Dear sf enthusiasts,

I just finished re-reading Count Zero. Last time I read it was probably 25
years ago. I've read Neuromancer countless times, but never re-read any of
the other books in the Sprawl trilogy.

Surprisingly the book was better than I remembered so if Neuromancer was a
5/5 in my book (pun intended) I'd say that Count Zero is a 4/5.

Some fun notes/thoughts:

1. Todays billionaires are boring. I can't wait until they start to leave
their bodies for brains in a vat, clones and trying to merge with an AI.

2. Todays AI is boring. Let's see when they reach the levels in these
books, then we can start to talk about existential threats and the next
level of evolution!

3. I think Gibson got psychological profiling right! In the book
billionaires can build psychological profiles of people and know them
better than people know themselves. This sounds just like social media nad
Facebook to me.

4. Will cyberspace ever be a reality as envisioned by Gibson? I've worked
with computers all my life, and I cannot see it. It just seems so
inefficient to float around in some 3D space compared with what I can do
with a few commands on a command line. Yet, Zuckerberg & Co can't let it
rest, but are throwing billions at it, again and again and again.

Will probably read Mona Lisa Overdrive during my upcoming vacation and
currently I'm thinking about if I should read Rich mans sky next.

Best regards,
Daniel

On Sat, 30 Mar 2024 15:37:15 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:

>Dear sf enthusiasts,
>
>I just finished re-reading Count Zero. Last time I read it was probably 25
>years ago. I've read Neuromancer countless times, but never re-read any of
>the other books in the Sprawl trilogy.
>
>Surprisingly the book was better than I remembered so if Neuromancer was a
>5/5 in my book (pun intended) I'd say that Count Zero is a 4/5.
>
>Some fun notes/thoughts:
>
>1. Todays billionaires are boring. I can't wait until they start to leave
>their bodies for brains in a vat, clones and trying to merge with an AI.
>
>2. Todays AI is boring. Let's see when they reach the levels in these
>books, then we can start to talk about existential threats and the next
>level of evolution!
>
>3. I think Gibson got psychological profiling right! In the book
>billionaires can build psychological profiles of people and know them
>better than people know themselves. This sounds just like social media nad
>Facebook to me.
>
>4. Will cyberspace ever be a reality as envisioned by Gibson? I've worked
>with computers all my life, and I cannot see it. It just seems so
>inefficient to float around in some 3D space compared with what I can do
>with a few commands on a command line. Yet, Zuckerberg & Co can't let it
>rest, but are throwing billions at it, again and again and again.

IIRC, the guys (this was in the late 40s/50s, IIRC) who programmed
computers by wiring patch panels felt the same way about programs
stored in memory.

That said, Bing's endless and all-too-frequent "We've Updated! Here
are new features you neither need nor want!" tabs are becoming a pain.
Particularly when the reset the New tab screen to what /they/ want
rather than what /I/ want. So those guys were and you are /definitely/
onto something.

>Will probably read Mona Lisa Overdrive during my upcoming vacation and
>currently I'm thinking about if I should read Rich mans sky next.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

On 30/03/2024 09.37, D wrote:
> Dear sf enthusiasts,
>
> I just finished re-reading Count Zero. Last time I read it was probably 25 years ago. I've read Neuromancer countless times, but never re-read any of the other books in the Sprawl trilogy.

My hat is off to you. I read _Neuromancer_ in 1993 and _Mona Lisa Overdrive_
in 1994, and hope to never subject myself to any more Gibson.

> 1. Todays billionaires are boring. I can't wait until they start to leave their bodies for brains in a vat, clones and trying to merge with an AI.

I'd be willing to help most of them in these endeavors.

> 3. I think Gibson got psychological profiling right! In the book billionaires can build psychological profiles of people and know them better than people know themselves. This sounds just like social media nad Facebook to me.

Then, there's what some are calling the "digital after life":
<https://spectrum.ieee.org/digital-afterlife>

--
Michael F. Stemper
This post contains greater than 95% post-consumer bytes by weight.

