"Roland Perry" <roland@perry.uk> wrote in message
news:knVd$SBl8I$kFAk+@perry.uk...
> In message <uq2dnUVUlLw3e2f5nZ2dnZfqn_WdnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>, at
> 10:17:28 on Fri, 8 Sep 2023, billy bookcase <billy@anon.com> remarked:
>>
>>"Roland Perry" <roland@perry.uk> wrote in message
>>news:ym1AtzZ0GX+kFAfB@perry.uk...
>>> In message <v2mdnWc2kqCXKmX5nZ2dnZfqnPGdnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>, at
>>> 18:29:44 on Wed, 6 Sep 2023, billy bookcase <billy@anon.com> remarked:
>>>>
>>>>"Roland Perry" <roland@perry.uk> wrote in message
>>>>news:rZ+wCw9BIx9kFAnm@perry.uk...
>>>>>
>>>>> It's the IBM PC which was 10x the price of the PCW. And don't forget
>>>>> the
>>>>> 24pin printer.
>>>>
>>>>Er I think you mean the 9 pin printer.
>>>
>>> If you were slumming it, but the PCW did 24pin quality (as well as
>>> 'draft'
>>> in 8 pin).
>>>
>>>>At the time a 24 pin printer would probably have cost
>>>>as much as a whole PCW
>>>
>>> Well spotted. And that expensive 24pin printer (I had a Centronics one
>>> just for LOLs) had more chips inside than the whole PCW and bundled
>>> printer.
>>>
>>>>Nevertheless, straight out of the, box just connect it up
>>>>and you're printing pound signs straight away. Who needs
>>>>15 extra pins ?
>>>
>>> If you are writing a letter to someone (remember, the PCW was a
>>> typewriter
>>> replacement) then 8pin quality really isn't sufficient.
>>>
>>> I think one of the more complex characters we supported was the
>>> Icelandic
>>> Thorn. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorn_(letter)
>>>
>>> Some people didn't think 24pin was good enough though, and so we did a
>>> version 2 with a daisywheel printer, which required changing from one
>>> character set to another, as well as one typeface to another. A dot
>>> matrix
>>> printer is more versatile.
>>>
>>> Sales volumes were disappointingly low, probably because most people
>>> were
>>> happy with the dot matrix, and just wanted the warm glow of "if we
>>> needed
>>> daisywheel quality, there's a machine we could buy" a bit like rural bus
>>> services where people lobby to have them in place, but don't ever use
>>> them.
>>>
>>> Meanwhile, despite some lack of Google-Fu exhibited here, I've just
>>> found
>>> a reference to Roller-RAM:
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Display_list
>>>
>>> The Amstrad PCW family contains a Display List function called the
>>> 'Roller RAM'. This is a 512-byte RAM area consisting of 256 16-bit
>>> vectors into RAM, one for each line of the 720 � 256 pixel display.
>>> Each vector identifies the location of 90 bytes of monochrome pixels
>>> that hold the line's 720 pixel states. The 90 bytes of 8 pixel states
>>> are actually spaced at 8-byte intervals, so there are 7 unused bytes
>>> between each byte of pixel data. This suits how the text-orientated
>>> PCW constructs a typical screen buffer in RAM, where the first
>>> character's 8 rows are stored in the first 8 bytes, the second
>>> character's rows in the next 8 bytes and so on. The Roller RAM was
>>> implemented to speed up display scrolling as it would have been
>>> unacceptably slow for its 3.4 MHz Z80 to move up the 23 KB display
>>> buffer 'by hand' i.e. in software. The Roller RAM starting entry used
>>> at the beginning of a screen refresh is controlled by a Z80-writable
>>> I/O register. Therefore, the screen can be scrolled simply by changing
>>> this I/O register.
>>
>>Jolly well done! The truth finally emerges !
>>
>>However, (and there often is a "however") try as I might, I'm unable to
>>find a single mention of an "8" pin dot matrix printer anywhere, as you
>>mention above. It's all 9 pin and 24 pin. Now from what I know of Sugar
>>it wouldn't surprse me at all to learn, he'd bought up whole warehouses
>>full of otherwise totally obsolete and unsalable "8" pin dot matrix
>>printers
>>at say 20p a pop. But again, there's no mention of these fabled 8 pin
>>printers anywhere.
>
> The printer mechanisms, however many pins they had,

How do you means "however many pins they had" ?

First it was 24. then it became 8.

Don't you actually know ?

As I would have thought it would have made a big difference to
whoever was tasked with actually getting the things to work;
never mind actually print "�" signs straight out of the box.

> like the FDDs,
> were all manufactured specifically for Amstrad.

With tooling and capacity which would otherwise have been
scrapped

The 3 in floppy was designed by Hitachi, Matsushita and Maxell,
and introduced in 1982. They were probably grateful somebody
eventually took them up, which gave Sugar greater bargaining
power. But fair play to Sugar, the 3 in discs themselves
were probably slightly more robust than the 3.5 and
came supplied in a "jewel case". In the days when both
software and months worth of work might be stored on
disc, this would have been an important consideration.

A few days ago in a local Wilko I was able to buy two
Integral 128 gb that's 128 GIGABYTE, memory sticks, for
SIX QUID each. That's probably around the same price as
one or two 3in D/D disks holding around 360kb on each
side. Only USB 1, but ok for overnight backups etc

> The idea that there
> was a warehouse with 8 million obsolete/unsaleable ones is beyond
> preposterous.

The only 8 pint printer I could find for "general use" was
manufactured by Epsom in 1980 and was immediately superseded
the following year by a superior 9 pin model. So that as a
result, other than buying up obsolete stock, I was and am finding it
difficult to understand why Sugar would lumber his developers
with a "clearly inferior" 8 pin head, with which to work

as you claimed above

" If you were slumming it, but the PCW did 24pin quality (as well
as 'draft'in 8 pin).

BTW this claim that the PCW did "24 pin quality" seems a bit iffy
as well. As no matter how much you jiggle it around, you can't
put pins whre pins have never been. More marketing hype, no doubt

bb

In message <udfdpf$3ghtm$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:14:55 on Fri, 8 Sep
2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>On Fri, 8 Sep 2023 12:42:35 +0100
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>In message <udc2k7$2u5gl$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:46:00 on Thu, 7 Sep
>>2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>Because what you needed was a word processor, not a games machine. And a
>>>>company buying Amigas for the typing pool would be a laughing stock.
>>>
>>>You've never used an Amiga have you.
>>
>>What I have or have not done is irrelevant (and as it happens I worked
>
>So "no".

