>>> I guess you could say he pioneered the slightly snarky travel book, but
>>> only because Mark Twain pioneered the *extremely* snarky travel book in
>>> the previous century.
>>>
>>> The title "Tramp Royale" may even be a wink to "A Tramp Abroad"
>>>
>>>> I could have done without the final chapter in which he advises the
>>>> reader that they might as well travel the USA as its sights are better
>>>> than anything the rest of the world could offer.
>>>
>>> A deeply Heinlein attitude, although I agree that some Americans have a
>>> weird tendency to not view it as a "real" vacation unless an ocean was
>>> crossed.
>>
>> I came to the conclusion that "visiting the relatives" and "real
>> vacation" were not the same thing (except, of course, in my family) --
>> but I didn't think you had to cross an ocean to have a real vacation.
>
>I've long used the term 'oblication' to describe the trips you Must Take
>even if you'd rather go somewhere new.
>

http://columbiaclosings.com/pix/24/03/boffo_graduation.jpg
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> writes:
>On 3/27/2024 12:15 PM, Paul S Person wrote:
>> On Tue, 26 Mar 2024 17:58:24 +0000, John
>> <john@building-m.simplistic-anti-spam-measure.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Jerry Brown <jerry@jwbrown.co.uk.invalid> writes:
>>>
>>>> There's also the non-fiction "Tramp Royale" in which RAH pioneers the
>>>> slightly snarky travel book decades before the likes of Bill Bryson
>>>> and his successors.
>>>
>>> I guess you could say he pioneered the slightly snarky travel book, but
>>> only because Mark Twain pioneered the *extremely* snarky travel book in
>>> the previous century.
>>>
>>> The title "Tramp Royale" may even be a wink to "A Tramp Abroad"
>>>
>>>> I could have done without the final chapter in which he advises the
>>>> reader that they might as well travel the USA as its sights are better
>>>> than anything the rest of the world could offer.
>>>
>>> A deeply Heinlein attitude, although I agree that some Americans have a
>>> weird tendency to not view it as a "real" vacation unless an ocean was
>>> crossed.
>>
>> I came to the conclusion that "visiting the relatives" and "real
>> vacation" were not the same thing (except, of course, in my family) --
>> but I didn't think you had to cross an ocean to have a real vacation.
>
>I've long used the term 'oblication' to describe the trips you Must Take
>even if you'd rather go somewhere new.
>
>I've been to Silicon Valley to visit my mother more times than I can
>remember, and my wife and I have pretty well run out of sites to visit.

I've lived there for three decades and still haven't visited
every site of interest within a 180 minute drive.

On 3/28/2024 10:07 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> writes:
>> On 3/27/2024 12:15 PM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>> On Tue, 26 Mar 2024 17:58:24 +0000, John
>>> <john@building-m.simplistic-anti-spam-measure.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Jerry Brown <jerry@jwbrown.co.uk.invalid> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> There's also the non-fiction "Tramp Royale" in which RAH pioneers the
>>>>> slightly snarky travel book decades before the likes of Bill Bryson
>>>>> and his successors.
>>>>
>>>> I guess you could say he pioneered the slightly snarky travel book, but
>>>> only because Mark Twain pioneered the *extremely* snarky travel book in
>>>> the previous century.
>>>>
>>>> The title "Tramp Royale" may even be a wink to "A Tramp Abroad"
>>>>
>>>>> I could have done without the final chapter in which he advises the
>>>>> reader that they might as well travel the USA as its sights are better
>>>>> than anything the rest of the world could offer.
>>>>
>>>> A deeply Heinlein attitude, although I agree that some Americans have a
>>>> weird tendency to not view it as a "real" vacation unless an ocean was
>>>> crossed.
>>>
>>> I came to the conclusion that "visiting the relatives" and "real
>>> vacation" were not the same thing (except, of course, in my family) --
>>> but I didn't think you had to cross an ocean to have a real vacation.
>>
>> I've long used the term 'oblication' to describe the trips you Must Take
>> even if you'd rather go somewhere new.
>>
>> I've been to Silicon Valley to visit my mother more times than I can
>> remember, and my wife and I have pretty well run out of sites to visit.
>
> I've lived there for three decades and still haven't visited
> every site of interest within a 180 minute drive.

