https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-66888101

"A missile has hit the headquarters of Russia's Black Sea navy in Crimea,
a local Moscow-appointed official says

Videos on social media show smoke billowing from the building - we are
working to verify images as they emerge"

---------------

That's a paddlin'....

On Fri, 22 Sep 2023 11:52:57 GMT
TWP <ngspammersad@yahoo.com> wrote:

> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-66888101
>
> "A missile has hit the headquarters of Russia's Black Sea navy in
> Crimea, a local Moscow-appointed official says

<quote>

Ukraine used western supplied missiles in its strike on the headquarters of Russia’s Black Sea Naval fleet in occupied Crimea.

A source at the Ukrainian Air Force told that BBC Storm Shadow – also known as Scalp – cruise missiles were launched.

Last week, they used the same models in an attack on a military base in Crimea which damaged a Russian submarine and landing ship.

</quote>

It's only a matter of time before Russia decides we have carried out an act of war against Russia and that entitles them to retaliate.

Maybe they will apply NATO's 'all for one and one for all' doctrine, take it as an act of war by NATO which entitles them to retaliate against any NATO member.

This is exactly why America didn't want to supply Ukrainian fascists with this capability, why they are probably well pissed that we decided we would.

I suspect it's going to be just like our War on Muslims, we'll all be whooping and cheering at the destruction and slaughter, until we have to face the consequences of retaliation.

On Fri, 22 Sep 2023 15:11:52 +0100, The Happy Hippy wrote:

> On Fri, 22 Sep 2023 11:52:57 GMT TWP <ngspammersad@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-66888101
>>
>> "A missile has hit the headquarters of Russia's Black Sea navy in
>> Crimea, a local Moscow-appointed official says
>
> <quote>
>
> Ukraine used western supplied missiles in its strike on the headquarters
> of Russia’s Black Sea Naval fleet in occupied Crimea.
>
> A source at the Ukrainian Air Force told that BBC Storm Shadow – also
> known as Scalp – cruise missiles were launched.
>
> Last week, they used the same models in an attack on a military base in
> Crimea which damaged a Russian submarine and landing ship.
>
> </quote>
>
> It's only a matter of time before Russia decides we have carried out an
> act of war against Russia and that entitles them to retaliate.
>
> Maybe they will apply NATO's 'all for one and one for all' doctrine,
> take it as an act of war by NATO which entitles them to retaliate
> against any NATO member.
>
> This is exactly why America didn't want to supply Ukrainian fascists
> with this capability, why they are probably well pissed that we decided
> we would.
>
> I suspect it's going to be just like our War on Muslims, we'll all be
> whooping and cheering at the destruction and slaughter, until we have to
> face the consequences of retaliation.

I think this is as far as they'll let us go without something snaps.

TWP wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Sep 2023 15:11:52 +0100, The Happy Hippy wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 22 Sep 2023 11:52:57 GMT TWP <ngspammersad@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-66888101
>>>
>>> "A missile has hit the headquarters of Russia's Black Sea navy in
>>> Crimea, a local Moscow-appointed official says
>>
>> <quote>
>>
>> Ukraine used western supplied missiles in its strike on the headquarters
>> of Russia’s Black Sea Naval fleet in occupied Crimea.
>>
>> A source at the Ukrainian Air Force told that BBC Storm Shadow – also
>> known as Scalp – cruise missiles were launched.
>>
>> Last week, they used the same models in an attack on a military base in
>> Crimea which damaged a Russian submarine and landing ship.
>>
>> </quote>
>>
>> It's only a matter of time before Russia decides we have carried out an
>> act of war against Russia and that entitles them to retaliate.
>>
>> Maybe they will apply NATO's 'all for one and one for all' doctrine,
>> take it as an act of war by NATO which entitles them to retaliate
>> against any NATO member.
>>
>> This is exactly why America didn't want to supply Ukrainian fascists
>> with this capability, why they are probably well pissed that we decided
>> we would.
>>
>> I suspect it's going to be just like our War on Muslims, we'll all be
>> whooping and cheering at the destruction and slaughter, until we have to
>> face the consequences of retaliation.
>
>
> I think this is as far as they'll let us go without something snaps.
>
>

I guess the fudging point is what constitutes "long range" ?