It's irrelevant.

>>with one of its designers for a year). I'm not the person who would be
>
>So what?

He told me a lot about the target market.

>>laughing stock, it's the buyer for the typing pool.
>>
>>Wrong posting pt1.
>
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga_productivity_software
>
>If you think its just a games machine then clearly you stopped paying
>attention to the computer market around the time you left amstrad and became
>a paid waffler for a living.

I think you mis-spelled "influencer".

>FWIW with the Video Toaster card it was a staple of video production, CGI
>and TV stations for a decade.

Sure, but that's a different target market.

>Word processing it could do in its sleep.

But almost nobody would seriously buy one for mainly that.

>>>Some things are a false economy.
>>
>>But not the PCW.
>
>If we're talking about Kewneys comment about using it as a general purpose
>computer - which was this discussion - then yes, it is. If all you need is
>a WP then no problem.

Plus all the CP/M small-business software. Sage only exists because they
got into that market first.

>>>I'm sure thats what IBM thought about their BIOS when they took Compaq to
>>>court. Turned out it was a clean room implementation so they lost the case.
>>
>>Only Compaq, not hundreds of other people, had deep enough pockets to
>>commission clan room BIOS. That was sufficient of a delaying tactic. But
>>I said that already.
>
>Most cartridge protection systems were cracked.

Eventually. But what's that got to do with IBM delaying PC-Cloning?

>If the GX4000 had shifted a few million units yours would have been
>too.

But we'd have been able to sue the crackers.
--
Roland Perry

In message <udi3be$4j7q$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:35:10 on Sat, 9 Sep
2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>On Sat, 9 Sep 2023 16:28:37 +0100
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:

>>The printer mechanisms, however many pins they had, like the FDDs,
>>were all manufactured specifically for Amstrad. The idea that there
>>was a warehouse with 8 million obsolete/unsaleable ones is beyond
>>preposterous.
>
>I bet there was a warehouse of 3 inch disks and drives that nobody except
>amstrad wanted towards the end of the 80s.

You'd lose that bet. And of course you've completely lost the plot,
which was that allegedly in 1983 we chose the 3" format because there
was already such a warehouse. There wasn't.
--
Roland Perry

In message <eqednc1qNOcq42D5nZ2dnZfqn_ednZ2d@brightview.co.uk>, at
09:30:44 on Sun, 10 Sep 2023, billy bookcase <billy@anon.com> remarked:
>
>"Roland Perry" <roland@perry.uk> wrote in message
>news:knVd$SBl8I$kFAk+@perry.uk...
>> In message <uq2dnUVUlLw3e2f5nZ2dnZfqn_WdnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>, at
>> 10:17:28 on Fri, 8 Sep 2023, billy bookcase <billy@anon.com> remarked:
>>>
>>>"Roland Perry" <roland@perry.uk> wrote in message
>>>news:ym1AtzZ0GX+kFAfB@perry.uk...
>>>> In message <v2mdnWc2kqCXKmX5nZ2dnZfqnPGdnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>, at
>>>> 18:29:44 on Wed, 6 Sep 2023, billy bookcase <billy@anon.com> remarked:
>>>>>
>>>>>"Roland Perry" <roland@perry.uk> wrote in message
>>>>>news:rZ+wCw9BIx9kFAnm@perry.uk...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's the IBM PC which was 10x the price of the PCW. And don't forget
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> 24pin printer.
>>>>>
>>>>>Er I think you mean the 9 pin printer.
>>>>
>>>> If you were slumming it, but the PCW did 24pin quality (as well as
>>>> 'draft'
>>>> in 8 pin).
>>>>
>>>>>At the time a 24 pin printer would probably have cost
>>>>>as much as a whole PCW
>>>>
>>>> Well spotted. And that expensive 24pin printer (I had a Centronics one
>>>> just for LOLs) had more chips inside than the whole PCW and bundled
>>>> printer.
>>>>
>>>>>Nevertheless, straight out of the, box just connect it up
>>>>>and you're printing pound signs straight away. Who needs
>>>>>15 extra pins ?
>>>>
>>>> If you are writing a letter to someone (remember, the PCW was a
>>>> typewriter
>>>> replacement) then 8pin quality really isn't sufficient.
>>>>
>>>> I think one of the more complex characters we supported was the
>>>> Icelandic
>>>> Thorn. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorn_(letter)
>>>>
>>>> Some people didn't think 24pin was good enough though, and so we did a
>>>> version 2 with a daisywheel printer, which required changing from one
>>>> character set to another, as well as one typeface to another. A dot
>>>> matrix
>>>> printer is more versatile.
>>>>
>>>> Sales volumes were disappointingly low, probably because most people
>>>> were
>>>> happy with the dot matrix, and just wanted the warm glow of "if we
>>>> needed
>>>> daisywheel quality, there's a machine we could buy" a bit like rural bus
>>>> services where people lobby to have them in place, but don't ever use
>>>> them.
>>>>
>>>> Meanwhile, despite some lack of Google-Fu exhibited here, I've just
>>>> found
>>>> a reference to Roller-RAM:
>>>>
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Display_list
>>>>
>>>> The Amstrad PCW family contains a Display List function called the
>>>> 'Roller RAM'. This is a 512-byte RAM area consisting of 256 16-bit
>>>> vectors into RAM, one for each line of the 720 × 256 pixel display.
>>>> Each vector identifies the location of 90 bytes of monochrome pixels
>>>> that hold the line's 720 pixel states. The 90 bytes of 8 pixel states
>>>> are actually spaced at 8-byte intervals, so there are 7 unused bytes
>>>> between each byte of pixel data. This suits how the text-orientated
>>>> PCW constructs a typical screen buffer in RAM, where the first
>>>> character's 8 rows are stored in the first 8 bytes, the second
>>>> character's rows in the next 8 bytes and so on. The Roller RAM was
>>>> implemented to speed up display scrolling as it would have been
>>>> unacceptably slow for its 3.4 MHz Z80 to move up the 23 KB display
>>>> buffer 'by hand' i.e. in software. The Roller RAM starting entry used
>>>> at the beginning of a screen refresh is controlled by a Z80-writable
>>>> I/O register. Therefore, the screen can be scrolled simply by changing
>>>> this I/O register.
>>>
>>>Jolly well done! The truth finally emerges !
>>>
>>>However, (and there often is a "however") try as I might, I'm unable to
>>>find a single mention of an "8" pin dot matrix printer anywhere, as you
>>>mention above. It's all 9 pin and 24 pin. Now from what I know of Sugar
>>>it wouldn't surprse me at all to learn, he'd bought up whole warehouses
>>>full of otherwise totally obsolete and unsalable "8" pin dot matrix
>>>printers
>>>at say 20p a pop. But again, there's no mention of these fabled 8 pin
>>>printers anywhere.
>>
>> The printer mechanisms, however many pins they had,
>
>How do you means "however many pins they had" ?
>
>First it was 24. then it became 8.
>
>Don't you actually know ?

