On 24/08/2023 07:11, Peter wrote:
>
> David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> wrote
>
>> They can give you those credentials BUT not the VOIP credentials. If you
>> don't use their router you won't get a phone service.
>
> Right, so I can get internet working, but no phone.
>
> What stops me porting my number *now* to some VOIP service and running
> it on my current ADSL?
>

Well of course they "may" deliver what you think you asked for but I
don't believe so.

Your current ADSL service relies in the phone line. When you port the
number they will cease the ADSL. You should be able port it at any time
after. OFCOM says number portability will to continue after the move to
VOIP, but then you will need to provide VOIP hardware/adaptor.

>>> Voda is £25/m for 75mbps.
>>
>> sometimes you get what you pay for.
>
> Voda have been excellent. Zero downtime over 10 years. Customer
> service (I have some phone SIMs, for which Voda is the very best for
> European travel) is good.
>

Yet you started by ranting about there call centre staff.

>> I did a lot of research on here BEFORE ordering. I wonder why you didn't
>> any only asked after you had placed the order..
>
> I didn't think it would be difficult, especially as Voda said they can
> do the "box" with the WAN and POTS sockets on it.
>

Remember you were speaking to a sales droid. They are tasked with
selling VFs standard service. You get an ONT into which you plug the
router. The router has Ethernet and Phone sockets. Sounds like it will
do what you want. I'll just say yes and I can get on with the next call.

Well seeing as you no longer have POTS that will be challenging. I think
some of the issue here is you are asking for POTS and on FTTP there is
no such thing as POTS on FTTP. There may be a standard BT socket as on
my Zen router, but POTS it isn't as unplugging its PSU reveals.

I am pretty sure what you will receive is a standard VF Router.

> I have such a box on the wall at work, A&A. The POTS socket is not
> used but clearly the BT OR product exists.

Its not a POTS socket, its a BT socket on a VOIP adaptor. Unless you
have battery backup it won't work in a power cut. While the product
existed, I am not sure its still being delivered. If you check its
probably a Huawei and I think BT is now using Nokia kit. Something about
the Chinese government...

Reports on here suggest when asked for a POTS line on a fibre only
exchange BT now deliver a standard ONT + BT router but this may vary
from area to area.

I think you may be able to set the VF router into a modem mode where the
WAN interface is copied to the VF router Ethernet ports and you can plug
your phone service into its BT socket, but ITS NOT POTS.

Dave

On 24/08/2023 07:11, Peter wrote:
>
> What stops me porting my number *now* to some VOIP service and running
> it on my current ADSL?
>
Because of the way Openreach provision ADSL and FTTC services, by using
your 'landline' phone number, any attempt to port that number away, will
lead to the ADSL or FTTC service being ceased too.

I gather, you can now port your landline number away in the 30 days
following the cessation of an ADSL or FTTC connection.

In other words, apply to port the landline number immediately (but not
before) you have an FTTP connection up and running.
Obviously your number will be unobtainable for a few days, while the
port procedure is applied

David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> wrote

>Your current ADSL service relies in the phone line. When you port the
>number they will cease the ADSL. You should be able port it at any time
>after. OFCOM says number portability will to continue after the move to
>VOIP, but then you will need to provide VOIP hardware/adaptor.

A very good point!

>Remember you were speaking to a sales droid. They are tasked with
>selling VFs standard service. You get an ONT into which you plug the
>router. The router has Ethernet and Phone sockets. Sounds like it will
>do what you want. I'll just say yes and I can get on with the next call.

Exactly.

>Well seeing as you no longer have POTS that will be challenging. I think
>some of the issue here is you are asking for POTS and on FTTP there is
>no such thing as POTS on FTTP. There may be a standard BT socket as on
>my Zen router, but POTS it isn't as unplugging its PSU reveals.

I understand I need an adaptor, and a VOIP provider.

>I am pretty sure what you will receive is a standard VF Router.

Yes

>> I have such a box on the wall at work, A&A. The POTS socket is not
>> used but clearly the BT OR product exists.
>
>Its not a POTS socket, its a BT socket on a VOIP adaptor. Unless you
>have battery backup it won't work in a power cut.

Sure; no way to send 50V via the fibre :)

>While the product
>existed, I am not sure its still being delivered. If you check its
>probably a Huawei and I think BT is now using Nokia kit. Something about
>the Chinese government...

Right. It went in 2018 or so.

>Reports on here suggest when asked for a POTS line on a fibre only
>exchange BT now deliver a standard ONT + BT router but this may vary
>from area to area.

