Well, guess 30 year old F-16's are better than the 60 year old Vietnam
era F-4's they currently fly ,, Still not sure why its the US who has to
pay the bribes, is Sweden itself going to kick in any tribute ?

Biggest loser [after US taxpayers] is probably Putin and his Whores, who
counted on the anti west muslim despot to stick to his guns and demand a
very, very high price for his cooperation.
Caving, after months and months of insolent rhetoric, threats and
demands, just to get some decades old surplus airplanes is nothing short
of a big F U to Putrid.

````````

Cocky Biden tells Turkey's Erdogan he'll win in 2024: Joe, 80, jokes
with strongman they'll be meeting for the next FIVE YEARS after U.S.
agreed to send him F-16s - then ignores questions from the press

Biden met Turkey's Erdogan after breakthrough deal to let Sweden
join NATO
Erdogan wished him 'best of luck' in his election and thanked him
Biden responded: 'I look forward to being with you in the next five
years'

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12287663/Cocky-Biden-tells-Turkeys-Erdogan-hell-win-2024.html
--
Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for
light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.

On Tue, 11 Jul 2023 22:54:43 -0400
JeSSe <zo@so.org> wrote:

> Well, guess 30 year old F-16's are better than the 60 year old
> Vietnam era F-4's they currently fly

Why do you always have to lie ?

Turkey has possessed F-16 fighters since 1987.

They aren't getting 30 year old F-16. The deal is to provide latest models and upgrade older models they already have.

I guess the reason you lie so much is because you are driven by hatred, are compelled to demonise at every opportunity, so, when the truth doesn't allow that, you simply make shit up and lie.

The Happy Hippy wrote:
> On Tue, 11 Jul 2023 22:54:43 -0400
> JeSSe <zo@so.org> wrote:
>
>> Well, guess 30 year old F-16's are better than the 60 year old
>> Vietnam era F-4's they currently fly

F-16 is an over 40 year old aircraft, and they still fly F-4's [an
aircraft which I love BTW]
There is no way around facts Xippy, posture and moan all you want. Turks
caved for a decades old fighter, though granted a still very capable
aircraft.
I know you and Putrid are fuming and are trying to spin a new NATO
member traded for old aircraft in a positive light, but all it really
shows is the limitations of blackmail from a half assed muslim nigger.

He tried to play off like he had a royal flush, all he had was a pair of
2's, was called out and folded, taking what he could get.

--
Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for
light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.

On Wed, 12 Jul 2023 13:59:52 -0400
JeSSe <zo@so.org> wrote:

> He tried to play off like he had a royal flush, all he had was a pair
> of 2's, was called out and folded, taking what he could get.

You don't actually know that. I don't believe either side have gained anything, though NATO got the opportunity to pretend a deal had been concluded.

The idea that Turkey will be ratifying Sweden's membership without delay seems to be wishful thinking to me, not what Erdogan agreed to.

I don't believe Erdogan has folded, he still appears to be tying ratification to getting the jets and upgrades, Sweden agreeing to Turkey's demands on terrorism issues, and the EU engaging in membership discussions.

He's not however getting the jets and upgrades unless Sweden is ratified.

So it remains deadlocked. We will only know when Sweden is ratified or isn't.

It may be that Erdogan has been given something to drop what he was previously demanding which has not been announced. But to suggest Erdogan folded because he's weak and held a weak hand is simply laughable.

He has actually made his hand stronger when it comes to playing off NATO's offer against what Putin has to put on the table for him to renege on it.

And it's not a done deal anyway with Hungary still avoiding ratification.

NATO can spin things however it wants but only time will tell how that spin matches reality.

The Happy Hippy wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Jul 2023 13:59:52 -0400
> JeSSe <zo@so.org> wrote:
>
>> He tried to play off like he had a royal flush, all he had was a pair
>> of 2's, was called out and folded, taking what he could get.
>
> You don't actually know that. I don't believe either side have gained anything, though NATO got the opportunity to pretend a deal had been concluded.
>
> The idea that Turkey will be ratifying Sweden's membership without delay seems to be wishful thinking to me, not what Erdogan agreed to.
>
> I don't believe Erdogan has folded, he still appears to be tying ratification to getting the jets and upgrades, Sweden agreeing to Turkey's demands on terrorism issues, and the EU engaging in membership discussions.
>
> He's not however getting the jets and upgrades unless Sweden is ratified.
>
> So it remains deadlocked. We will only know when Sweden is ratified or isn't.
>
> It may be that Erdogan has been given something to drop what he was previously demanding which has not been announced. But to suggest Erdogan folded because he's weak and held a weak hand is simply laughable.
>
> He has actually made his hand stronger when it comes to playing off NATO's offer against what Putin has to put on the table for him to renege on it.

Ratifying will be a formality, if there is any token opposition and
minor holdups it will only be because they are disappointed that more
ransom was not paid.

