https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-russia-war-latest-drone-romania-defence-
minister-12541713
(this page will expire old material as it gets updated)

Musk admits thwarting major Ukrainian attack

Back now to perhaps the biggest story surrounding the conflict in Ukraine
this morning, and the story we reported a little earlier that SpaceX owner
Elon Musk instructed his engineers to turn off his company's Starlink
satellite to thwart a stealth Ukrainian attack on the Russian naval fleet.

The billionaire, for his part, responded to the claims overnight.

Replying to a post on Twitter that summarises the story - headed "ELON
PREVENTS NUCLEAR WAR?" - Musk said: "The Starlink regions in question were
not activated. SpaceX did not deactivate anything."

However, he went on to claim that although he did not order engineers to
turn off the satellite system, he did refuse Ukrainian pleas to turn it on.

"There was an emergency request from government authorities to activate
Starlink all the way to Sevastopol," he said.

"The obvious intent being to sink most of the Russian fleet at anchor. If
I had agreed to their request, then SpaceX would be explicitly complicit
in a major act of war and conflict escalation."

This tacit admission that he did effectively prevent Kyiv dealing a
significant blow against a country it was invaded by more than 18 months
ago has predictably prompted a widespread and angry response.

Many claim it offers further evidence of his apparent willingness to
hinder Ukraine's efforts to defeat Russia - which we'll cover in more
detail in a separate post shortly.

=========================

Kyiv rages at Musk - blaming him for children being murdered and
'committing evil'

As mentioned previously, the news that Elon Musk decided to obstruct a
major Ukrainian attack on Russia's naval fleet has triggered a largely
furious response.

Perhaps the most strident criticism of the Tesla co-founder overnight has
come from Kyiv itself, with a senior adviser to Ukrainian president
Volodymyr Zelenskyy issuing a strongly worded statement - effectively
blaming him for the killing of children.

"Sometimes a mistake is much more than just a mistake," Mykhailo Podolyak
said on Twitter.

"By not allowing Ukrainian drones to destroy part of the Russian military
(!) fleet via Starlink interference, @elonmusk allowed this fleet to fire
Kalibr missiles at Ukrainian cities.

"As a result, civilians, children are being killed. This is the price of a
cocktail of ignorance and big ego.

"However, the question still remains: why do some people so desperately
want to defend war criminals and their desire to commit murder? And do
they now realise that they are committing evil and encouraging evil?"

As has been noted by some commentator, this represents a marked departure
in Kyiv's approach to Musk - who they had previously been seemingly keen
not to alienate.

The latest developments certainly do little to dispel anger towards Musk
in the wake of a study last week from the European Commission that found
Twitter under his ownership - particularly through the "dismantling of its
safety standards" - had played a significant role in disseminating Russian
propaganda about the Ukraine war.

=========================

He's not the first to be accused of being in with Putin.

Hmmm.... "In with Putin"... I should get shirts printed...

On Fri, 08 Sep 2023 08:54:35 GMT
TWP <ngspammersad@yahoo.com> wrote:

> https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-russia-war-latest-drone-romania-defence-
> minister-12541713
: > Replying to a post on Twitter that summarises the story - headed
> "ELON PREVENTS NUCLEAR WAR?" - Musk said: "The Starlink regions in
> question were not activated. SpaceX did not deactivate anything."
: > "There was an emergency request from government authorities to
> activate Starlink all the way to Sevastopol," he said.
>
> "The obvious intent being to sink most of the Russian fleet at
> anchor. If I had agreed to their request, then SpaceX would be
> explicitly complicit in a major act of war and conflict escalation."
: > Many claim it offers further evidence of his apparent willingness to
> hinder Ukraine's efforts to defeat Russia

I am afraid I didn't see your post when I posted on the same things later.

That was reporting claims Musk had turned it off rather than refused to turn it on, had left attack drones stranded and ineffective.

Either way I think Musk did the right thing for once. If Kiev wants to bitch, others want to attack him for what he did, I would support him pulling Starlink out of Ukraine. Let the ungrateful ejits get on with it without his help.