AIUI BT deliver what the ISP told them to.

>I think you may be able to set the VF router into a modem mode where the
>WAN interface is copied to the VF router Ethernet ports and you can plug
>your phone service into its BT socket, but ITS NOT POTS.

That would be ideal.

Where would the PPPOE login be set up? In the VF box or in my Draytek
2955?

Presumably in the former, to get their POTS socket to work.

I just need to be fairly sure this is possible i.e convert one of the
four (?) LAN ports on the VF router into a WAN/PPPOE port.

Jeff Gaines wrote:
> On 24/08/2023 in message <uc6sb3$3bu8v$1@dont-email.me> Peter wrote:
>
>> What stops me porting my number now to some VOIP service and running
>> it on my current ADSL?
>
> I'd be interested to know if that is practical. Fibre is being laid in
> my village at the moment and will go live over the next few months but
> that is Internet only. I looked at Andrews & Arnold for VOIP and they do
> it but there is a monthly fee plus per call fees and it looks as if it
> would be expensive.

It depends on how reliable your ADSL is. Personally I would not
recommend it - ADSL is generally not reliable enough. FTTC might be,
but my green cabinet was 1.1km away and the FTTC service never stayed up
for more than a couple of days. The one-minute connection break for a
re-sync is not a problem for internet browsing, but certainly would be
for VoIP.

Since getting FTTP I've used Voipfone. Monthly fee for porting-in a
number is £3.60, and call charges nominally 1p per minute. So it
compares favourably with the phone call component of a traditional
landline with broadband.

--
Graham J

Peter wrote:
>
> "Jeff Gaines" <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote
>
>> On 24/08/2023 in message <uc6sb3$3bu8v$1@dont-email.me> Peter wrote:
>>
>>> What stops me porting my number now to some VOIP service and running
>>> it on my current ADSL?
>>
>> I'd be interested to know if that is practical.
>
> It should be. The gotcha is that for VOIP you have to open some ports
> in your router. IIRC, up in the 5000 range (VOIP UDP ports etc) and I
> don't like doing that because these get instantly port sniffed by the
> chinks and they attack them. One fix is to firewall them to accept
> traffic only from the VOIP provider, and hope he never changes them ;)

[snip]

I use Voipfone with a Vigor 2860 router. It all "just works" - no
special configuration needed in the router.

--
Graham J

Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote

>It depends on how reliable your ADSL is. Personally I would not
>recommend it - ADSL is generally not reliable enough. FTTC might be,
>but my green cabinet was 1.1km away and the FTTC service never stayed up
>for more than a couple of days. The one-minute connection break for a
>re-sync is not a problem for internet browsing, but certainly would be
>for VoIP.

Indeed; I would normally not do VOIP over copper ADSL. One reason
being that BT fix analog line faults fast but take weeks (around here)
to fix data services.

So FTTP would be the only way for VOIP, in the long run.

>Since getting FTTP I've used Voipfone. Monthly fee for porting-in a
>number is £3.60, and call charges nominally 1p per minute. So it
>compares favourably with the phone call component of a traditional
>landline with broadband.

Can they supply a "box" with a POTS socket, an RJ45 going to my LAN,
and I open some ports in my router for it?

On 24/08/2023 09:24, Peter wrote:
>
> David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> wrote
>
>> Your current ADSL service relies in the phone line. When you port the
>> number they will cease the ADSL. You should be able port it at any time
>> after. OFCOM says number portability will to continue after the move to
>> VOIP, but then you will need to provide VOIP hardware/adaptor.
>
> A very good point!
>
>> Remember you were speaking to a sales droid. They are tasked with
>> selling VFs standard service. You get an ONT into which you plug the
>> router. The router has Ethernet and Phone sockets. Sounds like it will
>> do what you want. I'll just say yes and I can get on with the next call.
>
> Exactly.
>
>> Well seeing as you no longer have POTS that will be challenging. I think
>> some of the issue here is you are asking for POTS and on FTTP there is
>> no such thing as POTS on FTTP. There may be a standard BT socket as on
>> my Zen router, but POTS it isn't as unplugging its PSU reveals.
>
> I understand I need an adaptor, and a VOIP provider.
>
>> I am pretty sure what you will receive is a standard VF Router.
>
> Yes
>
>>> I have such a box on the wall at work, A&A. The POTS socket is not
>>> used but clearly the BT OR product exists.
>>
>> Its not a POTS socket, its a BT socket on a VOIP adaptor. Unless you
>> have battery backup it won't work in a power cut.
>
> Sure; no way to send 50V via the fibre :)
>
>> While the product
>> existed, I am not sure its still being delivered. If you check its
>> probably a Huawei and I think BT is now using Nokia kit. Something about
>> the Chinese government...
>
> Right. It went in 2018 or so.
>
>> Reports on here suggest when asked for a POTS line on a fibre only
>> exchange BT now deliver a standard ONT + BT router but this may vary
>>from area to area.
>
> AIUI BT deliver what the ISP told them to.