The effect of a 24 pin printer was achieved by doing multiple passes
with the smaller number of pins, with tiny steps between one pass and
the next.

>As I would have thought it would have made a big difference to
>whoever was tasked with actually getting the things to work;
>never mind actually print "£" signs straight out of the box.

Obviously it printed the entire character set, either in draft or high
quality "out of the box". What's your point?

>> like the FDDs,
>> were all manufactured specifically for Amstrad.
>
>With tooling and capacity which would otherwise have been
>scrapped

No. The tooling and capacity was started from scratch. The main
differentiator between the early 3" drives and ours was that the
former had a cast aluminum chassis (just like bigger drives)
whereas ours had a folded steel chassis.

>The 3 in floppy was designed by Hitachi, Matsushita and Maxell,
>and introduced in 1982. They were probably grateful somebody
>eventually took them up, which gave Sugar greater bargaining
>power.

Yes, that's the media, which had the unique capability that it was
designed to be sufficiently weather proof you could stick an address
label and stamp on the from and mail it to someone.

We didn't need that capability, but there was no other media available
at anything like the price/performance point. 3.5" drives weren't
endorsed by IBM until several years later, and cost almost as such
as a whole PCW.

Runner-up was a 2" floppy which was a shrunken 5.25" media, and as far
as I know was never put into production by anyone. (But I did have a
pre-production sample).

>But fair play to Sugar, the 3 in discs themselves
>were probably slightly more robust than the 3.5 and
>came supplied in a "jewel case". In the days when both
>software and months worth of work might be stored on
>disc, this would have been an important consideration.

See comments above about mail-ability.

>A few days ago in a local Wilko I was able to buy two
>Integral 128 gb that's 128 GIGABYTE, memory sticks, for
>SIX QUID each. That's probably around the same price as
>one or two 3in D/D disks holding around 360kb on each
>side. Only USB 1, but ok for overnight backups etc

Oh dear, never heard of Moores Law?

>> The idea that there
>> was a warehouse with 8 million obsolete/unsaleable ones is beyond
>> preposterous.
>
>The only 8 pint printer I could find for "general use" was
>manufactured by Epsom

That's where the Derby is.

>in 1980 and was immediately superseded the following year by a superior
>9 pin model. So that as a result, other than buying up obsolete stock,
>I was and am finding it difficult to understand why Sugar would lumber
>his developers with a "clearly inferior" 8 pin head, with which to work
>as you claimed above

Oh really! We used the mechanism to produce 24 pin quality by multiple
passes. Everything else is disinformation.

>" If you were slumming it, but the PCW did 24pin quality (as well
>as 'draft'in 8 pin).
>
>BTW this claim that the PCW did "24 pin quality" seems a bit iffy
>as well. As no matter how much you jiggle it around, you can't
>put pins whre pins have never been. More marketing hype, no doubt

We did it with multiple passes. Your ignorance of the technology is
becoming beyond tedious.
--
Roland Perry