On Sat, 30 Mar 2024, Michael F. Stemper wrote:

> On 30/03/2024 09.37, D wrote:
>> Dear sf enthusiasts,
>>
>> I just finished re-reading Count Zero. Last time I read it was probably 25
>> years ago. I've read Neuromancer countless times, but never re-read any of
>> the other books in the Sprawl trilogy.
>
> My hat is off to you. I read _Neuromancer_ in 1993 and _Mona Lisa Overdrive_
> in 1994, and hope to never subject myself to any more Gibson.
>
>> 1. Todays billionaires are boring. I can't wait until they start to leave
>> their bodies for brains in a vat, clones and trying to merge with an AI.
>
> I'd be willing to help most of them in these endeavors.
>
>> 3. I think Gibson got psychological profiling right! In the book
>> billionaires can build psychological profiles of people and know them
>> better than people know themselves. This sounds just like social media nad
>> Facebook to me.
>
> Then, there's what some are calling the "digital after life":
> <https://spectrum.ieee.org/digital-afterlife>

Ahh true, forgot about that!

"Michael F. Stemper" <michael.stemper@gmail.com> writes:

> My hat is off to you. I read _Neuromancer_ in 1993 and _Mona Lisa
> Overdrive_ in 1994, and hope to never subject myself to any more
> Gibson.

The Blue Ant trilogy is a whole 'nother thing. You should reconsider
and read at least Pattern Recognition -- go on to Spook Country and
Zero History if you revise your opinion.

Gibson was somehow pattiducking the vibes of the time with those books
and I think they're great. But whatever superpower that was seems to
have ended. In his own words:

It used to be, Gibson had told me, that a defensive membrane
divided his life from his work. He could consider the future as
a professional, without picturing his own life, his kids'
lives. "I never wanted to be the guy thinking about 'Mad Max'
world,' he said. "I had some sort of defense in
place. . . . It's denial, some kind of denial. But denial can
be a lifesaving thing, in certain lives, in certain times. How
on earth did you get through that? Some reliable part of you
just says, It's not happening." The membrane, he went on,
"which I very, very much miss, actually held until the morning
after Trump's election. And I woke up and it was gone, whatever
it was. It was just gone, and it's never come back."

-- William Gibson & Joshua Rothman, Ney Yorker, Dec. 2019

--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada

On Sun, 31 Mar 2024, Mike Spencer wrote:

>
> "Michael F. Stemper" <michael.stemper@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> My hat is off to you. I read _Neuromancer_ in 1993 and _Mona Lisa
>> Overdrive_ in 1994, and hope to never subject myself to any more
>> Gibson.
>
> The Blue Ant trilogy is a whole 'nother thing. You should reconsider
> and read at least Pattern Recognition -- go on to Spook Country and
> Zero History if you revise your opinion.

I've read it and Gibson (to me) just get worse and worse. I think that is
in part due to me connecting him with his original cyber punk so when he
moves away from that, for me, it's not Gibson any longer.

But if someone doesn't like the originals, then by all means, the later
ones are very different.

> Gibson was somehow pattiducking the vibes of the time with those books
> and I think they're great. But whatever superpower that was seems to
> have ended. In his own words:
>
> It used to be, Gibson had told me, that a defensive membrane
> divided his life from his work. He could consider the future as
> a professional, without picturing his own life, his kids'
> lives. "I never wanted to be the guy thinking about 'Mad Max'
> world,' he said. "I had some sort of defense in
> place. . . . It's denial, some kind of denial. But denial can
> be a lifesaving thing, in certain lives, in certain times. How
> on earth did you get through that? Some reliable part of you
> just says, It's not happening." The membrane, he went on,
> "which I very, very much miss, actually held until the morning
> after Trump's election. And I woke up and it was gone, whatever
> it was. It was just gone, and it's never come back."
>
> -- William Gibson & Joshua Rothman, Ney Yorker, Dec. 2019
>
>

On 3/30/2024 9:37 AM, D wrote:
> Dear sf enthusiasts,
>
> I just finished re-reading Count Zero. Last time I read it was probably
> 25 years ago. I've read Neuromancer countless times, but never re-read
> any of the other books in the Sprawl trilogy.
>
> Surprisingly the book was better than I remembered so if Neuromancer was
> a 5/5 in my book (pun intended) I'd say that Count Zero is a 4/5.
>
> Some fun notes/thoughts:
>
> 1. Todays billionaires are boring. I can't wait until they start to
> leave their bodies for brains in a vat, clones and trying to merge with
> an AI.
>
> 2. Todays AI is boring. Let's see when they reach the levels in these
> books, then we can start to talk about existential threats and the next
> level of evolution!
....