I am not sure attacking the Russian fleet in Sevastopol would have made SpaceX complicit in an act of war but Russia would inevitably see it that way and I am willing to accept Musk seeing that as hugely problematic.

Offering services in support or defence of a country is rather different than helping it undertake offensive operations, facilitating those.

If Kiev needs help with that they should talk to NATO, not Musk.

> He's not the first to be accused of being in with Putin.

As you say, not the first time someone's been accused of being pro-Putin because they don't agree with how the fascists in Kiev see things, or have been judged to have let Zelensky and the fascists down.

Kiev can rail at Musk all they want. I would applaud Musk telling them to simply fuck off. They really are the most ungrateful whiny entitled bitches.

And anyone else who accuses him of being pro-Putin, pro-Russian.

The funny thing is this "pro-Putin propaganda" which floods Twitter isn't coming from Russia, it's coming from Republicans and America's right-wing, Trump, DeSantis, Steve Bannon, Tucker Carlson, Nick Fuentes, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Matt Gaetz, and other MAGA supporters and fans.

I am not entirely convinced Musk did do the right thing all by himself. I suspect he may have asked Washington if he should allow it and they said "no" as they inevitably would.

They would have stopped Nord Stream 2 being destroyed, stopped Ukrainians shelling the Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant, destroying the Kakhovka dam, attacking the Crimea bridge, firing missiles and flying drones into Russia, all the false flags intended to drag NATO into World War III, if they could, because it all risks escalation NATO doesn't want to see.

At the heart of this conflict is fundamentalist tribalism; you are either supporting Biden's War on Russia, supporting Zelensky and the fascists in Ukraine, and are a patriot, or you are the enemy, pro-Putin, pro-Russian, anti-Ukraine.

Musk is just the latest victim of the fascist mob.

And because he encourages and supports such disgusting people through Twitter, I'll just say Karma's a bitch and go back to calling him Pedo Guy.

> Hmmm.... "In with Putin"... I should get shirts printed...

You can borrow mine.

But would you dare wear it or would you be in fear of your life ?

You know the answer. This is how bad things have become in Brexit Britain.

On Fri, 8 Sep 2023 16:55:32 +0100
The Happy Hippy <the.happy.hippy.nntp@ntlworld.invalid> wrote:

> Musk is just the latest victim of the fascist mob.

The Pedo Guy was utterly naive, and was simply indulging in self-serving self-promotion, when he offered Starlink to Ukraine for free.

He's an idiot if he didn't expect Starlink to be used for nefarious purposes.

A fool for allowing it to be used for such things in any shape or form.

That he drew the line in attacking the Russian fleet doesn't excuse the fact he allowed Starlink to be used to kill Ukrainians, men, women, and children, as well as Russians.

He sought to gain the applause and praise of the War on Russia mob and achieved that, but soon found out he'd sided with evil when he was attacked for trying to pull out over costs, had to ultimately suck it up. And now he's being attacked again because he sided with evil but isn't deemed evil enough for their liking.

As I said; Karama's a bitch. And there's perhaps no one more deserving of reaping her rewards than the Pedo Guy. Play with fire and you'll inevitably get burned by fire.

On Fri, 08 Sep 2023 16:55:32 +0100, The Happy Hippy wrote:

> On Fri, 08 Sep 2023 08:54:35 GMT TWP <ngspammersad@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-russia-war-latest-drone-romania-
defence-
>> minister-12541713
> :
>> Replying to a post on Twitter that summarises the story - headed "ELON
>> PREVENTS NUCLEAR WAR?" - Musk said: "The Starlink regions in question
>> were not activated. SpaceX did not deactivate anything."
> :
>> "There was an emergency request from government authorities to activate
>> Starlink all the way to Sevastopol," he said.
>>
>> "The obvious intent being to sink most of the Russian fleet at anchor.
>> If I had agreed to their request, then SpaceX would be explicitly
>> complicit in a major act of war and conflict escalation."
> :
>> Many claim it offers further evidence of his apparent willingness to
>> hinder Ukraine's efforts to defeat Russia
>
> I am afraid I didn't see your post when I posted on the same things
> later.
>

Don't worry about it.