"Roland Perry" <roland@perry.uk> wrote in message
news:5fDMgTvOlJAlFAou@perry.uk...
> In message <eqednc1qNOcq42D5nZ2dnZfqn_ednZ2d@brightview.co.uk>, at
> 09:30:44 on Sun, 10 Sep 2023, billy bookcase <billy@anon.com> remarked:
>>
>>"Roland Perry" <roland@perry.uk> wrote in message
>>news:knVd$SBl8I$kFAk+@perry.uk...
>>> In message <uq2dnUVUlLw3e2f5nZ2dnZfqn_WdnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>, at
>>> 10:17:28 on Fri, 8 Sep 2023, billy bookcase <billy@anon.com> remarked:
>>>>
>>>>"Roland Perry" <roland@perry.uk> wrote in message
>>>>news:ym1AtzZ0GX+kFAfB@perry.uk...
>>>>> In message <v2mdnWc2kqCXKmX5nZ2dnZfqnPGdnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>, at
>>>>> 18:29:44 on Wed, 6 Sep 2023, billy bookcase <billy@anon.com> remarked:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"Roland Perry" <roland@perry.uk> wrote in message
>>>>>>news:rZ+wCw9BIx9kFAnm@perry.uk...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's the IBM PC which was 10x the price of the PCW. And don't forget
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> 24pin printer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Er I think you mean the 9 pin printer.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you were slumming it, but the PCW did 24pin quality (as well as
>>>>> 'draft'
>>>>> in 8 pin).
>>>>>
>>>>>>At the time a 24 pin printer would probably have cost
>>>>>>as much as a whole PCW
>>>>>
>>>>> Well spotted. And that expensive 24pin printer (I had a Centronics one
>>>>> just for LOLs) had more chips inside than the whole PCW and bundled
>>>>> printer.
>>>>>
>>>>>>Nevertheless, straight out of the, box just connect it up
>>>>>>and you're printing pound signs straight away. Who needs
>>>>>>15 extra pins ?
>>>>>
>>>>> If you are writing a letter to someone (remember, the PCW was a
>>>>> typewriter
>>>>> replacement) then 8pin quality really isn't sufficient.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think one of the more complex characters we supported was the
>>>>> Icelandic
>>>>> Thorn. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorn_(letter)
>>>>>
>>>>> Some people didn't think 24pin was good enough though, and so we did a
>>>>> version 2 with a daisywheel printer, which required changing from one
>>>>> character set to another, as well as one typeface to another. A dot
>>>>> matrix
>>>>> printer is more versatile.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sales volumes were disappointingly low, probably because most people
>>>>> were
>>>>> happy with the dot matrix, and just wanted the warm glow of "if we
>>>>> needed
>>>>> daisywheel quality, there's a machine we could buy" a bit like rural
>>>>> bus
>>>>> services where people lobby to have them in place, but don't ever use
>>>>> them.
>>>>>
>>>>> Meanwhile, despite some lack of Google-Fu exhibited here, I've just
>>>>> found
>>>>> a reference to Roller-RAM:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Display_list
>>>>>
>>>>> The Amstrad PCW family contains a Display List function called the
>>>>> 'Roller RAM'. This is a 512-byte RAM area consisting of 256 16-bit
>>>>> vectors into RAM, one for each line of the 720 � 256 pixel display.
>>>>> Each vector identifies the location of 90 bytes of monochrome pixels
>>>>> that hold the line's 720 pixel states. The 90 bytes of 8 pixel states
>>>>> are actually spaced at 8-byte intervals, so there are 7 unused bytes
>>>>> between each byte of pixel data. This suits how the text-orientated
>>>>> PCW constructs a typical screen buffer in RAM, where the first
>>>>> character's 8 rows are stored in the first 8 bytes, the second
>>>>> character's rows in the next 8 bytes and so on. The Roller RAM was
>>>>> implemented to speed up display scrolling as it would have been
>>>>> unacceptably slow for its 3.4 MHz Z80 to move up the 23 KB display
>>>>> buffer 'by hand' i.e. in software. The Roller RAM starting entry
>>>>> used
>>>>> at the beginning of a screen refresh is controlled by a Z80-writable
>>>>> I/O register. Therefore, the screen can be scrolled simply by
>>>>> changing
>>>>> this I/O register.
>>>>
>>>>Jolly well done! The truth finally emerges !
>>>>
>>>>However, (and there often is a "however") try as I might, I'm unable to
>>>>find a single mention of an "8" pin dot matrix printer anywhere, as you
>>>>mention above. It's all 9 pin and 24 pin. Now from what I know of Sugar
>>>>it wouldn't surprse me at all to learn, he'd bought up whole warehouses
>>>>full of otherwise totally obsolete and unsalable "8" pin dot matrix
>>>>printers
>>>>at say 20p a pop. But again, there's no mention of these fabled 8 pin
>>>>printers anywhere.
>>>
>>> The printer mechanisms, however many pins they had,
>>
>>How do you means "however many pins they had" ?
>>
>>First it was 24. then it became 8.
>>
>>Don't you actually know ?
>
> The effect of a 24 pin printer was achieved by doing multiple passes with
> the smaller number of pins, with tiny steps between one pass and the next.

That "smaller number" being what precisely ?

Eight, or nine ?

That's not too much to ask, is it ? Which was it ?

>
>>As I would have thought it would have made a big difference to
>>whoever was tasked with actually getting the things to work;
>>never mind actually print "�" signs straight out of the box.
>
> Obviously it printed the entire character set, either in draft or high
> quality "out of the box". What's your point?

But before anyone was able to achieve that, they would have needed
to know at the time how many pins there actually were. Which was
either eight or nine. You've previously stated quite unequivocally
that it was eight. All that's now needed is confirmation of that fact.

>
>>> like the FDDs,
>>> were all manufactured specifically for Amstrad.
>>
>>With tooling and capacity which would otherwise have been
>>scrapped
>
> No. The tooling and capacity was started from scratch. The main
> differentiator between the early 3" drives and ours was that the
> former had a cast aluminum chassis (just like bigger drives)
> whereas ours had a folded steel chassis.

Fair enough. Given that using cast aluminium would have been
far more expensive. However presumably the dimensions of both chassis
were identical - given that you started your chassis from scratch
this presumably allowed you to design it so as to be able to make
use of all the existing tooling for all the other components.

>
>>The 3 in floppy was designed by Hitachi, Matsushita and Maxell,
>>and introduced in 1982. They were probably grateful somebody
>>eventually took them up, which gave Sugar greater bargaining
>>power.
>
> Yes, that's the media, which had the unique capability that it was
> designed to be sufficiently weather proof you could stick an address label
> and stamp on the from and mail it to someone.
>
> We didn't need that capability, but there was no other media available at
> anything like the price/performance point. 3.5" drives weren't endorsed by
> IBM until several years later, and cost almost as such
> as a whole PCW.
>
> Runner-up was a 2" floppy which was a shrunken 5.25" media, and as far as
> I know was never put into production by anyone. (But I did have a
> pre-production sample).
>
>>But fair play to Sugar, the 3 in discs themselves
>>were probably slightly more robust than the 3.5 and
>>came supplied in a "jewel case". In the days when both
>>software and months worth of work might be stored on
>>disc, this would have been an important consideration.
>
> See comments above about mail-ability.
>
>>A few days ago in a local Wilko I was able to buy two
>>Integral 128 gb that's 128 GIGABYTE, memory sticks, for
>>SIX QUID each. That's probably around the same price as
>>one or two 3in D/D disks holding around 360kb on each
>>side. Only USB 1, but ok for overnight backups etc
>
> Oh dear, never heard of Moores Law?

billy bookcase <billy@anon.com> wrote:
>
> "Roland Perry" <roland@perry.uk> wrote in message
> news:5fDMgTvOlJAlFAou@perry.uk...
> >
> > The effect of a 24 pin printer was achieved by doing multiple passes with
> > the smaller number of pins, with tiny steps between one pass and the next.
>
> That "smaller number" being what precisely ?
>
> Eight, or nine ?
>
> That's not too much to ask, is it ? Which was it ?

The internet seems to suggest it was 9.

The multiple pass thing was standard on dot matrix printers of the time.
Epson 24-pin printers had LQ mode for 'letter quality', while a 9-pin
printer made two passes to get NLQ or 'near letter quality' (as Star called
it). It wasn't as good as a proper 24 pin, and it was slower, but it was
cheaper.

NLQ was a lot better than the single-pass 9-pin 'draft' mode - it was good
enough for correspondence that could pass for typewritten at first glance,
whereas draft was good enough for listings but looked amateur for
correspondence.