I am rewatching "The 100" on Netflix. I had forgotten that one of the
AIs in 2051 got the nuclear launch codes and radiated Earth to reduce
the human population. That is way too exciting for me.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_100_(TV_series)
and
https://www.amazon.com/100-Kass-Morgan/dp/0316234494

Lynn

On Sun, 31 Mar 2024, Lynn McGuire wrote:

> On 3/30/2024 9:37 AM, D wrote:
>> Dear sf enthusiasts,
>>
>> I just finished re-reading Count Zero. Last time I read it was probably 25
>> years ago. I've read Neuromancer countless times, but never re-read any of
>> the other books in the Sprawl trilogy.
>>
>> Surprisingly the book was better than I remembered so if Neuromancer was a
>> 5/5 in my book (pun intended) I'd say that Count Zero is a 4/5.
>>
>> Some fun notes/thoughts:
>>
>> 1. Todays billionaires are boring. I can't wait until they start to leave
>> their bodies for brains in a vat, clones and trying to merge with an AI.
>>
>> 2. Todays AI is boring. Let's see when they reach the levels in these
>> books, then we can start to talk about existential threats and the next
>> level of evolution!
> ...
>
> I am rewatching "The 100" on Netflix. I had forgotten that one of the AIs in
> 2051 got the nuclear launch codes and radiated Earth to reduce the human
> population. That is way too exciting for me.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_100_(TV_series)
> and
> https://www.amazon.com/100-Kass-Morgan/dp/0316234494
>
> Lynn

It is an interesting thought! What series of events would lead a human to
give nuclear launch codes to _one_ AI? There must be an enormous level of
trust and proven good behaviour. Even then it is hard to imagine not
having some kind of double key setup.

D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>
>It is an interesting thought! What series of events would lead a human to
>give nuclear launch codes to _one_ AI? There must be an enormous level of
>trust and proven good behaviour. Even then it is hard to imagine not
>having some kind of double key setup.

"Mr. President, it is not only possible, it is essential. That is the whole
idea of this machine, you know. Deterrence is the art of producing in the
mind of the enemy... the fear to attack. And so, because of the automated
and irrevocable decision making process which rules out human meddling, the
doomsday machine is terrifying. It's simple to understand. And completely
credible, and convincing."
-- Dr. Strangelove
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On Sun, 31 Mar 2024 17:57:01 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 3/30/2024 9:37 AM, D wrote:
>> Dear sf enthusiasts,
>>
>> I just finished re-reading Count Zero. Last time I read it was probably
>> 25 years ago. I've read Neuromancer countless times, but never re-read
>> any of the other books in the Sprawl trilogy.
>>
>> Surprisingly the book was better than I remembered so if Neuromancer was
>> a 5/5 in my book (pun intended) I'd say that Count Zero is a 4/5.
>>
>> Some fun notes/thoughts:
>>
>> 1. Todays billionaires are boring. I can't wait until they start to
>> leave their bodies for brains in a vat, clones and trying to merge with
>> an AI.
>>
>> 2. Todays AI is boring. Let's see when they reach the levels in these
>> books, then we can start to talk about existential threats and the next
>> level of evolution!
>...
>
>I am rewatching "The 100" on Netflix. I had forgotten that one of the
>AIs in 2051 got the nuclear launch codes and radiated Earth to reduce
>the human population. That is way too exciting for me.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_100_(TV_series)
>and
> https://www.amazon.com/100-Kass-Morgan/dp/0316234494

The series was exciting.

And yet, at the end of each episode, when I asked what had /happened/
in the sense of "progress toward a goal", the answer was generally
"not much". Each season, of course, achieved a goal, if slowly.