> That was reporting claims Musk had turned it off rather than refused to
> turn it on, had left attack drones stranded and ineffective.
>
> Either way I think Musk did the right thing for once. If Kiev wants to
> bitch, others want to attack him for what he did, I would support him
> pulling Starlink out of Ukraine. Let the ungrateful ejits get on with it
> without his help.
>
> I am not sure attacking the Russian fleet in Sevastopol would have made
> SpaceX complicit in an act of war but Russia would inevitably see it
> that way and I am willing to accept Musk seeing that as hugely
> problematic.
>
> Offering services in support or defence of a country is rather different
> than helping it undertake offensive operations, facilitating those.
>
> If Kiev needs help with that they should talk to NATO, not Musk.
>

That's what I think. It's not for Must to force the US's hand. I wonder
if he was really in that position anyway. Maybe Musk already knew what to
he had to do. If a united front is to be maintained better the refusal
came from Musk than from the US government.

>
>> He's not the first to be accused of being in with Putin.
>
> As you say, not the first time someone's been accused of being pro-Putin
> because they don't agree with how the fascists in Kiev see things, or
> have been judged to have let Zelensky and the fascists down.
>
> Kiev can rail at Musk all they want. I would applaud Musk telling them
> to simply fuck off. They really are the most ungrateful whiny entitled
> bitches.
>
> And anyone else who accuses him of being pro-Putin, pro-Russian.
>
> The funny thing is this "pro-Putin propaganda" which floods Twitter
> isn't coming from Russia, it's coming from Republicans and America's
> right-wing, Trump, DeSantis, Steve Bannon, Tucker Carlson, Nick Fuentes,
> Marjorie Taylor Greene, Matt Gaetz, and other MAGA supporters and fans.
>
> I am not entirely convinced Musk did do the right thing all by himself.
> I suspect he may have asked Washington if he should allow it and they
> said "no" as they inevitably would.
>

I just wrote somthing like that myself! :-)

> They would have stopped Nord Stream 2 being destroyed, stopped
> Ukrainians shelling the Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant, destroying the
> Kakhovka dam, attacking the Crimea bridge, firing missiles and flying
> drones into Russia, all the false flags intended to drag NATO into World
> War III, if they could, because it all risks escalation NATO doesn't
> want to see.
>
> At the heart of this conflict is fundamentalist tribalism; you are
> either supporting Biden's War on Russia, supporting Zelensky and the
> fascists in Ukraine, and are a patriot, or you are the enemy, pro-Putin,
> pro-Russian, anti-Ukraine.
>
> Musk is just the latest victim of the fascist mob.
>
> And because he encourages and supports such disgusting people through
> Twitter, I'll just say Karma's a bitch and go back to calling him Pedo
> Guy.
>
>
>> Hmmm.... "In with Putin"... I should get shirts printed...
>
> You can borrow mine.
>
> But would you dare wear it or would you be in fear of your life ?
>
> You know the answer. This is how bad things have become in Brexit
> Britain.

Agh! :-)

On Fri, 08 Sep 2023 19:08:42 GMT
TWP <ngspammersad@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > If Kiev needs help with that they should talk to NATO, not Musk.
> >
>
> That's what I think. It's not for Must to force the US's hand.

The fascists in Kiev believe everyone must do whatever they want them to do.

It's the standard play of with us or against us, demonisation and attack if you dissent. Whatever anyone gives them it's never enough, they will always demand more.

Ben Wallace got attacked for simply saying we weren't Amazon, couldn't simply hand over weapons on demand, and wouldn't destroy Britain in the process. The fascists said we should and must.

Like all fascists they have no shame, no sense of subtlety or diplomacy, no gratitude. They are supremacists who simply believe they have some god-given entitlement to have whatever they want with everyone obliged to give it to them.

But we designated them the Good Guys so we have to suck it up, agree with them.

If we didn't, we might have to concede Putin does indeed have a point.

I am surprised there hasn't been more of a backlash to Musk being accused of "evil". I guess most are too afraid of the fascists and their mob turning on them as well.

