In message <cepksitb2fd2viit2nre59is50f9o3ekjc@4ax.com> at Mon, 12 Feb
2024 18:39:46, Chris J Dixon <chris@cdixon.me.uk> writes
>Andy Burns wrote:
>
>With digital delays, the answer has to be negative.
>
>Chris

Not for time precision, no (although if you listen to them on FM [or I
presume AM], they're close enough to set most clocks and watches).

But as a cultural meme, I'd be sad to see them go.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

[What's your guilty pleasure?] Why should you feel guilty about pleasure? -
Michel Roux Jr in Radio Times 2-8 February 2013

In uk.tech.broadcast J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
> In message <cepksitb2fd2viit2nre59is50f9o3ekjc@4ax.com> at Mon, 12 Feb
> 2024 18:39:46, Chris J Dixon <chris@cdixon.me.uk> writes
> >Andy Burns wrote:
> >
> >With digital delays, the answer has to be negative.
> >
> >Chris
>
> Not for time precision, no (although if you listen to them on FM [or I
> presume AM], they're close enough to set most clocks and watches).
>
> But as a cultural meme, I'd be sad to see them go.

They just signify 'here is the news' at this point, like the Big Ben bongs
for News at Ten, or the 45 seconds of pompous flummery on the BBC News
Channel.

Theo

In message <-Nn*VDQCz@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk> at Mon, 12 Feb 2024
22:37:51, Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> writes
>In uk.tech.broadcast J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
>> In message <cepksitb2fd2viit2nre59is50f9o3ekjc@4ax.com> at Mon, 12 Feb
>> 2024 18:39:46, Chris J Dixon <chris@cdixon.me.uk> writes
>> >Andy Burns wrote:
>> >
>> >With digital delays, the answer has to be negative.
>> >
>> >Chris
>>
>> Not for time precision, no (although if you listen to them on FM [or I
>> presume AM], they're close enough to set most clocks and watches).
>>
>> But as a cultural meme, I'd be sad to see them go.
>
>They just signify 'here is the news' at this point, like the Big Ben bongs
>for News at Ten, or the 45 seconds of pompous flummery on the BBC News
>Channel.
>
>Theo

That's your opinion, and you're entitled to it. I think they're a bit
more than that - as I said if you use the FM feed, they're close enough
to set your watch by.

I agree about the BBC News countdown - I don't think there's any
pretence that it counts down to the hour, even allowing for the variable
digital processing time. Sometime last year they even stopped it being a
frame counter and changed it to centiseconds (which of course can't be
displayed on a 25i - or even 50p - system). Well, I wouldn't call it
pompous, but it _is_ often amusingly anachronistic: does any
professional still use a luggable camera with a CRT viewfinder, for
example?
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

you can't blame boomers for everything. - Joe Queenan, RT 2023/6/24-30

Yes well they were stopped some time back and I think are generated by the
bbc themselves with a countdown up to them to aid program producers. So I
wonder if there was some way that the delay could be accounted for on the
different media delivery systems. I'd imagine if a sat were involved it
would be the longest delay. However D
aB and internet can be worse sometimes but it seems to vary.
Brian

--

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"J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote in message
news:AKUrkN2xZnylFwu4@255soft.uk...
> In message <cepksitb2fd2viit2nre59is50f9o3ekjc@4ax.com> at Mon, 12 Feb
> 2024 18:39:46, Chris J Dixon <chris@cdixon.me.uk> writes
>>Andy Burns wrote:
>>
>>With digital delays, the answer has to be negative.
>>
>>Chris
>
> Not for time precision, no (although if you listen to them on FM [or I
> presume AM], they're close enough to set most clocks and watches).
>
> But as a cultural meme, I'd be sad to see them go.
> --
> J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
>
> [What's your guilty pleasure?] Why should you feel guilty about
> pleasure? -
> Michel Roux Jr in Radio Times 2-8 February 2013