But that seems to be the case with most online series, which is one
reason I've pretty much given up on them.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

On 4/1/2024 10:52 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Sun, 31 Mar 2024 17:57:01 -0500, Lynn McGuire
> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 3/30/2024 9:37 AM, D wrote:
>>> Dear sf enthusiasts,
>>>
>>> I just finished re-reading Count Zero. Last time I read it was probably
>>> 25 years ago. I've read Neuromancer countless times, but never re-read
>>> any of the other books in the Sprawl trilogy.
>>>
>>> Surprisingly the book was better than I remembered so if Neuromancer was
>>> a 5/5 in my book (pun intended) I'd say that Count Zero is a 4/5.
>>>
>>> Some fun notes/thoughts:
>>>
>>> 1. Todays billionaires are boring. I can't wait until they start to
>>> leave their bodies for brains in a vat, clones and trying to merge with
>>> an AI.
>>>
>>> 2. Todays AI is boring. Let's see when they reach the levels in these
>>> books, then we can start to talk about existential threats and the next
>>> level of evolution!
>> ...
>>
>> I am rewatching "The 100" on Netflix. I had forgotten that one of the
>> AIs in 2051 got the nuclear launch codes and radiated Earth to reduce
>> the human population. That is way too exciting for me.
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_100_(TV_series)
>> and
>> https://www.amazon.com/100-Kass-Morgan/dp/0316234494
>
> The series was exciting.
>
> And yet, at the end of each episode, when I asked what had /happened/
> in the sense of "progress toward a goal", the answer was generally
> "not much". Each season, of course, achieved a goal, if slowly.
>
> But that seems to be the case with most online series, which is one
> reason I've pretty much given up on them.

The TV series is like a supercharged version of The Hunger Games. They
are continuously killing people off due to the harsh environment and the
harsh people. Life has no value to theses people whatsoever.

Lynn

On 4/1/2024 4:20 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> On 4/1/2024 10:52 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>> On Sun, 31 Mar 2024 17:57:01 -0500, Lynn McGuire
>> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 3/30/2024 9:37 AM, D wrote:
>>>> Dear sf enthusiasts,
>>>>
>>>> I just finished re-reading Count Zero. Last time I read it was probably
>>>> 25 years ago. I've read Neuromancer countless times, but never re-read
>>>> any of the other books in the Sprawl trilogy.
>>>>
>>>> Surprisingly the book was better than I remembered so if Neuromancer
>>>> was
>>>> a 5/5 in my book (pun intended) I'd say that Count Zero is a 4/5.
>>>>
>>>> Some fun notes/thoughts:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Todays billionaires are boring. I can't wait until they start to
>>>> leave their bodies for brains in a vat, clones and trying to merge with
>>>> an AI.
>>>>
>>>> 2. Todays AI is boring. Let's see when they reach the levels in these
>>>> books, then we can start to talk about existential threats and the next
>>>> level of evolution!
>>> ...
>>>
>>> I am rewatching "The 100" on Netflix.  I had forgotten that one of the
>>> AIs in 2051 got the nuclear launch codes and radiated Earth to reduce
>>> the human population.  That is way too exciting for me.
>>>     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_100_(TV_series)
>>> and
>>>     https://www.amazon.com/100-Kass-Morgan/dp/0316234494
>>
>> The series was exciting.
>>
>> And yet, at the end of each episode, when I asked what had /happened/
>> in the sense of "progress toward a goal", the answer was generally
>> "not much". Each season, of course, achieved a goal, if slowly.
>>
>> But that seems to be the case with most online series, which is one
>> reason I've pretty much given up on them.
>
> The TV series is like a supercharged version of The Hunger Games.  They
> are continuously killing people off due to the harsh environment and the
> harsh people.  Life has no value to theses people whatsoever.
>
The original book series, in its entirety, covered the 24 hours after
the teens landed and was all about the teen angst relationship stuff.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