Theo

"Theo" <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote in message
news:SGs*Scdqz@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk...
> billy bookcase <billy@anon.com> wrote:
>>
>> "Roland Perry" <roland@perry.uk> wrote in message
>> news:5fDMgTvOlJAlFAou@perry.uk...
>> >
>> > The effect of a 24 pin printer was achieved by doing multiple passes
>> > with
>> > the smaller number of pins, with tiny steps between one pass and the
>> > next.
>>
>> That "smaller number" being what precisely ?
>>
>> Eight, or nine ?
>>
>> That's not too much to ask, is it ? Which was it ?
>
> The internet seems to suggest it was 9.

The internet also seems to suggest that Roland was the Project Manager
overseeing the development of the original PCW. A claim supported by
numerous other sources

And yet Roland is on record on this very newsgroup as claiming it had
8 pins *

quote:

"Roland Perry" <roland@perry.uk> wrote in message
news:ym1AtzZ0GX+kFAfB@perry.uk...

If you were slumming it, but the PCW did 24pin quality (as well as
'draft' in 8 pin).

:unquote

So the question is, who to believe ?

Now of course some might wish to argue that grown adults doggedly
trying to score trivial brownie points on social media is the very
height of childishness.

Whereas it would seem the likes of Alan Sugar, Elon Musk etc would
seem to disagree, never mind someone sat on train headed for
Scotland having been forced to drink what they wrongly assumed
was low alcohol lager.

>
> The multiple pass thing was standard on dot matrix printers of the time.
> Epson 24-pin printers had LQ mode for 'letter quality', while a 9-pin
> printer made two passes to get NLQ or 'near letter quality' (as Star
> called
> it). It wasn't as good as a proper 24 pin, and it was slower, but it was
> cheaper.

Makes sense. 9 pins are cheaper than 24 after all.

>
> NLQ was a lot better than the single-pass 9-pin 'draft' mode - it was good
> enough for correspondence that could pass for typewritten at first glance,
> whereas draft was good enough for listings but looked amateur for
> correspondence.

I had a Star 24 pin and origninl PCW printer and still have tables
printed on both or either. While not claiming to be an expert I would
imagine having a nice printed letterhead would have been a good
start with business letters more espcially if a "tech" aspect could
somehow be inferred.

Dot matrix were still essential for anything tractor fed where quality
wasn't the first priority but otherwise everything went straight out
of the window with the fall in price of lasers, and Bill, god bless
him commissioning a maybe inofficial Windows Postscript (busting)
interpeter

bb

* Whereas I myself could have sworn blind that Jack
Nicholson and Maria Schneider wandered through an orchard of
orange bearing trees in Spain, in "The Passenger"; having first
watched it around 10 years ago. In fact there were only two miserable
looking organges on stalks altogether, which knowing the director
Antonioni, were probably tied to the tree in any case

On Tue, 12 Sep 2023 17:44:18 +0100
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>In message <udfdpf$3ghtm$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:14:55 on Fri, 8 Sep
>>If you think its just a games machine then clearly you stopped paying
>>attention to the computer market around the time you left amstrad and became
>>a paid waffler for a living.
>
>I think you mis-spelled "influencer".

I think you mis-spelled "delusional".

>>If the GX4000 had shifted a few million units yours would have been
>>too.
>
>But we'd have been able to sue the crackers.

Yeah, good luck with that. They'd probably have been somewhere deep in
central or eastern europe.

On Tue, 12 Sep 2023 17:46:24 +0100
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>In message <udi3be$4j7q$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:35:10 on Sat, 9 Sep
>2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>On Sat, 9 Sep 2023 16:28:37 +0100
>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>
>>>The printer mechanisms, however many pins they had, like the FDDs,
>>>were all manufactured specifically for Amstrad. The idea that there
>>>was a warehouse with 8 million obsolete/unsaleable ones is beyond
>>>preposterous.
>>
>>I bet there was a warehouse of 3 inch disks and drives that nobody except
>>amstrad wanted towards the end of the 80s.
>
>You'd lose that bet. And of course you've completely lost the plot,
>which was that allegedly in 1983 we chose the 3" format because there
>was already such a warehouse. There wasn't.

I've no doubt Sir Grumpy got some nice delboy type deal on them.

In message <udsm4e$26lcu$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:57:02 on Wed, 13 Sep
2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>On Tue, 12 Sep 2023 17:44:18 +0100
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>In message <udfdpf$3ghtm$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:14:55 on Fri, 8 Sep

>>>If you think its just a games machine then clearly you stopped paying
>>>attention to the computer market around the time you left amstrad and became
>>>a paid waffler for a living.
>>
>>I think you mis-spelled "influencer".
>
>I think you mis-spelled "delusional".

Mirror mirror on the wall.

>>>If the GX4000 had shifted a few million units yours would have been
>>>too.
>>
>>But we'd have been able to sue the crackers.
>
>Yeah, good luck with that. They'd probably have been somewhere deep in
>central or eastern europe.

Doesn't matter where they are, they need to hire a silicon foundry to
make the pirate chips, and that foundry knows where they live.
--
Roland Perry

In message <-aucnU_DUKOsM534nZ2dnZfqnPSdnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>, at
19:30:05 on Tue, 12 Sep 2023, billy bookcase <billy@anon.com> remarked:
>>>A few days ago in a local Wilko I was able to buy two
>>>Integral 128 gb that's 128 GIGABYTE, memory sticks, for
>>>SIX QUID each. That's probably around the same price as
>>>one or two 3in D/D disks holding around 360kb on each
>>>side. Only USB 1, but ok for overnight backups etc
>>
>> Oh dear, never heard of Moores Law?
>
>Yes. But had Gordon Moore ever heard of Wilko ? Let alone the
>fact that they've gone into administration. Such that my
>*half price* memory stick was in fact, actually at the cost
>of people jobs ?

My local Wilko has an "everything must go" sale, but the maximum
discount is 50% most is 20% and some stuff is 0%

>>>> The idea that there was a warehouse with 8 million
>>>>obsolete/unsaleable ones is beyond preposterous.
>>>
>>>The only 8 pint

Oh, a gallon printer, was it?