Are you suggesting that the BBC live in the past? grin.
There was a very funny skit on what might be going on during the run in to
news bulletins many years ago. The idea seemed to be that it gave just
enough time for the staff to stop snogging each other and sort their
makeup out.
Brian

--

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Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote in message
news:Uxfean3eXsylFwf4@255soft.uk...
> In message <-Nn*VDQCz@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk> at Mon, 12 Feb 2024
> 22:37:51, Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> writes
>>In uk.tech.broadcast J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <cepksitb2fd2viit2nre59is50f9o3ekjc@4ax.com> at Mon, 12 Feb
>>> 2024 18:39:46, Chris J Dixon <chris@cdixon.me.uk> writes
>>> >Andy Burns wrote:
>>> >
>>> >With digital delays, the answer has to be negative.
>>> >
>>> >Chris
>>>
>>> Not for time precision, no (although if you listen to them on FM [or I
>>> presume AM], they're close enough to set most clocks and watches).
>>>
>>> But as a cultural meme, I'd be sad to see them go.
>>
>>They just signify 'here is the news' at this point, like the Big Ben bongs
>>for News at Ten, or the 45 seconds of pompous flummery on the BBC News
>>Channel.
>>
>>Theo
>
> That's your opinion, and you're entitled to it. I think they're a bit more
> than that - as I said if you use the FM feed, they're close enough to set
> your watch by.
>
> I agree about the BBC News countdown - I don't think there's any pretence
> that it counts down to the hour, even allowing for the variable digital
> processing time. Sometime last year they even stopped it being a frame
> counter and changed it to centiseconds (which of course can't be displayed
> on a 25i - or even 50p - system). Well, I wouldn't call it pompous, but it
> _is_ often amusingly anachronistic: does any professional still use a
> luggable camera with a CRT viewfinder, for example?
> --
> J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
>
> you can't blame boomers for everything. - Joe Queenan, RT 2023/6/24-30

In message <uqgfh2$27igd$1@dont-email.me> at Tue, 13 Feb 2024 19:22:08,
Brian Gaff <brian1gaff@gmail.com> writes
>Are you suggesting that the BBC live in the past? grin.

As do many of their audience, so both are happy with each other! Grin.

> There was a very funny skit on what might be going on during the run in to
>news bulletins many years ago. The idea seemed to be that it gave just
>enough time for the staff to stop snogging each other and sort their
>makeup out.
> Brian
>
I think that was either Whoops Apocalypse or Drop the Dead Donkey, or
maybe both.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

.... the greatest musical festival in the world that doesn't involve mud.
- Eddie Mair, RT 2014/8/16-22

I was just thinking about time signals and clocks generally. I guess you
could have some kind of internal radio pips. Is the clock time you see on
tvs, computers and dab displays accurate and not tied to the transmission
delays? If it is it would seem to be pretty easy to generate a pip sound
alike internally and fade the sound down while they appear, no matter what
is actually broadcast and how much delay there was.
Brian

--

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Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Brian Gaff" <brian1gaff@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:uqgf8n$27gpm$1@dont-email.me...
> Yes well they were stopped some time back and I think are generated by the
> bbc themselves with a countdown up to them to aid program producers. So I
> wonder if there was some way that the delay could be accounted for on the
> different media delivery systems. I'd imagine if a sat were involved it
> would be the longest delay. However D
> aB and internet can be worse sometimes but it seems to vary.
> Brian
>
> --
>
> --:
> This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
> The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
> briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
> Blind user, so no pictures please
> Note this Signature is meaningless.!
> "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote in message
> news:AKUrkN2xZnylFwu4@255soft.uk...
>> In message <cepksitb2fd2viit2nre59is50f9o3ekjc@4ax.com> at Mon, 12 Feb
>> 2024 18:39:46, Chris J Dixon <chris@cdixon.me.uk> writes
>>>Andy Burns wrote:
>>>
>>>With digital delays, the answer has to be negative.
>>>
>>>Chris
>>
>> Not for time precision, no (although if you listen to them on FM [or I
>> presume AM], they're close enough to set most clocks and watches).
>>
>> But as a cultural meme, I'd be sad to see them go.
>> --
>> J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
>>
>> [What's your guilty pleasure?] Why should you feel guilty about
>> pleasure? -
>> Michel Roux Jr in Radio Times 2-8 February 2013
>
>

Brian Gaff wrote:

> I was just thinking about time signals and clocks generally. I guess you
> could have some kind of internal radio pips.