Different interests, probably. I have to limit myself to things that
my wife will like too.

Next trip, I'm going to try to squeeze in a visit to the Stanford
Linear Accelerator. Tours are on a pretty limited schedule.

Best excursions have been overnights to Yosemite and Mt Shasta.

pt

Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> writes:
>On 3/28/2024 10:07 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> writes:
>>> On 3/27/2024 12:15 PM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 26 Mar 2024 17:58:24 +0000, John
>>>> <john@building-m.simplistic-anti-spam-measure.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Jerry Brown <jerry@jwbrown.co.uk.invalid> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>> There's also the non-fiction "Tramp Royale" in which RAH pioneers the
>>>>>> slightly snarky travel book decades before the likes of Bill Bryson
>>>>>> and his successors.
>>>>>
>>>>> I guess you could say he pioneered the slightly snarky travel book, but
>>>>> only because Mark Twain pioneered the *extremely* snarky travel book in
>>>>> the previous century.
>>>>>
>>>>> The title "Tramp Royale" may even be a wink to "A Tramp Abroad"
>>>>>
>>>>>> I could have done without the final chapter in which he advises the
>>>>>> reader that they might as well travel the USA as its sights are better
>>>>>> than anything the rest of the world could offer.
>>>>>
>>>>> A deeply Heinlein attitude, although I agree that some Americans have a
>>>>> weird tendency to not view it as a "real" vacation unless an ocean was
>>>>> crossed.
>>>>
>>>> I came to the conclusion that "visiting the relatives" and "real
>>>> vacation" were not the same thing (except, of course, in my family) --
>>>> but I didn't think you had to cross an ocean to have a real vacation.
>>>
>>> I've long used the term 'oblication' to describe the trips you Must Take
>>> even if you'd rather go somewhere new.
>>>
>>> I've been to Silicon Valley to visit my mother more times than I can
>>> remember, and my wife and I have pretty well run out of sites to visit.
>>
>> I've lived there for three decades and still haven't visited
>> every site of interest within a 180 minute drive.
>
>Different interests, probably. I have to limit myself to things that
>my wife will like too.
>
>Next trip, I'm going to try to squeeze in a visit to the Stanford
>Linear Accelerator. Tours are on a pretty limited schedule.
>
>Best excursions have been overnights to Yosemite and Mt Shasta.

Yes, those are nice. I assume you've been to Carmel and Monterey,
but how about Fort Bragg or Avila Beach? Or Pinnacles?
Filoli? Villa Montalvo?

Castle airpark museum (SR-71 and a RAF Vulcan are highlights)?

Northeastern California (Alturas, in the great basin high desert)?

Eureka and Ferndale (there's a redwood tree you can drive through).

You've probably visited the Livermore Labs professionally?

Highway 49 through gold country?

Tahoe.