Well its actually Openreach that deliver. But you can only order
"services" from OpenReach (there used to be a catalogue) not particular
items of kit. So the method of delivery may vary.

>
>> I think you may be able to set the VF router into a modem mode where the
>> WAN interface is copied to the VF router Ethernet ports and you can plug
>> your phone service into its BT socket, but ITS NOT POTS.
>
> That would be ideal.
>
> Where would the PPPOE login be set up? In the VF box or in my Draytek
> 2955?
>

VF box

> Presumably in the former, to get their POTS socket to work.
>

yes

> I just need to be fairly sure this is possible i.e convert one of the
> four (?) LAN ports on the VF router into a WAN/PPPOE port.

I can't help there as I can't find a link to download the manual....

Dave

On 24/08/2023 09:38, Peter wrote:
>
> Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote
>
>> It depends on how reliable your ADSL is. Personally I would not
>> recommend it - ADSL is generally not reliable enough. FTTC might be,
>> but my green cabinet was 1.1km away and the FTTC service never stayed up
>> for more than a couple of days. The one-minute connection break for a
>> re-sync is not a problem for internet browsing, but certainly would be
>> for VoIP.
>
> Indeed; I would normally not do VOIP over copper ADSL. One reason
> being that BT fix analog line faults fast but take weeks (around here)
> to fix data services.
>
> So FTTP would be the only way for VOIP, in the long run.
>
>> Since getting FTTP I've used Voipfone. Monthly fee for porting-in a
>> number is £3.60, and call charges nominally 1p per minute. So it
>> compares favourably with the phone call component of a traditional
>> landline with broadband.
>
> Can they supply a "box" with a POTS socket, an RJ45 going to my LAN,
> and I open some ports in my router for it?

They have a couple ....

https://www.voipfone.co.uk/shop.php?method=category&pid=2

Dave

Mark Carver <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 24/08/2023 07:11, Peter wrote:
>>
>> What stops me porting my number *now* to some VOIP service and running
>> it on my current ADSL?
>>
> Because of the way Openreach provision ADSL and FTTC services, by using
> your 'landline' phone number, any attempt to port that number away, will
> lead to the ADSL or FTTC service being ceased too.
>
> I gather, you can now port your landline number away in the 30 days
> following the cessation of an ADSL or FTTC connection.
>
> In other words, apply to port the landline number immediately (but not
> before) you have an FTTP connection up and running.
> Obviously your number will be unobtainable for a few days, while the
> port procedure is applied
>

I ported my landline number away and kept my FTTC service, but that was
done by Andrews and Arnold, who know what they are doing.

Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:

>I use Voipfone with a Vigor 2860 router. It all "just works" - no
>special configuration needed in the router.

What phones?

It is possible to do that if the phone keeps the NAT tunnel open.

On 24/08/2023 10:27, Tweed wrote:
> Mark Carver <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 24/08/2023 07:11, Peter wrote:
>>> What stops me porting my number *now* to some VOIP service and running
>>> it on my current ADSL?
>>>
>> Because of the way Openreach provision ADSL and FTTC services, by using
>> your 'landline' phone number, any attempt to port that number away, will
>> lead to the ADSL or FTTC service being ceased too.
>>
>> I gather, you can now port your landline number away in the 30 days
>> following the cessation of an ADSL or FTTC connection.
>>
>> In other words, apply to port the landline number immediately (but not
>> before) you have an FTTP connection up and running.
>> Obviously your number will be unobtainable for a few days, while the
>> port procedure is applied
>>
> I ported my landline number away and kept my FTTC service, but that was
> done by Andrews and Arnold, who know what they are doing.
>
And I presume your FTTC service was with A&A too ?