I think the News24 approach, i.e. having some pip-like noises in the
jingle that plays up to the start of the program roughly on the hour,
works well enough ...

In message <l46jjaFitp6U1@mid.individual.net> at Tue, 27 Feb 2024
17:14:19, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> writes
>Brian Gaff wrote:
>
>> I was just thinking about time signals and clocks generally. I guess you
>> could have some kind of internal radio pips.
>
>I think the News24 approach, i.e. having some pip-like noises in the
>jingle that plays up to the start of the program roughly on the hour,
>works well enough ...
>
>
I'm pretty sure the news24 countdown - even allowing for the varying
transmission delays - is only a jingle, not actually started so that it
reaches zero on the hour anywhere.
>
The pips on analogue radio FM are probably the most accurate.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

you can't blame boomers for everything. - Joe Queenan, RT 2023/6/24-30

On 28/02/2024 01:41, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> The pips on analogue radio FM are probably the most accurate.

Certainly the most accurate easily accessible way of setting the time.

J. P. Gilliver wrote:

> Andy Burns writes:
>
>> I think the News24 approach, i.e. having some pip-like noises in the
>> jingle that plays up to the start of the program roughly on the hour,
>> works well enough ...
>>
> I'm pretty sure the news24 countdown - even allowing for the varying
> transmission delays - is only a jingle, not actually started so that it
> reaches zero on the hour anywhere.

I'm not saying anything part of the News24 jingle is synchronised, it
just serves as a sound you can listen-out for when it's on in the
background, becauseit has some elements which are reminiscent of pips ...

On 28/02/2024 07:40, JMB99 wrote:
> On 28/02/2024 01:41, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>> The pips on analogue radio FM are probably the most accurate.
>
>
>
> Certainly the most accurate easily accessible way of setting the time.
>
>
If a smartphone with a GPS receiver built in is available, the time
shown on that is within the error caused by the speed of light from
orbit. (If three or more satellites are within line of sight, that error
can be eliminated)

My phones, even the first digital phone I had, display network time,
which in turn is derived from GPS or NPL time.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

In message <uqgf8n$27gpm$1@dont-email.me> at Tue, 13 Feb 2024 19:17:42,
Brian Gaff <brian1gaff@gmail.com> writes
>Yes well they were stopped some time back and I think are generated by the

They were and have not stopped. I think what you are thinking of is that
they no longer - from sometime in the 1990s I think, I remember
listening to the last ones that did, with slight sadness - come from the
Greenwich observatory at Herstmonceux; they, or at least the time
reference, come from the CET in Europe (for practical purposes Germany).

>bbc themselves with a countdown up to them to aid program producers. So I

The actual pips sound is BBC-generated and had been for a long time (the
signal from Herstmonceux was a tone with interruptions rather than
silence with tones, so that it could easily be told whether the line had
gone down). Any countdown to aid producers wouldn't have to have much
time precision so could be from any good clock.

>wonder if there was some way that the delay could be accounted for on the
>different media delivery systems. I'd imagine if a sat were involved it
>would be the longest delay. However D
>aB and internet can be worse sometimes but it seems to vary.
> Brian
>
Yes, if you want something accurate to even a second or so, don't use
DAB or FreeView, use FM. Or, as many have said, a smartphone _as long as
it has GPS_ (which _relies_ on a very precise time reference to work).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Only dirty people need wash

