I can't get FreeView 69 on my older telly; I assumed that was, like the
other channel (two if you count the god one) I can't get on it, because
it is on the T2 ("HD") multiplex, "BBC B".

So I looked at
<https://www.freeview.co.uk/corporate/platform-management/channel-listing
s-industry-professionals>, to see if I was right. That has a column
headed Mux, and sure enough, all the usual suspects are there - BBC A,
D3&4, ARQ A, ARQ B, SDN, and BBC B. And sure enough, 5SELECT (46) and
TBN UK (66) are on BBC B, along with the HD versions of BBC ONE, BBC
TWO, ITV1, Channel 4, Channel 5, BBC FOUR, and BBC THREE (101-107).

But there also appears to be a mux called Local, which has 7, 8, 69, and
206-208. (There are also muxes called G-MAN and NI mux, though the
latter is obviously just for NI.)

Is this a seventh multiplex (not on Heathfield or any of my other local
transmitters), or does it just mean that which mux those channels are on
varies by location? If the latter, where do I find out? (same for G-MAN)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

The first banjo solo I played was actually just a series of mistakes. In fact
it was all the mistakes I knew at the time. - Tim Dowling, RT2015/6/20-26

On 01/02/2024 14:54, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> I can't get FreeView 69 on my older telly; I assumed that was, like the
> other channel (two if you count the god one) I can't get on it, because
> it is on the T2 ("HD") multiplex, "BBC B".
>
> So I looked at
> <https://www.freeview.co.uk/corporate/platform-management/channel-listing
> s-industry-professionals>, to see if I was right. That has a column
> headed Mux, and sure enough, all the usual suspects are there - BBC A,
> D3&4, ARQ A, ARQ B, SDN, and BBC B. And sure enough, 5SELECT (46) and
> TBN UK (66) are on BBC B, along with the HD versions of BBC ONE, BBC
> TWO, ITV1, Channel 4, Channel 5, BBC FOUR, and BBC THREE (101-107).
>
> But there also appears to be a mux called Local, which has 7, 8, 69, and
> 206-208. (There are also muxes called G-MAN and NI mux, though the
> latter is obviously just for NI.)
>
> Is this a seventh multiplex (not on Heathfield or any of my other local
> transmitters), or does it just mean that which mux those channels are on
> varies by location? If the latter, where do I find out? (same for G-MAN)

It is an additional MUX carried by some transmitters and with a
low-powered, narrow angle beam that only serves a large town/city.

York has/had one from a transmitter which is close to York on the
south-west side so it appears to be on the same bearing as Emley Moor
which serves York, so customers with an Emley-facing aerial will pick up
most of they muxes from EM and the Local one from the York transmitter.

On Thu 01/02/2024 15:56, NY wrote:
> On 01/02/2024 14:54, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>> I can't get FreeView 69 on my older telly; I assumed that was, like
>> the other channel (two if you count the god one) I can't get on it,
>> because it is on the T2 ("HD") multiplex, "BBC B".
>>
>> So I looked at
>> <https://www.freeview.co.uk/corporate/platform-management/channel-listing
>> s-industry-professionals>, to see if I was right. That has a column
>> headed Mux, and sure enough, all the usual suspects are there - BBC A,
>> D3&4, ARQ A, ARQ B, SDN, and BBC B. And sure enough, 5SELECT (46) and
>> TBN UK (66) are on BBC B, along with the HD versions of BBC ONE, BBC
>> TWO, ITV1, Channel 4, Channel 5, BBC FOUR, and BBC THREE (101-107).
>>
>> But there also appears to be a mux called Local, which has 7, 8, 69,
>> and 206-208. (There are also muxes called G-MAN and NI mux, though the
>> latter is obviously just for NI.)
>>
>> Is this a seventh multiplex (not on Heathfield or any of my other
>> local transmitters), or does it just mean that which mux those
>> channels are on varies by location? If the latter, where do I find
>> out? (same for G-MAN)
>
> It is an additional MUX carried by some transmitters and with a
> low-powered, narrow angle beam that only serves a large town/city.
>
> York has/had one from a transmitter which is close to York on the
> south-west side so it appears to be on the same bearing as Emley Moor
> which serves York, so customers with an Emley-facing aerial will pick up
> most of they muxes from EM and the Local one from the York transmitter.