Mark Carver <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 24/08/2023 10:27, Tweed wrote:
>> Mark Carver <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 24/08/2023 07:11, Peter wrote:
>>>> What stops me porting my number *now* to some VOIP service and running
>>>> it on my current ADSL?
>>>>
>>> Because of the way Openreach provision ADSL and FTTC services, by using
>>> your 'landline' phone number, any attempt to port that number away, will
>>> lead to the ADSL or FTTC service being ceased too.
>>>
>>> I gather, you can now port your landline number away in the 30 days
>>> following the cessation of an ADSL or FTTC connection.
>>>
>>> In other words, apply to port the landline number immediately (but not
>>> before) you have an FTTP connection up and running.
>>> Obviously your number will be unobtainable for a few days, while the
>>> port procedure is applied
>>>
>> I ported my landline number away and kept my FTTC service, but that was
>> done by Andrews and Arnold, who know what they are doing.
>>
> And I presume your FTTC service was with A&A too ?
>

Phone line rental and POTS voice was with Zen. FTTC with A&A. Phone line
converted to wires only and billed by A&A, phone number ported to A&A VOIP.
A&A FTTC service survived the ordeal unscathed.

Peter wrote:

[snip]

>
>> Since getting FTTP I've used Voipfone. Monthly fee for porting-in a
>> number is £3.60, and call charges nominally 1p per minute. So it
>> compares favourably with the phone call component of a traditional
>> landline with broadband.
>
> Can they supply a "box" with a POTS socket, an RJ45 going to my LAN,
> and I open some ports in my router for it?
>

Yes, see:

<https://www.voipfone.co.uk/shop.php?method=view&pid=140>

No need to open any router ports, in my experience with a Vigor 2860 router.

--
Graham J

Peter wrote:
>
> Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> I use Voipfone with a Vigor 2860 router. It all "just works" - no
>> special configuration needed in the router.
>
> What phones?
>
> It is possible to do that if the phone keeps the NAT tunnel open.

SNOM 300
and Gigaset N510 IP PRO with Gigaset S700 H Pro handsets

The phones "register" with Voipfone, which presumably avoids any
problems with NAT.

--
Graham J

Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:

>Peter wrote:
>>
>> Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> I use Voipfone with a Vigor 2860 router. It all "just works" - no
>>> special configuration needed in the router.
>>
>> What phones?
>>
>> It is possible to do that if the phone keeps the NAT tunnel open.
>
>
>SNOM 300
>and Gigaset N510 IP PRO with Gigaset S700 H Pro handsets
>
>The phones "register" with Voipfone, which presumably avoids any
>problems with NAT.

I spoke to VOIPfone re this
https://www.voipfone.co.uk/shop.php?method=view&pid=142
and it needs port 5060 open to the internal LAN.

I currently have port 5060 open in NAT, with a source IP from A&A (a
sort of firewall) and a dest IP of the actual Snom phone. AIUI a port
like 5060 *must* be forwarded to a given internal IP, or is that
optional? One obviously does want to accept 5060 packets only from
specific origin IPs otherwise half of china will be in there.

So it looks like I can create another rule where 5060 is open to
packets from Voipfone source IP(s) and a dest IP of their little box.

I will get one of these and test it. It won't have my landline number
(they come with some funny number) so I can test it.

Then when Voda turn up with their stupid useless router I can chuck it
in the bin and config the PPPOE credentials in the Draytek and
internet "should work" but I won't have a phone. Then on the same day
I can port the landline number to the Voipfone service.

Does that sounds reasonable?

I cannot believe that everybody who goes to Voda for FTTP loses their
VPNs and everything else. It MUST be possible to use your own router.

Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:

>No need to open any router ports, in my experience with a Vigor 2860 router.

They say 5060 must be open - see my other post just now.

Peter <occassionally-confused@nospam.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Peter wrote:
>>>
>>> Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I use Voipfone with a Vigor 2860 router. It all "just works" - no
>>>> special configuration needed in the router.
>>>
>>> What phones?
>>>
>>> It is possible to do that if the phone keeps the NAT tunnel open.
>>
>>
>> SNOM 300
>> and Gigaset N510 IP PRO with Gigaset S700 H Pro handsets
>>
>> The phones "register" with Voipfone, which presumably avoids any
>> problems with NAT.
>
> I spoke to VOIPfone re this
> https://www.voipfone.co.uk/shop.php?method=view&pid=142
> and it needs port 5060 open to the internal LAN.
>
> I currently have port 5060 open in NAT, with a source IP from A&A (a
> sort of firewall) and a dest IP of the actual Snom phone. AIUI a port
> like 5060 *must* be forwarded to a given internal IP, or is that
> optional? One obviously does want to accept 5060 packets only from
> specific origin IPs otherwise half of china will be in there.
>
> So it looks like I can create another rule where 5060 is open to
> packets from Voipfone source IP(s) and a dest IP of their little box.
>
> I will get one of these and test it. It won't have my landline number
> (they come with some funny number) so I can test it.
>
> Then when Voda turn up with their stupid useless router I can chuck it
> in the bin and config the PPPOE credentials in the Draytek and
> internet "should work" but I won't have a phone. Then on the same day
> I can port the landline number to the Voipfone service.
>
> Does that sounds reasonable?
>
> I cannot believe that everybody who goes to Voda for FTTP loses their
> VPNs and everything else. It MUST be possible to use your own router.
>