In message <l4883kFr2bgU1@mid.individual.net> at Wed, 28 Feb 2024
08:10:26, John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> writes
>On 28/02/2024 07:40, JMB99 wrote:
>> On 28/02/2024 01:41, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>>> The pips on analogue radio FM are probably the most accurate.
>>
>>
>>
>> Certainly the most accurate easily accessible way of setting the time.
>>
>>
>If a smartphone with a GPS receiver built in is available, the time
>shown on that is within the error caused by the speed of light from
>orbit. (If three or more satellites are within line of sight, that
>error can be eliminated)
>
>My phones, even the first digital phone I had, display network time,
>which in turn is derived from GPS or NPL time.
>
But a 'phone with a clock isn't necessarily showing network time all the
time. I think if one has GPS and that's on, it probably does, but I have
a dumbphone - bough new in 2022 - that, although it displays a clock
when you wake it up, is _not_ even showing network time (it loses a bit;
currently showing 10:54, my PC is showing 10:56, and FreeView BBC1 is
showing 10:57).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Anyone can do any amount of work provided it isn't the work he is supposed to
be doing at the moment. -Robert Benchley, humorist, drama critic, and actor
(1889-1945)

In message <ZPE$oDsH+w3lFwV0@255soft.uk> at Wed, 28 Feb 2024 10:48:39,
J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> writes
>In message <uqgf8n$27gpm$1@dont-email.me> at Tue, 13 Feb 2024 19:17:42,
>Brian Gaff <brian1gaff@gmail.com> writes
[]
Sorry, I replied to that before realising it was an earlier post that
had for some reason reappeared in my feed.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Anyone can do any amount of work provided it isn't the work he is supposed to
be doing at the moment. -Robert Benchley, humorist, drama critic, and actor
(1889-1945)

On 13/02/2024 19:17, Brian Gaff wrote:
> Yes well they were stopped some time back and I think are generated by the
> bbc themselves with a countdown up to them to aid program producers. So I
> wonder if there was some way that the delay could be accounted for on the
> different media delivery systems. I'd imagine if a sat were involved it
> would be the longest delay. However D
> aB and internet can be worse sometimes but it seems to vary.
> Brian

The programme which prompted this thread was, I thought, not really very good, and almost totally lacking in technical detail. Like nearly all BBC programmes it was, I guess, produced by graduates in "media studies" or something like that.

About the only detail that was new to me was the claim than at midnight on a date when a leap second was introduced there would be 7 pips. But I don't know of any BBC programme that uses pips at midnight - it always seems to be the chimes of Big Ben.

There was nothing about this in the programme, but I'm vaguely remember hearing many years ago that the BBC used to adjust the timing of the pips so that a typical listener in the home counties, say 50 km from a London area transmitter like Wrotham, would get the most accurate signal. Anyone living nearer the transmitter than that would get a time signal a fraction of a millisecond early, those in more distant parts of the UK would necessarily get it a few milliseconds late, but there really wasn't much they could do about that at reasonable cost. Does anyone else remember that or is my memory playing tricks?

--
Clive Page

On 28/02/2024 12:17, Clive Page wrote:
> On 13/02/2024 19:17, Brian Gaff wrote:
>> Yes well they were stopped some time back and I think are generated by
>> the
>> bbc themselves with a countdown up to them to aid program producers. So I
>> wonder if there was some way that the delay could be accounted for on the
>> different media delivery systems. I'd imagine if a sat were involved it
>> would be the longest delay. However D
>> aB and internet can be worse sometimes but it seems to vary.
>>   Brian
>
> The programme which prompted this thread was, I thought, not really very
> good, and almost totally lacking in technical detail.   Like nearly all
> BBC programmes it was, I guess, produced by graduates in "media studies"
> or something like that.
>
> About the only detail that was new to me was the claim than at midnight
> on a date when a leap second was introduced there would be 7 pips.   But
> I don't know of any BBC programme that uses pips at midnight - it always
> seems to be the chimes of Big Ben.
>
> There was nothing about this in the programme, but I'm vaguely remember
> hearing many years ago that the BBC used to adjust the timing of the
> pips so that a typical listener in the home counties, say 50 km from a
> London area transmitter like Wrotham, would get the most accurate
> signal.  Anyone living nearer the transmitter than that would get a time
> signal a fraction of a millisecond early, those in more distant parts of
> the UK would necessarily get it a few milliseconds late, but there
> really wasn't much they could do about that at reasonable cost.   Does
> anyone else remember that or is my memory playing tricks?
>
>
A far more significant factor, is how far away you are from the radio's
loudspeaker !