190 miles to my mind is intermediate, not long.

If, or you can almost say when, they are provided with missiles with the
range to hit Moscow, then we would see some sparks fly.

I think Putin will have to put up with attacks on Crimea with western
weapons, since no one recognizes his delirious claim that it is Russian
territory.

Biden agrees to send long-range missiles to Ukraine

But administration officials still insist that ATACMS won’t be a magic
bullet.

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/09/22/biden-agrees-to-send-long-range-missiles-to-ukraine-00117667

--
Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for
light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.

On Fri, 22 Sep 2023 19:31:16 GMT
TWP <ngspammersad@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 22 Sep 2023 15:11:52 +0100, The Happy Hippy wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 22 Sep 2023 11:52:57 GMT TWP <ngspammersad@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-66888101
> >>
> >> "A missile has hit the headquarters of Russia's Black Sea navy in
> >> Crimea, a local Moscow-appointed official says
> >
> > <quote>
> >
> > Ukraine used western supplied missiles in its strike on the
> > headquarters of Russia’s Black Sea Naval fleet in occupied Crimea.
> >
> > A source at the Ukrainian Air Force told that BBC Storm Shadow –
> > also known as Scalp – cruise missiles were launched.
> >
> > Last week, they used the same models in an attack on a military
> > base in Crimea which damaged a Russian submarine and landing ship.
> >
> > </quote>
> >
> > It's only a matter of time before Russia decides we have carried
> > out an act of war against Russia and that entitles them to
> > retaliate.
> >
> > Maybe they will apply NATO's 'all for one and one for all' doctrine,
> > take it as an act of war by NATO which entitles them to retaliate
> > against any NATO member.
> >
> > This is exactly why America didn't want to supply Ukrainian fascists
> > with this capability, why they are probably well pissed that we
> > decided we would.
> >
> > I suspect it's going to be just like our War on Muslims, we'll all
> > be whooping and cheering at the destruction and slaughter, until we
> > have to face the consequences of retaliation.
>
>
> I think this is as far as they'll let us go without something snaps.

I think we've already over-stepped the line.

People in Russia will be accusing Putin of being weak if he allows what they see as offensive attacks on Russian land without response.

Biden has now promised ATACMS long-range missiles which the hawks in the west are cheering as a game changer, key to defeating Russia. And, along with providing an air force, depleted uranium munitions, cluster bombs, and all the rest, might well be.

It has clearly become a NATO War on Russia using Ukrainians as mercenaries.

Crimea is a red line for Russia. We know that. It is why we accepted Russia holding onto Crimea after we pulled Ukraine out of Russia's sphere of influence in 2014. If we hadn't that would have been the start of World War III and we knew it, chose to avoid it, accepted Crimea was Russian.

Now Biden and Sunak have got it into their heads that we can take Crimea from Russia without starting World War III, or not caring if they do.

Either Putin is going to allow the greatest humiliation Russia has ever suffered, and the consequences of letting Russia be humiliated, or he won't.

I wouldn't bet money on Putin accepting the west has won, Russia being humiliated.

And that leaves him with just one option. And then it's just a matter of how far he will go.

Unfortunately, 'he can't win, we'll defeat him no matter what he does', does make 'going large' Putin's best move, delivering a short-sharp shock of using a tactical nuke. If he's going to lose anyway he might as well go out with a bang, inflict as much damage on his enemy as he can. That denies us the win in making it a loss for us. We'd do the same in his boots.

Putin's adviser will be urging him to follow the science. They will accept nuclear Armageddon is unfortunate, but it will deny America and the west the win they desire. And that's the best they can hope for.

We'd best start praying that Putin is neither a ruthless strategist nor a mad mullah, won't do anything to hold onto power. We have to hope he is a spineless chicken who will allow Russia to be humiliated, that he'll sell the Russian Empire and Russian peoples down the river.

I think it's time to get Rapture Ready.

On Fri, 22 Sep 2023 19:22:45 -0400
JeSSe <zo@so.org> wrote:

> I think Putin will have to put up with attacks on Crimea with western
> weapons, since no one recognizes his delirious claim that it is
> Russian territory.

The west has since 2014.

Maybe not officially but it was a de facto acceptance.