>>>printer I could find for "general use" was manufactured by Epsom
>>
>> That's where the Derby is.
>
>I actually went back and checked I actually typed that.

I think you actually did (both).

>>>in 1980 and was immediately superseded the following year by a superior 9
>>>pin model. So that as a result, other than buying up obsolete stock, I was
>>>and am finding it difficult to understand why Sugar would lumber his
>>>developers with a "clearly inferior" 8 pin head, with which to work as you
>>>claimed above
>>
>> Oh really! We used the mechanism to produce 24 pin quality by multiple
>> passes. Everything else is disinformation.
>>
>>>" If you were slumming it, but the PCW did 24pin quality (as well
>>>as 'draft'in 8 pin).
>>>
>>>BTW this claim that the PCW did "24 pin quality" seems a bit iffy
>>>as well. As no matter how much you jiggle it around, you can't
>>>put pins whre pins have never been. More marketing hype, no doubt
>>
>> We did it with multiple passes. Your ignorance of the technology is
>> becoming beyond tedious.
>
>A technology of stepper motors, rails, and rubber belts wearing out
>three times as fast and taking three times as long.

Stepper motors and rails, but no rubber belts. And with many printers
lasting into this millenium you're a bit wonky with the longevity
prediction.

>I'm not knocking it, was obviously a substantial and unheralded
>achievement to get that close - if only you could actually remember how
>many pins there were.

Go on then - how many?
--
Roland Perry

In message <udsmae$26mr4$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:00:14 on Wed, 13 Sep
2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>On Tue, 12 Sep 2023 17:46:24 +0100
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>In message <udi3be$4j7q$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:35:10 on Sat, 9 Sep
>>2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>On Sat, 9 Sep 2023 16:28:37 +0100
>>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>>The printer mechanisms, however many pins they had, like the FDDs,
>>>>were all manufactured specifically for Amstrad. The idea that there
>>>>was a warehouse with 8 million obsolete/unsaleable ones is beyond
>>>>preposterous.
>>>
>>>I bet there was a warehouse of 3 inch disks and drives that nobody except
>>>amstrad wanted towards the end of the 80s.
>>
>>You'd lose that bet. And of course you've completely lost the plot,
>>which was that allegedly in 1983 we chose the 3" format because there
>>was already such a warehouse. There wasn't.
>
>I've no doubt Sir Grumpy got some nice delboy type deal on them.

You can't get any kind of deal on things which simply don't exist, but
are part of some co-ordinated disinformation campaign.
--
Roland Perry

In message <w6WcnRBpl86CA5z4nZ2dnZfqn_adnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>, at
12:33:49 on Wed, 13 Sep 2023, billy bookcase <billy@anon.com> remarked:

>someone sat on train headed for Scotland having been forced to drink
>what they wrongly assumed was low alcohol lager.

On the train to Scotland I was offered derisory amounts of Viura Blanco,
"A rounded white Rioja with a soft, exotic character and a little apple
freshness" by LNER.

I didn't assume it was lager. The no-alcohol lager was on a Scotrail
train, where they say their alcohol ban is for my safety.

The most unsafe thing about drinking on their trains is the likelihood
of tipping it into one's lap as it lurches from side to side.

Whereas on LNER, the glasses just slide from one side of the table to
the other as it goes around corners, but on the Avanti Pendolino they
stay put.
--
Roland Perry

On Thu, 14 Sep 2023 01:44:29 +0100
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>In message <udsm4e$26lcu$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:57:02 on Wed, 13 Sep
>2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>On Tue, 12 Sep 2023 17:44:18 +0100
>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>In message <udfdpf$3ghtm$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:14:55 on Fri, 8 Sep
>
>>>>If you think its just a games machine then clearly you stopped paying
>>>>attention to the computer market around the time you left amstrad and became
>
>>>>a paid waffler for a living.
>>>
>>>I think you mis-spelled "influencer".
>>
>>I think you mis-spelled "delusional".
>
>Mirror mirror on the wall.
>
>>>>If the GX4000 had shifted a few million units yours would have been
>>>>too.
>>>
>>>But we'd have been able to sue the crackers.
>>
>>Yeah, good luck with that. They'd probably have been somewhere deep in
>>central or eastern europe.
>
>Doesn't matter where they are, they need to hire a silicon foundry to
>make the pirate chips, and that foundry knows where they live.

And you track them down to Warsaw and then what? Send in the lads? By the
time you'd got any pre EU legal necessities sorted they'll be long gone and
all you'll find is an empty flat/warehouse. Get real.

On Thu, 14 Sep 2023 01:46:28 +0100
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>In message <udsmae$26mr4$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:00:14 on Wed, 13 Sep
>2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>On Tue, 12 Sep 2023 17:46:24 +0100
>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>In message <udi3be$4j7q$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:35:10 on Sat, 9 Sep
>>>2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>On Sat, 9 Sep 2023 16:28:37 +0100
>>>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>The printer mechanisms, however many pins they had, like the FDDs,
>>>>>were all manufactured specifically for Amstrad. The idea that there
>>>>>was a warehouse with 8 million obsolete/unsaleable ones is beyond
>>>>>preposterous.
>>>>
>>>>I bet there was a warehouse of 3 inch disks and drives that nobody except
>>>>amstrad wanted towards the end of the 80s.
>>>
>>>You'd lose that bet. And of course you've completely lost the plot,
>>>which was that allegedly in 1983 we chose the 3" format because there
>>>was already such a warehouse. There wasn't.
>>
>>I've no doubt Sir Grumpy got some nice delboy type deal on them.
>
>You can't get any kind of deal on things which simply don't exist, but
>are part of some co-ordinated disinformation campaign.

What do you mean don't exist? Amstrad didn't invent the 3 inch disk.

<Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote in message
news:udsmae$26mr4$1@dont-email.me...
> On Tue, 12 Sep 2023 17:46:24 +0100
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>In message <udi3be$4j7q$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:35:10 on Sat, 9 Sep
>>2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>On Sat, 9 Sep 2023 16:28:37 +0100
>>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>>The printer mechanisms, however many pins they had, like the FDDs,
>>>>were all manufactured specifically for Amstrad. The idea that there
>>>>was a warehouse with 8 million obsolete/unsaleable ones is beyond
>>>>preposterous.
>>>
>>>I bet there was a warehouse of 3 inch disks and drives that nobody except
>>>amstrad wanted towards the end of the 80s.
>>
>>You'd lose that bet. And of course you've completely lost the plot,
>>which was that allegedly in 1983 we chose the 3" format because there
>>was already such a warehouse. There wasn't.
>
> I've no doubt Sir Grumpy got some nice delboy type deal on them.