On 28/02/2024 12:17, Clive Page wrote:
> There was nothing about this in the programme, but I'm vaguely remember
> hearing many years ago that the BBC used to adjust the timing of the
> pips so that a typical listener in the home counties, say 50 km from a
> London area transmitter like Wrotham, would get the most accurate
> signal.  Anyone living nearer the transmitter than that would get a time
> signal a fraction of a millisecond early, those in more distant parts of
> the UK would necessarily get it a few milliseconds late, but there
> really wasn't much they could do about that at reasonable cost.   Does
> anyone else remember that or is my memory playing tricks?

How many set their watch to an accuracy of 1 millisecond?

I suspect that if you stopped some people in the street, their watches
would be many minutes out.

In message <urngl8$3u3c5$1@dont-email.me> at Wed, 28 Feb 2024 14:40:40,
JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> writes
>On 28/02/2024 12:17, Clive Page wrote:
>> There was nothing about this in the programme, but I'm vaguely
>>remember hearing many years ago that the BBC used to adjust the
>>timing of the pips so that a typical listener in the home counties,
>>say 50 km from a London area transmitter like Wrotham, would get the
>>most accurate signal.  Anyone living nearer the transmitter than that
>>would get a time signal a fraction of a millisecond early, those in
>>more distant parts of the UK would necessarily get it a few
>>milliseconds late, but there really wasn't much they could do about
>>that at reasonable cost.   Does anyone else remember that or is my
>>memory playing tricks?
>
>
>
>How many set their watch to an accuracy of 1 millisecond?
>
>I suspect that if you stopped some people in the street, their watches
>would be many minutes out.
>
>
I'd defy anyone to be _able_ to set it to closer than 100, more like 500
(-:

As another has said, distance from speaker in the room probably gives
more variation!
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"He hasn't one redeeming vice." - Oscar Wilde

J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
> In message <uqgf8n$27gpm$1@dont-email.me> at Tue, 13 Feb 2024 19:17:42,
> Brian Gaff <brian1gaff@gmail.com> writes
>> Yes well they were stopped some time back and I think are generated by the
>
> They were and have not stopped. I think what you are thinking of is that
> they no longer - from sometime in the 1990s I think, I remember
> listening to the last ones that did, with slight sadness - come from the
> Greenwich observatory at Herstmonceux; they, or at least the time
> reference, come from the CET in Europe (for practical purposes Germany).
>
>> bbc themselves with a countdown up to them to aid program producers. So I
>
> The actual pips sound is BBC-generated and had been for a long time (the
> signal from Herstmonceux was a tone with interruptions rather than
> silence with tones, so that it could easily be told whether the line had
> gone down). Any countdown to aid producers wouldn't have to have much
> time precision so could be from any good clock.
>
>> wonder if there was some way that the delay could be accounted for on the
>> different media delivery systems. I'd imagine if a sat were involved it
>> would be the longest delay. However D
>> aB and internet can be worse sometimes but it seems to vary.
>> Brian
>>
> Yes, if you want something accurate to even a second or so, don't use
> DAB or FreeView, use FM. Or, as many have said, a smartphone _as long as
> it has GPS_ (which _relies_ on a very precise time reference to work).

The pips have been derived from GPS for quite a while. When GPS was in its
early days I visited the pips generation installation. It had three GPS
receivers (for redundancy) and an MSF receiver. The latter was there only
as a last resort in case of GPS system failure. This was in the days when
MSF came from Rugby.

On 28/02/2024 08:10, John Williamson wrote:
> On 28/02/2024 07:40, JMB99 wrote:
>> On 28/02/2024 01:41, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>>> The pips on analogue radio FM are probably the most accurate.