On 3/28/2024 12:18 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> writes:
>> On 3/28/2024 10:07 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>> Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> writes:
>>>> On 3/27/2024 12:15 PM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 26 Mar 2024 17:58:24 +0000, John
>>>>> <john@building-m.simplistic-anti-spam-measure.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Jerry Brown <jerry@jwbrown.co.uk.invalid> writes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There's also the non-fiction "Tramp Royale" in which RAH pioneers the
>>>>>>> slightly snarky travel book decades before the likes of Bill Bryson
>>>>>>> and his successors.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I guess you could say he pioneered the slightly snarky travel book, but
>>>>>> only because Mark Twain pioneered the *extremely* snarky travel book in
>>>>>> the previous century.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The title "Tramp Royale" may even be a wink to "A Tramp Abroad"
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I could have done without the final chapter in which he advises the
>>>>>>> reader that they might as well travel the USA as its sights are better
>>>>>>> than anything the rest of the world could offer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A deeply Heinlein attitude, although I agree that some Americans have a
>>>>>> weird tendency to not view it as a "real" vacation unless an ocean was
>>>>>> crossed.
>>>>>
>>>>> I came to the conclusion that "visiting the relatives" and "real
>>>>> vacation" were not the same thing (except, of course, in my family) --
>>>>> but I didn't think you had to cross an ocean to have a real vacation.
>>>>
>>>> I've long used the term 'oblication' to describe the trips you Must Take
>>>> even if you'd rather go somewhere new.
>>>>
>>>> I've been to Silicon Valley to visit my mother more times than I can
>>>> remember, and my wife and I have pretty well run out of sites to visit.
>>>
>>> I've lived there for three decades and still haven't visited
>>> every site of interest within a 180 minute drive.
>>
>> Different interests, probably. I have to limit myself to things that
>> my wife will like too.
>>
>> Next trip, I'm going to try to squeeze in a visit to the Stanford
>> Linear Accelerator. Tours are on a pretty limited schedule.
>>
>> Best excursions have been overnights to Yosemite and Mt Shasta.
>
> Yes, those are nice. I assume you've been to Carmel and Monterey,

Yes and Yes.

> but how about Fort Bragg or Avila Beach? Or Pinnacles?

Nope.

> Filoli? Villa Montalvo?

My mom used to be a docent at Filoli, so yes, but not Montalvo

> Castle airpark museum (SR-71 and a RAF Vulcan are highlights)?

No, but I've been up close with SF-71s in NYC and DC. I've also
been to the Hiller Air Museum and Moffet Field.

> Northeastern California (Alturas, in the great basin high desert)?

I'll look into it. Overnights are a lot rarer than day trips.

> Eureka and Ferndale (there's a redwood tree you can drive through).

Yes, to all 3.

> You've probably visited the Livermore Labs professionally?

Actually no. There were public tours, but they have not been
restarted since the pandemic.

> Highway 49 through gold country?

Yes.

> Tahoe.

Probably too far.

Others we liked: Pt Reyes, Bolinas, Muir Woods, Big Basin
(worth seeing the near-alien regrowth since the fire),
Santa Cruz (scraping the bottom of the barrel, we even
went to The Mystery Spot, which was surprisingly fun).
Alice's Restaurant and the Skyline Drive, Buck's in
Woodside, the coastal highway up to Half Moon Bay, the
beaches on that stretch, Boulder Creek. Botanical
Gardens in Santa Cruz and Stanford. Santa Barbara,
Ventura (was eating in a Black Bear there when
'Ventura Highway' came on the radio).

In SF, Exploratorium, Zoo, Disney Museum, California
Academy of Sciences, Japanese Tea Garden SF Botanical
Garden, de Young, Chinatown, Tiki Room, Fisherman's Wharf,
Twin Peaks, Presido, Golden Gate Bridge, Coit Tower,
and all the usual tourist stuff.

pt

On 25/03/24 06:40, James Nicoll wrote:
> In article <utpnk5$ftng$2@dont-email.me>,
> Michael F. Stemper <michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 24/03/2024 12.08, James Nicoll wrote:
>>> In article <robertaw-178EDB.09533824032024@news.individual.net>,
>>> Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:
>>>> In article <utp7bl$d3l$1@reader1.panix.com>,
>>>> jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Beyond Rejection (Beyond, volume 1) by Justin Leiber
>>>>>
>>>>> Revived in the body of a mind-wiped woman, Ishmael Forth is challenged
>>>>> to adapt to new circumstances. But first, a two-fisted interstellar
>>>>> adventure!
>>>>>
>>>>> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/also-there-are-moby-dick-references
>>>>
>>>> So what was the worst novel written by a son of a famous author that you
>>>> have read?
>>>>
>>> Probably a Brian Herbert novel.
>>
>> That's who immediately came to my mind. It's not really fair in my case,
>> since, as far as I know, he's the only son of a famous author that I've
>> read.
>>
>> <https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?27552>
>
> There's Joe Hill but I've not read him. Heard good things about his
> books, though.
>