Delboy and Roland !

bb

"Roland Perry" <roland@perry.uk> wrote in message
news:U1hEeT9DllAlFAu8@perry.uk...
>>
>>A technology of stepper motors, rails, and rubber belts wearing out
>>three times as fast and taking three times as long.
>
> Stepper motors and rails, but no rubber belts. And with many printers
> lasting into this millenium you're a bit wonky with the longevity
> prediction.

I forget rollers to advance the paper a minimal amount. (half a pin
height at a time, at a wild guess )

But without rubber belts how was the print head moved back and forth
along the rail(s) ? The only alternative I can envisage is a geared
stepper motor attached to the print head acting directly on the rail.

The only prediction was that printers making three passes would only
last a third as long, as printers making a single pass. Quite possibly
there are aspiring novelists still out there tapping away at their PCWs
who have only ever printed out say, 800 pages in total.

>
>>I'm not knocking it, was obviously a substantial and unheralded
>>achievement to get that close - if only you could actually remember how
>>many pins there were.
>
> Go on then - how many?

I don't claim to know, I certainly can't remember and I have no source
of evidence such as an old printer knocking around or any documentary
evidence to consult.

You first confidently claimed there were eight pins. Are you still
standing by that claim ?

bb

> --
> Roland Perry

"Roland Perry" <roland@perry.uk> wrote in message
news:U1hEeT9DllAlFAu8@perry.uk...
>
> My local Wilko has an "everything must go" sale, but the maximum discount
> is 50% most is 20% and some stuff is 0%

In the three stores I know its all very unclear. There was a
poster with "Stationary 50% off", athough there were no prices
at all on the USB sticks. Checking at the till it turned out
that the USB1 128 gb were �6 and USB3 128gb were �15.

Unfortunately none the very handy self service terminals have
worked in any branch for weeks. Which meant long queues at the
till - often only one person serving with most staff re-arranging
the stock, even at busy times which possiblly also put people off.

I saw the end coming when Wilko decided to stock numerous
different lines in wild bird seed, whole aisles of robin food,
sunflower seed, etc etc. As compared with just one line in
bird seed in Poundland

bb

billy bookcase <billy@anon.com> wrote:
> I saw the end coming when Wilko decided to stock numerous
> different lines in wild bird seed, whole aisles of robin food,
> sunflower seed, etc etc. As compared with just one line in
> bird seed in Poundland

It is possible they're on different business models - Poundland wants to
shift as much stock as possible because a lot of the stock is their own,
Wilko got a kickback from the bird seed supplier for putting product on the
shelves where the punters can see it. Given Wilko's history of having
supply chain issues, maybe getting revenue from some suppliers is useful to
fill a gap where others won't send them stock.

Theo

"Theo" <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote in message
news:TGs*mrmqz@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk...
> billy bookcase <billy@anon.com> wrote:
>> I saw the end coming when Wilko decided to stock numerous
>> different lines in wild bird seed, whole aisles of robin food,
>> sunflower seed, etc etc. As compared with just one line in
>> bird seed in Poundland
>
> It is possible they're on different business models - Poundland wants to
> shift as much stock as possible because a lot of the stock is their own,
> Wilko got a kickback from the bird seed supplier for putting product on
> the
> shelves where the punters can see it. Given Wilko's history of having
> supply chain issues, maybe getting revenue from some suppliers is useful
> to
> fill a gap where others won't send them stock.

As it happens a Poundland is going to be taking over that site which
co-incidentally is a former Wooolworths. All of whom roughly speaking
would be paying the equivalent rent per square ft and given
similar aisle width, the same per linear foot of shelf space.

Given the area, suburban West London and the customer base I can't
see how any store could support that much variety of wild bird food;
it was simply an aberration.

Or to take another fairly specialised area small bandages, lint rolls,
waterproof tape, crepe bandages etc, All Wilko own brand, and probably
offering as much variety and far better value as does the Boots down the
road (a dreadful place with much narrower aisles); all too
good to be true, basically,

So that a member of the controlling Wilkinson family not only had an
abiding interest in wild birds but was also prone to cutting
themselves. Possibly while engaged in...

Same with DIY; first class tools, screws, fittings sold in wide aisled
well laid out shops, at too low a price given the likely turnover.

( I never had any problems with any of Wilko own brand stuff from
two part epoxy, to 3 ft aluminium straight edges to brake blocks)
While its noticeable that some Sainsburys are now offering various
"Rolson" branded small tools in their DIY sections - a portmanteau
brand of highly variable quality IMO, also seen in some Maplin
shops towards the end

Quite what Poundland will do with it is anybody's guess; but they'd
already pulled out from across the road a few years back; and what's
noticeable is the growth in food aisles in some of their stores.

bb

"billy bookcase" <billy@anon.com> wrote in message
news:5b6dnas0-siSY5_4nZ2dnZfqn_SdnZ2d@brightview.co.uk...
>
> "Roland Perry" <roland@perry.uk> wrote in message
> news:U1hEeT9DllAlFAu8@perry.uk...
>>
>> My local Wilko has an "everything must go" sale, but the maximum discount
>> is 50% most is 20% and some stuff is 0%
>
> In the three stores I know its all very unclear. There was a
> poster with "Stationary 50% off", athough there were no prices
> at all on the USB sticks. Checking at the till it turned out
> that the USB1 128 gb were �6

> and USB3 128gb were �15.

A bloody rip off !! They're only �9.48 on Amazon !