York TV or analogue days was on the water tower at Askham Bryan beside
the junc of the A1237 and the A64. The structure but is no longer used.

The original proposal was to radiate York TV from Bilsdale - no-one darn
sarf who makes these decisions seemed to be aware that pretty well all
of the residents or York use Emley. Suddenly someone shook their cage
and the decision was made to place the transmitter in line with Emley
but using the existing kit would be far too easy, so instead they put it
on the cellular mast on the slightly elevated land just NE of Bilbrough
Behind what used to be called Buckles Inn on the A64.

In message <upgfg5$24lbg$1@dont-email.me> at Thu, 1 Feb 2024 16:05:23,
Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> writes
>On Thu 01/02/2024 15:56, NY wrote:
>> On 01/02/2024 14:54, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>>> I can't get FreeView 69 on my older telly; I assumed that was, like
>>>the other channel (two if you count the god one) I can't get on it,
>>>because it is on the T2 ("HD") multiplex, "BBC B".
[]
>>> But there also appears to be a mux called Local, which has 7, 8, 69,
>>>and 206-208. (There are also muxes called G-MAN and NI mux, though
>>>the latter is obviously just for NI.)
>>>
>>> Is this a seventh multiplex (not on Heathfield or any of my other
>>>local transmitters), or does it just mean that which mux those
>>>channels are on varies by location? If the latter, where do I find
>>>out? (same for G-MAN)
>> It is an additional MUX carried by some transmitters and with a
>>low-powered, narrow angle beam that only serves a large town/city.

Ah, thanks - so it really is a seventh multiplex, just available in only
some places. Seems odd some national channels - 69 and 206-'8 - are on
it too; I suppose it's just that it has the spare capacity, so they
might as well.

>> York has/had one from a transmitter which is close to York on the
>>south-west side so it appears to be on the same bearing as Emley Moor
>>which serves York, so customers with an Emley-facing aerial will pick
>>up most of they muxes from EM and the Local one from the York transmitter.

Makes sense.
>
>York TV or analogue days was on the water tower at Askham Bryan beside
>the junc of the A1237 and the A64. The structure but is no longer used.
>
>The original proposal was to radiate York TV from Bilsdale - no-one
>darn sarf who makes these decisions seemed to be aware that pretty well
>all of the residents or York use Emley. Suddenly someone shook their
>cage and the decision was made to place the transmitter in line with
>Emley but using the existing kit would be far too easy, so instead they
>put it on the cellular mast on the slightly elevated land just NE of
>Bilbrough Behind what used to be called Buckles Inn on the A64.

The advent of digital multiplexes - both TV and radio - has made truly
local services a lot more difficult; not that it should have, but
administratively it has.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

The best way to achieve immortality is by not dying.

On Thu 01/02/2024 18:22, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> In message <upgfg5$24lbg$1@dont-email.me> at Thu, 1 Feb 2024 16:05:23,
> Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> writes
>> On Thu 01/02/2024 15:56, NY wrote:
>>> On 01/02/2024 14:54, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>>>> I can't get FreeView 69 on my older telly; I assumed that was, like
>>>> the other channel (two if you count the god one) I can't get on it,
>>>> because it is on the T2 ("HD") multiplex, "BBC B".
> []
>>>> But there also appears to be a mux called Local, which has 7, 8, 69,
>>>> and 206-208. (There are also muxes called G-MAN and NI mux, though
>>>> the  latter is obviously just for NI.)
>>>>
>>>> Is this a seventh multiplex (not on Heathfield or any of my other
>>>> local transmitters), or does it just mean that which mux those
>>>> channels are on varies by location? If the latter, where do I find
>>>> out? (same for G-MAN)
>>>  It is an additional MUX carried by some transmitters and with a
>>> low-powered, narrow angle beam that only serves a large town/city.
>
> Ah, thanks - so it really is a seventh multiplex, just available in only
> some places. Seems odd some national channels - 69 and 206-'8 - are on
> it too; I suppose it's just that it has the spare capacity, so they
> might as well.
>
>>>  York has/had one from a transmitter which is close to York on the
>>> south-west side so it appears to be on the same bearing as Emley Moor
>>> which serves York, so customers with an Emley-facing aerial will pick
>>> up  most of they muxes from EM and the Local one from the York
>>> transmitter.
>
> Makes sense.
>>
>> York TV or analogue days was on the water tower at Askham Bryan beside
>> the junc of the A1237 and the A64. The structure but is no longer used.
>>
>> The original proposal was to radiate York TV from Bilsdale - no-one
>> darn sarf who makes these decisions seemed to be aware that pretty
>> well all of the residents or York use Emley. Suddenly someone shook
>> their cage and the decision was made to place the transmitter in line
>> with Emley but using the existing kit would be far too easy, so
>> instead they put it on the cellular mast on the slightly elevated land
>> just NE of Bilbrough Behind what used to be called Buckles Inn on the
>> A64.
>
> The advent of digital multiplexes - both TV and radio - has made truly
> local services a lot more difficult; not that it should have, but
> administratively it has.