I read his NOS4A2 A Novel, which I classified as more of a Horror story
than Fantasy and although I finished it with a rating of 3 stars, I have
not sought more because Horror doesn't appeal. I remember reading
father's "It" decades ago but wouldn't enjoy that genre today though Joe
does have his own style.

> I like Rothman's The World is Round.

Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> writes:
>On 3/28/2024 12:18 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:

>>>> I've lived there for three decades and still haven't visited
>>>> every site of interest within a 180 minute drive.
>>>
>>> Different interests, probably. I have to limit myself to things that
>>> my wife will like too.
>>>
>>> Next trip, I'm going to try to squeeze in a visit to the Stanford
>>> Linear Accelerator. Tours are on a pretty limited schedule.
>>>
>>> Best excursions have been overnights to Yosemite and Mt Shasta.

>
>> but how about Fort Bragg or Avila Beach? Or Pinnacles?
>
>Nope.

Fort Bragg is worth an overnight. Pinnacles in the
late summer can be a bit warm.

>
>> Filoli? Villa Montalvo?
>
>My mom used to be a docent at Filoli, so yes, but not Montalvo

Some nice hiking at Montalvo. They used to have a summer concert
series - seeing Etta James on the lawn was one of the best shows
I've ever seen.

>
>> Castle airpark museum (SR-71 and a RAF Vulcan are highlights)?
>
>No, but I've been up close with SF-71s in NYC and DC. I've also
>been to the Hiller Air Museum and Moffet Field.

The most notable aircraft at Castle is the B-36, there are only
two in existance (the other is in Dayton).

>
>> Northeastern California (Alturas, in the great basin high desert)?
>
>I'll look into it. Overnights are a lot rarer than day trips.

When I did that trip a few years ago, I spent the first night
in Oroville and explored the reservoir area (more nice hiking);
this was just after they had repaired the emergency spillway.

From there, take highway 70 across the sierra (a few tunnels
from the 1930s) - this again was just after the Camp fire
which affected the northern side of CA70. Beautiful drive,
nonetheless. US395 to Alturas - a flat high plain surrounded
by mountains. Spent another night there. Then CA299 west
through the scenic territory to Redding (If you haven't taken
the Shasta Dam tour, it's an interesting tour through the
center of the dam). Fall River Mills is a pretty town.

>> Tahoe.
>
>Probably too far.

Nevada City/Grass valley is a bit closer and a pretty area.

Rent a ski chalet in Bear Valley in the summertime - some
nice alpine lakes in the area.

>
>Others we liked: Pt Reyes, Bolinas, Muir Woods, Big Basin

I hiked Big Basin regularly before the fire. A beautiful
place, indeed (just watch for the banana slugs).

>(worth seeing the near-alien regrowth since the fire),
>Santa Cruz (scraping the bottom of the barrel, we even
>went to The Mystery Spot, which was surprisingly fun).

Haven't done that yet.

>Alice's Restaurant and the Skyline Drive,

Yup. Not the one in the song, however.

Castle Rock.

> Buck's in
>Woodside, the coastal highway up to Half Moon Bay, the
>beaches on that stretch,

Elephant Seals.

Sunset State beach is 30 minutes from where I live, and
I visit at least once a week. Capitola is a pretty
town on the bay, Nicene Marks state park in the redwoods.

> Boulder Creek.

Have you explored Bonny Doon to find the home that RAH built?

>Botanical
>Gardens in Santa Cruz and Stanford. Santa Barbara,

Big Sur, Hearst Mansion, Morro Bay, Solvang, Vandenburg.