No one's going to say "but she's not a witch" when it means a visit to the pyre as well. It's how fascists roll; with us or against us.

TWP wrote:
> https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-russia-war-latest-drone-romania-defence-
> minister-12541713
> (this page will expire old material as it gets updated)
>
>
> Musk admits thwarting major Ukrainian attack
>
> Back now to perhaps the biggest story surrounding the conflict in Ukraine
> this morning, and the story we reported a little earlier that SpaceX owner
> Elon Musk instructed his engineers to turn off his company's Starlink
> satellite to thwart a stealth Ukrainian attack on the Russian naval fleet.
>
> The billionaire, for his part, responded to the claims overnight.
>
> Replying to a post on Twitter that summarises the story - headed "ELON
> PREVENTS NUCLEAR WAR?" - Musk said: "The Starlink regions in question were
> not activated. SpaceX did not deactivate anything."
>
> However, he went on to claim that although he did not order engineers to
> turn off the satellite system, he did refuse Ukrainian pleas to turn it on.
>
> "There was an emergency request from government authorities to activate
> Starlink all the way to Sevastopol," he said.
>
> "The obvious intent being to sink most of the Russian fleet at anchor. If
> I had agreed to their request, then SpaceX would be explicitly complicit
> in a major act of war and conflict escalation."
>
> This tacit admission that he did effectively prevent Kyiv dealing a
> significant blow against a country it was invaded by more than 18 months
> ago has predictably prompted a widespread and angry response.
>
> Many claim it offers further evidence of his apparent willingness to
> hinder Ukraine's efforts to defeat Russia - which we'll cover in more
> detail in a separate post shortly.
>
>
> =========================
>
>
> Kyiv rages at Musk - blaming him for children being murdered and
> 'committing evil'
>
> As mentioned previously, the news that Elon Musk decided to obstruct a
> major Ukrainian attack on Russia's naval fleet has triggered a largely
> furious response.
>
> Perhaps the most strident criticism of the Tesla co-founder overnight has
> come from Kyiv itself, with a senior adviser to Ukrainian president
> Volodymyr Zelenskyy issuing a strongly worded statement - effectively
> blaming him for the killing of children.
>
> "Sometimes a mistake is much more than just a mistake," Mykhailo Podolyak
> said on Twitter.
>
> "By not allowing Ukrainian drones to destroy part of the Russian military
> (!) fleet via Starlink interference, @elonmusk allowed this fleet to fire
> Kalibr missiles at Ukrainian cities.
>
> "As a result, civilians, children are being killed. This is the price of a
> cocktail of ignorance and big ego.
>
> "However, the question still remains: why do some people so desperately
> want to defend war criminals and their desire to commit murder? And do
> they now realise that they are committing evil and encouraging evil?"
>
> As has been noted by some commentator, this represents a marked departure
> in Kyiv's approach to Musk - who they had previously been seemingly keen
> not to alienate.
>
> The latest developments certainly do little to dispel anger towards Musk
> in the wake of a study last week from the European Commission that found
> Twitter under his ownership - particularly through the "dismantling of its
> safety standards" - had played a significant role in disseminating Russian
> propaganda about the Ukraine war.
>
> =========================
>
> He's not the first to be accused of being in with Putin.
>
> Hmmm.... "In with Putin"... I should get shirts printed...
>
>
>
Musk has obviously got a target on his back for taking away the main
leftist propaganda platform, spilling their dirty little secrets and
hiring too many Americans - Stands to reason that the corrupt and
beholden Ukrainians would fall straight in line with the corrupt and
compromised Bolsheviks.

I wonder what they'd think if he pulled the plug completely ?

--
Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for
light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.