> And it's not a done deal anyway with Hungary still avoiding ratification.

Hungary will be bought off much cheaper, they have even less of a hand
to play than the Turks, who are skilled blackmailers.
They don't even have the "I'll flood Europe with 1,000,000's of muslims
!" card that Erdogan plays very often.

> NATO can spin things however it wants but only time will tell how that spin matches reality.

They announced it was a done deal, would not have done so if it wasn't.
How much finagling, back room deals, bribes, payoffs and time frame that
are still ongoing, remains to be seen - But the newest member of NATO is
Sweden, write it in the books.

You did the very same hopeless posturing for Finland, and guess what ,,,,

On Mon, 25 Apr 2022 15:02:05 -0400
JeSSe <zo@so.org> wrote:

> Sweden and Finland 'agree to both apply for NATO membership in May'

That is a lie, fake news, propaganda.

There is no evidence at all that either will apply for membership in
May, or at any other time, other than media reports claiming they will.

They have said they could apply, could apply at the same time, but
haven't confirmed any date or timescale, and both need to have
parliamentary approval to make such applications which they don't yet have.

On Mon, 16 May 2022 22:34:31 +0100
> It's hard to see how Sweden or Finland could join NATO unless they also agree with that designation and start extraditing such terrorists. Turkey are quite right to insist upon that.
> I can't see Turkey relenting.

On Tue, 28 Jun 2022 16:22:39 -0400
JeSSe <zo@so.org> wrote:

> > Sweden and Finland 'agree to both apply for NATO membership in
> > May'
>
> That is a lie, fake news, propaganda.

That was a lie at the time - 25 April 2022, and thus remains a permanent
lie.

In fact the leaders of both countries were saying they hadn't agreed
such a thing at the time propagandist liars like yourself were claiming
they had.

Sweden's parliament didn't even decide upon membership until three weeks
later, Finland a few days after that. It was impossible for such an
agreement to have been made before then.

It's a proven fact that claims they had agreed in April was lie.

On and on the wingnut bullshit goes, where it stops, no one knows

--
Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for
light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.

On Wed, 12 Jul 2023 16:33:58 -0400
JeSSe <zo@so.org> wrote:

> The Happy Hippy wrote:
> > On Wed, 12 Jul 2023 13:59:52 -0400
> > JeSSe <zo@so.org> wrote:
> >
> >> He tried to play off like he had a royal flush, all he had was a
> >> pair of 2's, was called out and folded, taking what he could get.
> >
> > You don't actually know that. I don't believe either side have
> > gained anything, though NATO got the opportunity to pretend a deal
> > had been concluded.
> >
> > The idea that Turkey will be ratifying Sweden's membership without
> > delay seems to be wishful thinking to me, not what Erdogan agreed
> > to.
> >
> > I don't believe Erdogan has folded, he still appears to be tying
> > ratification to getting the jets and upgrades, Sweden agreeing to
> > Turkey's demands on terrorism issues, and the EU engaging in
> > membership discussions.
> >
> > He's not however getting the jets and upgrades unless Sweden is
> > ratified.
> >
> > So it remains deadlocked. We will only know when Sweden is ratified
> > or isn't.
> >
> > It may be that Erdogan has been given something to drop what he was
> > previously demanding which has not been announced. But to suggest
> > Erdogan folded because he's weak and held a weak hand is simply
> > laughable.
> >
> > He has actually made his hand stronger when it comes to playing off
> > NATO's offer against what Putin has to put on the table for him to
> > renege on it.
>
> Ratifying will be a formality, if there is any token opposition and
> minor holdups it will only be because they are disappointed that more
> ransom was not paid.

Exactly; they can still hold out for the ransom.

> > And it's not a done deal anyway with Hungary still avoiding
> > ratification.
>
> Hungary will be bought off much cheaper, they have even less of a
> hand to play than the Turks, who are skilled blackmailers.
> They don't even have the "I'll flood Europe with 1,000,000's of
> muslims !" card that Erdogan plays very often.

You say that but Hungary hasn't ratified. They keep saying "no problem" but it just never happens.

> > NATO can spin things however it wants but only time will tell how
> > that spin matches reality.
>
> They announced it was a done deal, would not have done so if it
> wasn't.

Sure, if you say so.

> How much finagling, back room deals, bribes, payoffs and time
> frame that are still ongoing, remains to be seen

So you are agreeing with me. That's exactly what I said.

> But the newest
> member of NATO is Sweden, write it in the books.

Except Sweden isn't yet.

> You did the very same hopeless posturing for Finland, and guess what

Nope. Everything I said was fact.

> On Mon, 25 Apr 2022 15:02:05 -0400
> JeSSe <zo@so.org> wrote:
>
> > Sweden and Finland 'agree to both apply for NATO membership in
> > May'
>
> That is a lie, fake news, propaganda.