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Integral-128GB-Black-Flash-Drive/dp/B01H1VG338

I can't even find USB1 they were probably discontinued around 10 years ago.

bb

"billy bookcase" <billy@anon.com> wrote in message
news:__ScnSQEcKwS4Z74nZ2dnZfqnPGdnZ2d@brightview.co.uk...
>
> "billy bookcase" <billy@anon.com> wrote in message
> news:5b6dnas0-siSY5_4nZ2dnZfqn_SdnZ2d@brightview.co.uk...
>>
>> "Roland Perry" <roland@perry.uk> wrote in message
>> news:U1hEeT9DllAlFAu8@perry.uk...
>>>
>>> My local Wilko has an "everything must go" sale, but the maximum
>>> discount is 50% most is 20% and some stuff is 0%
>>
>> In the three stores I know its all very unclear. There was a
>> poster with "Stationary 50% off", athough there were no prices
>> at all on the USB sticks. Checking at the till it turned out
>> that the USB1 128 gb were �6
>
>> and USB3 128gb were �15.
>
> A bloody rip off !! They're only �9.48 on Amazon !
>
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Integral-128GB-Black-Flash-Drive/dp/B01H1VG338
>
> I can't even find USB1 they were probably discontinued around 10 years
> ago.

They're actually USB2 although not marked as such on the packaging, as they
have the black plastic insert in the plug.

Whereas USB extension leads as used to be sold in Poundland "are" USB 1
as they have white plastic inserts in the plug.

Live and learn,

bb

>
>
>
> bb
>

In message <5b6dnas0-siSY5_4nZ2dnZfqn_SdnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>, at
13:35:24 on Thu, 14 Sep 2023, billy bookcase <billy@anon.com> remarked:
>
>"Roland Perry" <roland@perry.uk> wrote in message
>news:U1hEeT9DllAlFAu8@perry.uk...
>>
>> My local Wilko has an "everything must go" sale, but the maximum discount
>> is 50% most is 20% and some stuff is 0%
>
>In the three stores I know its all very unclear. There was a
>poster with "Stationary 50% off",

Clearance sale at a standstill!

I went yesterday and they had half an aisle full of A4 printer paper
with a big sign saying it was still full price. Presumably it's
sufficiently a commodity they can sell it online or wherever once the
store has closed. Or maybe the paper doesn't belong to them and
whichever third party was renting that shelf-space from them would
rather make their own disposal arrangements.

>athough there were no prices at all on the USB sticks. Checking at the
>till it turned out that the USB1 128 gb were £6 and USB3 128gb were £15.
>
>Unfortunately none the very handy self service terminals have
>worked in any branch for weeks. Which meant long queues at the
>till - often only one person serving with most staff re-arranging
>the stock, even at busy times which possiblly also put people off.
>
>I saw the end coming when Wilko decided to stock numerous
>different lines in wild bird seed, whole aisles of robin food,
>sunflower seed, etc etc. As compared with just one line in
>bird seed in Poundland

They've been the walking-dead for about two years now. Needed some glue
about a month ago, and the whole section was empty. Replaced by a
display of a hundred dog-beds.
--
Roland Perry

In message <udugrt$2if15$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:39:25 on Thu, 14 Sep
2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>On Thu, 14 Sep 2023 01:44:29 +0100
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>In message <udsm4e$26lcu$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:57:02 on Wed, 13 Sep
>>2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>On Tue, 12 Sep 2023 17:44:18 +0100
>>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>In message <udfdpf$3ghtm$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:14:55 on Fri, 8 Sep
>>
>>>>>If you think its just a games machine then clearly you stopped paying
>>>>>attention to the computer market around the time you left amstrad
>>>>>and became
>>
>>>>>a paid waffler for a living.
>>>>
>>>>I think you mis-spelled "influencer".
>>>
>>>I think you mis-spelled "delusional".
>>
>>Mirror mirror on the wall.
>>
>>>>>If the GX4000 had shifted a few million units yours would have been
>>>>>too.
>>>>
>>>>But we'd have been able to sue the crackers.
>>>
>>>Yeah, good luck with that. They'd probably have been somewhere deep in
>>>central or eastern europe.
>>
>>Doesn't matter where they are, they need to hire a silicon foundry to
>>make the pirate chips, and that foundry knows where they live.
>
>And you track them down to Warsaw and then what? Send in the lads? By the
>time you'd got any pre EU legal necessities sorted they'll be long gone and
>all you'll find is an empty flat/warehouse. Get real.

To make pirate cartridges requires a silicon foundry to make the chips,
and someone else to make the plastic case and the retail packaging. If
the people who cracked the encryption have gone to ground, you can still
fatally disrupt that manufacturing cycle.
--
Roland Perry

In message <IdednUvKiL3aZ5_4nZ2dnZfqn_idnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>, at
13:19:17 on Thu, 14 Sep 2023, billy bookcase <billy@anon.com> remarked:
>
>"Roland Perry" <roland@perry.uk> wrote in message
>news:U1hEeT9DllAlFAu8@perry.uk...
>>>
>>>A technology of stepper motors, rails, and rubber belts wearing out
>>>three times as fast and taking three times as long.
>>
>> Stepper motors and rails, but no rubber belts. And with many printers
>> lasting into this millenium you're a bit wonky with the longevity
>> prediction.
>
>I forget rollers to advance the paper a minimal amount. (half a pin
>height at a time, at a wild guess )
>
>But without rubber belts how was the print head moved back and forth
>along the rail(s) ? The only alternative I can envisage is a geared
>stepper motor attached to the print head acting directly on the rail.

OK, the left/right motion on the printer head is by a toothed belt. The
head doesn't move up and down, it's the paper which is wrapped round a
roller that does that dimension.

You can do the sums yourself, but the most popular font size is probably
12 point, and that would be three passes for every line. Very slightly
advanced for each pass, then a big shift for the next line.

>The only prediction was that printers making three passes would only
>last a third as long, as printers making a single pass.

Printers expiring because of wear on the head was unheard of. In the
long term a bigger issue was the supply of new ribbons.

>Quite possibly there are aspiring novelists still out there tapping
>away at their PCWs who have only ever printed out say, 800 pages in
>total.

There may be some, but I'd expect the printer to be capable of hundreds
of pages a day, for years on end.

>>>I'm not knocking it, was obviously a substantial and unheralded
>>>achievement to get that close - if only you could actually remember how
>>>many pins there were.
>>
>> Go on then - how many?
>
>I don't claim to know, I certainly can't remember and I have no source
>of evidence such as an old printer knocking around or any documentary
>evidence to consult.
>
>You first confidently claimed there were eight pins. Are you still
>standing by that claim ?

It's eight or nine, but the important number is the effective quality
when printing not-in-draft.
--
Roland Perry