On 4/1/2024 6:23 PM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
> On 4/1/2024 4:20 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> On 4/1/2024 10:52 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>> On Sun, 31 Mar 2024 17:57:01 -0500, Lynn McGuire
>>> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 3/30/2024 9:37 AM, D wrote:
>>>>> Dear sf enthusiasts,
>>>>>
>>>>> I just finished re-reading Count Zero. Last time I read it was
>>>>> probably
>>>>> 25 years ago. I've read Neuromancer countless times, but never re-read
>>>>> any of the other books in the Sprawl trilogy.
>>>>>
>>>>> Surprisingly the book was better than I remembered so if
>>>>> Neuromancer was
>>>>> a 5/5 in my book (pun intended) I'd say that Count Zero is a 4/5.
>>>>>
>>>>> Some fun notes/thoughts:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Todays billionaires are boring. I can't wait until they start to
>>>>> leave their bodies for brains in a vat, clones and trying to merge
>>>>> with
>>>>> an AI.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. Todays AI is boring. Let's see when they reach the levels in these
>>>>> books, then we can start to talk about existential threats and the
>>>>> next
>>>>> level of evolution!
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> I am rewatching "The 100" on Netflix.  I had forgotten that one of the
>>>> AIs in 2051 got the nuclear launch codes and radiated Earth to reduce
>>>> the human population.  That is way too exciting for me.
>>>>     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_100_(TV_series)
>>>> and
>>>>     https://www.amazon.com/100-Kass-Morgan/dp/0316234494
>>>
>>> The series was exciting.
>>>
>>> And yet, at the end of each episode, when I asked what had /happened/
>>> in the sense of "progress toward a goal", the answer was generally
>>> "not much". Each season, of course, achieved a goal, if slowly.
>>>
>>> But that seems to be the case with most online series, which is one
>>> reason I've pretty much given up on them.
>>
>> The TV series is like a supercharged version of The Hunger Games.
>> They are continuously killing people off due to the harsh environment
>> and the harsh people.  Life has no value to theses people whatsoever.
>>
> The original book series, in its entirety, covered the 24 hours after
> the teens landed and was all about the teen angst relationship stuff.

Maybe the first book covered 24 hours. The second book starts at day 21.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0316234575

Lynn

On Mon, 1 Apr 2024 18:20:17 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 4/1/2024 10:52 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>> On Sun, 31 Mar 2024 17:57:01 -0500, Lynn McGuire
>> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 3/30/2024 9:37 AM, D wrote:
>>>> Dear sf enthusiasts,
>>>>
>>>> I just finished re-reading Count Zero. Last time I read it was probably
>>>> 25 years ago. I've read Neuromancer countless times, but never re-read
>>>> any of the other books in the Sprawl trilogy.
>>>>
>>>> Surprisingly the book was better than I remembered so if Neuromancer was
>>>> a 5/5 in my book (pun intended) I'd say that Count Zero is a 4/5.
>>>>
>>>> Some fun notes/thoughts:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Todays billionaires are boring. I can't wait until they start to
>>>> leave their bodies for brains in a vat, clones and trying to merge with
>>>> an AI.
>>>>
>>>> 2. Todays AI is boring. Let's see when they reach the levels in these
>>>> books, then we can start to talk about existential threats and the next
>>>> level of evolution!
>>> ...
>>>
>>> I am rewatching "The 100" on Netflix. I had forgotten that one of the
>>> AIs in 2051 got the nuclear launch codes and radiated Earth to reduce
>>> the human population. That is way too exciting for me.
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_100_(TV_series)
>>> and
>>> https://www.amazon.com/100-Kass-Morgan/dp/0316234494
>>
>> The series was exciting.
>>
>> And yet, at the end of each episode, when I asked what had /happened/
>> in the sense of "progress toward a goal", the answer was generally
>> "not much". Each season, of course, achieved a goal, if slowly.
>>
>> But that seems to be the case with most online series, which is one
>> reason I've pretty much given up on them.
>
>The TV series is like a supercharged version of The Hunger Games. They
>are continuously killing people off due to the harsh environment and the
>harsh people. Life has no value to theses people whatsoever.

I steadily lost any empathy with the main characters as it became
apparent that each and every one of them was a mass murderer -- and
the excuse for their actions was always "the rest of us will survive".

Some lives had value to them. But most did not.

And there were far too few to actually continue the human race as a
species. Hence the final solution at the end of the last season.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"