You might find this helpful

https://www.draytek.co.uk/support/guides/kb-fttp-wan-setup

And yes lots of people use non VF supplied routers on the VF FTTP service.

I’ve read elsewhere that your Vigor router might not keep up if you’ve
ordered one of the faster FTTP speeds.

Peter wrote:

[snip]

> I spoke to VOIPfone re this
> https://www.voipfone.co.uk/shop.php?method=view&pid=142
> and it needs port 5060 open to the internal LAN.

I'm not familiar with the Grandstream device, but have previously used a
Linksys ATA, and that did not need any special configuration of the
router. Tested with a Vigor 2830 and a TP-Link TD-W8960N.

Experience with SNOM 300 and the Gigaset N510 IP PRO confirms that no
port opening is required. So I don't know why Voipfone suggest it.

> I currently have port 5060 open in NAT, with a source IP from A&A (a
> sort of firewall) and a dest IP of the actual Snom phone. AIUI a port
> like 5060 *must* be forwarded to a given internal IP, or is that
> optional? One obviously does want to accept 5060 packets only from
> specific origin IPs otherwise half of china will be in there.

This may be the way that A&A choose to implement their VoIP service.

> So it looks like I can create another rule where 5060 is open to
> packets from Voipfone source IP(s) and a dest IP of their little box.
>
> I will get one of these and test it. It won't have my landline number
> (they come with some funny number) so I can test it.

Good idea. If you order it from Voipfone they will configure it
correctly for you.

> Then when Voda turn up with their stupid useless router I can chuck it
> in the bin and config the PPPOE credentials in the Draytek and
> internet "should work" but I won't have a phone. Then on the same day
> I can port the landline number to the Voipfone service.
>
> Does that sounds reasonable?

Yes.
> I cannot believe that everybody who goes to Voda for FTTP loses their
> VPNs and everything else. It MUST be possible to use your own router.

In the global scheme of things using your own router for its VPN
capability is VERY UNUSUAL.

--
Graham J

>Experience with SNOM 300 and the Gigaset N510 IP PRO confirms that no
>port opening is required. So I don't know why Voipfone suggest it.

Unless you a keep-aline for the NAT tunnel, you cannot receive
incoming calls.

>> I will get one of these and test it. It won't have my landline number
>> (they come with some funny number) so I can test it.
>
>Good idea. If you order it from Voipfone they will configure it
>correctly for you.

I can't set up voipfone either, believe it or not. Their account conf
email vanishes in the Hornet Security spam filter, although their
original purchase conf email arrived ok. You could not make this up.
They cannot override this manually due to "security" even after I sent
them their own email.

>> Then when Voda turn up with their stupid useless router I can chuck it
>> in the bin and config the PPPOE credentials in the Draytek and
>> internet "should work" but I won't have a phone. Then on the same day
>> I can port the landline number to the Voipfone service.
>>
>> Does that sounds reasonable?
>
>Yes.
>> I cannot believe that everybody who goes to Voda for FTTP loses their
>> VPNs and everything else. It MUST be possible to use your own router.
>
>In the global scheme of things using your own router for its VPN
>capability is VERY UNUSUAL.

One could debate that... :) What about at one's office?

Peter <nospam@nospam9876.com> wrote:
>
> >Experience with SNOM 300 and the Gigaset N510 IP PRO confirms that no
> >port opening is required. So I don't know why Voipfone suggest it.
>
> Unless you a keep-aline for the NAT tunnel, you cannot receive
> incoming calls.

I think SIP clients typically do use a keepalive on their connection, for
this reason.

I'm considering a move to VF, anyone know if third party VOIP (A&A) works
out of the box on their router? I've never had an ISP where it didn't work
(worst case with some router tweaking), but just curious if anyone can
confirm.