We live in Harrogate which is sort of within the transmitted beamwidth
of Leeds TV from Emley. Useful as Emley transmits 174kw on all six muxes
but only 5kw on the LTV mux so if we have picture/signal issues its just
a case of looking at channel 7 (RF channel 39) to see what that is doing.
Mind you Leeds TV is a bit of a waste of time IMO as it has some local
news at certain times but otherwise rebroadcasts Talk TV which is there
24/7 on 237!

On 01/02/2024 19:24, Woody wrote:

> Mind you Leeds TV is a bit of a waste of time IMO as it has some local
> news at certain times but otherwise rebroadcasts Talk TV which is there
> 24/7 on 237!
>
>
We get the same problem with Talk Birmingham on Freeview channel 7.

There seems to be only about four hours of local coverage a day. which
all seems to be presented by refugees from the local media studies courses.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On Thu 01/02/2024 19:37, John Williamson wrote:
> On 01/02/2024 19:24, Woody wrote:
>
>> Mind you Leeds TV is a bit of a waste of time IMO as it has some local
>> news at certain times but otherwise rebroadcasts Talk TV which is there
>> 24/7 on 237!
>>
>>
> We get the same problem with Talk Birmingham on Freeview channel 7.
>
> There seems to be only about four hours of local coverage a day. which
> all seems to be presented by refugees from the local media studies courses.
>
+1!!

On 01/02/2024 19:37, John Williamson wrote:
> On 01/02/2024 19:24, Woody wrote:
>
>> Mind you Leeds TV is a bit of a waste of time IMO as it has some local
>> news at certain times but otherwise rebroadcasts Talk TV which is there
>> 24/7 on 237!
>>
>>
> We get the same problem with Talk Birmingham on Freeview channel 7.
>
> There seems to be only about four hours of local coverage a day. which
> all seems to be presented by refugees from the local media studies courses.

Local TV (excluding rebroadcasting of a national channel) really does
seem to scraping the bottom of the barrel, both from a presenter point
of view and a technical standards point of view.

When I lived in Bracknell, their cable service included a local channel,
probably from Reading. That broadcast county/UA council meetings,
entirely in wide shot and with the microphone several miles away so the
room colouration of the sound made it almost unintelligible. The
councillors had mikes on their desks, but for some reason those were not
fed to the recording shown on TV. Their local news bulletins were
presented by people who had difficulty reading the autocue (probably
made more difficult because had not written the word that they were
speaking); one male presenter looked like a rabbit caught in the
headlights - he was more wooden than Pinocchio and looked as if he was
terrified that the camera concealed a machine gun.

Later on, still in analogue days, there was a station in Oxford which
was a mixture of the dire and the very interesting. Studio programmes -
eg cookery - seemed to have a lot of problem with overexposed,
featureless orange highlights on people's faces. Some of the programmes
were excellent: there was a series called Wild presented by a naturalist
called Sasha Norris who lived in the city and travelled all over the
place presented reports about the environment and ecology, but in a way
that managed to avoid being holier-than-thou. I remember a programme
from the Eden Project in Cornwall, and one from close to home where
draft horses were being used in preference to diesel plant for hauling
felled trees out of forests to a place where the could be sawn up in
manageable lengths to take to the sawmill.