>> Certainly the most accurate easily accessible way of setting the time.
>>
>>
> If a smartphone with a GPS receiver built in is available, the time
> shown on that is within the error caused by the speed of light from
> orbit. (If three or more satellites are within line of sight, that error
> can be eliminated)
>
> My phones, even the first digital phone I had, display network time,
> which in turn is derived from GPS or NPL time.

My smartphone shows the time and it looks accurate, but how do I know
this is from the GPS satellites rather than synchronised via the
internet or cellphone system?

--
Max Demian

On 28/02/2024 20:11, Max Demian wrote:
> My smartphone shows the time and it looks accurate, but how do I know
> this is from the GPS satellites rather than synchronised via the
> internet or cellphone system?
>
My Samsung A12 only gives me the option to use network time. My phone
service provider are silent on where they take their reference from.

My ancient Lenovo tablet gives me a choice of GPS, Network or set it
manually.

Both devices run Android.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On 28/02/2024 16:13, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> I'd defy anyone to be _able_ to set it to closer than 100, more like 500
> (-:
>
> As another has said, distance from speaker in the room probably gives
> more variation!

And most mobile only display hours and minutes.

Sure there are Apps to display seconds but most do not have them in
their phone.

One of my PC has a utility to lock to a German standard because I use
the PC for tracking aircraft. I don't really need it but would if I set
up for Multilateration which uses the time difference between different
receiving sites to calculate the position of the aircraft.

In article <l48p8jFtj3iU1@mid.individual.net>, Mark Carver
<mark@invalid.com> scribeth thus
>On 28/02/2024 12:17, Clive Page wrote:
>> On 13/02/2024 19:17, Brian Gaff wrote:
>>> Yes well they were stopped some time back and I think are generated by
>>> the
>>> bbc themselves with a countdown up to them to aid program producers. So I
>>> wonder if there was some way that the delay could be accounted for on the
>>> different media delivery systems. I'd imagine if a sat were involved it
>>> would be the longest delay. However D
>>> aB and internet can be worse sometimes but it seems to vary.
>>>   Brian
>>
>> The programme which prompted this thread was, I thought, not really very
>> good, and almost totally lacking in technical detail.   Like nearly all
>> BBC programmes it was, I guess, produced by graduates in "media studies"
>> or something like that.
>>
>> About the only detail that was new to me was the claim than at midnight
>> on a date when a leap second was introduced there would be 7 pips.   But
>> I don't know of any BBC programme that uses pips at midnight - it always
>> seems to be the chimes of Big Ben.
>>
>> There was nothing about this in the programme, but I'm vaguely remember
>> hearing many years ago that the BBC used to adjust the timing of the
>> pips so that a typical listener in the home counties, say 50 km from a
>> London area transmitter like Wrotham, would get the most accurate
>> signal.  Anyone living nearer the transmitter than that would get a time
>> signal a fraction of a millisecond early, those in more distant parts of
>> the UK would necessarily get it a few milliseconds late, but there
>> really wasn't much they could do about that at reasonable cost.   Does
>> anyone else remember that or is my memory playing tricks?
>>
>>
>A far more significant factor, is how far away you are from the radio's
>loudspeaker !

A far more important factor is how many females there are there who have
clocks from five to ten minutes fast, or slow even, known that!..

If you want it "that" accurate Rubidium standards are on fleabay from
time to time;!..

--
Tony Sayer

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person.

Give him a keyboard, and he will reveal himself.

Max Demian wrote:

> My smartphone shows the time and it looks accurate, but how do I know
> this is from the GPS satellites rather than synchronised via the
> internet or cellphone system?

If a phone has GPS it *could* get time from satellites, but that might
take a lot of time and energy, far more likely the phone will use the
time information sent by the network* instead.

[*] Sending the date/time/timezone is optional for the network, and it's
allowed to have an accuracy in the order of minutes, but I generally
find it's accurate when compared to GPS/MSF master clocks.