> >In the global scheme of things using your own router for its VPN
> >capability is VERY UNUSUAL.
>
> One could debate that... :) What about at one's office?

They are typically not using a consumer FTTP service, which is what we're
talking about here. You can of course have a business service and connect
your on-prem Cisco router to the end of it, but that's a different ballgame.

Theo

Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
> Phone line rental and POTS voice was with Zen. FTTC with A&A. Phone line
> converted to wires only and billed by A&A, phone number ported to A&A VOIP.
> A&A FTTC service survived the ordeal unscathed.

SFAIK A&A's ability to extract the number out of an operating PSTN line
depends on them providing both the phone line and the broadband. You can't
do it if somebody else runs the broadband.

Theo

On 24/08/2023 14:12, Theo wrote:
> Peter <nospam@nospam9876.com> wrote:
>>> Experience with SNOM 300 and the Gigaset N510 IP PRO confirms that no
>>> port opening is required. So I don't know why Voipfone suggest it.
>> Unless you a keep-aline for the NAT tunnel, you cannot receive
>> incoming calls.
> I think SIP clients typically do use a keepalive on their connection, for
> this reason.
>
> I'm considering a move to VF, anyone know if third party VOIP (A&A) works
> out of the box on their router?
I would have thought so. VF are just a bargain basement ISP aimed at the
mass market, their router will have its doors 'wide open' to keep any
pesky support calls from gamers, or streamers at bay (due to possible
closed ports)

On 24/08/2023 14:15, Theo wrote:
> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Phone line rental and POTS voice was with Zen. FTTC with A&A. Phone line
>> converted to wires only and billed by A&A, phone number ported to A&A VOIP.
>> A&A FTTC service survived the ordeal unscathed.
> SFAIK A&A's ability to extract the number out of an operating PSTN line
> depends on them providing both the phone line and the broadband. You can't
> do it if somebody else runs the broadband.
>
That's right. I think it's based upon Openreach's 'Re-number and
Re-provide' scheme, of which A&A are the only ISP to have taken it up,
(owing to their reassuringly expensiveness)

Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

>I think SIP clients typically do use a keepalive on their connection, for
>this reason.

IME this sometimes exists and sometimes it has to be set up. The Snom
phones have a STUN (?) server config. Years ago I got an old Nokia 808
phone working on VOIP (on WIFI), incoming too. Nokia specialised in
corporate products for that... My current Snom phones do not use this,
AFAICT, hence I had to do the port fwd in NAT for them. Maybe they can
but A&A sure didn't mention that, and they would have done because it
makes life so much easier.

>I'm considering a move to VF, anyone know if third party VOIP (A&A) works
>out of the box on their router? I've never had an ISP where it didn't work
>(worst case with some router tweaking), but just curious if anyone can
>confirm.

I will be running a Voipfone 801 box on a Draytek 2955 on Voda ADSL
pretty soon...

>> >In the global scheme of things using your own router for its VPN
>> >capability is VERY UNUSUAL.
>>
>> One could debate that... :) What about at one's office?
>
>They are typically not using a consumer FTTP service, which is what we're
>talking about here. You can of course have a business service and connect
>your on-prem Cisco router to the end of it, but that's a different ballgame.

Isn't it just pricing? "Business" is 40 quid a month and upwards.

I work from home. Is that "consumer" or "business"? The Voda product
is called "business broadband".

VF has been excellent, on both phones (GSM and landline) and ADSL.
Zero downtime over maybe 10 years. Muppet call centres but they have
always had good people running the systems.

25 quid a month for 75mbps, minus 50% for 1st year, is hard to argue
with.

I've just looked at A&A pricing and it is much more than VF, for half
the speed, and with total data caps (admittedly at a high level like
1TB).

Mark Carver <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 24/08/2023 14:15, Theo wrote:
>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Phone line rental and POTS voice was with Zen. FTTC with A&A. Phone line
>>> converted to wires only and billed by A&A, phone number ported to A&A VOIP.
>>> A&A FTTC service survived the ordeal unscathed.
>> SFAIK A&A's ability to extract the number out of an operating PSTN line
>> depends on them providing both the phone line and the broadband. You can't
>> do it if somebody else runs the broadband.
>>
> That's right. I think it's based upon Openreach's 'Re-number and
> Re-provide' scheme, of which A&A are the only ISP to have taken it up,
> (owing to their reassuringly expensiveness)
>
>

Point is, A&A did not provide the phone line or phone number prior to the
the change, only the broadband,