On Fri, 08 Sep 2023 17:24:10 +0100, The Happy Hippy wrote:

> On Fri, 8 Sep 2023 16:55:32 +0100 The Happy Hippy
> <the.happy.hippy.nntp@ntlworld.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Musk is just the latest victim of the fascist mob.
>
> The Pedo Guy was utterly naive, and was simply indulging in self-serving
> self-promotion, when he offered Starlink to Ukraine for free.
>
> He's an idiot if he didn't expect Starlink to be used for nefarious
> purposes.
>
> A fool for allowing it to be used for such things in any shape or form.
>
> That he drew the line in attacking the Russian fleet doesn't excuse the
> fact he allowed Starlink to be used to kill Ukrainians, men, women, and
> children, as well as Russians.
>
> He sought to gain the applause and praise of the War on Russia mob and
> achieved that, but soon found out he'd sided with evil when he was
> attacked for trying to pull out over costs, had to ultimately suck it
> up. And now he's being attacked again because he sided with evil but
> isn't deemed evil enough for their liking.
>
> As I said; Karama's a bitch. And there's perhaps no one more deserving
> of reaping her rewards than the Pedo Guy. Play with fire and you'll
> inevitably get burned by fire.

How did Musk know what the plan was? Someone must have told him. Why
would Ukraine set up a conflict of interest by telling him it was an
attack on the Russian fleet?

Some pieces seem to be missing in this story.

On Fri, 08 Sep 2023 20:46:38 +0100, The Happy Hippy wrote:

> On Fri, 08 Sep 2023 19:08:42 GMT TWP <ngspammersad@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> > If Kiev needs help with that they should talk to NATO, not Musk.
>> >
>> >
>> That's what I think. It's not for Must to force the US's hand.
>
> The fascists in Kiev believe everyone must do whatever they want them to
> do.
>
> It's the standard play of with us or against us, demonisation and attack
> if you dissent. Whatever anyone gives them it's never enough, they will
> always demand more.
>
> Ben Wallace got attacked for simply saying we weren't Amazon, couldn't
> simply hand over weapons on demand, and wouldn't destroy Britain in the
> process. The fascists said we should and must.
>
> Like all fascists they have no shame, no sense of subtlety or diplomacy,
> no gratitude. They are supremacists who simply believe they have some
> god-given entitlement to have whatever they want with everyone obliged
> to give it to them.
>
> But we designated them the Good Guys so we have to suck it up, agree
> with them.
>

I've never thought we should help because they're good guys. I'm
concerned by the consequences that might come of allowing Russia to just
decide that they now own Ukraine for whatever justification they've
given. There are obviously consequences to assisting Ukraine too and we
have to make sure NATO stays in the eye of the storm.

> If we didn't, we might have to concede Putin does indeed have a point.
>

Putin has dug himself a hole he's not going to easily get out of. As well
as the invasion having so far mostly failed costing tens of thousands of
lives and prompting many Russian men to get out of the country before they
get called up, NATO has expanded along even more of Russia's border and
Russia has become isolated again which is going to cut it off from a lot
of trade and progress in the world for an indeterminate period. Whatever
Putin might have been right about he's been wrong in too many other areas
to come out even. Even if NATO hadn't assisted Ukraine and had just let
Russia capture Ukraine, Russia would still have likely been cut off from
the world and NATO would have expanded out of fear of a resurgence of
Russian expansionism - and you couldn't say it was all a lie when they'd
just expanded! To that extent Putin put Russia on a losing path from the
moment he invaded Ukraine. He should have come up with a better plan.

> I am surprised there hasn't been more of a backlash to Musk being
> accused of "evil". I guess most are too afraid of the fascists and their
> mob turning on them as well.
>
> No one's going to say "but she's not a witch" when it means a visit to
> the pyre as well. It's how fascists roll; with us or against us.

On Fri, 08 Sep 2023 18:45:37 -0400, JeSSe wrote:

> TWP wrote:
>> https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-russia-war-latest-drone-romania-
defence-
>> minister-12541713 (this page will expire old material as it gets
>> updated)
>>
>>
>> Musk admits thwarting major Ukrainian attack
>>
>> Back now to perhaps the biggest story surrounding the conflict in
>> Ukraine this morning, and the story we reported a little earlier that
>> SpaceX owner Elon Musk instructed his engineers to turn off his
>> company's Starlink satellite to thwart a stealth Ukrainian attack on
>> the Russian naval fleet.
>>
>> The billionaire, for his part, responded to the claims overnight.
>>
>> Replying to a post on Twitter that summarises the story - headed "ELON
>> PREVENTS NUCLEAR WAR?" - Musk said: "The Starlink regions in question
>> were not activated. SpaceX did not deactivate anything."
>>
>> However, he went on to claim that although he did not order engineers
>> to turn off the satellite system, he did refuse Ukrainian pleas to turn
>> it on.
>>
>> "There was an emergency request from government authorities to activate
>> Starlink all the way to Sevastopol," he said.
>>
>> "The obvious intent being to sink most of the Russian fleet at anchor.
>> If I had agreed to their request, then SpaceX would be explicitly
>> complicit in a major act of war and conflict escalation."
>>
>> This tacit admission that he did effectively prevent Kyiv dealing a
>> significant blow against a country it was invaded by more than 18
>> months ago has predictably prompted a widespread and angry response.
>>
>> Many claim it offers further evidence of his apparent willingness to
>> hinder Ukraine's efforts to defeat Russia - which we'll cover in more
>> detail in a separate post shortly.
>>
>>
>> =========================
>>
>>
>> Kyiv rages at Musk - blaming him for children being murdered and
>> 'committing evil'
>>
>> As mentioned previously, the news that Elon Musk decided to obstruct a
>> major Ukrainian attack on Russia's naval fleet has triggered a largely
>> furious response.
>>
>> Perhaps the most strident criticism of the Tesla co-founder overnight
>> has come from Kyiv itself, with a senior adviser to Ukrainian president
>> Volodymyr Zelenskyy issuing a strongly worded statement - effectively
>> blaming him for the killing of children.
>>
>> "Sometimes a mistake is much more than just a mistake," Mykhailo
>> Podolyak said on Twitter.
>>
>> "By not allowing Ukrainian drones to destroy part of the Russian
>> military (!) fleet via Starlink interference, @elonmusk allowed this
>> fleet to fire Kalibr missiles at Ukrainian cities.
>>
>> "As a result, civilians, children are being killed. This is the price
>> of a cocktail of ignorance and big ego.
>>
>> "However, the question still remains: why do some people so desperately
>> want to defend war criminals and their desire to commit murder? And do
>> they now realise that they are committing evil and encouraging evil?"
>>
>> As has been noted by some commentator, this represents a marked
>> departure in Kyiv's approach to Musk - who they had previously been
>> seemingly keen not to alienate.
>>
>> The latest developments certainly do little to dispel anger towards
>> Musk in the wake of a study last week from the European Commission that
>> found Twitter under his ownership - particularly through the
>> "dismantling of its safety standards" - had played a significant role
>> in disseminating Russian propaganda about the Ukraine war.
>>
>> =========================
>>
>> He's not the first to be accused of being in with Putin.
>>
>> Hmmm.... "In with Putin"... I should get shirts printed...
>>
>>
>>
> Musk has obviously got a target on his back for taking away the main
> leftist propaganda platform, spilling their dirty little secrets and
> hiring too many Americans - Stands to reason that the corrupt and
> beholden Ukrainians would fall straight in line with the corrupt and
> compromised Bolsheviks.
>
> I wonder what they'd think if he pulled the plug completely ?

Commentator Styx notes the close timing between Musk's troubles with the
ADL and the Starlink story

https://youtu.be/HUUpEQfZeLw?t=1394

On Sat, 09 Sep 2023 03:24:44 GMT
TWP <ngspammersad@yahoo.com> wrote:

> How did Musk know what the plan was? Someone must have told him.
> Why would Ukraine set up a conflict of interest by telling him it was
> an attack on the Russian fleet?
>
> Some pieces seem to be missing in this story.

It seems more confusing than it probably is because the biography claims that Musk 'turned off the internet' which would beg the questions above.

What actually appears to have happened is that Kiev decided it had a good chance of sinking the Russian fleet in Sevastopol, located at the southwestern tip of Crimea, using remote sea-borne drones commanded by Starlink.

Sounds like a plan, but Starlink coverage doesn't extend that far, doesn't cover Crimea.