At least most of their output was local, and not lazy time-filling music
videos or rebroadcasting of another station.

With a local transmitter which looks as if it is part of a national
transmitter like Emley Moor, there is no excuse for not making the
channel appeal to residents of the target broadcast region.

On 01/02/2024 18:22, J. P. Gilliver wrote:

> Ah, thanks - so it really is a seventh multiplex, just available in only
> some places. Seems odd some national channels - 69 and 206-'8 - are on
> it too; I suppose it's just that it has the spare capacity, so they
> might as well.
>

The local element has evolved into a trojan horse scheme to establish a
7th quasi national mux. The national services actually make money,
unlike the dire lip service local ones, or in the case of the London
mux, London Live is more or less just a repeats channel (like ITV 3 etc)

NY wrote:

> Some of the programmes were excellent: there was a series called Wild
> presented by a naturalist called Sasha Norris

Zoologist, Broadcaster, Trans-species; half-wolf.

On Fri, 2 Feb 2024 08:51:20 +0000, Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com>
wrote:

>On 01/02/2024 18:22, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>
>> Ah, thanks - so it really is a seventh multiplex, just available in only
>> some places. Seems odd some national channels - 69 and 206-'8 - are on
>> it too; I suppose it's just that it has the spare capacity, so they
>> might as well.
>>
>
>The local element has evolved into a trojan horse scheme to establish a
>7th quasi national mux. The national services actually make money,
>unlike the dire lip service local ones, or in the case of the London
>mux, London Live is more or less just a repeats channel (like ITV 3 etc)

I am told that in the N.West (Winter Hill) only the Merseyside local
serves its original purpose of local news etc. The Preston local
channel is now Thats TV

--
brightside s9

On 02/02/2024 08:51, Mark Carver wrote:
> On 01/02/2024 18:22, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>
>> Ah, thanks - so it really is a seventh multiplex, just available in
>> only some places. Seems odd some national channels - 69 and 206-'8 -
>> are on it too; I suppose it's just that it has the spare capacity, so
>> they might as well.
>>
>
> The local element has evolved into a trojan horse scheme to establish a
> 7th quasi national mux. The national services actually make money,
> unlike the dire lip service local ones, or in the case of the London
> mux, London Live is more or less just a repeats channel (like ITV 3 etc)

Some interesting films though.

--
Max Demian

"Andy Burns" <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote in message
news:l23ov9Fo4i6U3@mid.individual.net...
> NY wrote:
>
>> Some of the programmes were excellent: there was a series called Wild
>> presented by a naturalist called Sasha Norris
>
> Zoologist, Broadcaster, Trans-species; half-wolf.

"Trans-species; half-wolf" - now that raises a lot of intriguing
questions... Hopefully she's not of the "were" variety! I see that one of
her episodes of Wild was about wolves. Maybe if I had
Twitter/X access it would become clearer.

"NY" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote in message
news:upipqc$2k385$1@dont-email.me...
> "Andy Burns" <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote in message
> news:l23ov9Fo4i6U3@mid.individual.net...
>> NY wrote:
>>
>>> Some of the programmes were excellent: there was a series called Wild
>>> presented by a naturalist called Sasha Norris
>>
>> Zoologist, Broadcaster, Trans-species; half-wolf.
>
> "Trans-species; half-wolf" - now that raises a lot of intriguing
> questions... Hopefully she's not of the "were" variety! I see that one of
> her episodes of Wild was about wolves. Maybe if I had
> Twitter/X access it would become clearer.

I pity her children:

https://www.thepeerage.com/p75432.htm

Mila Lily Strawberry May Norris Dugdale
Salvador Jem Oak Norris Dugdale

"Strawberry" and "Oak" are definitely names that you'd keep secret, as
initials only.

NY wrote:

> "Trans-species; half-wolf" - now that raises a lot of intriguing
> questions... Hopefully she's not of the "were" variety! I see that one
> of her episodes of Wild was about wolves. Maybe if I had
> Twitter/X access it would become clearer.

Yes, since Musk bought twitter, it seems to show far less to non-members
than before.