>
> There is no evidence at all that either will apply for membership in
> May, or at any other time, other than media reports claiming they
> will.
>
> They have said they could apply, could apply at the same time, but
> haven't confirmed any date or timescale, and both need to have
> parliamentary approval to make such applications which they don't yet
> have.
>
>
> On Mon, 16 May 2022 22:34:31 +0100
> > It's hard to see how Sweden or Finland could join NATO unless they
> > also agree with that designation and start extraditing such
> > terrorists. Turkey are quite right to insist upon that. I can't see
> > Turkey relenting.
>
>
>
> On Tue, 28 Jun 2022 16:22:39 -0400
> JeSSe <zo@so.org> wrote:
>
> > > Sweden and Finland 'agree to both apply for NATO membership in
> > > May'
> >
> > That is a lie, fake news, propaganda.
>
> That was a lie at the time - 25 April 2022, and thus remains a
> permanent lie.
>
> In fact the leaders of both countries were saying they hadn't agreed
> such a thing at the time propagandist liars like yourself were
> claiming they had.
>
> Sweden's parliament didn't even decide upon membership until three
> weeks later, Finland a few days after that. It was impossible for
> such an agreement to have been made before then.
>
> It's a proven fact that claims they had agreed in April was lie.
>
>
>
> On and on the wingnut bullshit goes, where it stops, no one knows

Except none of that is bullshit. It's all verifiable.

The Happy Hippy wrote:

> Nope. Everything I said was fact.

> I can't see Turkey relenting.

Got news - They relented.

I know you and Pootin hold out hopes of a reversal, ain't gonna happen.
Greedy muslim sold out for decades old fighter jets, face it.
--
Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for
light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.

On Thu, 13 Jul 2023 12:48:29 -0400
JeSSe <zo@so.org> wrote:

> The Happy Hippy wrote:
>
> > Nope. Everything I said was fact.
>
> > I can't see Turkey relenting.
>
> Got news - They relented.

You don't know that for sure. Sweden only becomes a member when Turkey actually ratifies and they haven't so far. Which is why Sweden aren't currently listed as NATO members.

All Erdogan agreed was to put it to his parliament. He can still interfere with that process. Whether he does remains to be seen.

On Thu, 13 Jul 2023 20:54:55 +0100
The Happy Hippy <the.happy.hippy.nntp@ntlworld.invalid> wrote:

> On Thu, 13 Jul 2023 12:48:29 -0400
> JeSSe <zo@so.org> wrote:
>
> > The Happy Hippy wrote:
> >
> > > Nope. Everything I said was fact.
> >
> > > I can't see Turkey relenting.
> >
> > Got news - They relented.
>
> You don't know that for sure. Sweden only becomes a member when
> Turkey actually ratifies and they haven't so far. Which is why Sweden
> aren't currently listed as NATO members.
>
> All Erdogan agreed was to put it to his parliament. He can still
> interfere with that process. Whether he does remains to be seen.

https://asia.nikkei.com/Editor-s-Picks/Interview/Turkey-won-t-ratify-Sweden-s-NATO-entry-overnight-Erdogan-adviser

<quotes>

While acknowledging that Sweden has made efforts to address Ankara's concerns about so-called anti-Turkish groups, Akif Cagatay Kilic, chief foreign policy adviser, signaled that Ankara was hoping Stockholm would do more.

"They have fulfilled certain requirements in the trilateral agreement," he said, pointing to the 10-point Trilateral Memorandum signed by Turkey and NATO prospects Finland and Sweden ahead of last year's NATO summit in Madrid.

"There is sincerity there, but there is some work that has to be done," he added, hinting that it is not a done deal. "That's why we are saying it's up to parliament to work on that because our part, as the executive branch, is to send it to parliament."

Turkey will also be watching for the establishment of a NATO special coordinator for counterterrorism, which NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg promised Erdogan as part of the deal. The coordinator "is something which is very important in our view," Kilic said.

</quotes>

"Hinting that it is not a done deal".

What Erdogan has done is punt opposition to ratification sideways. Left it to parliament to decide if Sweden has done enough to warrant ratification, reject that, or make it conditional on doing what they demand.

What Erdogan has got is his "it's not me, it's parliament, the will of the people" defence. He can claim it would be undemocratic for him to try and influence parliament while doing exactly that.

And he can have parliament being equally or more stubborn than he has been. It's just Phase 2 of delaying ratification until he gets what he wants.

He handed what NATO chooses to believe is a win, but it will not feel like that if next year's summit comes around and Sweden still isn't a member. NATO will be under pressure to get it done before then.

Or maybe Erdogan isn't a conniving, duplicitous, mendacious, deceitful, scheming bastard. Perhaps he did simply fold because he was told to. Doesn't care that the world and his own people will see him as weak and pathetic, hasn't been humiliated and shamed by appeasing western devils in the most pitiful of ways.

Cool story bro.