So Kiev had to contact Musk to ask him to extend coverage and Musk, not surprisingly, asked why. They presumably told him, thinking he'd understand and would play his part in helping to sink the Russian fleet.

Then there are a number of possibilities -

He decided "no", it would be an attack he didn't want Starlink to be involved in.

He said "bear with me", phoned up Biden or NATO and asked, "what do you guys think?" and they said "no, don't do it", so he didn't.

Or, he phoned up his pal Putin, spilled the beans, and was told, "if they hit the Russian fleet, Kiev is getting a nuking". He might have been told "don't" or Russia might have considered it an opportunity if they tried; "bring it on".

Or he called Putin, then called Biden or NATO, told them what Russia had said, and they then said "don't".

We don't know if he did talk to Russia, what the truth is about knowing the potential nuclear consequences, but, however that played-out, it seems he let Kiev know, "sorry guys, can't do that".

On Sat, 09 Sep 2023 04:19:15 GMT
TWP <ngspammersad@yahoo.com> wrote:

> To that extent Putin put Russia on a losing path from the
> moment he invaded Ukraine. He should have come up with a better plan.

There was no better plan, Biden forced his hand. Putin could either let NATO expand into Ukraine where it would become an existential threat to Russia, or he could invade, protect east Ukrainians from the excesses of Kiev and secure himself a DMZ in Ukraine or the areas he then controlled. It would at least move the frontline away from Russia's border.

I am sure Putin knew he was between a rock and a hard place, that Biden, or rather warmongering neo-con Nuland, had primed a brilliant trap. The only chance of a win was to invade, so he had to walk into it.

On Fri, 8 Sep 2023 18:45:37 -0400
JeSSe <zo@so.org> wrote:

> Musk has obviously got a target on his back for taking away the main
> leftist propaganda platform, spilling their dirty little secrets and
> hiring too many Americans - Stands to reason that the corrupt and
> beholden Ukrainians would fall straight in line with the corrupt and
> compromised Bolsheviks.

Another fanciful conspiracy theory straight from the pages of QAnon.

It doesn't make any sense, doesn't stand up to scrutiny, any kind of critical thought or comprehension. It's like "covid was unleashed by China so Trump would lose the election". There's no logic to it, no credible correlation between action and supposed consequences, no plausible explanation why China would consider that a plan.

It's just demonising made-up shit and bullshit.

On Sat, 09 Sep 2023 04:31:10 GMT
TWP <ngspammersad@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Commentator Styx notes the close timing between Musk's troubles with
> the ADL and the Starlink story

But we only know about the Starlink issue because a biographer's book made the claim. Unless someone can produce evidence that the release of the book was held back until it could be be weaponised I'm going to call bullshit on that.

> https://youtu.be/HUUpEQfZeLw?t=1394

I have always had my doubts about that guy but this proves conclusively he is more than misguided and just another stupid and gullible American, that he is in fact a propagandist.

It's worth noting the claims came out on the anniversary of Liz Truss killing HM Queen with a handshake. Coincidence ? I don't think so.

That's the kind of idiocy you are embracing.

https://youtu.be/hr3QOsoLmj4?t=1617
Scott Adams
"It could have been Russia's Pearl Harbor - how did we respond?"

On Sat, 09 Sep 2023 12:06:33 GMT
TWP <ngspammersad@yahoo.com> wrote:

> https://youtu.be/hr3QOsoLmj4?t=1617
> Scott Adams
> "It could have been Russia's Pearl Harbor - how did we respond?"

It could have been. But we are assuming it would have succeeded. And that it succeeded well enough that Russia gained its pretext to lob a nuke at Kiev.

I do think Kiev's complaint that Musk's refusal meant innocent people died can be countered by asking how many innocent people would have died if it had gone ahead, if it had succeeded.

But the fascists in Kiev don't care how many of their own they kill. They'd have simply used the dead as leverage on the west to kick-start World War III, which is what they are angling for.

In fact the more dead the better from their perspective. It's 'any price is worth paying' mentality, 'the ends justifies the means'.

It's why they don't worry about shelling Zaporizhzhia and provoking a nuclear disaster, blowing up dams and flooding the country, killing their own citizens.