In message <l23ooaFojb7U1@mid.individual.net> at Fri, 2 Feb 2024
08:51:20, Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> writes
>On 01/02/2024 18:22, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>
>> Ah, thanks - so it really is a seventh multiplex, just available in
>>only some places. Seems odd some national channels - 69 and 206-'8 -
>>are on it too; I suppose it's just that it has the spare capacity, so
>>they might as well.
>>
>
>The local element has evolved into a trojan horse scheme to establish a
>7th quasi national mux. The national services actually make money,
>unlike the dire lip service local ones, or in the case of the London
>mux, London Live is more or less just a repeats channel (like ITV 3 etc)
>
What sort of coverage has it - either population or area? Although I'm
rural (mid-Kent), I'd have thought Kent in general would be populated
enough to have local channeling, though from what you say the local
isn't anyway.

I see my Radio Times - which went from regional to "England", about the
beginning of last year I think - gives a listing for London Live.

(I don't mind ITV3 being repeats: of the things it shows that I would
watch, they're either ones I missed, or I've forgotten the plot
[especially Vera!], or occasionally things I don't mind seeing again
anyway. Most of the FreeView channels are that anyway - as it says
[albeit in very small print] at the bottom of the relevant pages in the
RT, "All programmes on the above channels are repeats unless otherwise
stated".)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

I admire him for the constancy of his curiosity, his effortless sense of
authority and his ability to deliver good science without gimmicks.
- Michael Palin on Sir David Attenborough, RT 2016/5/7-13

On 02/02/2024 15:51, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> In message <l23ooaFojb7U1@mid.individual.net> at Fri, 2 Feb 2024
> 08:51:20, Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> writes
>> On 01/02/2024 18:22, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>>
>>> Ah, thanks - so it really is a seventh multiplex, just available in
>>> only  some places. Seems odd some national channels - 69 and 206-'8 -
>>> are on  it too; I suppose it's just that it has the spare capacity,
>>> so they  might as well.
>>>
>>
>> The local element has evolved into a trojan horse scheme to establish
>> a 7th quasi national mux. The national services actually make money,
>> unlike the dire lip service local ones, or in the case of the London
>> mux, London Live is more or less just a repeats channel (like ITV 3 etc)
>>
> What sort of coverage has it - either population or area?

About 70% UK population coverage, frequencies and site choices are
driven by what is technically feasible, not what's necessarily
desirable, so in east and SE England, not much, owing to our near neighbours

Here's a list of sites etc

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0029/98093/MUX-L-BA-Attachment-to-Variation.PDF

In message <l24kbuFojb7U2@mid.individual.net> at Fri, 2 Feb 2024
16:42:35, Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> writes
>On 02/02/2024 15:51, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
[]
>>> On 01/02/2024 18:22, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ah, thanks - so it really is a seventh multiplex, just available in
[]
>> What sort of coverage has it - either population or area?
>
>About 70% UK population coverage, frequencies and site choices are
>driven by what is technically feasible, not what's necessarily
>desirable, so in east and SE England, not much, owing to our near
>neighbours
>
>Here's a list of sites etc
>
>https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0029/98093/MUX-L-BA-Atta
>chment-to-Variation.PDF
>
Thanks. No, doesn't reach me (with my current aerial orientation for
Heathfield, anyway) - the Blue Bell Hill one has zero strength, and the
Tunbridge Wells one negligible so the set finds nothing there.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

If it's nice to look at and it makes you feel good, it's art. - Grayson Perry,
interviewed in Radio Times 12-18 October 2013

In article <l22a8oFgsmlU1@mid.individual.net>, John Williamson
<johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> scribeth thus
>On 01/02/2024 19:24, Woody wrote:
>
>> Mind you Leeds TV is a bit of a waste of time IMO as it has some local
>> news at certain times but otherwise rebroadcasts Talk TV which is there
>> 24/7 on 237!
>>
>>
>We get the same problem with Talk Birmingham on Freeview channel 7.
>
>There seems to be only about four hours of local coverage a day. which
>all seems to be presented by refugees from the local media studies courses.
>

Poor souls, they gotta learn their craft somehow;!..

--
Tony Sayer

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person.

Give him a keyboard, and he will reveal himself.